We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - JoJo Siwa 2 Hours Before Celebrity Big Brother EXCLUSIVE: I Wasn’t Emotionally Abused On Dance Moms - "I’m Not Going To Say Who It Was!”

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Starting point is 00:01:20 So first is, this is wild that you're here. Yeah. So why is this your first stop? My partner was like, you're doing a podcast before you go into the house. That's the last thing you're doing before. And I was like, yeah, why not? Why not? Why not?

Starting point is 00:01:34 What if I got to lose? There's a lot of people who cannot wait to see you in the house. And I think part of it is they want to see like who you don't see. Exactly. Yeah. So is there anything that you are scared about or your fear for? No, I'm not really scared of anything. I am very excited.

Starting point is 00:01:54 I'm very curious. I've always been an open book. But I think with being an open book, I've always been the one deciding what goes out when. You know what I mean? and this, you know, I'm going to have no clue what's going out. I'm going to just be living. You're going to get to see the side of me that my friends, my family, people that are coming to my life that they get to see.

Starting point is 00:02:13 Yes. Where it's like, it still is me, right? Like, I still have that, like, deep sense of humor. I still have that, like, quick, funny wit to me. I still am just an entertaining soul. Like, I love to dance around and bop around and make people laugh and crack jokes. But, you know, I'm not this, like, crazy wild, like, always at 10.

Starting point is 00:02:34 I'm actually a really big chiller. Yeah, like you're human. Yeah, I think people really forget that. Yeah, I agree with you. I think there's this notion that you're just like on 10 all the time. Yeah. You're kind of this entertaining robot. Yeah. And you're

Starting point is 00:02:50 not. And I think that Big Brother is going to you know, I'll see that. So weird because I talk to my partner about this all the time. Like, it's so weird, babe, because if somebody was to ask you, is she really like this? your answer would be yes and no. Right.

Starting point is 00:03:05 Because I am, but I'm almost just like dress different and down a level. You know what I mean? So you don't dress like this all day, every day. Like, yeah, I don't dress like this all the time, and believe it or not. It's so funny. Like literally my Big Brother suitcase is hilarious

Starting point is 00:03:17 because all my like fancy eviction night outfits are like this. Rhinestone crazy out there, full hair makeup, right? The rest of my outfits, I don't think I brought one thing that is from a women's department. Like, everything is from a men's department.

Starting point is 00:03:29 It's gray. It's dark. Wow. It's basketball shorts and T-shirts. Like, I'm very, like, it's so opposite. That's interesting. All right. So now, in the house, though, right?

Starting point is 00:03:40 Yeah. You have, would you say, a strong personality? Yes. Like, I, yes, but not, like, I'm very, I can go either way. I don't know how to explain it. I think I'm the type of person that if I'm asked a question, I'll answer it. if I'm talked to, I'll talk back, but I will ask

Starting point is 00:04:04 somebody questions about themselves, but I'm not like a, like I can be a leader if we need a leader, but I can also, if somebody else has taken a leadership, I can, you know. Yeah, you could be a follower. Do your biggest. And then when it comes crumbling now, and I'll step in. You know what I mean? All right, but so then how do you manage someone who may disagree

Starting point is 00:04:20 with you? Because that will happen. It totally will happen. I think about that a lot. And I think it depends on what, you know, if they disagree that chickens better than steak. Like, why are we fighting about this? Are we seven? You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:04:35 Like, and like, we'll just like laugh it off, right? But I mean, if we're disagreeing on something when it comes to, you know, politics or human rights or something like that, I believe that. Look, I have this saying and it's, it's, would you get me a band-aid? You know, we may disagree, right? You may think this and I may think that. I don't like when people say, like, your opinion's wrong because it's not. It's your opinion. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:04:59 Your belief is wrong. It's not. It's your belief. There's a reason why you believe this. But at the end of the day, no matter what you believe, no matter where you stand on things, would you get me a band-aid? Because I can guarantee if you cut your finger, say you and I don't agree, right? But you cut your finger while we were sitting here on your glass.

Starting point is 00:05:17 First thing I would do is get up and say, does anyone have a band-aid, right? I see. Would you do the same for me? And I think that if somebody disagrees, but they would get me a band-aid, all good. If somebody disagrees, but they wouldn't get me a band-aid, that shows what kind of human you are. Wow, that's profound. Right?

Starting point is 00:05:34 JoJo, you are a philosopher. I should write that. I should write that. Honestly, it's just a book. Would you get me a band-aid? But you know, that truly is profound. It's a very simple concept. It is.

Starting point is 00:05:45 You know what I mean? And unfortunately, in today's world, some people would be like, cut your finger. Right. For a variety of reasons. Yep. Ignorance, arrogance, etc.

Starting point is 00:05:55 Yeah. You know what's interesting about that, is that I believe I know the first person who would get in line to give you a band-aid. And not only do I believe I know that person, but that person has sent you a message. Can I play something for you? Let me see it. Okay, you get ready? Listen to this.

Starting point is 00:06:18 Hey, Jojo. Oh, I know that voice. I go and tell you just exactly how proud I am of you, and I can't wait for the world to see you. on the Big Brother House, but mostly I'm just really super proud of the woman you've become for everything that you stand for. I can't wait for everything that's coming for you. I love you no matter what. And picture catcher for life. And I just, I'm just so proud of you. Oh. So pitch or catcher for life. Who's that? Pitcher catcher. My mom and I, she's, I love someone. That's your mom. That's my mom, Jess. So we, we have this saying that,

Starting point is 00:06:58 We don't need a baseball. You guys don't have baseball over here, so it didn't really make that much sense. But on a baseball team, you have a lot of positions. There's a lot of players on a baseball team. You have your pitcher and your catcher, but then you have first base, second base, short stop, third base. Then you have right field, center, right, left field, left center. Then you have, you know, other players on the team that aren't on the field at the same time.

Starting point is 00:07:19 So there's a lot of players. My mom and I, though, always say that we are a team with two. We are a pitcher and a catcher. And we don't need the whole field because, you know, she only throws fastballs and I will catch every single one and no one can hit off of her. Wow. And vice versa. And then when it's our turn to bat, we only hit home runs.

Starting point is 00:07:38 So we know we can just keep rotating bats, you know what I mean? Yes. And it's just like a little inside joke and it's just to say like no matter what, like I got you. You know what I mean? Like if no one else is there for you, meaning you have no other teammates, I got you. You know what I mean? And she really does. She's a good one.

Starting point is 00:07:56 Would you say that your mother is your best friend? Yeah, she really is. She, she's just, like, nobody has my back like she does, you know what I mean? Nobody's also afraid to check me in the way she does, you know what I mean, when I need it. She's a good one. She's a really good one. Can we talk about you growing up with your mother, with your father? So you were born in Omaha.

Starting point is 00:08:22 Omaha, Nebraska. Omaha, Nebraska. Dead son of America. Got the Midwest. Exactly. I was about to put on my midwest, too. Yeah. So how would you describe Omaha to someone who's never been there?

Starting point is 00:08:35 Oh, man. I mean, any steak or piece of corn that you eat comes from there. It's a lot of farms, a lot of cornfields. If you think about, like, the South and, like, that vibe, right? Yes. And a lot of people know the South in America, where it's like good old Christian values, right? And you have the South. Then you have L.A. that's like, we hate everyone.

Starting point is 00:08:57 We're doing our own thing. We're going to become our own country. day, see y'all, you know what I mean? You have California. Yes. Nebraska's somewhere in the middle. It's a very beautiful place. How did growing up in that environment, how do you think that impacted who you've become today? I think that I really have just beautiful people around me from a very young age. Because I moved away from Nebraska permanently when I was like 11.

Starting point is 00:09:20 And so that's like my childhood. That is. True childhood. And it is really started. It started off solid. Solid. So who was around you? Who would you say loved you when you were there, the first 11 years? Ooh, I mean, obviously my family, right? Friend-wise, I had really good friends growing up. I had a lot of best friends.

Starting point is 00:09:44 I was very always close with my dance teachers, and I think they really can shape you as a kid. And, like, I used to love and look up to them and, like, to drive with them. So I have a piano teacher, and I loved her. I used to love myself. coach. Oh my God, I love my softball coach. My kindergarten teacher, she was amazing.

Starting point is 00:10:07 I only went to kindergarten in third grade, so I had two teachers, and they were both beautiful. Mrs. Gets and Mrs. Lloyd, I love them. You remember their names? Of course. I could never forget them. Yeah. I remember Mrs. Gets came to my, I think it was my brother's graduation, and

Starting point is 00:10:24 it's crazy. She's like, it's just crazy how that shapes you like that. It is. I think this is why we don't, you know, on a whole, we don't value our teachers. We don't respect, you know, especially through pay, et cetera, because they do. It's crazy. I remember certain teacher names, you know, as I go back. So I'm with you on this. Oh, yeah. But you said that you were only, it was only kindergarten and third grade. So you were homeschooled. So, yeah, I was super independent. I worked by myself. I loved it. It met more time for dance, which was awesome. So then I hit the age of third grade. And for the last semester, my family was like, do you want to try school again? And we had a school in our neighborhood. This was a public school. And so there was a little more, you know, freedom with it.

Starting point is 00:11:10 I was like, yeah, sure. So they put me in school. And I hated it. Not the way that, like, kids hate school. I hated it in the sense that I was bored. It was too easy. It was the friends were bullies. Like, it was a very different way.

Starting point is 00:11:26 I was like, it wasn't that I didn't want to do school. it's that I liked being homeschooled better. And my family was like, all good, finished the year, and then we'll reassess. And they tell me now that I'm a certain age, but they didn't tell me this back then, but they really wanted me to go to make sure I was still on track.

Starting point is 00:11:40 And then in fifth grade is when I went to my first TV show. So it ended up just working out. By third grade, you are how old? How would it be eight? I think I was eight. So you're dancing a lot. Yeah. And your mother owned a dance school.

Starting point is 00:11:55 Yeah. Okay. So this is interesting. So you're about Jesselin. Yeah. All right. So Jesselin, right. But you call her a Jess.

Starting point is 00:12:01 Yeah. Anything. Either way is cool. All right. So was she a dancer? She was. She was a better teacher than she was dancer. Oh,

Starting point is 00:12:08 okay. But yeah, she was a dancer growing up. She used to put on recitals in her neighborhood. She teach all the neighborhood kids how to dance. Like she was good, but she was a really good dance teacher. Ah, okay. Yeah. She had one of like the best studios in Nebraska prior to me being born.

Starting point is 00:12:23 Oh, interesting. Yeah. And so your father is a professional. He's not. He's a chiropractic. Chiropractor. Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 00:12:29 And then your older brother. Yeah. Is picture perfect the way you would say normal? He is that boy. Yeah. Now he's an indoor skydiving instructor. He's an icon. Winning.

Starting point is 00:12:43 Winning in life. Yeah. It's beautiful. So with your mother, though, being the dance instructor, right? Clearly, that's how you fall into dancing, right? Yeah. And so if you could think back to when you started dancing, what was it about dance? What was it about dance that made you love it so?

Starting point is 00:12:59 It's interesting because when I was really little, I loved it. I loved it when I was like two, three, and four, and five. I really loved it. And I think it was just because I was always there. What kid doesn't want to be around their mom when they're little? You know what I mean? I love the people. And then all of a sudden I started to get really good.

Starting point is 00:13:18 And then all of a sudden I didn't like it as much. My mom would take me to privates and she'd say, honey, you're going to do a ballet private today. And I would say, you can take me, but I'm not going to try. try or you can take me but I'm not going to learn anything it's stupid and my mom just was persistent and she was like all good because I would come out and I would like it you know what I mean it wasn't like no I don't want to go I hate it it was like you can take me but I'm not going to try like okay sit down you're six um but like we stuck with it and then yeah I I fell back in love with it then up again

Starting point is 00:13:49 once I was like nine 10 and then when I was 11 is when I went to dance moms and that's kind of when dance kind of became my job. And in my free time, I didn't want to dance. Interesting. You know what I mean? Because I was dancing when I had to. And then in my free time, normally as a kid, it's like, oh, my free time, I want to dance. But then all of a sudden, in my free time, I was getting free time from dance.

Starting point is 00:14:13 So I didn't want to dance anymore. Wow. Okay. So how does dance moms come about? Yeah. So dance moms, there was a show before dance moms called Abby's Ultimate Dance Competition. And that, to be on, it was like a thing on TV. If you want to be a part of Abby's ultimate dance competition, submit here.

Starting point is 00:14:29 And my mom did. And all of a sudden, I'm nine years old, and it's happening. And it's a really big deal to be on that show. And that show ended. And the dance mom's producers called. And they had one of the girls had left the show, Chloe, and they needed somebody to come in and replace her. And her mom and kind of just fill that void.

Starting point is 00:14:47 And they called, and they were like, we just want to bring you in for a week, just come have fun, whatever. So I got that call on Friday, and I had to be there on Monday. Okay. And was it in L.A.? That at the time was in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh. Yeah, so East Coast.

Starting point is 00:15:01 Anyways, so we got to Pittsburgh, we're there for a week, and they were like, would you want to stay a second week? Obviously, yeah. And there was anything, do you want to stay a third week? Of course. And then it was at the point, like, okay, how long are we going to be here for? And it was on a, like, just kind of keep waiting. Yes.

Starting point is 00:15:18 And then eventually it just evolved into two and a half years of my life. Wow, look at that. Isn't that crazy? Look at that. Crazy. But you know what, though, I always say. nothing just happens. Nothing.

Starting point is 00:15:28 Right? So do you believe that? Nothing just happens. I think everything happens for a reason. I'm with you. But I love not knowing the reason. Okay.

Starting point is 00:15:34 I love not knowing the reason. But now when you look back, what do you think the reason was for you being so successful early? You know, so you are, by the time you're... To piss 21-year-old me off? Because I look back and I'm like, damn, how did 11-year-old me do it?

Starting point is 00:15:51 Yeah, but how were you doing? Because I went back for this. This shows you my love. of research. No, you did your research. I had never seen dance moms. Yeah. Okay. I went back and watched when you got on. I have a thought as to why, but when you think back to you then on dance moms, what was it about you and your mother that made you so successful on that show? Um, honestly, I think that once I was told I was different and once I was told I didn't look like everyone else and once I was told I didn't dance like everyone else.

Starting point is 00:16:26 I didn't conform to that and say, oh, I'll change. I said, okay, all good when we would show up to rehearsals. I didn't mind that I didn't look like everyone else. You know, I liked that I was having fun because I always knew that it wasn't about me because if I am so different and so out there and so weird, the little kid at home who's just a little bit different will feel okay. But at 11, did you know that? Did you feel that?

Starting point is 00:16:57 I felt that I was different and that I didn't care that I was different, but I didn't realize how beautiful it was at the time. Right. I didn't know that. So I'm completely with you. Yeah. Right? When I was watching it, I was thinking to myself, here's someone who is, and I love to get your opinion too, is, you know, you were constantly being told things. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:17:19 You were being critiqued. Yep. I think there was name calling happening. Always. You were being ostracized. Yeah. And what you did is something that I rarely see even adults do, is that you said, yep, all these things that you're saying is what makes me me.

Starting point is 00:17:35 Yeah. It's what makes me extraordinary. And I'm not the only one that's like this. You know what I mean? Like you and I, right? We come from different walks of life. We will have something in common. And one of those things in common will be one of those things that makes us different.

Starting point is 00:17:51 from if there was a third person in the room. You know what I mean? And so that makes us both different. But if only you and that third person were in the room, you would be just different. Yes. You know what I mean? And so there's always something different about people,

Starting point is 00:18:03 welcome to being a person, you know what I mean? But at 11, though, going back to this, is that how do you come up with that? Because ultimately what that is, is that self-esteem. Yeah. Because when you have a low self-esteem.

Starting point is 00:18:16 I look back all the time on my confidence, being like, how'd she have it? Yeah, but even, Your esteem, right? Because ultimately that self-esteem is that the lower your self-esteem, the more you need, the validation of others. Yeah. You at 11 didn't need the validation. Yeah, no.

Starting point is 00:18:32 You were like, this is me. Oh, don't worry, though. I'm making up for it now. I need validation now like crazy sometimes. Well, we'll get to that. Yeah. But then I feel like, so do you feel like you didn't need the validation? And if so, how did you do it?

Starting point is 00:18:45 How did you get to that point? It's interesting. I, I've kind of always been this. I've never needed people's validation. I've needed my person's validation. And at that time, it was my mom. My mom was upset with me. I knew that I was doing something wrong.

Starting point is 00:19:02 I knew that I wasn't being nice or I wasn't looking put together or I wasn't dancing good. I knew that because she was so honest with me. You know, if I wasn't dancing good, she would tell me and I'd watch a video and I'd be like, oh yeah, it wasn't good. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:19:14 But if she told me I was dancing good, I knew she wasn't lying to me. You know what I mean? If she, and granted, yeah, she's my mom. I probably looked crazy some days wearing three hair bows. And she's like, yep, honey, you look beautiful. You know what I mean? But to me, that's whose opinion I needed and valued.

Starting point is 00:19:30 And so whatever anybody else said, I was like, no, but my mom thinks I look cool. My mom thinks I look cool. You know what I mean? And that's something that I struggle with now that I'm older, you know, not needing people's approval. Because I still don't need the world, but I do still look to my mom and my partner. And I do you guys like my outfit. What do you think? Should I do that?

Starting point is 00:19:48 You know, my partner sometimes will say to me, like, baby, you don't need my approval. You don't need to wear an outfit if I like it or if I don't like it, right? You wear the outfit that you like. And because you like it, I like you, and I will like it. And to me, I'm like, oh, that's really sweet, but do you like my outfit? You know what I mean? Like, it's a very hard thing for me to kind of get through now that I'm older. So your mom, and I could even see that in the show.

Starting point is 00:20:11 Yeah. Is that she was your only audience, you know? And I think that there's so much love there because she was your only audience. audience and then you were constantly getting the barrage of everyone else. Yeah. So one question that always comes up, I'd love for you just to address this, is that some people say, okay, you were being emotionally abused. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:34 What's your take on what was happening to you during dance songs? It's interesting because there's a lot of different opinions on this. The way that I was as a child and the way that I was taught from a very young age by other dance teachers by my mom. I, on dance moms, I can say with full confidence, I was not emotionally abused for the way I was as a kid and the way I took

Starting point is 00:20:58 criticism. And for the way I would hear what I was being told and I would either, A, let it go in one year and out the other because I would know, A, we're filming a TV show, B, Abby, you know, just came out of this heated argument with producers that no one's going to see and she's taking

Starting point is 00:21:14 it out on me. All good. You know what I mean? Sure, I can be the punching bag for 20 minutes. or, you know, or something would affect me. I'd reflect on it and be like, yeah, okay, that sucked, but what's good in this situation? You know what I mean? What can I learn from this? And that's the way I was as a kid.

Starting point is 00:21:29 Now, not everybody's like that. And a lot of people have different sensitivities. A lot of people get through things differently. And that's something that I had zero sympathy towards five years ago. And I got checked. I got checked online and people, you know, said to me like, hey you know everyone's experience was different and I was like huh you're actually so right you're so right and dance films was a very tough environment it was tough it was sink or swim um

Starting point is 00:22:00 it was a it was a very wild not normal it's such a unique environment that you cannot recreate but you have to remember there was 60 hours of filming a week that got edited down to 42 minutes. Right. I don't know. I think for me and the way I was as a kid, I would,

Starting point is 00:22:22 I would, I would say I've, I've, I've been through some shit, but I would say I, maybe, maybe people have abused their power over me

Starting point is 00:22:30 and I've been through, I've been through my fair share of it. Right. But I, I have never, I've never, I've been a very, very lucky case

Starting point is 00:22:37 because I would say I've never been abused. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. Which, I'm lucky, because that's not the case

Starting point is 00:22:43 for most people that went through dance moms. That is not the case. And it's, it's fair. It is very fair. I understand where they're coming from. I understand how.

Starting point is 00:22:51 Also, they were yelled at differently, you know, whether that be by producers or by Abby. They were treated differently. But for me, I don't know. I always just... When you reflect, you don't even, you don't see it as emotional abuse. And I hear that.

Starting point is 00:23:06 I think, you know, for me, when I watched it. Yeah. Because remember, I had not watched it during that time. So I didn't go through the whole tornado, the media tornado that was happening. For me, what was... uncomfortable was that I could see how confident you were. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:23:22 There were certain moments where I saw you tear up. Yep. That got to me. Yep. But then seeing the power dynamic, the fact that this was an instructor or a teacher, talking down to a little, to a child. That's the part that made me feel. It makes you uncomfortable.

Starting point is 00:23:39 Yes. Of course. Absolutely. And it's interesting because dance moms puts that on TV. Think about a football coach. how tough they are on their, if you are in high school football, you are running until you throw up.

Starting point is 00:23:53 You're getting yelled at when you don't do. You're being punished for workout. You know what I mean? Like that's, it's tough to, and dance as an art and a sport. And I don't just, I don't want to sound like I'm justifying,

Starting point is 00:24:05 you know, yelling at children because it's not cool. You know what I mean? If I owned a dance studio, that's not how I would run it. You know what I mean? That's not what I would do. I don't think that behavior is cool.

Starting point is 00:24:13 Two things to that. I knew what I was getting myself into. and the confidence drop. You can watch my confidence drop throughout the seasons of dance moms. And it's interesting because watching it, you would think, oh shit, that's because, you know, she was getting yelled at, right?

Starting point is 00:24:30 That's because of Abby, essentially, to put it quite frankly. But that confidence drop was by the people who were on my same level. That was by my friends. That was, you know, due to looking, all putting on the same outfit and saying, oh, JoJo, your hip looks crazy.

Starting point is 00:24:47 oh, you know what I mean? Abby, Abby, I'm actually, I'm not going to give Abby her flowers and say that she never said anything about my body because she did once. And it was about a short and she was like, Jojo shouldn't wear that on stage. She doesn't make her body look good. That was the comment.

Starting point is 00:25:01 And my mom went at her and was like, do not talk about my 11 year old's body. And like, yeah, nobody should. Right. But even like, people don't know this, but like my singing confidence is still a problem to this day. Because when we were, when we were kids, I was told by some of the other girls that I could.

Starting point is 00:25:17 couldn't sing with them because I wasn't a good enough singer. And that still, to this day, I leave every recording session crying, every single one without failure. I won't do singing lessons because it makes me feel like that. Like it's, and so it's interesting. Like you see, right, what was edited and produced. Again, 60 hours. After that camera was off, we stayed at the series, she went in the back room. There was a lot more that happened.

Starting point is 00:25:41 There was the other moms even saying, we need to stop giving the kids junk food snacks. They need to start eating foods and vegetables. And my mom and another mom would be like, the fuck, they're 12. Like, it doesn't matter. Right. You know what I mean? And so it's, it's interesting. I think I don't want to justify Abby's behavior in certain situations because, no.

Starting point is 00:26:01 But I also don't want to put everything on her. On her. What? Fair. You know what I mean? Like, but yeah, no, she has her shit. And we've all talked to her about it now that we're older. Like, you're a bitch sometimes.

Starting point is 00:26:14 She's like, oh, sweetie, you know I love you. And I'm like, yeah, but you were a bitch. Like, you know that. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, what's really hit me now is you saying, talking about these comments with regard to your singing body image. Yeah. Right. Was it style as well?

Starting point is 00:26:31 Yeah. Oh, yeah. All of this. So you distinctly remember this. Yeah. Oh, and I can remember being like, oh, where did you get your outfit? And I would say where I got it and being like, oh. And walking away.

Starting point is 00:26:43 And as a kid, you know, you don't know what that look means. So you're immediately going to be like, oh, you think I look horrible. You think I look ugly. You probably think I look fat. You know what I mean? Which as an 11-year-old is apparently the worst thing you can feel. And it's crazy. That's not something that should be a bad feeling.

Starting point is 00:26:59 You know what I mean? But it's, yeah, no, I remember all those instances. There was this one time. And it was, I don't think I've ever told this story publicly. But it was, I call it the ice cream story. And on Friday nights, we all used to, and I'm not going to say who it was, because it's not worth it. You know, I mean, we were all kids, it doesn't matter.

Starting point is 00:27:19 But we were all chilling in the hotel room. All the moms go out, we would all stay in one hotel room and basically babysit each other. Anyways, at this time, I was lower class that everybody else was. Okay, we'll say it that way. I was not, my family was not struggling, but, you know, the other kids would come with $100 every week and be able to get everyone a treat and whatever.

Starting point is 00:27:40 Right. So then we finally got to a point where we had gotten a few dance moms' paychecks And my mom finally was like, Georgia, like, I can give you some money tonight if you want to treat everybody. And I was like, oh my God, that would be awesome. So she gave me $100 in a cash, $100 bills. My first $100 bills. It's big.

Starting point is 00:27:53 So I'd go into the room and one of the girls was like, do you guys want ice cream? And I was like, yeah, like, let's do it. Like, I got money this time. Like, I want to get it for everybody. And she was like, well, if you want to get the ice cream, you have to come downstairs with me to get it. And I said, my mom told me I can't leave the room. I was 11. You should not leave the room by yourself.

Starting point is 00:28:11 And I was like, but if, like, you want to go get it. because she was like, I'm going to go get it. I was like, take my money and get it for everybody. She said, no, if you don't come, you don't get ice cream. And I said, oh, okay, it's okay. So she went down by herself and got ice cream. And she came back up with six ice creams. And there was seven of us in the room.

Starting point is 00:28:31 And she said, you get one, you get one, you get one, you get one, you get one, you get one. And walked past me and sat down and ate your ice cream. And I'll never forget at the time, Kenzie actually, was like, here, do you should like share with me. And I remember just being like, damn you know what I mean because like I tried I don't know I think that's the that's the shit that shapes me as a kid the stuff Abby said to me that would go one in one ear out the other sure sure but that shit nah that's that's stuff that sticks with you for life you know what I mean yeah you know it's even what I see to this day I always feel like I always want my peers

Starting point is 00:29:05 respect I think too is that and I think this is important is that it's important to be able to identify the emotion and just be able to sit in it and say this is part of my the human experience and when I sit in the emotion I can now better position myself to rebound from it and also learn how that hurt me and do it to no one exactly you know what I mean and I think going into the big brother house like I'm thinking right now like I need to find a friend right away so I don't feel alone but then I'm realizing everyone is thinking that right now we're all leaving our family We're all leaving our pets. Everyone's a little sad, but we're all so excited.

Starting point is 00:29:43 But make sure there's no one left out. If there's someone sitting alone, check and say, hey, like, do you want to be alone right now? Do you want to come chat to us? Because sometimes you need to be alone, right? Especially as an adult. But I think that's so important to, like, include. So when you go back to the end of dance moms, did you feel alone? No.

Starting point is 00:30:02 No. I don't think as a kid I felt alone. I think not, I mean, I had my friends on dance moms. but I also had my mom. I also had my friends back home. I had my dad and my brother. No. All right.

Starting point is 00:30:14 So, all right, good. Yeah. Good. All right. So now, another thing that I saw, which I thought, I was thinking, okay, the branding is so good. Thank you. They're so good.

Starting point is 00:30:24 So was it methodical when you were on dance moms? Did you start to position the bow? No. No. Did your mom position the bow? No. You just loved wearing a bow. That side ponytail and bow has been since I was three years old.

Starting point is 00:30:36 You just loved it. That was my own life. Okay. And it got to a point right before I went to dance moms that I went to a dance convention and I was at my first convention where I like did it wear a side point tail bone. I was like 10 years old. So it was a big deal, right? Like, because most kids don't wear a bow anymore once they age out of like eight years old, right?

Starting point is 00:30:55 But I was nine and I wore the bow on TV for AUDC and then I was charged with the bow, but whatever. You know Tate McCray. Yes. Okay, so Tate McCray was in the dance world. We were the same age at this time. And she was there and looked really cool. And we were the same age.

Starting point is 00:31:07 We were 10. and I was like, she's so cool. Like, I want to be like Tate. Anyways, so I go to the next dance convention and I just like Tate did because, like, she was the cool girl. She came in from Canada, so she would travel down for conventions

Starting point is 00:31:19 that I was, she wasn't at this one. And, you know, I'm now wearing a white bra top and my hair in a high ponytail and I'm different. No-bo? I'm going black. I'm wearing a black leotard and a bun. I'm cool.

Starting point is 00:31:33 That's when I got the call for dance moms. And when I got that call, my mom was like, do you want to be like, Jojo with the Bobo and like yourself or do you want to be cool like Tate? And I was like I want to be Jojo with the Bobo again. And I mean I had a three day period where I

Starting point is 00:31:45 was on Jojo with the Bovo. And so when I went to the dance songs, we had outfits made, we got bows to match. Then it's just who I was, you know what I mean? And then once it sort of became a brand, I liked it more because it was people were accepting me for who I was. Exactly. So did you feel at that time

Starting point is 00:32:01 because once again, you're only what, 11? Yeah. You know, so did you feel you becoming a brand? and the merchandising happened? I didn't feel like I was becoming a brand, but I felt like I was becoming liked. And I felt like people were embracing me for who I was. They were embracing my difference.

Starting point is 00:32:19 And I feel like that kept it going. That made the bow get bigger. The outfits get louder. That made all that. All right, Jojo. I want to show you this. So in the, how old are you right there in that? This was Kids Choice Awards.

Starting point is 00:32:36 I think 20, it looks like 2017. I would have been 13 or 14. Okay, so you're 13 or 14. Yeah. The bow is massive at this point. Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 00:32:49 The bow has already... So you've now already started selling products. Yeah. Okay. Do you know how many bows you've sold? Or there's... I mean, trying to find out right now as you speak. But the last time I heard it was over 90 million.

Starting point is 00:33:06 Over 90 million. Crazy. Yes, over 90 million bows. Crazy. So, so I ordered a bell. Let's see. You got a little big. Joja, I was coming to you.

Starting point is 00:33:18 This was my gripe. Are there different, there must be different sizes of the bow. Oh, yeah, that's a mini bow. This is a mini bow. Oh, yeah. Okay, so I can get the full-size bow. Yeah, the full size is maybe about this big. Okay.

Starting point is 00:33:30 That's like the standard. And then there is mega bows that are about this big. But then the standard is about this big. And then there's like a medium mini that's like that big. and that's like, like, that's like a minute. There is actually one, two, that's smaller than that that we sold for a bit. But that's like, so that boat comes in like a seven-day-a-week pack. So it comes with seven of them.

Starting point is 00:33:49 And there's, like, one for each day. So I have to grow up my hair. Yep. So I can rock it, eat every day. You put it on your vest. Oh, I can do this. Yeah. Yeah, you can do it.

Starting point is 00:33:58 So these bows are still selling to this day. Isn't that crazy? Still banned in schools over here in the UK. The bows are banned. Yeah. Why? So people don't know this, but for a bit, my UK audience was actually my biggest audience. And it was because of the Jojo Bo craze.

Starting point is 00:34:14 So they in schools became super popular. They had to ban them in school because kids were trading them and, like, fixing them all the time, and they got distracting. As they had to ban chadobos. Has the band been lifted? I should find out. For the churjubos. Just find out. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:34:31 Yeah. This is wild. Crazy. This is wild. So that was the first product. The Jojobo. The Jojo Bose. All right.

Starting point is 00:34:38 So this is, you're what, 13 when... The time I was 13 when they became licensed. When they became licensed. Yeah. So can we talk about how you amass this power, right? Because one thing that I think was a genius move that is not talked about. Let's hear it. We need to talk about this.

Starting point is 00:34:54 Give it to me. Is that you were on television. So I think this is like 11, 12. Yeah. But then you start focusing on YouTube. Yeah. Right. That is not talked about enough because.

Starting point is 00:35:07 there's so many child stars that never adapt different platforms, different mediums. It's interesting. I almost gave myself my own TV show because of YouTube. That was my TV show being on YouTube. You know what I mean? And I had a best friend and still have a best friend who

Starting point is 00:35:23 inspired me to do it. And, you know, she said my whole family does it. And she said, it's great. You can make a living off of it. And she said, just try it. You might like it. You might hate it. And I loved it. So that was your friend telling you, you're not talking to any management. That was when I was like 11.

Starting point is 00:35:38 11, okay. Yeah. And you decide, I'm going to give this a try. Yeah. All right. So what becomes your goal? Honestly, my goal at that time was to make a video that did good. I was hungry for it.

Starting point is 00:36:01 There was always something that meant be yourself. That was always the messaging. You for you is beautiful, right? And it's interesting how that so coincides with the LGBTQIA community. And at a very young age, it was that same messaging minus LGBTQIA part, right? Be yourself, believe in yourself. You're awesome for who you are. Every video was in that.

Starting point is 00:36:22 And so I wanted to chase everyone I could, every view I could be as out there as I could to get that message out. Okay. That was always my like. That was the goal. I just, I want people, whether that be for 10 seconds on a TikTok and they're, you know, an older teenager that's. laughing at me. What are you wearing? You look weird. They laugh. They're smiling. They're having fun with it. They're sending it to their friend. Or if that's a four-year-old watching a YouTube video going, I want to be just like Dojo Siwa. Dojo-Zew is so cool. Joe-Jew wears bows. I want to wear

Starting point is 00:36:53 bow and be cool and different. You know what I mean? You inherently as a four-year-old, you don't understand that I'm pushing the message of be yourself, pushing the message of be who you want to be and have fun and live life to the fullest. You don't understand that. But you understand to see you was different. I can be different. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:37:11 That's what... But okay, so I see that, right? But what is challenging me a little bit? Give it to me. I love this. Is the enormous amount of effort and work that you had to contribute towards this.

Starting point is 00:37:23 Yeah. Because I've seen with lots of people, lots of my friends who are in television. Yeah. You know, it's like, I'm just tired. Yeah. You know, you work long days. You were talking about how long dance moms is.

Starting point is 00:37:32 I looked at how many shows you done. You've done so many. I can't even count how many television shows you. you've done. Is that crazy? Like it literally, you've done dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of television shows. You have the merchandising happening. So I think, okay, if you roll out social media and a YouTube situation, most people have teams doing that. Yeah. But it seems to me that you were the one doing this almost to the point where it looked like you became obsessed. Yeah. With it. I, it was my life. It became my, a big part of my education. It was my after school activity.

Starting point is 00:38:06 it was my life as a kid. I loved it. I loved editing. I loved filming. I loved coming up with ideas. I loved being a YouTuber. I loved all my friends that were older than me. And so cool.

Starting point is 00:38:16 They were YouTubers and I wanted to be like them and be a YouTuber. Like it was, it was what it was. And it's interesting because I feel like now, and this is something that I'm struggling with recently, as I look back at that, and I'm like, wow, it was so successful. Right? You look at my childhood and you're like that, that massive, wow, that's crazy. at the time it wasn't like that. At the time, you know, you were fighting for views.

Starting point is 00:38:40 At the time it was, let's make the best thumbnail possible. You know what I mean? There was that hunger and that drive because it wasn't glorified to the way. It was not an instant success. I think a lot of people look back at my life and because it's already been done, they think, oh, instant success. Right. But it was a struggle, you know, it was tough. It was a fight.

Starting point is 00:38:57 There was a lot of work that went into it, but it's what I wanted. I have had people run my social media and I hate it. it doesn't work. We've tried, I've tried multiple different teams because sometimes it's just not the one for you, you know what I mean? And there's some sort of loss of control

Starting point is 00:39:13 that it's my voice and no one else should be speaking on my voice. You know what I mean? And it's, yeah, it's my career, but it's also my life. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, you could see it

Starting point is 00:39:24 where you care about the message that's being placed, right? It's not just about the view. The view is important. Yeah. But the message is equally important The message is so important because it's why the view is there. What does that mean?

Starting point is 00:39:39 Right? What do you want to do with that? Like if you're in this business to make money and get a view, that's going to run out. Because how could you get a million views and now all of a sudden you're getting 10,000? It doesn't make sense. And so if you are only in it to chase that, you're going to run out. And it's going to be awful. But I don't know.

Starting point is 00:39:56 I think a lot of times, too, my youngness was such a blessing because now I'm older. Now I care about that sort of stuff. You know what I mean? I hope you won't mind that we're taking a quick break from this conversation to talk about my show sponsor, Shopify. So many of you who listen to this show every week also run your own small businesses or side hustles. And we all know that these days,

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Starting point is 00:42:29 Yeah. Have you heard of a psychologist named? No, I can already stop you there. No. Eric Erickson. Nope. But a good name. I like it.

Starting point is 00:42:42 It's a strong name. Honestly, having the last name Eric Erickson, good on his parents. Yes, Eric Erickson. And if his sister is not named Erica Erickson, I'm going to read. There's an issue. There's an issue. I'm going to research that right after this. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:42:55 So now he is, he's one of my favorites, right? Yeah. He talks about the importance of childhood. Yeah. And in childhood, the importance of unstructured play. Yeah. The importance of self-discovery. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:10 Right. And what ends up happening, you could see with so many child actors, people who have become so famous at a young age, is that they have a hard time distinguishing between who they are and their public persona. Yeah. Did you have a challenge with that? It's interesting because as a kid, no, not at all, because I wasn't, you know, my least I was playing Hannah Montana.

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Starting point is 00:44:50 And if I wasn't being Jojo Siwa in that movie, that would have been the case. And I would have had to sit down with my tail between my legs and been like, I guess I'm being told what to do. And honestly, that's how it always was. It was just, I was always me. And I was out and I was always me. And it didn't matter who I was.

Starting point is 00:45:10 It didn't matter if I was loud and crazy. It's just who I was, right? And it didn't matter if I was super chill. Yeah, there was a lot of my life. People didn't see a 10-minute video a day. There's a lot more in your day than 10 minutes, right? But people, again, don't want to watch that. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:45:25 They want to watch the fun entertaining stuff. even on Big Brother. You know what I mean? There's going to be 24 hours in a day cut to 40 minutes. This is true. Right? And so in that 40 minutes,

Starting point is 00:45:35 do you want to see the times when we're being really nice to each other and the times where we're helping each other and the times where we're making up handshakes and the time when we're cooking and the time we're cleaning? Or do you want to see why we have to clean? What food fight did we get in?

Starting point is 00:45:52 What is the drama happening? Yes, you want to see us be nice and have fun and have banter. But people like that's that's that's that's that's entertainment you know what I mean and it's not to say being mean is entertaining that's not that's not not the not case at all but people like to be entertained right and I always knew that as a kid nobody wanted me to make slime I didn't even want to make slime myself but making the world's largest sparkliest slime sold sold but what people didn't see is I would make it chuck it go edit the video and I enjoyed going to edit the video

Starting point is 00:46:27 more than I enjoyed filming it. That's interesting. I loved that side of things. That's interesting. Yeah. So thinking about that, right? Yeah. Where were the hard moments for you?

Starting point is 00:46:37 Because you're right. These are the moments that we didn't see. And to this day, people say, oh, my, like, did she have any hardships? Yes. But I would imagine that you had unbelievable hardships and challenges. I mean, of course. I, when I was 14, maybe. I was 15.

Starting point is 00:46:58 I don't remember. One of those two ages. There used to be a thing called Mima the Month. And it was a big deal at the time. It's now, it sounds so ridiculous and stupid. But I was Mima the Month for October. And it was making fun of me. And I went out to a place called Nottesbury Farm and I went with my four friends.

Starting point is 00:47:17 And I had never experienced in-person bullying like that. Multiple, I'm talking multiple hundreds of people, not two or three. I'm talking hundreds of people shouting, fuck you, Georgia Siwa. Georgia Siwa, you're a bald bitch. Like, people were fucking brutal to me. And they were saying that to me, you know, because the meme was that I had a crazy receding hair line

Starting point is 00:47:42 and that I was going bald at age 14. First of all, I can ask you this. You're bald. Is being bald a bad thing? No, I mean, you know what's interesting. Not at all. You know what's interesting about that is, you know, Studies show that bald men are considered to be the sexiest men.

Starting point is 00:48:00 Okay, don't hype yourself off like that. I see what you're doing over there. I'm just saying, Jojo, this is what I hear. Studies say that women wearing pink moto jackets and two ponies are the sexiest women. That's what I hear too. Yeah, that's the new study that came out. I surveyed one person, my girlfriend.

Starting point is 00:48:17 I'm kidding. Keep going. But no, no, no. But I mean, so you were, so why did you get me in with a month? What was, what happened? Because people were saying that I was going bald. That was it. And they were saying that I was a giant toddler and I was too tall for my age and that I didn't dress my age. I didn't act my age and yada, yada, yada.

Starting point is 00:48:34 And here's what got me about that, right? Here's why I was okay. Because being bald is not a bad thing. And anybody who's saying being bald's a bad thing, you have a problem. If Jackie, okay, we'll just say Jackie is bullying Sarah at school. Sarah might not be able to handle it. Sarah might, you know, develop mental problems, mental health problems. Sarah might just be sad.

Starting point is 00:49:00 Sarah might just have a bad day because of it. If Jackie finds more enjoyment bullying me, she's going to stop bullying Sarah. Let her bully me. Let people shout shit at me. If you shouting shit at me stops you from doing it to somebody else all day long. Hell yeah, I have a receding hairline then. So I started pulling my hair back further. And I started doing videos where I would yank my hair into a ponytail because that's what people were saying.

Starting point is 00:49:24 And so I said say it more. Be my guest. Bullying me. I don't care. You can't. You're far away from me. You're on a comment section. Grow up.

Starting point is 00:49:33 You know what I need? But I realized that I was taking heat off of other kids. And that to me was so valuable at such young age. How long, though, Jojo can you be the punching bag? Right? Because I will say this is that, you know, you know what I was shocked about? And I'm sure you've seen this. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:50 Is I'm shocked at the viciousness of the comment. about you through to this day. Yeah. And also what I'm also very shocked about is whenever we have a guest, I will say, you know, I'll go out and I'll say, what do you think about this particular person? I was at a party this week on Saturday. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:50:09 Right. And I said, you know, we've got, you know, Jojo C-Ws coming. Yeah. And I watched the emotion. Now, it was split. Yeah. Half the room. Oh, my gosh.

Starting point is 00:50:22 Yeah. Lean in. We love her. The other half. But honestly, I hear it every day, so. Was retraction, I can't, ugh, I can't, it was one of those. Yeah. You must feel this.

Starting point is 00:50:35 How long will you accept being the punching bag? As long as they're there. Doesn't matter. Because I can spend my time wondering right now, why did those people think that, right? Or I can spend my time right now going, damn, half the people love me. That's beautiful. Yeah. There were people who don't know me that were choosing to, people who have never met me,

Starting point is 00:51:01 people who have probably seen two videos of me on the internet and heard one of my songs, right? Or people who don't like gay people. And, you know, those other people who said, oh, why? Okay. The other half of those people also don't know me. Maybe you know a little more in my career? Maybe they don't. And they chose to be nice about it.

Starting point is 00:51:24 and they chose to be on the optimistic side. Those are the people that I care about. And I think I can, I don't, I don't mind being the internet's punching bag. All good. Some random comments, yeah, sure, it hurts occasionally. Yeah, sure, it's annoying. Yeah. Yeah, sure.

Starting point is 00:51:44 It's like, okay, grow up, right? Yeah, sure. And every so often I have a moment, right, if somebody decides to hate on something new. If somebody was to say, Jojo has big knees, just say, I would look at my knees and be like, fuck, I gotta do. And then I'd be like, okay, grow up. We're talking about knees here. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:52:01 So it sinks in for a moment. Takes me a second. And then I, you know, spit it back out. I'm like, okay, two people, okay. But there's, I don't know, it's, it doesn't bug me. Because also those people that said, ugh, they still got a little enjoyment saying that. Yeah. You know what I find too interesting about that is that you still evoke emotion.

Starting point is 00:52:25 you know, and to what you were staying true to yourself. Yeah, that's what you want. As a little girl, you were like, hey. Yeah. And they have an opinion. And they care enough about me to have an opinion on me. And I don't know. I think, look, I think it's different if someone's met me and they have a rough experience.

Starting point is 00:52:48 And for that, I would have a conversation and be like, hey, this is why I was acting this way towards you. I had no malicious intent with you. I just was going through this that day or that that day because that's human nature, right? Right. I'm not maybe a nice person every day, but I will always be a good person. So who was it or was it circumstance

Starting point is 00:53:07 that led to that confidence that you're talking about being lowered and lowered as you've gotten older? Honestly, I think myself, because I think I've become more aware of things and I've become more aware of what I look like, more aware of what people are saying to me, more aware of what I sound like more, you know, when you're young, you're naive.

Starting point is 00:53:28 You have an imagination that is bigger. You look in the mirror and you put an outfit on and you don't think, ooh, this like fits my arm funny. You think, oh my God, Hannah Montana! You know what I mean? Like, you, I would put this jacket on as a kid and be like, whoa, it's so cool and sparkly, right?

Starting point is 00:53:45 But as an adult, I'm like, kind of lays on my hips funny, right? That just is like, I think a lot of times we try to point a finger at where that comes from. But a lot of times it's just yourself. You're just becoming more self-aware. Right.

Starting point is 00:53:58 And you hear things. You hear things that other people say, and your brain is developed by billions of different places, right? But I think for me personally, I'm just so aware of myself now. And I'm still growing. Obviously, my brain has four more years until it's full developed, fully developed.

Starting point is 00:54:17 But I don't know. I think that obviously, like, being told stuff every day makes you think about things right being told you're too loud makes you think like do I need to be a little quieter you maybe you don't say that right maybe you say you need to be louder you know but maybe you think oh am I shouting you know what I mean so that's being conscious as you're saying so being self-conscious then is you monitoring that about yourself yeah so what's one area that you think you're most self-conscious about Today.

Starting point is 00:54:54 My singing. You're singing. And it's a booby trap because that's my career. And it's my favorite thing. And it's singing and performing and being live on stage. It's my favorite thing ever. But it is the thing I'm by far most self-conscious about. Wow.

Starting point is 00:55:09 Yeah. Do you consider yourself to be a good singer? Absolutely not. I would never, ever, ever, I wouldn't even say I'm a singer. I would say, my name is Jo Gio Cila. I'm a dancer. I'm a performer, an entertainer, and a reality TV star. I will not say I'm a singer.

Starting point is 00:55:21 because it's unless I really have to unless they're like hey we really need to get in that you're a singer I will I think because when I was little on on dance bombs and the other girls said to me you can't say well that's you're not a good enough singer it stayed with you stuck with me and that was something by my peers by my friends by the people the next day I told who I had a crush on you know what I mean but that sticks in your brain and you don't care about it until two years later when you try to sing and then you're like fuck maybe I can't sing Right. Yeah. So you, and you mentioned this earlier in the conversation is that when you were in the booth, that you cry. All the time.

Starting point is 00:55:58 All the time. All the time. And like even when I leave a recording session, everyone on me around me knows, like, sensitive time. You know what I mean? Like give me an hour to see if I'm okay. What about on stage? When I'm on stage is when I am the most comfortable. Okay.

Starting point is 00:56:14 Feel the most confident. Feel like nothing in the world can go wrong. It is the weirdest thing. Being in a booth, I hate it. Singing live, sign me up. I'm down. Freddie Mercury had this quote, and I used to never sing live. And then Freddie Mercury said, no one can sing my songs better than I can.

Starting point is 00:56:31 And I have that actually typed down all my in-ears because it's so true. You know, you're an artist. You have these songs. People come in me and they're like, you have a platinum song. You're a singer. Right. I'm like, no, I'm an artist. I'm an entertainer.

Starting point is 00:56:44 I'm not. So do you hope to be a singer one day? Can I be really honest? No. I don't, I don't, I'm not spending my life chasing the thing that I feel bad about myself for. You know, I, the more I chase trying to be a singer, the sadder I'll get. The more sad I'll feel about it. The more I chase being an entertainer and a performer and making others feel happy, the better my life is.

Starting point is 00:57:15 And long story short, we don't know when this life ends. and if I spend one more second of my life than I already have going, because I have, right, being like, I want to be a good singer. I want to be a singer. I want to be considered, I want to be taken seriously as a singer. Right.

Starting point is 00:57:31 If I spend one more second doing that and then my life was over, I would roll in the grave. I would literally be like, oh, like you'd literally bury me in my eyes. I would be livid. Yeah. Because I can chase it being a performer and an entertainer. All right. I see it.

Starting point is 00:57:46 And maybe not making the best song. but making a song that's entertaining that you like and that's different and unique and I'm never going to be Celine Dion it's never happening is not within goal reach you know what I mean

Starting point is 00:57:57 it's all good but there are other things that are and you'll chase that and some of the best artist entertainers have some of the wildest voices that people would say are bad I don't think anyone's a bad singer besides myself

Starting point is 00:58:12 but but I know sometimes I need to take my own advice but a lot of people have very opinion opinionated opinions on artists. Someone like Britney Spears, people always say she can't sing. She can't sing for nothing. Okay, she's the biggest pop star in the world. What does it matter?

Starting point is 00:58:27 You're entertaining. You listen to her music. If I was just saying, hit me, baby, you would say, one more time. Sure would, yeah. And that's her song, and she's an artist. You know what I mean? Yeah. All right, good point.

Starting point is 00:58:39 Point, point. I mean, you got it. You got it. Although, I will say, it does pain me to hear you say that you say that you are a bad singer. People hate when I say that. Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely. I mean, thank you for feeling that and saying that. I mean,

Starting point is 00:58:57 it's my team, my partner, my mom, everybody gets very upset with me when I say that. Because they're like, you are the first one to say no one's a bad singer. Why would you say that about yourself? Because I am. But I don't know. I just like to okay, I'll say this. Maybe I'm not a great singer. but I will not stop trying to become the greatest entertainer. I will always be pushing to that.

Starting point is 00:59:30 I'll always be fighting for that spot. I'll always be trying to get there because that's what I care about. I don't care about being the gross best singer. Same way I'm not a good football player. Not good at football. Right, right. And I'm not trying to get there. Right, right.

Starting point is 00:59:43 All good. But so in that zone, you'd be an athlete. here, you're going to be the best, best entertainer. Yeah. All right. So that's the goal. Yeah. That's...

Starting point is 00:59:53 Like, literally, world's greatest entertainer. That's my, like, I just want to make people happy. Okay. Make people feel entertained. 15 second TikTok, two-hour show. It doesn't matter. Okay. All right.

Starting point is 01:00:02 All right. So now, we have to talk about relationships. Ah, please. My favorite topic. Sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is... Because you've had what I would call an interesting...

Starting point is 01:00:13 Is that a good word to use to describe? My relationship life has been described as a lot of words. words. You've had a... Interesting is a nice one. It's interesting. So let's start with this, is that let's talk about sexuality. Yep. And identity. Yeah. Okay. That journey. One I'm still on, for sure. It's interesting. I never, you know, thought and thought twice about anything. I remember one time also on dance moms

Starting point is 01:00:47 One of the girls said This girl who used to dance with us Just came out as a lesbian Her Instagram had gotten hacked And somebody said, I'm a lesbian now On her hacked Instagram So it wasn't her saying And I don't know if she actually is or isn't

Starting point is 01:00:58 But it's at a time where she got a lot of hate for that And I remember the other dance moms girls Who were little saying, oh, she's a lesbian Like that's weird We danced together like we changed in front of her And like she likes girl Like that's weird And I literally remember saying

Starting point is 01:01:14 and I never stood up to other girls, but I remember being like, that's not weird. And they were like, what? And I was like, it's not weird. Kept it pushing. Didn't think twice about anything, right? And then I remember having a best friend, and we met, and this now I was 16.

Starting point is 01:01:31 Yeah, it would have been 16. And we met on a cruise ship, and I asked her, I said, so when did you know you were gay? And she was 15 at the time. And she said, oh, I'm not, I have a boyfriend. And I was like, dude, no way. and she showed me a picture of her and her boyfriend. And she was the first girl that I ever met that I was like,

Starting point is 01:01:48 lesbian. I never met any girl like that, but I knew she was. But anyways, we became best friends. We talked every day. She lived in Florida. I lived in California. Six months later, she comes to me, and she's like, hey, I think I have to tell you something.

Starting point is 01:02:00 It was June, it was Pride Month. And I was like, what's up? I think you were right. And I was like, that you're getting? And she was like, yeah, I think I might like mostly like girls. And I was like, yeah, I know, which is exactly what you're not supposed to do to somebody. You're not supposed to put that pressure

Starting point is 01:02:12 or not supposed to assume anything, but I fully did. And I was like, yeah, I know. And she was like, okay. And two months later, she became my first girlfriend. So how that got there was she was telling me about a crush she had on a girl and how they had a night in a hot tub and they were in bikinis. And she was just sitting there looking at her. And I thought to myself, I wish that was me.

Starting point is 01:02:35 So we were going to see each other again over Christmas because I was going to be in Florida. She lived in Florida. So we're just friends at this point. My parents asked me, like, what would you do if she, like, tried to make a move on you like she did her friend? And I was like, oh, God, she would never, like, we're best friends. It's so weird. And I genuinely believed that at the time. But I was a little jealous of the girl in the hot tub.

Starting point is 01:02:53 Anyways, we see each other in Florida for the first time. And I got in her car. And we sat there for 30 seconds, 45 seconds, staring at each other. And she was like, I should go find a parking spot. And I was like, you should go find a parking spot. Like, it was like the grandest, and we both have talked about this multiple times, like the grandest feeling of feelings that you can feel. And she parked, and we got into the hotel, we went immediately.

Starting point is 01:03:23 She was like, I have to do homework. And I was like, yeah, no, no, no, all good. I have to edit something. And we separated. And then we played this game the whole week called Jaden and Abby, where we retended we were my brother and his girlfriend. And, but at this point, you know, I'm straight. Right, right.

Starting point is 01:03:37 And she asked me, she said, do you have? have a crush on anybody right now. And I said, yeah, knowing it was her. And she said, will you tell me who it is? I said, no. And we played this game the whole week. She would keep asking me. I would keep saying no.

Starting point is 01:03:50 And she said, we just tell me if it's a boy or a girl. And she was the first person that I said, I have a crush on a girl. And she said, I knew it. I knew you were gay too. That's why you cared so much about me being. And I was like, shut up. Don't tell anyone. Like, my family can't know.

Starting point is 01:04:03 Like, that was my thought at the time. She's like, will you tell me why you won't tell me who your crush is? And I was like, no, I'm not talking about it. And she was like, she was like, okay, can I just ask you? Is it because you're afraid of rejection? And like being rejected by this person and I said, yeah. And she said, okay, that's crazy of you. And I was like, huh?

Starting point is 01:04:22 And she said, no one would reject you. I was like, what do you mean? And she was like, well, you're like anybody's perfect person. And honestly, I'm really jealous of whoever your crush is. Wow. And in that moment, I literally told her, I was like, it's you. And then we just cuddled. And it was so sweet and so innocent.

Starting point is 01:04:39 And then that was it. And then the next day we kept, like, looking at each other, like, side eye. Like, we know now, like, it's a mutual crush, whatever. And then, you know, we had kissed that night. And it was, it was beautiful and it was sweet. And that's when I knew. First girl you kissed? First girl I'd ever kissed.

Starting point is 01:04:55 Can I ask the cuddle, though? Yeah. At that moment, what emotion would you use to describe that moment for you? Frozen. I was frozen. I had no thought, no feeling. My body couldn't move. I not only was having feelings for my best friend,

Starting point is 01:05:13 but for a girl in her arms just frozen. Don't know what I'm feeling. Don't know what this feeling is, but I love it. And I want to never, ever stop feeling this feeling. And it just felt so magical. Nothing could go wrong in that feeling. Wow. At what point, though, because you're Jojo Siwa.

Starting point is 01:05:33 Mm-hmm. So at what point do you begin thinking, who am I going to tell? Never. I never thought about it. You never? I never thought about it. So the next day is where we had to separate and it was really hard.

Starting point is 01:05:47 We just had these beautiful grand feelings and I said goodbye to her. I walked her to her, I kissed her goodbye because no one could see us and it was like, what are we going to do about this? We don't know. Nobody knows about me. Some people know about you. Like this is crazy.

Starting point is 01:06:01 And whatever. We're very young also. At this point now we're 17 and 16. Right. And so I get back in the car with my family. And my mom says, I'm crying because we just said goodbye. And my mom says me, like, you really like that girl, don't you? And I was, oh, yeah.

Starting point is 01:06:15 And my mom said, do you like her as a friend or like, do you like her as, like, more than a friend? And she asked me, and I can't lie to save my life. And I'm more than a friend. And my mom was like, I figured. And my dad was like, sweet, no pregnancy scares. And then my dad was like, I bought something while we were at Universal because I kind of thought this was the case. and he pulled out Love is Universal Cup. Wow.

Starting point is 01:06:37 And it, they made it really easy on me. And that's not the case for most people. But then there was like a two-week teething period where it was kind of awkward. My parents didn't really have much conversation with me. And then my mom came to me and was like, hey, I know I've been weird. I don't know how to talk to you.

Starting point is 01:06:54 And she was like, I don't know if I'm supposed to ask you questions. I don't know if it's invasive. I don't know if you want to talk about it. Can we just have a super open conversation? And I was like, I don't know how to talk about it either, but I want to talk about it. want to tell you everything. And I was like, okay, like we had a very open.

Starting point is 01:07:08 I've never had a gay kid before. I don't know. Am I supposed to just like talk to you as if you were a straight kid? Am I supposed to be a little extra, a little less? And I was like, I don't know either, Mom. Like, I think you just talk to me like you talk to Jaden and we'll call it a day. And so we didn't. It worked out great for us.

Starting point is 01:07:21 The support and love that you had from your parents. Yeah. Was unreal. It is unreal. And I'm sure that then allowed you to be more confident. So coming out to the world. Yes, because this is what I find. So I found this stat.

Starting point is 01:07:37 This completely blew me away. So this is a 2016 stat, but a Pride in London survey, 1,000 LGBTQ plus people found that 74% still felt the need to hide their identity when in public. Yeah. That blew me away. Yeah. And I would imagine at that point, you have business interests. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:08:01 And partners who may not want you. you to come out. Yeah. And I had no idea of that. I had no idea of that. I was 17 and I was in love for the first time. And so I made a video to Born This Way. And showing that it doesn't matter.

Starting point is 01:08:20 If you want to think that I'm gay, straight, or by, lesbian, transgender life, I'm on the right track, baby. I was born to survive, right? Those are the lyrics that I sang too. And that was just me being like, look, it doesn't matter, right? Right. Maybe I am. Maybe I'm not up for intradict.

Starting point is 01:08:34 interpretation. And then it got to a point where people were speculating so much. I mean, it was millions of people. It was nuts. There's a thing called queer baiting, right? Where you can kind of people use the queer community, unfortunately, to gain a follower. And it got to a point where people thought I was maybe queer baiting and just trying to get that, right? Get that get. And I wanted to make it very clear that that wasn't the case. But I didn't know what to do. But it got to a point. where I should confirm or deny, right? Either set the record straight or set the record straight that I'm not, right? And just so I'm clear, you're the one making this decision. Absolutely. You're not consulting with anybody? My mom. Just your mom?

Starting point is 01:09:15 I'm telling her my ideas and she's saying, oh, I love that. Oh, you should do that part of the song. Nothing crazy. And at that point, I say, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to think on it, okay? So I phased on my girlfriend. It's about two in the morning. And I had just posted to my close friend's Instagram story a shirt of me saying, best gay cousin ever.

Starting point is 01:09:35 Yes, yeah, okay. And it's 2 a.m. I'm on FaceTime with my partner, and we've been dating for three days at this point, something like that. I told her, I said, I think I'm going to post this picture publicly. And she said, okay, do it.

Starting point is 01:09:46 And I said, okay, I'm going to. And I popped it on Twitter. And I woke up the next day. And it was like nothing I'd ever experienced online. It was bananas. And I thought it was all positive. I thought people were being nice. Ellen DeGeneres reached out.

Starting point is 01:10:05 I mean, people from Grey's Anatomy, which was my favorite show at the time, reached out. Demi Lovato reached out, Madison Beer reached out. Like, beautiful souls reached out. It was crazy. I saw, did Elton John also? Elton John called me. Got my phone number and called me. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 01:10:21 Getting a random number from the UK thinking is a prank call and answering it being like, hello. And it's like, hello, darling, it's Elton John. You're like, fuck, hi. Crazy. And what did he say? We had met before. met a year, year and a half prior, and he just wanted to say how proud he was of me and congratulations. I mean, the closet was a glass door.

Starting point is 01:10:42 Anybody could see like, yeah, no, duh. And so I think he obviously, you know, being in the community, he could see that. He did. He knew. But I thought it was all positive. I thought, I mean, Elton John called me. Who else could have an opinion, right? And then I scrolled.

Starting point is 01:11:00 And I was like, holy. shit. And my thought wasn't, whoa, people are being so mean to me. It was, whoa, people are really homophobic. Still. How is it at the time, I think it was 20, 21. How are we still here? And at that point, it became my mission because I used to be, I still am. I don't want to make it sound like I'm not, but I used to be super passionate about anti-bullying, right? And kids in school, and I still am. It's still a big part of my life. But now being older, something I realized is I used to tell bullies to stop, right? That was the message that I said, stop bullying.

Starting point is 01:11:34 We need end bullying. Tell a teacher, let's end bullying. And when I was like 15, I was like, that's not realistic. You can't tell the bully to stop, but you can tell the person that's getting bullied what to do, how to handle it. You can also tell them that they're beautiful and they're awesome and they don't need to listen to it. You can inspire that person much more than you can stop a bully. And so that, once I came out, kind of taught me that it's not about the homophobic people.

Starting point is 01:11:57 It's not about the people who don't like me. it's about the other people, my age, older than me, younger than me, who maybe are in a closet, maybe are out of a closet. But what about the pressure, though, that the corporates then apply to you? Because you're this last business entity. It was interesting because Nicolodeon, the president at the time, said to me, what are we going to tell the kids? And I said, what do you mean?

Starting point is 01:12:22 And I realize that because, you know, when you come out, you're immediately, people assume you're talking about having sex with a woman. As a lesbian, right? That's what people think, oh, I'm coming out. That means, hey guys, guess what I did? It doesn't mean that at all. And the same way, they think it's cute if I do a music video and have a romantic interest that's a boy. Does that mean I'm having sex with this boy?

Starting point is 01:12:45 I'm 14. No, it means it's cute. And we're drinking lemonade and it's precious, right? And it's not about that. And I think me coming out at such a young age helped that message be pushed. But it's interesting. And this was the story that I was just got. to tell about my best friend because he went through a similar situation he is i'll talk about him openly it's

Starting point is 01:13:04 his name is ezra he's a pro on dancing with the stars now and he's a very new pro he's the newest of the pros him and i met when i did dancing with stars and right away i said to him one of the first things i ever said i was like you're gay right and he was like yeah how'd you know and i was like bro it's obvious and we became best friends we became inseparable anyways he comes on my tour with me and we were on an instagram live stream and mind you he is open the way he tells you he's open the way he talks, he's wearing rainbows left and right, his hair is glittery in rainbow every night. Like, he's very clearly a member of the LGBTQIA community. And we're on an Instagram live and somebody said, do you have a gay best friend, Jojo?

Starting point is 01:13:41 And I said, yes, I do, and he's right here. And I give him a big hug, and he ended the live stream. Oh, wow. And I was like, that was weird. I didn't think twice of it. I thought maybe I hugged him funny or thought maybe he got a text. That was bad. I didn't know what happened.

Starting point is 01:13:54 He doesn't talk to me for a day. Doesn't talk to me for another day. Finally, I was like, you're my best friend and you're not speaking to me. what did I do? And he looked at me so earnestly. He said, you outed me on Instagram Live. And I said, hold on. And he said, I'm not out.

Starting point is 01:14:09 He said, the world, people, my family doesn't know I'm gay. And you outed me. And immediately, I, A, felt so horrible. Because that is queer family 101. You do not out somebody until they are ready. And even then you let them out themselves. And then, you know, you support. That's number one rule.

Starting point is 01:14:29 Do not out somebody until they are ready. But number two, I immediately went into quick, I'm sorry mode, but right after that, it was what's going on. Why? Why do you feel like you have to be in this closet? Why can your family not know? Why? And he said, he said, I'm afraid for my job.

Starting point is 01:14:49 I really want to be on Dancing with the Stars, but I don't think I can if I'm gay. You're, you know, a star and your celebrity and it's different. And he was just about to come out in June for Pride Month. And at that point, then everything had went back to square one because he was told, your job will be in jeopardy by somebody he was very close to. And so I told him, I said, ask. I said, ask the main producer. Ask.

Starting point is 01:15:13 Tell her who you are. And ask. And I guarantee she knows who you are. And I guarantee it's going to be fine. He said, you really think so? And I said, I promise. I promise. And I said, and if not, I will make a TV show and you will be the star.

Starting point is 01:15:25 of it, okay? And so we did. And she replied with the exact message she should have. And it was beautiful. And he came out and he's the first in America openly gay pro. And he is a fucking icon. Especially now after being a

Starting point is 01:15:41 first pro, he was paired, he had a very controversial pairing for his first season and he, everyone loves him. He's one of the most social media famous now from the show and it's been one season and he did it. And that That was another case of a big network being big and scary.

Starting point is 01:15:59 Yes. And whether that be a big network that's big and scary or a family member or a friend, I promise there is this beautiful big community with big open arms waiting to give you the biggest hug. That's a powerful story. I appreciate you sharing that. And I can't imagine how you felt in the moment, but what you've done, you helped to give him the confidence. And it's interesting because him and I, we say we're like husband and wife, because we have. gone through the ringer.

Starting point is 01:16:26 We have not spoken to each other for six months at a time, being mad at each other, not just like, oh, we drifted. Sure. But we've also, like,

Starting point is 01:16:32 he was on my last text today before I went into the big brother house. Like, he is my fucking blood. I love this man. And, like, I even tell, like, my friends or my family or him too. I'm like,

Starting point is 01:16:41 yeah, he's a dingus sometimes, but, like, he's my boy. But, yeah. That's how you know you have love. Yeah. So this is interesting. You said he, Ezra was one of the last text today.

Starting point is 01:16:51 Yeah. But I can guarantee you, the last text was your current partner. It was. It was. Can you speak just a little bit on this?

Starting point is 01:17:00 Because I think the U.S., if this relationship continues, right, the U.S. could lose you. What do you mean? I mean, well, where does your partner live? Australia. Yeah, this is what I'm saying.

Starting point is 01:17:13 I can move. I think you can move. I think you would move for love. There's a lot at stake, obviously. But I, first of all, I was to have the most amazing, beautiful partner.

Starting point is 01:17:24 They are an incredible human being who I don't know how I snagged them at all. Don't know. But it's one of those things that they don't want me to drop everything I have here and run there and I don't want them to drop everything we run there. And, you know, say one day we have kids together. I want my kids to know my partner's family

Starting point is 01:17:44 and my partner wants their kids to know my family. You know what I mean? And so we're in a beautiful place where they like America, I like Australia. We're down. So just go back and forth. Yeah. But how do you manage that?

Starting point is 01:17:56 Because I always say that, you know, the most important thing in a long-distance relationship is to have a date when the distance ends. Yeah. Do you have a date when the distance ends? We have ever, ever changing. You know what I mean? We have our when we're going to see each other next. We try to never, like, end seeing each other without knowing when the next time will be,

Starting point is 01:18:16 whether that be months or weeks or days. I don't know. I think communication is a beautiful thing. And we're lucky we live in a world of FaceTime and a world. in a world of texting calls. And we're also just like with Catholic, I just trust them beyond trust. And it's such a like, yeah, that's my partner.

Starting point is 01:18:35 That's your part. I don't worry. I don't worry about that. So you are in love? Super. Super. Super. I, yeah.

Starting point is 01:18:45 I called, when I said goodbye to them at the airport to come here, I called my mom as soon as I left them. And I said, Mom, I'm really in love with them because I've never said goodbye like that. Where, I mean, I've had my meltdowns. I'd struggle saying goodbye to things because I enjoy the moment so much that then saying goodbye. I'm the type that's like, I know I'm never going to get this moment back. I really struggle saying goodbye. But that goodbye, there was something about it that just felt special.

Starting point is 01:19:18 Yeah. And how does it feel to be loved? It feels like no matter what goes on, no matter if I succeed or I fail, if I win, if I lose, if I'm happier, if I'm sad, if I matter, if I'm nice, it doesn't matter. It feels like I always have an open arm that I can fall into and I can lay a shoulder that I can lean on. And even if I piss them off so much, I can still lay my head on their shoulder and they will still wrap their arms around me. it feels so unconditional. You know, I think you have lots of forms of love in your life, but there's something to be said about an unconditional romantic love.

Starting point is 01:20:02 Yes. And I think even if I've had other loves, I think I've had one other, my first, unconditional romantic love. I feel like that was a very real love. And maybe I've had other loves, right? But I think that unconditional love is something that's very, very hard to come by. I'm with you. There's something special with romantic, unconditional love.

Starting point is 01:20:26 It really is. But you know, JoJo, when I look at your life so far, which is so, you're so young. It's so weird. You're so young. I'm a baby. Right. You are a baby. Literally, you're a baby.

Starting point is 01:20:36 Yeah. But when I look at your life, I question, what would you be without your mom? Honestly, can I be really honest? Let's say I was really young and something happened to my mom. I'd be a neurosurgeon. 100%. My dad is in medical industry. He's a chiropractor. And that's my other passion in life. And this career, I always say I'm not doing it without my mom. I couldn't do it without her and I don't want to do it without her. And so, you know, the Joja Siwa that the world knows will live on until either I'm gone or she's gone.

Starting point is 01:21:12 And then it might be at the drop of a hat that you just never hear from me again publicly. Because then I have my little bubble of my family and my friends. And, you know, I'll still do what I want to do. with the world, but this career is, it would be impossible without her. It's, it's pitcher catcher. And everything goes back to pitch or catcher. I don't know who would fill her spot. She just does a bit of it all. She makes this outfit to sending me the last video that I see.

Starting point is 01:21:37 You know what I mean? She does it all. She made this outfit. Yeah. Are you serious? Yeah. What I mean? I'm not doing it without her.

Starting point is 01:21:43 I will be naked. I will literally be everywhere naked. I can't do it. Yeah. Yeah. She's a superwoman. But I think that if, If I never had her, I still have a big passion for medicine.

Starting point is 01:21:57 It's a big thing that I want to do. I want to build a hospital one day and put my money into that. Like, that's a very big passion in my life. But I think my dad would have been really good nurturing that side of my life. But my mom was better at nurturing this side. So it was either creative or doctor. Yeah. That was it.

Starting point is 01:22:13 Yeah. Even now, like, I still have the conversations with my partner and my family. And they're like, you can literally go to med school if you want. You're young enough. Yes. I'm like, yeah, I'm good. But, like, it's still a passion. There's a different way.

Starting point is 01:22:24 Yeah. I mean, you have plenty of times. Plenty of time. You have plenty of time. What is your dream? My dreams have babies. I just want to be a mom. I stunned you with that one.

Starting point is 01:22:38 You didn't think I was taking it there. You know what? I didn't think you were taking it there. Yeah. But I've heard you mention this. Yeah. And I see that this is something that you don't just say. No.

Starting point is 01:22:47 You truly are passionate about being a mom. Why so? I don't know. I've had a very maternal instinct. no joke for a very long time since I was like 12, 13. I've always had a maternal instinct and it got very strong when I was 17, 18, 16, 17, 18. I think the most important thing is a mutual respect. I think a lot of times it's very easy for children to have respect for their parents when they're

Starting point is 01:23:16 young. Then all of a sudden you become a teenager and you start to learn what respect is and I think where a lot of times it goes wrong is parents don't give respect to the teenager. And so then the teenager realizes, well, then why should I give respect to you? Fair. Absolutely fair.

Starting point is 01:23:34 You know what I mean? I think respect is something that, you know, is mutual. And I think that being friends with your kids is a beautiful thing. Yes. You want your kids to tell you their secrets. You want to keep your kids safe. You want to go to ice cream with your kids.

Starting point is 01:23:49 You want to bring your kid to work. You want your kid to want to come to work. Yeah. You know this party that I was, talking about on Saturday? Yeah. My sons were with me. Yep.

Starting point is 01:23:56 You know, this is what I say. I think that it's interesting. When I was growing up, I think there was a big line between being a friend to your child. Right. But I've reached a point where, you know, my son is one of my best friends. Yeah. You know, and I can see that's the type of parenting. You can.

Starting point is 01:24:15 Like, you would provide. Yep. All right. I only have two more topics because you have to get out of here. What do you want viewers? to learn from you. Viewers of this or viewers from Big Brother? Viewers of Big Brother to learn from you.

Starting point is 01:24:31 Then I'm genuine. I think a lot of people see my past career and they think fake. You know what I mean? Like, you're not nice. You know what I mean? Like, I think a lot of my friends who are in the industry also will be like, how are you not crazy? How are you not super selfish? How are you not? Like, people struggle

Starting point is 01:24:53 to realize that about me when I first meet them. And I don't know, I think I'm excited for people to get to see the human side of me and to see the side of me that's, you know, chilling. Sure. I'm chilling and I'm genuine and I care about people. And I will get anyone a band-aid. Yes. I don't care if they say they hate the ground my mom walks on.

Starting point is 01:25:12 I will tell them to shut the fuck up and I will walk and get them a band-aid. Yeah, I can see it. You know what I'm going to stay with me? The band-aids are going to stay with me. Yeah. What do you believe is most mis-o-up-one? understood about you. Oh, man. A lot of people think that there was always, you know, someone telling me what to do

Starting point is 01:25:31 or someone doing it for me. And that's always super frustrating because it's like, no, dude, like I did it all myself. Yes, I had a big network and yes, I had my mom. But when it comes with YouTube videos and editing and filming and stuff like that, it was all me, coming up with what I did, it was all me, picking out my outfits, all me, you know what I mean? That's a big. And it was you. It was all me. So this transition between the young Jojo and the older Jojo, there were some controversy around that. Yep. But you made those decisions.

Starting point is 01:26:03 You decided. So the last year of my life is the only time when it was different. The last year from karma to about three months ago. Really? That's the only time it's been different. And I've, you know, listened to outside opinions and gone. certain ways and done certain things that maybe I wouldn't have necessarily done,

Starting point is 01:26:26 choices I wouldn't have necessarily made. But I did, and I trusted, because I wanted to do essentially what my boss said. I had a bit of a breakdown. And I cried, and I said, why am I pretending that I'm drinking alcohol and being crazy? I'm a good girl.

Starting point is 01:26:41 I'm saying I'm drinking fireball on stage, but it's apple juice. Oh, wow. So a lot of those decisions over the last year around your brain, it wasn't you. It's been guided, and it's been guided, and it's been, honestly, I'll be honest, karma, karma was me. I wanted to do that. I wanted to do that song.

Starting point is 01:26:57 I wanted to do that dance. I want to do that makeup. I like that. Everything after the day karma was released was not me. Wow. And that's very tough because I look back at my last year of my life and I think, whoa, it could be so different. I could be in a way different place now. But if I was in a way different place now, I wouldn't be on Big Brother.

Starting point is 01:27:15 I wouldn't have met my partner. You know what I mean? There's so many beautiful things in my life that they'd be so. so different if I wouldn't have made changes. I'm happy I did. So then three months ago, what changed? You made changes? I realized that I was in control for the first time again.

Starting point is 01:27:33 But I was still acting as if I wasn't. Okay. And it was interesting. I was kind of being guided everywhere, and I just needed to stop. And I just needed to have a beat. And then this beautiful song fell into my lap. That is a song saying exactly how I feel right now. And as soon as I get out of the Big Brother House, I literally have a day, and then I go into rehearsals for the music video for that song.

Starting point is 01:27:58 And it was very important to me that that was the message that I shared because it's, for the first time again, exactly how I feel. So you're leading once again, you know, which I think that's the right zone for you. And I'm finally with a song, you know, not singing about, I'm happy. I'm positive. I'm on top of the world. I feel great. It's not a song about that. It's a song about the opposite.

Starting point is 01:28:28 So it's like Jojo Siwa's not a bad girl. She's a good girl. Jojo Siwa's a bit, a bit vulnerable. Jojo Siwa is not bulletproof. Jojo Cua can feel sometimes. And it's what it looks like. Okay, okay. Last question then.

Starting point is 01:28:44 Everyone gets this. You've had some incredible conversations in your very short life. Yeah. When you think back to the most memorable, what was that conversation? Who was it with? And what did you learn? It was with Elton John.

Starting point is 01:29:01 Of course it was. And Sasha Baron Cohen. Of course it was. And they were having a discussion about the Queen movie Bohemian Rhapsody. And I was in Elton John's dressing room with Sasha Baron Cohen. And they were talking about the movie. And I wasn't really listening to what they were saying because I was frozen. And Elton says something like, yeah, the guy in the movie, the actor, Rami, you know, he didn't do the vocals.

Starting point is 01:29:24 Who sang? Who sang? And they were talking about this for like three minutes. Sasha's like, what was his name? Like, first of all, Google it. Second of all, I'm standing there and I am the number one fan. I've seen this movie. We rented out the theater because at this point in my life, I couldn't go to a movie theater.

Starting point is 01:29:37 And it was too heathic. So I would, we would rent out the theater and we read it out 14 times to see this movie. It was my life. It changed the world. You rented out the theater 14 times. It changed everything for me. I mean, I studied it. I could give you the whole two hours of the movie right now if you wanted it. Like, it is, it's the only thing that made me sing live was that movie and falling in love with

Starting point is 01:29:57 Freddie Mercury and all of that. It's the reason why I performed with a mic stick, just like Freddie did to honor that love. Yeah, it's beautiful, honestly, what that movie did for me. But I'm the number one fan of it. And they're talking about it. I'd say to my mom, I'm like, it's Mark Marta. And my mom was like, what? And I was like, it's, oh. And I literally, I couldn't help it because they were like, what's his name, what's his name? I was like, it's Mark Martel. And they were like, they both turned around and were like, what? And I was like, I'm so sorry.

Starting point is 01:30:30 I wasn't eavesdropping, but I totally was eavesdropping. The name you guys are trying to think of, it's Mark Martel. That's who did the vocals in the movie. And Elton John said, join us. And he scooted over on the couch. And I sat in between them. And now it's Elton, Sasha, and me. And I'm just, we're having a chit chat about the Queen movie now.

Starting point is 01:30:47 because Elton and Freddie were obviously very good friends. And, yeah, crazy. So that conversation is memorable. Is it because of who it was, the topic, all the above, or anything else? It was because these absolute legends had no reason to include me as a 15-year-old. No reason. They didn't need to. They were buddies, but I felt included.

Starting point is 01:31:11 And I felt important in a room that I should feel super not important. You're with Elton John and Sasha Baron Cohen. You know what I mean? Yes. And yeah, I don't know. It's just, also it's just cool. I got to teach them something. Like, it was just, as a 15-year-old, you think that's cool,

Starting point is 01:31:27 but that's for sure the most memorable. Absolutely. You know, I will say this is that I keep going back to you've achieved so many things, interacted with so many people. But what is clear is that you were just at the beginning. You know, you're just at the start. It's crazy. Because sometimes when people say that to me, and I'm in a good place now,

Starting point is 01:31:47 right now where I'm taking that the right way where I'm like, thank you. Like that means lawyers. You know what I would say. Yes. But sometimes people say that to me in a negative context. Oh, interesting. And I literally have, like, I sometimes want to be like, bitch, I'm 12 years deep in this. There's no way I'm still having. Oh, because they're saying that you haven't.

Starting point is 01:32:04 They're like, you're just getting started. And I'm like, no, I'm not. And it's almost in a context of like, oh, you have so much to learn. And I'm like, bitch. I, no. No. I have done more TV shows than years you've been alive. I have written more songs than years you've been alive. I have fired more people than you have years been alive, okay?

Starting point is 01:32:29 Yes. Like I, oh, when it's in that context, it drives me nuts. But the context that you're saying in it is. Yeah, yeah. I'm saying like you've made incredible impact. Thank you. Like the age range, the demographics, the years, the youngest to sell out the 02 at 16 years old. Come on now.

Starting point is 01:32:47 It's like all of these things are incredible, but I'm saying that you are going to achieve even more incredible feats going forward. That means so much. It really does. Yeah. I appreciate this conversation. I appreciate you.

Starting point is 01:32:58 It was a beautiful conversation. I wish you the best in this house. Thank you. Stay tuned. But we got to get you out of here because we got to get you to the house. I don't know what time it is, but I'm like, it's got it.

Starting point is 01:33:08 He almost house tired. It's right on time. Burke. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. Look at this. We got Kingston joining us today.

Starting point is 01:33:19 I have not seen this Jojo that we saw today. She came in with the highest level of energy that I have seen thus far from any of our guests. And you could say she was performing in one sense, but then as we got to the conversation, I could see that's part of her. You know, that's part of her nature, is to, she knows how to turn it up.

Starting point is 01:33:44 But today you saw a different tone. I was shocked at how challenge she felt about this last year. I don't think she's been pleased with the direction of her career. So I was surprised. You're good at this. Oh my gosh. This guy said, I'm coming for your chair, Dad.

Starting point is 01:34:09 What surprised me the most, she still is very conscious about how the public feels about her. The comments hurt. And she considers them. And I think that it's something that we always have to be conscious of. She has been ridiculed. She's been name called. But yet she shows up every day trying to fight against that storm.

Starting point is 01:34:37 And I think ultimately, and this seems like such a simple message, but it's so profound, is be kind. You know, not only be kind to those around us and those in your family and those of your friends, but be kind to these online personalities and these stars and these celebrities because they do read the comments. They do take in that information into their life and it does shape their psyche. So be kind. The odds are that she is going to win Big Brother. That's what the betting odds are. We'll see.

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Starting point is 01:36:10 Terms apply. Hey, Mama. Thanks for making all my favorite recipes. Hi, Ma. Thanks for your unfiltered advice. Hi, Mom. Thanks for always being by the phone. Hey, Mom. Happy Mother's Day.

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