We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Michelle Heaton: The Truth About Popstars & My Hidden Addictions “I Couldn’t Stop”

Episode Date: May 12, 2026

Michelle Heaton reflects on the reality of 2000s fame, from competing on Popstars to forming Liberty X and stepping into a pop world that was often chaotic and intense. She opens up about what was really happening behind the headlines: the pressure to look a certain way, the shame she carried around her body, and the early patterns of addiction that followed her long before she could name them.Michelle speaks candidly about alcohol and drug addiction, hiding the truth from her husband and children, and the painful moments where part of her wanted to be caught. Michelle also reflects on the friends who tried to help, the conversation with Katie Price that helped lead her to rehab, and the impact her addiction had on her marriage, motherhood and sense of self.Michelle also shares the emotional toll of her BRCA2 diagnosis, preventative double mastectomy and early hysterectomy, and what it meant to go through menopause in her early 30s while losing her sense of identity.Now five years sober, this is a conversation about fame, shame, survival, family, recovery and learning to give yourself grace.Michelle Heaton, We Need To Talk This conversation includes discussion of suicide, addiction and eating disorders. Please watch with care. Support resources are linked below: Samaritans: https://linkly.link/2dx7Z   CALM: https://linkly.link/2dx8H   MIND:  https://linkly.link/2dx8b   Beat Eating Disorders https://linkly.link/2dx8y  Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk   https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod   Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Follow Michelle here: https://www.instagram.com/wonderwomanshel/ https://www.tiktok.com/@michelleheatonofficial (00:00) Intro (01:26) What Makes Someone a Geordie? (06:28) Body Image Struggles (08:44) Being Cast on Popstars (12:53) Going Back to a Normal Job After Popstars (16:47) How Liberty X Was Formed (23:53) Hear’Say vs Liberty X (27:04) The Highs & Lows of Life in Liberty X (35:02) Paul Surprises Michelle With a Letter (37:40) ID Mobile Ad (38:53) Relationship With the Press (42:00) Relationship With Andy Scott-Lee (47:58) ID Mobile Ad (50:45) First Experiences With Substance Abuse (56:10) Addiction to Alcohol and Binge Eating (01:04:33) Impact of Hysterectomy (01:11:55) Hiding Addiction From Everyone (01:15:19) How Addiction Affected Her Marriage (01:28:53) How Michelle Eventually Went to Rehab (01:40:24) The Reality of Mastectomies & Hysterectomies (01:57:11) Surprise Message From Her Children (01:58:14) Paul Reads a Letter From Michelle’s Husband (02:01:34) Most Memorable Conversation (02:06:32) Paul’s Takeaways Sponsored by: iD Mobile: Ditch the texts and ‘Make it a Call’ - your voice is more powerful than you think: https://www.idmobile.co.uk/make-it-a-call?affiliate=marketing%7CYouTube_Display%7CMakeItACall_Brand&utm_source=YouTube&utm_medium=Display&utm_campaign=MakeItACall&utm_content=Brand Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Are you one of those media strategy people clicking through slides, scrolling spreadsheets? Yes? Good. This is for you. Because on Spotify, there's an audience that's different. Locked in. Loyal, invested. They're called fans. Fans don't just listen to music. They feel seen by it, like it belongs to them. So when your brand shows up on Spotify, that's who you're talking to. And you're right next to artists like me, Lizzo. So, are you ready to talk to fans? Spotify Advertising. You're among fans. As I'm getting ready to go in the car to leave, there was a bottle of gin and I downed it.

And her son walked in and said, Auntie Michelle, you're not meant to be doing that, are you? Michelle Heaton. The winner is Liberty X. Liberty X, International Success. You had 10 consecutive top 20 singles. Growing up, had this absolute vision to being a pop band. Richard Branson was watching the TV show we were on. Pop Stars.

And would love to sign us. It was just so much fun. Who was it that called you all the flop star? Okay, um, I believe it was... Really? I didn't realize how low it actually got for you. I don't remember ever doing a gig sober. I was struggling behind the scenes with my addictions.

I would binge eat, and then I would go and get drunk, and then I'd start again. I was outed by my manager. He said, you can't wait. I was the only one of the three girls in that shoot to wear a dress because I couldn't fit into the cat suit. I lost everything I thought I knew by myself. I was really scared.

What were you scared of, Michelle? Can I show you something? Hey there, before we begin the episode, I just want to say, thank you for choosing we need to talk. Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life. And I want to continue to share it with you. So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast. Michelle Heaton, we need to talk.

Just like that, we're talking. Okay. Where I think we should begin is ironically where I was yesterday. Oh. This is, is it Gateshead that you... Oh my God. Are you in Gateshead? What are you doing in Goethe? So, all right. So I was close by in Newcastle. Okay, what's close? Newcastle. All right. Okay. You can't say that because Gateshead and Newcastle are separated by the River Tyne.

So you can't say you were in Gateshead when you weren't in Gateshead. So different. So, okay, so help me understand this because it seems like there is a line. Yes. And also there's a lot, the line also means if you are Jordy or not. That's correct. Yes. So the line is, you know, Newcastle, you're Jordy.

And then there's Gateshead after the Rivertime. And then there's Sunderland. If you're in Sunderland, you're a Macom. A macum. You're called a Macom. Now, Gates is that gray area where I think most of the people in there would say that they're Jordy and they support Newcastle United, but it definitely infiltrates into Sunderland.

So what do you consider yourself? I consider myself a Jordy, definitely. Yeah, no, all my friends will be watching this. I'm definitely a Jordanie. Yeah, yeah, but I was never really not a massive football fan, and those terms came because of the football teams. Okay, all right, fair, fair. But what was Gateshead like?

How would you describe it growing up? I mean, Gates said was predominantly council estate, and so I got brought up on a council estate. My mum and dad managed to buy the house off the council, you know, back then. I think it was like 15, 20 grand or something. You know, we're talking like 1970s, 1980s. I don't know whether I've put like the blinkers on a lot of my childhood or not because I can't really articulate. what it was like for me. I know that, you know, I had two great parents.

They loved me and my brother David. And I had no problems at home, you know, the usual arguments. My mom and dad consequently broke up. But it wasn't a bad house. I didn't live in a house where there was addictions or alcoholism or abuse or anything like that. It was just normal. My dad and his family, you know, I'm really.

my mum, I suppose, you know, we didn't really talk about things, especially my dad's side of the family. He had a really tough upbringing. And I suppose he learned to when things were needed to be said or emotions to kind of dull that. And so we didn't really talk ever so much about our feelings and what was going on. My head was always in the land of fantasy. Interesting. So I was always imagining what my life. could or will look like. So what served me well, I think, growing up,

was that I had this absolute vision, like this tunnel vision of what I wanted out of life, and it was to be in a pop band. My first ever memory was watching Books Viz, making your mind up, where they whipped off the skirts, making your mind up. And they take the skirts off on Eurovision. I just held on to that, you know, car journeys.

I would just listen to music, you know, I'm a Walkman, and imagining I was in the music video, and, you know, I was going to have these, these amazing boyfriends, all of them were really old at the time, you know, a 10-year-old girl thinking that I'm going to be shaking Stephen's girlfriend was a bit weird. But to me, it never felt weird. Yes. Because I saw myself in that position. Yes.

Can I show you something? Yeah. Okay. I have lots of surprises for you, Michelle. Oh, wow. Oh, no. Oh, what? Yeah, lots of surprises. Okay.

This is a good one. This is a good one. Okay. It's good. You ready for it? Yes. Okay. I want you to tell me what is happening to this person in this moment. Oh, my gosh. Yes.

So who is this? Oh, wow. And what is happening to her in that moment? Okay. So she is 16, I believe, because I recognize that blazers in the sixth form. And I've just won Miss Haven and I think in the talent show. So that's Miss Haven, which is a bit. beauty competition and she is, she has a perm.

She's a perm. She has what looks like a perm and I have red hair. And I remember going in the school with the awards and it's a very different reaction at school at school. Like I wasn't popular. I wasn't popular. I had good friends that were in the unpopular group. kind of a drifter. Any boy I dated was in the year below or the year of all that.

So I dated younger boys because nobody in my year was interested. So it doesn't look at it, but I was a little bit big, you know, a little bit big. But back then at school, they used to weigh us in PE. And all the girls had to wear these tiny shorts. And we were lined up. And I remember looking at the mirrors and what felt like the greatest big room in the world. but it was probably a tiny little dance studio. I remember looking at all the girls' legs,

and mine was like the second to biggest, biggest. I was probably about two and a half so on heavy than what I am now. And I remember us all being weighed in front of each other. And that shame, like probably shame is a lot to do with my then problems with eating and binging going forward. But that pivotal moment of being weighed in front of people and having to wear the same outfit as other.

Like that's really stuck in me. And so I remember going to my mum and saying, I feel really fat. I'm fat. I look awful. I feel fat. And we weren't the kind of family really to sit around and have big meals with each other.

But my mum was a cook in the Navy. And so she would always make these big things. But I don't really remember us sitting around together. But there was always like shepherd's pie and everything, you know, massive big pies. A pie with everything. Yes. Pie with pie.

And so I remember saying to her that I really want to look good. I want to start this fresh new life at drama school and I really want to look good. And back then it was Weight Watchers. Yes. And it was massive and, you know, a shake, a shake and a tiny little bit of food. And I remember doing it for like eight weeks. And I did. You know, I lost the puppy flat and the weight.

And my mum and I did it together. And so I went to college and I felt like a new person and I repressed everything that had happened growing up in school. You know, they're not getting the boyfriends, being called Miss Piggy, nobody wanting to go out with me, being last picked for around us, like everything was last. And then I was the shiny new girl at drama school and yeah, I had the best time. So how do you get on to pop stars? Yeah. So I continuously auditioned for things throughout my late teens and early 20s. I was in numerous girl bands that didn't make it.

I was managed by the same management company as Cheryl Cole, Cheryl Tweedy back then. We performed together in Metroland. We were on a little stage and performed people at weekend. And so my journey before that had been like that anyway. I would work a Saturday and Sunday job, work as many hours as I could in the store, like Top Shop or Tushy. There was all of these old stores back then, Tamigel.

And then I would quit my job because I've got enough money now to jump on a train to go to London to audition at Pineapple or wherever, you know, dance attic. Oh, Panopal. Yeah. Dance attic, dance city, wherever the old school auditions still get held today. Okay.

And the reason that I knew auditions were on is because I bought the stage newspaper. So the steered newspaper was a bi-weekly paper, newspaper, that listed all the auditions and what was happening in the industry. I remember it said, do you want to be the next five or spice girls? I think it said, we're looking for mixed group. He's the open auditions. And I was like, right, right, I wouldn't need to save money for London. But actually, they came to Newcastle.

Ah, okay. So I went along to the audition. I had a song prepared. I was going to sing. Everything I do, I do it for you by Brian Adams. That was like my go-to. So in that moment, it didn't felt too weird. There was a lot of production around more than what I was used to.

Okay. But it wasn't anything different. Okay. So the thought of it being a big, massive TV show, hadn't been on our eyes on. Okay. Because it was the first one. Yes. We hadn't seen anything like this before.

That's true because there's no X factor at this time. Pop Stars was the first. television, what do you call it, show that creeds? Manufactured band. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And so for me, it was another audition.

And then you got through to the next round, and then you got given lyrics to sing. This shows everybody just sing, Reach for the Stars from Escliffe 7. What was different about this was that we were all singing in front of each other. Okay. I was used to closed auditions, whereas this was open.

Everybody was there, sat behind you, and people were cheering you along and there was so much talent in that room. I thought I had absolutely no chance and I wasn't a professional anything. I was a professional blagger. I still am. Like I always say fake it to you make it.

I think a lot of people are like that. They just don't want to admit it. And then there was a weekend in Birmingham where there was the final 50 and then London and then that was a week and then there was the final 10. Then the final 10. So now was the show

on air while you were going through? No. No. So it's pre-recorded. Yes. So it's all pre-recorded. And I had left my dancing gig at the nightclub to do this. And so about a week after they had their final 10, they come to our houses and tell us whether we're in or not. So obviously, I didn't get in. And it was six months before they aired the first episode. So we all signed a contract, obviously saying that, you know, we wouldn't talk about it. Okay. So I couldn't say anything to anybody. And back then, you know, now I signed it and DM, I might tell a few of you all.

But obviously I was like, I was scared. Like, I was scared about saying the wrong thing. So I didn't say anything to anybody. And I had to beg for my job back. And they didn't want to give me my job back. And I was begging because I was like, that was it. Yes. Like there was no money, you know.

Yeah. That, there was six or five, six months of auditioning. just ended and then I'm back to square one. Yes. And I had no job, you know, no career. I was almost 21 and those were like back in those days, the cut off age at which they wanted people to audition. Okay.

So I knew it was kind of like the end and it was never the same when I got my job back. It was, they didn't treat me, they did not treat me right and I can say that now. They, it was different. There was a lot of ego at that place. at work and there was a lot going on behind the scenes that should never have happened. Security guards taking their position, you know, of authority to places with us girls that they should never have. Pop stars was shown on TV and so every Saturday night, which was our busiest night, it had

just been on TV at 7, 7.30 and obviously I'm on it. Can't say what I did, can't say how far. far I went or whatever like that and I'm at work and so there would be a lot of attention and positive attention from boys because they've just seen me on TV and it would get more and more each week as the series went on there was obviously IPI'd more and negative attention from girls and girls are nasty girls are really nasty and so I had that battle every night as well and so at that point there was a lot of um I'd say what I'd say what? wanted and unwanted attention, it felt good to be recognized for something other than just

been dressed in a bikini. I see. Forgetting I was dressed in a bikini. There was this one time. We all had security men just in case people in the crowd got feisty with us because we were wearing bikinis and I got 50 quid tip and the security guy turns around and said to me, you're half met with me and I thought he was joking and I kind of laughed at off. and then when we close the nightclub

we have to go up we have to count our tips and our money because it was all cash based and he got me up against the wall and he said I meant it I want a 25 quid now

and I was at the there was people around people saw it turned a blind eye didn't say anything and I remember just giving them the 50 quid and I had no

option but to show up to work the next day like I had to go back I don't remember what happened to him I obviously complained and the fact that was going out with the DJ he may have said something to the manager but everybody was so close

and pally because the other things were happening that I just cracked on and you know there was a lot that went on back then not just with the men who worked there with the girls yeah it was a lot

it was nasty yeah yeah how did that period then change you? I settled. I got engaged to the DJ. I wasn't really in love. I said yes because I felt important

because he was important at work. And so I felt accepted. I felt important myself because I was with him. Oh my God, I've got the DJ. You know, I've got the main man. And so had others. You know, there was a lot of other women who had the main man. I didn't know at the time. All the while, you are appearing on the show and you're getting closer and closer to the

finals. That's right. So then on the show then, on pop stars, you get to the final 10. And I find this very interesting because I've talked to Mylene class. She was in the the final 10, right? And I understand what happens with her group. But tell me about what happens to you and the forming of Liberty X, because I find this to be really interesting. I'm sure Kel is going to tell me I've got it wrong, because I think I have got it. It's slightly wrong. I live in a bit of a bubble as well, Paul, so I kind of imagine things. Things differently. Okay. So how do you remember it? So I remember it as we all stayed in touch the other five because the five and hearsay

blocked us. Oh really? But even before that. But they were probably told that. But at the time we were saw. But even before that though, because I wasn't here during that time. So I've only seen clips. So then the five that are then selected in when that group becomes hearsay. Yes. I would imagine they had a contract immediately. And they become quite popular.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, huge. You know, there was about six months between me being told I wasn't in and when the first one was aired. And in that six months, I believe, obviously, Miley would have had a better account of it. That's when they went somewhere. They got their sit together. They learned dance routines. They recorded music. They did the whole PR thing.

You know, changed their four numbers, which I knew who was in it as well because I tried to ring them straight after. Nassie Nigel said I wasn't in. and obviously they weren't picking up because their phones were gone. So this is where you think that they were told the block. Oh, absolutely. 100%. But why? I know that was a different time period, but why?

I think it was just all to do with exclusivity and privacy and, you know, NDAs flying around and the fact that they, I don't know. I don't want to put words in their mouths. They can answer that. I don't know if they were told to, you know, block everybody, but we were. And so I believe, or I like to believe that wasn't from them. Right. It was from, you know, the voices above.

Management, whatever. Because we all got on really well. And I wanted to ring Suzanne and, you know, and see how she got on and say, oh, my God, well done. And we didn't get that opportunity to do that, you know. And so I would imagine that wasn't on them. Okay. Fair, fair. So then you are thinking about what your life is now going to be.

What's it going to look like? So how does Liberty X come about? You know, we all stayed in touch. And then the time came around where ITV wanted us to come and do a bit of press for the show as the Five Losers. We weren't called the Five Losers by ITV, but we subsequently were called that henceforward. And I remember us, my memory of it is that we got together the night before we were due to do Good Morning Britain on one of those shows, Lorraine. And we were at Kelly's apartment

and Tony had arranged an Irish phone interview for radio and I remember we all started They asked us to sing So we all sang Bridge Under Troubled Water Which was the song in which we sang at the auditions. They were like, you guys should be a band. This is my fluffy memory of it.

And so we were like, yeah, why? Why not? And so the next year when we're live on TV and we sang that again, we said we want to be a band. We're going to be a band. We didn't really know what that looked like. We was like, why not? We weren't signed to ICV or pop stars.

They never retained us. Okay. They let us go. That was like that is basically the main reason why all of these participants in these shows henceforward are contracted to it into their life going forward because they missed it with us. Interesting. They let us go. So you're saying specifically because they missed your group.

They missed an opportunity to micromanage and take commission from anybody else from that process or from that specific process. So Liberty X set a precedent now and therefore everyone gets signed. Yeah, because we were, you know, told throughout the whole process until that moment that the losers couldn't do anything. It was just the winners. It was just those five people. It was not us.

We were done and that was it. And so when we announced that we wanted to start as a band, it was news to them. And my fluffy kind of rainbow covered memory is that when we announced it, Richard Branson was watching the TV. show we were on. I believe it was Lorraine, but Kelly said it was another one. And he rang Lorraine or got in touch with her somehow and said that he wanted, he loved the idea of an underdog and he owned Virgin Records, V2 Records, and would love to sign us and, and that was that day. Oh, wow. And so I never left London. We, you know, over the course of the next few weeks,

Lorraine also, the lovely Lorraine, who's been with my personal journey throughout my whole time, she puts in contact with a manager, which Gary, who subsequently became Liberty X's manager that day as well. Okay. And we got management in the next few weeks who then helped financially relocate us to London until we started getting money from our advances. Yes. And we signed a, you know, a major record. label. That's incredible. And was that Richard Branson? Like over the course of just maybe a few weeks. Yeah, that's incredible. Like all of this happens. And I'm like, this is mental. Like we all thought

this is absolutely insane. Like we are literally in Richard Branson's house. We are at his record label and we're doing a press conference and he held me upside down and Jessica, he poured champagne over her head all in this unrealistic distorted reality we are living right then and it was mega yeah yeah that's incredible

I don't know about the pouring the champagne over the head but yeah yeah yeah no it all sounds I mean what also is surreal yeah you can't make it up and also those stories don't happen it feels like it doesn't happen anymore

it just doesn't happen just you're on TV he sees you he's like hey I'm going to sign you to a deal. Okay. Yeah, okay. And he said, you never left London. No, pretty much.

I mean, I remember going back and grabbing myself, and at this point, I'm still engaged to the DJ, which was a whole, whole different thing. Excuse me. Which didn't last, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. So now, I want to ask you about this, is that I know that who was it that called you all the flop stars? Because that seemed like that was a. title that stuck.

Yeah. From my memory, I believe it was hearsay. But I think it was fueled by press. Okay. So ultimately, press were the ones who labeled us the names. I see. And almost pinned you two against each other. Absolutely.

So there was a war from the get-go. As soon as we released up, we were going to be a band and start to release music. we were constantly battled against each other in a world that we were trying to navigate. You know, we didn't have, there were six months prior like years they had to adapt to what was coming and a team around them. You know, we were signed to an indie label effectively. And, you know, we weren't groomed. We, you know, we didn't have that team. And so we felt like we were almost set out to the lions.

You know, we didn't have media training. Interesting. It was just, I think what the attraction was for the, liberty at, towards liberty, we were only liberty at the time, was that we were raw. And that was quite evident because we didn't know when to stop talking or what or what not to say. And we were on the fact that we were able to, we were able to bring our creative energy to what we put out there, which was, which usually doesn't happen, well, doesn't happen to manufacture bands, actually. But the press battles us and hearsay off from the get-go,

flop stars, wannabies, the five losers and it was evident that they wanted us to fail. Not just HSA as a team, but the people around them. And so that would have then stirred up the pot with the HSA members in order to, you know, add fuel to the fire when they did interviews about how they were bigger and better and we were not so.

And that we were running on their court tails. Yeah. How did you feel? Because you were, these were your, friends you know a few months prior when you were filming it felt it felt really harsh we didn't know how to navigate it it felt like it wasn't the five people that we met in the audition process and and and along all of this all I kind of wanted to do was reach out to Suzanne yeah because that's like one of

the people that I got really close to and and be like how is it like what's it like Yes. Like, I bet it's amazing. Like, I really wanted to share that with her. And at no point did I see what we were doing is hanging on their cocktails. And I have to say, like, my skin's not, I say it's thick. It was really paper thin. If it wasn't for the rest of the Liberty X members, I don't think I would have got through it as well as that I did.

But we had each other. And that's what made our strength, I think, as a band. Well, could you take me through some of the highs and lows? You know, if you think about the most surreal moment, you know, being in a pop band. Yeah. Especially this is in the 2000s. Yeah. Where there's big, you know, video budgets and it was a different era.

It was just so different and so much fun. Yes. Like, yeah, there was dark times and, you know, I was struggling behind the scenes with my hearts and and just other stuff. And alcohol was present then, but I wouldn't have called myself an alcoholic back then. It was just so much fun. Oh God, there were so many times,

like we were in South East Asia and we were attending the MTV Asia Awards and we were given an awards and Raya Kerry's there and blues there, Pussy Cat Dolls before they kind of reduced their size. Yes. You have black IPs. Sugar Babes, Gareth was there, and there was just loads of people.

And we were all staying in the same hotel. And we are particular rooms overlooked this big pool. So we had a massive pool party at night of the awards. And we, like, you've got black IPs here. You've got a pussycat to Aussie and everyone's neck and arm. Oh, my gosh. I mean, I'm not going to say names. I mean, yeah.

That's a while. Hold on. Now you know I have to go there. No, we can't. Don't say names. No, we can't. Don't say names, but let me ask this, though. There are people in that pool that I will never tell.

Never. In the pool. That never came out. Oh, my God. And you know, there were no camera. That's exactly what I was about to say. It never came out because we weren't overrun by social media back then. And that's why it was fun.

Like, I'm not saying what we were doing was rice. Right. Or, you know, it was just. It was just never captured. What happened? And the fun that we had didn't go out because there wasn't people taking pictures of it or discussing it online

or it becoming something that it isn't. Like, you know, it wasn't an orgy. It was just fun times. Right. But also, too, is in those moments, what about, you know, like managers and assistance and other people? Or do you feel like because we didn't have social media

at that time, that even if someone saw something, it doesn't spread. Yeah, that's it. It was quite a close-knit community. Everybody knew each other. It was when pop was great. We did everything together. The radio shows, there was CDK, SMTV, top of the pomp, like, and kicking.

I mean, all of these outlets of where you showcased your music and you got to hang out with all the same guys. Like the last show of SMTV was where Katz and... And Cat and Deck got married and it was on chums. And so it was a theory best thing. And they got married. And Mariah Carey's their bridesmaid. Goodness.

And you've got hearsay on one side. And you've got Liberty X and the other. And you've got blue. And we're part of this, this wedding conglination. And we are just in that moment. And then it ended. And then SM TV ended, chums finished. We've got, you know, Top the Pops was coming to the,

end of an era and all these shows kind of like just stopped and dropped out and then it wasn't fun anymore um you know a lot of how we promoted on music was taken away there was downloading happening you know you didn't have to go into radio stations anymore and that was half the fun a radio tour and so the shift in the music industry ultimately i think ended our career as as as as as an artist Yes, yes. Navigating that transition in, you know, the mid to late naughties was difficult. Record companies were folding, you know, V2 was sold. We went to another independent label and that didn't happen.

And so it was like a vulnerable time in that moment. And then, you know, when Liberty X ended, it just stopped. Like, we just, we were just together one day in, the dressing room after a gig and a couple of us had been drinking and it was messy. It wasn't one of our finest performances and we had become lazy and, you know, a couple of us wanted to start a family and to get married and we were all just tired of each other's bullshit. I know a few people were tired of our bullshit and it was vocalised just the five of us and then we stopped. I think We had one or two last gigs to do, and we fulfilled it with our commitments and just walked away from each other.

And that was it. There was no big dramatic press conference and there was no big announcement. It just we just thought nobody cared about us that much. So, why? Really? Yeah. Yeah, we're quite good at playing ourselves down and, oh, well, nobody's going to give a shit anyway, you know. But do you think they did at that time?

Looking back, yeah. Yeah. Looking back, I knowing what our music meant for people. And, you know, me and the two girls have been able to go out for the last nine years and perform as a three and still bring that music that we recorded all those years ago to our generation and a new generation shows me now of how important it was to those kids growing up. And we just thought nobody give a shit because our last song didn't do so well and then we were dropped and then, you know, our performances became sloppy and we just thought,

well, that's it. That's it. Yeah. That's it. You know, one thing about Liberty X, and I say Liberty X because it was, you were Liberty and then was it some other group had Liberty or I don't know. Some man group got a bit sore. The subject who wanted that, wanted to,

their name back, so they were Liberty, so I'm sure they've used it well. And so, yeah, they took us to court, you know. And then you become Liberty X. That's right. Now, I think what, and I don't want to even stir up more issues between you and hearsay. Oh, no. But I can see Mylene's picture in my eye line right here. Because we love hearsay here, right?

But one thing I didn't realize was how successful Liberty X. was, right? So Liberty X, you have now, so achieved international success. So the album featuring just a little, right, that single was the ninth best-selling single in 2002. Yeah. Right. That's major. Yeah. Also, the group, you had 10 consecutive UK top 20 singles. So is, is it, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is Is that, or should I say, am I correct in saying that Liberty X sold more than hearsay? Yeah, that would be correct. Yep. Yeah, we did.

We had three albums and we had a big, massive sellout tour. We won a Brit Awards for our song and for two album awards. And we won an Ivan Lavella award. And so, yes. So putting it, frankly, yeah, ultimately, Liberty X were more successful than hearsay. I have another surprise for you. What? You ready for this?

Oh, God, I don't know. I don't know. Is this another picture? This one is coming from this side. Okay, oh, no. You have to close your eyes on this one. Okay. Okay, you trust me.

Trust me. Close your eyes. Okay. And when you open it, I would like you to read this. You can open. Okay. And get an upset already. This is beautiful.

Do you want me to read it out? Please. Okay. I haven't got my glasses. Okay. Dear Michelle, who would have... I can't even read it. It's only got the word pop stars on it.

Okay, dear Michelle, who would have known when we first met at the Pop Stars Edition in 2000 that would still be pop stars in a band together all these years later? We've shared so many amazing memories together. making music, touring the world and write and winning awards. But some of the best things are the little things that we've shared. The normal stuff, like the gossiping in the car and the nights out in the time, or maybe not so normal, actually.

We've been through marriages, divorces, births, deaths, illnesses, and all that life throws at you together. And the fact that we still have a great working relationship to is nothing short of unbelievable. We've been so proud to what you are. in recovery. Over the last five years, you've conquered some situations that most couldn't handle,

and that's a testament to the strong woman that you are. You've built an amazing life with Hugh Faith and AJ. We love them too, and feel blessed to be part of your life story. He's to excite in times ahead. As bandmates and friends, we love you, Jess and Cal. What are those girls mean to you? I mean, been to do so much together.

And nobody knows stuff about me. Then those girls do, you know, even like my husband, you know, my best friends, the stuff that we've gone through only us can understand. I'm working on a great initiative with ID Mobile and Mental Health UK. Science tells us that hearing a voice over a call can lower our stress, boost our mood and even help us to rebuild connection. to rebuild connections. So they're asking you to ditch the text

and make it a call instead. I'm going to admit something to you. I'm a chronic texter. I'm the worst person in the world to front this. You're not going to listen to me. Why would you? But you might listen to someone you know. So I had an idea.

Flo with me on this. For the next few weeks, instead of ads with me in them, I'm giving up this seat right here to those people who've been waiting for you. for you to phone them. And for the next few episodes, you'll be hearing from them instead of me. So these folks will have just one ask.

Ditch the text and make it a call. Hello? I've got to take this. I know that you have had a, should I say, tumultuous relationship with the press over the course of your career. If you could just almost give us

the highlight reel of your up and down relationship with the press, because there are moments that I've read where it was just, it was hideous what was done to you in the press. Yeah. There's always a member of a band that the press honing on. You know, you had, I suppose you had Jerry with the Spice Girls and you had Rachel from S Club.

And you had Kerry from Atomic Hitton. Yes. And you had Lee from Blue. Yes. And you had me from Liberty X. and we were in the category of the fun one or the pissed one. And so that would be, you know, in my situation, the lack of confidence I have in my ability and my talent. And it wasn't necessarily the bandmates making me feel like that, but I felt like that.

Okay. And it was evident with producers and, and people who we were writing with and recording with that I was ultimately the bottom of the pile when it came to singing and that I'm not good for that. So I had to find a place. So finding an area of which I was good at, which was going out and getting drunk,

or getting boyfriends, was a place I felt comfortable in because I felt uncomfortable with my talent. This is interesting. So are you saying that you were aware that this was the brand that you were known for and you played it up? Yeah. Yeah. And willingly so.

Okay. Because I loved doing, you know, acting the way I was like, I was young. I was single at the time. I had relationships with boys, famous men, boys that were on my wall growing up. Wow. Like, I was Like, I mean, I say this a lot

And I hate saying it all the time But like Gary Lucy, for example Gary Lucy Gary Lucy Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I know Gary Did you date Gary? Yeah, well, so Gary picked me up in a nightclub Gary did

And, um, oh my goodness We were in a nightclub and I was like, oh my God, it's Gary Lucy And it was Gary Lucy And I said to Kelly and Jess Oh God, it's Gary Lucy And I was like freaking out Like he's like my top three.

Yeah. At that moment's time. Yeah, yeah. Because he was in, it was a show that he was doing like the footballer. Yeah, football's wives and Hollyoaks. And it was just like, oh my God. Anyway, he made Beeline for me. So I'm like, yeah, okay.

And we had a few dates. Okay. And it didn't get too serious, but we had fun. And it just didn't work out. Can we talk about Andy? Yeah. as much as you want to talk about Andy but the

I'm sure Andy you watch this saying no don't talk about Andy yeah right now he's saying say no yeah I haven't spoke to Andy since we divorced apart from maybe one once

because from what from what I know about your relationship with Andy is that it was quick quick marriage a year and a half almost 19 months so very quick marriage

tumultuous accusations he said she said and then a cheating allegation so on the cheating allegation can you clarify from your position what happened

okay wow no one's asked me that direct oh god I mean okay that's why we need to talk Michelle we need to talk yeah okay okay you're right in saying that

the relationship was tumultuous it was always there had been cheating and allegations throughout on both parts some true, some not some not true and that was kind of we both knew, didn't know we just also wanted to be together

it wasn't real love in that aspect but we thought it was, you know, well I did anyway I thought it was real love but the cheating happened when I was on a holiday in Marbea Okay. My cheating. Not the cheating.

My cheating happened when I was in Marbea. And I was out there on holiday with Bianca Gascoyne, Nikki Graham, Daniel Lloyd, you know, the crew that you remember back then in like the early naughtyies that all went out, you know. There was the big brother lots and Callum Best. And we were all there for an opening of. of, I think it was the Ocean Club. Oh my gosh.

Wayne Liddickers? Well, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was obviously drunk and I snogged somebody on the dance floor in front of the world press. Like, I mean, I couldn't have made it any more obvious. And we left together. we didn't go home together we left together

and so I freaked out did you I had a freak out like like a roll coming down I think that's the easiest way to describe it I was absolutely freaking out and of course

you know by the time I got home Andy knew something somebody from that party told him that I would see none and stunging this particular person and

and then I told him we tried to work through it but didn't try and then I think there was maybe about a couple of months I can't remember a few months

where we just weren't there you know and then when we when we broke up I broke up with Andy and I left and I moved in with a friend

that I had made an island and Andy's a great guy like I don't want to say anything bad about him because like I loved him can I ask a question on this so cheating

infidelity comes up quite a bit in the conversations that we have here on the podcast and I think that there's a debate around whether or not you can love your partner and cheat on them. Right. How do you answer that? Wow.

Well, I would, it's a tough one. Like, my husband now would say, absolutely not, that's it. And I would now say absolutely not, that's it, right? But I did do that. because I honest like I don't know how I know how I've heard how and it describes our marriage and that's not what I thought it was and I thought it was real the love the love yeah and so that thing that happened in Marbea was by no means a reflection of me wanting that particular person I acted out.

Okay. And it was situational. It was situational. I acted out. I shouldn't have done it. I was drunk. I was, you know, God,

it's funny what alcohol puts you in all these positions that you wouldn't do if you weren't drunk. It was just messy. And I don't really want to go into too much because it implicates his family as well. And consequently since then, like I really have a lot of respect for his sister, Lisa. We've remained in contact. Yeah, so how about this? Let's not go into the messy piece, but how about having had that relationship? What did you learn about yourself that you then took into this next relationship, which is your marriage now?

I suppose what real love is. You know, I thought I was in love maybe four times before, Andy. Okay. Like I had a real love at school. and then and then and then and then and then and then I met somebody towards the end of that relationship I'd be I'd be quite needy and and that never serves anybody well in this industry when there's a load of people who just want to have fun and move on yes hello my name is Daniel and I have taken this lovely seat bequeathed by Paul to tell my wife Lydia love my life fire my veins to call me

Welcome to ID Mobile. Please need your message after the tone. I don't care if it's you at home asking me where the remote is. I don't care whether you're on your way back from work and you're literally calling to tell me that. I just prefer a call. It lets me know that you love me. Listen, Paul himself, relationship guru,

they call him Uguwe of relationships. He just said that phone calls will boost all the chemicals we need for extra loving, okay? If you remember, basically our whole relationship was built on phone calls. We started dating when you went to uni, and so we long distance for three years. We probably fell asleep on the phone together four nights out of a week, which was incredible and really formed our relationship. So I'm just trying to bring a little bit of that love and spontaneity back. Let me paint you a picture of the kind of call that I'm hoping that I get.

Hey, boo. How are you? Just a quick one. Do we have cheese? We've got cheese? Great. Thank you. I'll be home in two minutes.

Even that. Ooh, that would get me. It would just be nice. That would just be amazing. And it's 10 seconds. What do you think? Tell me if I'm wrong. But you were not necessarily saying that there are words that you want to hear, but it's how you want to hear them.

100%. You know what's so interesting, though, is I think you're married to me. because I'm like, Jill, where's the remote? Yeah. You know, yeah, I'm super, super, super texter. And you know, all the research supports what you're saying. You know, I'm just, I have a thick head.

And so I was like, Lydia does too. So Lydia, she should just call you. I'd love that. And, you know, you've inspired me. I'm going to call Jill at least once. today. Oh, listen. I'm gonna call her.

Yeah, I'm gonna call it. You know what? I should call it right now. And of course, we're in partnership with ID Mobile and Mental Health, UK. We want you to ditch the text and make it a call. Hey there. I just want to share a content warning. This episode includes discussion of addiction and eating disorders.

If you or someone you know need support, we've included resources in the show notes. Please take care while watching. Michelle, could you, as much as you'd like to walk us through your addiction, in college is when you tried, do you try drugs for the first time in college? Their speed, yeah. Could you talk about your first time trying speed? I remember we were, I think we were watching a play from the older year. And drum and bass was really big back then. Yes.

and my friends had some and so I tried it. And wow, like that when people say I've arrived, right? People use that term a lot. I don't really like that term because like later on in life with, you know, drugs or alcoholic, I didn't feel like I arrived anywhere. Yes. But that moment, that's the closest place I can be to tell you I felt like I arrived. You know, my heart was pounding.

I felt awake. I could do, like, study and have fun at the same time. And that was kind of course throughout my life at college, along with a big battle with binge eating. Okay. Which I continued throughout my whole life. Okay. But speed was the first thing that I kind of noted didn't make me hungry. Interesting.

Just to clarify for everyone knows, it's a street term, right? But it's an amphetamine, as you said, that accelerates the central nervous system. to increase energy, focus, and alertness, while also suppressing not just appetite, but it also suppresses your sleep. Yeah, of course it does. Yeah, yeah. Interesting.

Do you feel like you move very quickly from casual use to regular use of speed? I would substitute one for another. So I suppose after college, speed wasn't something that I went and picked up. but I didn't call it in or, you know, it was there from friends, was then ephidrine. Ephragerine? Yeah.

Tell me about the effigrine. So, effigrin is a, it's kind of like a speed, Xanphetamine. Okay. And it was in a pill called Exandarin. And Exandarin is a weight loss drug. Now, I'm pretty certain it's banned now because it contained ephodrine. So from speed, I wanted to keep the weight off. And so I had a bit of research and then at like a local gym, one of those that had, you know, the back, the back door said, what about these? You could only get them from America and I tried them and it gave me the same effect that we did. But because it was legal, I was like, okay, great. It's giving me this, this buzz, this feeling. It's not making me want to eat. And so that was my next thing. And then they got banned.

Interesting. What year or how old were you? Oh, maybe 1920, maybe about then. Okay. Pre-pop stars. Okay. And I was 20, 21 pop stars. And then they got banned. But then on this back corner of the gym, they sold pure effigone tablets.

And so I then switched to effigone, which was a purer form of what was in the Exanderine. And I abused them for many years. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. For a long time, maybe about five years. And I remember I stopped because I got rushed to hospital one day. And my heart had stopped.

I felt my heart stopped and it was going erratic. and there was lots of palpitations and this was like this was a couple years after Liberty X started and I was with my ex-husband, Andy, at the time and I got rushed to hospital and they found corpies amounts of caffeine in my blood and traces of, well, they told me it was traces of cocaine

but I had never done cocaine actually at this point in life but that's what's down on my doctor's report And so I was like, I don't get it. And obviously they were asking, have I done anything? And I was like, no, I haven't done anything. Because I didn't do Coke. Sure. I haven't done anything.

Not thinking about these pills that I was taking. Right. So they were obviously laced with that. And I know it sounds like a cop out, but I'll tell you all, like I did cocaine later on in life. That's why I went to rehab. Like this wasn't that time. This was a moment where I was taking these pills that I was buying from a gym. And that happened.

And I stopped. Interesting. But those pills were laced with cocaine. That's all I've took. Yeah. That's what I was taking to stop me from eating. And that was, Michelle, so that was five years. Yeah.

So that means I didn't realize. So you were then taking pills through pop stars. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay. I didn't know that. But you were not drinking.

I mean, I was drinking, but it wasn't, it wasn't at all my crux. It wasn't your crux. No. So how did you move to alcohol? Alcohol was always present, definitely, and I loved going out. And I always, it's really weird, like, I love to hang over. Oh, my God, because I knew that it was a day of binge. So my addictions and my obsessiveness with food.

Okay. became so intertwined that I had like this thing going on whereby I would start a new diet every Monday or new diet pills or whatever it might be, the cabbage soup diet, you know, the one-to-one diet or whatever it was, whatever it was, every single week. And by Wednesday I'd failed. I would binge eat and then I would go and get drunk and I'd go out and then I'd binge eat on and then I'd start again and my weight was creeping up instead of getting getting less than. Okay.

And this was early in Liberty X as well where I was starting to have that pattern of binge eating. And it gave me comfort. And I was outed by my manager at the Liberty X video shoot for just a little or biggest video. Yes. and he said, you've put on a bit of weight. And I had, granted, and I knew I felt uncomfortable. And I was the only one of the three girls in that shoot to wear a dress because I couldn't fit into the cat suit.

And so I knew my worth. I knew I just needed to be hidden. I felt like that's what they were trying to do to hide me. I'm sure they weren't. but I felt that. You know, I felt like they just wanted to hide me in this big oversized dress. But in reality, you know, there was the only thing I fit in at that time. And he said that to me.

My manager said that to me the first night or the first day that you put on weight. People are starting to talk. Maybe you want to think about getting healthy or lose weight. and what that does for any addict is you do more of so I went back home and I ordered three pizzas and I binge ate did you that day? Yeah. So the day of the video shoot?

Yeah. And I had another day the next day and I knew I would feel swollen. I just couldn't stop. I could not stop eating. Wow. And I have absolutely no filter when it comes to food. I still have that today. So the binge eating and, you know, the day of the day of,

the treat day, I will go physically all in. And it's hard to talk about it because when people look at myself, like I know I'm not fat. And I've worked really hard on myself to be really happy and comfortable with my body. I love going to the gym. I love eating healthy. We don't drink anymore, obviously. But I still have that on and off switch.

So that obsession over something. that makes me feel good for that split second is still there. You know, I haven't got it with alcohol and jugs anymore, but I have it with food. And with food, it's very difficult to switch off because it's something you have to eat, you have to eat to live. Yes. And so working through that is ever so difficult because I have triggers and the triggers could be a piece of cake, one piece of chocolate bar.

It could be another excuse, like my addictions. with alcohol and drugs, a party and event, the cinema. You know, all of these things were triggers for me to either call it in or get more alcohol. And so now I have the same application to food. Okay. But then at that point, especially during that video sheet, you then binged on three pizzas. Yeah. Then do you consume alcohol or no?

Not at that point, no. Okay. No. So it's the binging of the food. of the food. And then you show up the next day. Mm-hmm. And I actually go back on, um, on ephogen after that.

Interesting. So you're back on the pills? Yeah, back on the pills. Okay. And they're harder to source and obviously because they're banned. Um, but I didn't feel like I was doing anything illegal because it's found in diet pills. where you can still pick up in America. Yeah, but it's illegal here.

But it's legal here. And you're a celebrity now. Yes. So as a celebrity, when you are requiring illegal drugs, where do you get them from? I mean, the ephidrine was quite easy to find from gyms. So still, but you're known and then there's pop-a-see. Oh, I wouldn't get it myself, yeah.

Okay. I know, I know. Like friends of friends and whatever. But I was so unhappy with how I had stopped. This is the insanity of it, right? I stopped because I have a heart problem, which I have today. I actually just had a small operation last week. I see scoring.

Yeah, and this is fresh. So this is something that I had last week, which I don't make a big song and dance about it, but I just showed it scars. I don't know where my thinking is in that. And then I put out all this way, freaks me the fuck out and I'm being told to lose weight and I don't know how to lose weight properly.

I need to lose it fast and the only way I know how to use it is with, is with drugs. Okay. Okay. Is this when you start using cocaine as well? Cocaine was part of my story later on in life. Paul. It was around back then. It had been offered.

I think I might have took it a few times, but it wasn't something. I was petrified of, you know, after all of this, I'm petrified of drugs. I'm worried that if I took that, so I've never done a pill, right? I always worry that I'm that one person that gets that pill and I die from one pill.

So harm me a pill, absolutely not, but I would take effigant. And it's just that's the insanity of addictions. Yes. How you can validate and have excessive. left in silver one drug or alcohol, which is a drug. And oh my God, I'd never touch that.

And then a lot of the time those nevars creep up on you because you're not getting the same how you are from alcohol. Okay. And then that's when cocaine became involved. So it went from ephrogen to then alcohol. Yeah. And the alcohol you were using to basically numb yourself to go on stage, was it? It wasn't so much to know myself to go on stage.

I just didn't know myself without alcohol. So I, you know, like, I was fun and I was energetic. And at this point, I looked good and getting some good press. And like, it's in a good place. And so when I, when I'm in that place, I'm like, well, if it's not broke, don't fix it. And at this point, I had no issues with putting down alcohol. I wasn't dependent on alcohol. There was no addiction with alcohol.

Okay. And I say that because I know the difference now. I was a big drinker. You know, I couldn't perform without a drink. Other than, obviously, five years ago, up to five years ago, I don't remember ever doing a gig sober. A big social drinker.

But I never went home and drank by myself. And I didn't hide it. manipulate for it and do all these things that I then went onto in later life. Coquine came around when I had my children and became friendly with a community of wealthier housewives in my area. Okay. And so it wasn't to do the music industry. And at that moment in time, I had a total hysterectomy at a very young age.

And I lost whatever I had built up for myself throughout the years. I lost all my identity, everything I thought I knew by myself. I had no idea who I was. How old were you as well? You were in mid-30s, weren't you? 33. 33, early, early 30. Yeah.

Yeah. You have a hysterectomy and then you immediately go into menopause. Immediately. What is, what is that like? What were the, almost when you reflect back, what was happening for you? Mm-hmm. And how did it feel? You know, when I woke up, it's not like you have this severe reaction to not having hormones in your body.

Like, I wasn't instantly different. It was over a period of time that I think my husband would have recognised way sooner than myself where I wasn't myself. I lost my essence, my craziness, my get up and go, my libido. I couldn't talk to my friends about it, not because they didn't want me to, but because I told myself they wouldn't want to. I don't want to talk to my husband about it because I didn't want to feel like I was unsex. And I was, I think the easiest way of saying is that I was just, I was numb for quite a while.

And I just didn't want to get out of bed. I just didn't want to do anything. So whilst I wasn't clinically diagnosed with depression, that's the easiest way I can describe it is that before I had testosterone, I felt in a mode of depression. Yes. And I couldn't get out of it. And so that definitely had an impact and still does. to this day. I was really scared.

And I was really sad. And I didn't like myself anymore. What were you scared of, Michelle? Just how I felt about myself, how other people saw me, how unrelatable I was now. You know, especially to my peers and my friends, the unrelatability stems down to the fact

that all I had in my mind was menopause and how I felt. And so when you're bringing that to a night out with your girlfriends, it's not exactly a hot topic. And I got my kick from drinking alcohol. Okay. And I see it. I got it. I really got it. Like I was licked.

I was, it was pre-COVID. So I was definitely gone before then. Although COVID definitely. I definitely exasperated the situation and my relationship with alcohol and drugs. And then I found that alcohol wasn't really doing for me what I wanted it to do anymore because I was drinking more of it. And... How much alcohol were you consuming? It wasn't yet at the point where I woke up and had to drink.

But I'd say a good couple of bottles a day of wine. A few bottles of... A couple of bottles of wine. Per day, wow. Yeah. Okay. If you wanted to kind of like roughly estimate it, you know, sometimes it would just be spirits and... But it wasn't coloured with cocaine at that point.

And I say coloured. It was... It started to colour it because it was around in the area where I lives. And there were other women doing... what I was doing, not working. Husband was out all day. You know, you either got drunk and took coke or you had a fair with a tennis coach at the gym.

You know who you are. And that was life, living in the area at that point, or what I thought was life. I thought there was no other option. And I liked drinking and I didn't want to give it up. And I liked the way that cocaine made me feel. it gave me that I've arrived at each moment that I had it right back in my late teens that I got from speed. From speed, yes, yes.

Yeah, that alcohol wasn't given me. And so you were addicted to alcohol and cocaine at the same time. It was, it was, yeah, fundamentally it was. And I think like the last two years, two to three years of my drinking was my drinking and using combined. Okay. But I never saw it. I could, towards the end, I could see I have a problem with alcohol. I knew I couldn't stop when I tried.

I knew I was dying. I was in hospital. I knew what the doctors were telling me. People were saying it. He tried to get me to rehab two years pre years. Like, I didn't understand fully what an alcoholic was. I didn't have any idea. Like, I thought it was the only person that behaved like this.

Nobody would understand. That's why I hid it. Alcohol was fundamentally killing me. But not Coke, because nobody knew. So no one knew about the Coke. It was only your friends. Yeah. And they didn't know, like, really the extent.

Nobody knew the extent of my drinking. and, you know, and the pockets where I could get my cocaine from. Yes. And this part intrigues me because you are at this time, you are, I mean, you're happily married. Yeah. You have two children that you're raising. Yeah. You have a career now.

Yeah. Because you're working, you're gigging. Yeah. We're gigging off the back of the big reunion. Three girls go out. We do a tour in Australia. And yeah, we're gigging. We're working.

You're gigging. Life's good. Life's good. You are a public figure. Yeah. Looking from the outside in, you have it all. Yeah. Yeah, looking from the outside in, yeah.

And that's how I look at other people's lives, right? It's easy to look at other people's lives like that when yours is crumbling down. And nobody can see that. No. You know? No. But what was actually happening is it was all crumbling for you. Yeah.

And I didn't realize how low it actually got for you. Yeah. And so you were, so how do you manage that all? Like how do you consume that much alcohol, acquire the drugs, do the gigs, be the mom, be the wife, like, be the, be the, friend how do you do it all? I was doing it all. I don't know. I was doing it all, you know, with the with the cocaine thing. It's like I only I only did coke when somebody else was doing it too. And so that's why I thought I didn't have a problem. Okay. So in my head,

because I wasn't using it secretly, I was drinking secretly and manipulative. manipulating secretly, but because I wasn't so much hiding it, like it was, certain people knew I was doing cocaine. It wasn't an addiction in my head. I didn't see it like that because it kept, because, because I could almost handle being an alcoholic, even though I couldn't say the word, but certainly wasn't a drug addicts, you know, you know, you have this visual of what a drug addict looks like. And these women, you know, a couple of women that were not like that was doing it recreationally kind of meant that, oh, it's okay then.

Because they're not like that. So we're not addicts. So we don't have a problem. And society accepts that. Did Hugh, your husband, know about the cocaine? No. No, but yes, no. he didn't but he did

I don't think he wanted to admit him to himself you know I am oh it must be so awful for him because he could see myself he could see that I was killing myself with alcohol and I just couldn't see it and there were

there were moments where you know I got caught not doing drugs but there was a rap or there was a note with some residue and I was becoming sloppy and it was always because I had people over and there was a barbecue and so I would blame them but he knew he knew it wasn't them he knew it was mine and of course I wasn't going to admit it right that meant facing up to everything else

you know admitting that that meant that I had to look at my alcohol abuse and I wasn't ready to give that up. I didn't want to let go with my alcohol. From what I understand, Hugh also, he didn't drink. No, nothing. He's never tasted alcohol before. Hasn't tasted alcohol. No.

So how... Which is mad, right? I was going to say, how did the relationship, especially during that time, how did it play out? Because he, as you said, he's aware that you are literally killing yourself from the alcohol. He's beginning to catch you out. a little bit on the drugs. I'm getting sloppy and I am.

It's like I want to be caught. It's the easiest way I say in it. It's like I'm becoming sloppy, but I'm kind of subconsciously aware of it. I'm aware I'm sloppy. Because if I was just like, if my husband or somebody just literally broke in on me and found me in this compromising position,

I couldn't hide. but I couldn't say the words I couldn't ask for help and now we know about addiction and since then it's very difficult extremely impossible to help somebody who doesn't want to be helped

and so whilst I kind of wanted to be caught I certainly didn't want to be caught and I couldn't say it out loud and I was so shameful of what I was doing that like my relationship with food where I get comfort when I'm punishing myself, it was like that towards the end with drink and drugs. I would feel so negatively towards myself that I was in this situation and that I couldn't stop drinking and I was being sick and it was blood

and I couldn't wake up until I couldn't get out of my own. bent and had a drink. That's if I woke up. I would often not go to sleep. I was spending money. I was manipulating people in situations to get what I needed. I was lying all the time. And so my punishment would be to drink more. And our marriage only worked because he was able to part mentalize what was happening to me in focus on the kids and himself. So he was able to shut that off. And that was the only way he coped.

And it sounds harsh. And I hated him for it. Because in my mind, I'm thinking he doesn't love me. He's not there for me. And so I'd push him further and further away. But the more I pushed him, the more hurt him. Yes. and so he had no choice but to wait until I was ready.

Yeah. What made him wait because it's, I find the relationship between you and Hugh so interesting because in many occasions, or should I say many times when you have one partner with addiction, another partner or not is the partner leaves. Yeah, I know. You know, because addiction also lends itself

to other pieces, and you talked about it, manipulation. Yeah. You're lying to people. There's money involved now, right? And so many partners see all that. They say, I'm out. I'm taking the kids. I'm gone.

Yeah. Why do you believe he stayed? He's a good man. He loved me. He saw that I was there. When I didn't, you know, at the time I didn't say any of that, you know, I thought he hated me. And we do this a lot. You push.

When I say we. I mean, addicts. We push away what's good for us because we feel like we don't deserve it. And it was too good for me. And I don't know. I know now that there were conversations he had with friends that I've asked not to,

I don't want to know about them now. Okay. And so there were conversations that he had with other people and my friends at that time. while I was in the midst of it and I know that certain friends because they've told me that they told them to walk away.

Really? Really? Because they saw what you were doing. Yeah. And when you, we even talk about things like manipulation, right? What were you doing? If there was, like you know how we had bubbles in COVID?

Yes. I cleverly manipulated my bubbles to be. people that I could drink and use with. Not all of the bubbles, but I cleverly manipulated why it should be those. Okay. And there was always a reason. If there wasn't a party in the garden,

a barbecue, a pub visit, or something like that every day that would be absolutely extraordinary because I would manipulate things happening to aid what I was doing so that people wouldn't look at me as if it was different. So, you know, if there was a kids party, say my kids' parties, I would have alcohol for the adults. So then it allowed me to drink.

That's a great example of my manipulation, something good into easing what I needed. and manipulating other people around there just to literally do what I want to do. I see it. That's a great example there. I hadn't even thought about that. Yeah, I see it.

Yeah, I see it. So at that point, it was all about you? Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah, it was all about my needs. But how dare you say that to me at that time? Right, right. Because at that time.

Oh. Oh, yeah. Oh, you say that to me, I'm fighting back. Yes. I'm full of rage. I am, how dare you make me look at myself, kind of out of achieved. And what do you know, Hugh? Like, you've never drank before.

You know, what do you know, you haven't gone through the menopause or, you know, whatever I could blame. I would blame so many things. I would blame them. I would push Hugh away. I would push my friends away. You know, when they stopped inviting me out to places, I got so angry. And it was, now I know, obviously, you know, looking, back is because they couldn't, they didn't want to be with me while I was killing myself.

Right. But they had to do something, which is why they're talking. Yeah. And so. But I just saw that as them going behind my back. Okay. Yeah. Now, did they eventually try to stage an intervention?

They did. Did it work or no? No. It didn't work. No. Why not? I talked my way out of it. There was a guy from rehab.

There was my husband. There was my manager. And who is a very close family friend. And there three of them were there when I got home one day. And there were videos on Hughes Form from her best mates, which I refused to watch. Okay. And they wanted me to go with this guy who had never met and go to rehab. Right there.

Right there and there. That moment. And I remember I didn't like him anyway. And I had it at a sixth sense. And Hugh didn't really like him either. And I'm glad it didn't actually work out. But the reason it didn't work out is because I taught one way out of it. I promised.

And at that point, I really meant it because I hadn't tried to stop at that point. I hadn't tried to stop drinking. I loved it so much that I didn't want to stop or try. And so when I was caught out and this was a real thing, and I didn't want the public to know, I didn't want anybody to know. The thought of the public knowing that I was an alcoholic or drug addict was just too much

and I thought I'd never work again but you know that wasn't so much my thinking then maybe that was when I went to rehab but it was just fuck I need to do something now

I need to why so I am dying like the doctor told me my liver's in a bad shape but at that point I hadn't been told it was failing yet so I got told that I needed to reduce my alcohol intake not stop. So I was given all of these little lights. And so I was able to, well, actually, okay, if I do what the doctor said, let's do that.

I promise, I work on it. I want to be better. And we kind of worked out. I said, no, you don't need to show me those sad videos. I get it. It's fine. And just what I do with everything. Let's just crack on.

Yes. And I tried. I tried that half a bottle. for about a day. And the obsession was so on me that I just, that I think that was the first time that I, that I bought a bottle of vodka and a nectar. Up to that point, I was, here's my stomach going, up to that point, I drank vodka, niece, yeah, sure, but like shots.

So then I could excuse it, you know, it's done in a mixer. I take trebles. Yes. What's the point in having a double when you can have a treble? And so I could disregard the amount of vodka I was drinking at that point because it was always mixed. But I think that that week definitely after I started to try to get better. And I couldn't. I was craving alcohol and the strongest thing I could think of was vodka.

and I bought a cheap flask of vodka and I downed it and it hit the spot you know cocaine was around but it wasn't every day it was there sociably if I wanted it I knew where to get it if I needed it but that vodka in that moment became that next two year relationship with the vodka ball

because I got that hit that I had been looking for and I was chasing that hit that I had that day. Every time I tried to stop I couldn't. And every time I tried to stop, I was sick. I felt better when I drank alcohol. Like the absences of not drinking, whether it be an hour or a couple of hours, because it was never a day, I would feel physically sick. And when I drank had steadied me and I felt better. Now that's a drunk. That is old school in the AA literature. all those old stories from Bill Wilson back in like 1944. That was a real drunk and I'm that person.

But of course I couldn't see it, but I'm now emulating the exact same behaviours as what my visual of an alcoholic looks like without being the visual. Yes. You know? Yes. And I remember there were many points in that way.

I just didn't want to wake up. I just didn't want to be here anymore. I didn't see your way out of it. I couldn't stop. I couldn't stop. And I couldn't ask the help. And I couldn't, and I couldn't, and I couldn't, and I couldn't. And I knew I was kidding myself.

And so I thought one day I'm just going to die. And I had no fight left. Like, it's all well and good looking back. And oh my God, I've got my beautiful husband and my beautiful. children but alcohol stripped me away of all of that it stripped me the ability to care and that sounds really harsh but that's the reality of what alcohol did yeah that that that's so uh i mean you can see how insidious absolutely alcohol and drugs are because here you are someone who you love your partner you love your children

but dare I say in that moment you love the alcohol more they were not absolutely yeah in that moment I loved alcohol more that's the best way put in it yeah I kind of needed it and I got down in my knees and

I was praying to God and it was just I was just crying out of how what then becomes the turning point for you Yeah. It was a really rough week this particular week. And I had a really bad night out in London with some friends and that became hostile between us.

And it was just, I don't really remember much. Okay. You know, like towards the end, I was this drunk one day's the next and it was all a big blur. And whether I was going out or not, I would have drank corpious notes beforehand. And I remember arranging a couple of day stay at a friend's house and Katie Price, being one of my good friends, was meeting me there and we were going to hang out for a couple of days.

Kate's not great at keeping up with promises when it comes to showing up to things. She's either late or she just doesn't come. And so I was like, she's never going to come. I was like, something else is going to come along. And I'll just have a phone call with her instead. I was like, oh, she's going to be late. And I remember showing up to my friend's house, and I was in a rough way.

And I continued to drink that day. And the host wasn't even drinking. And I was drinking everything that she had. She had an array of things. And I was like, okay, it's going to come soon. We're going to have a great night, you know. And she shows up. And on time.

And I'm like, great. We've got more drinking time and the end and no, no, no. That wasn't that wasn't what I got from Kate. I don't know whether she had spoke to Hugh or whether she had a six sense, but she had a feeling I needed help. Okay. And she said that it was a gut feeling. And she brought her book that she had written in the Priory. She had just came out of rehab.

That's right. This right. Remember, she was on. We talked about it. And I was a mess. And I said, and you're not drinking. She says, no, I'm not drinking anymore. And it was like the old Kate was there in front of me.

But I was then this person that I don't even recognize. I see. And I recognize her. I recognize it's Katie. She's, that's who I was friends with at the beginning in life. And that's who I've known for all these years. And this is the Kate when she's not drinking. and I was like, how'd the fuck he done that?

And she's like, she read out all these questions that she got toes in the Privy and I answered yes, yes, yes to every single one of them, while crying and drinking. And drinking. And she got the ball rolling in what would be then my last drink. So she took her phone off me. and Kate rang Hugh and told him that she was going to get me

an appointment to go to rehab and I'm freaking out and I'm and he's kind of met in one hand going I asked her to do that two years ago why now why with Kate and

the clearest way I can put it now is that Kay had something I didn't in that moment in time, which was sobriety. Okay. And I wanted to know how she did it. And so that made me intrigued because she drank like me, right? Right. And so if she could do, maybe I could do it. It was the support I had around me, I'm my husband and my friends, was always there.

Yes. But they weren't like me. So in order to kind of wake up and listen and see what you're doing, you have to be confronted with the same. Somebody who's like you, who's now living a better way of life. And that is, it could have been Kate, it could have been anybody. but I was never in a position where I was with somebody who was an ex-alcoholic or an alcoholic or drug addicts. I was never with those people

because the people that I drank and maybe used with put it down. Like that's crazy for me. And from there, I had, it was a world winner of 48 hours. I had three guardian angels over that 48 hours. And I don't speak about the other two. much.

But Kate got the ball rolling. Yes. My friend, Jackie, kept the ball rolling for me. She helped me financially and supported me and my family through a lot of times. And she's still one of my best friends today. And I've been able to repay her in other ways. And then I had Rochelle, who's my bestie, who took me into a home, knowing the same.

that I was in, knowing I didn't, I couldn't go back to my house for that night before I went to rehab because I would have talked my way out of it. Okay, that's why. Whereas at the time, Hugh saw it as me not wanting to go back, I think. But my friends saw it as, you're going to convince Hugh you're all right if you go back home. Oh, wow. So Hugh thought you just didn't want to be back home? Yeah. Okay.

And I thought he didn't want me there anyway. but it actually was my friend who saw that if I went home she knew I'd talk myself out of it talk him out of it and she took me to the priory she delivered me on the doors with her child's in the back seat because she was yeah she was just amazing

and I took my last drink at her house and it was so sad because I stopped the night before so when I knew I was going in rehab I actually stopped. Okay. And I didn't drink that night. That was the first time in years.

But I just thought I've got a chance. And I stopped. And I remember I was so ill that night. And then the next morning, as I'm getting ready to go in the car to leave, I pick up a pink gin. Pink gin. I hated gin.

I didn't even drink gin where I was desperate. it but for some reason this shiny bottle of pink ginger and I saw it and I felt like I was gonna die and so I downed it and her son walked in and said auntie Michelle you're not meant to be doing that are you and that was low and then I got in the car and I and you know when I arrived at rehab when I arrived at the private me um it was difficult because I never got to say goodbye to the kids or Hugh and he was starting a new job at the time and it was just it was just the most unideal time in in married life that it could be for me to have took four weeks out four weeks oh four weeks yeah wow but I was I was very lucky that he he didn't my he didn't

open up to me the chaos that was happening you know with having to get my mum down from geert said to come look after the kids week ago to work and that call that he had to make to my mom my mom had no idea of anything. That's right. She had no idea

that I was this bad. So if someone believes they are facing addiction right now, they're battling. Yeah. I'm not sure. Yeah. What would you like to say to them? Do you know what?

I think one of the most helpful things that I had and I did this after Kimmeri Rehab was I think it was on the website or one of the affiliations for the 12-step program, because I follow 12-step program. Okay. There was like this really long questionnaire.

It was quite a simple questionnaire. And, you know, the questions are things like, have you ever liked about how much you've drank? I mean, I'm sure almost 99% of us could tick that box, right? Yes. And then there's like, have you ever manipulated a situation to get what you want? I think if we're all honest, 99% of us have done that. And so, and the questions went on and the question,

what, have you ever hidden alcohol so that you can drink it? Have you ever drank it alone? Have you ever shut yourself off so that it can continue the party? And then these questions become more relevant to people who are maybe on the brink of alcoholism. And before you know it, you kind of tick them all. I see. That was what happened to me. Have you had bad consequences?

And the consequence of me were getting bigger and bigger daily. Can I show you something that I think you'll love. Okay. You ready for this? Oh gosh. I think you're going to love this. What's happening in that photo right there? Tell me about that photo.

I think this was five days before I got released from rehab. And I was doing really well. And Hugh brought the kid. because he had brought them a couple of weeks before that and it wasn't pleasant for them and I understood that. You know, mummies in this big hospital but I was doing really well

and I looked so much healthier and these are on the steps of the Priory. For me, this picture just, it's everything in my life that's important to me and the reason why I went to rehab and and just

it it screams just love babe, just love I think I just see lots of love

just a heads up this next part includes discussion of suicide if you or someone you know need support we've included

resources in the show notes please take care while watching with the hysterectomy there's someone very close to me who is going

through trying to figure out if a hysterectomy is the right thing for her. Okay. And I'm involved in this process. So from what I know now is that when you have that removed, you're talking about overnight, testosterone, progesterone, estrogen stops. Exactly. Yes. Yeah, exactly. And while that was articulated to me, I didn't understand it.

Sure, sure. I didn't think about it. I had just had, so I had, so timeline wise, I knew I was Bracotoo positive, which carries an 80, 85% risk of breast cancer and 30 to 40% risk of ovarian cancer. I was pregnant with faith when I found out, I could have it. And then as soon as she was born, the midwife in the hospital said, do you have any, you know, have you. inherited any genetic disorders and I remember my dad saying oh I might I have this from him and put the letter away, didn't even think about it and she looked at me stony and just was like, you could have passed that on to your daughter. You really should think about getting tested.

This is the Bracca 2 variant. Sorry. This is the Bracca 2 variant. Yes. Okay. Because also to, before you coming in and I was doing my research, I had no idea about the Braca 1, Brocka 2. Oh, okay.

Yeah, and I find this to be fascinating. Yeah. So, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but we all have Brocka one, Brocka two. Yes. But there's a variant. Uh-huh. And that variant, if passed on, then it dramatically increases the likelihood that to a woman. Mm-hmm.

That these cancers are more likely. Yes. And they also take into consideration at what age, the, other women in my family had these cancers. So you're not just tested randomly. You know, I was offered the test because my dad had the test after his mum died of a bary and breast cancer and her mom also had them. I see. So there's a direct link. I see. And that's how I got offered the test because my dad was positive. And so I decided to go for the test. Faith was a couple weeks old and um i remember we me my husband faith was just a baby and we went to get the results

and um and it was it was positive and before before she even finished her words i had already decided what i was going to do if it was positive i already knew it's going to be positive yeah of course it was i was i was like yeah course i was like yeah course i got it. Not like a poor me attitude, but like of course I've got it, you know. Yes.

And this is just, this is another thing. And so I was like, right, when can I have my double mastectomy? And so literally put the motion in chat with that. Like I obviously had discussed it was Hugh

but the risks were really great, especially in my age. They can't tell you what to do. They can recommend what you should be looking at. But the risks, if I can just underscore, because this is also, I think this is such important information for everyone is that so a person who inherits Broca 1 or Broca 2 variant has a 50% chance of passing that variant on to a child. That's correct. Right.

And then the BRCA variant gene, it increases your risk of breast cancer between, of getting breast cancer between 50 and 90. 90%, so 50% to 9% higher than people without it. Yeah, and we're already living in a world where, you know, so many people are affected by cancer. Yes. And then on top of this, one in 400 people have the faulty, Braca 1 or Bracca 2 genes. So I can now understand the position that you're in.

Immediately you find out, you think, I'm going to have a mesectomy, which is the removal of both breasts. Yeah. But now, did you consult with anyone? No, didn't talk to anyone? No. I mean, obviously, like, there was pamphlets,

and when they told me about it, they talked through my options, but I was very, you know, I was visually prepared for just things. Let's just get it done. This was before I had AJ, my second child. And let's just get rid of the risk. Like, I'm in that emotional, just-given-birth moment

where I'm looking at faith. And I'm thinking, first of all, I could have passed it on to her now. And also, I don't want her as a young child to go through watching her mum, what my dad did with his mum and so forth. What I looked like after it was in no way a talking point of the procedure. It was a no way. I mean, can we spend a moment on that?

Because I understand the risk that you're calculating. But, and I'm not a woman. Yeah. So I can't fully put myself in your shoes. But for someone who had placed so much value in external. validation and how her body looked to have a mastectomy seems to be a major decision. At the time, I think I was, you know, there wasn't a career anyway, you know, at that point I was being a mom and I wasn't gigging.

There wasn't any Liberty X girls or anything like that at that moment in time. And I think I was just in a. content, happy place, but overall by emotion because I've just given birth, that I just made it on an emotional decision. Okay. And didn't think about the consequences. And I know I definitely made the hysterectomy on an emotional choice. And I definitely didn't think about the consequences in that decision.

I knew that going in with the double mastectomy that there was a risk that I would wake up without anything. Had they found anything in their, like, you know, cancer cells, anything at all that they thought that they needed to, you know, further investigate. So I knew that there was a big risk there. Okay. But what they did was they were able to reconstruct my breasts. What they used was a small implant. And they used something called stratus.

Okay. Which is kind of like, what's the way of doing? like made up flesh is probably the best way that I could describe it. So it's, they make flesh-like substance because after the mastectomy, double mastectomy, there's nothing there. It's just, it's just the skin, right? Yes. So they have to build up around this implant.

You can't just put an implant in without having any flesh around it. And so they were reconstructed. And so I woke up with, with what looked like breasts. Okay. And, yeah, so, I mean, you know, that was, that was done and I was like, okay. I didn't talk to anybody. Faith was young, cracked on, you know, had the scars there. And I had no feeling in my breasts.

I didn't even think about the consequences of breastfeeding if I had another child. I had it done and then within a matter of months the opportunity for Liberty X to be reunited for the big reunion came along and then I was back out and tour yeah wow so

when you had your hysterectomy did you talk to anyone and were you aware of the consequences of it? I was me and my husband were looking at having it done and what options that we had.

One of the options was keyhole surgery to get rid of just the ovaries, which was what was going to happen. And I remember we were deciding whether to try for any more children or go ahead. And I think like I had, you know, just, I was just so fearful. I didn't know which way to turn anyway. We were, we had a moment on our couch at home, me and Hugh. One moment, and we actively were trying not to get pregnant because I was on tour. Things were going great.

I had a Christmas tour going. We made every precaution necessary to not get pregnant. And I found that I was pregnant two weeks later with AJ. And completely unexpected. Very blessed for I got pregnant so quickly. Both were. Faith was the first day trying. So very blessed and we saw it as a sign just to calm things down for a bit and and have this next next child and then maybe look at getting it done.

And so then I went into plan mode, which is what I do and just planned things out. I knew when AJ was coming, you know, I had to have a C section because I had an emergency C section with faith because. of my heart. Okay. And so we didn't want to run the risks. So Faithbaker was C-section because of the risks involved. And so then that was told that's what I have to do for AJ, so that I knew when I was happening, my new date.

And then six months to that date, I had booked in my hysterectomy. And so I knew even before AJ was born, that that was our plan, that was my plan. But getting this done, getting that done. And that's kind of how I dealt with things. and I had a really rough time with Eiji. They put them on my chest to nuzzle

and I couldn't give me any milk. And, you know, one of the most natural thing in the world. And I hated breastfeeding faith anyway, so I was like, it's not a big deal. But in that moment, I totally forgot that I couldn't breastfeed. Then he stopped crying. And I'm like, oh, fuck, I can't give them anything. And then he, you know, he was refusing the bottle and it was different and it was really hard.

And he gets sick. He gets meningitis. And he was only six weeks. And I don't want to say, oh, we've got to blame myself. But I don't know, like, have fun to me, blame myself. I've put a fund of it. So with meningitis, it's an infection of the protective members. brains around the brain in the spinal cord.

And if not treated, it can cause sepsis or permanent damage to the brain and nerves. And now I can connect it with your health history thinking that you are in part, which you know you're not. You know you're not. Do you still feel this way today? Michelle, do you still feel this way today? I mean, we'll never know, right? That's the thing.

Like, you can't tell me I wasn't. Okay. Right. Well, can we unpack something then? What I feel like you were saying here is that you feel as if you were a cause to this, you know, to the meningitis that AJ had, right? But do you also realize you are the cause of the life that AJ had? Do you know that? Do you realize that?

No. I think, you know, when you become a parent, you question every day, right? Yes. I constantly question myself. And AJ's now, like, he's coming to himself, like he's flying. But he has dyslexia as well And he's got he wears glasses Although he does wear contacts now

And so all of these little things That has occurred in that LJ's life Yes Okay I understand it doesn't Doesn't bear down to Oh I couldn't give him my breast milk I get that I do understand the difference

However, the meningitis was more likely to be a cause of these other things. And he got meningitis because he had a weak immune system at which I could not give him ultimately the right vitamins and minerals from my breast milk because I had chosen to have my breasts taken away. And that's where it stems from. And you chose to have your breast taken away so that you could be alive for your loved ones. And I get that. Yeah.

But it is easier to blame myself than feel pity. Yes. And I see a pattern of blame throughout your life. But I think grace is such a powerful misunderstood word. right and it's one of the most compelling important things that we can give ourselves and I think the question the big question that you have to answer and let me ask you this is when you decided to have the mastectomy when you just let's go back to that moment what strikes me is you said you didn't consult with anyone right did you do the best you could at the time

time with the information you had. Yes. Yes. Then you give yourself grace. That's it. You did. And I know you did. Do you know more now? Absolutely. Are you more aware of consequences? You're more aware of what you could and couldn't do? Absolutely. Today. But at that moment you did the best you could with the information you had. And for that, you give yourself grace. And AJ in faith right now, how old are they? AJ's 12 and faith is 14. Right. They are 12 and 14 thriving.

Yeah. Can I give you another surprise? Oh God. I don't know if I can take anymore. I want you to take a look at this. Okay. Hi, Mom, we're so proud of you and everything is achieved over the past five years. They're the best, Mom, Mommy, and even though you're crazy, it's got to me. We love you, Mom. Love you. Bye. Oh, my God. Oh, they are so cute.

I love it. They're, like, auditioning for a role on Silvermore. They've taken that request, like, very literally. I can see that. You know, I'm looking at this. I'm saying, you know what, they are actors. Yeah, that's what. They are actors.

That's what they do. They are actors. I mean, AJ, he's come on so much. Look how life can change. Yeah. You know, look how beautiful life can be. Mm-hmm. This is a big week for you.

It is. Yeah? Yeah, I turned five years, clean us over. There you go. This week. Thank you very much. Yeah. And five years ago, I understand Hugh wrote you a letter.

Yes. And this is you entering the priory. Yes. From what I understand. Yes. And that had a profound impact on you. Yeah. Yeah.

And Hugh has written you another letter. This is it. And I'd love to read it to you if I could. Yeah. Because I remember that letter he did in the Priory. And it's heartbreaking that I become that woman. So this is. what he is just written to you.

Okay. Okay. Michelle, five years ago, I wrote you a letter from a place of fear and pain, hoping you would find your way back. Today, I write from a place of pure pride and love. You faced every demon and every challenge, rebuilt trust,

and given our family back the warmth we'd almost lost. I've watched you come back to the woman I always knew was there. Resilient, kind, a little crazy, and an incredible mother. Our kids look at you now with admiration, knowing their mother is the strongest person in the room. You didn't just overcome addiction. You reclaimed your life, and you've made our life full of love and happiness again. every day

I'm grateful for the laughter we share the life we live and most of all for the woman you've never stopped being my soulmate we love you endlessly and we're so proud of you

love I love how he ended it is it your twat what to say look at this is your twat Oh my God, he did that. I call him a twat every day.

Oh, you do. That's the kind of release here that we have. Like, he's a rat twat. He never puts a seat down his twat. My gosh. That is your love name for him? Yeah. That is so true.

I didn't even think about it. Oh, my goodness. But my love language for Huey, you're a twat. My gosh. Oh, my God. How, how beautiful is he? I love that. I love that.

Either that was a big typo. So either I find a funny or he's going to be devastated. I'm going to give this to you when you leave. Oh, amazing. Thank you so much. How you like these gifts? Not bad, right? Yeah, the gifts that keep on coming.

And I mean, right now I can't see straight. So all of the emotion and the tears have I, whew, swallowing me right up. I tell you, it's been a lot. Yeah, it has. So we have gone on a ride. Wow. Are you ready for the final question then? Oh, gosh.

Go on there. There's one more question. He's there. Do you want a more question? What do you want to eat? Oh, and lend those me. I'm starving. Yeah, I know.

Are you hungry? That's the question, though. I'm always hungry. All right. The question is this. Everyone gets it. You've had, you definitely, Michelle, have had incredible conversations throughout your entire life. Which one stands out as the most memorable?

Who was it with? And what did you learn? Oh, my God. the question is, you know, who's, what's the most important conversation that you've had, you know, other than like the obvious, like with my kids. Right. About my, my alcoholism and my husband about what went on other than that kind of stuff. What's been the most impactful and what I've learned from it? Then I would wholeheartedly say this today.

Like I've done podcasts before. I've spoke openly about things. and but there's been moments in here that I didn't even think, hadn't even acknowledged, or spoke about, or felt comfortable to. So being in the presence of someone who's made me feel comfortable, as allow me to open up. And that's not often, you know, I'm comfortable with my husband.

But I wouldn't just, you don't just sit there with your partner and have really deep meaningful conversations all the time, you very rarely do. There's not enough time in the day anyway. And I think what I've took away from this and what I've learned is that it has been a colourful life. And there's a lot that I hadn't realised that I hadn't dealt with and what that might look like in the future.

I need to look at myself. and also just how blessed I am. Like it, you know, all these things that we've listed and all the things that's going on with my heart and whatever, you know, like I am, I ultimately have come away from this, not feeling poor me. Like, yeah, I've had a shit show, but like just how lucky I am I. I got to date Gary Lucy and I got to,

I got to be a pop star And I got to marry the man of my dreams And I have two point Was a 2.2 children, you know And I've got two dogs I've got two Labrador's I've got a beautiful home We've got a gym in our garden

And I'm in a relationship Who fully supports me And who still looks like Paul Walker And he's gorgeous And I get to do this amazing thing Like I'm so lucky like I know I am I'm so lucky and all these things in life

and I say it to people who are going through tough times they're all meant to teach you something and it's hard to take you on advice isn't it so like I can say that to someone and make them believe it and then I'm like what's the meaning of that yes however I do believe everything happened for a reason that's one thing I do believe in

I believe in those God moments I do believe in a higher power whatever that might look like not a religious god per se but as a mother nature as a fate everything happens for a reason in that order to make you the person that you are today and i believe that i was able to unearth some of those things today because of what's happened in my past yes definitely and i thank you for that i tell you i am honored by what you just said and i will just add one thing you talked about how rich your life is because I was telling you how I consider your life

to be a rich life and all these incredible relationships that you have but you are also loved by us thank you you know what I mean you appreciate you

you are loved and adored by us and we all want you to continue to shine your light thank you so much yeah thank you yeah it's been incredible conversation Yeah, it's been a lot.

It's been amazing. It's been emotional. And I want to thank you for getting some things out of me that I didn't think I needed. But also you show me those little things, right? The surprises. Like, whilst I've seen that photo before and I've seen that photo for, you know, the words that they express in the letters, especially, you know, Kelly and Jess and Hugh. Yes.

You don't, even if they say that every. every day you don't hear it. Yes. Well, guess what? You get all of these. Yay. You get all of them. Ah, I can't wait to ring.

Oh, by the way, Jessica from Liberty X adores you. Oh, my goodness. But she wanted me to specifically say she loves you. Oh, my goodness. And everything that you do. So I promised her I would say that. Well, I greatly appreciate it. I absolutely adore Michelle.

I knew I would. I may not have had. The exact struggle, I've had the exact dilemma or friends and family have. And so to me, she's such a rock star. And what I mean by rock star is that she was a rock star. You know, she was a pop icon and continues to be a pop icon. But she's gone through so much turmoil, but become better as a result. That to me is, it's beautiful.

now hearing about her life, you know she's had some of the most challenging, therefore, profound conversations. And for her to say this is one of those among those many is, I can only feel honored, you know, and I think it speaks to everything that we do here and we try to do with the podcast. and hopefully people who watch will take this into their lives, especially with it being Mental Health Awareness Week, it's so important that we have these conversations. It's so important that we learn to hold space for our loved ones so that they can feel heard and they can feel seen,

and that's what eventually helps us to feel whole. I walked in on my ex with a famous person on my birthday. My life literally just broke. apart very, very publicly. Who was it with? That'll definitely get your lawyers in a lot of pickle. I'm gonna be they... It was overnight fame, selling millions of records.

Music industry is the Wild West. I've been screwed over by agents, managers, stole the money. So who do you trust at this time? Own each other. And it was heartbreaking because I didn't want it to end. Can we talk about relationships? Okay, let's go there. I asked him why he wouldn't sign the pre-nup.

I was just crying. My eyes out. The entire wedding. Why was the divorce so contentious? I was like, just please don't take my money. He just pushed this little post-it note across the table with the figure he wanted. Let's talk about Simon, your new man.

I had a new lease of life. At what point did you feel as if this could be my partner? The image of my baby floating down into the dark will haunt me till the die die. Every year, it felt I was pregnant, and every year I lost a baby. It's just torture. So many women don't get to hold their babies

In order to make change, it doesn't happen in clinics. It happens in Westminster. Your advocacy has resulted in you having an MBE. Maline, you are a national treasure.