We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Love Is Blind EXCLUSIVE: Kieran & Meg Reveal Truth About Their Secret Relationship

Episode Date: September 16, 2025

They fell in love in 7 days, got engaged without ever seeing each other, and married on national TV. In this Love Is Blind UK exclusive, Kieran and Meg reveal the full story: what the cameras showed, what they didn’t, and what really happened during the year they kept their relationship a secret. They offer a rare behind-the-scenes look at how the experiment really works - from living arrangements and dating prompts to why they focused on building a genuine connection rather than chasing screen time. From their first 8-minute pod date to a real-life wedding, their love story defied the odds. But it wasn’t all smooth sailing. Kieran and Meg speak candidly about trust, drama, and the emotional toll of navigating love on camera while staying true to each other off screen.Kieran & Meg share: ◽️ Why their first 8-minute date changed everything ◽️ How Kieran almost ended up on Love Island ◽️ What it was like keeping their marriage secret for a year ◽️ The real story behind the on-screen drama  ◽️ How their past shaped their present-day relationship ◽️ Why they’re renewing their vows  ◽️ What Love Is Blind taught them about dating with intention Kieran & Meg, We Need To Talk. (0:00) Intro (1:51) Why Meg And Kieran Are On We Need To Talk   (4:35) Meg And Kieran's Relationship History Prior To Being On Love Is Blind   (10:31) How Did Meg And Kieran Come To Be On The Show?   (16:48) What's The Living Situation Like On Love Is Blind?   (18:50) How Does The Initial Dating Work On Love Is Blind?   (20:21) How Did Meg And Kieran Know They Had A Connection From The First Date?   (30:43) How The Next Stage Of The Experiment Works   (37:11) When Did Kieran Know He Loved Meg?   (43:33) The Proposal   (53:29) Adobe Express Ad   (54:29) Tinder Ad   (55:34) How Did The Dramas On The Show Affect Their Relationship?   (01:03:35) Masculinity And Men's Behaviour On Reality TV Shows   (01:10:06) Kieran And Meg's Fashion   (01:12:47) The Marriage Circumstances On Love Is Blind   (01:17:22) Meg's Relationship With Her Father   (01:23:42) Paul's Letter To Meg And Kieran   (01:31:16) Most Memorable Conversation   (01:37:02) Paul's Takeaways  Follow me here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk  https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod Follow Kieran and Meg: Kieran’s Instagram: https://g2ul0.app.link/2mJiQVEyGWb Meg’s Instagram: https://g2ul0.app.link/RrGKc3IyGWb  Sponsored by: Adobe Express: https://ADOBE.LY/PAUL  Tinder: https://tinder.com/en-GB  Get Your Tickets to the Love Better Tour: https://bit.ly/lovebetter-YT  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How many discounts does USAA auto insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi-vehicle discount. Safe driver discount. New vehicle discount. Storage discount. How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit usa.com slash auto discounts. Restrictions apply. Good sleep is everything.

That's why Ali's science back support is made with a blend of melatonin and L-Dienine for both kiddos and grown-ups. So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help. You're racing thoughts and restless nights won't stand a chance. Find Ollie sleep solutions for the whole family at Ollie.com.

That's OLLLY.com. They never will show this on Love is Blind because it would have ruined the show for everyone. But we both witnessed some bad behavior from one guy on the show and Meg hit the roof. What he did was wrong. But it doesn't mean I'm not going to go for a beer with him.

15 boys, 15 girls, dating, but they can't see each other. At the end of that, you have the opportunity to say, I do. I fell in love in a week. That's the truth. We had sexual tension through a war. I knew Kieran was the one,

but that's a difficult place to be. If you're with 15 other girls, it's naturally going to get a bit heated. I had felt a bit overwhelmed at that point, and I was just thinking, are we missing something? I was dating other people, and that is slightly manufactured for TV.

You were in a safer place with me. Yeah, so now, the moment before you see each other, that scared the life at me. nervous about us not connecting physically. You can't hide that on TV. People will see if you are not 100% into the person. But then I was like, that's Meg.

That's the girl I'm in love with. I was just so excited to finally see Karen. You two were truly meant to be together. Why have you chose to tell your story now? If I'm honest. All right, everyone, before we begin, I have to tell you a secret. Truly, one of the biggest honors of my life is, making this podcast. I absolutely love it. I love the conversations and I love speaking to all of you

when I see you either in the DMs or on the street. But I do have a small favor to ask and that is please subscribe to the channel and hit the bell icon. What it allows us to do is bring more and more incredible conversations just like this to you. All right, without further ado, let's get into it. We do need to talk. We do need to talk. We do. And here's where I'd like to begin talking, right? Why have you chose to tell your story here?

I mean, I reached out to your team, if I'm honest, because Meg is a huge fan of yours and the podcast. And she actually introduced me to your podcast not so long ago now. I hadn't heard of it, I hadn't listened to any episodes, and she introduced me, and I loved it. I listened to a few of the episodes you've done, especially with, like, Jordan Stevens and Youngblood, and I was like, okay, this is preaching stuff that I want to preach, and talking about topics that I think are important. So, yeah, I reached out without telling Meg. And I was like, I kind of wanted to, like, make it a bit of a surprise for her. I'm like, you know, this is a treat. I've been like, we're going on your favorite podcast.

And I did that and, yeah, managed to make it work. Yeah, no, that's sweet. Oh, my God, that's an amazing story. Oh, my gosh. So, Meg, what did you, how did you react when Kieran told you that? I was in shock. I was like, surely not. Like, surely not, not me.

How is this happening? No, I've always been a huge fan of yours, Paul. I do have to say so. I've watched, like, all of your shows, like, I've listened to most of the podcasts, and I just think you're amazing. I love the way you speak to people, and I honestly just think you're so wise. Well, yeah, and I'm not the most deep person. I find it really hard to chill, and I actually think listening to your podcast is the only time that I'm like, oh, I can focus and, like, calm myself.

So, yeah, I think you're quite magical. Well, one is, I deeply appreciate that. I appreciate that. And what I also find interesting is that in itself was an act of love. That was an act of love. And I think that's something that shows why you two were truly meant to be together. I have binged all of Love is Blind. I finished it at probably 3 a.m.

Bless you. Eyes twitching. Oh, my gosh. My wife and I'm like, oh, my gosh. And your story is incredible. And what I love to do with this conversation is not only unpack that, but really look at who you two were before. Right? If we can, can we talk about relationships early on?

Yeah. All right, which I know is probably a little awkward now. Sitting next to your husband. Here he's giving the side highlight. But other events in the air, guys, I'll let you guys start. Let's not talk about the detail. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just generally, generally.

Yeah. What would you say your relationship history was prior to the show? I didn't really date when I was like at school. I know like everyone at school would be dating and doing our thing. I think I was just a bit of a, I just wasn't that interested. And I think when I got to leaving school, I had like a long-term boyfriend who was actually my best friend growing up. And yeah, we had a lovely relationship.

but we kind of grew apart because again, I feel like I always knew what I wanted to do. I had such big aspirations. I wanted to move to London. I wanted to dance. I want to do all these crazy things. I feel like it just didn't work out. Okay. Yeah.

And it sounds like it wasn't even a priority to you. Yeah. I think deep down dating and having a partner wasn't my priority. I think I've always been so career-driven and so passionate in what I wanted to do that maybe I'd didn't prioritize relationships as much as others. Okay. Yeah. And I think that was a pattern after that as well.

So after dance college, I had a few boyfriends here and there throughout during contracts and stuff, performers. And it's complicated. Obviously, contracts a short term in the dance world and say, I would go on a cruise ship for six months, be traveling around the world, and I'd be in a certain time zone.

And then my partner would be on. land and it's how you communicate, how do you make that happen? And also at a young age, I feel like I was learning. It's all a learning curve. Yeah, and I think it was just a bit much, a bit much for me. Yes. We had Karen Howard. Yes, they listened to that one. Yes, on, who was on strictly, right? And it's interesting because she would say the same thing in terms of the challenges that a dancer has because of the project, project length, the travel, etc. But What I've also noticed with Karen and other dancers I've talked to is highly disciplined. Yeah.

Highly structured. Would you say that's the case? I should actually ask you, you care. Would you say that's the case? When it comes to your career, yes. I don't necessarily think outside of that makes the most structured. I would say I'm kind of the structural ones. Like if we go on holidays, I'm the one like helping with the planning.

I've got the spreadsheet, you know. Yeah. No, you are. It's more of a free spirit. I would say. Yeah. But you are very focused when it comes to dance. That's something she is very focused on.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think you've hit nail on the head. So can we talk about your relationships? Yes. Okay. Yeah.

So now, from what I understand, you were in a long term committed relationship prior to the show. Yes. So I met my ex at university. So we were together for seven years. We, you know, we had a fantastic. relationship. I still think very highly of her and I haven't got a bad word to say about her. She's an amazing person. We went through a lot of life change together, you know, graduating university, moving down to London for the first time, moving in together. We bought a house together.

We had a dog together. We did all of the steps that you do prior to ultimately locking in for life. and yeah, I got to the point where truthfully, I mean, truthfully, I don't, I don't love speaking about this relationship because I still very much care about her and don't ever want her to be brought into the conversation negatively because she's never done anything wrong and she's, yeah, as I say, she's amazing person. But I just personally got to the point where I never saw that next step happening. I never saw her as the mother of my children. and I never saw us getting married.

Like I never got to that point. And I really struggled with that. Like I really wrestled with that for years. Like I was probably prior to me initiating the breakup, I was probably thinking about it, if I'm honest, for over a year prior to that. Because it wasn't an easy thing to do because I had so much love for her.

And, you know, yeah, thought the world of her. I, to put her through that was a really difficult decision for me. You know, just on that note, Karen, I think a lot of people may be not or may not be surprised to hear you say that a year prior to the breakup, you had begun to consider that because on average in a committed relationship, that is the timeline. Right. It's roughly a year where you begin to say, should I? Should I not? Yeah. And then you talk yourself in, you talk yourself out.

Yeah. You know, so that, that seems on par. Prior to the show, you had one long-term relationship. Yeah. Didn't date much. I had sort of, I think it's mentioned on the show that I had like a year. It was actually more like two years between that and going on the show. So I did have some time as a single person dating in London,

utilising dating apps, going through that crazy dating app world that is just an absolute mess. and I think we all know that. I did that for a bit, yeah, probably about a year. Okay. So, and Meg, had you had a long-term committed relationship prior to the show? My longest relationship was when I was about 16. So, yeah, like very young. Very young.

But as an adult, no. No, everything was pretty short-term. Okay. Yeah. Okay, fair, fair. So then that leads us to how do you find out about love is blind? And then what inspires you to take part in it? So I was always a huge fan of the show.

I watched every single series. I love the whole concept of them dating without seeing each other. Like, obviously, that's the total opposite to dating in real life. Yes. It's all on apps. It's all about how you look. So I love that concept. And I always said, I was like, imagine this coming to the UK.

Like, how would that work? So I feel like British people were just so different. And I just seen people on the first episode going, I'm in love. I'm in love. And I was like, I just don't think British people are like that. I think we're a bit more reserved. And I think I didn't understand how British people would get to that point that they would get engaged at the end of it.

And then, lo and behold, announcement, Love is by New K is coming. And it just popped up on my Instagram, apply. And I just thought, you know what? Spice up your life, Meg. Like, why not go for it? Yeah, just applied. And then went through the process and then one day was cast.

Couldn't believe it. Couldn't believe it. Couldn't believe it. So you applied not really thinking you would land on the show. No. Okay. No, I didn't think about it at all.

I didn't even tell anyone that I'd applied and then was going through the rounds. And then I think it was when I went to the offices in London and had an in-person and they measured my ring finger. And I was like, oh, that's, That's quite a big thing.

Like you're measuring my ring finger like, what? And then we had an interview and it got really emotional. Yeah, and then they cast me. I just couldn't, honestly, I couldn't believe it. But again, I just felt like, right, well, I guess this is my path. I guess this is the calling. Like, this is what I should go for. Yeah, so that's how I ended up for the show.

So now, Kieran, different situation for you? So, like, I'm relatively newly single. And I'm on the dating apps, you know. And I was on a date with a girl and she said to me, you would be really good on Love Island. I was like, well, this is a really weird. Green fake, bro. I was like, I was like, I don't know how to take that as like a comment on a date.

On a first date, like, I don't know how to take this. But she planted a seed in my head and I went home after the date and I applied for Love Island that night. After a few drinks, I was like, I was applied to Love Island. I was like, see what happens, right? It's obviously a long, quite a while ago now. And then I basically, I went through the whole, long story short, I went through the whole process of casting for Love Island. And I got cast on Love Island.

So I was cast as a bombshell on the series of Love Island prior to our series of Love Island. That process was like quite long. It was almost like I was in casting for Love Island for like eight months or something ridiculous. So I was quite a long process. but in the end they basically cast me and I signed a contract with ITV and I was cast on Love Island. Now, my mum was horrified

she was like, this is not a show for you, Kira and like, you're not that, that's not you. A lot of my family shared the same sentiment. Some of my friends just thought, well, that's just hilarious. Yeah, you should definitely do that. Like, that's funny. So anyway, I was cast on Love Island

as a bombshell. Never got on the show. So never actually got dropped into the village. Oh my gosh. Were you sequestered because they take the, those are the bombshells. Yeah, I never, I never even got out to the little holding villa. So they must have loads of us in this bombshell section. I don't know how it works.

I'm not casting. He's not holding you all. But they must have, they were ringing me sort of every three days being like, you know, who are you interested in on the show? And obviously, depending on what answers you give, will depend on whether you are getting dropped into the villa or not, right? Anyway, so I did this and then didn't go on the show. And then, as you'll probably know, a lot of the people that work in TV are freelance.

So they jump around shows. And one of the casting people was then on Love is Blind. And my sort of exclusivity period with Love Island ended at the end of the show. And they rang me the day after. And we're like casting for this new, this other show and this is way more you. Like, we want you involved. I've already like sent all of your stuff to the like lead people. They're really interested.

We've got one more slot for a for a man on the show. Oh, and by the way, we're filming in three weeks. And I was like, wait, what? And I didn't even really know the show. Like, I didn't know Love is Blind that well. Like I'd seen clips, but I didn't really know it. So I was like, well, just give me a day, watched as much Love is blind as I could in the next day

just to try and get grips to the show. And I was like, oh, it's quite a nice show. Like, the thing I was scared of was like, am I, you know, am I in a position where I'm ready for all that? And I think I had a lot of conversations with friends, family. And I was like, John, I'm really open to this social experiment. Never thought I would actually get married or like I would meet the one, right? Like that was never even a realistic thought in my head.

But I was like, I'm open to the social experiment, put your phone away, date with intention for two weeks. Even if I don't actually make it onto the show and get, you know, get any air time. cool experience like what have I what have I got to lose that was kind of my approach so yeah got through the casting in about a week which is probably a record for reality tvs yeah um and yeah got cast in the show two weeks later was on a flight um to go and film the show thank the lord goodness yeah that is the story that's the story that was worth it yeah sorry that was a full background oh that was worth it yeah wow that's amazing yeah that is amazing yeah that is amazing You look at how this union perhaps might not have happened.

Yeah, that's how the world works, right? It's crazy. Very thankful of the call from that casting producer. Yeah, I'm so. Keepets. And I'm curious with the setup because we never see the actual living quarters, although they're called living quarters. But I would imagine you live together?

What are you, in dorms? We're actually in a hotel. Yeah, we don't want to spoil the magic in the TV too much, but we don't live in the living quarters. And the girls and boys are obviously kept separate. So completely separate. Like we never saw any of the girls throughout filming. Taxis take us to separate hotels and then back to the set and the set is like very regimented, isn't it?

Yeah. People take you to the toilet and stuff. Like you're like your babysat while you're on set so that you don't accidentally walk into the girls. That makes sense. You can hear each other. So like the girls would be like, whoa boy. And the boy do they're like, what are like? And you can hear each other and we'd be like,

Who's that? Yeah, trying to guess. Oh my God, I think that's Kyrin. Oh my gosh. And also, too, I think it's important for anyone who's not watched Love is Blind. How would you explain the premise of the show? Well, it's 15 boys, 15 girls dating with a wall in between them, so you can't see each other. And basically, you've got two weeks the date and hopefully finding a connection.

to possibly propose at the end. And then after that, you end up going on a holiday together, they're living together three weeks, and then at the end of that, you have the opportunity to say, I do at the end of the aisle. It's a pretty good synopsis how the show works.

Yeah. That was very good, yeah. And the I do at the end of the aisle, that is, from what I understand, that is a legal marriage. It's a, yeah. Lots of people think it's not, but it is.

It's illegally binding marriage, yeah. You go, what you don't see is off, off screen. We go into the side and we sign all the papers like on that day. And it's all, yeah, all legally binding. That's legit. Look at that. Now, going back to you entering the experiment, okay, Meg, you mentioned it's two weeks. Yeah.

So in the two weeks, do all 15 of the boys date all 15 of the girls? So you actually talk to everyone. Yes. Yeah. Oh, I'm like, how do you do? Like, even logistically, how do you do that? Like, so if you can, how do you do that? What's the schedule?

So the first day, you date everyone. Yeah. Eight minute dates. It's like speed dating. Okay. So you get eight minutes. So what you see on the screen on our first date, that literally was eight minutes. Like we're banging out all that information.

So you're like, hi, how are you? I'm nervous. Okay, so where are you from? What do you do? Like, literally getting as much information you can. Exactly that. Yeah. You date.

Essentially, you start whittling it down. on the things you learn over the course of the two weeks until you're left with a few people that maybe you're still dating towards the end who you have an interest in. And then obviously, yeah, you've got to make a decision. Make a decision. Yeah.

So you both, clearly, you must remember that first day, that first interact. Yeah, you had it. Yes. So Meg was my first date of the entire experience and I was her first date of the entire experience, which is crazy. And we were in point one.

And we were in pod one. and it was the first date and they never will show this on the show because it would have ruined the show for everyone but I walked out of that eight minute date and I shouted to all the boys in the corridor I was like I'm done guys I found the one I'm done eight minutes

no joke and Meg was number one from day one and stayed there the whole time so then the question must be asked how within eight minutes did you know Meg was the one it's such difficult question to ask like I don't like the word vibes but it's like you just get this feeling of there was that initial spark you get that feeling of

like energies matching it's like okay we're on each other's wavelength when it comes to matching each other's energy but then just like a sense of comfortability and like calmness when you're talking um and we got that from the first eight minute date and i was like well this feels really nice like that that's that's that's kind of that's that's that's kind of how i felt i was just like this feels really nice i feel really happy yeah that is bang on. Like, I was so nervous going in. She was standing in front of that door for ages and they're like waiting as long as possible and they're like, right, in you go. And I was like, walked in. I even said then. I was like, I'm kind of so nervous when I walked in. The first thing you did was giggle. Yeah. The first thing I ever heard of Meg was her giggling, which is obviously very Meg.

And I was like, and she was like, this is my first day. I'm really nervous. And I was like, the voice mine as well. Like, we'll take, walk each other through this. Let's hold each other's hands through this. So it was that initial like, we both got each other, you know, we got each other's backs here. It was like even before we'd even knew each other's names, like that, you know, I was like, it's fine, we've got each other,

let's calm, let's have a little conversation. I was like, oh, okay, already, tell, a tautil, so it's like before we've even known each other's names, I was already like, wow, I can feel like something happening here. So it was the same for, you would you say, Meg, that you felt something.

Yeah, oh yeah. It wasn't necessarily what was said, but what was felt. Yeah. And that's mad considering we couldn't even see each other. I'm just looking at a wall and I can feel that from Kieran just from his voice. It's really weird. It's really weird to explain. That is the most like baffling thing about this which is so hard to explain is that feeling

that you can get through the pod wall just from a voice and it's more intimate than a phone call. because you're in the same room. So I don't know. It's really, you just, you can get a, you can get a feeling just through the wall. I mean, if we nerded out on this a little bit, because I mean, this is the category that I love. Yeah. Is that I, um, so in full transparency, my first time seeing love is mine was seeing this. Oh, really?

Yeah. Now, my wife was watched it all. Oh, love. Like every season in the U.S., the UK, like she watches it all. But this was my first time. watching it. And I got the gist of the concept, but watching what you're saying, Karen, is like, you could see that there is a level of intimacy that you have without being able to see each other. Yes. And when I look at that, I thought, and you tell me, because you were in it, is when you

remove sight, there's more emphasis placed on other senses. Yes, that's one, right? Secondly, is that attraction, a lot of people don't calculate this, but attraction has, to a large degree is based on tone, pacing, pitch, right? And you are more attuned to those without the distraction of the physical. Yeah. Right. So that's part of it. I think also the fact that you're in this unique experience together and you were experiencing this thing literally for the first time, first time, pod one, right? Like all of these, I think, plays a role in that. Yeah. Would you say that that's like that is the case yeah i mean you you've kind of articulated the science better than i could because i know nothing about it but from my experience of it is exactly that like you're so

focused on everything that that the that the man is saying through the wall how she's saying it um the how it's making you feel the way she's you know because it's not just the words right it's not just if i think you can say things that are reassuring and not reassure the person yes But the way that she was reassuring me and the way that she was saying those things made me feel reassured. And there's a difference in that. And you probably pay way more attention to that than if you're shouting at someone in a bar or over a drink face to face. Yeah. All I could hear was Kieran's voice for sometimes up to three hours.

And the way that you can talk to each other throughout that time, it's just, it's honestly magical. I would recommend that experience to anyone and everyone. because it's just you'll never experience anything like it. I mean, there's only 30 men and 30 women in the UK that I've had that experience. Look at that. And so it's hard to explain it. But I unfortunately don't have any single friends. But if I did, I'd be like, guys, you need to apply for this show.

Yeah. Because the experience that you get from it, even my, I've made some mates from the show, right, that don't get featured because they didn't find a connection. They had the best time of because. with that. It's on two weeks of the social experiment, dating with intention, putting all the outside distractions, phones, all of that stuff, even just other people, like, giving you their thoughts and feelings on people.

Like, you don't really, you block that out and you just focus on what you're thinking, what you're feeling. And it's weird. You're obsessed with dating in that period. All I thought about every night going to bed, I couldn't sleep a lot of nights. And I'm a very good sleeper, but I couldn't sleep a lot of nights because I was just thinking, what am I going to say to Megan tomorrow? want to know about her.

Like, you get absolutely obsessed with it, which is so weird. No, it's beautiful. You know, I think, like, what is the lesson for those that will not be able to participate in an experience like that? And one lesson that I pull away is the importance of focusing on how you feel based on the communication that you're receiving, not just what the words are, but how you feel with those words land. Are there any other lessons that you would say people can apply to their lives?

I think that, you know, based on what you've learned in this experiment. I think just focusing on, like, yourself, what you want and just dating with intention, I think, is like the biggest thing, isn't it? And lots of people since the show, even if it didn't work out on the show, have ended up in relationships. Well, look at that. Because they have learned how to date. They've learned, oh, actually, I'm scared of usually asking that question. But actually, that's a question that I really want to ask. And that's something I want to know from a partner.

So I'm going to ask that. And people are less afraid, aren't they, to ask those questions that are really important to them. And they are finding their people and they're finding the people that can reciprocate that. So it's so interesting. That's nail on the head from Megan there because it's feeling comfortable to ask uncomfortable questions. There's like no judgment because you're all going through the experiment.

And I feel like on dates, people feel like they can't ask certain things because they feel like there's judgment. we were, and not a lot of people know this, but you do get some prompts from some of like the dating experts on the show and they will give you prompts of like, oh, you could talk about this today, you could talk about this today. And they can actually be quite helpful. Oh, yeah.

Because it sort of frames the discussion. It lets you have a focus of what you want to achieve from that day, which makes it sound really business transactional, which maybe is why it works well for me. But, you know, it helped me to go, I really want to know X, Y and Z. by the time I leave that pod for Megan. So please tell us what were some of those prompts.

And also, were any of those prompts written in the notebook? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. We'd get like a daily. Yeah, like a prompt. And some of them wouldn't be like, like, something that I just crossed out and be like,

that's not relevant to me because, yeah, might be relevant to other people. But the ones that were relevant, it did spark conversation. And it's nice. So sometimes I've been like, oh, I never thought to ask that. Like, lovely, we'll be asking that today. Like, it does really help you. And obviously day to day, you don't have that help.

Yes. So it's nice. What were some of the prompts that stood out to you that you feel were most effective? Oh, it's harder. I can tell you the weirdest one. The weirdest one is around sexual intimacy. Because to talk about that through a wall when you can't see the person, you don't know if you're physically attracted to the person is a really interesting part of the experiment.

And to see if you have that connection through the wall, I found that fascinating personally. And we did. Like we had that sexual tension that you kind of want in a, in a relationship, through a wall, which is mad. But how did, because I heard you both say that you had the sexual tension? Yeah. But how do you determine that if you can't see the person? I think we just like, we were just like having a bit of a flirt, weren't we? And like, the silences.

Like sometimes, you know what when people choose to be silent, it tells you a lot. And like, you could feel like she was like being a little giggly schoolgirl on the other side and like, oh, you know. I could feel that. I could feel that. Oh, we'd be like, oh. Moving on from that question. Oh, like. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. It's weird. That's the weirdest bit. Probably not the most important part of that dating period, but it was probably the strangest prompt for me. Yeah.

Like you could feel that through just voice and conversation. Yeah. But they're not really hard. You are the ones like, you know, like, um, delving into family. Like you see probably the moment realistically that we, well, that I fell in love. I shouldn't say we. Because you told me later in the, in the process. But certainly when I fell in love was when we started talking about families.

And really we got really deep. And you only see like a snippet of it on the show. But it got, yeah, it got really deep. And I opened up about things that I haven't even told my best friends, which is, you know, insane. And some of that's not aired. But that was the moment when I like, yeah, I knew because of the way Meg reacted and made me feel in that moment.

Yeah, I've never experienced that in my life, to be honest. So that was probably the moment for me. Wow. Wow. You know, if we could even talk about the scheduling of it, and I want to come back and talk about that moment of you falling in love. So you're on the first date, first day. Yeah.

It's only eight minutes. Yep. Right. Then what becomes the schedule then? Is it you have to identify if you like that person. Do you rate them? You rate them. You rate them, zero to ten?

15. Zero to 15. Yeah. Oh, okay. Oh, sorry. So out of 15 people, it's like 1 to 15, so you just put them like in order. Oh, wow.

So it's quite savage. Like, it's quite a... I really struggled with that, like, emotionally. I was like, like, I feel awful. Like, just like ranking people, but they're doing it to you. So I guess... But there are some fundamentals from day one that if you don't align on, there's no point in continuing because you are dating with attention

and you're dating to find a wife. mother of your children, all those things. Some people, the whole children thing wasn't even relevant for them, right? Right. So as soon as I know that, that's then, for me, it's like, well, this doesn't work. Or, you know, even just you talk about

where you're at in life, maybe ages. You know, there was quite a range of age. We were actually some of the youngest people on the show. Yeah. So it was quite a range of ages. Some people younger than us, a lot, you know, a lot older than us. And yeah, I think it, I think those things initially can be like,

you know. down. Yeah. Yeah. Were you both each other's number one? The whole time. Yeah. The whole time.

Okay. But how does the conversation when you go back to the groups, how does that impact your relationship? Because I think we saw that somewhat play out with someone that you were dating here in. And that person going back to the other girls suggesting that she was in a close relationship with Karen. Yeah. So how did all that dialogue, you think, impact you, the impact among your peers?

Personally, in the lounge, I just took everything with a pinch of salt. I feel like it's very easy to be impacted by everybody else's conversations and their opinions of the boys. Everyone's dating the boys. And that's a difficult place to be if you're with 15 other girls. I mean, it's naturally going to get a bit heated. Like, everyone wants to meet someone. So, yeah, it can get a bit tricky.

And I was very aware of that. I feel like as a dancer as well, I've been in lots of situations like that. So I just told everyone what was going on. I'd love to say that I was completely bulletproof. But there was one moment where Megan had told me that she was basically breaking it off with someone. Although, I don't think we ever mentioned names,

but I'd figured out who I'd put two and two years ago I knew who this this boy was and he came back from his date which I knew was with Megan like smiling loads and saying oh that was a really interesting date and I was like

I had to put trust in that what Megan was saying was the truth and not what I was hearing from the chatter and that's a really interesting test of a relationship and when we went back in the room together and one of the girls had been trying to sway Megan's opinion on me

for her not to not to listen to that opinion and trust me was also another, it made me like her more, if I'm honest. It made me more interested in her because I was like, okay, she trusts me. And that makes me really interested. Yeah, it's so interesting because it's not just the dates. Like the whole experiment actually is you being put with 14 other girls, you've been put with 14 other boys.

Yeah, you don't think about that really when you're going in. You're thinking, oh, it's the dates. But actually, it's how you deal with it and how you trust the person you're dating to get to that point. Yes. There's like a gamification almost. Yeah. And from the reality television that I've done, I've noticed, and this is terrible to say, but this is just, and this is my experience. I've almost exclusively done love slash dating reality TV.

Yeah. And what I've found with the contributors is that everyone has an interest in dating or in love to a certain degree, but there are other competing interests. Or I shouldn't say competing because it's not mutually exclusive, but there are other interests. that they have. A hundred percent. Brand building. I want to become an influencer, etc.

Yeah. And I would imagine that that's the same case on the show. Yep. But the challenge, though, is you don't know when you're in that pot. What the other person's incentives are. Yeah. Yeah. Really interesting.

Yeah. But how do you do it, though? It's like, how do you do it? You have to basically just put yourself out there and trust. And if you get burnt, you get burnt. Yeah. which obviously does happen to people on the show. We know there are other incentives going on reality TV.

We're not idiots, right? Like we spoke about that really openly early on actually in our relationship. When we're in Cyprus on the holiday, we were like, look, we know there's potential here of a brand being built. And we need to stay honest about that because if we ever are not on the same page about that, that's going to cause issues in our relationship. So we early on addressed that, which I think was so important. But our primary thing was just to find someone. And yeah, we did that.

Your story was a true love story where what I've noticed with true love stories is they're easy. Yeah, it was easy. You know, they're almost boring. Yeah, we got scared. We were like, we're going to be so boring. We were like, we're going to get TV time. And then we were like, actually, maybe you were just boring. We had no drama.

Like, we, we were so, it was so easy. It still is really easy. Like, it's always been easy. The whole thing was easy. and hearing from other people or we're really struggling with these bits and we're like, are we missing something? Should we have had like a massive argument or something?

Yeah, like, we're always going for other people or we're like, oh, God. This is actually really easy. Yeah. And this is the way it typically is in high satisfaction. Right. Relationships, right? So now, Karen, you mentioned that moment

that you knew you were in love. Yeah. With Meg, right? And Meg said it a little bit later. Yeah, a little bit later. It's a little bit later. A couple weeks later. A few weeks.

Guys. She said it. But now what I'm curious about is how many days were you in the experiment before you knew? So before you said I love you, but before you knew you loved her. It's probably about three days before the whole, will you marry me, peace? The last day. So it's probably within, I felt in love in a week. Yeah.

Fell in love in a week. That's the truth. Yeah. I mean, it's bad, but I mean, it's true. Like,

it's just, that's how it is. Completely. He owns it, is like, Yeah, I've never said those words out.

But, you know, yeah, it's true. It's true. 100%. It was, it was,

I mean, explaining what love is is an impossible task, right? I can't sit here and explain to you what love is. But for me,

I just had, I was, I used the word obsessed quite, lot because I just felt obsessed with Megan, like the way she made me feel, the amount of fun we had on our dates, like the thought of spending the rest of my life with that, even at that point, I haven't even met the girl. Like, I was obsessed with the whole thing. I was just obsessed. So that's love for me. Okay. So, said, Meg, you weren't there in a week, but he was

tops for you. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. He was always, yeah, talk for me. I knew Karen was the one. He was the one. Yeah. But now what must be, and maybe it wasn't playing out in your mind is you must be well, what does she look like there? Yeah. Oh, 100%. We'd actually spoken about the day before we knew we were going to meet each other. So, yeah, after I had proposed, we then had a very brief conversation of like, should we write down what each other we think each other looks like?

Because it'd be really funny to compare that. Because we actually did the experiment properly and we did not say at all what we looked like. So I had no idea. I thought Meg was 570, like 5.8, so not miles up. off similar sort of build that you are but I thought she was I thought her tattoos were a little bit more visible and I thought she was brunette with a fringe which you now do have but you didn't have at the time brunette fringe bit edgy looking that was kind of that was the vibe I got from meg obviously I was completely wrong and pleasantly surprised that she's beautiful but yeah I had no

idea but I was I was thinking about it you were thinking about sure Meg what did you think kieran looked like before you saw him I guessed him to a tea oh really yeah I predicted. I was like, I can tell what this boy looks like. I feel like we'd been speaking for so long and we like in such depth. And obviously,

he was like, I live in Tooting. I'd go out in pear tree. I was like, I know, I know exactly what you. I can literally see it in my brain. And I wrote it down.

I still have the piece of paper, don't I? I ripped out my book, which I wasn't supposed to do, but I was like, I'm keeping this. Wrote it down. I was like six,

I think I said six two. Six two and choose, guys. You're like six. I think, I think you're six two. I think you six two. Yeah. Nixie two.

Mousy blonde hair. I was like short back and sides long on top. I was like he's got like an athletic build like footballer-esque. Honestly, he's true T. And I saw him and I was like, Meg, world. I was like I am mystic Meg. I could just tell. It's mad.

All right. We have to get to the moment where you two saw each other. That must be cemented in your mind. Crazy. But right before that you have to propose. So you are almost two weeks in. Yeah. You know in your heart you love her.

Yeah, you're probably thinking about her every night. Yeah. Meg, are you thinking about hearing every night? Oh, every night. Every night. Every night. Yeah, there's like everything like all the time. All the time.

Okay. I dream, though, I met like three times throughout the experiment in my dreams, yeah. Obviously, she didn't look like this, but. Yeah, he told me that in the pods and I was like, I don't know how to say that. I was like, that probably isn't me who you're thinking of. You know, I'm trying to put myself in your shoes. So literally, you're just thinking about each other 24-7. Yeah.

Yeah. It's obsessive. It's weird. Amazing, though. Really cool. Yeah. It's very strange. I actually, I was the earliest person in the experiment to sort of make like quite a grand gesture.

I sort of sent a gift round via the producers to make. And that was actually really early on. So I put my eggs in Meg's basket a lot earlier than other people had. Even though I continued to do the experiment like we spoke about to its fullest extent, I knew very early on that Meg was running away with it. All right. Was this the ornament? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that caused a little bit of... It caused a little bit of... Because it caused a bit of a staff. But it sounds like you always knew she was number one, so it didn't matter to you. I was... I'm going to give everyone the time in the experiment to, you know, to try and challenge my theory that Meg is the one.

But it just, yeah, nothing ever got close. So, you know, this is... You don't have to answer. or this, but this is my opinion, just knowing reality television and how it's cut, is in the show, it's depicted that there's someone else who's like a rival to make for you. When I looked at that, I never thought she was a rival. Was she ever a rival? It is, it was a, I was dating other people, not just the one person you see in the show. I was dating multiple other people at that point on the show. And that is a slightly manufactured love triangle, which,

you know, is for TV and we know that. Yeah, it's entertainment. Yeah. You know, so how I, the reason why I thought that is because you showed up differently when you were talking to her verse you were talking to Meg. Yeah. Like you were just in what appeared to be a safer place. Yeah.

With, with, with Meg. Yeah. So I thought, okay, this is, this is a good TV. Yeah. That's, that's really what it is. That is really what is. And my, you know, my mates that know me will watch that and sort of message. me and we're like we can tell that that's just that's just TV yeah like it's not yeah it's not you're

not in the room properly in those in those clips they they know fair yeah so then you propose karen all right yes magical moment right what's going through your mind meg when you hear the words will you marry me in essence right and you don't you can't see him you know you're on a show but you know that if you say yes you are on the pathway to a legal binding marriage a real marriage Yeah I think in the very moment that

he said will you marry me I was just like completely fuzzy I was in hysterical tears at the time as well which probably didn't help I think my I was just in such disbelief as to where I was in that moment yeah I was just in such disbelief I don't think I even thought about

what was coming next I think I was just so in that moment right then. I was just over the moon. My heart was racing 100 miles an hour. And ultimately, I think I was just so excited to finally see Kieran. I knew that now this is happening. I'm going to see him tomorrow. I'm going to see this man.

And we're going to cause habit. But yeah, I think I was just so overly excited, like, in disbelief. I think that's the way I could describe it. It's so fun for me being able to watch Meg on the other side, received that proposal because obviously i didn't get to watch that so i watching it back we got to recreate all of those memories that my memory of that is obviously just of a purple wall not of meg's reaction so it's quite nice to be able to like recreate those memories yeah yeah special moment yeah and then obviously meg you said yes and that means that the following day you can see each other yes

all right so now the moment before you see each other god adrenaline through the roof. Yes. Most, most adrenaline I've ever had in my life. Really? Yes.

Yes. Like shaking. I'm quite calm. Oh, you know. Yeah, no, everyone's saying this to me like, you must be, I think, because you'd have 24 hours, okay, I've had the stress.

I'm trying to figure out what am I going to wear. I need to look sensational for him. Like, I need to be. So I think I'd had all the stress. I was like, right, I love my outfit. I feel like I'm feeling good. And I was like, I already felt like I knew what Kieran looked like as well.

So I think I trusted myself so deeply. I was so calm. I was so not calm. I was just excited. Opposite. Are you more nervous about you disappointing her or Meg not living up to the expectation that you had? That's actually a really good question. And I'm not dodging the question.

I actually don't know which one I was. I was nervous about both of those things. So I was basically nervous about us not connecting in physically, like physically. and like they're being either me like just not quite feeling it or I could just get that feeling from Meg. She's not quite feeling it and it just not being natural. That scared the life out of me because you can't hide that on TV. Like you people will see if you are not 100% into the person. Yes.

Thankfully that wasn't my experience. But that was what my nervousness was. And so Meg, you weren't concerned at all. No, I feel like I definitely thought about. about it. I thought, oh, it'd be really bad if it is awkward. But I think because we'd had this whole two weeks, like, these deep conversation, we had a giggle, like, we just connected so deeply. I just didn't worry about that. I was like, we've already done that. Like, I know him, like, I know him so well. So it really is just the physical now. Yes. And I think I actually

was so past that point. I don't think it actually would have really mattered, even though I did have an idea but yeah i i'd convince myself it doesn't matter i convinced myself like i'm in love with this girl it does not matter what she looks like but i couldn't tell you if i if i walked through there and i just didn't have that i didn't have a physical attraction to meg maybe it would have made a difference i don't know i've never been in that situation before right to see to see but it probably you i don't know i have no idea it's tricky and like also like about myself i'm thinking yeah did i ever think like i don't is it's a i don't it's really hard to think of it. I think this is such an interesting topic. Yeah. Here's what the nerd

me says. So I know you said you've got a nerd deep down. I have a big nerd. I'm a good. So deep down is I would argue that the strength of your emotional connection played a significant role in your perceived physical attraction. Probably true. Yeah. Because you see this play out in sex all the time is that couples who have a stronger emotional connection have higher satisfaction sex. And you ask, well, why is that? It's because you feel so safe with the person that you feel like you can explore everything.

Yeah. And then also, I think there's a combined self-esteem element that's at play. I would argue that you both have a high level of self-esteem. So therefore, there's no search for external validation. You know, it's not about, well, how does Meg look with me? Yeah. It's just how do I think she looks?

Yeah, yeah. It's not how does Kieran look to the world? It's how do I view him? Yeah. And I would argue that both your strength of your emotional connection, your high self-esteem did play a role in that physical attraction. I think so for sure. I think that's right.

I was instantly attracted physically. You look that way. Yeah. But it probably, yeah, it comes from that's Meg. That's the girl I'm in love with. Like that's probably the initial thing. And then, yeah, I mean, I also really fancied her, which is great. Yeah.

Did you plan the kiss or it just, no. Oh, yeah, you can't plan that. No, no. I wanted to hug you first because I felt like I wanted to like embrace her first. And then I think I like stepped back. I thought of the kiss on you, I. And then you just flew in. And I was like, yes, let's go.

Yes, yes, yes. This is good. So now also, do you feel a. sense of relief because you now know you've got the emotional you're the physical now it's like it's pure excitement then it's just yeah we take off together oh yeah yeah yeah it's pure excitement then then then i was just so excited um it's almost like being on a hike wasn't it well you were just like this is unreal yeah i was so cool this is so cool we didn't want to leave because it's quite short that meeting how long is it five five seven a bit longer than that i reckon it's like 10 15

they don't tell you but i reckon it's about 10 15 but it feels like it goes like that. And then you're being told, right, you need to separate you and you'll see each other in Cyprus, which, by the way, it's three days later. So you don't see each other. So you don't see each other for a bit. And it's horrible.

It's horrible. Short period, you have that massive explosion of emotions. And then it's like, right? See ya. See ya. Separation. Back in your hotel rooms, right? See, you never.

Separate for three days. Oh my gosh. That's why you're saying goodbye. Like, you don't want to stop saying goodbye as the door is closing. Yeah, yeah. Like, you don't even fly in together. It's like you. All separate.

Separately. Separately. Separate hotels, separate everything. You see each other and then, yeah. Okay, okay. So how was Cyprus? You have more of the reality TV element at play. Yeah. You know, so how did you find that time? The cameras in your face are a bit weird to get used to, aren't they? Yeah, it was very odd.

Obviously, it's the first day that we've seen each other after three days. So we're still like this, like, hello. Oh, you are real. You are real. I'm like looking at his hands like, wow. Oh, like, okay, this is my fiancé? We're in Cyprus, okay? And we were just... But we were like this.

Yeah, oh yeah. This was, that was the most amazing thing was we were like we are now straight away. Yeah, we were very lucky. Very tactile, very like all over each other. But what I will say is in general, we had the best time in Cyprus. We just loved. I mean, ultimately, we were on holiday together in a beautiful place, five-star resort. you know

Netflix's card on the room service thank you very much you can't really argue with that and yes we had too lots of filming we did have time on just ourselves as well not loads but we did have time to ourselves

and we just had the best time I don't we spoke to some of the other couples and I don't think they had the best time which is also a telling in my opinion but we actually just loved it didn't we? Yeah there was drama going on that we had no idea about so like at the pool party

there's like conversations happening. And we were with these couples for four weeks from that point. And we had no idea about half of the stuff that was even going on. I think we were just like, just having a great time. You get to those mixes where all the couples are mingling. And the producers would be like, right, can you go and speak to X? Or you know how it goes, right? You go to X.

We often just said no. And we were like, actually, we want to hang out together. Interesting. which you start to realize you do have the power to push back. Yeah. You don't initially realize that. But you start to realize, oh, actually, if I don't want to do this, I'd just say no and then I don't have to do it. Yeah.

And we just decided that this experiment is about us. As much as I actually do get on with all of those boys on the show and love them, like, great, great people. I've got time after this that I can build those friendships more and, you know, spend time with them. I've got a very short amount of time to get to know this lady as well as I'm. I can before I bloody decide to marry her. I'm going to spend every minute I can with her. So I actually did that and Meg did that too. So we didn't actually hang out with the other people that much.

We just spent all of our time together. Yeah, our priorities were with each other. Yeah. And we kind of, I think the producer's got that quite quickly. They were like, we won't ask her again. What you are talking about right now, I think is a massive topic that is not discussed enough when it comes to reality TV and the love genre. And that is exactly what you said.

If you don't want to do it, you don't have to do it. Yeah. And I think this speaks to the incentive in almost your North Star on the project. Yeah. Right. So if it is to find love, that's the top. Yeah. And you feel like I'm finding it.

Yeah. You're good. Yeah, yeah. You know? But if the North Star is brand building, maybe you say yes every time. time the producer asked you to do something. Yeah. Paul's about to show you a presentation he made

in Adobe Express, so you better be nice. You might not know this, but I am the proud co-owner of the mighty Sutton United Football Club, and this year, I had the honor of designing our away kit. First things first, Sutton Amber, Black, the crest, the

fonts, locked in with our sponsor Adobe Express's brand kit. I was presenting to the board, and the story I wanted to tell was that were modern. We're sleep. Yes, we were founded in 1898, but we're still a club that belongs in 2025. I wanted everyone from a 10-year-old to a 90-year-old in the stands to say, I want that. All over Sutton United Script pattern, Mono Crest, Amber Trim, I obsessed over the collar.

Okay, Paul, are you ready? Yes! Yes! Yes! Look at that! Look at them! That is it! That is it!

Yes. Got a pitch to make? Adobe Express is the quick. easy and free app to create anything like this presentation. Have you ever been on a date where you're trying so hard to just be yourself that suddenly it feels impossible? You start overthinking everything, how to sit normally, what to do with your hands, then you end up doing something weird like this. Now let's flip that. I want you to think about how you are when you're with your best friend. It's usually when we're our truest selves.

And when you're in that zone, it's actually a great time to meet someone new. In that setting, you're naturally thriving. It's why our sponsor, Tinder, created their new double date feature, where you and your bestie can connect with other single pairs. Instead of that high-pressure one-on-one environment, now you're at a group hang. Conversation flows better, and if you stumble, your bestie is literally right there to catch you. If solo dating makes you act like a glitchy version of yourself, invite a friend. friend along. Download Tinder

today and try double date because everything is better with your bestie. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough to get lost. Or you could book a stay

with Hilton. Welcome to your ocean front room. Just steps from the water. The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay.

Hilton, for the stay. Wishing you could be there live for the big game, soaking up the atmosphere in the crowd. But too often, life gets busy. Or the price holds you back. Price line is here to help you make it happy. With millions of deals on flights, hotels, and rental cars,

you can go see the game live. Don't just dream about the game. trip, book it with Priceline. Download the Priceline app or visit Priceline.com. Actual prices may vary, limited time offer. So, you know, this is a great time to talk about. There was an incident that happened, right, that I think everyone who's watched the show is aware of.

You both pulled into it. I think, Meg, you in particular were pulled into it. Yeah. But what I'd like to focus on with regard to that incident is how it impacted your relationship. Because there are certain things at play that I found very interesting. For example, I think that there's this whole notion of brocode. Yeah, there's a bit of that going on.

Right. For sure. And it's like, oh, man, did Kieran break brocode? Yeah. Then there's also a conversation around, well, do you always stand up for your partner in a moment of contention? Yeah. And then there's girl code. Do I always tell my girls or is it my responsibility?

Yeah. Right. There were so many things that were happening. I thought it was fascinating. I thought you both handled it exceptionally well. Thank you. But how would you describe what happened and how that impacted your relationship?

It's really interesting question. Yeah, it's hard to explain it. It started off with, you know, we both witnessed some behavior from one guy on the show that you wouldn't want to see from a fiancé, right? That's how I'll characterize it.

Yeah. It was the behavior wasn't of one that was about to get married to someone. And then you'll put in this difficult position of, I really like this guy. Like we got on well. Like we had a decent relationship. But Meg also really gets on with his fiancé.

So it's like, well, we're sitting on some information now. And are we better people for sharing the information or better people for sitting on the information and letting them figure that out themselves? Right. Can I say that is an issue that almost every couple of people. faces at some part. Yeah. Like, do you sit on it or do you tell? Yeah. Like, what do you do? So I'm curious, did you both have a conversation?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We had a day, didn't we, in between because we were both filming in different locations, so we couldn't have the conversation with them. Yeah. And straight after. So, yeah, we had a conversation. We were like, what's the right thing to do? Like, we're also on a TV show. So how? How? do we get this information to them without, we didn't want to be in the middle of it. Like, of course, we know, I was just going to cause drama. Yes. And that was the one thing we were like, we don't want to be a part of any drama because

we're not interested in causing that. But it was like, the one question I asked Meg, which I think was the simple question to ask was, if we weren't on a TV show right now, what would you do? And she said, well, I tell her. Yeah. And I said, well, then do that. Yeah. She ended up leaving the experiment and then the next day.

Which was also a shock by the way to us. Yeah, we didn't know that was going to happen. We didn't expect her to leave the experiment. Kind of expected them to have a conversation about it and try and communicate us to, you know, what happened. Yeah, I wanted to give her the information. I was like, you do whatever you want with that information, but I just need you to know that because if it was the other way around,

I would have absolutely wanted you to tell me. But then, yeah, yeah, the... So I'm fully answering your question. The brocode thing was interesting because I was like, I don't want to wrap my guy out right, right? But at the same time, like, I know what's right and wrong. And I know some of the stuff that was said and some of the behavior was not right. And so I backed Megan going and telling his fiance.

And then when he then essentially wanted to call us out for doing that, then it was like, oh, okay, now I'm involved. Yes. because I batts my fiancé in her telling her, and I think she's done the right thing. So if another guy is going to call her out for that, I need to be there to support her and make sure that he knows that what he did was wrong

and this is not mine and Meg's issue. This is your issue. You guys need to go and talk about that. Right. I really appreciate that from Kieran. He was a great little cheerleader on the way there. It gets quite a heated. I had no idea.

I wasn't prepared to have a conversation like that. I don't know what I was. I think I was just on a different planet. I think I look at everything airy-fairing. It was, I mean, watching it, I can't imagine what it was like in the room. Yeah. Oh, it was watching. So now we're talking about the second conversation where you both come to talk to the gentleman.

Yes. Yeah. And in that, I thought, wow, because you're aware that she's left, correct, at that point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know he's heated. Yeah, yeah. I actually sat Meg down before we went into the room off camera. And because I know Megan very well. And, you know, Megan won't back down if she thinks she's in the right, which is an amazing

quality. But it also means if I knew how he was going to respond because all he, you know, all you can do in that situation is get defensive, try and focus on semantics, certain things that, like, you could try and like make someone look like they're like. lying because they've got certain elements of the story wrong, right? That's how he was going to approach the conversation. And I knew that before he went in. So I said to Meg, just don't get your backup because ultimately all you need to say is,

look, I saw what I saw. So I said what I said, your problem. You go and deal with it. Like, this is not my issue. It got really heated in the room as I knew it would. And Meg hit the roof as I knew she would because she doesn't take bullshit, which I love about her. But I was then trying to sort of be the calm in the room and be like,

we don't need to like get angry or emotional. We've done the right thing. Like let's just be confident in that. But yeah, it got quite emotional and heated. Yeah, I didn't expect it, I think, as well. You did warn me, but I was like, no, it's going to be fine. But we ended up going round in circles. It was actually way longer than it looks on the TV.

And I just got very frustrated after a while. And I was like, you know what, I agree to disagree. Like, here's what it is. And let's just leave that there. But what I saw is it then, it looked like you left the room. I did leave the room. And you started crying. Yeah, I did cry.

Yeah. I actually left the room at that point, which you don't see. So I ran after Meg. Interesting. And consoled her. And then I came back to the room to finish the conversation one on one. And then we wrapped up and we went off. Yeah, that's quite emotional, wasn't it?

So how it was left, though, it appeared, is if you still had a relationship with the gentleman. Like, you were cordial. Yeah. He was cordial with you. Yeah. Right. But that your relationship with him was over. Yeah.

I think that's probably a fair synopsis. Yeah. So then how is that maintained as a couple? Because it's interesting. My wife and I have had situations where it's been similar, right? Yeah. Where she's blown up on someone, right? I'm like, but that's still my man.

Yeah. It's tough. What's you do? I think that's how you have to do with it. You have to be like, look, I appreciate that's a bad situation, deserves to be called out, he's wrong. I back you to the hills on that. Like, we're together on that. Doesn't mean I'm not going to go for a beer with him because he's not all bad, you know?

All right. I mean, I don't think you guys have had an argument yet. I don't want you to have an argument right now. We communicate properly. No, we do, we do. We do. We talk about this stuff. And I'm aware that we're different human beings.

Like, and you're going to get, like, you spent all that time with Jav and you are Pally with him and I didn't have that relationship with him. So it's like, that's fine. That's like, that's fine. I'm happy to not have a relationship with him. But one last topic that I want to mention within this is how masculinity is perceived. I love that you brought us up on television. Yeah.

Because I had no idea how influential TV was when I first started doing television. Yeah. I was like, okay, this is entertainment. But what I've realized is that many people do take their cues based on what they see. Yeah. And they think about the world in terms of its possibilities as well as limitations based on what they see. And we're living in a day and age right now where there's a lot of complaints around men's behavior, specifically on reality. shows. Yeah. Right. So Kieran in particular, did you feel a responsibility to show up in a particular

way on this program? No, I don't think I felt a responsibility to show up in a particular way. I think I just wanted to be myself, but I think only after the shows, during the last sort of few weeks since it's been airing, you've seen some other reality shows come out where men haven't behaved brilliantly. That's very politically correct. Men haven't behaved in the right ways. And you see some examples of it on our show as well. And we, you know, coming out of it, we're getting a lot of questions and there's this real feeling about, you know, girl power and girls sticking together, which is amazing. And I fully back that and there's some beautiful examples of that on our show. Yeah, Meg's involved in some of them, which is, which is amazing. But what I don't want it to turn to,

is men are shit, you know, men are terrible, like, how am I supposed to find a man in this world? They're all rubbish examples of human beings and, and I felt those two things, unfortunately, are linked and they shouldn't be. And I do think there are a lot of poor examples out there of men on reality TV at the moment, and in the wider world, which ultimately is having a negative impact on young men because all they're growing up with is the men are shit line, which is what is being portrayed. And then they will turn to examples of masculinity that are like, men are great, be a man. You know, you can, we think you're strong, be strong and just the wrong types of masculinity, in my opinion, and toxic masculinity. And that's what they grow up believing they,

you know, oh, well, these people like me. These people care about me. So I'm going to be more like that. Yes. And that's really dangerous. So I didn't feel a responsibility because I ultimately just wanted to be myself. But what I hope is that I was an example of a good version of masculinity. That's what I hope. And I want to continue to be that.

And I'm still learning. Like Meg's taught me a lot in the last year, being with her about, you know, what she expects of a man. And, you know, what, yeah, I think I'm still learning. I don't think I'm the perfect example of it, but I like to think that I'm not a bad example of it. Yeah. Fair of. You know, what's your take on it?

Because oftentimes when, especially in this podcast, I have conversations with men about masculinity. Yeah. I love to have it with a woman. If I could. Yeah. I find it really difficult to articulate myself in this area. But, yeah, I think we all should expect more.

Yeah. And to answer a question, well, said, thank you. Sorry. Well said. I think you're doing an amazing job. Yeah. Thank you. I think, you know, I didn't listen to your podcast until I was with Megan.

There you go. And now I've listened to, you know, the John Stevens episodes, the Youngblood episodes. I love those guys. And I think they're brilliant examples of masculinity. And I think you articulate it much better than I will ever articulate it. But, yeah, I now feel a bit more of a responsibility, I would say, to, yeah, to edit. educate young men on like how to handle themselves and not to fall into the trap of watching people like Andrew Tate and all these absolute, yeah, expletives insert here, people that that are just versions of toxic masculinity. Yeah.

Yeah. Well said both of you. I was lost it then, sorry. No, no, no, no. Because it's interesting, you've both been thrusted into this role, a role that you probably didn't ever think that you would have. but now you do. Yeah. And it's interesting, you know, with the platform comes responsibility. Yeah. And I like that you're stepping up to that responsibility.

But it's only since you get the messages below, you know, I'm trying to experiment a bit more with my fashion, right? Since being Meg, not just since the show. And, you know, the comments that you get are just like, are we in like the 1800s? Yeah, it's very quick. What are the comments that you get? Oh, Kieran's a homo. You know, he looks like a lesbian. And it's just like, do you know what?

You're not actually who I care about. You're not my target audience. If you can't appreciate what I'm trying to do here, then sorry to you. I feel sorry for you. I think what you're doing is amazing, Bab. I love it. I love it.

It's so nice to see like a man who's like brave enough to go out. I'm like, no, actually, I'm going to wear something totally different to everyone else. Like no matter what anyone says, I feel good. Therefore, I'm just going to rock with it. And like, people who matter will give you the approach stand with approval, won't they? Yeah. You're like, yeah, great. Like, if people don't like it, they don't like it.

You're not going to please everyone. And I think at the end of the day, you just got to roll with it. Yeah, you got to roll with it. So I'd say, I am so there. I am so there to the point where I do the same thing. I have actually refused to wear a blazer for the next year. Oh, cool. Oh, cool.

Oh, dumb. Yeah. Proud to you. And actually, for the last year, I haven't worn a blazer. And it's very hard to do. as an expert on television to not wear a blazer. It's hard, actually. But it's the same thing.

I think, you know, I always say, I want to express myself and how I feel. And when I walk out of the house, I want to feel good. And I don't need anyone else to tell me you look a certain way. Like you, Paul, that's terrible. That's ridiculous. Why are you wearing this? You know, I get comments all the time.

You know, there was one show where someone said, I like to burn Paul's wardrobe for the entire series. It's like I just want to burn his wardrobe. And when I read that, I was like, yes. Yeah, do you know. Yeah. I'm kind of loving the hate comments because I'm like, okay, we're changing things. People are talking about it.

It's like going back to the masculinity thing. It's hopefully shaping people's views on what masculinity is, which is ultimately whatever you bloody want it to be. Yes. So, yeah, it's cool. I'm up for it. Yeah. Throw the hate.

Yes, yes. But obviously, you're taking your cue from your style icon. Exactly. She was always on it. Who really? Yeah. I give Meg a 10-10

on her looks on love is blind. 10-10 across the board. So, but you said that you get some comments that are a little bit off. Yeah.

Especially, well, the first images that came out of us they were edited. They did my girl dirty on that first. I was quite jerky. But yeah, my outfit choice.

See, I thought I was going bold. I was like, right, I'm going bright pink, blaze the two, piece, diamond-teed hearts all over it, like, it's giving love. Love is blind. People ripping into each, what the hell is she wearing? This is outrageous. Who do you think you are? I was like, I thought I slayed. Yes. But like, yeah, throughout it as well, like I got told it looked like a runner being on fire

at the reunion. I did love that too fair. I thought that was so funny. I was like, fair play. I was like, actually, that was quite good. But yeah, people are always going to hate. I think we're learning that quite quickly. Yeah, yeah. No matter what you put out there, like, not everyone's going to love it. So now, can we go back to Cyprus? Yes.

Oh, yeah. All right. So just between Cyprus, which was your honeymoon. Well, no, no, I'm sorry, that's not your honeymoon. That's your pre-moon. Pre-moon. Yeah. Pre-moon.

Yeah. It's your pre-moon all the way through to you then see each other's family, friends, etc. And then ultimately it leads to the wedding. And Meg, did you say that's a three-week period? Roughly, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

So in that time, was there anything that really shocked you, like really surprised you, not necessarily about your partner, but maybe about the process, maybe about love, maybe the preparation of getting married. Was there anything that truly stood out to you during that three-week period? I think there was only kind of a one sort of like two-day period, I want to say, where we felt a bit overwhelmed throughout the whole process. what was encouraging was that we both felt overwhelmed at the same time and we would like go on walks together off camera

to like discuss how we're feeling and again just communication really strong and I think it was at the time it was quite early on after Cyprus we just moved in together in Manchester we're just sort of getting used to living together although that was pretty easy to be fair and you just get thrown like guys because of how long you need to give notice to have a legal wedding. You need to sign some stuff now. You need to start picking things for the wedding,

like flowers and all of this stuff. Before we even know whether we're actually going to get married. And we were like, well, what are we actually signing up to here? And I think we had a, it wasn't a wobble necessarily because we were so good at communicating through it, but it was like a, I'm a bit overwhelmed. I think I was like staring into the abyss and you were like, you're okay, Meg?

And I was like, we're just, we're picking out a wedding cake. like my brain can't process that. Like that's crazy. Yeah. Did you at any point, especially during that period, think about walking away? I think we had a conversation, didn't we? I think we were like, right, we've got two weeks from now

to learn as much about each other, do what we need to do. And if we don't feel like we're ready to get married, we'll leave the experiment together. We had an off-screen agreement. Yeah, we would never go to the eye, and be like, oh, is someone going to say no? We were never going to do that to each other.

Again, that comes back to like what the producers would want you to do and what actually you have to do. You have no obligation to go to that aisle. We built such a connection clearly. I never would have put Megan a wedding dress if I wasn't going to see yes to her, firstly, because I just think, what a traumatic experience to put someone through, that you just don't need to put them through that. I never would have asked her to bring her family there if I wasn't going to see us to her.

And I think she felt the same, you know, back. And we basically had an agreement. We said if we're not doing it, we're not doing it. So by the time we were there, I was 99.9% sure that we were doing it. Obviously, there's always the slight risk of these things. But, yeah, I was, I was. I was. I felt good.

So then going into the wedding, then where is the wedding? In Aberdeen. We actually did it up in Scotland. Yeah. Yeah, so those family members are actually flying. They're flying up. They're flying up. Yeah.

It's not even around the corner. It's like they're taking the day off work. Yeah. They're all, some of them are paying themselves to go up there. My mates bless them because it was such like last minute. They took the day of work on the Wednesday and they were getting the flights back the Thursday early morning, the 6 a.m. flight flight to then go to work in the office at 9 a.m.

Yeah. I was like, fair play, guys. Yeah, loads of friends and families. Sacrifice. Yeah. Are you limited in how many people you can invite? Yeah. You were 20 each side.

So it's like 40 person wedding, which actually we are, we are going to, by the way, we're going to renew vows and we're going to. do a bigger one, which is going to be really fun in April. A love party. Yeah, we're calling it a love party. Yeah, so we're calling it, which is going to be fun. But we, but if I was to do it again, that is the amount of people I would have. It was so nice to have it quite intimate.

We weren't going around talking to people who hadn't spoken to in years. It was all of our closest people. Obviously, some people we couldn't make it and we'd love them to be there. But generally it was, it was all of our closest people. And yeah, I'd have done it like that again. Yeah, Netflix absolutely smashed it. We were like, this is unreal. It was beautiful.

Yeah. It was beautiful. We were so happy. And especially once you get past that altar part, is there a, the preamble, I would imagine, there's that 1% the 0.0001% of tension comes because there's the walk. Yeah. You know, you see friends and family are there, you know, so that heightens. I was an emotional wreck.

I don't know if you saw that, but I couldn't get my words out. I literally couldn't speak. I was, yeah. Yeah, I was blubbing, wasn't I? You're a cute. Yeah. I mean, you got emotional with your father. Yes.

Yeah, that was the first time in the day that I got emotional. And it's weird because, you know, it's TV, it's reality TV. So, like, I can see my dad standing there waiting to get his cue to come speak to me. So it's not completely natural. But then as soon as we were in that conversation, it just like, I didn't even think about the cameras and it just felt like really real. And it was real because I was getting married. And my dad was speaking to his son who was getting married that day. So that's the beauty of reality.

It's bloody mad, isn't it? The emotions and the stories that it pulls from you. Yeah. You know, Meg, a story that you told that was just, it broke my heart. And then I thought about it, of course, when you mentioned it earlier in the pods, but then later at your wedding is when you were your father, you were working somewhere. Oh, yeah, when I was working in the pub. In the pub, your father.

So you were working in the pub. How old were you at that point? I must have been 18. You were 18. Yeah. And this is your biological father. Yes. Comes into the pub and you had not yet met him.

What's the story? I don't want to. I hadn't seen him since I was about six years old. So, yeah, my mom and him broke up when I was a baby. I would only see him like on Wednesdays. And then from the age of six, I didn't see him anymore. I just knew it was him. Very strange experience, like very surreal.

And I was serving them. I was like, hello, what would you like? Pouring them a beer. He didn't say anything. His partner was just speaking to me. It was just very odd. Like, I think he was looking around. Didn't know what to do with himself.

And, yeah, it turned to my best friend that was working with. I think I've just served my dad. And she was like, she knew the whole situation. She was like, you go home, do your thing. came back the next week and it left me a card and it just didn't really have much in it it was just like hey Meg lots of people wish they knew you

have a good Christmas and birthday because it was around Christmas time yeah and I was like okay like what do I what do I do with that like it's just it's such a surreal moment like even now I was wrong about it I'm like yeah that did happen but again I feel like I just blocked it out

yeah so you hadn't So then, from what I understand, you didn't speak, you haven't spoken to your father. No. Since that moment. No. His partner did actually message me on Facebook after that, which was a very interesting situation. She messaged me saying, you really look like your dad. That was it.

And I was like, such an, like, odd thing. Odd thing to send someone that you don't know. And I don't know if he speaks about me. I don't know. So, yeah, just a very surreal situation. but never spoken to him. He lives in Brighton where I've always lived around the corner. Like we could have had a relationship quite easily, I feel, but it's just never happened.

So, yeah, I think that probably has had a big impact in my life without me really realizing. I think you realize. Yeah. I think you realize. But I'd tell you why I thought about that story at your wedding because I thought, wow, there's a good chance your father is watching this. Yeah. Did you think that that he could be? Yeah, I don't really think about it too much.

But I do remember them asking, like, would you like him to come? And I was like, no, I'm not speaking to him. I wouldn't want him to come. But, yeah, I have thought about if he's watched it and like what he's thinking. But again, I don't know him. He's a stranger to me. I don't know anything about him. I don't know what he does.

I don't know. He might have kids. I might have siblings that I don't have a clue about. So, yeah, to me, I've, I didn't, I don't really need to have a relationship with him anymore. I've gone through my life. I've gone through my childhood. I've had a father figure who has been amazing and my mom's always been amazing. And yeah, so I just kind of, again, I've blocked him out a bit.

Yeah, fair enough, fair enough. It was one of those where that's what came over my mind watching the wedding. And I think I think about these things now because I am a father and I don't and and there's there's a part of my calculation of being a father that I don't understand how you can be aware that you have a child that you don't see and talk to and look after and care for and the impact that it makes then on that child. Yeah. And how they then show up in the world and then how they live. love. And I think you've done an extraordinary job of showing up in this world in a full way. You know what I mean? Without having that particular aspect of love from your biological father, but you've had love, obviously, from so many other incredible people in your life. And I think that's why this union is so

special to me, because now you not only have a partner who you are in love with, but I can imagine that you two are going to have a massive family. Like massive. Like, truly, you might, like, am I just saying this? Or are you going to have a massive family? I think, yeah, we feel very passionately about... You can have a massive family. We can have a good-sized family.

I don't know. I have to pop them out, Matt. You can pop some out as well, that'd be good. So then you get married. You're officially married, right? But that's a year before the show comes out. Yeah. So then you have to keep this.

relationship secret. Yeah. For a year. Yes. Oh, yeah. How do you do that? It's so mad, isn't it? Like, I mean, I introduced Meg as my girlfriend to everyone, right?

So she was my girlfriend. And we had a whole backstory as to how we met, which was that I was sat having a coffee in a coffee shop in Kings Cross. And Meg walked in to order her a coffee. And I was like, wow, she's hot. I'm going to get a number. And I walked up to her approach during the conference. coffee shop and got a number and that's how we met.

That's what we told people. We thought we'd make it a bit spicy and said everyone was like, just say like hinge or and I was like no, we may as well make this fun, you know, like, keep, you know, keep the excitement alive because everyone we told were like, that never happens. Oh my gosh, you're so lucky. Oh my gosh, I hope that happens to me and we're like, at least we're like keeping, you know, the spark alive, like giving people hope. And we were like, that's nice.

I think people now watching it like, oh, never have. You laugh. You lied to us. You met in a part. Yeah. I think how we met was even cooler, to be fair. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, it's been really hard keeping a secret for a whole year.

Yeah, there's been a few viral TikToks that have managed to figure out. In that, like, when the show first came out a few weeks ago, like they'd gone through our Instagrams and managed to find, like, we're wearing the same wristband, which actually was a hotel wristband in Ibiza that you needed to get back into the hotel. Oh, my gosh. I've seen it. And even though I tagged that photo as me being in Greece, yeah. To throw people off the scent.

Like, they'd figure it out. And also my stepmom has a painting that manages to creep into the back of a couple of photos that we've got on it on our own Instagrams. And she was very excited that her painting was in Kelsma Bolotin. Or even people were zooming in on, like, Kieran had sunglasses on and I'd take in the picture. People had zoomed in. To see the reflection. You see the reflection. Like, it's really faint of me in my, like, Brazil top.

Mad. Yeah. And they were like, Megan took that picture. I was like, oh my gosh. been done in. We thought we were so good. We thought we'd smashed it. Not as good as you thought. We can't fool them. But I think the beauty though is you had a year as a couple together before all of the fanfare. I think we may be accelerated in that year to try and experience as much as we possibly could because we knew we were going to be in the public eye in a year's time. So we were like,

let's go on as many holidays as we can. Let's go to as many gigs as we can. Festivals, just like, let's experience as much as we can together because even now when we're out together we are getting recognised we're getting pictures taken like it's a new that's a whole new thing for us and we knew that was potentially happy

we didn't know how big that was going to be or how much it was going to blah we knew that was potentially coming so we had this year of not being in the public eye which we were so grateful of and just helped solidify our relationship really yeah yeah it's been a yes year like we're just yeah

we've not stopped have we no yes to everything Yeah, we'll go here, yeah, we go there. That's just experience as much as we can. It's so important to say yes. Yeah. Now, I have a gift for both of you. And knowing that you two are geniuses, you both are geniuses.

What is this? This is my gift. Oh. This is a gift that I have not given to any other guest here on We Need to Talk. Oh. This is a letter that. I wrote to both of you. Oh, my God.

And if you would allow me, I'd like to read it to you. I'm going to cry. I'm going to cry. Oh, that's amazing. Okay. You're ready for this? Yeah, we're ready. I need to sit up. Get ready. Get ready. Okay. Okay. And I'm thankful that Meg allowed me to call her Meg

because I start the letter, Meg. Daron. Beg and Karen, I'm going to give this to you right after I read this. Oh, thank you so much. First off, congratulations are in order. saying yes to a marriage is always a bold move, but saying yes, sight unseen, well, that takes courage and faith on another level. Now, you've joined a very rare group of people, you talked about this earlier, who have literally chosen love before seeing the face in front of you. Now that's

powerful. As you step into this next chapter, I thought I'd pass along a few lessons from over 20 years of marriage with my wife, Jill, consider these less like commandments and more like tools. All right. Use them, remix them, laugh at them. You need to, but don't forget them. Okay, don't forget these. Now, here are the seven tips for both of you. Number one.

And this is in no particular order, okay? Keep the fights clean. Keep the fights clean. Conflict is healthy. stonewalling isn't argue as teammates against the problem not opponents against each other and learn the magic word sorry use that often number two passion is a practice it's not solely about sex it's in the small daily acts compliments quality time gratitude that build intimacy and here's a hot take that many people will disagree with me on, but I know this to be a fact. And that is, scheduling sex

is not always unromantic. Okay? It can be strategic when you are busy and you have all those adopted kids, okay? Trust me. Trust me. All right. Number three, trust is built in the small things. Call when you say you will call. Show up when you say you will show up. Deliver on your consistency equals safety. Now I would argue that's how you fell in love with each other, is through your consistency to each other. Number four, stay curious about each other. Stagnation is the silent killer of marriages. Relationships don't stay the same. They grow or they wither. Keep asking almost every day, how are we doing as a couple? We had Nadia Hussein on, phenomenal conversation. And she talked to me.

about how her husband, her and her husband, rate each other every night. Wow. Zero to 10 scale. That's amazing. I love that. But they're checking in. It's very important to check in. How are we doing as a couple?

That's cool. Number five. Don't outsource your relationship. Your friends are not your marriage therapist. Seek proper counsel, not casual advice. There's a big difference. Number six, boundaries matter. know them, hold on to them, even with the most loving partner, ignoring your boundaries invites resentment.

And number seven, last but not least, keep the sex dirty. Enough said on that. That's my favorite. Of course it is. Of course it is. Dirty dogs. I saw those hips moving. I saw it.

I get some of it. Sorry. He's going crazy now. Carried away. I'm sorry. He's going crazy. He's going crazy. All right.

The key to a successful marriage isn't avoiding challenges far from it. You want to face those challenges together hand in hand, sometimes with tears, sometimes with laughter, but always with intention. Jill and I are still figuring it out after decades. and honestly, that's the part of what keeps things exciting. I wish you both nothing but joy, growth, and plenty of clean fights and a bit of dirty fun along the way with love and respect, Paul. Oh, my God. Thank you so much.

That's beautiful. To both of you. That's so nice. We're going to have to frame that. That is to both the... That is getting framed. Thank you so much. Oh, I go, thank you so much.

Oh, I, I think you both are exceptional. I've truly enjoyed watching your love story. I like how you've stood on, you've spoken truth to power through your, you know, through at least what I saw. Can't imagine what was not aired. I think there were some very hard moments where you, where many people would have backed down in those moments, but you stood up. But most importantly, you stood up together. And I think that you two are one of the most outstanding love stories I've ever seen depicted on television. Oh, wow.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I wish you so much good fortune in the future. So then, last question. Everyone gets this. And I want to remix your question a little bit. Okay. So the question typically is, if you think back throughout your entire life, what's the most memorable conversation you've had?

Who was it with? What did you learn? But I want you just to think about love is blind. Okay. The experiment. During that time, what was the most memorable conversation that you had? Who was it with? What did you learn?

It doesn't have to be with each other. It could be with a producer. It could be with someone else that you dated in the pod. It could be with now, you know, if you're on a press run, talking to a journalist. Yeah. But it could be with each other. What was the most memorable conversation that you did? you had in the experiment throughout that experiment who was it with what did you learn i mean there's

probably for me two that jumped in mind one i won't talk about because half of it is depicted on television which was when we start talking about our families um in the pods that's probably the most memorable conversation i had with meg throughout the whole and it goes a lot deeper and a lot longer than you see on tv but a lot of it is to pitch on tv so i won't delve into that one The other one is when we were in Manchester living together and we just started to be slightly overwhelmed by the experiment for the first time. One of my best friends, Harry, rang me and I took the conversation away from Meg, so I went out onto the balcony. So it was just me talking to Harry. And he really quizzed me on why I was continuing with the experiment.

So he was like, you found someone you like, that's great. Why on earth are you continuing this experiment and thinking about getting married? That's ridiculous. And he really quizzed me and he'd written notes, bless him, and he went through his page of notes of like all the things that he would like to ask me before he feels he can back this. And he'd really considered in the way he approached it

and he went through all of these things. And I was so grateful because by the end of it, I felt sure that I was doing the right thing by staying in the experiment, whereas I had felt a bit overwhelmed at that point and a bit wobbly. After basically talking him through all of the reasons, I was like, almost then like, started to believe it myself and was like, thank you for asking those questions, because now I think I'm right where I need to be. Just look at that.

Look at that. Love it. Harry, Harry, for the win. Harry. Go on Harry. Is Harry your genius friend? He's not, but he's very, he's very, very tough. He's very clever.

All your friends are very clever, to be fair. Yeah, there's some clever boys. We did a pub quiz. I was like, I'm like, Jesus. I'm never going back. No, I was like, any questions about the Kardashians. I'm like, I've got this. Sorry.

I've got my forte. I feel like mine was quite similar. It was with my best friend as well, India. She was very apprehensive about me going on the show. She was, she knows what I'm like. She knew that I'm a loose canon. I was going to do whatever I wanted to do. But she was like, is that the right thing to do?

Like, do you really think this is right? Like, you could get married. Like, she just wasn't sold on the idea. And then when we got to Manchester and I'd finally got my phone back and I got to speak to her and we dove deep about everything that had happened. I explained the whole situation with Kieran. And she did the same. She absolutely grilled me.

She went in and was asking me every single question under the sun. and we got to the end and she was like Meg, I'm so proud of you. She was like, you know what? I can hear it in your voice. I can hear it. I can see how you are. You're literally beaming. You're glowing.

And that's all I need to see. She was like, that's it. And she's like, I can tell this is right. You ride the wave. You do what you need to do. She's like, I'm going to support you regardless. So I think, yeah, it's probably exact same timing for us. I think we were like, our besties have got our besties.

back and how incredible. It was just so beautiful that they all came together at the wedding and they were all so supportive of the whole thing by the time we actually decided we were going to do it. Yeah, we were so lucky that everyone was on board. I think that's why they didn't show our families and our friends meets either because there was no drama. Everyone was so supportive and I think they understood me and Kieran to such a level that they were like, we see it and we get it.

As crazy as this is, we didn't think we would, but now we've seen it, this makes sense. So that was really lovely. Yeah, yeah. No, I love it. Like, there's so much about not only the relationship that I love, but also how you were able to navigate television, I think that's an entire conversation that's very important because more and more people are getting representation,

not just on television, but in digital world, right? Yeah. It's very accessible now. Yeah. But unfortunately, many people allow themselves to fall victim to the machine. if you will. But I think you two did an exceptional job at understanding the mission, right,

in accomplishing that mission. And I just wish you so much, you know, love and joy in the future. If there's ever anything I can do to support either of you, please let me know. But continue, continue to most importantly stand together. Thank you so much. Thank you. You, we will. You're a legend.

Thank you. Yeah, you are literally unbelievable. Thank you. I love them. You know, I was hoping that I would love them. Because, you know, I watched them obviously on Love is Blind and really loved what I saw, but I know it's reality television. You don't always get what you see.

So I was hoping that I would get what I saw. And I got more than that. They were wonderful. What I loved about how they did it and how they maintained such a strong relationship is through their consistent, frequent communication. The more closed off we are, the less opportunity we have to actually meet and connect with someone. And so what Meg and Kieran represent are two people

who are completely open in their methods and willingness to meet someone. That's the place that we could all benefit from. People often talk about the divorce rate is between 30, and 50% depending on the country. But the breakup rate is much higher for couples who are just casually dating. It's much higher. So you think, well, why do people break up? Well, the number one reason that people break up is miscommunication.

Well, when you add the element of, you know, the public and the popularity of a show and the pressure that's placed on you, communication becomes even more important. So you could see where it's very easy for a couple to break up. And I tell you what, I mean, I may have to eat these words one day, but I don't think I will, is that truly they're one of the strongest couples I've ever seen come from a reality television show. And I've been doing this for a decade. Spring just slid into your DMs.

Grab that boho look for that rooftop dinner, those sandals that can keep up with you, and hang some string lights to give your patio a glow up. Spring's calling. Ross, work your magic. Hey, Mama, thanks for making all my favorite recipes. Hi, Ma. Thanks for your unfiltered advice. Hi, Mom. Thanks for always being by the phone.

Hey, Mom. Happy Mother's Day. When you ship UPS Air at the UPS Store, your items arrive on time or your money back, guaranteed at no extra cost. exclusively at the UPS Store UPS Store U.S. retail locations. Visit the UPS Store.com slash air shipping for full details. Terms and conditions apply. Send your Mother's Day gifts at the UPS store. and we'll get your gratitude there on time.