We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Nadiya Hussain & Big Zuu on The Power of Representation

Episode Date: February 26, 2026

Big Zuu & Nadiya Hussain join us to discuss what it means to live as Muslims in the UK today. They share their personal experiences navigating public life, confronting stereotypes, and the power of representation in breaking down barriers. This is an honest and thought-provoking conversation on how media, faith and identity shape perceptions of Islam in modern British society. We're Talking the Power of Representation (00:00) Intro (00:32) Diversity in the TV Industry in Front and Behind the Camera (02:54) Why Big Zuu Started His Own Production Company (05:54) Big Zuu Reflects on the Current Climate for Muslims in the UK (07:48) Big Zuu Explains the Importance of Representation in Media (10:46) Nadiya Describes How She Doesn’t Agree With the Traditional Role for Women in Islam (15:32) Nadiya’s Relationship With Her Faith (18:35) The ‘Suffocating’ Environment for Muslims Living in the UK Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to We're Talking. We're joined by Big Zoo and Nadia Hussein to talk about what it means to live as Muslim in the UK today, in the public eye, in private life, and in a society where misunderstanding can so often shape the narrative. I've been in television here in this country for seven years, all seven years that I've been here,

but then previously in the US, and there's a big difference between the television industry in the US and the UK. Big difference. There's, we're not where we need to be in the US, but we're much more diverse than we are. Yeah, naturally, I mean, that would make sense. See, I come from music, which is way more diverse as an industry.

Yeah. Because naturally, music is open, anyone. So, yeah, your label execs might be of the same, like, the same as telly, but people in positions of power of music are diverse. There's women, there's men, there's people from different races, different genders. Telly is completely different. Yes.

Telly, I've entered the telegame and I'm like, whoa. Big nasty open the doors for me, which I never thought would ever be a thing. I never thought big nasty, the Graham MC would be the person that opened the doors for people like me to get into television. Because nasty open the door for me, that means I can go open the door for other people.

Yeah, exactly. Tony Morrison, one of my favorite writers of all time, right? She talks about what freedom is, is helping someone else become free. Yeah. Right? And it seems like that that's what's happening because I heard you say that you formed a production company.

Yeah, yeah, I got a production company. So out of mad, what's the focus? What's your goal with the production company? The main thing for, we're called Big Productions, which is the easiest thing all the all time, which is hilarious. I could have been a bit more creative. Big Productions, I built it one type of ownership

because I felt like when I was making my show Big Eats, I was coming up with all the ideas, not all the ideas in terms of like I flipping created a show but I came up a lot of it is based off me it's called Big Zoos Big Eats Right right A lot of the essence

The flow, the ideas They stem from who I am as a person But I don't ownership over the IP Over all these little back end bullshit things that you don't care about When you first get into tell you because you just want to present But you start realizing whoa I'm not the most important person in this room right now

The exec is The commissioners they get all the applaudets, they get all the enjoyment. I, as a talent, yeah, I get, I'm lit, but they're actually the G's. Yeah. The exact producer and the commissioner, they're the ones that are winning.

Yeah. How can I be with them? Mm. And it was Big Nasty's team that told my manager you should start a production company, because that's what they did. So Nasty gave me this advice to go start a production company.

So I did. But then I started realizing how do I give people from different backgrounds, opportunities in tele? which goes back to me being a youth worker, raising aspirations of young people. That's been the common theme. Yeah, throughout my career.

Yeah. First season, everyone was white. Only black guy was a runner. Season two, we get a black director. By season four now, completely diverse, service producers as a black woman. I get a black woman to come be a director, camera ops, soundies.

And then this is the point where I started to realize it's not just about color, it's about class. Right, right. So then it's about hiring people from different class. So then I get some working class people in the show. And then I start realizing, okay, it's not just about race and class, about gender as well. So getting women like getting a female director,

getting a female series producer. Just the representation is important because I tell you my son, my youngest son, he saw you. Yeah. He was like, oh wow, I could do this. That means I could cook too, because he loves, He's always in our house cooking up things. He makes me coffee.

We call him the barista. We call him the angry barista. He's always mad with it. He's very Jamaican. He's very, very, very, but when he's, it wasn't until he saw you on TV where he thought, you know what? I can actually do this. Yep.

And there's so much power in that. It's bad, bro. I never realized how much of an impact I'm having that way. Yeah. I grew up watching Simon Rimmer, Gordon Ramsey, like, James Martin, like classic old school white brothers who I got love for, they're my G's. Like, I'm actually friends with them in real life.

I grew up watching them and I was inspired by them. But not everyone is inspired by them. Not everyone has infinity to them. So you're missing out on inspiring all these young people to get into the kitchen and cook because they don't feel represented. And that's what TV has the chance to do, the power to do, is to inspire people to get into things that takes them away from the rubbish they're doing.

Sometimes this country complains about ethnic people or people of color getting into the wrong lane or doing bad things or going on the wrong path. But if they don't have role models and they don't have people to inspire them, what do you expect? How do you being aware of all of this and you have a career that's growing?

Like you've already achieved incredible amount, but it's clear that you're still just, like you're just taking off, right? So how do you manage public perception as well as your personal faith? It's tough, bro. I'm not the best Muslim, in it. Like, I always admit it. Like, I'm, sometimes I do go off track.

Sometimes I do drink alcohol. Sometimes I do things that are wrong. And I repent and I repent in my own way. I always remember, I always tell myself, I'm a human, I'm allowed to make mistakes, I'm not going to be perfect, I'm going to get things wrong. But thankfully, I'm just doing a lot of things right now. I mean, right now, I saw that 30% of Brits

feel as if Islam is a threat to British culture. And most of that sentiment is held by middle to upper class. Yeah. You know, but then at the same time, you have 90% of Muslims in this country have felt an increased threat on their lives since 2024, in particular since the 7th. To me, it feels incredible.

sad both ways. So you being a Muslim man on television, right? What's your thought in terms of how do we, do you see a path to us being able to get to a place where there's a higher level of respect of your religion? I mean, yeah, I think it's so tough to unpack, bro. The BBC just did a show with me called Biggs Zoo Goes to Mecca, yeah? Which aired, which aired last year. And we got so much love for it, so much respect for it. You know, people really love the show. People from all walks of life. And I respect the BBC for giving me a platform to do that.

But there was a lot of pushback as well. Like, why is BBC commissioning the show about a Muslim guy going to do his pilgrimage? Like, do we need to see that? Why are we paying? Why are taxpayers paying for that? What's mad is that throughout of Big East, me, Thubbs and Hyder were all Muslim. All of us are Arab. We say words like, inshallah, we talk about halal.

We don't eat pork. We like, the man they don't drink. All these little things like. And people loved it because we're still British. We don't compromise on our Britishness. We're still British. We're just Muslims that are British. And I think, you know, I think representation is super important

because when you have shows like that, subconsciously we're breaking down people who have a certain, ideology that Muslims are doing negative things to the country because they watch us on the early and they go those lads are all right. So actually maybe that Muslim guy I know in real life maybe he isn't coming for me. Maybe he's cool as well. So representation is super important because it breaks down the subconscious.

The best way for me to give an example is I love Rosie Jones, yeah? Rosie Jones, she's a comedian, herself, with herzy, she's mad, she's mental, she's hilarious, so funny. I've never even had a conversation with someone cerebral palsy, let alone chill to them. So when I did an episode of Big Eats of her, it was a big shot for me because it's like, how do I talk to you?

How do I appropriate you? Do I change how I am with you? Do I just treat you the same? Do I go slower? My brain was thinking all these things. But as soon as I spent two minutes of her, I'm like, she's a normal chick, brother. Do you know what I'm saying? Right.

So it taught me, sometimes you have to be around things to understand them. So my episode with Rosie is my favorite episode because I cook her this mad meal and me, but me and her get on like a house on fire. So now when people watch the episode, they'll see, oh, that Rosie Jones woman, yeah, she's the disabled comedian, and she's actually really funny.

She's a normal chick. She's quite rude and she's quite, she might be a little bit of a prick, but like in a good way. But then that's breaking down the barrier of what you think of disabled people. Now, you might feel disabled people are not able. You might people think they can't, they're not funny

or they don't, they're not like, she loves talking about women, like she's a lesbian, she loves gal. Like you maybe not think that they have any sexuality to them. You might not think they even have sex. So then that's breaking it down. So if that's what Rosie's doing with her, by being representative of people with cerebral palsy, that's what me and Tubbs are doing and Hyde are doing

or representing the people from Islam. Right. But then you can't just have us. You need a wealth of us because Muslims come in different. shapes and sizes, becoming different forms. Same way you can't just have Rosie,

because Rosie is not the only disability there is in the world. You have to have different forms of different representation across the board. You can't just have one black man because that one black man doesn't represent all black people. So even though he's a cool black man, he's a nice black man,

there might be a different type of black man who's a bit more funny or who's a bit more strict or who's a bit more wacky. You need all forms so you can understand all forms of that that race or that gender or that disability or that sex.

So I feel like what we have with representation on telly is that because there's not enough, things get put into a box. So when you think about your womanhood, what was that identity? I hated being a woman. I look at my grandma. Married at the age of 12. She had eight pregnancies by the time she was 20. lost four of those

and every single time she had a girl every time she had a girl she was ostracized because she had to have a boy and she tells those stories she still tells her stories she said my she had twin daughters

and she said they died and nobody cared because they were girls but if those twin if they were twin boys they would have been straight to the doctors so that's that's the kind of those are the women I'm around. She was, you know, she was, she suffered domestic violence. She didn't read or write. I looked at my mum and my aunties, the sort of next generation that I grew up around. They were miserable.

They were unhappy. There was domestic violence. There was unhappy homes. Child after child after a child in the hope to bear a boy. It was, that's not the life I wanted. I was like, no thanks. I don't want to be a wife. I don't want to be a mother. I just want to study. I just want a career. I just want to make loads of money. That's it. I don't want to do any of that. I was like, it was the most unappealing thing. There was not one maternal bone in my body. I was like, don't want to marry, don't want to have kids. Not going to do it. I just wanted to go to university. That was it. And my mom said, if you go to university and you leave this house, I will change the locks and you will never set foot in this house again. And when you're 18 with no financial

backing, no money, no savings, that's a really scary thing to hear. When I didn't go to university, I rebelled in the best way I know, which is to go quiet. I went completely quiet. Nobody knew what's going on in my head. Not one person could say they knew what was happening in my head. I went quiet. I isolated definitely, like I was in the throes of depression at that time, hugely. And I just threw myself into work so I got three jobs, got a car, saved up to buy a house, did all the things that I thought I wanted to do but without the degree. And you were permitted,

you were allowed to do those things. Yes. And just to help me understand why were you permitted to do those things but not the university? Was it because you were still at home? Because I was still at home. Okay.

Because I can still be managed. Okay. I still didn't socialize, didn't go out with friends, didn't, which is probably why I'm not good at friendships, because I, I just, I don't know how to, I don't know how much to put in or what to put in. And so I, I, I, I didn't socialise with friends. It was very much work and back, work and back. I only came home to sleep to the point where I was so angry with my parents. I didn't eat at home. I was like, I do not want to eat your food.

Not going to eat it. And my mom was so sad because her love language is food. And she would like, if you didn't eat, then she was sad. So she would, like, she would. come to my work with a plate of food and I'd say I don't want it. And that was her trying to reconcile with me and I was like, not going to have it. So I'd take the plate and I throw all the food in the bin or I'd give it to someone. Do you want it? Because I don't want it. And then I lived on a diet of Pringles and Coca-Cola for a really long time.

I was like, not going to have it. And that was me rebelling. That was the only way I could rebel. I couldn't scream. I couldn't shout. I couldn't fight. But I could stay, go quiet. And I could stop eating.

And that caused its only way. problems in my adulthood. Sure, sure. But that was you protesting. Yes. To your parents. So when I'm thinking about identity, I could see that even at 18, how challenging it is for you because you're thinking, oh my gosh, being a woman is not great, right?

There's probably challenges around faith. But can I explore that? Were there any challenges around faith at 18? or did you feel fully invested in your faith at 18? Faith is the only thing that saved me. If I didn't have faith, I don't know where I would be. So I started to wear my hijab at 12.13, so 12, I was 12 when I started to wear it. And that was my own choice.

I didn't grow up in a religious, I haven't grown up in a religious family. You know, I didn't grow up with parents that prayed and, you know, nothing, none of that. No one covered their hair. I was the first girl in my family to wear a hijab. Interesting. And what did that signify? Oh, no one, no one was happy about me wearing a hijab. I had cousins rip my scarf off my head. You know, my sisters didn't wear it. My mom didn't wear it. So for them, by wearing it, I was showing them up because they should have been wearing it. So it felt like I felt so alone, so isolated. And you know what that did? That made me stronger in my faith. I could reconcile with the fact that I didn't, I wasn't close to my parents.

I could understand in a peace. I could understand that for me, it didn't matter about who loved me on this earth. There is a greater being that loves me more than anyone that can love me on this earth. And for me, that gave me something to focus on. And I realized at that age, all I needed was, to love someone. So for me, that was the only real at 12. That was the first time I'd, like, connected to something that didn't hurt me.

Wow. How does society impact your faith? And in particular, what I'm thinking about here is before Zahir came on, before I interviewed him, I was doing research on rates of English. anxiety and depression in the UK. And let me see if I can find it here. It completely blew me away. Okay, so there are 3.9 million Muslims living in England in Wales.

So it's 6.5% of the population, massive amount of the population. And the anxiety rates for young Muslims, depression rates for young Muslims, according to certain data sources were 50% or higher versus 25% for the population, right, standard population. So you see significant levels of depression, anxiety, suicide ideation, suicide thoughts. So how does society, one is I'd love to know why do you think that is, in particular here in the UK, but then also how does then society shape your faith so in particular for children.

Yeah. Facing this. They're in that young, that 16 to 30 group, right? How does all of that shape their faith? What lots of people don't realize is how all-encompassing and how suffocating it is to be a Muslim in the UK. In terms of my kids, they've probably experienced more racism at a younger age than I did. The first time I ever experienced racism was the day the Twin Towers came down.

I was in college. I was 18. I was walking home. And two white men stopped their van, parked up, screeched to a hole, came out, spat in my face and drove off. And I cried all the way home and I had no idea what happened. And I was just, I was sobbing. And I came in and Dad was watching the telly and I said, dad said, oh, this is what's happened. And it just like, oh, and it has never stopped since.

But my kids have experienced more racism at a younger age because, you know, they've been called terrorist and, you know, they'll wear their Friday robes for Friday prayer. And it's a battle that we're going to fight for the rest of our lives. And I'm not surprised that the depression and the anxiety is so high amongst Muslims because, I don't think people realize the battle that we fight every single day. And I know that as somebody who works in the public eye. Week 9 of Bake Off, I had to have the production team live in my house because of the death threats. I had so many death threats. I had people, professional people, sending emails to say, very graphic emails about how they'd like me to die.

how they would like to abuse me, how they think they wish that my children get TB and die slow and painful deaths. I'll never forget it. To the point where the police sat in our house and said, I cannot read these out to you because they are so graphic. And he said, I think it's better for you not to hear what people are saying. They are so graphic. So the production team lived with me for 10 days.

In order to protect you. to protect us. We had police outside our house. And that has continued for 10 years. And nobody knows that. Like nobody sees that. Nobody sees the, and do I, would I have had this treatment if I was the white version of me? Absolutely not. And you know what I get all the time? It's the, she's playing the race card. I'm not playing a card. It's a card I was dealt. It's the one that I carry with me every single day. So it really, really has taken a lot for me not to hate humankind at points. But when you think about allyship, so take, for example, myself, I don't practice Islam. I'm not a Muslim, but I want to be an ally. So how do we actually convey and express

and enact our allieship. I think Muslims feel scary to lots of people. And I think if you don't sit down and have a conversation with a Muslim person, frankly and honestly, you will never know, you will never know that they are just people. Like you and me, we're all the same. We're all just the same.

No different to when a Jehovah's Witness knocks on my door, I invite them to come in and have a cup of tea with me. Don't stand at my doorstep. Let's have a conversation. You want to talk to me. Let's have a conversation. I may not become a Jehovah's Witness, but we can have a conversation. Yes. We can have a chat because we're just humans. And if you want to hear the full unfiltered stories from today's guest,

you can check them out on the We Need to Talk page. Drop a like, leave a comment, and hit subscribe. See you next week.