We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Miranda Kerr: Why Orlando and I Chose Forgiveness (and how my new husband helped me)

Episode Date: February 3, 2026

Miranda Kerr opens up about the moments that shaped her life, from devastating early loss to navigating fame, forgiveness and co-parenting with Orlando Bloom. She reflects on imposter syndrome, life under constant paparazzi scrutiny and explains why she never truly felt like a “supermodel.” Miranda also shares how meeting her husband, Snapchat founder Evan Spiegel, helped her redefine boundaries, family and what a healthy partnership looks like. This is a rare, deeply personal conversation about grief, resilience and motherhood. Miranda Kerr, We Need To Talk Follow me here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk  https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod Follow Miranda here: Instagram: www.instagram.com/mirandakerr/ (00:00) Intro (01:38) What Oprah Taught Paul About Lighting (03:35) Miranda's Childhood in Rural Australia (10:28) The Beginnings of Miranda's Modelling Career (15:15) Miranda Breaks Down What It's Like to Be an Aspiring Model (22:52) How Miranda Became a Victoria's Secret Model (26:33) What Is the Definition of a 'Supermodel' and Does Miranda Consider Herself One? (33:28) How Miranda Met Orlando Bloom (35:06) Miranda’s Biggest Lessons From Her Relationship With Orlando and Handling the Paparazzi (39:40) Huel Ad (40:48) How Miranda Met Her Husband Evan Spiegel (47:16) How Miranda Keeps Things Harmonious in Her Blended Family (51:48) Miranda’s Thoughts on Children and Social Media (58:31) We Need To Talk LA Trailer (59:28) Miranda's First Love And Sudden Passing (01:10:55) Miranda’s Mum’s Cancer Diagnosis and the Birth of Her Skincare Business (01:14:51) Will Miranda Remain CEO of KORA Organics? (01:16:50) Most Memorable Conversation (01:19:41) Paul’s Takeaways Sponsored by: Huel: https://my.huel.com/WNTT30 with code WNTT30 for 30% off Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help. You're racing thoughts and restless nights won't stand a chance. Find Ollie's sleep solutions for the whole family at ollie.com. That's OLLL-L-Y.com. I met Orlando when I became a Victoria's Secret Angel. We ended up dating, and that's when the last one. A lot of like the paparazzi came into my life and there's a picture of me. I'm .

No, you're not. I am. I don't believe it. I was like, oh. Miranda Kirk. You are a supermodel of the modern era. When I was 13 and I won the Dolly Magazine model of the year competition, I felt like it was a fluke. I've had so much rejection, people would only see the success that I've had.

And typically it is the fame and or the fortune that leads to some type of of demise. How did modeling shape your thoughts? It happened so suddenly that it was hard for me to understand, but my whole world just stopped. My first boyfriend was in a car accident and he died instantly. Oh, it completely changed me to never ever take a day for granted. I've seen a couple things. One is literally you went viral for... So, can we talk about that? Before we begin, I just want to say if you enjoy this conversation, be sure to like it. Be sure to comment about what you appreciated.

And be sure to subscribe. It helps us to bring more guests that you want to see. Thank you. Miranda Kerr, we need to talk. I'd love that. So just like that, we're talking. Yay. We're here.

Here we are. Here we are. All right, there are a million things that I want to talk to you about. But you know what I want to start with now. Light. Light. Light's important. We were talking about the importance of light. Mm-hmm.

Right? I have a story for you. Yeah. And I think this is going to resonate with you. So I was telling you that the first time that I was on television, I had a show with Oprah. Yes. The first time I met her, we were on stage. It was about 10,000 people were in Georgia.

And the director tells me I have to walk on stage and introduce her. So I'm super nervous. Yeah, you're like, I'm introducing Oprah. Exactly. That's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of pressure, right? And then what he says is he says, Paul, walk on stage, hit your mark, and introduce Oprah.

Now, I've never been on tea. I don't know what your mark is. What mark? Is there an X on the ground? Was there a spot? Exactly. Where's the mark? What is it?

Where's the mark? And so Oprah sees that I'm confused. And she walks over and she says, baby you just walk on to the stage when you feel the light is the brightest that is where you're meant to be just stand in the light that is amazing i'm all about the light it's all about the light and you said when you sat down you said something similar i did but do you look at light as the literal or is there something you think greater oh obviously but okay so when i was a little girl My mom, she had a little pillow in like hand stitched for me.

And it said, let your light shine. And so it's like bringing that light out that every one of us has. Right. Do you roughly know how old you were? Maybe seven. Seven, okay. So at seven, where were you living? Oh, I was living in Australia.

Okay. In a little country town called Gunnedah. Gunna da. Yeah. How do you believe that environment shaped who you have become today? So I grew up with such a close-knit family. Like my dad's parents, my grandparents, basically raised me because my mom and dad had me when my parents, my mom was 17.

And so she was, you know, working during the day. And then at night she would go to college. So I spent a lot of time with my grandparents. obviously time with my parents as well. But I think that taught me so much, like seeing growing up and seeing how resilient my parents were and the hard work ethic they had. And then being raised a lot with my grandma, really,

who was very, she was like a homebody and a homemaker. And she was an incredible cook. and she, even though we didn't, where I came from very humble beginnings, there was this doors open always policy. So people would call in any time of the day and my grandma's house on the farm. And she lost her mother when she was very young. So she would talk to me sometimes about that

and how important it is to be close with your family. And it really instilled into me that how important family was and how not to take it for granted. It was quite, um, a grounding upbringing for me. Yes. You can see it. So is it fair to say your grandmother was your superstar?

Yeah, she was. She was. Yeah. And I'll get Terry thinking about it because. Yeah. I could see it, you know. And it's so interesting because as I've researched so much about you, I can see that you are a reflection of your grandmother.

Yeah. I feel like she's with me all the time. Yes. Yes. And think of how proud. She also has like a very funny sense of humor. So she was even making jokes when she was, you know, on her last days, she was just trying to make light of the situation.

And she always said, she said, it's fine. I'm not afraid. I know where I'm going. I know that I'm going to be, you know, with God. And I know I have no doubt in my mind. And she goes, I don't know about you, Peter, when she's talking to my grandpa. Oh, really? But she knows.

I know where I'm going. You may not be going where I'm going. You don't know where you're going, but I know where I'm going. Oh, my gosh. What about, you know, and thank you for sharing that. You know, it sounds idyllic. Yeah, it was a really beautiful, humble childhood. Like, obviously, everyone has their challenges.

Like, I always wanted my mom to be there at school, you know, when they have parents come and do things or at a carnival if I was competing for like in swimming because I like to swim. And so it was just comforting to have that. So it makes me now as a parent really want to be there from my children because I have the privilege to be able to with my job and I started my own business to be able to, you know, be more available for my children in that regard. And so I really made that a priority. And I feel for my mother not being able to have the opportunity to do that.

Yes. And I could see the heartbreak and I could feel the heartbreak that she would have felt not being able to have the opportunity to do that now as a mother myself. I had a lot of fun, even with her growing up, like when we went to the grocery store, we didn't live very far away from the grocery store. So she would put me in the shopping cart and wheeled us home in the shopping cart. In the car. In the car.

And because she was so young herself, she would like run, run, run, and then go flying round and round around his circles with us. So it's like we were, she was like a kid, raising kids. And that also makes me now. And it was very playful. Yes. I would also imagine that's also why your grandparents played such a, I guess, significant role. Because, you know, you're looking at kids raising kids. So they said, we'll take care.

Yeah. No way like help. We'll help. We'll help. Yeah. You know, one more note on your grandparents is, so your grandparents are no longer with us. That's right. But did they have the opportunity to meet your children?

Yes, not the baby, but my children, Hart, Miles and Flynn all met my grandparents. And we actually got to spend, so it was during COVID when everything shut down, we had the opportunity to go to Australia and live with my grandparents, my parents, and us under the same roof, which was always like a dream that we had as a family, that we wanted to have all the generations kind of together under one roof. And so it was really special, even though at the time my grandpa was dying. And my grandma was fine. But she ended up passing 20 days after he passed. And anyway, they, so I don't know if I answered the question, first of all, about what they taught me about love.

You did? No, no, you did. Yeah. Can we spend a second on the 20 days? Yeah. The 20 days apart. The 20 days apart. Yeah.

Do you believe that in part, your grandmother passed away from a broken heart? I feel so, yeah. When I was giving birth to Flynn, my grandparents' house got struck by lightning, and the whole house burned down, and they didn't have insurance. And that was the house that my dad was raised in,

that I was raised in and my cousins. Like we were all, it was such a nurturing, loving space. And that's with the house where she had the piano from her mother. Yes. And she would play on that piano, the great grand piano. Was the piano destroyed? It was just the whole house was destroyed. And so after that moment, my grandpa said to my grandma,

look, stuff doesn't matter. Like, we don't have anything. Like, we have each other. and that is the most important thing. And so every day from that day on, he kissed every one of her fingers when they work up in the morning, every one of her fingers,

and told her how much that he loved her. Can I say? Yeah. I, that gave me chills. That gave me chills. Yeah. Yeah. So at a young age,

many events are happening that I can see are shaping who you have become today. Yeah. But amongst all of these events, at what point do you begin modeling? Oh. Don't forget, you were a model for a little while. You remember that, right?

Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. That old chestnut. No. So, yeah, modeling started when I was, it was 1997. Okay, 97. So I was 13, and I won the Dolly Magazine model of the year competition. and a friend of mine had entered myself and herself into this competition and I won.

Then I go and I do this photo shoot in Sydney and it was such a very mind-opening experience because it's like in this big studio with all these lights and this hair and makeup artist and all these clothes and racks and racks of clothing. And I was like, wow. And I was so naive. I was 13, obviously. I was like, I get to pick my own clothes. out of all these clothes.

And they were like, no, no, you have to wear what we want you to wear. And I was like, oh, I remember just thinking, I didn't realize it worked that way. Okay. That someone else picks that there's a stylist and tells you what to wear. And I was like, oh, I just assumed that you would be able to have a say in it. Yes. And they were like, we're going to put you in this chocolate brown shirt. And I was like, brown, I never wear brown.

Are you sure? I'm more of like a red girl. And they were like, no, no, we're putting you in this brown shirt. And actually, it was such a nice contrast to my coloring. The chocolate brown was really, was the right choice by the stylist. It was a right choice. Look at that. But what I also notice in that is you're 13.

Yeah. And you were vocal in what you thought was right for you. Yes. I was confident in myself. You were confident in yourself. Yes. Because I would imagine a lot of 13-year-olds would have said, look, this is incredible that I'm here. I'll just take whatever.

You were like, no, actually. I was more inquisitive, curious. Curious, yeah, yes. And my mom was with me, of course. All right. So I had some confidence because your mother was there. But did you then think from that experience that this could become a career or this was just a one-off thing? I felt like it was just like, wow, this was a fluke kind of.

I can't believe that I got picked. to be here and look at these, there were other girls there. I think there were five of us in this modeling contest that were runners-up. And I was like, look how beautiful they are. And like, I was so, I wasn't, hadn't fully come into myself, obviously at 13. And there's an interview with me when I actually won the competition. And I'm sitting there on TV and I'm like, like this going like, oh, It was a fun to shoot.

That was no. It was so sweet. So you win. Yeah, I win that modeling competition. You win the modeling competition. And that lands you on the cover of Dolly Magazine. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Okay. What then is the next, I would say, major moment? So my mom. My mom said to me then, she was like, listen, that's all well and good. Great. But this is not going to interfere with your school. You're going to make sure you finish school. and, you know, up until grade 12, and then we'll see, if you want to do some things in the holidays, fine, the school holidays, but it is not interfering with school or on the weekends, great.

So that's what I did. I did jobs here and there on weekends and school holidays, and that was the extent of it until I graduated. Okay. And I graduated when I was 17. And then, so I was young for my year. And then my first contract I got was going to Japan and I had this contract in Japan. And I celebrated my 18th birthday there in Japan. In Japan, modeling contract.

Yes. And learning how to speak Japanese. Learning how to speak Japanese. Going on the train, literally not having the cell phone. There were no cell phones back then. Okay. So what year are we talking? Calling in a calling card.

Calling, yes. And so we're talking about. Mike, yeah. This is... I don't know exactly what year that is. This is... Okay, so say this is, but you are... I was 17.

You're 17, okay. Do you then consider yourself a model professionally at that point? Oh, no. No. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. It was all just an opportunity. I was like, okay, I'll understand.

I'll take this opportunity. And I remember I was sharing a model apartment with... There were three girls in my room, so I was one of the three girls. then there was three girls in the other room, one bathroom, so there were six girls, and each girl had a different contract. So maybe you were there for a month and you had to do a certain number of days. Otherwise, if you don't fulfill your contract, you get sent back home. And it's very expensive to live in Japan. Yes.

And so my mom packed me some cans of tuna and rice in my suitcase. So I had those, but I, you know, buying food was expensive. So, you know, you'd wait for your, like, next paycheck to make sure you could go and get groceries. Yes. And then I remember in the middle of the night, one of the girls was going through the fridge. And she was eating my food. And I was like, honey, you can ask me, you can have my food any time. You don't have to wait until the middle of the night.

Like, don't feel like you have to, if you're hungry, you just let me. know, like, we can share this. And I was like, I've got plenty of cans of tuna in there. Don't you worry. Got tuna for days. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. That sounded like your grandmother coming through, too. Yeah. What are you doing? Because I think a lot of people think it's, like, it's just, you're just occasionally getting a photo taken. Oh, no. All right. What's the work? Tell us about the real work of modeling. Yeah. So the interesting part is that it's not, like, as glamorous as people are it to be, at least not when you're doing catalogs and you're doing one shot after the next shot, after the next shot, after the next shot, after the next shot.

So you're constantly on your feet, getting changed, having to get in front of the light, do poses, do like, I don't know, it depends maybe 50 different frames in that one outfit and come up with different poses. You know how you were like, what pose should I do? I've only got two poses. Right, you were teaching me before this, teaching me how to pose. Yeah. Yeah.

And so you had to have 50. I had to have like so many different poses. And they're like, no, be more natural. Be more like that. And you're like, you're like, okay, try in here. And then you have to look natural. So what I found was the key for me is not looking at it like it was the camera, but looking at it like it was my friend or like really connecting with the camera as if it was another human that I was interacting with.

Okay. And so I kind of got a little in my, in that space. Yes. So it's not about the camera anymore. Yes. It's a bad connection. I see. I see.

Okay. So you're developing skills. Yeah. You are, obviously, you're working very hard. You are making very little money. Yeah. Right? So very, very humble beginnings here.

So then what becomes the, what I would call, what becomes an inflection point where you move into professional modeling and you consider your, yourself a model? Okay, so that kind of went on for a while. Japan. Then I went to Barcelona. I lived in Paris. I lived in Milan.

Like all different model apartments. All different contracts. Same setups, though. Same set-ups. Different girls. Yeah. And everyone's like, and I think the models are some of the most insecure people because they're constantly getting compared to other people.

And so luckily I had that upbringing that was about the light inside. that this was kind of like, you know what, if they don't want this, that's fine. But this for me is an opportunity to travel, to see the world and to make some money and save money. Because I always saw modeling as a short-lived job and a means to an end. So then I could save my money. My mom was an accountant, my dad, a builder by trade, both of them. So my mom always drilled into me, save your money, so then you can invest into it. business or something after her.

Miranda, if I can ask you there, is because I often hear that what you just said, models are often compared to each other. Yeah. And that it's brutal, right? Can you think of a moment where you were compared to someone else? It's not necessarily that they sit there and they say, well, you don't have long enough legs as Giselle has. Like, you're like, they don't necessarily say that.

but you go with your book, right? You go with your portfolio, which has pictures of you. They put it out on a table if you're going to a casting. They look through it. Look at you. They're trying to think in their mind, are you going to look good in their clothes? Sometimes if they like you, they'll say, could you try on a couple of things for us? Would you do a walk for us?

Okay. Then they'd thank you by if you're lucky. That's a good casting. Really? And not good castiness. Nice to meet you. Wow. No, like, how are you?

How's your day? How's nothing? It's just... Flip through? Flip through. Great. Next. And then they've got like 30 girls lined off outside.

And then what's going on in your mind when they just push the book to you? You're like, oh, like, you could really take it personally. But I decided to not. And I said, okay, I guess that's not what they're looking for. I've had so much rejection. through modeling, people now would only see the success that I've had. Right. But there was so much pushback and rejection for like, I mean, I couldn't even tell you the

figures of how many times I got rejected from many different castings that you would just go day after day after day after day after day after day. Yes. But do you know what? They might not be looking specifically for someone with blue eyes and brown hair. Right. And that's okay. How are you able to get to a place where you were able to increase your self-esteem?

Enough. Okay, so my dad would read a lot of positive mental attitude books growing up. And so he would like read them to me. Like don't sweat the small stuff. Yes. That was a good one. It was a good one. Also how to win friends and influence people.

Dale Carnegie. One of my favorite books. Yeah. Yes. And I remember where I was, I was in Paris, was in this little apartment. and I was speaking him on the phone, and he said, Miranda, every day you make a difference just by being new. Like, you're shining your light and you're bringing that light

to no matter where you are, whether it is you're on set or whether it is you choose to do something else in your life. So don't feel like you're not contributing because you are. And he was right because through modeling, it then gave me a voice So first I got a face, then I eventually got a voice when I became a Victoria's Secret Angel. And then I was able to talk and influence people, hopefully, in a way that was uplifting and positive and helps others understand themselves a little bit more or gain some insight into health or a different way of looking at things that maybe they hadn't had before. Okay. Now, you just mentioned Victoria's Secret angel. At that point, would you call yourself a model?

Yeah, then I was like, okay, now I'm a model. Then you're a model. You have a very high bar. Before that, I was just an amateur. Yeah. But then I was like, okay. When I went on my first photo shoot and when I saw Giselle and Adriana and all these beautiful supermodels, I was like, what am I doing here?

Really? I was like, do they pick you? They must have got it wrong. I'm just going to find. I'm going to play the part. I'm going to play the part until they realize I'm not one of them. Look at that. So you felt like posture.

Yes, I felt like, yeah, I did. You did. So what's the significance? Because it's interesting. Everyone knows Victoria's Secret Angels, right? But the significance of it, why is it so, why is it such a sought after thing? Yes. Do you know what's funny?

When I was 15, I went on a rotary exchange program. Okay. And I went to Virginia, and I had an exchange student come and stay with me. And then I remember going to my first ever Victoria Secret Store, and we don't have anything like that in Australia. And so I was like, wow, this is like being in a candy shop for kids. It's like a candy shop for women. And I just felt like, wow, and I saw all the girls.

up on the walls and I was like it was very aspirational and kind of it felt like you know this wonderland that you wanted to be a part of so I remember going on the casting for Victoria's Secret it wasn't like oh yeah you're an angel straight away like it didn't happen like that it was like first of all I worked with them you know doing like the pink line yes and doing catalog pink line And then I eventually started working on like the swim book. And then from the swim book, they were like, okay, maybe you want to cast for the show. I was like, wow, this is fun. This is really fun.

And I just decided to embrace it fully and be like, let's have fun with this. This is great. Yes. So you become Victoria's Secret Angel. Yeah. There's one thing that I saw here that, obviously, that I find to be fascinating. I didn't realize this until I was doing the research coming in is that there was a, I mean, you know this better than me, but there was a gentleman who was a stockbroker. Okay.

In Australia. You know about this, right? I remember this. So you're 27 years old, right? He's a stockbroker. He was caught on live TV. looking at photos of you, right, while he, during a colleague's interview, that video went viral. Forgot about that.

Got 1.3 million views. And then you supported a campaign to help save his job. Yes. I was like, give the poor guy a break. Let's not criticize. It's not for us to judge, right? It's for us to support each other and be kind to each other. Yes, yes, it is.

Yes, yes. And, you know, let's just say it's PG. Yes, it's PG. It's PG. So he was looking at these photos of you. He was very impressed instead of being on this interview. Yeah. All right.

So now, at this point in your career, you consider yourself a model. Yes. Do you consider yourself a super model? I didn't really never thought of myself in that terminology. I've always just seen modeling as a great way to express myself creatively, work with some of the most incredibly talented people, artists. We have to connect this with the supermodel. You said you don't see yourself in this terminology.

Have there been such a thing as supermodels? Well, I see like Cape Moss as a supermodel. Jazele is a supermodel. Yes. Adriano is a supermodel. Yes. Helena Christensen, Christy Tirlington. Yes.

Supermodels. Yes. So you don't put yourself in that category of supermodel. Are you just being humble? No, no, really, I don't. I don't. You know what it was wild is? So when you were coming over here.

Yeah. Right. I had done all my research, but there was one question that was just like just here. And I was asking myself, what does supermodel mean? Yeah, what does it mean? I was asking, like, and is Miranda? A supermodel. So I went to the resource of all resources, ChatGPT.

Yeah, and what did it say? And ChatGPT said basically a supermodel is someone who is a model. Okay. Who has achieved global iconic status. Wow. And then I ask ChatGPT, and this is the proof, look at this. I ask ChatGPT, here it is. This is my last question.

I want you to read, I want you to read my last question. question to chat ch pt this is after i've asked wait this is my take so just this question oh is miranda cur one and what is chat chvetyt say yes miranda ker qualifies as a supermodel though she represents a modern evolution of the title rather than the 1990s archetype which is what we think of exactly and moss and this is exactly what you said why she qualifies global visibility commercial and brand power longevity and reinvention. Reinvention. That's what the fashion industry helps reinvent you. And that's fun. Okay. Because you get to play a different character. Interesting. Cultural impact. There you go. She helped normalize a more holistic, feminine, wellness-oriented idea of beauty.

Love that. Yeah. And then... So Miranda. Miranda is a supermodel of the modern era. I love that. I love that. Thank you, Chad GPT. There you go. Love that. You are a supermodel of the modern era. Wow. Yes. Not bad. Not bad at all.

Not bad at all. All right. So, can we talk about a first? There were many firsts in your career. Yeah. But this in particular, now this was, I thought this was something here. Oh, yeah. On the cover.

For everyone listening, what did I just give you? So this is the cover of Australian Vogue. and that was when I was first pregnant with Flynn and I was so excited to be shooting obviously a cover of Vogue but the fact that they captured it when I was pregnant with Flynn. Yes.

And I also had so many other fun moments that were captured in fashion. Okay. Paulo Reversey took a picture of me pregnant with Flynn and I walked the runway for when Nicholas Gessgear was with Balenciaga. Okay. So I walked the runway pregnant, six months pregnant.

And then after I gave birth, I walked the runway like a month after I'd given birth. Wow. So. One month after? Yeah. It was pretty wild. Yes. Flynn was with me through all of these historical moments.

All of these moments. He's a good kid, Flynn. Yeah. I could, I mean, good stock. Aw. Good stock. One of the things that, you know, we don't have to go deep on this. And I know that oftentimes their reporting is inaccurate.

But by 2014, Forbes had named you Miranda as the third highest earning model with a reported income of $7.5 million. Now, we don't have to confirm or deny it. But one thing I know for sure is here is, this little girl from Australia, humble, whose mother is packing tuna and rice for her at 17, 18 years old. And here you are a millionaire by the time you're 31. How do you reconcile that? Because not only are you wealthy at this point, but famous.

How do you reconcile that? Because one of the things that I find so interesting is that we have most public figures that we interview here on We need to talk. And typically it is the fame and or the fortune that leads to some type of demise in their life. It can. It can. But it didn't for you. No.

Why? I truly believe my upbringing was really the most grounding force in my life. Everyone has their challenges. and what's important is to kind of appreciate the days that we have while we're here. Because we just never know when that might, we might not be here tomorrow. And so I think that's kept me really grounded. And I've always wanted to, you know, I've just growing up in a little country town and Australia, you have that inside of you.

And the funny thing is, I feel like my kids have that inside of them, even though they didn't grow up that way. Yes. And so my husband always says, I want to make sure, and I agree with him completely. I want to make sure how children are going to be humble, and they're so fortunate, and I never want to raise children that are entitled. And I said, I am with you 100% of the way. But in my mind, I'm like, but of course they're humble.

You know, because when you feel like you've grown up that way, you have this idea that you're a children that are going to be the same. Yes. But we do so many things with them to kind of help them realize the life that they have is very, very, very extremely. Privilege. Privilege. Yes. And they're blessed. And they're blessed.

All right. So then thinking about just relationships in your life. Yeah. Was Orlando Bloom the next significant relationship in your life? Well, he was trying to think I met Orlando after a Victoria's Secret show. Okay. See, Victoria's Secret? Victoria's Secret.

Yeah. He was there. And Rosie Huntington brought him over to me. I don't know why. but she was like, and it was kind of dark, and Lander's hair at the point, that point was kind of long. And I couldn't really see, like it was in the nightclub, it was an after party.

And I was like, hi, I'm Miranda. And then he says to me, wow, you're the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. And I was like, he's saying this to me in front of Rosie? I think she's beautiful. Like, you know what I mean? Yes. Like, how can he be so? What is he doing?

And then he tried to like pursue me and try to get my number because I didn't give him my number. Okay. And then he tried to get my number from my agent. And then he ended up getting my number. And then he called me. He was persistent. He was persistent. Yes.

And then, you know, we ended up dating and we were together for quite some time. Yes. And that's when a lot of like the paparazzi came into my life. And that was really strange. to have to live every day with that. Like that, yeah. It seems like that was another period of your life where you were reflective, you learned about what you want.

What do you think the biggest lesson was during that time with Orlando? So many lessons. And Orlando and I are great friends. Yes. It's his birthday today. Is it? Yeah. And I just wished him happy birthday and he told me,

thank you to me for being such a wonderful mother to Flynn and a great friend to him and how grateful he is to have me in his life. And I feel the same. And I said, thank you for everything that you are. And being such a, you know, wonderful father to Flynn. And, you know, I wish him only all the best for this coming year. But we see each other regularly. And we always have been very harmonious.

Yes, yes. I think there is such a base level of friendship and respect there that we both have for each other. Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah. So in terms of a lesson, maybe it wasn't what you learned from your time with him, but just how the public was reacting. Because you're right. It was like front page of everything, everywhere, all the time.

I remember going downstairs and just outside of my New York apartment, there'd be like 20 photographers every day. And there's this one funny photo, which is very unlike me, but kind of like me. because I can be sometimes, I do like to have a little bit shock value sometimes, like my grandma, just a little cheeky. Yes. And I went downstairs and I wanted to take Flynn downstairs. But there was all these paparazzi and I was like, oh, this is really frustrating. I have to take Flynn back upstairs now because I didn't want to expose him to that unless I actually had to. I was like, I guess we're not going to park today, kiddo.

But I had to go and do something later in that day. So I let, like I had to leave. And there's a picture of me. And I'm flicking the middle finger. No, you're not. I am. I don't believe it, Miranda. Exactly.

Who would have thought? No way. Who would have thought? And I've got my little dog Frankie there. I've got this Diane von Furstenberg wrap dress on. My hair's kind of wet. My sunglasses are on. And my brother called me as soon as he saw it.

He's like, are you okay? Right. I was like, oh. Are you sick? Right now. He's like, are you okay? I saw you flipping the bird. I was like, oh.

Yeah, that just kind of happened. Oh, my gosh. That's kind of what happened. That's kind of what happens. You feel frustrated by the lack of being able to do normal everyday life things. There you go. There's it. Is that you?

That's me. Licking the camera. I am. Beautiful dress. And so serious. See, my face is serious. It's serious. I don't believe that.

Yeah. Gosh. Okay. I had a few calls, people checking in with us. I was okay. I mean, I was just annoyed about not being able to take my son to the park

without having every second of a photograph But I can see, you're a very reflective person So what did you learn about yourself Or about life in that period? In that period? Oh, I learned a lot And I actually learned how to I ended up after that moment

getting a little more playful with them the paparazzi and being like, okay, come on guys, you've got your photo. Please just, now you've got a photo, please let me go about the rest of my day. So I would interact with them. And so much so that when I started dating Evan and they would follow and he was like, whoa, what's happening? He's like, you're so natural and so comfortable in front of the camera. I'm like, oh, it took quite a while to get that way.

But after a while, you're just like, you know what? They're doing their job and I respect that. Right. Even though it's invading my personal privacy and I wanted to have these moments where I like took Flint to the park or the grocery center and like swung him around in the grocery cart like my mom did with me as a kid. Yes. See, look at that. You're bringing it back. You're bringing it back.

So could we say that one thing that you learned is to give grace. Grace. To those who perhaps, you know, they're invading your privacy. but still to give them grace. To be graceful. Yes. Yes. Except for at that moment.

Yeah, except for that. That's not grace. That's not very graceful. That's not very graceful. But it's kind of funny. It is. And unexpected. Yeah, because I wouldn't think you would do that.

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Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. They say everything happens for a reason, but I suspect everything. happens for a Reese's. Like this commercial break, did you need 15 seconds away from music, or 15 seconds to eat or Reese's? Perhaps it's true. Everything happens for a Reese's. So you just mentioned, and when you were dating Evan, so Evan is your husband. Okay. How did, and when did you meet Evan? Yes, so Orlando and I had been separated for a year

and I met Evan at a dinner that I was reluctant to go to, but I had a good. But I had a contract with Louis Vuitton and part of the contract I had to attend to this dinner in New York at the MoMA. Yes. And I was sat next to Evan at this dinner. And ironically, when I sat down, Glenda Bailey was on my left and Evan was on my right and I'm sitting there and next thing you know, like they had candles and flowers at this dinner, obviously, and there was a lot of people there. And it was only our table right between

Evan and I, the flames kept like going up and like the flowers kept catching the light. And we were like, whoa, what's going on here? And then we started talking at the time I was renovating my house in Malibu, and he'd just bought a house in Brentwood and he was renovating. So we were connecting about that. And I didn't know who he was. I just saw his name was Evan Spiegel. And I explained to him, I said, my favorite song is Spiegel, I'm Spiegel. It's a classical song and it's so, it's an instrumental piece and it's so beautiful. And he was like, I don't even know that song. And I was like, I mean, given he was 24 at the time. I was going to say, so did that put you off then? I would have met. I was just like, how could he not know that song? His last name is Spiegel. Anyway,

so I was like, you really need to listen to it. So I'm like talking with him. And then Dlanda Bailey on my left was like, you guys are going to get married. And I was like, wait a minute. What are you talking about? That one night, that one moment. Just from that moment. She goes, I have predicted this before, but I'm telling you now you guys are going to get married. And I was like, Glenda, thank you for your advice.

I am not looking for anything right now. I have, you know, I've just separated from Orlando. I'm happy. I've got a child. I really don't want anything serious right now. But thanks for your opinion. But no thanks. And she was right.

And she was right. She was right. At what moment, though, do you find out that, okay, this is Evan Spiegel. This is the co-founder and CEO of Snapchat. At what point do you find this out? And does that impact you in any way? Positive or negative? Well, to be honest, I never really dated a younger man.

And I'm seven years older than him. And so at the time, like when we were, We were chatting, and then I was like, he told me, like, we were talking about, like, cameras for the house. And I was like, he's like, let me give you my number because I can get you the great person to come and do the security cameras or whatever. I was like, okay, great. So then he, like, gets up and leaves before dessert. And I look at Glender and I'm like, he left before dessert. I don't know what you're on about, but we're not getting married.

Not interesting. Yeah. And I was like, okay, bye. but I felt like we definitely had a great connection. Anyway, so then, and she's like, don't you know who he? That's when she was like, don't you know who he is? And I was like, no, she was like Snapchat. And I was like, oh, I've been using that app.

And so I had been using that app before I'd met him. Okay. And I was like, this is a fun way to communicate with your friends. And then I went on a trip to Japan. Like, it was like a month later and I was on this trip in Japan again. Japan. Japan. Keeps coming up.

Keeps coming up. And I'm there and I'd finished a long day of shooting and I was doing karaoke and having a sake and I was like, whatever happened to that effing guy, I need to text him. And so that's when I had the courage to text him. Wow. So you really made the move? It sounds like you did. Not really. Well, kind of.

So at the moment, at that moment, I was like, whatever happened to that Evan guy? So I'm in Japan, I'm having sake, singing karaoke. I'm like, huh, did I ever give him my number? Let me see. Do I have his number? Oh, Evan. Oh, I might text him. I text him and I said, did you ever listen to Spiegel? I'm Spiegel? Love Miranda. Like heart Miranda.

And he tries to call me straight away. I said, I'm so sorry. I'm doing karaoke. I'll have to call you tomorrow. And so I called him the next day. And then we just started chatting on the phone for a while because I was traveling and he was traveling. We got to know each other. And then he actually invited himself on the first date because I said I was going to do a yoga class with Guru Mook, who does Kundalini Yoga. And he's like, oh, can I come? And I was like, okay, sure. That was our first. date was a yoga class. Look at that. Yeah. And that was the first time he had ever done yoga. And now we started doing yoga every Sunday for many years up until COVID. And he also meditates because I introduced him to meditate.

Yes. I love it. I love it. You know, you could see where, you know, you've leveled him up. Maybe he's leveled you up a little bit, right? And that's what a great relationship is. Oh, we really balance each other. And so you have now three beautiful children.

Or we have three with him, yes. Yes. Then you have your oldest with Flynn with Orlando. Yeah. And one of the things that I found to be so interesting in looking at the research is it seems like the co-parenting works incredibly well. It does. And I'd love for you to describe it because I think this is, right now, blended families, it's the fastest version of families. And the UK, one-third of all families now are blended families.

Yeah. And so when you look at it, though, there's typically, though, a lot of contention and tension among the families. Yes. But it seems like this is not the case. Like, I've read that Orlando will literally come over to your house with Evan. Yeah. Everything's great. Everything's great.

Yes. How? I think because from day one, Orlando and I had done a lot of spiritual work, and forgiveness was a big part of that. Forgiving each other, forgiving ourselves, being creating peace within the situation. Yes. And we both knew that the relationship was not bringing out the best in each other. And so when we made that decision to separate, I've said to him, let's always put the needs of Flynn first. Like, let's not make it about us.

Let's make it about what's the best in the best interest for Flint. But at the same time, let's make sure that we completely forgive each other, make peace with each other, because otherwise it really weighs on you. Yes. And having that animosity towards someone else. because they didn't live up to your expectations is very draining. And so forgiving each other and being peaceful with each other was a choice that we made so that then we could be harmonious as parents because you know what, when you have a child,

that child is in your life for the rest of your life. So why, when you have a child with someone else, they're always going to be that person's parent for the rest of the life. their life. And there are going to be situations where you're going to need to talk if you like it or not. So why not make it harmonious? Why not make it more peaceful? You know, I'll tell you what, do you follow the Gottman's work, John and Dr. John and Julie Gottman? Godman is a too. Yeah. It's interesting. In infidelity, they talk about how the first step is atoning, right? You need to have that level of forgiveness and that understanding before you can attune. Yes. And then attach.

and that atonement is everything. And it seems like that forgiveness was there. But even from, if you could speak from Evan's perspective. Oh, yeah. Because I think, okay, all right, Evan is like, this is my, this is, you know, I'm the man of the house. Yes. Right. I wasn't in that relationship, so I don't have to atone for anything.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yet it works. Yeah. How do you think, what is it about his personality or that allows it to work? Well, he has a very different situation with his parents. So he's been a child of divorce. So he understands very well how that feels. Okay.

And so what he didn't want is for Flynn to ever feel any of the stuff that he felt, which wasn't necessarily as harmonious as what it is with Orlando and I. And so he makes an effort to be peaceful. and to be kind, and he knows that I love him, and he knows that he's the man for me. Yes. So he feels strengthened that as opposed to anything else that, you know, might be weird with an ex coming into the space, and he understands that he's going to be in our life forever.

So to have that peaceful existence is so important, and he knows how important it is for me. Yes. And I've said it to him from day one. And I think that's something that he really respects about me. Yes, yes. So I kind of set this tone. Yes, you set the tone. Also, you set the tone, you also set the boundaries.

Yes. Right, which is incredibly important. Yeah. Now, you've also experienced something. And he actually helped me have a little more boundaries with Orlando, to be honest. Oh, really? My husband has a good boundaries. And in the beginning when Orlando and I had recently separated,

I was just very, very giving, as always, and wanting to please. And if Orlando had a last minute change, and he would say this himself, I would always accommodate him to that. And then Evan was like, hold on a minute here. Hold on. You don't have to do that. And I'm like, I know, but, you know. And he's like, you know.

Right. You don't have to. So you can be clear and matter and say, I'm so sorry. that your plans changed, but this is, we planned according to this. Yes. So setting the boundaries. He helped. He helped.

He helped. With setting the boundaries. Yeah. I've seen a couple things. One is literally you went viral for talking about the time and the regimen that you have with eating with your children. That is a boundary. Yeah.

What is it that you do with your children? What is that? But why, most importantly, is it important to you? Yes. So I eat at 4.30 p.m. with the kids on the weekdays and around 5 p.m. on the weekends. And then Evan will join on the weekends, but obviously not during the weekdays. I am fortunate enough to work from home. And so I prioritized my time with my family.

because it means so much to me. And to be with the kids after school is so important. So having that time with them and the baby, I put to bed now at 5.30. And the boys, I was trying to get them to bed by like 6.37, but now it's moved to 7.30. Yes. Because they just, mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy, you know, tell me. And I'm like, oh, they're so cute. Like, of course.

And then I, you know. And then by the time I get them. to bed, then Evan's home. And then, you know, I'll talk with him about his day and sit with him while he has dinner. If he hasn't already eaten before, I've put the kids down, because sometimes he's come in, eating, I'm putting the kids down, and then we connect after that. Okay. But we have that time together. Okay. My wife and I, we have something similar. Hours is seven o'clock. But the idea is that we always eat dinner together. Oh, and by the way, my 15-year-old goes to bed, 930. He's not going to bed early. You know, I was going to go that. I thought, you know what,

I won't even push on. But there's no way he's going to bed at 7 o'clock. No, no. Yeah. He, I have a rule with my teenager that his devices have to be outside of his door at 930. And he gives me pushback. Oh, really? His devices have to be outside of his door. Outside of his door. Really? At 930. Interesting. Not using them. So what about screen time? Well, I had parental controls that I actually activate from my phone to his phone that allow him to have, like, you know, screen time. But they have, here's the thing. At school these days, they have to have screen time. So I would like, say, you know, I would be like, okay, so you can have screen time at school.

And then when you get home, you can have an hour of screen time. And then he's like, but I need to do my homework. And I'm like, okay, sure, you get to do your homework. So then what the rules I have and that we've decided as a family is that his devices are outside in 930. And he obviously is using, you know, the phones, I'm not the phone, but the computer for school. Right. And so I have like restrictions on there, like age restrictions for his age and that regard. He doesn't have social media.

He does have Snapchat because that's the way all his friends communicate. Okay. And it's interesting that like there's been independent studies done on Snapchat and how it can be beneficial for children with their, not children, but teenagers. Teenagers, yes. With their relationships. It was a study done in Amsterdam, I think it was. Okay.

An independent study saying that it's actually like contributes to their happiness because it encourages like connection without pressure. Interesting. This is basically like a messaging app. But so many times people will put Snapchat in the social media category, but it's not social media. It's a messaging app. Okay. That my son uses to message his friends. That's all the way.

That's how they communicate. Does, I would imagine it's a sticky issue because your husband is literally the CEO of. Snapchat, right? So it becomes tricky, but you were 15-year-old. So my 15-year-old, quite honestly, my 12-year-old is on socials. Okay. And my 15-year-old is as well. And we've had this lots of conversation about it. And one thing I've realized is that I would love it if there was, I like Australia's position on this. Oh, you do. I like Australia's position. But I don't like that they put Snapchat in the same category because it's more of a messaging service. It's not social media.

So there's no likes and comparisons like there is on other social media. Okay, fair, fair. And you're connecting with your friends. Yeah, if it's a message, like I wouldn't put WhatsApp in that, for example. I don't know if it is it? I wouldn't. But for a pure play social media app. Yeah, so for Instagram.

Instagram. I agree. It should be. X, TikTok. Yes. Definitely. Tick-tok. Well, addictive.

Addictive. But I like it being more of a universal ban. Because when you pull out the children individually, what I realize is that that's pulling them out of the socially. I know. And my husband knows all about that because his parents didn't let him have watch any TV. His parents didn't even let him have a computer. and one day he's like, well, if I build a computer, can I have one? And his mom was like, okay.

So he went to the store and bought all the things and built his own computer. Then he was able to have a computer. It's interesting. Like, you can't have a car unless you build one. Well, my parents would say that you can't have a car unless you save and buy it for yourself. Yes. And so I have said this to my children that, One of the most important things is understanding the value of money and having a good, strong work ethic, and working for it yourself.

So I worked for my own car and paid it off, and it was such a rewarding experience. Yes. Working really hard, buying your first car. My husband got given his first car. Lucky for him, but I'm not really sure I agree with that. Yeah, yeah. But I say that you are navigating that though. Yeah.

With him. Hello? Hello. Hey, Cass. Where are you? I'm headed to Jamaica, ox tails are calling, I'm headed to vacate, what's up? No, no, no, no, Paul, you can't get on that plane. What?

The people of L.A. need to talk. I'll be right there. I made it. Paul, come on. I know we're in L.A., but the sunglasses, they've got to go. Come on, we've worried to do. Look, we need to talk is taking a trip to L.A. Same set, new voices and conversations you've never heard before.

Subscribe if you haven't already and drop a comment below. Who do we need to talk to? You just might make it happen. Gosh, I can see it already. We've talked about many different moments with your grandparents, with your mother. Yeah. I know there are other moments. In particular, I would imagine there was a moment that happened in your first relationship.

That truly was an inflection point for you. Yeah. Are you open to talking about it? Yeah. What happened? My first boyfriend, I was 15 at the time. I kind of fell like pretty deeply in love. Okay, you were 15?

Yeah. Okay. Now, just like I have a 15 year old teenager. Look at that. And he has a girlfriend. And he has a girlfriend. Oh my gosh. Do you have a photo of your 15 year old, of your 15 year old and his girlfriend?

I have a, no, I actually don't have a normal. All right. Can I show this to you? Do you have a 15-year-old? I have a 15-year-old. I do have a 15-year-old. Yeah. Yeah.

He at least tells us he doesn't have a girlfriend. Okay. But I have seen a girl knock on the door for him. Oh. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so this was at... This photo.

What's going on there? So this was at my debutanteau. And Chris is my boyfriend, my first boyfriend. and he died in a car accident and he died instantly. And at the time I was 15. And yeah, and it was really just something that happened so suddenly that it was hard for me to understand at the time. Because he was very much like my dad in a way.

I don't like, you know how they say like you either marry your mother or your father. Yes. And he, my dad's like a very like. practical guy who was very much into cars and I would get in there and help him like, you know, he'd be working on his Ute and I'd be like, oh, show me that and that's a V8 and this and let's put extractors on the car and everything. So Chris was like that as well. And so he would drive his V8 Ute to my house and pick me up.

And one day he came to my front door and mom was like, Rand. And Chris is here, and I go to the door, and he's standing there with this big sunflower. Like, the head of it was this big. Wow. Just one single one, and the roots and, like, dirt on the ground on my mom's on the front of the patio. He's like, this is for you. So sweet. It was so sweet.

So sweet. Yeah. And he's literally just taken from you. Yeah. It was really hard for me to understand at the time. And I just, I had so many. just my first boyfriend. I had so many dreams and aspirations for us, you know.

We'd been boyfriend and girlfriend for about a year. And I spoke to him that morning because we had just moved from Gunnedah to Brisbane. Okay. And I had said to him, you know, he's like, are you coming down for my brother's party? And I was like, Mom says I can't calm down this weekend. I'm sorry. But actually, I was going to surprise him. And so he didn't know that I was going to.

going to surprise him because he passed away before I got there. And I didn't know about it. They didn't find him till the next morning because he died on a backyard, back road on the farm. But when I got there, when I had made my cousin drive us all the way down from Brisbane to Gunnarra, we got there to his brother's party and we were sneaking in and I was like, it's really weird. And I said to her, I said, I don't feel like he's here. And I went in there and I spoke to his mom and she's like, oh, he was just here.

You just missed him. He went home to go and get changed. Don't worry. Have a, you know, sit down. Have a cup of tea. He'll be back soon. And it was waiting. I was waiting.

And I said to my cousin, look, I know you've just driven a really long way, but can you please, I didn't have my license at the time. Can you please drive me because I want to go looking for him? Yes. I want to go find him. and she drove me around looking for him. We went, you know, everywhere because he was friends with everyone. So you never know, like, he could have started a conversation with this person and chat,

chat, chat. There was another party going on and she goes, look, I'm going to drop you at this party. You're just going to have to wait and see him in the morning because at this point, we couldn't find him anywhere. Okay. And, yeah, and then the next morning came and I was waiting for him. Every time I heard like a V8, you'd go by. I was like...

You lean in. I'd be like, that's him. You know, and I was like, okay. So the next morning, my uncle came to the door and I stayed at a friend's house and the friend's mom was like, oh, your uncle's here. And immediately I just got straight up and went to the door. And then he told me, I'm so sorry, but Chris has died. And I was like, what do you mean?

And I remember looking outside and seeing people a lot, the lawns and everyone was going about their day and I was like my whole world just stopped like what's happening here and so I just went to my grandma's house and she actually understood because she'd lost her mom when she was really young and she and my mom lost her mom as well when she was young and so my mom came down from Brisbane and my grandma was just there with me and she was like I'm so sorry, you know. This is, unfortunately, it's part of life. We just don't know when the day is going to be.

How does that moment then change you? Oh, it completely changed me to never, ever take a day for granted. And we left on good terms, and luckily, but I just, I really feel and value life as the gift that it is. Yes, yes. I tell you it, Miranda, I have a surprise for you. Okay. That I believe you will appreciate. And is connected to that story you just told me.

Okay. So you see here, this is a letter. I love letters. I love letters. Letters to me are opportunities for us to reflect, for us to share emotions that sometimes words. don't, don't capture. So this is a letter, and it is written to you. But I would like to read it to you.

Okay. Okay. So here it is. Miranda came into our lives in a very special way some 27 years ago. Our baby son, Crissau, fell in love with her. It's Crissot. Chriso used to sit on our front balcony overlooking the moose. River, telling me how he was going to marry Miranda one day.

It was not meant to be. Chris had a car accident on a farm and died. We were so lucky that Miranda remained a big part of our family. On one occasion, when she was in Gunnedda, we invited her and her lovely group of girlfriends for dinner. There were lots of laughs. I especially remember in early 2001, the old age home. had accepted my mom.

And I wish I was trying to talk to the other two sons and explain that they were never to feel bad about putting dad and I into a home. The phone rang, and it was this sweet little voice calling from somewhere in the world to say, hello. I went on to tell her how sad I felt that I had to put mom into an aged care, and I never wanted the boys to feel bad

if they put us into aged care. one day. Miranda responded immediately. No, you won't be, Mrs. M. You will be coming to live with me. Yeah. I said, no, I won't, but don't let them put us in too early. And we both left. Another time, Pete and I were traveling to Tamworth and decided to ring and chat. We can't remember the future supermodel. She called you a supermodel. So you are a supermodel. We can remember the future supermodel being busy with work. And Pete said to her, don't let this change you. It won't change this little duck, she said.

Chris-O has been gone over 27 years and Miranda still remains in regular contact as we do with her. It has been so beautiful to watch Miranda over the years. Always the same. Always true to herself. kind, grounded, and deeply guided by her values. Seeing her grow into such a loving wife to Evan and an incredible mother to her four boys has been especially special.

Her light, her kindness, and love shines through each of them. Miranda, after all these years, still has been a very special spot in our hearts. We love you, Miranda. Well, that's Judy. So we're very close. Okay.

And Judy is? Judy is Chris's mom. Yes. Yeah. Wasn't that beautiful? It's so beautiful. She has away with words. I'm going to give this to you.

Thank you. That's very special. At the end of our conversation. Aw. But what it also, that letter, there's so many things you can glean from that. Yeah. But I see that you have remained true. Yeah.

To your values. Mm-hmm. You remain true to the people. you love. Yeah. That is everything. Yeah. That is everything.

They came over and I saw them. Last time I saw them, we flew them to New Zealand to meet up with us because we were there together. Oh, my God. Last year. And, yeah, and we wanted to have a few days with them. And then we see them, like, I see them almost as much as I see my mom and dad. Because they're like. another parent figure to me.

Yes. Very special. They're very special. Very special. And they've always been very special. And Flynn is named after him. Flynn's Flynn Christopher. And he's names Christopher.

I know she referred him to Chriso. That's what everyone called him Chriso. And yeah, I feel like he's always with me too, guiding me. And after he passed every day for a year, he was in my dreams. And I wrote them down. And he was like there with me talking to me, you know, as if he hadn't gone anywhere. You know, I would say that I can tell when I meet someone. Yeah.

And have, you know, have a conversation with them if they have had someone in their, someone close to them, someone who they've loved pass away. Because there's a different way that we show up when that happens to us. Yeah. And it's interesting. You just use the term expansive. I mean, you really reframed it, which I like. I'm trying to reconcile it my mind. You're like, wait a bit.

I was like, hold on for a second. I want to know. I kind of like this. I kind of like this. But when you say expansive, it was about just expanding. Instead of contracting. Instead of contracting. Because when you're going through that, there were moments when I was really contracted

and just wanted to, like, stay in bed and stay at home and felt really insular. Like, I just wanted to be, like, cocooned. Yes. But then I realized I needed to expand and come out of that so that then I could share the love that I have with other people in my life. I see. Okay. So I needed to expand instead of contract. Fair enough. Okay.

I'll follow that. Yeah. I follow that. I tell you, I know that we are at time, but we have to give just one nod to your company. Oh, yes. Now, with your mother. Yeah. I know that she had a cancer diagnosis.

She had tumors in her spleen. In her spleen? Yeah. How did that diagnosis shape your thoughts, especially around nutrition and health? So when I was a teenager, she had come home one day and said, you know, I have tumors in my spleen and they want to operate on me. But I want to learn and research a bit myself first. and we were like, okay, we started looking at everything that we were using on our skin, on our hair, household cleaning products, and we realized there were so many unnecessary chemicals that were potentially carcinogenic that had led to, you know,

and we were unaware and uneducated about that. And how old were you at this time? I guess I must have been at the time, like around 15. Round 15. So very young, very young. Very young, but it seems like, I mean, obviously, a diagnosis like that would impact you. Yes. But the result was that you became hyper aware of what the ingredients of products were.

Yeah, so we got this little book called The Chemical Maze. And in the Chemical Maze, it just described in layman's terms, you know, the technical name of an ingredient that you'll see on the back if it was like a foaming agent, a humectin or what it was used for. and if it had a smiley face or a sad face or like it was very simple. Okay. And we used to carry this little book around with us and read the back of the labels and we were horrified. We were like, how is this able to be on the shelves? A year later, it was still showing that she had these tumors on her spleen.

So she said, you know what? I don't want to take you all. I don't want to continue to take you through this journey when it's still showing that there is still there. I believe I'm feeling better, but it's still showing. So I'm going to just go and have the operation so we can all just relax. And we're just, I'm going to take my spleen out and then we'll be good. So when they picked up a spleen in the operating table, there was no roots connected to the tumor.

It just was like pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. They just started popping off her spleen. So she feels like she healed the root like underneath. it because there was nothing it was attached to. And the doctor said they haven't seen anything like that before. Incredible. What did she do? What was it that she did? I don't remember the specifics, but we ended up eating organic. She stopped, you know, wearing fragrance. She, you know, really cleaned up everything, like eating fresh produce, limiting any packaged goods, unless it was like maybe dried mango or something.

Okay. We then went searching for clean skin care because we learned that your skin is the largest organ and what you put on your skin soaks in. And that's when like we were searching and we weren't able to find anything that was like truly certified organic and we knew that we were eating certified organic

and we wanted to find certified organic, you know, products for our skin, that's when many years later in 2006, which was now 20 years ago, I decided to start my own certified organic skincare line, first and foremost, for our family, so we could use the products. And then when we got such incredible results, I wanted to share it with the world. Look at that. So you started it for your family. Yeah. Look at that. Are you going to remain CEO of your company? Because I will tell you personally, My wife is a huge fan. Oh.

Huge, huge fan. And I'm sure she doesn't want you going anywhere. So what do you believe is going to happen? Well, this is my baby, my first baby, because I started this before I gave birth to flight. So 2006 was the concept. I launched in Australia in 2009. And I own the company. It's my, it's definitely a part of me, right?

I created these products because I truly believe people deserve better. And I don't want to put something on my skin just because it's healthy. It needs to be results driven. So now we have all the science and the data to back up and all the claims to prove the efficacy of these products. Yes. So it's not just certified organic skincare. It's the results that you need in skincare that's actually good for you. And it's good for the planet.

So regardless of whether or not I be CEO, I will always be the founder. Yes. And I've been grappling with the decision to remain the CEO or not to remain the CEO only because of the time that it is for me to be a mother and that motherhood is my favorite thing. I could see it. I could see it. I think this is what you were put on this planet for. Yeah.

It's interesting. It's like super-moder. model, all these things. Yeah, no, I just get teary thinking about being a mother. I love being a mother. Yeah. I can see it. Yeah. I can see it. This is what you were put on the planet to do. Yeah. Right. I have the last question. I know we want to give you the last question because I've enjoyed this. But last question, everyone gets it. You have had some incredible conversations in your life. When you think about the most memorable, who was it with? And what did you learn? Oh, that's a good question. Honestly, when my grandma was,

was calling me and she was saying this, this is the end. And I was in, I had spent all that time with her in Australia. And she was saying like, to me, I'm, I'm sorry, love, this is my time. I'm not going to be here much longer. And I've got to say goodbye. And I love you. And I was like, no, Nan, it's going to be fine. And she's like, love, I love you. It's okay. I know where I'm going. And I know that, you know, you're going to be just fine. Yes. And I love you and I'll always be with you. Then she said, no, let me talk to Evan.

And she spoke to Evan and she was like, you take care of her for me. I'm trusting you. And she loved Evan and Evan. And Evan adored her. So, yeah, that sticks out to me is the most memorable conversation. It's beautiful.

I'd say what, Miranda, I have loved every moment of this. conversation. And you know what I'm always now going to associate with you, always. You could probably guess. Motherhood? Light. Light. I love it. I'm always going to see your name and think light. Oh, I love that. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to give this letter to you too. Oh, thank you so much. That's really special. This is yours. Let me put this back in here. That's really special. I don't know how you got that. Yeah, I tell you what, we are. We don't mess around.

That's really special to me. I feel very blessed. Thank you. Thank you. I still have this, the magazine here. I think Miranda truly is an exceptional human being. Motherhood is everything to her. Even in her business, you think she's the CEO of a massive company doing millions and millions of dollars in revenue.

and she's considering stepping down as CEO, why, not to acquire another business or start another business to be a mom. That's something that I think it's heavily debated in this day and age, especially with the shift towards individualism. She's saying, you know what, it's really not about me. It's about these little people. The Orlando relationship to me, I loved how she talked to. about they forgave each other. That is the key. We mentioned in the conversation, one-third of all

families in the UK are now blended families. The only way you'll be able to sustain a strong relationship with your ex is if you've forgiven them. And they have forgiven you. Otherwise, there's always going to be an issue. And she's proof that forgiveness actually can create a very happy situation. I'm going to text Jill. She's everything you wanted her to be and more. Not loving your AT&T or T Mobile Bill. Yeah, we've been hearing that a lot. Good news. Bring your AT&T or T Mobile Bill to Verizon and we'll give you a better deal. So get away from that unfortunate phone bill and get to Verizon. Run, ride, canoe. Whatever it takes, we'll be here. Bring your AT&T or T Mobile bill to a Verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal

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