We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Kerry Katona Part 2: I Went From £400K a Year to Bankrupt! Why I Had To Turn to ØnlyFans

Episode Date: September 9, 2025

Kerry Katona opens up about some of the most shocking and transformative moments of her life in the spotlight. From turbulent relationships and public scandals to finding love again, Kerry shares the truth behind the headlines. In part 2 of her raw and unfiltered conversation, Kerry speaks candidly about the chaos of her marriages, her infamous appearance on This Morning, and the devastating impact of addiction on her family. She reflects on the abuse she endured in her relationship with George, the trauma of his passing, and how she rebuilt herself in the aftermath. Kerry also reveals the reality of her financial struggles and why she turned to OnlyFans, before sharing the unexpected love story that unfolded on Celebs Go Dating with Paolo, and what it’s like navigating a relationship under the glare of the media. Kerry shares: ◽ How her relationship with Mark began and ended in heartbreak ◽ The media’s betrayal and stories sold at her expense ◽ The home invasion that shook her family to its core ◽ The moment she realised she needed to end her addiction ◽ The painful truth of her marriage to George and his tragic passing ◽ Her experience of bankruptcy and finding new ways to survive ◽ How she found love again with Paolo on Celebs Go Dating despite the age gap ◽ Her hopes for the future and what’s next for her career Kerry Katona, We Need To Talk, again! This episode includes some difficult conversations. If you’re impacted, we recommend the support charities below:Survivor's Trust: https://g2ul0.app.link/yh0NrvNsvTb      Refuge: https://g2ul0.app.link/td2zqEPpGTb  CALM: https://g2ul0.app.link/uULaUXcM3Nb  MIND: https://g2ul0.app.link/gbuRaxjM3Nb Follow me here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk  https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod Support Kerry here:Instagram: https://g2ul0.app.link/otKjdok9cWb  TikTok: https://g2ul0.app.link/391l8Vg9cWb Kerry & Katie’s Tour: https://g2ul0.app.link/6dGc2te9cWb Mamma Mia Tour: https://g2ul0.app.link/ubKU5P88cWb  (00:00) Intro (02:20) How Did Kerry's Relationship with Mark Begin? (07:00) Stories Sold to the Papers About Kerry (11:57) Kerry's Experience of Home Invasion (16:52) Kerry's Infamous Appearance on This Morning (27:36) Kerry's Wedding to Mark (29:29) Kerry's Epiphany About Her Drug Taking and the End of Her Relationship with Mark (35:00) Kerry's Difficult Conversation with Her Children About Her Public Image (39:06) Adobe Express Ad (40:21) Tinder Ad (41:22) How Kerry Entered into Her Relationship with George (46:17) George's Abusive Behaviour During Their Marriage (52:55) George's Psychotic Break (57:31) George's Passing and How It Affected Kerry (01:01:37) The Double Standard Between Genders in Showbiz (01:03:36) Treatwell Ad (01:04:37) How Kerry Met Ryan (01:07:57) Kerry's Various Bankruptcies (01:11:54) How Kerry Got into Doing OnlyFans Content (01:14:53) How Did Kerry's Relationship with Ryan End? (01:16:15) Kerry's Experience of 'Celebs Go Dating' and Meeting Paolo (01:20:56) Kerry's Feelings on the 11 Year Age Gap Between Her and Paolo (01:22:12) How Kerry's Feelings for Paolo Developed Over the Course of Shooting 'Celebs Go Dating' (01:28:20) How the Media Will Portray Kerry and Paolo's Relationship (01:31:58) Kerry's Biggest Takeaway from 'Celebs Go Dating' (01:35:06) Kerry's Upcoming Projects (01:36:34) Most Memorable Conversation (01:40:11) Paul's Takeaways Sponsored by: Adobe Express: https://ADOBE.LY/PAUL Tinder: https://tinder.com/en-GB Treatwell: http://Treatwell.co.uk with code PAUL20 - T&Cs apply Get Your Tickets to the Love Better Tour: https://bit.ly/lovebetter-YT  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Restrictions apply. The news at world had a headline ready to go. Kerry found out. That's what they wanted. As this is happening, there's an attack. These three men come in balaclavas and a carb in knife. I cannot believe you're still here. Everybody. Episode two.

Have we got a sleeping baggie yet? If I'm honest now, you don't seem right to me sitting here now. Absolutely fine. I've literally just got here. The host we're alluding to is that you were on some form of drug. I've got no reason to lie. Clearly they put you on the spot in front of millions of people. Did they say anything to you off camera? How do you and Mark separate?

I had an affair. Best thing ever did. It was like someone giving you glasses for the first time I'm just going wow If I had to stay with Mark and I probably would have died George was a very very very very twisted soul So many demons And you could get rough in different ways as well How dare you put me and my kids through everything you've put us through

Just down I want to tread carefully Because this is the first time that I've seen your leg shaking That's something I've really struggled to forgive myself for It's such a hard story to hear. How did you survive? Hey there, welcome back to the second half of my incredible conversation with Carrie Coton. If you haven't watched Part 1, stop everything, go watch it and then come right back.

Trust me, you don't want to miss it. And now, we're diving straight into the heart of her relationships. And before we do, if you're enjoying these conversations, please take a moment to subscribe to the channel and hit the bell icon. It only takes a second. It's completely free, and it really helps us to keep bringing you honest, powerful stories just like this. Just a quick heads up. This part of our chat covers some sensitive topics, including domestic violence and mental health struggles. If these subjects are tough for you, please take care while watching. All right, buckle in. This conversation is raw and absolutely unmissable. Let's get into.

What I, would I, what I guess I'm trying to. trying to understand here is that you had just come out of what was a relatively healthy relationship with Brian. You had just come back from the priory, right? So you are, you see a higher power, you're evolved, right? New mom. How do you entertain the relationship with Mark? How do you, like, help me, now that you've thought about. It wasn't a try, I mean, he was arrogant, rude, obnoxious. everything I didn't like in somebody. I think I was just rebelling.

I was hurting and rebounding. Yeah. Do you remember the first time you met him? You do. I remember the day he was watching from my mom's back doors drop off some Coke for her. And that's when I relapse. Six weeks after being at rehab.

Okay. What are you on? Okay. All right. Well, I see it. Mm-hmm. So you relapse back on Coke? Well, there's nowhere else for me to go or do.

There's no one else to do. There was nothing. How do you then form a relationship with him? Well, he was just became my drug dealers, didn't it? And then I don't know, I think because he was so rude and arrogant, I do, he was just everything that Brian wasn't, I guess. It was, it should have been just a one-night stand. Plus, I thought I'd get a discount on the Coke.

Carrie, I don't know whether to laugh at these things. Oh, my God. Okay. But I didn't I ended up paying more You had to pay more Yeah So you're in this relationship

Literally with your drug dealer And your mom's drug dealer Well it was my mum I didn't really use him I just moved over from Ireland And I've been away And didn't know who Mark Croft was And he was just a little scala

He was nobody special And But that's how you are He makes great babies Yeah He really does And that I'm grateful for Okay

I can attest to that Yeah You then get married. Well, I fell out when my mum didn't like me seeing him because he was her friend. And then I ended up going out about in Warrington and I saw him a bit in a different light. I thought it's all right, him.

And then he wanted to thank me for looking after his daughter and he took my friend for a million and ended up sleeping with him. It just wasn't allowed to tell my mum it was dead secret here because my mum would kick off. And Matt was like, you know your mum's ripping you off, she's stealing your credit card, she's doing this and she's doing that. It was almost like a battle between them both. And then I wanted to stand up to me, mum.

And Mark kind of helped me do that a little bit. Okay. You see what I mean? Okay. Yes. Yes. Was that primarily your relationship with me? It wasn't. It was more. It was at first. Like, and obviously, I got pregnant and stuff like that. We had our babies and nothing. It wasn't like we was on it all the time or anything like. But he was a drug dealer. Yeah. Okay. I see. Did you see what I'm saying? I see. But it did get to point that I. I OD'd twice on Coke. When you split up with somebody,

you just see this, it happened with Ryan, this mundane, normal bloke, who's then, I won't even ever go into it, but it was just like, what? Yes.

And I'm always surprised. I'm always shocked. I think I'd never do that to anybody. Yeah. In a million years. And I saw a different side to Brian, but for me, like, when I used to go home,

back to Warrington, and cocaine was my escapism. Okay. So we'd lock the door and it's just me and my mum's friends and that's it. The outside noise has gone. The press have gone.

I couldn't walk outside my house up being recognised. It was, I mean, you know, until this point, Paul, I never realised why I married Mark and I know it was to piss me mum. That was it. It's never, ever dawned on me that before. Look at that.

Ever, because we kept it in sick, we kept my mum, because my mum was the top dog. Anything my mum says, it goes. You know, she had such a hold on me, Paul. I do love your mum because I know you're watching us. I know you hate me talking about it, but stuff shit, it's my story. Yes. Yes.

But she had such a hold on me. And now, oh my God, I'm actually going to cry because that makes so much more sense to me now. Because I thought Mark was helping me with my money and all, but it wasn't. I just lost everything. But before Mark, I got the Iceland contract. Okay.

So that was that... That was big, yeah. I'd love to get that back. The Iceland. We should make that happen. And what was the... That's why moms go to Iceland. Prair rings one pound.

Just like that you have to lean in like that... I know what I'm doing, Paul. I'm a completely fresh up. You do. So you got this. So you are still on top of the world, but you're saying these rumors. Behind the scenes is a disaster.

Everyone's selling stories. This one bloke, I'll never get his name, Leighton his name was, went and so did a story, said I gave him a blowjob behind the back of Tesco. He could have the decision to say Iceland. But there was no truth in it whatsoever, but the papers were print whatever they want.

It was crazy. And bear in mind, people then... So this is my fall from Grace. This is my gradual fall from Grace Park. They did it press. He put you all the way up there at the top. And they're like, oh my God, poor Kerry, Brian, you know, and you win the jungle and everyone loves you.

And then I'm going through heartbreak and I just deal with it the only way I know how to because everyone's watching. And then I get judged and... And then there's this tear down, slow, tear down. Oh, it wasn't really slow-tired-ed. I'd say I OD twice. I mean, that in itself could have been the unintentional work.

I know for fact, the news at world had a headline. I'm ready to go. Kerry found it. That's what they wanted. That's what they wanted. When the whistleblower blew the whistle on, the hacking, he went, please look into Kerry Cotona. It was Prince William, Prince Harry, Kerry Cotona.

As far as... At the top three. At the top three. Who had been hacked. Because I sold papers. I must... I used to hate on Saturday. When I get that phone call,

we're running a story tomorrow, Kerry. On the Sunday... papers. Yes. I mean, I think the news will who are bloody more famous than Atomic Kid. Oh, I mean, and then also I think people need to understand that when you say selling stories, that literally, so there are people in your... So a reporter, who was a good

friend of mine and Brian's, went around to my mum's house with a bag of coke and loads of cash and then put her in a hotel room and she saw her in my flight, 75 grand. And I didn't speak to that and put it. And I'll never get, I was pregnant with our hidey and I left Molly's uniform.

at my mum's house. And this is obviously I'm pregnant, cleaning me act up, not doing anything, being good as gold, and that's when you start noticing things when you're not in that mix. You know what I'm saying, Paul? You start noticing things then.

I went around my mum's and I'm not to my mum's, and we had a blind shot, so I knew she was on the gear because she wasn't up. And she opened the door, she had all cock round and I was like that. And I saw someone running the background. I went, I just couldn't get my house.

That's my house. I own that house. I bought it for her when I moved to Ireland. and I obviously got me with a house owner as well. Multi-millionaire, Paul, I was doing really well. Back then, you got under Kva doing okay shoots. Look at that. You know what I mean?

My Iceland contract was like nearly 400 grand a year. Oh, my goodness. You know, then I had my reality shows. And, you know, so on and so forth. And I was the okay columnist. But that's when you get really good. You don't get out like that nowadays. Like, that's why I do only find.

We'll get to that. And we'll get to that. Eventually. Have we got a sleeping baggie, yeah? We don't need one because we're going to be listening. But this is so interesting. Like I'm glued into every, every, every. So you see the reporter or you see someone in the back.

Yeah, and a baby as well, right? And it turned out it was a, I mean, mom shut the door on my face. I'm like thinking, what the fuck? And I just said that, I thought something's not right here. And that was when she was selling the story. So the reporter gives your mother drugs. gives your mother money, then sits with her, and then pulls these stories from her. You were, you think about you at that time, is that you were just trying to bring joy to people's lives.

And you were seeking joy for your own life. I was going through so much. Don't get me wrong, I've made many mistakes. But I've never hurt anybody. It doesn't make me a bad person. The way I was portrayed was to be this vile, horrid, horrid mother. and that's one thing I don't like being told that I am is a terrible mother yes yes so then during this time article after article people are selling them

and then it's ridiculous uh these are friends family members everyone's everybody I knew I love sold me out and I feel was all made up pure shit that the only thing I ended up left with it was only thing that was ever there for me was coke okay okay So as this is happening, public image is changing. You then said there's an attack. Oh. How it is... Oh, right.

So what we got held hostage in the house? Yes, yes. So I had this lovely little mansion in here, Wimslow, where all the press used to sit outside. I thought even if we'd day, Paul. Goodness. Paul, I can't, I wish she was around that era to understand how big of a deal my name was.

but he was crazy. It was, I didn't get it, it was weird. So this one night we're in the cinema room. Heidi's five week old. And the double doors opened. We had a bar and a pill table. I was with Mark Croft and these, oh my God, these three men come in with balaclavas,

a sledgehammer, a butcher's hook, and a carving knife. A carving knife, pall my biggest fear. Because I had to put out my mum's leg. And I'm thinking, nah. I'm done in here now. No way can I be going through this twice. No, no, no. I really thought, I'm...

I remember as it's happening, I'm thinking, this can't be real. Yeah. This can't really be happening. And people are like, you're track, draw, and you're looking... I didn't do anything. I was starting watching my fucking cinema,

with baby my arms. Yeah, what were they saying, demanding? I had a 50,000 pound check in my name signed to me They tried to steal that I was like, oh no bed It's in my name You know, they took our charity You know, I donated a lot of stuff to charity

Regards like football T-shirts I'd had signed and they took all the TVs They got Mark And I used to be able to say Well let's come around the house I was muted Paul They took all And they marched Mark around the house

Okay And took everything and then he gave him the car keys and they locked us up in their toilet downstairs and put the pill table in the way so we couldn't get out, but they gave me napes and milk for the paper. Did they? Look at that. And then they left after they've robbed you completely.

Yeah. And that's why I ended up back in the priory, because it triggered me. Because it, okay. Like, we had the police come in, fingerprints, like, it was all cornered off. He was on Sky News. No, I have to ask this only because of how seedy a character you've described Mark to be.

Oh, yeah. Why? No, what I was going to ask is, do you believe he had anything to do with that, Rob? Yeah. Can't tell you there. So we found a book, how to burgle your own house. And when he used to go to the gym, they always go, why are we carrying his school at? And he actually did an interview that he said, why would I want to work when she gives me everything I want? like really arrogant and cocky.

Yeah, look at that. Yeah. Look at that. And then when I was on the medication, the Speakmans, before they became famous, they were really good friends of mine. They was there for all of that.

Oh, wow. And Nick spotted. Ours were Coots. I was with fucking Coots Bank, the Queen's Bank. That's who I bank with. That's how much money I had. I'd be on that much medication.

I'm signing blank checks. And Nick spotted it, and he pulled Mark up, and he said, why is she signing all these checks? These blank checks for you. And he said, well, this same thing

ain't going to last for long, is it? So I'm just putting a little part aside. But Carrie, did you trust him to sign a blank check over? You know what? I think I was just, it was at a time after Brian

and everyone was selling me out, left, right and sent it there was nobody else there, really. I had kids with him. There was Molly and Lily. I had just, and every week there was like, He got video with his hands down some girls' knickers in a bar.

And I'm doing the Iceland adverts. It's on front page of paper. I had like 40, 16 an hour shoot. That's how long the Iceland adverts were tech over two weeks. The long days, you know what, you know what it's like, Paul. I just didn't want to get divorced. And it was almost like I was trying to prove something to Brian, I guess, as well, in a way. Okay.

Do you know what I mean? I know. I know. And now you mentioned that you had to go back to the priority. Yeah. as because the trauma the trauma paul it was i i didn't realize what PTSD was and how things could trigger you yes i was a mess like i didn't want to go near the house i was terrified and i went back and that this is after got diagnosed with bipolar as well so i was always back in two to the private because

you used to call it trial and error okay be your medication a fair play to mark croft it walked in the room and all shrippling he went each trial and i was trying to find the right the right the right balance for her. And I've got a lazy, so I had speech therapy because of the way, I've got a lazy tongue. Did you have speech therapy? After this morning, yeah. And I found out I had a lazy tongue

and I thought, well, I wouldn't make a good lesbian. Or would I? Well, you can laugh at that. This is so bizarre. I never know. I don't see if I got three men marry me both. I don't know when to laugh, when to just hold it back.

I don't know what to do with you, Gary. You're the first guest. I have no, I know what to do. Sometimes I want to leave. But you just mentioned this morning. Yeah. So let me say this. I have a friend and I was like, yeah,

Carrie's always like calm, cool, collected under control, right? And he's the one who told me, he said, you know what? Not everyone has thought this all the time. He said, like, for example, did you see her on this morning? I said, no, I haven't seen this morning. He said, you know, take a look. Take a look. Carrie.

I've watched it probably six, seven times. Really? And analyzed it different ways. And I have lots of opinions. Ask away. You were a darling at ITV up until this point. So you're in and out of the studio this morning. You've already hosted this morning.

Yeah, I'm always on there, yeah. You're familiar with everyone there. You feel comfortable. ITV was my home. It was your home. It was my home. I loved it. It was like a stability.

I love doing loose women because it was regular. I knew where I was going. I knew what I was doing. The Iceland had first. I love stability. I like trying to, I felt like I had a proper normal job really a little bit. Does that make sense?

It does. And I think that's important for everyone. Yeah. As we get to the interview. Okay. Right. So now you were booked. Was it to do a segment around, was there a hollow-on dock?

Yeah, you're a reality show. I was there to promote my reality show for MTV. Okay. Crazy in love. Okay. So I think it's Phil Schofield. Yes. Who starts...

Phil Schofield and Fern Cotton. Yes. Fern Britt. Britain. Furn Britain. Yeah. In Philip Schofield. And I believe he starts the segment by saying that you were late.

There was a car crash. There was a car crash. On the way. Right. It wasn't our fault, but it was in London and the car got dinted. Now, I was on Celebrity Juice the night before. Okay. With Lee Francis, Paloma Faith, and we finished like 1230.

Okay. And I took my meds really late that night. All right. So the meds you took, because I felt like what they were, the host were alluding to, is that you were not on medication, but you were on cocaine or some other form of drug. Or alcohol. Or alcohol, right? But not a prescribed drug.

So specifically, though, setting the record fully straight is you took exactly what the night before? Balm vaccine. I was on 150 milligram of vaccine, 250 milligram of psorpromisein and a 7.5 milligram topocone. Okay. Which will knock anybody out. Okay. So, and then you had limited sleep, I would imagine. Because you were just shot.

I literally got up and got in the car, slept in the car on the weather, had the car crash, got out, got in the studio, sat in her makeup, didn't speak to anybody. Got on the couch, the car was there, turn it on. All right. So it's just you and Mark is there. Yeah.

Okay. So no one, let me make it clean. No one did anything wrong, Paul. No one's like, oh, people should not let it. I've gone on like, no one did anything wrong. Right. It wasn't like anyone's duty. No one said anything.

No one did anything. No one did anything. I didn't speak to anybody. No one. And I was like, I was like, I was still half a fucking sleep meal. I was like knocked out. And even now, I talk super fast sometimes.

Like, I can't pronounce my hours and I get me word, because I'm dyslexic, I get my words back to front sometimes. But when you've had that marked medication the night before, like, if I happen to tech, which I can still get prescribed, Zofocom, because my head, always, the next day I can, my speech can be a bit slow. But when you put, um, valet vaccine and cloporomis, see, please Google it.

Everyone at home, please Google it and look at the side effects of what it actually does for you. I shit you're not. Coke doesn't make you slur. You're sharp as a whistle. You're talking a million miles an hour. You think I was on Coke now.

I like to go on speed anyway, me. Do you know what I mean? Yes. I've never been a massive drinker. And what it was for me, everyone should I let I go on that? No one should let I do this? And it was nobody, no one did anything wrong.

Right. Mark didn't do anything wrong. All I did, Paul, was, set me meds, go sleep, get up on time. I had a car crash, went into hair and makeup, went on the teller. You said on the car. Okay. That was as simple as that, but I have my reality team filming me.

They got the car crash on camera. Interesting. They're filming going to the studio to promote the reality show, my own reality show. That I used to have a from TV. Interesting. And they're filming it all, and they're watching this all fall apart. Yes. And one question I didn't ask that should have is that medication was prescribed for...

Bipolar. Or is the bipolar? Yeah. Yeah. And psychotic drug. Okay. All right. Very strong.

So then now that you have reflected on that entire experience, what was it like to be there in that moment? And then what's your opinion? Shear panic. Because to me, I thought I sounded normal. Even now if I get up at morning, I'm tired. I'm a bit slow. It's like a speech impediment. It's almost like Jonathan Ross.

But you put all those mixes of medication in there. And then it goes. But what annoyed me was. I was just sat there and I was talking about the thing but it was almost preempted because Fern had the OK magazine Do you remember the OK magazine?

Yes That was preempted before I even got there Paul about when she goes You know you're away in my beer on holiday And you're drinking shots You know Do you think you're an alcoholic

I'm 28 years of age I'm on holiday without my children I've brought my girlfriend away with me What do you're doing with shot green tea I mean, Marbaio, I'm entitled to have a drink without my kids on holiday, love them, 28 years of age, but I guarantee Philip and Fern

you're gonna go and open a bottle of a white every bastard night. I don't do that. You know, your speech is a bit slur. Oh, you are different, Kerry. Oh, you are. Because we have the same management with me, Philip. I was like, well, your speech is a bit slurred.

You think, you know, you're an alcoholic. I was like, well, no, I took me medication. Is it? You know, I felt, I took me. medication late last night. I've got something called bipolar. And I'm panicked like, it did I mark, you know, and not once did they say to me, what's bipolar? What's, what, explain to us uneducated people about mental health and what's this medication that you're taking? Instead, people jump to assumptions that I was pissed, I was on coke and I can, I can take any

lie to test, I've got no reason to lie. No reason at all to lie. It was pure bipolar, it was. It was Pure bipolar medication. So clearly they put you on the spot. And that was in front of millions of people. Fucking hell yeah. And... I think it's still to this day the number one car crash interview ever of all time

until Prince Andrew did his. It's like, Jay's that love, you're not off the spot. It's one of those where you can, you can, it's an very uncomfortable watch. I remember driving home Paul because it's obviously, it was at the ITV studios and I was living in Wimslow at the time and I remember driving home

and as I got to my house I kept thinking I got my camera crew in the back and I kept thinking I don't know it was like a crime scene outside my house, Paul it was like

I'd murdered somebody I was driving up like it was almost like when I won the jungle but for complete opposite reasons Yes I can think I don't know what I've done wrong I don't understand

I don't know what I've done wrong. I don't get it. When you were at the studio, right when the interview ends, did they say anything to you off camera or nothing? I honestly don't remember. I was just in such

shock. I mean, I don't blame him for asking me like, but it was how they went about it and then didn't listen to my reasoning and just kind of indicate that I was pissed. When I was like, I've taken medication and I was like, no one knew I had bipolar then.

because my therapy said they won't understand you can tell you've had drinks but they won't understand mental health so don't tell anybody there's no point and that time no one understood mental health issues right it was not discussed as it is today I think I'd like to think I've helped people discuss it more

I like to think that interview was worth doing really yeah I think everything happens for a reason so you would not change your thing no about that end absolutely not would you not want a big and one car crash into view of the world? No, no, not at all, Paul because my auntie was an alcoholic

and I brought her to come live with me down south why I got sober for six weeks. Okay. And she ended up on the same medication and up until that point she thought I was drunk until she didn't say medication and she was, I believe you know. Ask and, Google it, Google it, ask away.

I've got no reason to lie, Paul. Yes. It's one of those where I, so I take you at your word. Yeah. I think when with the context, because as you mentioned, you had all these stories coming out about you, right, about drug use. It was all the family, friends are selling stories. Now, that moment, I've read in the research that there were moments where you thought, want to kill me, son.

Yeah, you wanted to take your life. As I drove up to the house, I'm, like, my neighbors hated me. to his camera crews and paparazzi and I kept thinking, I don't know what I've done wrong. I don't know what I've done so wrong. Yes. But I was the pinnacle

at that kind of era of knock down. So with Mark, how many years were you? Four. You were with him for four? Four years. Four years. Okay, two babies.

I didn't even know we were getting married. I had no idea this wedding was happening. You, I had a surprise wedding. Yeah. I had no idea. All planned in Greta Green. And you get married? Mm.

And how long is the actual marriage? Oh, not long at all. Yeah. Oh, he takes ages, he just gets divorced afterwards, doesn't it really? Well, how do you think he surprised you and wanted... He wanted to baby trap me. He wanted to, he wanted to make sure that was his. And half of everything I earned was his.

He was money obsessed. Yeah. So you really feel like you were... Oh, I think I was just... Everything was going wrong for me. me it was just like I'm just gonna go along with it okay and he should never have I don't mean they must have been at some point I fell in love with him I loved him somehow so much I did I say yeah you've got to have done I won't deny that Paul I'm not gonna say you know but there were times

like you know I did love him I think yeah how do you and mark then separate I had an affair best thing ever did save my life If I had to stay with Mark, I'd probably would have died but drug overdose on coke or something. So with you having an affair, you believed in the institution of marriage, right? Massively. You had been betrayed in your previous marriage.

I'm by Mark during the whole marriage. Every other week there was a girl, and the girls were set outside the house in the car. But because of all the stories that was going on and I was trying to prove a point to Brian and I'd point to me mom, and I wasn't talking to me mom. And so I had nowhere to go really at all, Paul.

I thought, I've just got to stick this out. I've just got to stick it out. Hope it'll get better. And then I got offered by Closer magazine to go and do a weight loss thing at a boot camp, G-I-J boot camp for two weeks. Okay. First two weeks I've ever been away from that.

I remember this is, I sat with my mum. And it was last time I did Coke. And I sat there with my mum. And we used to have a tray. out of the other, to hide the coke and we used to have this pipe. I sat there with my mum and my driver was outside and we'd been on coke all day and I did a line with my mum. I said, I don't want this life no more. I just don't want to do this shit anymore.

I think my mum saw, my mum saw the mum saw look at my face and I don't want this anymore. I got in the car and it took me all the way to Kent to the GIJ boot camp and it was more than a weight loss thing for me. It was like I was training. It's amazing what exercise can do for someone's head. Yes. It's that blew me away, Paul. I did not realize what that can do instead of having medication.

Yeah. You know, one of the most effective forms of fighting a mild depression exercise. Go for power. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yes. I mean, I was at the start, it was at the bottom.

Oh, and at the end, I was at the front. It was like coming out of a coma. It was like the fog of just, like someone lifting a veil over and you're seeing, someone giving your glasses for the first time. I'm just going, wow, I feel amazing. And halfway through, Mark came to see me with my son Max. He was only, he's only one Max. And nothing had happened with the trainer at all during the whole period of the work,

of the two weeks we were there and you know it was towards the end there was a bit of flirting and he ended up to he was married I was married not proud of it but I don't regret it because I think if I hadn't had done what I did

and I hadn't gone where I'd gone Paul I don't think I'd be here I think I was in such a lost place that I think I probably would have been dead I think that gave me my chance to get away from Mark because I'm so loyal that I went straight home and went I've been having an affair

I couldn't be inspired me Paul I tell you everything Oh wow interesting so you went home So the affair happened I fell in love like I felt madly in love with the guy End of the two weeks No it'd been going on I've been using excuses to go back and two back in two Oh okay

And I couldn't I couldn't handle it I couldn't carry it on I see. But because this guy was drug-free, you know, he was a marine, he had structure and routine, and it was, it was like encouraging, get up, do work out, do trade it, say away for that shit, it was like, oh my God, this is like real life. This is like, it was like the trees weren't greener. I see.

Everything went into colour. Like, never laid a hand on me. But the emotional beauty you say, he's cold care, we'll quit staying, and who's going to want you. And you start believing it, you know, And then meeting the guy you were met, it was very popular. No point mentioned in one's names

because he stayed with his wife. I want them everyone to be happy. It was a million one years ago. To go from that start was just like, oh, oh, I see. Night and day. Night and day. How did you, did you feel at all

that you were betraying Mark your husband? Yeah. You did. I did. Okay. How did you reconcile that with yourself? I didn't. It was killing me.

It was killing me. And in the end, and I was being filmed, this other woman what was the documentary that we did she was following me everywhere and in the end i said on camera i've been having an affair and mark was in the kitchen i just couldn't hold it in it i couldn't i couldn't hold it and it was so you said it on camera before you told him yeah and then went in the kitchen and i went i've met somebody else what was his reaction it went ape shit i'm sure he could ape shit i said i'm done this i don't want this life didn't

it don't want to be like this and that's when i pat the kids up in the car in the middle of the nights the press couldn't find me and i moved 350 miles away and cut everybody out my life okay and that's when i turned my life around i never looked back and i lived down south of them 14 15 years you just got to a point of going i can't live like this anymore i can't so you went um So this is, so you went to a new hole. Mm-hmm. But then... But I got signed by Cannes Associates and they were great.

They really helped me. Okay. So they was, I had to do drug tests all the time. And they, that encouraged me to go down south. I was like, I'll do whatever it takes to get me away from this man. Get me away from this life because it was almost like an epiphany kind of thing. It was almost like that boot camp, not the affair, but the exercise and the other way.

women around me at G.I.J. Boot camp and the woman is Sharon who owns it. Yes. Just lifted you. The public image, though, I would imagine by this time the press has just destroyed you. It had, but then I, my management team were very clever.

I've got to give him that, and then I started Kerikotonou the next chapter. Okay. And we did a TV show called A Keriketona Coming Clean. A 90-minute special. And that's when I had this hip molly and Lily Down.

And I made them watch the documentary. With my camera crew, filming us, I was so ashamed and so embarrassed. They'd never seen me cry at this point. And the cocaine video was in there. Okay. But there was at an age, there was a private school, but it was at an age that before this comes on the teller,

you need to watch this because people are going to, like, Molly came on and went, Mom, what's a Cokehead? Paul Krista. These are her friends at school. saying this about you, yeah, yeah, okay. And when they watched it, I had like big fat tears of shame, they're quiet. And they went, when did all this happen, Mom?

Oh, it was the biggest relief ever, Paul. They wasn't aware of any of this. Why should they be? And they said to me, you should have told us we could have helped you. I went, just don't your job. That's my job. And that's why you never knew about any of it. Because I was the mum in my relationship.

When I needed a mum, I'll be your mum. How old were the kids at this point? Nine and ten. Nine and ten. And think of how profound that is. We could have helped you. Why don't you tell us? That's beautiful.

Yeah, because they just saw me as this strong, independent woman who just cracks on with her life and nothing affects her. Why can I show them that? Why would all let them see that? of me. And Alou went, so basically you've been living a double life, like a spy.

Yeah. How did you explain all of that to them? It just got to a point where I just started talking openly about everything. We childhood a lot. All my kids know everything. Everything. Because it's on the internet and people tell them stuff. So I'll rather

the merit from me. Yes. Listen, I'll tell you truth. I'll tell you that this shit I'll tell you the dirt I've done. I'll tell you the dirt I've done. I rather you hear it from me no matter how how bad it is. Yeah. I would imagine that also creates a stronger relationship with your children. Massively. Yes. I've got a bond with my kids that is unbreakable. Yeah. Doesn't mind Molly's 24 the end at month. She still comes home and puts a head on me knee and wants to mum. Yes. Yeah. Can we talk about motherhood just a bit because, um, please do because it's my favourite thing in the world. Yeah, I, I've, I've,

There were social services at the minute, Paul. See, this... But this is the joke, and you... And I see that you write this on your captions all the time. I let them out at Cage. And because of my past, people actually think that that's what their lives were like, but it really wasn't. But were people at any point, or press at any point, saying...

I was a social servant. Yeah. And your children should be taken away from you. Social services called a few times. Were they? Yeah. Really? No idea.

And they'd come in the house, everything, everything was normal. You know, the kids that go over to Ireland, I'd go on a binge. I mean, there's a story out today, on one of the magazines today that's made up of me and Powell together in a be-fair. He's like, you don't want to sit down. No, my right, honestly, fine. We've had a fight, apparently. Yeah.

I think it's this whole notion of you root people, you know, you clap and you applaud them, on the way up. And because my life's been great now, I feel like there's going to become an attack. Yes. That's what I'm waiting for now. Yeah, yeah, and I want to get to that. Paul's about to show you a presentation he made in Adobe Express.

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Actual prices may vary, limited time offer. Next relationship would be George. Yeah. All right. How do you enter a relationship with George Kay? Oh, contact. Oh. Just you saying his name out, that's fully sent me west.

Yeah. I will not say his, I will not say his full name again. This is one where, from our time on celebs, when we unpacked your history, this is one part of the history that... To see the condition of why I did what I did. Yes, yes. And we typically don't touch it. So let's only talk about what you want to talk about here. A whole body is just gone.

Yeah. When you think about, um, just meeting him. I knew George since it was 14, Paul. You've known him. This was, but we used to call him gorgeous George. And it was an on and off. Nothing ever happened until my 30 second birthday when I met him.

Again, so he came back into your life. We always bumped into it. Like, nothing ever gone. I never kissed him or anything as a kid. Okay. Oh, it makes us. feel funny this does, I think, because he's dead as well. Yeah. Yeah. What then would you like to talk about?

I'm happy to talk about. Oh, you just go like, give me a minute. Okay. You got a minute. You got a problem at all. Can I tell you something also, Carrie, you've done something no one else has ever done? You've used all the tissues. There are no more tissues left. I've burnt the candle out. I've used all the tissues. We've been here for 24 hours. we've had breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I feel like we're just peeling back all these layers

and I'm learning about Kerry. I'm not what people actually think I am, to be fair. And these are preconception of who I am. Yes, yes. And I just made a lot of mistakes. But George, that's something I've really struggled to forgive myself for. Like I'm digging my hand into my head because of the, like, just I'm shaking.

already because I brought him into my kid's life. And once again, bangs out great kids, just like Brian does and Mark does. Yes. And they're the best, they're five best parts of me. Yes. Might not been with the right partner, but I've got the right kids. Yes, yes, the perfect ones.

So when I said his name, there was a reaction. Why do you believe you have that reaction with his name? I remember it. I was 32 then. Okay. It was 32 then. 32. What was happening in your life at, at 32?

I was single. Okay. Already smingle. I went o one in Warrington and I went outside for a cigarette. And then George walked. Oh, you're sweet-haught. And he thought they're gorgeous, George. Absolutely.

A bit like a brickshy house. Tattoos. He was gorgeous. I don't have a type, Paul. It's true, you don't. I don't have, like, none of my boyfriend's lookalike. Yes. I've had Irish, Nigerian, Scottish.

Yes. You know, you truly do not have a type. I agree with that. It's in that moment, that connection of, you know what I mean? Anyway, George turned up is absolutely dropped a gorgeous. And he's just a big fella. And he came and sat with me. me mum and we had a picture

taken together. I said, I've not seen you for years where have you been. He said, I've been on my holidays. I weren't anywhere nice? He meant he just got out of jail. Okay. That for me was a turn on back then. I see. A bad boy. I didn't necessarily like a bad boy. I didn't know. Like

now when I look back at why I went with Mark Croft, I didn't realize it was to piss me mum off. I've never realised that before. But yet there's something about him that is interesting. What was that, do you think? He was a big soft.

He was very charming. Very charming. Obviously, Dr. Nogartaggard, and he did the respect that went along with him. And again, if you look back to Dave Wheat and the way I was brought up with my mom's fellow, he was in prison with the craze and the Freddy Kruger and the night. It was normal. Yeah. Someone like George, like me when I dated Ryan, that wasn't normal.

That wasn't my normal, but that, that was. And the worst thing. is, I kind of knew what I was getting myself into. You could predict it. I knew it. I did know it and I think I've lied so long like going, you know, did you groom you? It is like being groomed. So I know I can explain it and then you start seeing the real side of them.

Carrie, I tell you, I want to tread carefully because this is the first time that I've seen your leg shaking. Oh, right. Okay. You know. Really? Yes, this is the first time. So this is one of those conversations or parts of the conversation where I'll just open the floor

for you to say what you want to say. George was, I remember I introduced him to Danielle and Sharon from boot camp and that's when I saw the different side of him because I always talked about being on a holiday with Danielle and he got really, you went out serious bed and went, you're all right, and he threw her. It was like the Hulk.

he'd turned into the hook and he threw a phone at my head and Molly, first time Molly's ever heard anything like that in her life and it scared this shit house for and I kicked him out of the house and he went home to my mum's and my mum rang me

and go carry his sock Kerry he sat up I think it's because he's dead as well I think it's when you said his name I wasn't expecting that kind of effect on me really because of fear and then when eventually

did die, Oh, so angry. So how dare you put me and my kids through everything you put us through? Just die. Now we're left. George was a very, very, very, very twisted soul. So many demons. I don't want to disgrace him any more than what he's done for himself

and the things that I personally know that people don't know, which I was just about to do when I stopped myself. So that makes sense. That's fair. The first time he beat me up, I sat on Auntie Costa's knee from Blue doing the big reunion. Antony's like my brother. You know, we were both on the same record label.

We grew up together in the industry. And I went back to Hotel Road and George was being my security for the atomic kit and running around. You know, it gave him a bit of a job, a bit of a purpose. And he scored, dragged me down the hotel room. And they made me sleep in the bath. Oh, it was terrifying. And I had to get up and go and sing Hole again on camera for the Big Bay Union.

I remember crying. Did the scenes say you've got to Google it? I remember crying around the piano. The piano. And that's what you were crying. I was crying over the fact that I was terrified and I made it out like, oh, it's such an emotional time for us all to be together.

Because I just like, I think you get, you're so ashamed and so embarrassed about what's really going on that you don't, you put on such a face. fake persona. Like I faked it all. I had that period of my life of the training, the exercising, the veil being lifted, I could see for the first time, this is great. So I took that step back and I don't know why I did it. Does that make sense? Yes. And it feels like you were now in this darker place than you had ever been. And you're probably asking yourself, how did I get here? And not with drugs.

just with the abuse like George was spit at the face which is so degrading and he could get rough in different ways as well and he would spit my face and then DJ started doing it I can't

and then I remember Molly looked at me and said pure disgust you're so weak you're so weak mum I just thought I'm Susan and my mum your mom

I'm doing exactly what my mum did and that was like an epiphany and I'll never forget Paul this one time I was supposed to go into Big Brother okay on the civilian one as a celebrity guest

and to other celebrities and I signed the contracts and I think it was on like sorry for a couple of grand or something but that was the council tax George did work it was all

everything's always been me And he said, I never forget him saying, oh, you're going off on your holidays, getting pissed on, tell you, yeah. And he said, who's looking after the kids? I went, well, they're your kids, George. Leave those kids on watch what happens. Leave those kids with me and watch what happens. And he was terrible to my son. He was terrible to Max.

I found out things afterwards that. I didn't even know that my son told me when we sat in the bed. You know, I see why his name caused this reaction. I also see why his death still lingers. Because what it sounds like, what I read, is that he died shortly thereafter. And so he presented in a very evil way all the way through his death. On this note, talking about abusive relationships, there is one woman who is killed by an abusive partner or an ex every five days in England and Wales. In 2023, the police in the UK recorded a domestic abuse incident every 40 seconds.

and I think that what is often not talked about is how, and you just mentioned this with George, is that how he would be abusive, but then he would spin it around and be incredibly charming. I would get on my hands and knees apologising for him hitting me because he told me I was like a red flag to a bull. That's because he loves me so much. So how were you able to leave him?

We just moved into this beautiful, gated, only nine houses. Mine was the nicest, obviously. And the woman over the road, she was a police officer. Okay. Anyway, I've gone on, I'm cooking the food. And the house home rings and DJ is running around, only two. And the else one rings. And I went, hello?

And you're at, hi-ya, it's his Sussex place. George is upstairs. I just knew straight whether he was going to go. I said, yeah, can I help, yeah? Because, um, we just had, you just rang this number? I went, no. I said, Noah left me up. My voice started shaking.

I went, unless my daughter, my little girl's done it. Noah thinks fine. My uncle up and my whole body was shaking. I thought, oh, here we go. Yes. Here we go. And then the phone rings again. The house phone.

Hello. I feel sick, path. And he goes, he rang us again. I said, only slay, said, I really not. And George was on the phone upstairs. He said, I did. My wife's trying to kill me. Here we go.

He was having a psychosis break. Yes. Yes. So he was having these intrusive thoughts. A psych. It was a psychosis. Yeah. And he has bits of scots free in you as well.

And I went in the utility room. To hide. To hide. And then I rang the police officer over at road. He said, come around and come get the kids, please. Because he'd have, like, he'd see things that wasn't there. Yes. And then when we invited the police officer

and a police officer boy from around for dinner one night, he told me you wrote a note and put it in. their pocket saying I know what you're up to and eventually the police turned up and I've been holding on to all this for years now Paul no one knew anything and that's when I broke and when the police officer came in I just like verbal diarrhea of everything that he'd ever done everything I couldn't stop so that night did they remove him from the house that night because it was George's name there was a red flag so it if his name would come up on their system,

they'd have to bring back up. Like, George was built like a brick shit house. He was six foot four. Do you know what I mean? He wasn't going to get him down easy. Okay. So that's why 22 police officers came. So they removed him.

And then once they removed him, I'm assuming you still didn't feel safe. No. So then what happens next in your. relationship with him. He ended up taking him back, just because I felt safer knowing where he was than when he wasn't with me.

Like I had this, like I had a restraining order and the statistics say that we only go so far when we start telling the truth with the protection officer, the women who come and protect you and you have an alarm and all that. And then they kind of get the way back in, end up dropping everything and dropping all the charges and do you know what I mean Paul I see it

you know so despite him being removed successfully yep you then allow him back in yeah okay so hard Paul when you've got kids yes you know yes because you because you wanted to work for them okay not just for them I just didn't want another broken marriage again I tried really hard. I thought of everything I could possibly think of to try and make this work. For DJ, I remember he came to see on Christmas Day and he was crying. I felt so bad for him. Yeah.

Because you and George were married. Yeah. I'm a widow. He never got, he won't divorce him. Oh, he didn't divorce you. No, they always say divorce. Me and George never got divorced. He refused.

Okay. Okay. How did George pass away? Drug overdose, accidental. Alone. What did you feel and think the moment that you heard he had passed away? Because it was angry more than anything. I just thought, oh, am I going to tell DJ?

You know, having a conversation like that, you little yet. Five-year-old's not the... Yeah. I wasn't surprised. I got the phone call, and he said, Jim Kay, who was his stepdad. And I didn't say anything. Didn't tell him. my whole body started shaking straight away

and just put it back in my bag and there was training order had been up for four months at this point so there was nothing stopping him from coming to me house so I rank home because our mother was at home and the girl everyone was at home

I went Lily just lock all the doors so just lock all the doors please I'm going to run away home and I just love it that was my first thought panicked and then Ryan was like oh he's probably just off his edge and went he's dead I watched me

they're calling me to tell me he's dead and then me manager called he went where are you love I went to you calling me to tell me George he's dead he went to him he's gone and I went down to the chapel at rest

the very next day I didn't go to the funeral I don't even know where he's very poor and I screamed at him he must have thought I was a lunatic and he was there a little smile on his face and he had all blood round his nose dry blood

and I screamed I fell on the floor so how can you leave that little girl why could you not try hard enough you're and I don't want to say simply you're allowing of it because yes it's a two-way street a relationship is a two-way street

that's why I shugged because I'll hold my hands up because I did allow it Paul so there's definitely that's why I that's why I feel that guilt on my kids because it's something I never, that was my aim not to have my kids go through what I went through. Right. So, yes, there is, there is responsibility.

Absolutely. And I would hold it on. I'll take it. But you have also, and where you need to give yourself grace is you've also been accountable in that responsibility today, right? And that's something that you have to give yourself. That's the only way I was able to move on from it, really. is owning it with all my mistakes.

Yes. Women in the industry get treated different to when the men fuck up. You know, like if... Yes. Pierce Morgan was doing an interview with Rod Stewart and say, and I love Rod. We know we love Rod. Yes, I do too.

And Rod was like, you know, we was all doing coke and having orgies. Pierce had we sat there pissing himself laughing. If I sat there and said I was doing coke and having arges, Do you know what I mean? I agree with you. There's a complete double standard. Massive double standards. What needs to be done today do you believe to help to reconcile that?

Well, the industry has always been a man's world, hasn't it? Let's be honest. You know, unfortunately, the world has. Yeah. You know, there's a clear patriarchy that we still live in. And it's not until me getting older that I realize how, different the world is for a woman versus a man. Yeah.

Right? Especially when you're doing it on your own. Yes. So what are, I guess this is the question is, what are ways that you believe men could be better allies to women? I think it's education. I think it's educating yourself and that

you might be a man and I might be a woman. You cut you, you're going to bleed. You cut me. I'm going to bleed. Where's the different standards in that? And if it wasn't for a woman, a man wouldn't be here. Because we gave birth to you.

We're the ones who carried you. I think we need a bit more credit than what we get. And we're human, we make mistakes. And I think the way I was treated, the way Caroline was treated, the way Katie's been treated, the way a lot of us have been treated, because we're women, more so because we're mothers. Oh, wow.

Interesting. So this is Katie Price. Me, Eureka. Eureka Johnson. We've all had it. But then you get like Boris Johnson having 20 odd kids. Yay, he's had another kid by 26 different women. I brought the kids up.

I put him to bed. I went to the school plays. I did the sports days. But we get slated. So during this time, and you mentioned, when you got that call. Yeah. You were with Ryan.

Yeah. Okay. Are we getting there now? Are we coming to the end? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I can't, we are coming to the end. This is, but hold on.

You know, you were only 30 years old at this point. Hey, Paul. It's time to tell our listeners about our new show sponsor, Treat Well. Let's talk nails then. I just had my manicure and pedicure too. And for those of you who might be a bit shocked to hear this, where have you been? I get it done because think about it. My hands are always being filmed, usually more than my face.

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Treatwell.com. or through the Treatwell app. Now this code is just for our listeners and is for you to try a new salon. You met Ryan while you were separated. Yeah. From George. And you met him on a dating app.

Yeah. Okay. So you're on a dating app. Yeah, and everyone knew what was on it. All right. It was Danielle Brown. She made me go on it because she was like, you need to get out.

Come on out and go on a few dates and have a few meals. And I thought, oh, she got a point. And we set it up like together. Okay. And the first one I went on. a date with was Ryan. Really?

Yeah. First one. I actually interviewed him. Did you? Yeah. And Ryan was really mundane. This is not me putting Ryan down. It was a real, real slow burner for me with Ryan.

Okay. But it was just, and that's when we met. Yes, yes. The favorite member in the world. So that was it. I can't forget it. Yeah. So we met probably 2019, I think.

And this is when you were on celebs go dating, not the most current. time but previous right so this is serious i like a like a cereal so go dating no that would be pete wicks you said it one more time than me yeah you were seeing ryan you broke up with him and on the show you were not able to connect with anyone on the show and i would imagine that ryan was playing there was one of connect it was one guy connected with him he was lovely and he bought me the secret book his name was stay i thought oh yes yes and yes i do remember oh he was lovely he was gorgeous as well Yes, I do remember. But I just, I think, I think, like, when I got engaged to Ryan, I had, I just thought,

I could never imagine myself walking down an aisle ever again. I think George did such a number on me that you just didn't. That I was just like, I was engaged five years. There was no way that was ever going to be a wedding, you know. We were together nearly seven years, me and Ryan. I mean, this is a big period, I think, in your life too, because you're all. So I'm grateful to Ryan. Yeah, yeah.

It gained me stability. Did you feel like it was a secure relationship for you? I think it was because it was so opposite to what I went through with George. It felt, and I love, I love company. I've got so much love to give Paul. And it just, it was just nice to have someone there, I guess. Mm, okay. And it was just nice and.

Easy. Easy. Okay. All right. But I'm saying. that there was a lot of problems in the relationship for like the last four years but we went into that on the show didn't we

we did we did but what also seems is that because you went into business with one okay so that's where things change okay so how so well I was literally about to go into my third bankruptcy because like we like to do trilogies don't we do with me because everything goes on for so long yes and this is the beginning of the third episode

I don't have been bankrupt twice at this point, Paul. Okay. And so the first time I went into bankruptcy, I didn't even know what bankruptcy was, Paul. I didn't even know, I had no idea what that was. I think I had a tax bill for 84 grand. Okay. Which was pennies to me.

We spoke before about how much more I used to win. Multi, multi-millionaire. There could have been a shoot of one photo shoot. One photo shoot, yeah. And Matt's Clifford ran me up. And he said, Kerry, you got into my first. bankruptcy said, what's bankruptcy me? And when I went back, when I told you about the blank checks that Mark was signing,

and it turned out that my accountant, I got arrested. Did you? Yeah. Because my accountant, David McHugh, was a con man. And he was siphoning my money. And every time he sent me a stamp saying, this has been paid, this has been paid. None of it had been paid. It's nothing in the bank it had all gone.

and everyone thought oh she sniffed it away tell you what Paul I could put as much cold cut my nose because I could afford it So what were you arrested for? I turned into a bit of a ninja I went round his office because I knew it was him

I knew my soul it was him and I kicked his door down and I grabbed his tie and yeah it was so I don't want to say too much I get arrested again but I ended up it was for assault yeah

and I physically like punched him in the face and got and I got putting the cells for 14 hours when my shoelaces taken off me. Yeah. That was the second time I was arrested for something different. And I kept thinking, this can't be happening.

This is, I'm being arrested. And I said to police, please raid him. Please, I'm telling you now, and they eventually did. And, you know, when you... You have, like, the squares and the ceiling. They went up and they found a... I've still got it somewhere. Ryan's put it somewhere.

That had all like T.S.B. Lloyds. Barclays. All these company house names. Character Entertainment. KK. Limited cleaning. Nothing to do with me. All forge.

All these paychecks. All these checking books. Checks. It was. And he got arrested. He actually ended up getting it. He actually went down for about five years. Not just to doing it to me, but he did it to loads of people.

But I was like the only well-known person. When you think about how much money, right, when you think about it all, how much money do you believe was stolen from you? Oh. Loads. I mean, I used to give money away like it was sweets anyway. But I was paying people to love me really like I did with me one. Yeah.

Yeah. So that was, so. See, money never. it took me a long time to realize, like, looking back on it now, like me, going into bankruptcy, it was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. Because all those hangers on, just the all disappear. They all disappeared. So when you go into bankruptcy, you're basically wiping your debts clean.

But you know you've got to pay to go into bankruptcy. Okay. You've got to go to court and pay them, then you're still allowed to work, and you're only allowed to earn, like, you've got to go over your mortgage and, you know, my kids are in private. He had to go through everything. Okay. And in the end, they took my houses off for me and they've got my wound as I gave me for that.

Goodness gracious. So at this time, the third bankruptcy. I didn't go, no, there's not been no. Oh, no. I thought you said three. Nearly. Nearly. Nearly.

Nearly. Okay. Ryan stopped it. Ryan stopped it. It was the first lockdown. And I had this 50-st jute box at Brian McFaddener bought me as a wedding present that had on. We had my Roger Stewart in it. We couldn't chew and west.

and my doctor-hook and all my Royal Obis, you know, that's the only thing I walked away from, and obviously my two kids, that I took away physically from that, from the house I designed and everything, that I walked away with that. And I had to sell, I had a photo shoot set up with the sun.

It was a naked photo shoot classic, like, you know, just folding yourself, but everything got cancelled. Because of COVID. Yeah. Yeah. I think my rent was like £1,900 or so. And I could afford to pay me rent. I asked to sell the jute box and then someone mentioned her own fans to me and then started

telling me about how much people are making on it I remember when a pack got a picture of me tops on a beach it went for 75 grand 75,000 yeah I was like I had a pint and a burger had nothing doing me that and that's when I started doing my own pack pictures right so I want I want to get in on this because I don't think that's right in your hide you in a bush so I'll do it myself I got no shame in that I don't I don't care Sure. I really, I really don't. It doesn't bother me in the slightest.

The picture that's on the Covenant Magazine this week, I mean, Parloom, I set that up. Yeah. But whatever they write is completely down to them. Nothing do with me. But the photos, you wanted to take control. Because if I go away, like I go away on Saturday, I'm not going to say where I'm going.

And if I go away and they find out I'm there, it's ridiculous. So I'd rather just bang out a load of bikini picks, pitched with the kids, and then they can all leave me alone. Right. So only fans. was your way to monetize this even more, right?

Well, again, let's go back to page remodeling. I've literally just gone back to doing, I used to do nuts and zoo and FHN. They're all I call it, really glamorous magazines from back in the day because, you know, you're American. And... Thanks for a moment.

Give you a bit of content. Thank you. And I just started putting up sexy, topless picks. So how... How successful was OnlyFans for you in the first month? I made about 175 grand. First month.

I've made millions. I've made millions on it. And I'll continue to do it because it's just too much money to turn down. So first month, though, right, because I would imagine you didn't think, you didn't envision. I just paid all my debts off, Paul. Really, in the first month? First month, I just paid tax, everything. Dun, dun, do, done, done.

And you thought, wow, this is now... And then that's when Ryan... Because he works in accounts in insurance at the time. He had a desk job. Absolutely fine. And because he was like, he's like, why don't we do it as a bit? And he taught him so much, but I don't like...

I don't like listening. I'm like, no, you just deal with it. I don't want to know. I think I've got so much... Maybe PTSD from what happened with the bankruptcy because then I did Big Brother. And I got three... about 365.

365 is doing Big Brother. Okay. Not bad? $365,000. Yeah. Yes. But I paid my first bankruptcy off. Now, you tell me how this works.

My first bankruptcy was for $84,000. I end up paying a half a million pound back. Because these trustees, every time they send you a bastard letter. Yes. A grand. The dentist and me a letter. Brian, so you are in a romantic relationship, but then you enter a business relationship at the same time.

And you feel like that's where things change. Yeah. So how did it change and then how did the relationship end? I wasn't, Ryan wasn't emotionally available. He wasn't emotionally intelligent. I mean, he wasn't a bad person at all, Ryan. It was just, I didn't realize how starved I was from love and affection until I did the ship. Okay.

Which we spoke about. I didn't, even conversing, even a conversation. Yes. I never knew what was going on in his head. All right. Well, then let's get to the man of the hour then. Fucking out. We're there. Are we at the end? We are there.

Yeah. Don't have you had, don't you get it. You know what? We are. Let's say we are there. Carrie, we are there. We are about to do this. No, no, not yet. Not yet. Not yet. We're going to get to the man of the hour right now. I know. This has been long. So you get this chance. to come on to a little show cause celebs go dating. Let me guess you're on it.

Yuck. What aren't you on? Fucking hell. So, you say yes for what reasons? The paycheck. The paycheck. It's a job for me, Paul.

Yeah. I'm not, I'm not, I won't lie. For me, it was like, oh, it's a great paycheck, get see Paul and I her again. We can catch up, get some therapy, and an exposure,

because that's what we all do. This is what we all, we all do it. This is our jobs. Paul, I'm not ashamed to admit that. Yes. You know, I'm not going to,

I went, went on there because I really wanted to find love. Did I, I was not interested? Did you think it was possible to find love on Slubs Go dating? Absolutely fucking not. I thought they're all blown of jokes. Paul, I wasn't interested.

You know this. Yes, yes. Am I going red? You are going red. You are going red. So you come on to the show. We're appreciative of this, right? You want to spend some time

with, we're very open and honest. With myself, Anne, which we love. I just thought, you know, you've got an opportunity to work with the experts and you're working so hard on yourself. Why wouldn't you set that opportunity? Self-improvement. Yes, and get paid, so you get that. And you're right, you get exposure.

Because it's my job. Yes, so this is good. It's what us de-listers do, Paul. Oh, come on, don't do this. And it will help with only fans as well. Absolutely. All right. I'm so glad you mentioned that.

Yeah. Discount rates on the wing. I told you this bookie sending me. me after it's all my only fans pictures i told him not show anybody these pics all right so so so you so you land on the show yeah okay now day one day two day three day four first few weeks you're thinking hey sure a load of shite honest i thought i was on the undatables at one point i thought it was on the wrong show all right i'm not even going to lie i thought an expert's my arse yes and then there was one consultation that I happened to be in

where we had debrief to date we were queuing up your next date this was when I realized that it was okay to want to be in a relationship this is when I realized I wasn't in my I thought I'm the Queen of McCastell

I don't need anybody that was that and that's what you brought Palo up wasn't it you brought Palo up so Palo hits the screen oh my God babe I'm so sorry when you watch us back So he hits the screen. Now, because we know Slubs Go Dating is edited, and I was there, so I know everything you said, Kerry.

Everything that you said. Oh, oh my God, I'm treading. So he hits the screen and then, Kerry, what do you say? Truly. Honestly. You're having a fucking laugh. It looks like Rintin Tintin. That's fake.

That's fake. That's fake. Oh, it's a Virgo. Paul goes. Kerry, Kerry. Look at the height. Look at the height I wasn't really ass

So Paolo was someone who You don't have a type But I went well look at him twice in a bar Right So you thought this was going to be This date would be a bust I actually wore my trainers

Just to set the piss All right Even though I'm 5'4 And a fart It wasn't because it was him Yes It was anybody poor What changed your mind

When I met Paolo What about him? What about him? I found him really insightful. It was the way he spoke, and he sounded like he really had his shit together. And I thought, I actually afterwards, when you go out, I don't want, oh, it's something else.

Yeah, exactly. I can say what I want. Exactly. It's been out. I have a boyfriend. I actually, I was, I was just really, it was just a really, not an intelligent conversation. It was just, it just flowed really well.

and it was um i just thought it really insightful you could tell like he'd he'd been i don't want to tell too much for anyone else's story but you know there's there was he had he'd worked on himself yes i related to that yes and i found him really i wouldn't have thought he was 33 which is also something so palo is 11 years younger than you mm-hmm okay I remember when you came back into the agency, we had a conversation around this. You need an older man who's got yourself. Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, not. To be with somebody older.

No, no. Yes, yes, you were for anna. Don't do not put that on us. Yes, because we were palo. He's got her own money. Carrie, we were Palo fans. Now, we did bring up age difference. Yeah.

And age difference is definitely something that plays out in relationships. Yeah. So were you at all concerned? Yeah. Okay, you were. So no, every now and then it gets in the back of my head. Yeah. Yeah.

What in particular gets in the back of your head? That I'm a lot older. And you start fast forwarding? A little bit, yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking, God, in five years, you know, I'm going to be the same age as his step-mom. You know, that's fucked up in my head. But then you look at men with younger women, and no one bats an eye either.

But it does play in my mind a little bit. Yes. I'm not going to lie. Yes. But then when I'm with him, you don't even notice because the energy matches. And that's what it is. It's that I've never had. I've never had a connection like this in my life.

Ever with anybody, Paul. Ever, ever, ever. Ever. And at what moment... I'm not scared to say that. At what moment through the celebs go dating journey, did you realize this is real? This is a real relationship. Unfortunately, we spent a lot of time off camera.

Let's talk about that. Yeah. What about that time? It was my kids. It was my, I mean, it started off with Paolo texting me to make sure I got home safe. Call me an air shoe desk because I thought I looked like one. I was like the way one's dressed. I was like, and the exits are this way.

And, you know, I'm always taking piss out myself. I thought that was funny. And then, because I look at all my messages, I try and respond back as to many people. was a cam. And then I went on his page, and it was the way he was as a dad that was really, really appealing. He was a great dad. Okay. Every day we spoke.

Like, mine was just like, little one line of replies. Yes. At first, kept it. And then it was really poorly. And he said, can I send you something? Do I really get this dude my address? I was like, ooh, do I? But I'm doing open when my kids, like, Mom, do it?

You know? We had our second day on the show. Okay. And then after that second day, I went home back to my hotel. I said, I hide you with me. Okay, yes, this is it. When I had, yeah, I had the polka dot outfit on and then I got changed for the second day and a walk-the-black outfit.

Yes. And we've been voice-noting and talking non-stop. And I had all the voice notes because I tell me kids everything. They're the best. She makes. Like, she's 18, I hide her. So what? It's really nice.

So, Sophie said she'll go for a drink with him. She was, why don't you? So I've got you here. She went, Mum, stop. Stop it. Stop using us as an excuse. She went, go look in that mirror. She goes, you look like a badass boss bitch.

You're not going to look like this again. You're both in London. Text him quick. Before he goes home and say, meet me at the bar for an hour. Because he sounds like a sound guy. So they're going, do I realize? And I'm going, what do I put?

And we're both laughing. And she's actually got me on video, text and saying, and he turned the year around and he came for a chat at the hotel was a couple of hours and that's when we kissed and that's where you kissed

and can I say this is at that moment though in your gut did you feel like this is real? Not at that first moment no no so at what point?

I don't know just really he has an aura and energy he's got really people so really invite you showing that you just want to be around and you think oh god he's actually really nice and I just kind of and then he wanted to come around the house and I was like oh

I don't know and I was like literally I was literally like this and we suffer so he couldn't touch me or come anywhere near him and and it was our DJ and I was like what do do what do I do? But they wanted to well they heard the voice notes they saw

they saw his page and they were they was intrigued and they heard him talking and yeah it was it was the kids who really pushed Push me on it. So there was a brunch. We do these brunch scenes. But film.

Oh my gosh. There was one. Well. I got emotional. Yes. But it was in that moment. That was the first moment where I saw the two of you and I thought, okay. Really?

There could be something here. And it's always in the way that, for me, it's how someone looks at you. So what I've noticed when celebs go dating and some of the other projects that I do is this kind of lack of, eye contact and distraction, especially when you stop filming. Yeah. When the camera's on, a lot of these folks are very good at their acting. So they know how to lock in. They know how to position their body in a certain way.

But when the camera's off, you could see how they turn away. They create a distance. But this guy, Palo, I was like, he's locked in on Carrie the entire time. It was like he didn't even realize that there was any filming going on. I was very aware. It appeared as if he was just seeing you and him and no one else in the room. I think that's what I noticed. I think it's the first time we actually felt like,

I think he's just transparent and being, he's so transparent. He's very, puts your cars on the table, and I like that. And just talk about uncomfortable conversations as well. But that, I think. that's a real good key to a great foundation of a start of a relationship really especially we've been who I am and we've both discussed that we know what's going to happen next with

the papers they're going to try and do that that's i mean let's let's talk about that now because now we can get into what is happening right now so you know i distinctly remember having a conversation with palo at the finale about what i believed was going to happen next And how I thought there would be an attempt to take down your relationship. Oh, it's started. So it's already started? Oh, it's already started. And I think for me that that bothers me as well.

Okay. Because when you step into my world, it's weird. It does. It bothers me. It's weird because I want to protect him and his children and it's, you know, and it's, it's a lot. And I feel embarrassed a little bit. I feel a bit of a burden because I've not actually done anything. I've not done it because of my name, I knew I am.

And it's a lot to take in, Paul. Yes. Everyone's got an opinion. Yes. And bear in mind, I've always kept my relationships quiet until I'm ready. But obviously, doing what we've done with the show, I'm having to ride and go along with his feelings with everything. everybody watching, especially in the show, which I found really uncomfortable.

Yes. I found that really like, oh my God, because I don't. People just see Kerry and then, you know, he got me down to a bit of a vulnerable state. Yeah. Yes. My concern, if you will, is actually not the two of you. Because I think when the two of you were together. Exactly.

What was his reaction when you saw that the first story come out on him? Because I've seen a few already of stories. that even seem to be, I would assume, misrepresentations of things that are happening. Yeah. You know, like, what's the one right? The one right now is we're in a beefing. We've had the great, my pat pictures. Yes.

And whoever's over the story they put with it, he's owed in my hand. And I've just had my boobs done. And I wasn't feeling very well, Paul. And he's got my head and goes, you sure you want to do this now? Let's go, no, it's fine. We can go, let's just bang it out. We'll do it now quick. It's fine.

That was the conversation. So you want to do this photo? Yeah. He's like, he can show you well enough to do this. Because you can see he's got a bandage on him. I'm going, yeah, let's knock it out. We absolutely fine. And they've had some body language expert come in and say,

we had the best time. And that was before he moved in. And I thought, I'm not letting this guy go. Yeah. But the expert's saying that you two are arguing, lower, like fight, it's a fight, right? Because of the pitch, because I'm like that. Right. I'm like, no, I said, just fine.

get out will be fine right but but so this is the and I approved all these pictures you approved the pictures but not that no I have nothing to do like I'll get the picture go yeah that one's fine that one's fine that one's fine that one's fine and then whatever they they put in it's no do with me yeah so now you two were moved in together I'm madly in love you're madly in love head over heels family you've blended family now yeah okay do you believe Carrie Cotona will walk down the aisle. Oh, fucking her.

Will we have a wedding? At Iceland, that aisle. Check out to be a bit of spill. Wouldn't that be epic if you got married in Iceland? No. You don't think so? He's all fucking class. But seriously?

I would marry Pallo and a heartbeat and a pop-out triplets for him. That's how I feel about him. Okay. Honestly, I was, Paul, you know how I'd meant I was. Yes. Yes. And even if this was to end tomorrow

and it was all bullshit on his part, I will never forget the way he made me feel. Which is how? Amazing. Dead after. Yes. Yeah. I can't take that way,

even if it was all bullshit and it was all lies and it was just a, wow. I mean, obviously, we're devastated. But the way I feel right now, I've never had that with anybody ever. Yes. How would you describe that for someone who, you know, you've been in committed relationships your entire life in search of love? I'm not like Brown Paul.

What you did? It was never my thing, really. You know, I just, I don't know. I think I just, if I like somebody, the energy's good. But the thing is, I'm. in a different place in my life. And when I look back on my relationships and I look like when I look back at Brian

and I think that's why that happened. That's why that. But this was so unexpected. We're like, I'm getting a bit of a jelly belly in your stomach. This is like, nah, it can't be happening there.

So yeah, expect the unexpected. Last question on celebs is, what also surprised you about that experience with celebs? You guys, you guys are very good at what you do Can we just cut Can we edit that? Ike's easel's not big enough

I think it was the day I went on the date with Palo When you show me his picture We had a bit of a deep dive didn't we We did that same day That day and I ended up crying Yes And that's when I realised

Because I was I was a bit of an ice queen When I really Let's be honest I didn't give anybody the time of day True I made it very very very very clear from that first mixer.

I was... You were not. I mean, I walked down in a poll. Yes. I went, listen, guys, I'm not going to bullshit you. I'm not interested in anybody. Yes. This is a good off-camera moment

that people need to know. And then I think this also shows your integrity. Yeah. Is at the first mixer... So open and honest. Off camera, you tell everyone that could be going with you to Ibitha. You're like, look, I'm not interested in any of you.

I don't see, yeah. I mean, I mean, this is coming out. the show so I don't know how it's been how it all looks. Yeah. Trust me, that was not in there. Did they not put it in? No, no, I'm almost, I'm willing to bet money.

They were not paying. Oh, you're joking. Why would you want to show you saying, I'm not interested in any of you? I don't know. Well, you were there. I was there. I saw it.

But I made it clear. Yes. Like, there was no getting through that ice wall. Yes. Tell them at Balo. Look at that. All right. Um, Carrie.

We have set a record. for the longest interview, not just on we need to talk, but in the world. This is literally the Guinness Book of Records for longest interview in the world. Truly, truly. You ask me, come up. You're the one asking bloody questions.

So I'm scared to ask this question, but my question is this, is, is there anything? I wonder what I talk about. We have not talked about that you believe is important. for us to include in this conversation? I wish society would stop being so judgmental,

not just on me, but on each other. And if anyone can take anything away from this, is a bit of hope. And, you know, you don't know what the person next to you is going through. So don't be so quick to judge somebody. Yes. That's it. You know, as...

If I can get through what I've got through, that's why I do this, Paul. I want... And I don't want, because I'm 44, she'll give up on love. No. God loves a trier. You know, don't judge people, you know. If someone's doing well for themselves, praise them, lift them up.

Yes. Don't miss a quit to bring people down and relish in that. Yes. Well said. Just be. Well said. It's nice as the other people doing well. Yes, yes.

So then even for Carrie, the celebrity, what's the next chapter for you? I'll go on tour with Katie. Dona? Yes. Me and Casey go on tour. 38 day tour. I know. It's a long one.

It's a long one. But you're going on tour. We're going on tour. And that again, it's all about hope, inspiration, resilience, mental health. You know, I'm in awe of Kate. You could have so easily give it up. I get it. We keep fighting.

We're still going. Yes. And that's what this is about for me. It's straightening each of us crown and then lifting each of us crown. And then I go into Panto and then I go on tour with Mammaia West. We go on tour. Ah, big. That's big. That's a huge one.

That's big. Huge. I'm so excited about that. Look at that. You are booked, busy and blessed. I am. Yes. As my kids set the piss out me.

All right. So then, I think we're down to the last question then. First, everybody. Last question. I cannot believe you're at. This is it. It's not bad. The time is almost 6 o'clock.

It's not. Is almost 6 o'clock? It is 10 minutes to six. We started this interview at 9.30 a.m. This is ridiculous. This is the longest interview ever. So this shows you down to this is it. Okay.

So, Carrie, you have had some amazing conversations throughout your life. Mm-hmm. But if you could pinpoint one, which one was the most influential in your life that you learned the most from? What did you learn in it and who was it with? It was with a therapist and it was Big Kerry going to Little Kerry where she was lonely, had nobody and telling little Kerry about this amazing life that she's going to live and these amazing kids that she's going to have and it's not going to be easy

but you're going to become a pop star you're going to travel the world you're going to feel lonely but I got you, me, big Kerry. That really changed my perspective and I picked a little carry up and put her in here. And that for me was like, deep. And that to look at things that I've been through and be so grateful.

I'm so grateful for it all. I really am. Even the fear. I'm grateful to all of it. I believe it. I believe it. I will say this. closing to you carry is you could be one of the few people I've met in life who is so well known

yet treats every single person they meet with respect I've noticed this about you and this is what I most adore about you is that you treat someone regardless of class regardless of race or ethnicity regardless of social position, regardless of if you're the executive producer or the runner, you treat everyone with the same level of respect. And when I first met you, I didn't know if that was an act. But now that I've known you for many years, I see that this is you.

And I think that is a superpower. And that's something that everyone should know about you is that you were highly respectful to everyone. You're kind to everyone. you're joyful to everyone, right? I think you were beautiful. Oh, that's so good, Paul. Well, I was going to say that you talk quite a bit.

You talk quite a bit. But, but truly you do. And that's something that I think society. Yes, society can take. I think social media has a lot to do with that as well. I think, um, I'm just grateful to be here, Paul. Again, like I said, I woke up this morning.

Yes. I woke up. I woke up. I got to live another day. So many others haven't. You know what I say to myself often is, is I woke up in a home with people who love me. Yeah. Exactly.

Yes. Exactly. Like, I got my gang. That's my gang. Yes. You know, and again, I'm really grateful. Oh, me. Yes.

Even the bad. Yeah. Carrie, thank you. This has been epic. Powerful cuffing done going off. I'm joking. Actually, that's how it should end. We're all going home. I don't need to talk to Carrie again for the rest of the life. That's how much we talked to. She had already reached beyond her greatest dream at 20 years old.

So it makes sense to me why she would just remove herself from the band. There are so many moments in Carrie's entire career, but specifically in Atomic Hitton, where she had to go on stage and perform while having a traumatic experience going on in her personal life. And I always say that when you're talking about performing, you know, especially on television, people say, oh, you know, it's easy. She just gets on stage. She might not even be singing. She's his lip syncing. But to be able to get on stage and block out. the trauma that is happening in your life and show up consistently in a way that the audience wants

to receive you. That is talent. And Carrie is undoubtedly talented. And every successive story gave you another, this new jolt of emotion. So you couldn't even stay in the old emotion. It was just bam, bam, bam, bam. We've had many phenomenal guys. We've had many phenomenal guys. guests, almost every guest prior to Carrie has held back in an area or two for a variety of reasons, trying to protect a loved one, trying to protect their own sanity, maybe trying to protect a story that they want to put in an upcoming book, right? There are a variety of reasons why people are not fully disclosing, and we respect that. Kerry was wide open.

I feel like when I'm interviewing someone, typically you're on a topic and there's a clear-cut next step or a clear-cut next route that you take. Sometimes, if it's really good, there could be maybe two options or even three. With every dialogue with Kerry,

there were ten options you could take. And you want to take a bowl. Yeah. It's like choose your own adventure. Which path do you want to go down? We have to realize that it's our responsibility to break the cycles of trauma in our families. And the beauty is that Carrie now can reflect. She can see that.

You know, everyone says heal your inner child, right? This is something that a lot of therapists talk about. And the reason why it's so important for anyone who says, I don't want to think about these moments again in my life. What's the value of it? We just saw it with Carrie. Carrie's 44. She just had this conversation with us. She now has had an epiphany for the first time in her life.

Just having that knowledge gives yourself grace. It gives yourself the ability to say, you know what, I'm okay. Like I'm a human. It's acceptable to think these things. But then more importantly, now that I know, that how could I use that going forward to maybe repair the relationship with my mother to maybe understand that this is going to be a trigger for me to know that I shouldn't show up this way with other people there's so much value in

going back reflecting and Kerry was able to heal that inner child just a little bit so having these conversations so incredibly important Kerry truly is an entirely different person from when I first met her. So I first met Carrie in, it was late 2018, early 2019. You fast forward to today, Carrie's on celebsco dating is not only was she well adjusted

from removing herself from that relationship, detaching herself emotionally, but she's done a substantial amount of work on self-worth and self-esteem. And she showed up as an entirely different person. But what was so fascinating is, even though she showed up as a different person, she thought that she would not find love at all. And this is why I always say, when we have

done the work, love shows up in unexpected packages at unexpected times. And that's precisely what happened to Carrie Impala. Hey, Mama. Thanks for making all my favorite recipes. Hi, Ma. Thanks for your unfiltered advice. Hi, Mom. Thanks for always being by the phone. Hey, Mom. Happy Mother's When you ship UPS Air at the UPS store, your items arrive on time or your money back, guaranteed at no extra cost, exclusively at the UPS store UPS store UPSS.S retail locations. Visit the UPS store.com slash air shipping for full details. Terms and conditions apply. Send your Mother's Day gifts at the UPS store and we'll get your gratitude there on time. Spring just slid into your DMs.

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