We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Love Island’s Simba & Angelista: He Had Options, I Had None

Episode Date: August 25, 2026

Love Island 2026 finalists Simba and Angelista reveal what really happened in the Love Island villa, from their relationship and the “villain edit” to the moments viewers never saw. The Love Island couple open up about falling in love on the show, exploring other connections, public pressure and Angelista’s experience as a Black woman in the villa. Simba also opens up about growing up with his mother’s motor neurone disease, becoming one of her carers and how that responsibility shaped his ambition, emotions and the man he became. Together, Simba and Angelista revisit the private conversations that brought them closer, the moments that tested their relationship and what it was like falling in love under constant scrutiny. Angelista also speaks candidly about desirability, representation and the pressure she felt knowing Black women were watching her experience unfold. Raw, vulnerable and deeply personal, this is Simba and Angelista revealing the relationship and pressures that existed beyond the Love Island edit. Simba and Angelista, We Need To Talk Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk   https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod   Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Follow Simba and Angelista here: https://www.instagram.com/simbakudyiwa/ https://www.instagram.com/angelistagundax/ https://www.tiktok.com/@angelistagundax (00:00) Intro (02:07) Why Simba Wanted To Talk (08:21) Did Simba Fall in Love on Love Island? (12:07) Simba's North London Upbringing & Zimbabwean Heritage (14:03) Simba's Mother's Health Condition (23:09) Simba's Parents' Divorce (29:33) How Simba Cares for His Mother (33:39) How Simba Applied for Love Island (36:41) Simba's First Impressions of Angie (40:20) Anthropic Ad (42:09) Angie's First Impressions of Simba (44:01) How Simba & Angie Established a Connection (47:22) The First Test of Their Relationship (52:17) Being a Black Couple on Love Island (54:55) When Simba & Angie Fully Trusted Each Other (58:33) Their Thoughts on Finishing Third (01:01:17) Did Angie Find Love on Love Island? (01:05:17) Angie's Experience as a Black Woman on Love Island (01:12:28) Why Angie Felt She Had Limited Options in the Villa (01:16:20) Diversity in Reality TV (01:19:57) The Positives of Angie's Love Island Experience (01:25:55) Paul's Takeaways Sponsored by: Anthropic - https://www.claude.ai/talk  Sync ID: MB01HWZIBVN2A3S  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I think you can't be in love and not be boyfriend and girlfriend. But we're seated here on the couch. Candles. No. It's kind of romantic. It was like the second or third night. He was like crying in my arms. I was getting scared that she was very quickly

becoming the only person in here for me. When was the first true test of your relationship? You're okay? Yeah, I'm good. Sorry, sorry. It was a bit of a sticky one. Everyone keeps saying I need to still explore. At this point, it's only been just over a week. So I was like, maybe if I share a bed with her,

then that will make me realize, OK, cool, like, which again, looking back now, it just sounds like nonsense. True for you. Honestly, it does. I wanted to talk to you individually. It looked like I was the loyal girl that wouldn't look left or right. If I could, I would have.

I was forced to be in a situation just because I had no options. Well, there's a lot that we have to talk about. Let's talk, right? We need to talk for sure. talk for sure. Look, pause with me for just a second. Now, whether you've been with us every single week since day one,

or you just drop in when a guest catches your eye, I see you. I truly appreciate you. Every comment, every share, every time you show up, it matters. We're building a really special community here. If you want to support what we're doing without spending a penny,

please just take a second and click the subscribe button. It costs nothing, but it signals to the world that these conversations matter. Thank you for being on this journey with us. Now, let's get started. Let's start with a true check on how do you feel right now? I feel good right now.

It's a bit surreal, to be honest with you, just because this morning I did good morning in Britain. You know, I struggled to sleep at night. I was just, it was a mixture of excitement. and nerves kind of still feels like a little bit of a dream truthfully but um overall right now emotionally i'm i'm good i'm good i'm happy yeah you know i appreciate all of the transparency just in that yeah yeah yeah you know and i knew with you coming in that there are a lot of heavy topics there's a lot yeah that we're going to go through yeah um and it's interesting i even prepare

myself emotionally before a guest comes in and i think what's going to make this conversation so unique is it's not just you. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And so I want to even talk about how this came about. Yeah. Because do you know how this came about?

Uh, a little bit. Yes, I know. Yes, I know. But yeah, a little bit. Okay, okay. So we were in touch. Okay, yeah. Right.

And then we said, okay, Simbo, we want you to come on. Yeah. Come on. There's a lot that we have to talk about. Let's talk. We need to talk for sure. Right. And then I got a message from someone that I believe you know. I think I know her quite well.

And her name is Angie. Angie, yeah. And Angie wrote down some things that she wanted to talk about. And when I read it, I said, we need to talk. Like these are all the topics that I quite honestly have not had an opportunity. to talk to anybody on this podcast about it. And I think she's the perfect person.

She is the perfect person. And so Angie's here as well. Yeah, she is. Obviously, you two men on Love Island, which it's so interesting. Love Island is fascinating to me because internationally, it's become one of the most popular franchises

in the world and continues to be super successful here in the UK. Right? Yeah. So if we just talk about Love Island, or we just stay in that space real quick, is just, have you watched it back?

I haven't watched, I haven't watched it back, no. And what's the reason why? Because some people come back and immediately binge it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, indulge. Why have you not? I feel like for me, probably would be a little bit of a hard watch. What do you believe the public,

most misunderstands about you. It's a good question. I don't know if it's misunderstanding or just complete lack of understanding from their point. And I don't blame them because again, you know, they can only take what they see.

You know, at end of the day, I feel like every Love Islander says this, you know, you see an hour of 24 hours. Nothing can really ever prepare you for it, truthfully. And I feel like a lot of the people that only really understand that are people that have been on Love Island, you know, previously coming off the shelf spoken to ex-Ilanders and stuff. And they said, oh, you've done really well and, you know, you should be really proud of yourself. And I get why they can say that because, again, they've lived it. They know exactly what goes on in terms from an emotional standpoint, you know.

So what do you believe the public is lacking in their knowledge or awareness of you? you. I think in terms of me, who I am, you know, who is Simba, I feel like maybe that's the bit that the public don't really know. And, you know, since I've come out of the villa, I've done a few interviews, I've been a bit more open about, you know, Simba, who I am, you know, why I'm the way I am, you know, my personal life, my family life. I'm not really even annoyed about it, truthfully, because in a weird way, I feel like it's better this way for me to come out and, you know, speak my truth and be myself and, you know, being able to control my own narrative. So, I mean, I've been doing reality TV, probably since you were born.

Probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been doing it for a while. Oh, okay. In the UK and the U.S. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And one thing I've learned early on in reality TV, I became, I was frustrated. Okay, I was like, you know what, I do 20 things, but you only portray me as this one thing. Yeah.

And I thought it was something against me. But what I realized is that with television, at the end of the day, it's entertainment and it's a story. Exactly, exactly. And the story truly has to be as simplified as possible. As possible, yeah. And when you're dealing with a big cast, lots of contributors, everyone gets one story, for the most part. Maybe you get two, right? So it's hard to see all the dimensions of someone on a time.

television show, nor does an audience even want all of that. Exactly. You know? That's very true. So if you were then, let's say you got one dimension, then what do you think that one dimension was? How were you depicted? I feel like, you know, since I've come out, you know, a lot of my friends will say,

you know, you kind of had the villain edit. That's what they call it. That's what social media call it the villain edit. I feel like it's fair to say. I feel like, you know, I kind of agree with it a little bit. in the sense that the things that I did were just magnified, you know, in a way. And it was like there was so much more going on that maybe, you know, didn't really come to that. But at the same time, it wasn't always bad in there, you know.

I managed to, you know, find Angelista. We had like an instant connection, you know, fell in love, made the good way to the find. finish third, you know, so... Can I pause on that real quick? Yeah, yeah. So you truly fell in love in the villa? Yeah, yeah. Hand on heart.

Hand on heart, yeah. Like, she's my person. I've found my person. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. So you two are then what together? So right now, I'm not good with all the terminologies.

So, yeah, bear with me. But in terms of how I see her, I really see her as, you know, like, this is my girlfriend. I think for me, coming out of the villa, the only reason I didn't want to make, because I could have, there were some days I did want to make it official in the villa, truthfully, because I was like, you know what, I'm going to leave here. I know I'm not going to, in terms of having time for any other women on the outside, like, that's just not happening. You know, I know in my heart, I know myself very well to the point that, you know, I can kind of tell when, you know, I might come out of here and all the attention.

And she was even worried about that a little bit as well, bless her. But, you know, I was just, I remember having a day with myself in the villa and I was like, nah, you're going to leave here and, you know, you've got your person. There's nothing better. So you are officially not girlfriend, boyfriend, boyfriend. No, officially, yeah. But you see her as that and you're going to make it official at some point. Yeah. Okay.

That's fair. That's fair. And you're in love. Yeah, I'm in love, yeah. I mean, then that's a win. It is a win. It is a win. Yeah.

And that actually makes me better understand why everything else in terms of like, oh, I got the villain art or the villain edit or whatever it may be is secondary to you. Yeah, yeah. Because exactly, it's like, you know, I'm just literally, I can genuinely just push that all aside. You know, I thought leaving the villa because, again, I didn't know. I had little bits of intel like here and there from like bombshells they'd come in and they'd say

oh you know you're the bad guy basically you're the villain of this series and they would tell me that and I think leaving the villa I was a little bit anxious I was a little bit nervous

in terms of oh my gosh like you know what's gonna happen are people gonna hate me you know are people gonna um like just have negative things to say about me

but it's literally been the complete opposite you know since I've come out it's been amazing genuinely Yeah. So that's interesting when some of the bombshells came in. Yeah. Yeah. I guess they had been watching. They've been watching. So they told you. They told me. But at the end of the day, it's like I can't really focus. In that moment, I couldn't focus on what they were saying. I couldn't focus on, you know, the public perception. Because at the end of the day, you know, in, especially in an environment, I love Ireland, like, it's so intense. Like, even trying to entertain thoughts of what people might be thinking on the outside is too overwhelming. It's literally just, you know what? This is what. This is what. in front of me. I'm in this environment and I've just got to deal with it head on and that was my pure focus. Well, all right. Well, I tell you what, we're going to unpack all of Love Island.

Okay, cool. Like everything that I could pull out from you that happened that the public is not aware of, right? But before we do that, I want to focus on you if I could. Because I think this is part of the lack of understanding that you talked about is that we're all. multidimensional. We all have a history. We all have a journey, you know, that we've gone through. And many people don't know to the extent of what your journey has been. So I want to look at it. Because even in the research, I was like, wow, I had no idea. Simba was dealing with half of this. Yeah, yeah. So if we can. For sure, for sure. But you grew up in North London? North London. All right. But your parents are both from Zimbabwe?

Zimbabwe. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. So you were then, what, second generation? Yes. Yes. Okay.

Yeah. They were born there. Yeah. They were born there. They came here. Do you know the circumstances upon which they came here and why they came to the UK? So my mom, she came, I think my dad came before my mom, but they were both late 90s. They came to the UK.

And my dad tells me a lot about, you know, coming here, late 90s. He speaks soul. profoundly about Tony Blair, my dad loves Tony Blair. Okay. To the point that he actually, my middle name is Tony. Like, yeah. You're named after Tony Blair. Yeah, Tony Blair.

Yeah, yeah. My dad loves Tony Blair. You know, when he came to this country, he was, he got straight to work, really. He was doing loads of jobs working in McDonald's. And my mom, I know less about my mom, I would say in terms of, you know, when she actually came to this country. And I feel like, I kind of know why maybe I know less about her, probably know more about my dad from that standpoint.

But yeah, they both came here. They worked hard. They met each other, I believe, at university. And then, yeah, got married two years later. And, yeah, now I'm here. And now you're here. Now I'm here, yeah. So are you an only child?

No, so I've got a younger brother. I've got a younger brother who, he's four years younger than me. So he's, yeah, he's turned 21. So I actually missed his birthday when I was in the villa. Oh, wow. Yeah, I missed his 21st. But, yeah. I'm sure you got him a gift.

though. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I did. I did. This is good. Yeah, this is good. So now you just mentioned something that I have to go back to. You said, now I know why I know less about my mother's story. Yeah, yeah. Why? Why? So when I was about nine years old, my mom got diagnosed to my own disease, which is obviously a neurological illness. So in terms of the disease itself, from just more so like a generic standpoint, the disease itself, it's a very, it progresses quite rapidly. It's very progressive, you know, don't quote me, but I think the prognosis tends to be two years. So it basically leads to loss of voluntary muscle function. So all the voluntary movements, that means you can do day in day as you can't do because those nerves are damaged.

It meant that, you know, from, I'd say literally 10 years old, you know, day by day, just starting to deteriorate. And, you know, conversation, certain things just she can no longer, she can no longer do. Definitely from a conversational standpoint, you know, I'm very, I'm such an intrusive guy like, it's intrusive the right word. Probably curious. Curious, that's a better word. I'm very curious, you know, I'm always, I love picking my parents' brains, I love learning stuff,

you know and I feel like yeah I probably know a bit more about my dad just because we can have those conversations whereas my mom obviously she can't speak anymore um so she has an eye gaze that she communicates via and bless her she'll send me messages she's got WhatsApp on the eye gaze as well and you know she'll email me and stuff but i think definitely when i was younger i used to feel bad in terms of like just asking her questions because i knew how much effort she had to go to to actually type things so my dad would always be like my goal to if I had like questions and stuff and even till this day to be fair like he's always um he's always like passing the knowledge to me about like you know um Zimbabwe in history african history like you know his childhood growing up and stuff and family trees family roots and stuff yes he tends to be my

go to you when it comes to that kind of stuff well so uh i didn't realize so so so at 10 is when your mother was diagnosed yeah how old were you when you when you last had a conversation with your mother? I don't think I could even answer. Maybe nine, dare I say, maybe even eight? I'm not too sure in terms of just like an actual. Yes. It's so far, I don't even remember.

Yeah, I don't even remember. Yeah, now that's profound. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just put, I don't even remember. That's profound, especially for a little boy. Yeah, yeah. I think that the relationship between, a boy and his mother

is incredibly unique almost like the girl and her dad yeah yeah exactly yeah yeah yeah my dad always says he wanted a daughter as well yeah yeah yeah same same year no disrespect to my sons but yeah I'm always always wanted always wanted

so then at 8 9 you have your last conversation with your mother at 8 9 you probably can't reconcile yeah yeah why what's happened happening now. So when you go back to that age, how did that impact you?

I feel like, again, just even trying to recollect these things, it's difficult because it was such a long time ago. Because she, like, her decline, like, health-wise, was, it was very quick. You know, I think she had an appointment with the neurologist that did some tests. And by the time the diagnosis came, about maybe six months later, she was already in a wheelchair, you know um so it was it was a lot definitely from a young age and i remember at the time i was just trying to comprehend how i remember this actually i was in year five and i had an assembly um i went to a catholic school and uh we like reenacted um the stations of the cross

and i got given the part as jesus and i remember my mom saying um She wants to come to my assembly. And at this point she was in a wheelchair, I'm not to sure she had the diagnosis yet, but I definitely didn't know what motor neurone disease was or if she had it. But I remember she was in a wheelchair and there was a carer there as well.

And I remember just praying she would not come. Just purely because, you know, you're nine years old. I'm looking at everyone's parents and, you know, they're all jumping up and down and they're clapping and they're smiling and they're talking and they're giving them hugs. And it was hard, you know.

It was hard for me. And I remember battling my own fears, anxieties around everyone seeing my mom, but also trying to protect her as well. And it's like protecting her in the sense that I didn't want her to feel that I was like ashamed or embarrassed or, you know, because I didn't want that for her. Because at the end of the day she's my mom, you know, I love her regardless. But from a young age, a very young age, I could tell that, you know, it was going to be, it was going to be. to be hard for me to navigate my emotions and it was going to be hard for me to speak on it as well and and it has been for such a long time yeah yeah you know i i can feel that when you told that story yeah yeah yeah i i could see the the the the conflict yeah yeah yeah she's your mom you love her

but at the same time you at that age eight nine you just want to be like everybody else everyone else exactly yeah and anything that makes you look different it different, automatically you're like, yeah, I don't want this. Yeah, yeah. So then at that age, your life changes, right? Yeah. Your family's structure changes. So who becomes your mother's carer?

So at that time, I think it was more so an agency. So I think my dad got in contact of like a care agency. So we had carers coming in. but they were for like the odd like three, four, two hours per day. You know, they'd come in and then maybe go home and then someone else could come in later and then go home. You know, it was just very much like chopping change. But it was more so, from a care standpoint,

more so my dad that was kind of, yeah, very hands-on at that time. Okay. So if it's your father, right, your father, you said when he came over, he was just doing every job that he could. So with your mother, the doctor, I would imagine she's not working. Yeah, yeah. So it's your, so financially.

Finanately, yeah. How does the household make? Yeah, it was difficult because one thing I didn't mention, I haven't mentioned this in anything I've done and everyone keeps telling me I need to mention something to mention this. So my mom was actually a nurse. So after she finished studying, yeah, she qualified to become a nurse and she speaks to me a lot about in terms of, you know, she feels like her career got cut short because

she had so many dreams and aspirations. And I think at the point she got sick, she was nursing in a care home, which was managing a care home. And that's when she started to have a few fools at work. And, you know, she started noticing things at work. So she was, I think she took six months of work. And again, as a kid, you don't really notice from a financial perspective what's actually happening. But now when I look back, you know, there's certain things that definitely become more apparent to me, you know. I remember I think they had to end up selling her car

because my mum and dad had a car eat so they ended up having to sell her car. I think as well, like, you know, just like the meals we were eating, it became a little bit more stripped back. You know, my mum used to cook like chicken cassero. She used to love doing chicken casserole, you know, and you come in and you see all these ingredients

and all these bright colours. And I remember one time, I was looking back, oh my gosh, but I remember literally saying to my dad, like I'm tired of eating rice and see. stew, you know, like I'm literally tired of eating rice and stew. And like, God bless him, you know, the next day he started making lasagna for me, you know, me and my brother could he just want to eat. I think he felt bad.

I could tell he felt bad. But, you know, again, in the moment, when you're a kid, you don't realize these things. You don't realize the hardships your parents are facing, the adversity. But that's why I, in terms of, from a reflective standpoint, I feel like it's important for you to just sometimes I like to just sit back and just reflect a little bit on these things. Yes, yes. And I think that that's a very descriptive explanation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, I could see it. I can see it, yeah. I could see your mom in there cooking, lots of things. And then all of a sudden, your father was just like, well, look. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is what we got. This is it. Yeah.

And a microwave all pizza. Sorry, I forgot that as well. Every day after school. Okay, okay. All right. I can see it. You're being a picture. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Do you remember the conversation you had, with your father when he told you that you're that they're he you're splitting yeah i had i had it first with my mom okay my mom told me first how did that go um my dad was out of the country he was in zimbabwe at the time um because he like he goes back home you know just to go see family and have his time um so i think my mom used that as an opportunity she told me to come back home I remember her saying, like, you need to come back home, need to come back home.

This is the first, I still at uni. And then, you know, we had a conversation. And she basically said, yeah, like, me and your dad, you know, were separating. But my brother at the time, he was dropping, like, little hints here and there. You know, he was saying stuff that it isn't always, it isn't, it isn't, what did he used to say to me? He used to say stuff like, you know, mom and dad, you know, there's more to it or not everything as it looks.

you know when I'd ask him how is everyone at home and stuff but me and my brother literally like were so close but were just very different people in a way you know he processes things in his own way so when he was dropping these little hints and stuff it wasn't really hitting me I wasn't really processing it all but yeah that conversation my mom she basically just said to me that yeah like yeah it's done

like me and what did you say it didn't hit me it just didn't hit I just I think I said oh okay but I was like no you know deep down, I was like, no chance. Yes. You know? Yeah.

You just didn't even accept it. I didn't really accept it. No. I didn't really accept it. No. I didn't really thought, you know, this is maybe just kind of how she's feeling in the moment. And, you know, with time, maybe they'll fix things or maybe she might realize that, you know, that this or that everything will just come back together again. Yeah, I was very naive, very naive.

I definitely distanced myself for sure. I don't know if, I don't know if people would. noticed but I definitely did. My brother, he's the only one that probably noticed. Okay. You're sure. You distance yourself from family and friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. Like, my mom's got a lot of siblings. I've got a lot of aunties and, you know, they've got a lot of kids. Yeah. So on paper, it's a very big family, you know, like, got like a lot of cousins, a lot of first cousins as well. But it got to the point, you know, people like message me and stuff and I'd leave them on delivered for months. I just, I just didn't want

to talk to any. I just didn't want to talk to any. I didn't want to talk to anyone. Is that also in the time where you became your mother's primary care? Yes. Okay. I think that happened first. Okay. So that happened first and then me becoming my mom's, yeah, primary care, I would say that happened after.

That happened when I came back from uni. So at this point, I'm still in uni, I'm still kind of running away from my problems a little bit. I'm not addressing anything head on, but I'm angry and I'm hurt. and then I'm using, you know, distractions as a way to kind of take my mind of things and to kind of ease, you know, how I was feeling, easing the pain a little bit. But it just kept piling up. It was getting worse. And what are the distractions?

I was going out, you know, I was, I was partying, I was drinking. Yeah, you know, like just getting. You know, I was, it just took my mind of everything. That's kind of what helped me just, you know, forget about everything else that was going on. So you then became your mother's primary care? Yeah, yeah. So how do you do that? Because you have to leave school.

You have to leave school for that. So I graduated. Okay. So at that point, I've graduated now. I've come back home. That's about 2024, May, June. and I've seen, you know, the stuff that my brother, the little innuendos that my brother's been putting out there

in terms of my parents, because I didn't really actually know until I came back from uni. Now, my mum said her side, had a few brief conversations with my dad just because there was definitely a lot of resent towards him. And I was, like, back and forth between picking whose side I'm at on. You know, I loved them together. but first and foremost,

I need to learn to love them as individuals. I feel like that's when I became, you know, more at peace with the whole idea of, you know, my parents aren't together. And once I was able to accept that, that's when caring for my mom became a little bit easier.

Again, it's even hard just to be in the house in general because they're both there at this point. Yeah, that's a new thing. So they're living in the same house? Yeah, that's that, yeah. Hold on for a second. Yeah. So they're living in the same house.

Yeah. They're separated, or divorce at this point, separated. Still not technically divorced, but yeah, I know the papers are coming through whatever, but yeah, divorce separated. So they're separate. They're not communicating. Not communicating. And then that means your father then is stopped caring for your mom. Stopped.

Completely. Completely. So she, without you and your brother. Yeah. There's no one. There's no one. We've got a team of carers now. And to be fair, they have been there.

But there's days, you know, where it might be me and my brother. There's definitely days where it'll be at least one of us. But there's days where it could be both of us. You know, if you think at Christmases, boxing days, that type of thing. Okay. But, yeah, dad's, yeah, completely out of the picture. That's a tough situation. Yeah.

That's tough. Because also, too, is I could see, I mean, I'm trying to put myself into that, right? But I could see myself being resentful at my father. You see, yeah. Yeah. That's how it started. Yeah. That's how it started.

Yeah. It took time for me to really try and, you know, process things. In the care, if you could, because I think carers are under, there's a lack of understanding. Yeah, 100%. For what a care goes through. And the impact, I think especially as a child caring for a parent. Yeah. What are all the things that you had to do for your mother?

Everything, but in terms of that personal care, that's the only thing that she's always been adamant that she doesn't want me and my brother to do, you know, and I always respect that. And, yeah, I feel like that's something that would never, ever change. But everything else, yeah, we do. So what's everything? So everything, you know, transferring her from the bedroom to the living room, going to appointments with her, administering medication, administering water, you know, cleaning, so she's got a tracheostomy, which is basically like a ventilator. So in terms of looking after that piece of equipment, cleaning that, everything else.

Like hoisting her, turning her in bed, using that helping her set up on the eye gaze. everything, picking up medication from the pharmacy, everything. Right, preparing food. Preparing food, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so what has been the impact on, on you and your mental health being her care?

I think for me, trying to process my mom's illness is one thing, but also trying to do the best to make her proud. Like, I'm a young age, especially with football. I think football is the thing that really affected me because if I would go out and have a game on a Saturday and not play well, I felt like I was letting my mum down because I want to be able to give her the life that she deserves. I want to be able to make her proud.

I wanted to see me playing on TV, you know, these... And then I would have a bad game and, oh my, like, I would lose it, like, in my room. And in a weird way, I think it kind of came out a little bit in Love Island a little bit. Like, you see aspects of me, like, storming off and stuff and having a little tantrum on the moment. Like, I do that, you know, I've been doing that since I was a kid.

I'm not saying that's the reason why, but I think I've seen a couple clips on it. It's like, I recognised this. You know, I used to do this when I was a kid, that when things weren't going my way and I felt like I was letting, especially my mum down, just be in my room, huffing and puffing, I'd be like, you know, I can't do anything right.

And then that same question you asked me, now it's giving me so much more perspective on life. It's made me realize, you know, what's important in life. It's made me It's brought me to here funnily enough You know I feel like

I was saying to myself Last night This line just kept going on On in my head People think that You know I'm here because of Love Island But I'm here because of my mum

And The reason I'm here Because of my mum Is because The choices that I've made From the day she got diagnosed That's what's led me here Everything I've done

I've just tried to make her proud You know I made her a promise about two years ago, no, a year ago, she was in hospital. I can't remember exactly what was going on. I think it was fibroids. Don't call me, but I know she was in a really bad way. And for me, I thought that, you know,

it wasn't looking too great, you know. Again, the same feeling that I had when she was 14, when she said to my dad, look after the boys, now my dad's out of picture. I kind of felt that same energy now at 23. and I remember saying to myself or saying to her, I need you to keep going

because I'm going to do something great. Like I can feel it, like something's lingering. Like I know something's, there's going to be a happily ever after after this. You know, she gave me a smile as best as she could. And that's why I say,

the only reason I'm here is because of my mom getting diagnosed in 2012. I understand. Yeah. And I find it so interesting. Man, you didn't navigate a lot of this with your father in the house.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, in the house, yeah. And you're the older brother. Older brother as well. Yeah. Now I can see that there was a drive, a hunger. Hunger, that's the word. That's in you, to achieve something. Yeah, yeah.

Something big. It has to be, yeah. Is this part of how you decided to go on Love Island? And how did that come about? How was, who reached out to who? Um, so it was always like a joke in my friendship, so. in my friendship circle, I'd say. You know, we kind of used to watch Love Island as kids, me and my friends.

And it'd always be like, you know, that could be you one day type of thing. And I always said, no, football is the only thing I'd ever do, you know. Imagine missing a whole summer of preseason, you know, to sit in a villa talking to girls all day and the sun. Like, you know, I should be training. You know, I've got dreams to achieve and stuff, you know, I need to change my mom's life. And it was a girl that one of my friends from uni, she just sent it to me. like the application link one time on DM and um

you're like you should do this like I could see you doing this and I was like oh gosh everyone keeps saying this to me like you know maybe maybe maybe this is I don't know you know but I said to her like there's no chance there's like a million people that apply for this show every year applied and yeah yeah no when you get there okay I know that that first kind of lineup is everything because you don't know who else is on

the show you don't know who they are, what they look like, et cetera. Right. I think also what must be the case, I don't think I've ever talked to anyone about this, but I'm going to say that it's got to be. You tell me if I'm wrong, is if you are black, if you are Asian, and you are on this show, you're looking to see how many other black people are there, how many other Asian people, how many other people of color, whatever it may be.

Yeah. You know, so, hey, did you do that? Yeah. And then when you're looking, what are you thinking? What's your initial thoughts looking at everyone? Yeah, for sure. I think for me in that cast, there's O.P. Samraj, Jazz, Priya and Angie and Mika. So there was quite a few to be fair.

But for me, you know, from a related standpoint in terms of life, Sam Raj was, I think, we're not the first, when I say the first, it took me a while to connect with a lot of people. But he was the first out of, you know, that initial group in terms of, you know, relatability. And we started talking about life. And he has his own battles and adversity that he's gone through in his life. And, you know, I open up to him about my mom and my brother and my family dynamic. So we were able to, like, click quite well in terms of that standpoint.

But obviously prior to that, if we're talking like first, it was Angie. Yeah. So you walked in, you saw Angie. Yeah. And did you think, okay, that is it. That's it. That's it. Because remember, I came in as a bombshot, so I really saw her on my TV.

That's true. And I really knew, you know. And then when I heard she was in Barbem, like, I was like, yeah, come on. Like, guys, this is too, like, this is, you know, like, what is this at this point? It's actually like, what is this? You know, we might as well just, you know what I mean, just call it, a day here, you know? Right.

Like, it was just too good to be true. Like, genuinely felt like this is just too good to be true, you know? What was your impression? So when you saw her, what were you thinking? Just like, wow. Like, definitely I remember the first thought, I was nervous. I thought, wow, she's even better looking in person. There's so many things that, you know, I couldn't really tell from a TV screen that now I'm

looking at I'm like wow like you know just just like the poise that's the word I always used to describe but there's just so much poise there's just so much elegance grace the way that she just like conducts herself you know especially in group settings I always say to her you know you're not the loudest voice but you're the voice that's heard and for me that describes my perfect woman like my part my future partner in terms of the one of the major characteristics that I want you know You're not the loudest voice, but you're the voice that's heard. Yeah.

I love that. Yeah. I'd say from everyone that I know that talks about, you know, that talks about every, all the participants. When Angie's name comes up, it's always the most mature. You know, like this, this was to your point, the voice is always heard. Always heard. Yeah.

Yeah. What do you believe she thought of you the moment that she first saw you? I see the spot. What do you think she really thought? You know, she's told me a few things. Now, I've seen a few things as well in terms of after our first conversation, you know. I think she said immediately, yes, you know, immediately, yes. I think in terms of like her type and stuff, I kind of fit, you know, that kind of,

from like a physical standpoint anyways, you know, what she's told me I've heard anyways, you know, that like I'm her type. Okay. And I think with Angie, it normally takes people quite a while to get to know me to kind of understand how my brain works. But she picked up very quickly, which is a little bit scary, to be honest.

Okay. Yeah. Do you know what her biggest concern about you was when she met you? And just initially? Yeah, when she met me initially, I think she thought that, that I would just be doing, just be talking to this girl, talking to that girl.

Like, I just, I'd be a player, you know, I'd just be having fun. I wouldn't really be genuine, which I understand, because I've been having these kind of problems, even on the outside before Love Island. You know, girls would say that to me. You know, the wondering eye, you know, they did. I've had, I've had it, yeah, basically all my life from women, they'd always tell me these things. So do you think that's what she thought, or you know, for sure,

sure. That's what I think. But you don't know for sure? I don't really know, no. Okay. On that note, how about we ask her? The boss. How about we ask her? Yeah, it's ask her.

Because I need to know the answer to this. Yeah, yeah. Can we bring Angie? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. Hey, Paul, we've got a surprise for you. You do.

All right. Who's it from? It's love from your listeners. We Need to Talk is sponsored by Claude Bionthropic. The AI for Mindset Don't Stop at Good Enough. So we thought we'd use it to make Paul something special from you. Using Claude, we analyzed every comment left on all the 102 YouTube episodes and then prompted it to turn that data into something beautiful.

This design is 10-10. We talk to each other. 6,021. That's how many ongoing conversations were sparked in the comments of your episodes. Wow. Thank you for giving us the confidence to be as open with each other as your guests are with you. That is a lot. of conversations.

And that, I would say, has been my biggest surprise about We Need to Talk, is how many people continue the conversation from the episode into their lives with people they love, with their friends, with their family, with their partners, and how those conversations then help them to change their behavior. And so that's all I could ask. For delving deeper, get started with clod.a.ai slash talk. That's claude.a.com. Angie first, thank you.

Thank you so long. For being here. I was talking about at the top that initially this was just going to be a Simba conversation. Yeah. I got a little message from you. Right? And it was so compelling that I thought, okay, we have to have you here.

All right. But we'll talk about that in a little bit. But right now, we're in Love Island. Okay. We're at you two just meeting. Oh, gosh. Okay. And I just asked Simba a question that I need to hear from you what the true answer is.

So when you first saw Simba, I just asked him, what was your truly, like, what was your number one concern about him? because I think he fit your type. Oh, yeah. But what was of concern to you? I think it was just the level of seriousness. Yeah, I was like, I don't know how serious he is, especially with this environment, I'm thinking, I don't know if he's really going to take me in.

I don't know. You might say he's interested, but I don't know to what extent. Is it just like, just on a vibey, like you just want to flirt kind of vibe or like, do you want to go deeper? So that's, that was my concern. I don't know if he was going to play around. Okay. Or not. Okay.

All right. That's fair. That's fair. Did he, did you feel like he was, I mean, I'm assuming you thought he was attractive. Yeah. Right. Did you feel like immediately he was the one and the only one? Yeah.

For me, I don't know, that instant connection was crazy. Was it? Like, that first conversation, I haven't felt like that in a long time. And I've been single for like four years. And I've been on dates. And it just, it never hit like that in person for the first time. Really? Even with the cameras?

Even with the cameras. You literally forget about them. I forget about it. Okay. When we was talking, it literally just felt like everything else was dark and it was just us. Okay. It was crazy. Okay. So how, you know, when you're having this first conversation, right? I know you have to try to work out, okay, you're on a show. Is the person serious? Right. Is this real? Are they really into me? Right. How do you do that in a conversation like that?

I feel like for me, I just gauge like how vulnerable are you willing to get because I'm the type of person. I don't like surface level conversations. I feel like it's just a waste of time. And, I think it was like the second or third night in bed. He got really vulnerable to a point where like he was like crying in my arms. Just talking about his mom and obviously what he wants to do for her. And he's just like crying. I'm thinking it's literally been like three days. And from that point onwards, I was like, oh, okay, it's deeper. Like this guy's like I, he, like, I don't know.

Is it fair to say that you felt like I was your safe space? I don't know. Like, it just felt like he felt safe in that moment. And I felt like I wanted to be there in that moment. And from then, it was like something that was like an unsaid connection between us. Okay. Like, no one else knew that but us. So it was like a...

You're okay? Yeah, yeah. I'm good. Sorry, sorry. Yeah, it was deep. And from then I was like, yeah, like, he's serious. So let me... Yeah.

Let me be. Let me see. Let me see you. Let me take him in a little bit. Can we just touch on that conversation? And the reason why I want to touch on it is because from what I understand, it was not aired. A lot of our conversations in bed were really deep, really vulnerable, like beyond beliefs. Yeah.

Yeah. We used to have. And it's not aired. Yeah. It wasn't aired at all. Our conversations were crazy. Like we would stay up. The lights would go off and like we was always told where the last ones to go to sleep.

We'll be up two hours after the lights are out, two three hours. Just talking. Just talking. Just talking. So what was it then? Because it seems like that conversation, something happened in that conversation that cemented you to. Like perhaps you've never been close to anyone else. Yeah.

Can you share what you talked about? He started it off, to be honest. I think I was getting scared, basically. I was getting scared that it's only, it was day four, I think, the fourth day. And I was getting scared that she was very quickly becoming like the only person in here for me. So when the sleepover comes,

you two have already, in essence, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but almost like committed to each other. Is that too strong? I mean, it was, it was an underlying understanding. Yeah, okay. Like we knew under the surface, that's what it was. It was an underlying understanding. Yeah, underlying understanding, but yeah.

Okay. We knew here. Yeah. Okay, here. Here. But I knew that our story wasn't going to be a situation where we can just roll with that and just, you know. be off with the fairies. Okay.

When was the first true test of your relationship? The hideaway, the hideaway situation, it was a bit of a sticky one. I just felt like I understood you to a level where it's like, I know you. And the hideaway thing, it was just like, what? Like I was. So can you explain? For anyone who didn't watch, Yeah.

Right. Yeah. But they want to understand how this was a test for your relationship. What happened at the hideaway? So I went away, I think it was for a night, to the sleepover villa. And at that time, I was getting to know mea a little bit. And in the sleepover villa, you know, we tried to explore the connection. And we came back.

I mean, I don't want to put you on the spot on this. But how do you try to explore a connection? Like, what are the activities to explore a connection? In Love Island terms, you know, exploring connections is like you kiss basically. And you try to, you know, kind of just see if there's any feelings there. Again, this isn't how I would operate on the outside. But, you know, Love Island is its own unique environment where people kind of, you know, feel the urge to. really interact with one another, especially in a physical, physical way.

So, yeah, we kissed in the sleep of a villa, but we didn't end up sharing a bed that night because she got picked by Chidi to share her bed and stuff. So she decided to sleep with Chidi that night. But she said, you know, there's another opportunity. If another opportunity comes up to like share her bed or whatever, then, you know, she'd be happy to do so. So we came back to the main villa now and I was coupled up with Angie at the time but you can only go to the hideaway

with someone you're not in a couple with so given that we didn't get the opportunity to do so in the sleep of a villa I thought okay why not share a bed with me just to see again where my head's at give me some more clarity because it's like for me me and Angie were so good at that point

and I was a little bit like you know everyone keeps saying I need to still explore. At this point, it's only been just over a week. I haven't even been in the villa for two weeks yet. So it's still early and I kept thinking, how can I explore this connection more to see how I really feel? Because I kiss me, but I still don't really feel anything.

So I was like, maybe if I share her bed with her, then that will, you know, spark something or maybe that might make me realize, okay, cool, I actually really like her. Which again, looking back now, it just sounds like nonsense, truthfully. Honestly, it does. Yeah, it's not, it is. It is nonsense. It's nonsense.

All right. So I have to ask. So, Angie, what's your take on? That I was speechless. Like, genuinely, I didn't have any words when he told me that that was his idea. Like, it seemed way out of character for him. Just based on our private conversations. So I was just like, I don't know.

Like, it was very strange to me that, like, because it didn't even make sense. Because I was like, this is your first night back. and then you want to not sleep you've been away for three days your first night back I've been sleeping alone for three days and then was it three days or two nights

I don't even know about two nights okay felt like three days and then and then you want to come back and then be in a hideaway and I'm slept by myself knowing that you're with someone else

like yeah that was insane to me I couldn't even say anything like in an amazing beautiful way I would have cussed him out. But I just could not speak. Like, there was no words.

All there was was just, like, little tears coming out because I'm like, this can't be. So you were hurt? Yeah. Yeah. Truly hurt. Yeah. Did you feel like the underlying understanding was no more?

Yeah, I did feel like, I don't know, it just felt like maybe I was just like, that was just a me thing. Maybe it was just my own understanding. and maybe he's just, I don't know, off with the fairies somewhere. Okay. Simba, did you know how hurt Angie was? Yeah, I remember telling her about, you know,

me wanting to go to the hideaway with me because she started crying. And I think it was the first time I've seen you crash. And then I started to realize, okay, like, you know, this guy actually likes me. do you feel any level of responsibility being a black couple on Love Island while you were on the project? Do you have a lot of friends? For me, I would say yes. Because I know there's a lot of younger black girls watching, older black women watching. So for me, I was being myself

and I dealt with the situations just naturally how I felt in the moment. But then there was times where I was like, oh, like I should have probably went a bit harder because it's like I know like probably people watching like they probably wanted that for me to go hard and for my situation to be like, you know what?

Stand up for yourself as a black woman. be strong in a sense of like, don't take, you know, foolishness kind of thing. And then obviously the way I dealt with, like, the first situation, for instance, it was just like, yeah, it was, so I did kind of have that in my mind where I was like, I felt like, yeah, I should, I could have went a bit harder. I feel like you probably had it worse. Yeah. For me, I think, I remember when my dad came on family day, and this is actually related to

Anjay, he came on family day and again, I don't think they aired this, but he said to me, he basically gave me an inkling of like, what's to come, that outside, the noise, you know, there's going to be some hate and stuff, especially from black women, you know. He kind of, he didn't say it explicitly like that, but he kind of, like, dropped it, you know, kind of just put the seed in my head for me to, like, actually digest what you're saying. And he basically said to me that you have to understand that Angie's a black woman. And, you know, at this point, me and Angie were good,

we're in a very good place. But he said you have to understand that, you know, social media, like Angie said, that there's women that are looking at Angie like a sister. Yeah. You know, like a daughter, you know. And they feel, they can't exactly feel what she's feeling, but, you know, they're empathizing a lot to Angie's situation.

And you're a black man as well, you know, so you have to, you just basically said to me, like brace yourself. And I think that moment, that's when it kind of clicked for me, that, okay, there is extra pressure, especially, you know, in our couple,

black man, black woman, and what we're representing as well. With Love Island, too, is what was the moment for you, Simba? The moment where you fully trusted. Fully trusted, Angie. The recoupling speech

the last recoupling speech that she did before basically the last one of the whole season she stood up black dress when black dress and I remember standing literally like diagonally opposite her and she was in flow state like some of the stuff she was saying like only my person would be able to say these things. And the fact that she was saying it not just to me, but I know just to all the islanders, the whole country, you know, she was speaking about, like, me being God-fearing and me opening up to her and being vulnerable

and us loving each other and me being like a part of home for her. I was just like, whoa. Like, she, to be fair, all her recopening speeches were really good, but that one, yeah, that's the one I'll never. ever forget because I just remember I didn't know where to look I was just like whoa like she she just keeps kept going and going and going and going and my face was hurting from smiling and you know and I don't know if they I'm guess they had to obviously like edit it because it was like that was a lengthy amount of time was it and all the boys were like to me wow like you know

Angie like that was one of the greatest speeches I've ever heard and I remember saying to the boys it's not even my birthday you know like imagine what she's going to do on my birthday when she's like standing up and having to speak about me and that's how she made me feel it made me feel like it was my birthday so imagine the wedding imagine the wedding crazy it's gonna be crazy ridiculous yeah i loved it um angie what was the moment that you fully found trust and simba um i think it was the day after he came back from casa and he he he he he called it a day with Mara the next day. And when I was hearing his behavior in bed with her,

like the day they came back from Cassad that night, like he turned over, like he just, no talking, no touching, no nothing. I was upstairs, so I didn't see what was going on in the bed downstairs. That was the first night that they spent together in the villa in bed. So I was just a bit like, oh, that what's going on in the day talking? Like, I still hadn't really gauged the same. situation because I don't know anything. So then when the next day I'm hearing that that was the case and he was going to call

it a day, I was like, oh. Yeah, after one day. After one day, it hadn't even been 24 hours. It really was just the night, basically. It was literally just the night and then the next. In the morning. Yeah. It came back in the night.

And by the morning, I just said, yeah, it's done. Yeah. So for me, that was like a big teller for me. I was like, oh, okay. Yeah. He's, like, serious. Like, he knows, like, what he wants. for real, because he could have dragged it on

and done the whole triangle, limbo situation. Oh, I don't know you or her. But, like, yeah, he brought her and then, like, literally the next morning, it was, like, done. So I was just like, okay, I can trust that he knows what's what. Like, the pennies dropped now for him.

Yes, yes, okay. So now you both finish third. Yeah. Okay. I see here that the season 13 finale had 1.1 million viewers and countless millions viewed clips, etc., right? So still incredibly popular. Were you surprised that you came in third?

That's the question. I wasn't surprised. You weren't surprised. Lunky, we was like, okay, like, deaf are not winning, but more so, like, we was like second, maybe, but we was like third, like, we was like, to be honest, because even like Jazz was saying to me, like, the day before she was like, you're definitely going to be second. And I was like, not really because I was like, let's boil it down to race now.

Like, really and truly, I don't know. For my understanding, I'm like, do black people vote like that, for real, for real? Like, just based on that, I was like, yeah, we'll probably just be bad. Yeah. Yeah. So you thought. So you thought third, but it sounds like you wanted one of two places up. Yeah.

Yeah, just knowing our connection, what was you going to say? I feel like a big tell tell for me was all the ex-islanders coming and I'll never forget that day. You know, all the ex-islanders, every single person that we've lived with, they've seen our highs, but they've also seen our lows as well. But the most important thing is, it's 24 hours worth, you know, so they're living every single single. day with us and we didn't get any votes and I remember the vote was who doesn't deserve to get to the final oh doesn't doesn't yeah he doesn't deserve to get to the final and I think there was some couples on like eight votes seven vote every every every every basically every couple had at least two votes the next up was yeah two and those are the winners you leona reynzo got two but we had none you know

so for me I feel like that that could have in terms of from the public perspective you know If I'm watching that member of the public, I'm thinking, okay, maybe cool. They might not be my favorite couple, but at end of the day, these are the people that are spending the most time with them every day. And they think that they're not worthy of getting any votes as a reason why they shouldn't get to the final. Okay. So it sounds like you were hopeful that you could have won. I was hopeful, but like Angie said, we knew we weren't going to win.

Realistically, that was just hopeful thinking. Me and Cav literally said Lorenzo Yulia winning it. A second is a flip of a quayan. We literally said, me and Cavillian Kav literally said that flip of a quorum. And even the percentages, I think we missed that by one. What, 1.1% or something? Yeah, it was close. Yeah, very close.

It was very close. That's interesting. Yeah. That's interesting. So now a question I asked earlier, but now Angie have to come to you, right? This is not to put you on the spot, but it is to put you on the spot. Okay. Did you find love in the villa?

Yeah. Yeah. Without question. Without a question. Without a question. Without a question. Without a question. Still in love now.

All right. So where do we stand right now? Because we touched on it earlier. Yeah, we've spoken about it. But now that we're here now, so we have two lovers sitting awfully close. Yeah. Okay.

Where do we stand right now in terms of our coupling? Like I said. I think it's up to him. Well, I think you can't be in love and not be in. Yeah, for sure, for sure. That doesn't make sense. And not be what? And not be boyfriend and girlfriend.

Yeah. So. You can't be in love and not in a relationship. For sure, yeah. What's that about? Do you know what I mean? I think, I agree. And she knows this, you know, outside world and being in that villa, it's like, it's like polar opposites basically.

Yeah. In a sense, you know. It's just time, Paul. I think it's just genuinely. Oh my gosh. Like every time. There's been no time. go on a date and just like phones down and just look at her and just take her in and take

just take us in. There was a moment where we was like, you know what, tonight we're actually just going to sit and watch Netflix. Yeah. Put down our phones. Yes. And just have us time because since coming out, it's just been go, go, go, go, go. There's been no time.

There's been no time. No time. But you know, it's interesting. He's that we're seated here on the couch, right? Yeah. Candles. No. It's kind of romantic.

Kind of romantic. Right? We have had Andrew just say. It's up to me. It's up to him. It's up to him what he wants to do. I don't know if he wants to. I feel like you was taking time because you wanted to plan something.

I just feel like God works mysterious ways. I had a conversation with my brother last night. You know, I came back from football late last night. And I had one of my, like, you know, those moments. So I'm just like, oh, half and puffing and stuff. I felt that on FaceTime. I was like, do you want five minutes? Yeah.

And I said to my brother, like, when am I going to find a time to make her my girlfriend? Like, I just need to just, I need to do this. And my brother was like, you don't need to force you. I'm going to right. I was like, I want to do this now, you know, because again, I'm thinking about her and I don't want her to feel, like you just said, how can I be in love and not be official? Because I had a feeling, these feelings might start to seep in. I don't want that for you.

And I know how I feel, you know, I love you. And, you know, she's making. my whole family. But again, it's just crazy. I literally had this conversation with my brother last night. Yeah, there you go. I'm telling you.

I've lived our life on camera for so long. Yeah. I just want to have our moment. The private moments are like everything to us. No, seriously. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank you. I mean, it's, it's been epic. I'll see you later. Enjoy it. Oh, come on. Come on. I'm just talking to him.

Oh, sorry. All right. I can't believe I'm saying this. We are on the pathway. We could see it. The light is at the end of the tunnel to one million subscribers. And so here's what I want to say is, if you're already subscribed, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

If you are not yet subscribed, I ask you to do so. Why? Because signals to the world that these conversations matter. So if you're not subscribed, please do so. If you are, thank you so very much. I appreciate you spending some time with me. Yes. came about last minute.

Oh, yeah. This conversation. But when you wrote to me and I read what you wanted to talk about, it's a topic that I've always wanted to talk about here. But never had anyone to do it with. Yeah. Wow. Thank you. Honestly, thank you so much for even giving that time a day.

I don't even think you would. So as much as you want to go into this, if you could, maybe what we should do is if you could explain to everyone watching what it was that you wrote to me? So it was just more so basically just my experience as a black woman on Love Island. I felt like my experience was, it did feel lonely sometimes compared to like other female Love Island contestants. I felt like the desirability, it's always really been a topic. So it wasn't like I was walking into Love Island being like, oh yeah, I'm going to be desired by everyone.

Like I knew there was a risk in that. But it's just living it. It just hits different. So my thing was like, I was. I walked in there, was hardly desired. And then when someone finally walked in, that was like gunning for me straight away. From the outside, he said,

Angie straight away, came inside, same energy. When I finally had that, the one time, I just felt like now my narrative had to be a situation where he's the player and I'm sitting around and I'm just waiting for him to finish his dog days when in reality it's like I had no options for real like I wasn't given

like they gave him all the options like you know he had sleepover opportunities he had you know people was interested multiple people was interested in him like not even like just when he walked in so many people like literally the next morning there was like yeah respectfully Angie

I'm going to also get to know Simba So it's like, can I have one thing? So it just felt like, okay, he has his options, but like, okay, can we bring in someone that I can also get to know and, you know, test our connection on my side? Because now it just looks like I'm just sitting here looking like a fool when it's like it's not by choice. I see it. Like my hand was forced to sit here and because like who else is? I'm not going to speak to someone who's not interested in me just for the stage. of like trying to explore like no one's interested in me and no one came in interested in me.

Yes. I was actually sitting there and I was thinking, hold on, but like I had a really difficult experience like in terms of just my experience just as a black woman and I haven't seen anyone else do it. That's why I was like, let me let me say something because I really need to just get it off my chest. Like I was talking to my mom and I was just there like, no, like that wasn't right what happened. Like, because now I look crazy.

Like, do you know what I mean? But yeah, it was, yeah, you get it. Yeah, no, fully, fully. Thank you for that. When you wrote that to me, the reason why I was so interested to talk about it and the reason why I have wanted to talk about this topic is because I don't think, I know,

not only in the UK, in the U.S., In many other countries, there is, I would call it, a horrendous problem with how black women are treated on television. Yeah. Now, that's not to say black men are not treated horribly or white men, white women, etc., certain religion, certain nationality. etc. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But this is a conversation about black women. Yeah.

And we're going to keep it at that. Yeah. I know some people are going to say, oh, Paul, no, no, no. This is about black women. Yeah. And you touched on what I think is one of this underlining issues that I see in the two, because I'm working in the U.S. and the U.K. Yeah, right.

And that word is desirability. Yeah. And the issue that I see. is that by placing you as a black woman on a reality show, and if you feel as if there is no options, if you feel as if there is no desirability, it's like you're saying there were no options for me. Not only is there an impact on you,

but then the perception is that you have black women watching at home, and we know that there's a parisocial relationship. with reality TV. People have a relationship. They see you. They're like, Angie's me. Or Angie's my sister. Or Angie's my daughter.

Like, Angie is, I'm connected to her. We have a relationship. And the more that they could feel, you not feeling desired, it's internalized. Yeah. And so then even though I'm sure people fight to have you on

for representation by not giving you a full experience, what it does is it's actually a ripple effect of being detrimental. Yeah. And I'll even go a step further is I think it's incredibly detrimental to black men.

Yeah. Because you have black men watching and they say, oh, look at that. oh, she's not desirable, right? Or they say, she looks, she doesn't have a lot of options. And then they watch the parasycial relationship they have with Simba and say, well, look at all the options. Yeah. Fish in the sea.

Fish in the sea. So this is something that has just upset me. And from the inside, I have, I'm telling you, I have had endless conversations, endless conversations with production companies, with networks, we got to change this. This has got to change. We're doing disservice to this person. Do you know what this is happening here? And so that's why when you said that message to me, like, it was one of those, it was a trigger for me. Yeah, because you're trying to fix it and it's like.

It's just not changing. So why did you feel as if you had no other options? I think it was just point blank in my face. Literally, when I walked in the first day, we had to sit around the fire pit, and it was a situation where I think it was like, oh, yeah, so who finds this person attractive or, oh, like, who would you say is wifie material?

and like my name is everyone else sitting there, their name is getting called for something. In terms of attractiveness, wifie material. Wifi, I got it from Opie, which I was like, I think he's seen it. I think by that point he's seen that, okay, no one's even batting her eyelid at Angie. So the wifie material came up.

I'm thinking, okay, maybe someone's going to feel sorry for me at least then be like, you know what, she's quiet, she's very demure, maybe this is wife, we can just say, yeah, like, and you, like, at least, like, but no one and everyone, I was just sitting there, if you see my body language, even when I watched it back, even just living in that moment, I was just like, yeah, I was like, oh, that's nice, like, for the other girls, I was like, happy for them. But then I was, like, that reality just set in, like, where I am, and I was just there, like, this is where it all starts. Like, this is where it all starts. No one's even batten the eyelids, except for

one person. So it's like, automatically now it's a situation where I have to entertain this situation because he's the only one interested in me. I had chats with a lot of the guys. Within the first couple of days in the villa, we was all pulling everyone for a chat. We was all chatting to each other. And just even in those interactions,

it just felt on their side, like just potanic straight away. Like, you can just feel the vibes. And it was never a thing where there was someone continuously pulling me for a chat and being like, actually, yeah, we had a good first conversation. I want to, because I had ideas in my head where I'm like, actually, me and such and such, we had a good conversation. So actually, I'm going to entertain that.

Even though I was coupled up with OPE, I was like still like, okay, let me actually see. But it wasn't really, I didn't feel from their side. So I kind of was just like, no, like I'm not even going to because you can just tell when people aren't interested. So that's when I started to feel like, yeah, I don't have options here. Okay. So I have to kind of be in a situation where I'm with someone who's not all the way my type

and I have to kind of not force it, but now I have to force myself to grow into liking this person. Like when I know it's a situation where first conversation we did, there was an instant spark romantically. But I felt like I had to just hone into that because I'm like, hey, he's the only one that's like showing any type of interest. Yeah. And I just, yeah.

And did you feel as if, because he was the only one, that if you didn't show interest, then that's it for you. Oh, yeah. Oh, 100%. Like 100%. I was on that next flight. And obviously, when I walked in, you're told, be open, be open, be open. So I'm like, okay, cool. He's not my typical type for real.

So this is my be open moment. So I'm like, okay, you know what, let me just be open. So that was my moment where I'm like, not really thinking about, oh, my gosh, I'm going to go home if I don't show interest. But it was just more like, hey, let me just be open and see where this openness leads. But yeah, I ended up just leading, like, you know, I mean, I ended up finding out that he was saying that. I think one of his intro is like a Scottish blonde is his type. So I was like, oh, right then. Yeah, then you're.

I was like, there you go. Then you're out. Now I'm like, okay. What do you think the future looks like and what can we do? I think for me, the ideal future is to bring, when you're like trying to take the diversity box for these shows, these dating shows, like not only take that box, but make sure that they get the full experience as well. Like what you were saying, like I just feel like us coming in and taking that box for you. It's all good and well. but then when we're having experience where it's like all the other girls, they have,

they're in situations where, you know, like with my situation, for instance, there's bombshells walking in and they're saying, oh yeah, like this girl, that girl and it's consistently like other girls, bar me, the only like full black girl, I guess, like dark skin, mind you. So, yeah, like everyone else is like interested in this one, that one, like that don't even look like me. I mean, I'm the only one wearing a wig. Like, so it's like I'm a specific type of niche.

So I feel like the diversity box is checked, but like winter has my experience, I feel like you need to also bring in people who are also interested in, you know, people that look like me. Like, because it's just not living it is, it's horror. Because I just feel like my narrative was now forced to be a situation where like I didn't want to be in a situation where I had to deal with what I had to deal with. To be honest, like, Simba was the best option in and out the villa. Like, I'm not saying that, oh, yeah, I want to, if there was someone to walk in, I would

have sacked him off because of the situations and I would have gone elsewhere. Right. And I wasn't given the opportunity. That's not what I'm saying. I just feel like the same way he got to explore, figure out where his heads are and whatnot, as much as I knew, like, okay, we have a strong connection. there was no opportunity for me. This is Love Island at the end of the day.

Like, it's a situation where it's like you're not going to get moments like this where you can sit and you can talk to this one and it's okay and sit and talk to this one and it's okay in front of each other's spaces because we're trying to figure out our situation and where we stand with each other. And it's like I wasn't, that was, I wasn't given the full love island experience to be honest. You just said something to that we didn't even touch, well, you touched on it and I'm glad you brought it up. Yeah.

colorism. Yeah. That is all, oh my guy. Yeah. Do we have another hour? Do we have another hour? It's crazy. It is, to me, and I mean, these are all the things that I'm just getting off my chest.

When I got to the UK, I noticed, all right, tell me if I'm, if, if this is inaccurate. Okay. Okay. This is my observation. Okay. is I noticed something very interesting about television shows here. And that is that television shows predominantly white shows, predominantly white shows. But as the show wanted to diversify, the first option typically was someone who was someone mixed race, light complexion.

Yeah, that's true. And by doing that, it was like a checkbox, right? And then what you see is then you see maybe two mixed-race people. So it's slowly. Yeah, it's very gradual. Baby steps. Baby steps. It's a humbling experience, to say the least.

That was a very humbling experience, especially when the person that you're coupled up with is speaking to this one or that one. And it's just like, I don't know, it's just, it's really humbling. Because like, when you think you have, like, such a connection to where it's like, yeah, like, and then you see the reality of what Love Island is, you have to talk to other people.

But then it's just like, and then you're sat there with nothing. It's like, in my spare time, I'm watching him having conversations. Like, it's like, because what else can I do? That place is small. And it was just, yeah, It was just, it was very humbling.

But there were good times. I'm not going to lie. Because in terms of my wake situation, I felt so seen. So seen. They were so understanding in terms of catering to me in that department. Like, if I needed more time in terms of my hair, because we would have, like, lunch before we would start getting ready for the nighttime. So they would say, okay,

like if you need to like change your wig or something ask us like if there's like three hours to get ready and you'll know that's your time to change your wig. Okay. And there was like you have to do like your beach huts before you can before I can start changing my look and getting ready. So they would say okay cool

if you need to change a wig we'll put you first on the list to do the beach hut so you can start getting ready and have the full three hours. Because sometimes you can be waiting for a beach shop for ages because you're waiting for everything. because you're waiting for everyone else to finish. Like my experience as a whole with like the team and everything in my process going through it. Like it was amazing.

I'm not even going to lie. I'll give that to them. But it was just the option part. If that was, if that was sorted, sorry, I wouldn't have a bad word to say. Yeah, yeah. And also I just felt like the whole, I don't know, like for me, it was like, why couldn't I just have the person that was gunning in for me? And we can just ride off in the sunset. Why did our narrative have to be toxic?

Especially as black people. It's just like, and then Zim men, they don't have a good rep. Like, Zim men are known to, they have a stereotype of being cheaters and stuff like that. So it's like our narrative doesn't help, you know, stereotypes. I see it. And it's like, I'm the strong black woman that stays. And it's like, you know, like the olden days where it's like, like your grandmas would tell you, oh, just stay.

Just stay. Just stay. It looks like that was my vibe. And my friends and family, they know me. I am completely opposite. I was literally like to my friend, I've done all this work being single for three, four years. And my standpoint on like men and how you should be treated.

Like it's all, it all just felt like it was just thrown in the bin because going on the show and my situation is complete opposite to what I preach and how I maneuver usually in the day and world. But it was like I was forced to be. in a situation just because I had no options. It looked like I was the loyal girl that wouldn't look left or right. But it was like I couldn't look left or right. If I could, I would have.

Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. I hear you. I hear you. Yeah. I wanted us to talk about this. Yeah. Because I wanted you to feel seen.

Yeah. Thank you so much. And know that there's, there's, there are this conversation, there is going to be an endless number of people who resonate with it. Yeah. Viewers, participants of different projects, participants of production companies and networks who are fighting because there's many, many people fighting to try to make this happen. It's something that needs to change. in this industry, right? It's an industry, for me, it's an industry issue.

I won't stop fighting on it. Thank you so much. And also, I almost wanted to have this conversation because this is something that I have been fighting on for 10 years. Easy. Wow, that's crazy. Been having conversations for 10 years. You know, this is the kind of behind-the-scenes work

that so many people are unaware that happens, the hard conversations that are happening. And even for me, I have to be delicate. Yes. You know, you gotta be delicate with you. You have to say it in a specific way because, do you know what I mean? Like, you can't, you can't be raw about it. Like, you have to say it in a persuasive, nice kind of,

but that's just because of like, just who we are as people. Like, just being black, you can't just be like, oh. But yeah, that's the reality. That's the reality. Yeah, that's the life we live. Yeah. But I say we're, we're, I always say, though, we're so blessed. I was gonna say that.

So blessed. blessed. Like I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to be any other way. No. Genuinely. Yeah. It's, it's one of those where I feel so blessed to be black. Yeah. You know what I mean? So blessed. Yeah. And so. Yeah. And it's always been the case, to be honest. There was never an identity crisis around here. Yeah. I believe that. Yeah, no, no, no, never that. It was never that. But yeah, I'm, I'm blessed. Yeah. There you go. All right. We're blessed.

We're blessed. We're blessed. We're blessed. We're black. We, you know what we are? What? We are blessed. We are black.

Yes. We are brilliant. You are beautiful. You say it. And we are everything. Yes, absolutely. Amen to that. Amen to that.

You know, I'm so glad we had this conversation. Yes, I'm so glad that I got this opportunity to speak to you. Of all people. this was like something that was like vision board vibes. Double whammy. It was great to hear Angie and Simba unpack their relationship and the dynamics of their relationship. I think we can all understand truly now how their relationship formed

and why it's so strong today. The conversation I had with Angie just the two of us was a conversation I've wanted to have publicly. for quite some time. And as we walk through that conversation, I could see that we were step and step, hand in hand, we were in full agreement. And I know we're not the only two that believe this.

I know there is an endless number of people that see what we see, not only people of color, but all people that see what we see, and realize something needs to change. I saw that you require men to sign an NDA and sometimes have a vasectomy. Did you ever get a vasectomy? Who, me? No.

Free balling. All right. Literally. Literally. Don't talk to me. So 16 and pregnant and T. Mom. I like got to the realest point in my life because I'm living in my car and going to school and also watching my kid.

So Derek is the father of your child? Yeah, he just showed me a lot of love. And I think sometimes when you're so desperate, you need just a touch. of love but not go for s' and for a bit of hard, what I sadly reached out to. I remember you were in all the tabloids. You were arrested several times.

Yeah, doing nothing. So what happened? Wow, you got serious there. It's so surreal because even like our immature fights, and I used to be like, well, I will never be there if you die. And then when someone you love really dies, you're like, why did I say all those stupid, hurtful things? The day that Derek passed, how does you know,

How did you find out? It's gonna bring me to tears. I have a very important surprise for you. You ready? Got that made my whole year.