We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Kelly Osbourne on Ozzy’s Final Words and Choosing Herself “I Didn’t Know What I Looked Like”

Episode Date: September 15, 2026

Kelly Osbourne opens up about Ozzy Osbourne’s final days, growing up in The Osbournes and the reality of becoming famous as a teenager in her first sit-down with Paul C. Brunson. She reflects on her father’s death, why she believes he was preparing her for his passing, and her complicated relationship with her sister Aimee. Kelly looks back at the overnight success of The Osbournes, being followed by paparazzi and relentlessly scrutinised for her appearance. She also revisits the backlash she received after the BRITs, when comments about her body overshadowed her father’s lifetime achievement award, and the impact the press had on her confidence and mental health. She opens up about addiction and the pain she was trying to escape, including one of the darkest periods of her life while her mother was battling cancer. Kelly reflects on returning to drinking after her father’s death and how grief and motherhood have brought her into a new chapter - finally ready to step beyond being “Ozzy Osbourne’s daughter” and build a life on her own terms. Kelly Osbourne, We Need To Talk This episode includes topics of suicidal ideation, body image, addiction and grief. If these subjects are difficult for you, please watch with care. We have included links to support resources here: Samaritans: https://linkly.link/2dx7Z    CALM: https://linkly.link/2dx8H    MIND:  https://linkly.link/2dx8b    Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk   https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod   Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Follow Kelly here: https://www.instagram.com/kellyo https://www.tiktok.com/@kellyosbourneyo (00:00) Intro (02:01) Kelly Reads A Letter From Paul's Wife Jill (05:15) Losing Her Father Ozzy Osbourne (08:14) Growing Up In England (12:07) Moving To LA At 13 (15:23) The Osbournes And Party Years (25:29) The Press And Body Image (27:23) The BRITs Backlash (33:52) Huel Ad (34:55) The Osbournes Changed Reality TV (38:17) Life Inside The Osbournes (48:52) Becoming Famous Overnight (01:02:20) Addiction And Escaping Pain (01:06:31) Working With Joan Rivers (01:08:43) Finding Her Own Identity (01:10:35) Her Bond With Ozzy Osbourne (01:11:51) Surprise Photo (01:14:18) Sharon And Ozzy's Love Story (01:17:52) Why Family Mattered To Ozzy Osbourne (01:27:36) Ozzy's Final Months (01:28:59) Sharon Behind Ozzy's Success (01:37:35) Her Relationship With Jack (01:40:04) Becoming A Mother (01:44:53) Working With Dolly Parton (01:55:21) Paul's Takeaways Sponsored by:  Huel - http://uk.huel.com/WNTT use code WNTT for £10 off  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Don't you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life? You know, the same way you can skip an ad? I get it. I'm Siaiaa and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned. And today, I'm still figuring it out. Somehow things usually get worse before they get better. Apparently, that's how I roll.

So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Stream a new episode of North of North Tuesdays on CBC Gem. that I was before my father passed is dead. That girl will never come back. The night before the Oswald's launch, and my mum said, if we just make the biggest mistake of our life, I woke up the next day, and I was literally the most famous 16-year-old in the world.

All of the fat jabs came in. I went from thinking that there was nothing wrong with me to having an incredible amount of insecurity. You and your mother went to the Brits. If you look at the comments, I got assassinated over something that should have been about my dad and his legacy. I don't really recall anyone standing up for me. And I'll be honestly, even to my own family. I never did drugs because I wanted a party. I just didn't want to

feel the pain. The pain of work. Nothing took me out like losing my dad. I started drinking again. I lost not just my father, but my hero. I truly believe that my dad was slowly preparing me for it. Three days later, he was gone. What are you discovering about yourself? I'm good enough on my own. I don't need to just be I'm so sick of everyone else controlling the narrative of me. I get to say who I am. You don't. I want to show you this. And of course you would call me an asshole.

Look, pause with me for just a second. Today marks 100 episodes of We Need to Talk. And honestly, I just want to say thank you. Now whether you've been with us every single week since day one or you just drop in when a guest catches your eye, I see you. I truly appreciate you. every comment, every share, every time you show up, it matters. We're building a really special community here. If you want to support what we're doing without spending a penny,

please take a second and hit the follow button. It costs nothing, but it signals to the world that these conversations matter. Thank you for being on this journey with us. Now, let's get started. There's so many stories. that I want to hear from you. There's so many people who have come in and out of your life that I want to talk about. But I'd love to start this conversation in a way that we've never started before.

Okay. All right. We've never done this. This is special for you, Kelly. Oh, my God, I'm honored. All right. So let me tell you, I am leaving my house this morning. Mm-hmm.

And my wife, Jill, stops me. and she gives me this. Now, you see whose name is on this? I'm a bit nervous now. It's your name. Yeah. Now, we have had, this is our, we've been doing this podcast for two years. 100 plus guests.

She's loved, loved many of our guests, right? She has never, ever written anything to any one of her, ever. Now, she wanted me to give this to you in private, but I'm going to thoroughly embarrass her. Okay, let's see. Probably going to have me in tears. I know it. Here's what's interesting about this. This is a risk because I do not know what's in it.

What's in it? But I ask her if I could share this with you while we're filming and she said, yes. So this is from my wife to you. Thank you so much. Oh my God, this means so much to me. You've no idea. Oh my God, this card's amazing. Kelly, I'm so sorry I couldn't be there today,

but I wanted to send you a little note to let you know how much I've admired you over the last year. Over years, sorry. I've followed your journey since the Osbournes through all the years since I've always admired your boldness, your bravery, your willingness to live the true.

in an industry that can be incredibly critical and unforgiving. And now to see the beautiful family you've created is just lovely. I also wanted to say how deeply sorry I am for the loss of your dad. I was very close to my own father, and when I lost him, I spiraled in ways I never could have imagined. So while everyone's grief is uniquely their own, I have lost. some sense of just how disorientating or consuming that kind of loss can be. The fact that you continue to show up for the people you love, even while carrying such

enormous grief, says so much about you. I hope you're giving yourself all the grace time you need. And finally, should you ever fancy escaping? To do lunch, you're always well. to our place. Sending you lots of love. Oh my God. Thank you. It's stuff like this that

they got me through. You know, the outpouring of love and support and people just being so kind and understanding because you don't understand grief until you've really been through it. And I mean, I'd lost people before

that I'd truly loved. But nothing took me out like losing my dad. You know, I had no idea what was going to be in that. And what Jill mentioned is she did. She lost her father. And to me, what was so painful to see in it is that I could see that I could see that there was a part of her, that would never come back.

No, I always, I've said many times, the girl that I was before my father passed is dead. That girl will never come back. I had to figure out everything from like ground zero to now. I will never be the same again. I lost not just my father, but my best friend, my main protector, my biggest cheerleader, my hero. The one who always had my back, and I believe the only person in this world who was ever truly seeing me for who I am and loved me anyway. Unconditionally, yeah. Anticipatory grief is a whole other thing in itself.

Yes. Because you know something's going to happen. We were told it was going to happen. You just don't know when. So you sit there and you're like, is this the last time I'm going to see you? Is this the last time? I'm going to hug you. Is this the last conversation we're ever going to have?

And I was so lucky because in a sense, I truly believe. that my dad went out exactly the way he wanted to. And he was slowly preparing me for it along the way. That's interesting. Yeah. Over the course of several years, you think? Specifically over a course of several months. Several months.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. What I would love to do is even to honor your father in this and to honor you is, I would love if we can get to know the Kelly that, did you call you Kelly? Totsie. Totsie. Kelly Tots or Totsy, yeah.

Kelly Tots. I want us to get a chance to meet Kelly Tots, the whole world, you know, and I'd love to walk through your journey and really understand you, you know. And I think it's time for us, for the world, to know you. Can we go to the beginning? To the beginning. Oh, and is it Beaconsfield? Beaconsfield.

Beckonsfield. You know, I had to go look this up on a map. Like, where's Beckinsville? So you were born in Beckinsville? No, I was born in Westminster. Spent the first two years of my, a year and a half or two years of my life in Hampstead. Okay.

And then my mom decided that she didn't want us to grow up in London. She wanted us to have, like, garden and outside country life. And I look back in it now, and I have such fond memories of my childhood growing up in England. And I mean, I send my son to the same school I went to. Really? Yeah. Really?

Yeah. Oh, my goodness. And there's one teacher there that was there when I was there. Really? Look at that. It's crazy. And how does that teacher remember you? Who is Kelly?

I was, you know, very, just like I've always marched the beat of my own drum kind of thing. So how long were you here in England before moving to? I moved to America when I was there. Okay, so you're, this is interesting. So you were here up until 13. So my youngest is almost 13. And he's now spent over half of his life here. Does he have an English accent or an American?

So this is what's interesting is he, I think, so he has an American accent, but I think he tries to hold on to the American accent. See, my little one is getting a toying now. And I'm like, please get rid of the American, please get rid of the American. and I wanted to go away. And I think in the next full year of being in school every day and only being around English people, I do think it's going to fade because I'm hearing it fade.

Interesting. But it comes in and out. It's almost like Mark Rawlinson. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's very like, I think it's a conscious thing, though, because my brother does not sound English anymore. This is interesting.

You know what? You're right. You're talking about Jack. Yeah. Yeah. He does not sound English anymore. And, but me and my mom still sound very English. Yes.

So. So why is that? Do you think he just leaned into the American? I think it's also the way that you have to move your mouth in order to sound American. Okay. And I don't think that it was a very me thing. Like you have to really along. things.

Yes. And it just didn't, it just didn't feel authentic to me. No, no. I tell you, I mean, me personally, now I've been here for, right, nine years. I love the British,

I love, so many things about British. You can walk two blocks over and then it's a completely different accent. Completely. Like you could be in Pimniko and then you could be in Westminster and it is a completely different accent.

Yes, yes, entirely different. Whereas in the US, there's so fewer accents, right? At 13, though, did you, where did you, because at 13, I'm thinking, okay, your father at 13 is a very successful musician worldwide. I didn't have any understanding of money or fame or any of that. You knew nothing about this. It just, it's what my dad did. That was it.

But it wasn't until I moved to America where I understood the competitive nature of money, fame and the kind of car you droops. Right. And also, too, is you moved from the UK to L.A. And as you said, you were outside of London, too. Yeah. So you moved to L.A. That was the jungle. I was like, I was fresh off the boat, like, not understanding the ways of California life.

And even though I was accepted because of the fact that my parents were in the industry. So I technically belonged. Right. I didn't like it. I never felt like I've written. I still don't feel like I fit in over there. I've always felt like there wasn't like a place for me unless I was in the gay community.

Okay. Because the gay community is what taught me how to be me. Because when you think about it, like, you know, drag queens taught me. make up. They taught me, you know, to be fiercely yourself, no matter what anyone says, and that you can be creative in ways that you never thought imaginable. And they taught me how to stand properly and more ladylike. And because I was a bit of a tomboy. And I wanted to know more girly things, but I just, I didn't really have access to it. Okay.

until I started hanging out with the gays And what age were you at that point? Probably about 14, 15. 14. So then at 13, though, it sounds like you were, for the most part,

ostracized, you were on your own. Yeah, pretty much. Like, when I went to school, like, I didn't really make a lot of friends. I just didn't seem to... And it wasn't because it was just like, Even though we spoke the same language, we didn't.

Like, they cared about things that I had no concept of. Okay. And they, you know, the world of glitz and clamor wasn't what it is now. And people's value wasn't necessarily based on what car you drove and what handbag you have. And if you had a private jet, like, those. Those are all things that were part of my life that I didn't know wasn't normal. Okay. So at 13 also, though, 13 is where I think a lot of us are beginning to form our identity.

Mm-hmm. And moving from one country to another, specifically, I think, going to L.A., it must impact how you saw yourself, right? So what was your identity? I'll tell you what, I was just, I was just me. Okay. The impact on my identity didn't happen until I became famous. And that happened overnight. I went from just being a kid to one of the most famous people in the entire world in one night.

And I remember the night before the Osbournes launched on TV, me, my mom and my brother went for a walk on Venice Beach and we all looked at each other. And my mom said, if we just made the biggest mistake of our lives. and I was like because we weren't normal we weren't like everyone else but we were just being ourselves and then all of a sudden the judgment came in

and I was like the very next day there were pepper outside my house people waiting in cars to follow me I thought I was being like stalked or something I had no idea like why would they want to take a picture of me it's not about me it's more about my mom and dad like I didn't even think the show was going to make me famous.

Okay. And I was just excited because it was MTV and it was cool. You're a teenager? Yeah. Yeah. MTV is the hottest network. And then all of the fat jabs came in and it was like, oh, she's fat and she's this, she's that and she dresses weird.

And I went from just being so comfortable being me and thinking that there was nothing wrong with me to having an incredible amount of instant. Insecurity. So what was family life like for the Osbournes before MTV, before the... So you get to L.A. Who is it? It's you... Me and my brother, my sister, and my dad, and my mom. Your mom. Okay. So your sister's one year older. Amy.

Amy, yes. Your Jack is one year younger. All right. So it's the three of the... I'm the middle one. Of course you are. The crazy one. Of course you're the middle child. Right? Of course you are.

And so you're living in L.A. It's your mom, it's your dad. Now, how L.A. were you? Did you have, like, staff, drivers, masseuse? No, no, no, no. We lived firstly, well, kind of. Firstly, we moved into the Sunset Maki Hotel. Okay.

And I lived there for a little bit. I lived there on and off throughout periods of my whole life. Like, I'm like the Eloise of that hotel. And then we moved to the Beverly Hills Hotel. And that's where we started to meet everyone. And that's where we started to realize, wait, we can do certain things. Like we can go out to a club.

And yeah, and I was like 13 years old walking out my parents' front door, walking to Sunset Strip and go into the Roxy or going to On the Rocks which is upstairs or... upstairs or and because we've been on tour with so many bands throughout our whole lives. Whenever they were in town or if they were based in LA, they knew us. They always looked after us and like, for example, Incubus or I'm trying to think like any of the bands that when they were in town, they got to know me and my brother specifically so well that they'd be like, yeah, we go and sham, we'll take them out tonight.

And that kind of developed into like me getting to know the whole club scene in L.A. before the Lindsay Law got put in place. Okay, which is the Lindsay Law. It is Lindsay Lohan because she was underage and doing everything that she was doing at the time. Again, we were young. Yes. It was a different time.

I could get in anywhere. I'd bake my own drinks behind the bar. And you were living in the Beverly Hills Hotel? My gosh. So for people who don't know, the Beverly Hills Hotel is super iconic. And I believe it's one of the most expensive. hotels in the world.

I think it's the most expensive hotel in the world. One of them, I think. Yeah. We lived in, we lived in bungalow 5A and it was great.

Our house was one street over on Beverly Drive. It was 9.06 North Beverly Drive and it was being rebuilt. So we lived there while it was being rebuilt. And then we finally moved in. And then

my mom found another house that she liked better, which was on Doheny Road. And what that house was being built, we moved into the sunset marquee again. Okay. And during that time is when we signed the contract for the Osborne. So I don't believe I was quite 16 yet. I couldn't drive. Okay.

And when we finally moved into the house that we filmed the Osborne's in, that's when it all kind of started. And we were like, I was like, Every night. I remember it was like Paris Hilton on Roller Skates and clubs. And it was a different time that was so fun in Hollywood. It really was like the streets were paved with endless possibilities and gold. And anyone could become anything.

And it was fun. But now it's like people shitting in the streets and following you home from restaurants and rubbing you at gunpoint. and it's a different world there now. It's a different world. It is. It is. And I want to make very clear.

I never did drugs because I wanted a party. I never drank because I wanted a party. I just didn't want to feel the pain. What was the pain? The pain of what? The insecurity, the self-doubt, the not feeling deserving. Because you have to understand, like, I went to bed one night, and then I woke up the next day

and I was literally the most famous 16 year old in the world and I couldn't figure out why I didn't feel like I deserved it or worked for it or like it didn't make sense and then everything articles that people wrote about me

and the things that they've said about me throughout my whole life specifically me and I'm not just talking about like I'm a victim. Like, no, I'm just talking that it is factual. No, I can't think of any other celebrity who has had to deal with as much abuse from the media for nothing than me. I want us to talk about it because I think that also is what, unfortunately, that's what I remember. I mean, people would be fired and, like, cancelled for the shit they wrote about me.

Yeah. It's interesting because I think back to the Osbournes, I think about, here's how I remember it, unfortunately. I know. Unfortunately, here's how I remember it. I remember it as Ozzy Osbourne, Larger Than Life Rockstar. Out of his mind. Right, out of his mind, right? But larger than life, a rock star.

His wife, Sharon, is out of her mind as well, but she's able to control this tornado. That's Ozzy Osbourne. And then she has these two kids. They are rebels. They're loud. They are yelling at each other. They are troublemakers. Right?

I was a little anarchist. I can't deny it. This is who they are. And this was what I felt like, what was sold. Now, before the show even comes about, you're already in that world. You're already in that world. You're already abusing drugs. And what is your identity?

Because you said you feel like you don't fit in. So how did you view yourself? I will say that I look back on it now and I was like, shit. I really had a lot of confidence. And I don't know if that was like the chemical confidence or whatever, but I thought I knew everything. Okay. I thought that as every child does as they grow up, that their parents know nothing. What do they know?

What it's like to be a kid in today's society? Now I look back and I'm like, my mom knew everything. Yeah. Everything. She was right about everything, and my dad was too. And I always said, I was like, I'm never going to drink, I'm never going to do that, and I don't need that, I'm fine without it, and I ended up exactly the same with my dad. I do believe it to be a genetic disorder.

And it's, you know, it's something I even worry about with my son. I never want him to go through what I went through. ever. I want him to be confident enough in himself that he never even feels that kind of pain that he thinks he has to numb. Yeah. And that's so profound that when you reflect back,

you don't know if that was natural confidence or that was just the survival. Survival. Or, as you said, liquid confidence. So you're not sure. But you knew that you presented confidently. But I also got to a point where I was like, I don't give a fuck.

people were so mean that I was just like, I might as well fulfill what they're saying about me then. How so? And this is before the show. So who were the people? I mean, at school they were so mean. Because I had an English accent, and I was a little chubby.

And like I said, I didn't look like the L.A. girl. So you were 14 at this time, 14, 15 years old. And so what was your perception of your body? I didn't think there was anything wrong with it. Right, because it's interesting. And that's where I'm going. That's what I'm trying to understand is because you were confident in who you were. And I didn't think there was anything wrong with it until other people started pointing it out.

Okay. And everyone is... To this day, you will never read an article about me. And there has never been an article written about me. me where they don't make some note of my physical appearance. Yeah. And this, so this is what I'm trying to understand, though, because I, so. And my whole thing is like, why do you give a shit?

Yeah. It's not like I'm trying to be like a sexy model. I've never been that girl. It's not like I'm known for like my body. Like, I don't understand why they put so much pretense on it because I wasn't trying to be that. Right. But, but also, too, is.

and I have some photos of you at 15. You are, on average, you are, from a weight perspective. Normal. You were absolutely normal. It was L.A. Okay, okay. Fair, fair. And it was Hollywood, and it was the celebrity world. And I just took so much abuse for it because I wouldn't conform.

What was, you know, what did your parents have to say about that? at that time. My mom and dad always said to me, if you want to lose the weight, you can. If you don't, leave yourself alone. There's nothing wrong with you. And my mom wouldn't go in on people. So when you and your mother went to the Brits

to collect the, was it, Lifetime Achievement Award for your father, that post, I went to that post, and here's a moment that is celebrating the lifetime achievement of Ozzy Osbourne. Proud daughter, proud mother. And if you look at the comments, they're disgusting.

They're hideous and disgusting and predominantly about how you look in this. From that moment through to now, I've seen that I feel like you've been more even outspoken about calling people out. I couldn't take it anymore. Can you take us to when you saw that? First of all, I didn't know what I looked like.

I couldn't see it. I was so unwell, I couldn't see it. And then I saw those pictures and I was like, oh my God. Like, this is not good. This is not good. And I just couldn't believe. But if I'd cancer, people would be like, you look great. Bravo, how brave of you.

But no, what I was suffering from was mental health issues and grief. And I got literally assassinated over something that should have been about my dad and his legacy. And people couldn't see past that. All they wanted to do was rip me to shreds. And it also made me so sad for the state of this world. The people could be so cruel. So cruel. How does that make sense?

them feel good. What is wrong with them? They must be very unwell people. But it also in itself, I was like, it did allow me to see what they saw. And it did make, it was a wake-up call. But there was so much more going on in my life that I can't speak about, that contributed. And if people only fucking knew. Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean, it's so hard for me

to understand how someone would go on to a social media post or perhaps send you a direct message. Oh, don't, you don't. I mean, if you would like to, you can have a strong, hard look at some of the shit I get. You wouldn't believe how mean people are.

Yeah, I don't. That's the part that I can't calculate. It's weird, right? And then especially because we know what you're going through. Oh, yeah. And then if you go and you look at their profile, it'll be like, lover of Jesus and mother of whatever,

and it will be them like half naked on a pole as their profile picture. And you're like, this totally contradicts everything that you're saying. Yes. Or like people who used to call me fat. I'm like, you're fatter than I am. What are you on about? what made you feel like you needed to do that?

Right. It just shows you how many sick people there are in this world. Right. And how heartless people can be. Because you've been having to deal with this the entirety of your adulthood. The entirety of your adulthood. I have a lot thicker skin that I ever gave myself credit for.

I will say that. But does it still hurt? You know what? It hurts me. for humanity, that this is the world that we live in now where people feel that it's okay to be that cruel. It's not about me. They do it to so many other people too. It is weird, I will say, that I do end up getting a lot of it. But I think it's because people think that they own a piece of me because they've grown up with me. Okay. And they've made up their mind that. They've made up

their minds as to who I am, like 25 years ago, and they're still running with that narrative. And it's just... And you know what really pissed me off? He's like, I don't really recall anyone standing up for me. That's interesting. I don't. I saw maybe a couple of posts. But it wasn't like...

And I'll be honest with you, even to my own family... Because you have to remember they're all dealing with their own grief. They're not focusing on what's happening with me. Right. It's just, you know, I had to walk through that alone. And it was really fucking hard. But I've come out the other side of it and I am stronger as a result of it. Yeah.

I mean, you definitely, to me, you present today like someone who has fire in her belly. Oh, I have a fire up my ass like you would fucking believe Well, up your ass too You will not believe There is so much that I plan on doing There is so much that I have to offer There is so much work yet to be done And it hasn't even begun

And every single one of them Can suck shit Because I get to be me And I'm sorry that your life is miserable But you can change that too if you want to Don't take it out on me I love it. I love it. We have a lot of big conversations on this show, and yes, they sometimes get challenging,

but they're always worth having. So let me ask you this. Is perfection getting in the way of your piece? If so, it might be time to take off the pressure and add some ease to your routine. For me, ease looks like getting in my essential nutrients and vitamins with our sponsor, Hewles Black Edition Powder. It's not a protein shake. It's a complete meal in just two scoops.

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While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when West Jet welcomes you on board. Here's to Westjetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years. So then we have to talk about how the Osbournes come about as a show. Because what I find so interesting is, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, is that, was the Osbournes the first?

Yes. Okay, so was the first reality TV family series? We did MTV Cribs. and it was their highest rated MTV Cribs ever Okay And for the people who don't know about MTV Crizzan

I'm like yeah yeah I watch it all this time But Kelly there must be There'll be some young bucks out there So MTV Cribs was a show where they took you through Celebrities Homes and they showed you

and everybody would walk through their bedroom and say this is where the magic lessons And like everyone would show off their cars and their extravagant lifestyles And a lot of the time it was rented houses and people pretending that they lived there when they didn't. But it was our real home.

And they asked if me and my brother wanted to do it with my dad. And there was so many requests into MTV for more of it. So more of seeing me and my brother and my dad. And I don't even remember if my mom was actually in MTV Cribs very much at all. Okay. And I remember I thought I was so cool because I was like. MTV and I was wearing this denim jacket that was Fendi that had rhinestones on it and I thought I was so cool.

I mean that is cool and I was like you know and I remember calling it my best friend and being like in England and I was like yes what I did today and like then they asked us to go on TRL and which was total request live and they played the top 10 music videos of the day because it was on every day at that time. Yes. And you'd have to call in and request it to make sure you got your favorite music video up. And it was like a great show and there'd be thousands of people outside in New York City

in Times Square, like watching up at the window to see it be filmed live. That was me. I was down there. Yeah. Carson Daily was hosting. Carson Daily. And there was like the famous photo booth where everyone got their pitch taken. and it just, it was like, it was so cool, it was so fun.

And then from there, they asked me and my brother to do MTV Spring Break. Oh, wow, okay. Which was for people who don't know and were too young, was one of their biggest things of the year, which was they'd either go to Mexico or Florida, I think, and all these different bands would come and perform and they'd have live shows and film it. And what were you and Jack doing?

Just presenting a few bits. Okay. And we couldn't fucking believe we got invited because it meant that you were like, cool, if you got invited. And it just, and then it will kind of stem from there. And then it was like a natural progression about how would you feel about doing a show about your guys' life? And it was more my mom's idea to stretch it out

because they were trying to figure out more ways in which they could work with us. And we were like, well, let's just turn the cameras on and see what happens. And we had cameras in our house 24 hours a day. There were two crews, 12-hour shifts each. Camera set up in every room except full bathrooms and bedrooms. Okay. It just happened how it happened. And it took a long time to film this evening.

Yeah. And so how long did it take to film the first season? I want to say like six months. Okay. It was now that it's like two weeks. Two weeks, yeah. And they're produced moments, they call them. Yes, produced moments where they tell you the story.

They don't tell you what to say, but they tell you what they want to get out of it. And then you go and film it and that's it. Yeah. So it's pretty much like set-ups and acting. Whereas at that point, it's truly follow-on docu-us. What happened, how it happened, when it happened. It's not structured. No.

Okay. It costs too much money to do it the way we did it. Yes. Yes. I mean, that's a massive production. And also, it's never been done before. So you have no idea what the result is going to be. But if I can ask, because your sister is living at the house at that time.

Yes, she lived in the guest house. And she chose, from what I understand it, she chose not to participate. Mm-hmm. So what was that conversation like when you sit down and she says, you know what, I'm opting out of this? I can't tell the whole truth because I don't want to speak on behalf of her. Okay. And I do, you know, we're not close. But I do respect her enough to, you know, keep her anonymity, if you understand.

I believe there's a reason for everything. It just wasn't meant to be for her. Okay. Okay, fair. That's fair. So then during that time, you and Jack... But it was always me and Jack. Right. If I'm honest, my older sister didn't really ever acknowledge me and my brother. She was just in her own world doing her own thing.

Okay. Okay. And I do, to a certain extent, if I'm honest, feel as though she was embarrassed of us. of you and Jack of the whole family. The whole family. Because of how you were, for what reason, how you were living or? I never really truly understand. It just felt that way. I, you know, like, we're very different.

Everything I am, she's not, everything she is, I'm not. You couldn't be more polar opposite. We're like oil and water. Yeah. If I can ask, and stop me at any point, But the reason why I do want to proceed down this road a little bit is because, you know, I have two boys. So one is younger than the other. And I can see how the younger one wants the admiration from the older one.

He won't admit it. I will tell you it's one of the hardest things in my life that I never got a big sister. And I had to learn how to do certain things that a big sister should have taught you on my own. Yeah. And I do have a resentment in there. I'll have that forever. That's fair. Is there hope?

No. For a reconciliation? No. Okay. No. Okay. All right, fair. I just, I respect her.

I accept her. But we're different. And that's okay. Yeah. It is. You know, with family, I think it's interesting because I think there's an assumption that because you share blood, everything should be shared. But I think the beauty in life is that you have an opportunity to also select who your family is.

How do I say this without sounding like a bitch? If you're not going to accept me for who I am and constantly be trying to change me and say horrible things about me, and truly seem to thrive when I'm not doing well, I don't want you in my life. Okay, okay. Can I go back then? Mm-hmm.

Because the decision to participate in this project, you still have to say, yes, you want to. I was so excited. So there's no question. No. I was like, yep, count me in. Okay, but now there had never been anything like that before. So what did you think you were signing up?

too. Had no idea. Honestly, had no idea. I was just like, I'm going to be on MTV. This is cool as fog. Okay. And Jack was the same. Yeah.

And me and my brother, we grew up very close. Very, very, very, very close. And we did everything together. We shared a room together. We shed clothes, like everything. Like, it was always me and Jack. And when we were little,

people used to think we were twins. but, you know, because we looked a lot alike and just we did everything together. Yes. Yes. All right. All right. So that's the decision. So you were in.

Jack was in. Yeah. Your father was in. Now your mother, because she might not have been at some of the other MTV. So spring break, etc. But it sounds like she was behind the scene. She was orchestrating it. No.

She was doing all that stuff in the behind the scenes. And then when she knew she had to be a part of it because it's the family situation, she was totally on board with it. Then she was on board to. Yeah. And the rule was as long as we had the rights to confirm the edits and there was nothing in there that we didn't want in there from whatever you want. Wow. Okay. Okay.

So now, can I show you something? Mm-hmm. This is good one. Okay. Well, it's always interesting to see how everyone reflects. This is a photo. Yeah. So take a look at this.

Do you remember that photo? of being this photo being taken. It's weird how, it's only now I look at it and if you look at my eyes, I just look so sad. When was our photo taken? This was taken after we'd filmed the first season and I think it was for like People magazine or TV Guide.

Come on, wrap TV guy. That's good. Yeah, and like, Like, I didn't have the concept of like, when someone took a picture of me, it would be so widely used. And it would be the gift that keeps on giving that I have to relook at for the rest of my life. And it was just like, you can clearly see, like, look at my brother's face, look at me, like, we had no idea what we were doing. Yeah. When I look at this photo, I see two kids that look like they have no clue how they got to where they are.

Exactly. Were you lost? I was not lost. I was just along for the ride. Okay. Because I never knew where it could take me. And I really enjoyed meeting the people that I met and the places that I got to go

and the opportunities it allowed me and the world I've been able to see as a result of it. I will never take that for granted. Okay, okay. Now, the Osbournes, from what I understand, certain episodes, or actually, you probably know the number is much better. Do you know that I've never watched all of them?

You never, have you watched any of them? Some of them, we started to do this series called Basement Takes. And we watched, I think, the first one and a half seasons. And I was like, oh, my God. I just kept looking at my parents being like, I'm so sorry. Really? I'm so sorry. Like, I was a fucking brat.

I get why people had the opinion of me that they did. But people couldn't see past that to the wounded child inside, if you know what I mean. Yes, I do. I do. And it, you know, I'm in AA, but I'm also in ACA, which is adult children of alcoholics. And it digs deeper into, it's a 12-set program as well, but it digs deeper into the inner child. And the things that happen led you to the belief system you have, which led you to your actions and your consequences.

Yes. And it started to make me realize, oh, that's why I felt that way, or that's why I did that, or that's how I ended up there. And you start to heal the inner child. And it's a lot, I will tell you, it's a lot. a lot harder than AA. I believe it. And you have to, and you start to learn to love your parents in a whole new way.

Yeah. Because prior to this mammoth show, right, which I saw some of the stats, eight million people watching. I mean, you think about eight million, who, nobody watched that on MTV? What shows gets, gets eight million people watching? You know, you think of some of the largest shows today, like Love Island, for example, it's not even that big. You know, so this was a mammoth show, mammoth show. And then on top of it, from what I understand is, so you had an addiction prior to the show. And you just escalated.

It just went up and up and up and up and up. So the day, the first day that the show comes out, what is that, what is that day like for you? Because your world must have changed. I woke up and I wanted to go to Tower Records. I can't even remember because the show came out on a Wednesday and usually new music came out on a Tuesday. And I wanted to go get a new CD. And I can't remember, I can't even remember which one it was.

But I was like, someone's following me. And I got really scared. And I called my manny Big Dave, who still works with us. And I was like, Dave, someone's following me. I don't know someone's going on. I had no idea that it was Pocorati. Why would they want to take a picture of me? Like, I didn't get it.

And I then very quickly realized that every single thing in my life was under a microscope. Everything. And how did you make that realization? Because I couldn't go anywhere without security anymore. I couldn't do anything without just people just. It was like, a mini form of Beatles mania, if I can put it that way. Like, we'd go to a hotel, and there'd be, like, hundreds of people waiting outside the hotel,

and they'd have to put velvet ropes out to keep people away so that other people staying in the hotel could come in and out. And, you know, I had fans. Like, I had people that, like, I get mess just to this day that... if I knew back then what I was doing to help like a subculture of women I would have felt so much better about myself like I get these letters all the time like when I was a kid like you were the only one like me and you gave me so much hope and that I could just be myself and I loved the way

that you dress and that you were so unapologetic and that you were so unapologetic and you stated what you felt. And, well, on one hand, I was being labeled a sport brat for it. The other hand was I was helping other people and women feel confident to be themselves. Right. But you didn't feel that way at the time. No, I didn't know. You didn't know.

You didn't know. Was it, but it must have been at points, many points, a dream. Like, it must have been fun. No, I will tell you, the first two seasons was a dream. It was amazing. Like, we got invited to everything. We got to do whatever we wanted. I mean, there wasn't a thing that was going on in the world that we were not invited to.

And people wanted us everywhere. And as I said, like, it was great. We got to meet incredible people. and travel the world and we had fun. But then the drug addiction got too much for me. And my mom got cancer. And the thought of losing my mom at that age and how sick she was and having to go through all of that on camera.

And it was just, it was awful. Like, it changed the whole trajectory of my life to a certain extent because I got the role as playing Lindsay Lohan's best friend in Freaky Friday. I went through the fittings. Everything was about to show up to first day of rehearsals. And I quit because I thought if my mom was going to die, I don't want to be sat here on a movie set all day. I want to be with my mom.

Goodness, how old were you at that time? 17? Yeah, yeah, your teen, yeah. And that would have, I mean, that would have changed the trajectory of my career and my life and where I went and what I did and what I would have been today. And, but I do believe I made the right choice. Yeah. I could see that one value that's remained consistent for you as family without question. That's something that you.

I've never been ashamed of my family. My family. We are not conventional, but we are honest. we you know I am like my father in the sense where I wear my heart at my sleeve I can't pretend I am who I am you love me or you hate me what my father did besides his music was create a place for the misfits the unwanted the unique the different the people who felt like they didn't belong, a place to belong. It wasn't just about the music.

It was a whole culture. I mean, Ozfest was insane. Yes. It was the most fun summer camp you could ever imagine being on. And it just, it was heavy metal at its finest. And it was, it allowed people to be themselves. and express themselves the way they want to express themselves because back then being goth in any way was considered like,

you're a devil worshiper. Right. And it just, it wasn't as accepted, but he brought all of these people together. And after he passed, I received so many letters from people who told me, you know, your dad made me believe that I could do it too and made me believe that I was good enough and that there was a place for me

and that's how I want to continue his legacy by creating spaces like that. Yes. And I can see that you got that earnestly from your father because when I reflect back and think about you as a teenager, at least, you know, from the outside looking in, is I always thought you were highly confident in your individuality. Yes.

Right? When it came to what beauty was, I was not confident. You were not. But your view of yourself was what? Dad didn't deserve it and that I was ugly. Can we unpack both of those? Yes. Let's start with I didn't deserve it.

I've always watched my parents work so hard. And all I did was sit there. and let someone film me, just being myself. I didn't consider it work. It wasn't until I started my musical career and my own TV products and having bosses and HR and all that kind of stuff that I started to realize, you know, like the difference in work. And I've always, I am quite a workaholic.

I don't feel like I have enough purpose if I don't have a reason to get up out of bed every day and someone to answer to. Right. And, you know, since having my baby, losing my father and my mind. I'm finally back in a place where I'm like, okay, I'm ready to be the me that I truly am.

Like, I do not think I am ugly. I do not think I am fat. I do not think I am worthless. I know my value. I think it's now my time to shine and not have to toe the family line if you know what I'm saying. Yes.

Yes. Because you felt like you've had to tote that the entirety of your life. The entirety of my life has always been families first. And there's a pecking order. And I don't want that anymore. I just want to do what I want to do. Yes, yes. And so I can understand now when you say as a teenager, you didn't feel deserving.

of it. And then you also mentioned you didn't feel beautiful. So help me with that because you are by the public stand. Well, correct me if I'm wrong here, is that there's a lot of demand for you. There's a lot of desirability for you at that time. People are absolutely obsessed with my physical appearance in a way that I don't understand, and I don't understand why me. Because as I said to you before, it's not like I put myself out there

like, I'm a sexy girl or I'm a supermodel or, you know, like, I've always just been me. Right. So why are you trying to make me out to not be good enough to be that when I've never tried to be that? It doesn't, it never, it never made sense to me. So as a teenager, you're then what, reading articles about. I couldn't read them. You couldn't read them. But articles were coming out.

Mm-hmm. And they were horrible. And mostly then about how you looked. Yeah. They still are. Why do you think there is an obsession specifically with your weight? I have no idea. I wish I knew the answer to that question because I don't get it.

It's like I'm not allowed to be skinny or I'm not allowed to be pretty or I'm not allowed to, like the accusations of plastic surgery and the accusations of, you know, weight loss jabs and everything. like that. Like I am full transparency about what I have and have not done. I don't have anything to hide. And I also don't think that there's no shame in the game. Like if you want to look a certain way, go ahead.

Go be you. Yeah. Why is there such like animosity towards the fat jab or getting a nose job or getting your boobs enlargent or smaller or whatever it is?

If it makes you you feel more comfortable and you feel more beautiful, why should anyone else have a problem with it? Right. And without question with the guests that I speak with is disproportionately this judgment is happening at women disproportionately. Oh, it's just always, you will never read an article in the Daily Mail that says, let's say it's Hugh Grant. Hugh Grant did blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If it was me, it would be Kelly Osborne, 41. Yes.

Yes, you're right. Age will be in there. The age will be in there. And then they'll say something about my body. Yes. But they don't do that to men. Yeah. But I'm trying to understand why you were pinpointed.

Even in the research, I was thinking, what's the reason? I still don't understand it. Yeah. I still don't understand it. Well, maybe because, like, when you look at other people, like rock stars, daughters, like, you've got, like, Liv Tyler, who's, like, gorgeous. And, like, all these different musicians' daughters who've, who've ended up being models and I wasn't.

This is interesting, Kelly. That's interesting. That wasn't me. And I think that that was a bit baffling for them. But I didn't want to be that. No. Do you think there's part, and this is just me thinking out loud now is, because this is really interesting, what you're saying to me,

I could see this. And I think there also could be this. And then what makes her think that she's all that? Exactly. You know what I mean? Exactly. You know? Because the truth is, I fucking was.

Yes. I was. Yes. And some. Yes. I just wasn't the same as everyone else. Yes. Yeah.

And that's why so many people adored you, like my wife. You know what I mean? Truly. This really, you don't know what this means to me this letter. I will, I will tell her. And I'm definitely coming over for lunch. Okay. All right.

And you'll meet Peter Gabriel, too. Yeah. Just a heads up. This next part includes discussion of suicide. If you or someone you know need support, we've included resources in the show notes. Please take care while watching. Now, you mentioned also something that we have to talk about is you said the addiction then. It then became even more, specifically right around the time when your mother had the cancer died.

My mom had cancer. Yeah. So with the addiction, was your mother, was your father, was your brother, were they aware? No. I mean, maybe, but we were all going through our own personal health. What about, because you're filming at this time as well. Yeah, I mean, there was a couple of crew members that got fired because they refused to film my father in the state he was in.

Um, they, you know, it was, it was rough. And I was looking, looking around my house thinking, My dad is so bad right now and my mom is so sick right now. If my mom dies, I'm going to fucking kill myself because I can't live like this. Like, this is too much. Did you genuinely consider taking your life? It was a thought. I suffer from SI, which is suicidal ideations, and I had no idea until I was in my 30s that that was not normal.

And it was something where, like, I was. I truly believed that I wasn't good enough that whenever anything bad happened, the first thought was, kill yourself. And I'm like, it wasn't until I got properly diagnosed with what that was

and given the right literature and therapy and explanation and everything that came along with being diagnosed with that and being put on the right medication. Like, I never have a thought like that now, ever. But it was like, a daily thing for me, my entire life. I thought everyone thought that. Wow. Okay.

I didn't know that that wasn't normal. Okay. So you have this ideation going on compounded with the addiction. And depression and anxiety and ADHD and dyslexia. I mean, I've got all of it. OCD. I mean, I also have C-P-T-S-D and it's just, you know, I've been through it. a lot for one person.

Absolutely. For many people. For many people. And I'm now seeing a house in turmoil. You know, what was the reason why you all decided to end the series? Because from what I understand it is it was super successful. It was still, it was like, we, because the thing is, there's nowhere to go, but down. And we wanted to end on a high.

And we wanted to have our lives back. And I wanted to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. And that took me a minute. And it's only just now in my 40s that I feel like I'm free to do that. Okay. And it's, you know, because there are some people that still see me as that 16-year-old. And I'm like, wait, I'm like, they really do not believe that I am the age that I am. And half of me is like, ha-huh, that's great.

I'll take it. I'll take it. And the other half is like, but come on, like, people grow up. Right. People change. Right. Life happens. Yeah.

And that project, I mean, that show is so larger than life. I think that's what throws everyone. Everyone go, they hear your name. They go back to that time. But even in doing the research for you coming in, what I had no idea is from that moment to now, you have been working. I've never not worked. You, I mean, the credits are just, I mean, just the shows, the projects, it is dozens

upon dozens upon dozens upon dozens of projects. So when you look across where you're trying to figure your way, right, what were you discovering about yourself as you would take on new projects? Like, I remember watching a fashion police. I thought you were fabulous on that. Yeah, I thought you fabulous. So it was the best working years of my life was with Joan Rivers and getting to be her little apprentice

and having the honour of sitting next to her and working with her every day and talking to her every day and learning from her every day. I mean, it was incredible. She was such a vital part of who helped me become who I am today. Yes. And I miss her. The world became a non-funny place when she left.

I can imagine with Joan Rivers, I can imagine that she must have commanded the space that she was in. But people didn't realize how generous and how respectful and how grateful and how grateful and how well she treated everybody. and she'd always say before we, she'd always hold my hand and she'd say, honeybee, look how lucky we are. And then we'd start the show. That's how we'll start.

All these people are here because we get to do this. And she never took anything for granted. That's a great lesson. It's a great lesson. So as you're having these experiences with these incredible people, What are you discovering about yourself? But I'm good enough on my own. Yeah.

I don't need to just be as a husband's daughter. I'm my own person. I, I, with them I'm great. Without them, I'm great. I can do it on my own. Yes. And I've never relied upon them for that. I just went out and did my own thing.

That's how I felt. I felt like you could see confident. right your assurance in your skill set was just growing and growing and growing and now it's got to a point where I'm like I am so sick of everyone else controlling the narrative of me I get to say who I am you don't and if I fuck up I'll own it

and we move on yes yes so who is Kelly Osborne today Losing my father, it has taught me that there is such an honour in grief because I loved somebody, I was capable, I am capable of loving someone so much that I lost my mind. I was a shell of myself. I couldn't speak.

I couldn't eat. I couldn't do anything. I was just empty. Broken in every way a human being could possibly be broken. And completely enabled to even take care of myself. I was at ground zero. I started drinking again. I lost my mind.

I couldn't handle it. But I can honestly say today, I'm eight months sober. I have the most incredible people around me. I closed my circle because I lost a lot of friends. Because people don't like sadness. And they expected me to be over it. And I will never be over it.

I'll never, ever be over it. Are you comfortable with us talking in detail about the relationship with you and your father? because, you know, what I find, I tell you, I think you will appreciate this is when I was coming in today, right? See, the whole house was excited about you, Kelly. It wasn't only my wife. I asked my son, who's 12 years old, Liam, I said, have you ever heard of Ozzy Osbourne? And you know what he said? He said, yeah, yeah, I have.

He's that guy. He's that rocker guy. and a dad. So at 12, my son says, okay, I know of this guy, he's a rocker and he's a dad. Yeah. That was profound to me. Yeah.

Very, very, it hit me deep because that's actually how I always saw your father as this incredible musician, but always a dad. He was. And I want to show you this. And I want you to tell me, in this, here it is, what is the first thought that comes to mind when you see this? Give that to you.

He smelled his fibroclog shadow on my cheek. And how safe I felt whenever he gave me a cuddle. I knew that if he was in, nothing bad would happen. He'd always make me laugh. I remember where this picture was taken as well. I was never an adult in my dad. I was always... Hold on, that for you.

You know, he always treated him. I was still his baby. But, like, I told him everything. We were very, very, very, very close. We had a different relationship than he had with his other children. And sometimes that made my life. very difficult. But he always

hurt my pride, always, always. Definitely, from the outside looking in, it appeared as if there was a unique relationship that you and your father had. It was, I, the only way that I can explain it to is

I'm the female version of him in personality-wise. I got all his good things, and I got all those bad things too. but we were just so similar he taught me what unconditional love was I consider myself so lucky because I have so many friends that just don't have that

with their dads I know he like the love he had with my mother there was nothing like that they set a standard that I don't think I will ever be able to reach do you know what I mean like that that love is magic that love is what movies are made of like it's it's insane their story they're what they've been through together what

they you know how much like they just they didn't do anything without each other you know like he couldn't survive without her she couldn't survive without him but here she is without him and I have to check in on how is she doing how is she How is she getting by? She's getting a little bit stronger every day. I will say night times are the worst for her, because that was their favorite time of day. They'd just talk about everything they did that day

and catch up and watch whatever they wanted on telly and after spending 50 years of your life side by side with someone to know there being an empty space I can't even imagine how painful that is but she's getting through she's a lot stronger than anyone can ever give her credit for yes and

there are so many people that love her and are there for her and me being one of them whatever like my dream for my mum I'm like sell everything get your dream

Homehouse. Buy whatever you want to buy yourself. Go wherever you want to go in this world and have a good time. Stop working. What are you working for? It's your time now. Have fun. It go and do whatever you want to do. What makes you happy? Be around the people that make you laugh. Stop worrying about us. We are our own responsibility now. We're all in our 40s. It is not up to you to save us from anything. Go live your life. You deserve it. Like, she deserves it more than anybody I know. And I wish that for her. I hope that she gets there.

Yes. Yes. But, you know, as a mom, Mm-hmm. You'll always be thinking about your children. That's true. That she can be selfish, too. Yes.

Yes. Well, let's hope that she is. Send her my love. I will do she loves you. I really adore your mom. Something that I set off camera, but I just want to say on is that many years ago I was on the talk and your mother was one of the hosts of the talk. And she truly helped me. And she was kind to me when she didn't have to be. She mama bared you. She mama bared me. And she was able to allow me to become more confident. to myself in the moment. And I'll never forget that.

What I find really interesting about someone who's super successful. So your father, at the end of the day, is one of the most famous musicians that's ever walked this earth, you know, incredibly talented, an incredibly hard worker, right? I've read about his work regime. and you often hear the stories about men who are uberly successful who in essence prioritized their work over their family. It was the opposite. Exactly.

It didn't. Family came first. Yeah. It always felt that way. That's why we were always there. That's why I grew up on tour. That's why we were a unit. What do you think allowed him to want?

to live his life that way. I think my mom had a lot to do with it. You know, my mom was his manager as well, so she had to be there too. And she didn't want us to be raised by nannies. They wanted to raise us. So along we went. And it was just, as I say, a different time.

But it was amazing. and like just I'm grateful for every second, every moment, every hardship. You know, even when it was bad, I'm grateful for it because he was my dad. Yes. What did you learn through the bad times? Because you've mentioned, you know, you've been here in this conversation, the challenge that your father had with addiction. And you think that you might have even.

gotten that gene from him. So I'm sure that you've seen him in some terrible positions. What did you learn about addiction and pain in the tough times as you observed and you lived those with him? So he was like me. He wasn't, he ended up becoming the wild man as a result of it. But it was to numb the pain. the insecurity, the constant thought of not being good enough. Like, there were times where there would be like 50,000 people waiting for him to go on stage

and he'd be like, did anyone show up? Oh, wow. And we'd be like, are you fucking nuts? There's 50,000 people out there. They're all here for you. The concept of his own fame never, ever, ever truly hit him. His final show. Up until the day he died, he said,

I just can't believe people like me that much. I didn't know people like me that much. And we'd be like, what do you get about it? Like, you are you? And he's like, but he never left Aston. He was always that working class hero from Birmingham. he never thought he was better than anyone else. That's fascinating.

It's fascinating. When you saw him get the star, the Walk of Fame, that's a moment where a lot of people feel like, okay, I've made it. Yeah. How did he respond to it? He was so excited. He was so happy about that. He couldn't believe it.

And it was so cool. And it was back when it really meant something. You know what I mean? Right now, I mean, I feel like you could just pay for one. I could probably fucking get one. But it's, it was back when it really meant something still. Yeah. And it was right before, I want to say,

just around the time of his 50th birthday. And it was just like the icing on the cake for him, like that he was on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. And like that he had really made it. And it was like that when he met the queen as well. Really? Yeah. You couldn't believe he met the Queen.

And there's a really funny story because Kermit the Frog was like trying to figure out who shoulder he wanted to be on. And you will see that he ended up on my dad's shoulder. And it's Kermit the Frog, my dad and the Queen. And it's just the funniest picture. And you look at his face. And I think I remember him saying, it's nice to meet you, your royal majestiveness. Because he got nervous and didn't know what. say.

That's so good. That's so good. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, one thing that I could see even with you telling these stories is in those moments, just, you know, no cameras, nothing. It seems like there was a lot of laughter.

Oh, he's the funniest man you've ever met in your life. Right. Because you think he doesn't hear anything. You think he doesn't see anything, but he saw everything. And let me tell you this. My dad knew he was going out. He knew he went out exactly the way he wanted to. And he was prepping me along the way.

He was. And everything he told me would happen has happened. Everything he warned me of, every person he told me to stay away from, everything. And I was just like, wow, like you really. but he didn't miss a bead, did you? Yeah. And the one,

one but the most meaningful thing he ever said to me is that he sat me down and this was about three days before he died. He says, Tots, and I said, yes, Dada.

He's like, I need you to know something. I said, what? He goes, no matter what happens in this life, you can live the rest of your life knowing that there was one man on this planet that truly loved you, that truly loved you for every single thing you are, and that my man is me. And I started to cry and I said, please don't talk

like this, please don't talk with this. Because he said, you know, I'm not going to be here forever. And I know you struggle with people and actually believing that you are loved. But I loved you more than anyone. And three days later, he was gone. I have these chills that keep coming over my body. Because as a parent, I can't imagine what it's like to have to sit in your parents. And I can't imagine what that must feel like to know you have to prepare your child for that, for that moment.

I have to preface the story with my mom. allowed him to die the happiest I'd ever seen it all he wanted before he left this planet was one last show one more time to be able

to let his fans know how grateful he was for the life that they allowed him to have and how much he loved them and to say goodbye and my mom worked our stuff to make that happen and it was one of the most incredible moment in music history

there'll never be anything like that again I mean in my eyes in the world of rock and roll out lives even Woodstock because it it was all the people that got to be who they are

because of him coming to pay tribute to him and he got to say goodbye and he got to say thank you and that's all he wanted it and then you let go shortly thereafter so that was that was the one two weeks after

they told him if you do this show you'll die really and he chose to do it anyway because it meant more to him in anything and he was suffering so much his day to day life it was insufferable

like it wasn't nobody should have to live like that to be in that much pain and be unable to walk and like your mind is all there but your body just doesn't work

so this is the Parkinson's Parkinson's and the the botches surgery they did on his neck. Okay. And the surgery came about... Because he fell out of bed and broke his neck. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. And so you mentioned that your mother had to make all of this happen. And your mother is really someone who I'd love to spend some time. She's incredible. She's like a superhero. You know, what I look outside in, once again, is... I'm a big fan of your mother.

Big, big, big fan of your mother. Just don't piss her off. Yeah, I was going to say, I've heard your mother does some wild things. Oh, yeah. To people that she's upset about. All right, so is this, all right, we have to go there there. Okay. Is this rumor or fact?

Go on. If you piss off your mom to a certain degree, she will send you a Tiffany box with a special gift inside. This was in like the 80s and 90s. And when the party came out, we knew that somebody had pissed mom off and she'd make us sit there until we pooped. Oh, it was yours? Yeah. Are you serious? Yes.

And then she would put it in a Tiffany box, have it wrapped up and deliver it messaged as if it was from Tiffany's to whoever it would be and it would be a shit in a Tiffany box. That is, that's wild. that it was yours too. It was at the minor drag, yeah. That's wild. But to me, though, what I love about that is there's a like mama bear fierceness that says, don't mess with mine, you know. But when I think back to the Osbournes, though, I just remember you and your mom just yelling at each other. Was that a true depiction of the relationship early on?

I mean early on, yeah, because I was like defiant and thought I knew everything. I mean, I had my baby and my baby was not on me, my chest, doing skin for more than maybe three seconds. And I just looked over at my mom and I mouth the words, I'm sorry. Because it was like the speed of light, all of these thoughts just came to my head. And I was just like, I put my mom through her. I get it now. And she was like, well, she's looking at me like, I'm nuts.

Because I'm crying and looking at her and molly the words, I'm sorry. But it was just like everything made sense in that instant. Yeah, yeah. Isn't it something you've already mentioned this too, is that as we get older, we realize our parents were always right. Oh, I know it's so annoying, but it's true. It's so annoying, but it's true. Yeah, it's like they were right.

And we should have just listened. We should have just listened. So this whole time you're telling your mom, no, you're wrong, right? I don't do that anymore. Yeah, but then. But also, too, is with your mother, so your mother was your father's manager. And is that how their relationship started as well? Pretty much, yeah.

Okay. So no, so my mother's father was my dad's original manager. And when he got fired from Black Sabbath, my mom had to go and take him the paper work and found him in a hotel and he was a mess. But she saw the talent in him and she couldn't leave him the way he was. And so she said to him, I'll take you on and let's see what we can do. And she helped create his whole career. Look at that.

And then when they found out that my mother's father was stealing from my dad, they had to leave. They left with two suitcases and nothing and had to start all over again. Look at that. No money. And they did it. They built it from the ground up. Okay. Did they ever tell you at what point they fell in love?

My mom's best friend did. She was the first time they kissed. It was at the Roxy on sunset. And to this day, she's still not my mom's best friend, her name's Belle, and she was a waitress there, and then she became a big Hollywood agent. And originally my mom tried to hook my dad up with Bell, and then Bell was like, nah, I think you two have got something going on.

And it just happened. Yeah. I think it's so beautiful when something just happens. It's meant to be against all forces, especially knowing that they had no money, right? They had to build from the ground. And my grandfather was a scary man, let me tell you. Like a very, very scary man.

I didn't even know he existed until I was 13. Really? Yeah. Didn't have no idea. Okay. Okay. So therefore, and I mean, not to, to, to go too deep on your, but your grandfather was...

Dawn Arden. The original music mogul of the United Kingdom, but like mob style. Hanging people off of the roof of buildings until they give him what he wants, kind of thing. Okay. Friends with the Grey Twins, all of that situation crowd. Okay. I see. I see.

All right. And I mean, now, now I'm actually seeing your father in a different light because he had to succeed with that opposition. With the opposition of Black Sabbaths going out on their own with a new singer, with the opposition of going against the only thing he ever knew, starting fresh. and finding it within himself to believe that he could do it. And I think that that was because of my mom.

Yeah, look at that. That gives me a whole new perspective on their love, your father. I mean, you'll never see it. Like, you know, people talk about twin flames and soulmates and true love. Yes. That's what they had. Yes. Your mother managed anyone prior to that.

Yeah. Okay. She'd been managing ELO and the band called The Choir Boys and smashing pumpkins. Okay. Like, she managed quite a few people. I mean, I'm probably listening just like a few of them. But, yeah. Okay, okay.

So then with your mother and father together, as a business partnership, as a romantic partnership, They became formidable, right? But then through the years, I saw that your mother really became a brand within herself. Exactly. And so how did the family balance that? Because your mother became quite famous. In her own right.

In her own right. I'll be really honestly. At first, I don't think my dad liked it very much because he was always the number one. But then I think he learned to love how much people loved my mom as much as he did. Okay. And that they recognized her greatness too. And he begun to become very proud of her. Because, you know, I don't think my mom ever saw herself in the spotlight.

And then all of a sudden she was. That's so interesting. She was always the behind-the-scenes woman that built the stage that he performed on. You know what I'm saying? Yes. And then they shared it. So as that's happening, you and Jack, right, or obviously, your stardom is rising. Now, Jack, we haven't spent, I think, given him his due.

Jack is someone who, it's interesting. I resonated, I think probably being boys, I resonated with Jack, right? And to me, there was something super lovable, you know, like, uberly lovable about Jack. But I understand Jack has gone through his challenges as well, also having multiple sclerosis. And so how have you, as his sister, someone who many people thought was his twin at a certain point, You spend so much of your life together. How have you been able to balance the relationship, knowing the challenges that he's gone through,

in particular health challenges that he's gone through? Jackie's will never let you know if he's going through a health challenge. Like, I've learned to see the signs. Like, I'll see one over the eyes going like this. And I'm like, oh, he's stressed. Something's going on. but he leads a very, very healthy life. He is incredibly dedicated to his children.

Me living here now and choosing to separate myself a little and kind of rediscover myself. It's not like it's caused a wedge between us, but I would say that the family's a little bit upset that I have decided to go home and figure out me for a while. And I get it because, like, I don't want to miss out on anything that my nieces are doing, but I also am a mother and I have my own responsibilities and my own life to live. and I'm taking this time to be a bit selfish.

Okay. Okay. So this is the era of selfishness. But appropriate selfishness. Yeah. You know, how do you, one area that we have to talk about, and I'm wondering, how do you, how do you manage this, is motherhood? I don't, I'm telling you, I deserve an Oscar.

Because I, if I'm ever crying, and my son sees me. I explained to him that I miss, I miss Papa. And he knows how much Papa meant to me. And he, Papa meant a lot to him. He walks out there every day to say hello to him. Does he? Mm-hmm.

And leave a flower or a feather or something he's found in the garden. And he talks to him and he'll sing to him. And he'll tell him stories. And it's, it's beautiful. But to go through this and realize that I have to go through this, but I have to put him first. Your son? My son first. Yeah.

You know, you get really good at acting. You get really good at quick cries in the bathroom with the door closed and then wipe the tears away and take a deep breath and go back into play mode. Because he's too young to feel those feelings. What is your son? taught you, you know, about life, you know, because I was, I think that the greatest, it's so interesting because you look at, we're, you know, depending on where you look, fewer people are having children, right? I just want more.

Yeah, it's exact. It's like. It's the most, it's the best thing in the fucking world. And everyone I say to my friends that haven't had kids yet, I'm like, you're missing out. It's all. You don't understand purpose. You don't understand. patience, you don't understand love until you've had a kid.

Yes. Do you have a reason? It gave me such purpose. It gave me such an, I mean, I'm getting goosebumps talking about it. Like, I always wanted to be a mom. Okay, you've always wanted me. Mm-hmm. Okay.

But I never realized how fulfilling being a mother would be. I never realized I was even, that I could feel like that. I think also we were talking about this when you walked in is he looks an awful lot like your dad. I look a lot like my dad and I think that he he looks a lot like my dad. He's got my dad smile and it's one of my greatest joys

that I get to see my dad smile every day. Yeah, yeah. His naughty little munchkin face. Yeah, it's good. It's good. How do you then believe that you're going to manage these conversations around addiction? I have to be very open with my child from an age where I believe it is appropriate to start talking about. Okay. Okay. Because, first of all, I believe that everyone should be in some form of 12-step program, whether it's addiction or not.

It just gives you a guideline to be a better person. So with this, this is a topic that you will. brooch at the appropriate time with him. We're not there yet, thank God. You know? But I am fully prepared for when he is because I have to be honest with him. My father was always honest with me. Always.

Yeah. It seems like you grew up with a very high level of transparency. And I can see the benefit. And actually that's something that my wife and I, what we try to do with our boys is lead with transparency. You have to. Yeah. Because otherwise they're going to find out from someone else who's not going to tell them the way that you think that they should hear it.

And it's just you don't get to control the narrative if you know what I mean. Exactly. Exactly. And I think as parents who have been there done it, we can advise. And look, I won't deny. I had some great times on drugs. But they only led to more pain, sorrow and misery. Mm.

I don't, you know, I have a reason. I have a son and he means more to me than anything in the world and there's nothing that is going to stop me from being the best mother I can be to him there you go. Sounds like a mother in love? I have one more photo you're going to like this. Okay. One more photo

hold on you can't look, can't look okay ready? This is a surprise I want you to we have to We have to give her her space. Miss Dolly. I didn't realize the relationship that you had with Dolly Parton. Would you be open to talking about?

Yeah. I mean, first of all, huge fan my whole entire life. I truly believe that she paved the way for women to be whoever they want to be. She wore what she wanted and she broke down doors while wearing high heels. You know what I'm saying? She, her philanthropy, she gave back more than she, like, received, like, received, if you know what I mean, like what she did for literacy, what she's done for the black community in America, what she's done for families that can't afford the cost of living, like, it just goes on and on and on and on the amount of people's lives she's changed because. She wanted to. Like, I can't think of very many people who were born into this world and left it a better place than they found it.

But Dolly Partonshaw did. And I had the honor of working with her a couple times. We have the same management, and it's just, she was honestly one of the country. honestly, one of the kind, you know when you say don't meet your idols? Yes. I say that unless it was Ozzy, I was born or Dolly Parton, because they were who they said they were. I mean, she looked after everyone, and if you ever got the opportunity to see the inner workings of how it all went down in Nashville and how every member of her family had a job, whether it would be part of her security, design team, whatever it was, like, she made sure everybody was taking care of. I don't think I've ever met a more generous human being in my life.

And it was true what she said about being a billionaire. Which is what? I'm trying to remember exactly. It was something like if you're a billionaire, then you're doing it wrong. Okay. Because nobody needs that much money. I mean, I knew her work schedule. Like, she'd wake up at 4 in the morning.

She'd spend two hours writing every day. Really? Mm-hmm. Okay. do her morning like little routine and work out and phone calls and then do what work she had planned for that day and family always came first and she just she just was like

it was like being in the presence of an angel if you were around her yes yes she seemed very angel Oh, she was amazing. You know, I know that she was really short, wasn't she? She was a little petite thing. A little petite thing. Is it true?

I think she said this once, but I don't know if this was just misinterpreted, that she would go to sleep with her makeup on. Yeah. Really? She didn't have makeup artist. She did her own makeup. Did she? Yeah. But we did share the same hairdresser.

Okay. Okay. All right. Fair enough. And it's interesting because I don't know much about. about, say, her music, some of her acting, right? I mean, nine to five, like, every- I'm sorry, I'm like, all her acting stuff is great.

I'm like, masterpieces. Right, but I, so those pieces I don't know a lot about, but you know what, when it comes to philanthropy, that's what I know her for. It's insane, right? Yeah, that's what I know her for, yeah. The fact that you can get one free book for your child, I think it's like a week or a month, or I can't remember,

but it's been millions of books. She's improved the literacy of children throughout America in a way that nobody has ever been capable of doing. Polly Parton. Is she rest in peace? Yeah. I'll hold on to that one. Thank you.

Thank you. For sure, that. So now, Kelly, we've been talking for quite some time. We've covered many, many topics. Yeah. It's now the new chapter. Mm-hmm. No, this feels like a new book.

The new book, the new book of Kelly Osborne. Yeah. Right. I cannot wait to see what it holds for you. There's going to be a lot of fun. I'm doing a three-part series documentary on grief and mental health. Okay. I'm going to do a new reality show.

Are you? U.S. UK? UK. U.K. Of course. Of course. But it will be worldwide. I am finally going to start my fashion brand again.

Okay. I want to go into beauty products like my makeup, but I want it to be makeup for everyone because I don't believe that it's just women that you wake up. Men deserve to feel pretty too. There you go. Hit us. We need it.

You know what I'm saying? You need a bit of under eye concealer when you need it. You know what I'm saying? You need to deshine when you want to. Can I say my favorite product right now is, I'm not going to say the brand because they're not sending me it up.

But it is a de-matifying, like it's a moisturizer, it de-manifies. Yeah. It's like, we need this. It's not fair. Why is it a, why is it a faux par

that men take care of themselves? That's what I'm saying. Come on. Hit me. It's like, yes. And my whole thing is I will never, ever,

ever, ever, ever create something that is not for everyone. It has to be cost effective in a way that is obtainable for everyone. I am not snooty. I'm not going to go and do a control brand. I'm not going to have the price point be unobtainable. It's for everyone. Perfect time then for me to ask you the final question. Go on. Everyone gets it. Okay. I cannot wait to hear your answer. No, I'm scared. No, this is a good one. This is a really good one. Okay.

So you've had some incredible conversations throughout your life. When you think about the most memorable, who was that conversation with and what did you learn? My dad. And I learned unconditional love. That's all I can say. That's fair. And honesty. Because he never learned to me.

And I will keep his secrets till the day I die. Because he told me things nowhere else in the family knows. And I'll never tell because that was between me and him. You know, I have to say this is for someone myself who I've watched, and I've watched you through the years, but only through the landscape of TV and narratives. And mistakes. And, I mean, I've read the headlines. I've read the good and the bad and the indifferent.

And the ugly. And the ugly, right? I've read them all. And I will say that I am, I feel honored to have spent this time with you, truly. Really? I feel honored to have. You, you know, you said, don't meet your idols, right? You're someone who I've looked up to for a variety of reasons, and I'm walking away.

truly honored, truly feeling blessed to have spent this time with you. Truly. Truly. Thank you. Yeah. Truly. And the, and Kelly, what stands out to me most is you know what unconditional love feels like. You know what it means.

I see how you extend it to people in your life. And I want to encourage you to continue to do that. I don't think I'll ever stop. And one thing that I definitely want you to know is there are an endless number of people who feel like I do, who feel like my wife does, who have adored you from the outside. And no matter what the comments were, no matter what the crazy headline was, no matter what the ugly commentary was, still loved you unconditionally. So always remember that. And of course you would call me an asshole.

I didn't think you were going to be... Truly, truly, truly, truly. I didn't know if I'd be able to get through this interview. I didn't know, but I just put my faith in you because I think that what you do is so great and how you let people speak for themselves and it was such an honor to spend this time with you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. That concludes. Come on, come on, come on. Yeah, thank you so much. I'll tell you where I truly resonated with Kelly is when she said what the passing of a loved one will do to you is it will change you. And there will be a version of you that you leave with that person that you'll never get again. and even though what she's saying may sound harsh to anyone who's not lost loved one, it's fact, and I've been there.

And I want us as a society to have more conversation, more honest conversation about death and about grief. Because when we do, we're able to actually reconcile and manage it better than living in a land of myth, many people might forget that she was a little girl who, to her own words, was not lost, but she was just along for the ride and was hurt and was an addict. And that was before fame. So think about then what fame, extreme fame, does to you. And a mentor used to always tell me that all of us, what we share in common is that we're either all heading to a storm, don't know it, or coming out of a storm. And the most important thing is if you're coming out of the storm to realize it, because that

way you can count your blessing. Kelly Osborne is someone who is coming out of a storm. She realizes it, and she's counting her blessing. And it was just an honor to be able to share this moment with her. You became incredibly famous for pretending to be famous on Big Brother. But today, you are under threat. Yes, this has been a big deal for me to come here today. Can you take us to that storm? It was a celebrity Big Brother, but I was the only non-celebrity, and had to pretend to be a celebrity as well.

Big Brother has called Chantel to the diary room. So now you meet someone named Preston. Yes. Did you truly fall in love in the Big Brother house? We should never have got married. There was a moment where he walks out. Can you take me back to this moment? So we're on this crazy ride.

I walked into Big Brother with 80 pence in my bank account. And then next thing, I have one million pounds and like shaking Prince Charles' hand. Really? But I was just so lonely. I don't know what I'm getting upset. God, I hate admitting this because not a lot of people know this, but...

How does that make you feel? I'm not the girl that was in Big Brother. That version of me is gone, you know? For me, it was the lies and the manipulation. It destroyed me in every single way possible. So why is it that you wanted to talk today and why now? For many years, I stayed silent about what I was going through and I don't want to hide anymore.