We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Olivia Bowen: I Lost Myself After Giving Birth & What Love Island Never Showed

Episode Date: July 14, 2026

Love Island star Olivia Bowen opens up about the show, Alex Bowen, motherhood, body image, mental health and the private experiences that shaped the woman she is today. In this deeply honest conversation, Olivia reflects on growing up after her parents’ divorce, the emotional patterns she carried into her teenage years, and the relationship that changed how she saw herself before entering the Love Island villa. She revisits the overnight fame that followed, the scrutiny surrounding her relationship with Alex, and the moments that helped her understand she was loved in a way she had struggled to believe. Olivia also speaks about pregnancy, birth, postpartum, loss, and the realities of becoming a mother while still learning how to care for herself. Raw, emotional and unfiltered, this is Olivia Bowen ready to tell the truth behind the life everyone thought they knew. Olivia Bowen, We Need To Talk (00:00) Intro (01:34) Olivia's Childhood in Essex and Essex Stereotypes (03:03) How Olivia's Parents' Divorce Affected Her (08:09) Olivia's Relationship With Her Father During Childhood (13:37) Olivia Reads an Emotional Letter From Her Father (19:52) Olivia Opens Up About Her Teenage Mental Health Struggles (30:09) Huel Ad (31:23) Olivia's Modelling Aspirations After Leaving School (33:14) Olivia Opens Up About Her Toxic Relationship Before Love Island (36:32) How and Why Olivia Joined Love Island (39:03) Olivia's Mental Health Struggles in the Love Island Villa (42:18) How Love Island Season 2 Compares to the Show Today (44:49) Did Olivia Fall in Love With Alex in the Love Island Villa? (47:09) Paul Shows Olivia a Photo of Her and Alex on Love Island (51:00) How Olivia Handled the Huge Success of Love Island Season 2 (56:23) How Olivia and Alex Stayed Together After Love Island (58:59) Olivia Receives a Surprise Message From Love Island's Tina (01:02:04) Olivia's Biggest Highlights After Love Island (01:05:01) The Story of Alex's Proposal to Olivia (01:08:33) Olivia Reads an Emotional Letter From Alex (01:11:26) Saily Ad (01:12:45) Olivia Opens Up About Pregnancy and Postnatal Depression (01:24:53) Olivia's Experience of Vanishing Twin Syndrome (01:31:33) Paul Shows Olivia a Photo of Her Family (01:39:30) Most Memorable Conversation (01:41:40) Paul's Takeaways This episode includes discussion of eating disorders, mental health, and baby loss. If you’re struggling with these themes or your own mental health, remember you’re not alone. You can find help and resources at the links below: MIND:  https://linkly.link/2dx8b Beat Eating Disorders: https://linkly.link/2dx8y Harmless: https://linkly.link/2lcoq  Tommys: https://linkly.link/2feiZ Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk   https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod   Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Follow Olivia here: https://www.instagram.com/oliviadbowen https://www.tiktok.com/@thebowens Olivia’s Book, Lost Until Love: https://linkly.link/2lgfX  Sponsored by: Saily - Download from the app store and use code WNTT at checkout for 15% off. For more details: https://saily.com/wntt ⛵ Huel - Try Huel Lite Ramen - the new lighter instant noodle.  Under 230 calories, 25g protein, ready in 5 minutes. Use code WNTT for £10 off at https://www.uk.huel.com/wntt  New customers only. Minimum spend required. Offer valid until 30 days after June 30th. Sync ID: MB01ZC6OYFJB81Z Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Love Island pretty much cured me as a person for my disordered eating. It literally changed my life. You are the OG of the Love Island. OGs. One hope and dream I had was to be a model. But I was told that only if you get your t' out, will you ever be a model? May have gone on Love Island, but not quite the same.

But when I was a child, I started to have this like immense feeling of shame. I didn't want people to see me eating. So then Love Island. Every day I'd have an inbox, why is Alex with you? You're nothing special. So I just don't think I ever truly believe that he loved me. So what was happening behind closed doors? I didn't really look at myself as a mother or a wife.

And then I just lost myself completely. That's when my bad habits came back and Alex found out, like, someone who loves you so much, seeing you treat yourself so badly. Like, I'll never forget the look on you. He's face. It's a really, really hard time. We lost a baby in the process, but we've never been closer.

We've never been more for each other. So when you look at yourself in the mirror today, Leif, what do you see? Hey there, before we get into today's conversation, I just want to share a content warning. This episode includes discussion of self-harm and eating disorders. If you or someone you know need support, we've included resources in the show notes. Please take care while watching. You grew up in Essex, right? So there's been this commonality with a lot of the ladies I've talked to you from Essex

where the hair has been a certain way, the makeup has been a certain way. I know that. No, no, no. I mean, you tell me, is that a stereotype? Or is that a misplaced stereotype? I think so. I don't think you can. I think it's hard because like you said,

everyone that's on TV has this kind of like Essex thing and it's like yeah like you said the hair the makeup the accent all of that but I wouldn't necessarily say that I'm like a typical Essex I wouldn't put myself under the stereotypical but it's probably someone would and actually if you looked at me before Love Island I was out a lot I did have really bad eyebrows really bad tan bad fake eyelashes so maybe I've changed a little bit it might be the age thing but It is a stereotype, but I think you stereotype everyone from anywhere. Like Alex is from West Brom like Birmingham and he gets stereotyped all the time, especially from his accent.

Like people think he's like not as clever or like a certain way. So I think it happens everywhere. Yes. When you were a little girl, from what I understand your parents ended up splitting up. Yeah. And that caused strain, obviously, on the household. What do you recall around the events? that led to your parents to break up

and how did it impact you and your brother? There's one thing that I remember when around the time my parents split up and I think it was a couple of weeks later, but they split up. And I noticed them they stopped sleeping nude. They started wearing pajamas. And as a kid, I'm like, why would I notice that?

But I noticed that every time they went to bed, they'd have pajamas on. And I was like, they never used to sleep in pajamas. Like, why are they now? That's weird. And then in my head, I was like, I don't think, I don't think they love each other anymore. Like, and I kind of noticed that. And I do, I do remember, like, me and Alex have blazing rows, and we try not round in front of the kids.

But I do remember arguments. I do remember shouting. But I think in that era, I think we all do. I think it was a very different era to grow up in. And I actually saw something yesterday on Instagram about a lady talking about how, once you were put to bed as a kid, you would not allow downstairs. like don't even try go downstairs like you'd be like what are you doing you had to have a legitimate reason to go downstairs

either throwing up something like you're like falling off like yeah literally do not go downstairs and I do remember standing at like my mum and dad's door sometimes when they are in bed and like wanting to knock and like go and get in their bed but I was like you can't you can't go in there

you're not loud but they'd eventually let me in and I remember being in my mum and dad's bed in between them was like the safest I'd ever felt like it was that proper warm feeling of just being safe and I think that's why now abel and sienna are allowed to sleep in my bed whenever they want because I know that feeling I know that feeling of being so safe like in the middle of both of your parents it's just like it was just my happy place I think and I think it did affect me when my parents broke up but I was very adult like

like in how I process emotion. But I do think I suppressed a lot. Okay. Because I'm a control freak and I want to control it. I don't want it to overtake me. Like I want to be in control of how I feel. But my mum was always so available to me. She was always so honest, kind, loving.

Like my parents were always so cuddly with me and we're the same with our kids. And I'll always remember that. I do think growing up in the 90s, there was a very different way of parenting to know. Yes, yes. Now, Liv, how old were you when your parents broke up? 10.

Going into that, you know, that 10-11 is probably one of the hardest times for a girl. That is when, you know, you start your period, your hormones change. Like, it's a very volatile moment. And they, that's probably, I think that's when your hormones are at their highest. And then it happens again after you have a baby. It's called like Matrasense. So I guess going through a divorce as a child in that period is probably meant to be quite hard. I don't ever remember feeling it was that hard.

That's fair. That's fair. So it's interesting. You didn't feel it was that hard. But when you reflect back, how do you believe it impacted you? And the reason why I go to, I pinpoint that is because prior to that moment, you described growing up as idyllic. Yeah. And then I also know that there are.

some mental health challenges that come right around this time. Yeah. So even though it didn't feel hard in the moment, when you reflect back, do you believe it impacted you? If so, how? I definitely think divorce will impact you regardless. I think because I believed I had that, like you said, that perfect family unit, I believed that. So then for that to then go, it would have impacted me. But I guess at the time I didn't believe it did, or maybe I just didn't want it to.

I wouldn't allow it to because I'm always wanting to be in control of my emotions. I always want to be like 10 steps ahead of what my brain wants me to think. So I guess it came out in other ways. And then that was where like all the mental health and the eating and all of that started from, I guess. But you don't believe it's from that. You just believe, oh, that just happened because it happened. Right. Right. Now, it's interesting.

Already you've said multiple times. I like to be in control of my emotions. Obviously, I'm not. I'm clearly not. Well, you like to be, though. You like to try. I would like to think that I am. Oh, my gosh, that was good.

So if we can, just around that time, too, one thing that I want to pick up on is, because I try to pay close attention to not only what my guests say, but what they don't say. So in that time, you just said, my mother did everything she could. And then you continued on with the story. I didn't hear about your father.

Yeah. So if I can ask, what was the relationship like with your father right after the divorce? I don't know. I don't remember. at all really. It's hard to, I don't know.

I literally don't know, and I don't know whether that's because I've like blanked it out. I do know that when my mum and dad's my dad was the one to leave the home, which usually that is the way. You stay with your mom, not all the time, but he moved out and

my dad was a very different person back then to what he is now. Let me like say this. Now my dad is my best friend. I worship the ground. my dad walks on. He is like, we call every day. He speaks to me every day on the phone. I call him every day. We go on multiple holidays together. He is the one I want to spend my time. I adore him. We're like the same person. But he knows and he knows this because I have spoke about him in my

book and he actually texts me. He was like, am I going to find this hard to read? I was like, possibly. And he called me and he said, because I text him a bit of an insert of what was in the book about him and he went that was really hard to read and he was like that hurt and I was like I know and he went I don't really remember being like that and I was like well I don't particularly until I started unpacking it and I was like you weren't a bad dad

you're an amazing dad but what you went through was also difficult too you're still a human just because you're older than me doesn't mean that you didn't find what happened hard when they had the divorce and then my teenage years it was a very fleeting relationship I saw him and we had a great time we were together

but he was in and out of different properties like renting different places and never really had a bedroom at his house I would just I remember one place that he lived it was a flat and there was no other bedroom so I just we just used to put the settee cushions down the side of his bed and I just used to sleep on that

and it's that's not a bad thing I don't feel sorry for myself but it's not the childhood you imagine yourself to have when you grow up I wouldn't want that for my children. I want us to be a family unit, but at the same time I respect their wishes that they no longer wanted to be together.

But I guess that kind of moving around a lot, having my dad's a bit of a looker, you know? He's a bit of a geezer, so he had a few different partners that I met. And he won't mind me saying, but that was obviously quite hard because after my mum, who's like my absolute angel,

idol to see other women in place of her is difficult. Of course it is. But because my dad was a bit of a one, you know, it was, yeah. Yes. Yes. So it's interesting. You can recollect, so you can recollect some of what happened. Yeah. But you don't want to. I would imagine because it was painful for you. I think it was painful. It was painful, but I find it hard to like victimize myself for that because I think so many people go through divorce and have to deal with it. So why should I feel any kind of way about just the decision that they had to make that was best for them and ultimately best for us? Like, it's nice to speak to you about it and I knew coming here today I was actually like bricking it because I was like, I'm going to have to talk about stuff

that's really hard for me to speak about. But it's not something I like to do because I like to look at people how they are now and who they've changed into and how positive they are and how my relationships are now. But if we are starting to unpick why I ended up, the way I ended up, then yeah. Yeah. You know what's so, this is what's so interesting to me is when I came to the UK about nine years ago, I noticed this, I heard the term, what is it, is it stiff upper lip? Is that what is?

That's what is? Yeah, it is. Okay, okay. I heard this term and I was like, what is this really... Is that not the thing in America? No. Not at all. Very British.

Yes, yes. In America, you sit there. People are like, let me tell you how I feel. Like, you know, even ask me the question. Let me tell you this is going to happen later. Right, but I notice is that it was, what I respected was the reason for the stiff upper lip. It was exactly what you said. It was, look, I don't, I don't want anyone to think I'm a very thing.

victim, right? I don't want that. But what I've understood now living here, this is now my home, this is now my country, right, is that in order to heal, you have to be able to identify the thing that you are trying to heal from. So it's important to go back and revisit, even to go back and relive the emotion, which is why I love these conversations so much. And when you can go back and get perspective, you can really heal from it. And on that note, can I share something with you? Yes. I love how they're like in these little Mary Poppins cushion you've got going on.

What are you going to pull out next? Okay. On this zone of what we're talking about, I would love for you to read this. Okay. All right. This is a very, very special gift. Oh, my God. What is this?

If you could read this for me, if you can open that up and read it for me, out loud. Oh my God. Am I going to have any makeup left by the end of this? I don't think I am. I'm scared to open it. Don't be. God, is it long? Oh, Jesus.

It is beautiful. Oh, no, I can't read that. I don't think I can. If you need help, I can. To my princess. So a book, eh? now when we play charades I can do TV show book

and now only require you to do a film and a play and we have the full set lol why do they always say lol it goes without saying I have said so many times how proud can a dad be our keeper overflows did he write this or did he chat GPT

I am overjoyed with your success in all areas of your life as a wife mother TV star or theress and especially for me as a daughter who has brought me much joy, pride and love. I'm excited to read your book. However, this short paragraph who showed me, shamed me and I'm sad for you and embarrassed to me. It will not be many fathers he'll have the opportunity to read their daughter's thoughts in a book, and nor maybe will their

daughter ever reveal their feelings in such a way. I'm grateful for the opportunity to know and understand an area of your life where I did not know, and in my eyes, I failed you. I'm sorry I was not the dad I thought I was and I am even more sorry I was not the dad you needed or thought I should have been but as you know and we know together how to deal with pain and mistakes and we both never dwell on a past that cannot be changed but only strive to improve and better the present and future I hope I have done that and now you feel I am the dad-a is what I call him and grandparent you would want me to be I know I believe I am and it will continue to be such an important part of the rest of my life to be there by you, Alex's and my grandchildren's side.

I have a relationship now with you that I dreamed of, a love and friendship and bond between us that will last me into eternity. Your support, strength and time you gave me during my illness when I seriously thought I might leave you, drove me on. I felt surprised by your success, drive determination, attitude or fame, your empathy and comedian-like ability to change to any given situation. That especially sets you apart from many. Your continued success in all aspects of your life is because of your love, selflessness, generosity and desire to succeed.

Sorry. Oh no, remember the rule. Which will ensure your light will always burn bright. How much I love you breaks my heart. Part of my soul will be with you always, my princess, my diamond in the sky, my star, love, dada. Jesus Christ. How did you... How? How? How did you...

How was that here? What'd you think? I don't know. Like, I love him so much. I never ever want him to feel like he wasn't enough because he always was enough. And I don't want him to think that anything I went through was because of him or his decisions.

It's just a natural part of life to, like, go through certain things. I just think I mean my mum had a conversation I remember it sticks in my head so well that she believes that some people have like a predisposition of suffering from mental health issues

and I genuinely believe her I don't think my surroundings are what causes me to act the way I do I think there is something in me that causes me to act the way I do Okay. And I never want my parents to think they ever felt me and I don't want him to think he ever felt me

because he didn't. And he's the reason I am how I am. I am strong and there's a reason I run back to him for every mistake I make. Yes. I remember when I was in Barcelona I made a very big mistake. He was the first person I called.

And it was probably not something you talked to your dad about but I still called him. And I call him every day. But that like, I'm going to like, hold on to that for the rest of my life. Because he had a heart attack recently. And just makes you realise, isn't it?

I think it's really, I said to Alex when he had it, I was like, it's hard because you view your parents as these people that are meant to know everything, and get everything right, they're the people you look up to and you think they're invincible, nothing's ever going to happen to them. And then one day they'll get ill. It really put it into perspective how much time we have to make up.

because of what we lost during that period. You know what I love, and I'll hold on to that for you, and I promise to give it back to you. I'm going to give you all these. That was not on my bingo card at all. It was such a beautiful letter, and what I love is how he loves you. Yeah, he idolizes me.

It is so clear. And I love how you both place so much importance on these moments now with each other. For sure. So I love that. In those early years, so you said that it's hard, 11, 12, 13, you know, it's hard. I know they were challenging for you. Was that the first time that you began to become aware of your mental health? Was it that age or was it a little bit older?

It's hard to kind of pinpoint it. I remember being fine. Like I used to dance. I danced from when I was three, four. Ballet, tap, jazz, exams. It was a complete addiction and I absolutely loved it. And I remember being really confident during those years and having no issue till about maybe 11.

And I guess that is where like the hormones are raging, like you're changing and that's where you start to question yourself. And also I feel like the 2000s were a really tricky place for body image. And I know now is, but in that era of like, I remember picking up, like, magazines that would have, like, things plastered on them about being a beached whale. And, like, this girl would probably be a size 10 or a size 12. And then there would be just, like, so many comments. And I was watching America's Next Top Model constantly. very like into all of that.

So I think you start to look at yourself very differently around that age. And I don't think that was what caused me to then have disordered eating. I don't actually know why. Maybe you can help me. I think I remember that starting when I went into secondary school. Okay. I remember the start of year seven, six months probably, five months I could go and get myself. food in school and I'd eat normally and something happened I have no idea what but I started to have this

like immense feeling of shame where I didn't want people to see me eating and I couldn't go and get myself food it was so particular and I'd never heard of anyone doing it I've I've only spoken to one person since that has done the same thing as me I'm sure there's plenty more out there but I would never want anyone to see me putting food on my plate I would never want anyone to see me eating I ended up not really eating in school I would eat at home and I'd go the whole day without eating because I couldn't bear for people to see me

queue up for food like the thought of someone looking at me in the queue to go get food gave me immense anxiety and I just I just could not do it and that lasted throughout the whole of school until until I went to Love Island Oh my God. So multiple years. Yeah, probably the whole of my teenage years really. I wouldn't want to eat in front of people other than like my very close friends at home, my family, even would never go on any dates to like dinner.

I couldn't eat in front of like new like boys or anything. And I remember when we was in sixth form, they used to do these pots of like pasta beans and cheese. Yes. Have you ever tried pasta beans and cheese? No. 10 out of 10. Oh really? 10 10.

10. And I would want one so bad. I was so hungry. Like I wanted to eat. I was so, so hungry, but I couldn't go. I could not physically go and do it. And sometimes if I really was feeling awful, like awful, awful hungry, I'd make my friend go and get it for me.

And then I'd kind of eat it. And it would be okay if I could pick it out with my hand. And it would be okay if I could tear off apart. But I could never put a fork in my mouth. so particular. Were your parents aware? No. They don't know now.

They will find out. And I guess that's, you know, I've been so nervous for my book to come out because some of the stuff in there, they don't know. But it's kind of like ripping the Band-Aid off. It is. It is. So when you reflect back, you had a, you know, there was an eating disorder. Some sort of disorder eating. Right.

Yeah. That was happening. And you said this was right around, was it 12, 13? Okay. What else was happening for you? I remember, I think I was about 14, 15. That's when I really started to struggle with like the anxiety side of things. And I guess depression was kind of creeping in because that was my first experience of self-harm.

was probably that young, 15. And I think that's where I had so much emotion that I had no idea how to deal with. I guess from everything that had happened prior, it was all building up and I had no clue what to do with it, the eating thing.

And I would literally be in school and every day, every week, I would take myself into the toilets and sit in the toilet at school and cry and just sit there. I would find an excuse to get out of class and just go sit on my own in the loo on the floor. Every day.

You were crying every day. Pretty much for a period and then it kind of subsided and then I think that's when like I experienced self-harm and I can't go too much into it because I genuinely just don't want to talk about it. But I acknowledge that it happened and I do talk about it in my book because for some reason writing it down

is very different to saying it out. out loud. So that's my first step is writing about it and talking about it and trying to get rid of some of the shame that surrounds it. But I still have a hard time. With acknowledging that I did that. Without talking about the details of the self-harm, when you reflect back, especially through writing about it, do you understand what motivated you to do it? I've been to a lot of therapy since because self-harm has been peppered through. until most recently a few years ago, which is the most hard, the hardest thing to admit,

because everyone, again, thinks I've got my shit together. But it was only a few years ago that I re-experienced self-harm. It was the amount of emotion I had that I couldn't deal with that then felt suddenly released through an act that is horrendous.

It's complete disrespect for your own self. Yeah. You know, so I'm glad that you almost demystified that when I say that is self-harm. I believe a lot of people believe that self-harm is about exhibiting something or gaining attention. But most cases that I read about, it's about emotional regulation. Most disordered eating is around emotional regulation. And this is this common theme that you see in your life early on.

You even say it. I try to control my emotion. You said it multiple times already, right? You could see how you were enacting everything that you could to regulate these emotions that were going, that they were going everywhere. Especially then, therapy wasn't as spoken about it as it is now. I would never have gone into therapy at 14 or 15. If I did, I probably would have gotten over this a lot quicker.

But it wasn't really, like, readily available. It wasn't spoken about. It wasn't the norm. And now I feel like therapy has spoken about a lot more. It's not as readily available as it should be. This is true. But that has allowed me to find ways to cope that are proper. Yes.

And correct. And I think even just you saying it that this was happening to you as a 13, 14, 15 year old is important because other 13, 14, 15 year olds will know they're not alone. Yeah. You said this, you were self-harming just up to a few years ago. So others that are in their 20s, in their 30s, will know they're not alone. Here are some statistics that I find really, really interesting is almost one-third of 17 to 24-year-old. So that's 32 percent have self-harmed or attempted to self-harm at some point, right?

That's according to young minds. Now, this is the one that blows me away. this rises to almost 70% of young people with a probable mental health condition have self-harmed or attempted to self-harm. And then incidents of self-harm in the UK have steadily increased from 2000, which was only 3.8% compared to 10% today. And then also in an NHS survey, 83% of people who had self-harmed reported doing so, to relieve unpleasant feelings of anger, tension, anxiety, or depression. So you see how prevalent this is, but yet we're not talking about it. Do you know how, like, I can't even comprehend that because I genuinely feel, like, until you talk about something, you feel so alone.

I feel like, oh my God, I'm weird. I have so much shame. I'm the only person that does this. and for you to even say those statistics has validated me. And that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to validate that it's not just you. Like, I've been through this. There's plenty of other people.

So the fact that you've said that is like an epiphany for me. And I'm part of it. Yeah. And you weren't alone. No. So this is the reason why I go back to this stiff upper lip situation of what. It's not good for us. It's not good.

People are. the British public. That's what I'm saying. It's not good. We need to be talking about this. Have you noticed how when life gets busy, our decision making takes a hit to? You lose your ability to make everyday choices like what to have for lunch. Before you know it, you're inhaling a family size bag of snacks while questioning who you really are.

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feels impossible. Try them yourself with code WNTT for 10 pounds off at UK.hul.com slash WNTT. Hey there, I just want to say thank you for choosing we need to talk. Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life and I want to continue to share it with you. So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast. So now by the time you're leaving school, what are you thinking pathwise? Are you thinking what you're laughing? Oh really? Yeah. I, not a lot to be honest. I think I didn't really have any one hope and dream I had was to be a model. But I was brutally hit back and told that, you know, only if you get your tits out will you ever be a model. Okay. So whoever said that to me?

There you go. Tone. Take a look now. Didn't get them out. I may have gone on Love Island, but not quite the same. You're partly right. But no, I hear you though. So modeling, though, so this is another thing is that I didn't realize this term glamour modeling.

I always thought modeling was all, was, well, I guess there's a wide category of... It's all sorts, isn't there? Commercial, catwalk, glamour. Right. So what type of model were you interested in? interested in? I don't. I don't.

I think deep down, I knew that I wasn't really able to do any of it at that point. I think now we're striving towards a much more inclusive way of modelling with brands. But back then, if you weren't stick thin, no boobs, cheekbones, tall, you wouldn't be doing anything other than commercial modelling. Possibly. But I was always too curvy, too bigger boobs, not the right look. just wasn't considered able to be a model. And I think that did hurt me a bit. I think that took a bit of like, oh, to the chest.

But that's all I really wanted to do. And it's funny now what I've ended up doing. You look at that? Yeah. Look at that. Yeah. So then in your time prior to Love Island, what was life like for you? I did all sorts.

So I moved out on my own. I had a really crappy relationship. I don't want to give him too much air time though because he didn't deserve it but he was just grade A asshole Okay he was bad How if I can ask how I mean how

Because it sounds like it was toxic It was the kind of relationship that I heard a lot about When I was my age A lot of us girls went through it Being told what to wear You can't do that You can't do this, you can't go there A lot of like

I mean my friends noticed that I was completely different with him. They almost didn't disown me because they never would but they were like we just don't recognize you and it lasted like a year and then I found out everything like he left me like he was meant to come pick me up one time at a pub on Christmas Eve and he left me and then I got home to the doorstep and I had no key so I was sat on the doorstep at 1 a.m. Christmas like waiting for my boyfriend to come and get me like it was just pure not care. He just did like, it was pure neglect, really, of like a relationship. It was a relationship.

So that definitely affected me. So when I look back at that period of your life, wow, right? 21 kind of floating from job to job, you've just moved out of your house. You're in what you're calling a toxic relationship. You're still struggling with anxiety and depression. Did you say you were on medication at this point? Yeah, flitting. I got put on beta blockers when I first.

first found out about everything that he did. And I, we split up. And then that's when my eating got really bad. That was around 20, 21, because that's when I moved out. A lot happened in that short space of time. And can I ask you too, those beta blockers, do they work for you? No. Horrible they were awful for me.

I think because I also had anxiety, for some reason they made my chest like flutter. And I always felt like really on edge. So then I got put on antidepressants, and that worked for me at the time. I wasn't eating. I didn't eat properly for about three months. I lost like two stone in a matter of weeks. I was really not good. And then that was when I was living at his,

so I was stuck at his house with his mum and him. And she even said, she even at times said to me, like, what are you doing? Really? Yeah. She was like, and I distinctly remember when I came back to pick up my mattress, because that was my fucking mattress. I was getting that back. I went back to pick up my mattress. She said to me, please don't ever come back to him.

Wow. And that was his own mother. Wow, the mother was telling you to run. Yeah. So that kind of like really, I don't know, I think coming from her, I was like, Jesus, that's hit me a bit. And this is a massive. period because then it's 22 that you enter Love Island. Yeah.

It was only six months after I moved into my first flat on my own that I then went to Love Island. That's incredible. Yeah. All right, let's talk about Love Island. Yes. Okay. So one is I've become a chief researcher of Love Island. That's my baby right there.

Chief researcher. Love Island, UK. Love Island US now, which is just massive, right? And I am so happy to talk to you because I feel as if you are a part of what I would call the OG class of Love Island. Yeah, I'd say the same. And perhaps, and I don't know if you'd say this too, perhaps you're part of the first group that became really famous. off of Love Island. Yeah.

Right. So that means to me, one is, would you agree with that? Yeah, I think it was the breakout series. Okay, okay. And you were a breakout of the breakout series. Come on, own it, Liv. You're a breakout of the breakout.

I still find it. I'm always like, yeah, clap for yourself. When I try and do it, I'm like, ooh. Yeah. My manager's always like, you were literally like the pioneer. You were the first one this morning. one presenting you were the first one to do this and I'm like yeah but everyone's doing more now it's hard to even comprehend I think because when we went into Love Island like you say it was a

breakout series so when we went in it was very much like this is just a bit of fun this is gonna be good because I watched it I actually watched it with that terrible X I had and I thought oh do you know what I'm gonna go on that I'm gonna show it like and I did weirdly and was that was that the motivation was you were scorned. You're a scorn lover. You know it was wildest? Mora Higgins said the same thing. We just go over like that. Watch us do this. Oh my gosh. I teach you. I'm not going to key your car. I'm going to go on TV. So really, that was your top motivation. It was part of the motivation because I remember watching it and thinking, oh my God, these women look so good. They're so confident. Like how much fun is that just to go to a villa,

be around a pool, flirt with boys. Like, I didn't have any of that in me. I had none of that in my locker at all. So I was like, oh, God, that would be really cool. And then we split up. And then I saw the application. I was like, you know what? I was going to do it.

I mean, I was so scared. And I had none of the confidence that I probably showed. It just faked it. Just faked it. Faked it. Faked it. Faked it. So is it playing out your mind, though,

your battles with depression and anxiety? and is any of that playing out or no? So before I went into Love Island, I kind of had a bit more of a handle on things. Like I said, I was living in my own flat. There was times where I was very, very down. But at that point, I'd got on my up again. So I was okay again.

I was very rollercoaster person. Okay. Because I guess I kept trying to get my emotions in check. They'd get in check. Then I'd be all right and then I'd come back. And at that time, that went into Love Island, I was all right as a person, guys. Probably still dealing with it deep down.

And I still had my disordered eating where I couldn't eat in front of people. And when I went into Love Island, it was like exposure therapy. Love Island pretty much cured me as a person in that respect for my disordered eating. I didn't come out with it. Okay. Because you were forced to have, in order to eat, you had to eat in front of people. Yeah, we had lunchtime and dinner time where all the food was laid out on the table. brain in mind I'm in there for six weeks

so I don't have a choice I won't eat unless I just get the hell on with it and I remember sitting at the table and being like I can't do it so for the first couple of weeks I would get other people to fill my plate for me I'd always choose the food that not necessarily I liked but was nearer someone else so they put it on a plate and then I'd just eat that in private I ate at the table so that was already something I was oh my god this is like what am I doing how am I doing this but it was still the

the putting on the plate thing so I always thought to myself these people must think I'm such a princess because I won't serve my own food and no one knows why and then I think it just got to a point where I did it I sat there and I put food on my own plate

because I had to because I couldn't keep asking other people to fill my plate up so I just did it and then once I did it once I did it again and then again and again, and then it wasn't even a thing. It literally changed my life. Just from being, I don't know whether it was the age or the people or maybe the confidence I got from realizing that I just walked into a TV show, stood on my own and did this. I can plate myself up some food.

Yes. It kind of was a whole realisation in Love Island. And I think that's why Love Island will always be so in my heart. because I do feel like they changed my life, not only my career, I met the love of my life, my disordered eating went from being there. So for me, personally, they just hold a very special place

because it was a turnaround point for me. No, it was, I mean, I think that is something that most people, I should say most, but a lot of people that I talk to will reflect on their time on a reality series and have an issue with it, right? But I think that's incredible that you look back and say,

no, this changed my life for the better. When you look at what was happening season two of Love Island. So when I look at what was happening, I find it to be really interesting compared to today because a lot of alcohol was flowing. The cigarettes was. cigarettes you could smoke.

I didn't smoke when I went in there. Oh really? You started? Yeah, I didn't smoke. Which I had always like on and off smoked but I wasn't smoking at that period. But because I think all the chats went down in the smoking area. It was just a natural. I think they made the right decision by going, look, guys, let's not.

Because you did just kind of do it because everyone else was in there and you were having a chat and all of the drama would be in the smoking area. Okay. There was a lot of sex happening on camera. That's what I mean about the glamour modeling woman. She was kind of right. She kind of foreshadowed that. Really? Because, look, can we talk about it?

Because you technically had sex on camera, but it wasn't aired, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah, because I, yeah. So there's, back then, there's, like, they would show quite a bit. And it was, it's not really like that now, not at all. But I think, again, because it was, like, them early days. Like, do you remember? Towie, Geordie Shaw, like, X on the beach, it was all very full on.

Yes. And Love Island was no different, whereas now it's completely different. But if me and Alex had this theory where if you just took all your clothes off and had sex on top of the covers, they can't air it. Luckily, we were right. We would have been, you know, it would have been a different story if it was wrong, but they would only show so much. So we thought we were pretty clever, yeah All right. So can I ask though in that

What was the reason for not just Having sex under the covers And then having them air it? Oh, we did do that too. She's 23, let her live. That's true. I mean, you were having a good time. Yeah, I, this is the thing in Love Island.

Like people always say to me, do you regret that? And I can't say I do because I was 22. I'd gone through all of that throughout my teenage years. a rubbish relationship to get in there and literally like fall in love with someone head over heels. What do you do when you really love someone? You can't, and you're 22, you're having the best time. You can't help yourself.

It is what it is. It is what it is. So do you believe you fell in love on Love Island? Yeah, for sure. Okay. Do you believe Alex fell in love on Love Island? Yeah. he told me he loved me on the final privately.

I never heard it. But apparently he always tells his story. He's told it a few times. But it was the we'd got, so the start of our relationship, we did not want to fall in love. Like I went in there, scorned lover, as you say. Like, didn't want that.

I wanted to have fun. I wanted to just be myself. I just wanted a different situation. And he came in, to be Jack the lad. And we both, at the minute we started speaking to each other, I think we knew that there was something really special. But we were in denial, such denial, because this wasn't a place that you found love.

Reality TV was not a place that you found love and it was all rainbows, unicorns. So we kind of fought it and we were like, it's a hollow romance, let's just deal with how it is, like we'll just try and be like friends with benefits vibes. did not happen obviously. I'm sorry, he was two kids married and years later. But we really tried to combat it at first. I think because we're both a bit scared. He'd had bad relationships prior.

He'd had someone to treat him like crap. Look at that. Look at that. Did you, were you considering or concerned with what you perceive the public was viewing or thinking about you and Alex together? Not at the time. When I was in there, I didn't really... I think I was concerned that he didn't like me.

I think I thought... Because he was such a nice guy and he looks like he's been carved by the gods. Where I'd been so mistreated in my past, I was like, how quite possibly could someone like this even like me? So I didn't believe it then. And I think that contributed to just all the... arguments and stuff we had in there

and then I thought in turn the public would also think I was not good enough for him. That's what you thought well you were in Love Island. Which then actually became true because everyone told me that when I come out that I was not good enough and I was punching and

that was hard. Oh my gosh. And that that we have to talk about can I show you something first that I think may put a smile on your face. All right, ready? All right, here we go, ready?

The letter was, I can't think it's any worth it. Oh, no, no, this is good. Ready? What is happening in this? Oh, it's me. Look at that. I think her, I think she's called Renesme, actually. Alex was a big fan of Twilight, so he was like, I'm going to call this baby Renesme.

Okay. Baby Renesme. Did you, I mean, think about this, in that moment, what do you think the chances, and in that moment, right? What do you think the chances were that you were going to marry that guy and have not one but two of those babies with them? Well, for one, I dropped the baby in the pool in Love Island. So that thought me being a mother was like, no, she and I was a nightmare. I was like, what is this thing? And secondly, I just don't think I ever truly believe that he, like, loved me, even probably until he proposed. No. You didn't think.

believe that he loved me. You didn't think so? No. You didn't believe you were good enough for him. No. Partly because of, well, I'd say 80% because of the way I'd been treated and the way I'd treated myself prior. And 20% because when I come out, I was inundated with comments that he can do better

than me. Like, I'm not good enough for him. Your punching was the main one. And that... is probably one of the hardest things. I'm not saying my job is hard. It's not. It's mentally quite taxing sometimes

because when people in the public start tapping into the things that you already tap into for yourself, it's quite difficult. Yes. They just reinstated everything that... This was a big... Truly, this is a big shock to me

is when I'm doing this research for you coming in. I had not seen Love Island 2016. I was in the States, you know, hanging out in the US. You haven't watched it recently. But in looking at the coverage, the news coverage when you got out, that's exactly what it was. And then I look at a photo.

Can I hold this photo? I look at this photo. How do you think she looks? Well, she's got better boobs than I have now. I'm speaking to children, that's for sure. Yeah, but honestly, how do you think she looks? I don't know, it's normal, I guess. Oh, she looks normal.

Yeah. All right. Like normal. person. She looks like a normal person. Does she look beautiful? I don't know. That's interesting. You don't think she looks beautiful. Because how does he look? How does he look? Hands him as always. So he looks beautiful, right? But that's interesting that when you look at this photo, you don't see what I see and what so many people see. Because I looked at this photo, oh my God, She's beautiful.

Yeah, he's a good-looking guy. She's beautiful. This makes all the sense in the world to me. Oh, it just didn't make sense to anyone else. It really, really got to me that. Let's talk about that because when you come off of Love Island, it is now being seen by, I think, on average, over 1.4 million people per episode. it's now the most talked about show in the UK.

I would imagine that because the first series wasn't as popular, the producers couldn't prep you. They didn't know what the response was going to be like when you got out. But what was it like in terms of where you followed, were there lots of articles? What was happening? So obviously, when I went in, like I said, when we first started talking,

I wasn't even in the scene in Essex, because Tawi was prevalent at that point. I didn't know anyone from Tawi, even though everyone thinks everyone knows someone from Tawi. I didn't at that point. I do now, and they're a lovely. But I didn't, and I wasn't in the scene, and my family were scared for me going in.

We're not that kind of like, I never wanted to be famous. It wasn't that. It was just a change of scenery for me. So to come out, And it felt to you overnight that your life completely did a 180. We got to the airport and there was tens of thousands of people like waiting for you, wanting pictures of you, filming you, like screaming your name, like,

how do you even comprehend that? From being just you and like normal, I guess, to that is something you can never prepare. no matter what someone would have said to me the producers were like yeah your life could change they prepared just much they could but even they I don't think realise that it would do that overnight and

remember my inbox we had thousands of messages in our inbox brands wanting to work with us management trying to get in contact with us my mum was not sleeping every night because she was having people email her about wanting to want to manage Olivia I can get her this I can give her this money but only mind I'd never had

money and I'd just just left my government-funded flat to go into Love Island to now coming out and my mom's getting offers of like thousands of thousands of pounds. How are you going to react to that? How are you meant to like, I mean it's incredible, but it's a lot. And I'm just so glad I had Alex by my side because we used to speak about it for hours and hours. Like after the people had gone home and we were just in bed. Like he was my absolute rock still is. It was your safe space.

So then when you first see these articles, Yeah, so the article. Come out. Yeah. What, what, can you even take me back to the very first article that you recall? What was the headline? What did it say? A lot of them were, a lot of them were about, like, people commenting about my appearance and comparing it with Alex and saying that, like, we wouldn't last.

And is this couple going to last? Are they going to cheat? Like, it was all very just. just not very nice. It wasn't necessarily the articles. It was more the comments. It was more... Because my Instagram hadn't been that kind of place.

And I think when we come out, we had like 300,000 followers. We're now... I now have nearly 3 million. So it was growing and growing, but the immediate attention on how we looked as a couple was what got me.

And I didn't expect it because I just never had anyone comment on that before. never had anyone on sale never from an outside perspective never had so many people tell me that I was not good enough for someone that I was with even though I knew he loved me to have so many

and he was getting sent like naked pictures like on Snapchat and we used to I mean we used to laugh about it like he used to show me and he'd like I got another pair of boobs in my Snapchat and we'd like... We were like so comfortable but when you're on your own at night in the choir that's when the thing

things start to get to you. And it just really ate away every day. There'd be another one. It wasn't just like, oh, it happened for a few days. It would be every day. Like, I'd have an inbox privately, like, why is Alex with you? You're nothing special. Or how are you with someone like, Alex?

It doesn't make sense. Did you believe it? Yeah. Yeah. It's probably contributed to, again, like the eating thing came back, not in the same way, but I just wouldn't eat. Because it's just the stress, isn't it? So I then lost loads of weight.

And in the midst of me being a size six not eating, I was being called fat on articles. I was like all of that. Like, it just didn't make sense. What was happening between you and Alex that kept you together, right? Because this is such a stressful period. you have you're being inundated from people saying hey he's going to leave you he's already cheating that kind of thing but what was some of that work that was happening because you and Alex

became one of there were what two couples that came from season two that are still together to this day it's a rarity for a couple to go on a reality TV show or for two people to meet on reality TV show stay together so what was the work that was happening behind closed doors that we didn't see. That was all now. That was all Alex, pretty much. I'm not one to not give myself props, but he held it down for us

because he would take and take and take the shit that I gave him. That man is something else. And I don't tell him enough, but he literally held it down for us because he would always defend himself, he would face-time when if he was out, he would text me constantly, he would call me, he did everything physically possible

for me to feel okay. Meanwhile, I'm just like screaming in the mail. Like, ah, what is coming on? Like, he was the solid rock. Like, that guy has a heart of gold. And, like, now, obviously, we're 10 years into a relationship so I'm like, we annoy the hell out of each other. But you have to give him his props.

He stood by my side and did all the work. Right. Why do you think he did that? that? He just, I admit it now he literally worshipped me and I don't know why. Why? Yes, I was going to ask you what, why do you, what do you think it is? What do you think it is about you that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, don't know. I don't know. We're just, I feel like we're in anomaly. I feel like we were just meant to be together. It was just the right time, the right place. I do. I do. I do. I

feel like in Love Island we had these challenges that actually then set us up. A lot of people always talk to me and they're like, oh my God, Love Island was so harsh for the challenges you went through. I'm like, they were like real life challenges but in a controlled environment and actually they helped us work each other out and respect each other in a different way. But he has, he's so impatient on day-to-day tasks, but he's so patient with me. And I don't know, I think we just compliment each other. And I, I know he knows I've got he's back and I know he's got mine. Yeah, I know it.

Can I also talk about one other thing about Love Island? I have to show you. It's another surprise. Oh, God. You're ready? No. Ever, not without what you've been putting out. Do you not like these surprises, live?

No, I do. I just, I'm not in control. Oh, that's what it is. That's what it is. All right, so ready. I have a surprise. I'm going to hold this for you. Okay.

And I want you to just. Just watch and listen. Oh no, I'm too scared. Are you ready? Right, my darling and love you. I have been thinking about how to send this message to you, but it's physically impossible to put into words how much I love you and adore you and how much you are part of me.

I just, I don't think it's possible for people to understand that you're literally a part of my soul. Like, you are my wife, you're my, I don't know, you're just, you're just, you're just, just like you were my soul sister. It was from the moment that I walked into that Love Island villa and I became your third girl, sorry Alex, I stole you. She's about to share. I mean, probably my favourite memory.

Remember when, um, on the bed. No, is she gonna talk about, oh, when she was talking about the Flucky. Thinking, we've completely forgot there was no cameras. And I mean, you just had a moment. And then we were walking the room. We're hiding from people walking into the room.

that story? No, that's a funny one. I've just never loved someone more and I've never actually looked up to anyone so much as a couple as you and Alex. You are so special to me, both of you, you and your amazing family and I love you so much and I'm so sorry that you were stuck with me for the rest of your life but you can never get rid of me because I literally adore you more than life itself. She's always abroad. She's always abroad this woman. Yeah, I was going to say, Is she like? It's so funny because like we were so, we are still so close. She was my bridesmaid.

She is the only friend really that I've kept from Love Island except for my husband. And this is, so everyone knows this is. Tina. From, and you met her on Love Island season two. That was your first time meeting her. Yeah. And we just clipped. She's like, she's just a little ball of like,

buzzy energy happiness. Like, you know, and you can feel someone's aura, she just she's so I don't know, she's so pure and people don't see her the way I see her and I think she says the same about me. But she become our little third wheel,

like, because she never kind of found anyone in there. She was always with me and Alex, but we just immediately got on. And even though our lives are completely different, like she's always a friend. I message her. I'm like, oh, do you want to up. She's like, I'm in Australia. I'm in Australia. I should have Bether at the minute.

But I adore the bones of her and she's one of them friends. It doesn't matter where you are. It doesn't matter what point of life you're at. Like we're at complete ends of the spectrum and we just still adore each other. Yes, I could see it. I could see it. I could see it. I mean, I could see that you had, you have a social circle that came from Love Island. Obviously, you have a husband that came from Love Island. And then you have a whole community of peace. who fell in love with you, you know. So clearly there were hard times that came as a result of Love Island, but then there was lots of ups. Oh my God, so many.

When you think about the moments that were just surreal that you can't believe you had an opportunity to do or people you were able to meet, what stands out to you? Career-wise, it's just the amount of brands, like, so Quiz is a high street brand. I was the first person to get a deal. with a high street brand ever. Wow, look at that.

So that's, it doesn't quite, again, it doesn't comprehend. And also, I was the first one to come present on this morning. And then I got my own show, Second Chance Dresses, which I presented, which I was the first person to do that. So I guess those kind of moments are crazy. And actually, Second Chance Dresses got, funnily, New York, got commissioned by Netflix to go and, start up in New York.

And I was about to go and present the second series. It was all sorted. I got my visa. We had the boutique, met all the contributors. It was ready to go. Flight was booked and COVID hit. So I was about to be a presenter on a show on Netflix. Oh my goodness.

And yeah, COVID hit and it never happened. Yeah. But even getting to that, I don't feel upset about it because even getting to that point, I'm like, we had it. It wasn't my fault. I lost it. I had it and that was incredible. But my life would have been so different. Me and Alex would have had to move to New York. Wow. Okay. And you were thinking about moving. We were. We were. We were getting an apartment in New York. Alex was going to come out and be out for most of the time, but then come back. Would have I had had kids? I don't know. Because my life just would have gone in a completely different trajectory, which the butterfly effect is like. Yeah. It's a real. It's a real thing. Wow. So that was one of the most incredible things. Even though, you know, didn't happen. But aside from that, just the amount of people I've been able to meet

and connect with that I never would have been able to. So we did a trek. You heard of Copperfield. He was a charity. Oh, yes. And I'm familiar. You and Alex went together. Yeah. And we trek to mountains for three days with cancer survivors, people in remission, people that weren't in remission, women that were just the most inspired. I would struggle being getting up a mountain and then I would be next to someone who was in remission and I was like, get the hell up that mountain.

I've met so many people from different walks of life that have taught me so much that I never would have been able to learn if I hadn't have been on that show and done what we did. I mean, clearly, Love Island had changed the trajectory of your life. And you said, So when you came off of Love Island, though, something that is just percolating for me is you didn't believe that Alex loved you. And it wasn't until you said he proposed.

That was part of the reason he did it. Really? So, yeah, tell me about this. So I don't actually know. So it was six months after we came out of Love Island. So we'd only known each other six months and he proposed. So it was very, like, quick. That's quick.

Yeah. And I understand now why people were. like you're doing that for show because that isn't quite quick off a reality show like come on people are not going to believe that because I didn't even believe it so how can I expect anyone else to but he knew I was really really struggling with believing that because of after all the comments and even just my self-confidence issues and disbelief in myself I think he thought how the hell am I going to get this woman to believe me he was like right well I got proposed to her so he bought the I think only a few months after Love Island

and then we were going he was going to propose the year after when we went to Italy but we planned a last minute trip to New York and he thought well that's the perfect opportunity so he just did it there perfect place to do it he genuinely was like I partly did it

because you need to take me seriously like a woman what more can I do it's at your kind of like at his wits end of how do you prove to someone that really doesn't want to listen. Wow.

I think that finally, yeah, finally hit me. That did it. So can I ask then is you two get married? Is this whole rumor about you spending 20,000 on flowers? It's a rumor. It's a rumor. Is that? Did you really spend 20,000?

Yeah, it was really stupid. I think it was 15 in the end. Okay. So it's fine. 15 is fun. It's fine. So this was a big wedding. This was a pricey wedding.

It was a big wedding. But at that point, we were like, what you'd probably consider like new money. Like we'd never experienced money before. To have Love Island, change your life. And then you earn this. You don't know what to do with it and you're a bit stupid. We're young.

So yeah, the flowers, the wedding. It was all very dramatic. You just went well. But for two people that were 20, I was 23, 24 when I got married. And I didn't actually have that much money. I'd like just got on this bit of money. And I was like, woo. Let's go. Let's spend it on a wedding.

It was a very, now I look back. I'm like, oh, I'll never do that now. Yeah. Like, you're lucky if I buy flowers from Tesco. Like, I, we very quickly learned that's not how to do things. And then as we grew up a little bit and we had our little mad moment with money, we started investing in property and I feel like I don't even recognize that girl. Like I would never be so frivolous.

Right. So can I say that wedding, right? So I went through the roster, all the people who were at were at the wedding. And I requested a letter from one person from that letter, I mean from that wedding. And I have it right here. Oh, not a letter. I've another letter. Oh, God, who's this from?

This is a letter from someone who was at that wedding who has something to tell you. Is it okay? I think so? If you could... Do I need to have a tissue? If you could read that. Store with my tissues. Oh, wait, you have a lot of tissues down there.

I know, I'm sorry. No, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, yeah, sorry. I mean... That's so British. I'm sorry for being sorry. I apologize to a chair I walked into the other day. It's ridiculous behavior.

I don't... Who's that? You have to read it. You have to read it before you figure it out. Olivia, where do I even start? You really are a special human. You are strong, selfless, caring, independent and literally the most beautiful women. I could go on, but I'll be here all day. When we met, I think I always knew. Oh, is it Ali? I think always knew it's meant to be us forever. Some people say we have a perfect relationship, but I don't think we do. And I think that's the true beauty of it. We have ups and downs, but we constantly speak our minds and grow from each situation we grow through. Like always say, we aren't quitters and that's why we stuck with each other till the very end. You're an incredible wife and an even better mother. Abel and Sienna, I'm so lucky to have you.

Oh my God, what was my voice doing? I feel honored to call you my wife and I'm so proud of all you have accomplished, including this book. And I know there is more to come. I love you always and forever. How sweet is he? I think he really does love you. Yeah, well, 10 years later, I should really start this.

You should believe it. I love Alex's love for you and I love your love for him but in particular, and I'm going to give that to you, is in this research I was, you know, for you coming in, I was looking at lots of clips of the two of you. And what I noticed what he does, he does something that I feel like the most caring partners do for their, for their spouse. And he He defers to you and he holds eye contact with you. He defers to you. And he, you know, when I say he defers to you is, if there's a question being asked, he will almost pause, stop, hold back.

And he's like, no, Liv's got this, right? She's got us. And you can see this level of trust. that he has and I think that your love is beautiful. It's beautiful. Can anyone tell me why roaming fees are always so expensive? I feel like every time I get back from traveling overseas, I'm hit with a jaw-dropping phone bill.

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The stuff you don't typically think about, but actually, when you're traveling, is really important to keep your data protected. But the part that really pulls me in is that I can change my online location to the UK. So even if I'm somewhere else, any location blocked content is still accessible. To give it a try, download Saly from the application.

app store or scan the QR code on the screen. And if you want 15% off your first purchase, make sure you use my code, WNTT at checkout. Details are in the episode description. Just a heads up, this next section includes discussion of baby loss. If this is a difficult topic for you, please watch with care. Now, we have to talk about the children and we have to talk about the process of pregnancy as well. So you said you could have gone to New York, but it was COVID. So it was only 2022, right, when you fell pregnant for the first time.

Can you walk me through that pregnancy because there were a lot of lessons that you learned from it? Yeah, Abel, obviously the first pregnancy, they're your first of absolutely everything. They teach you so many different things to your second. It's a completely different process. And I think it's quite a well-known thing for people that know me that I did not want kids. I didn't really look at myself as a mother or a wife. I think just through the many years of telling myself

that I would never get that, I'd started to believe it. And I guess if you don't expect it for yourself, when you don't get it, it's not embarrassing. That was always my thought process. So I was like, right, well, we'll just shun that. and I'll just believe that I'm not getting it, and then no one can laugh at me when I don't get it. And obviously then I met Alex,

and I still was kind of in that way that I didn't want to be a mother, but there was like a turning point, which you'll read about in the book for us, and we were very, very lucky to get pregnant quite quickly. But even when I got pregnant, I was really concerned, obviously, having that predisposition with depression and anxiety and eating, I was worried that

all the changes would really send me to a place I didn't want to be and then they did. It did in the end. My pregnancy was beautiful. I was amazing. Like, just the best. I was,

it was the perfect pregnancy, really. Like, he was perfect. And I loved being pregnant. It was the after that really just, I think it was the best, birth was very traumatic and then the aftermath was the worst part the postpartum was the worst part. Now, you mentioned the birth was traumatic.

Can you tell us what was so traumatic? And also, what did you then learn from that birth? So it was just, it was very, very long. I think it was about 38 hours in the end. 38 hours. It was very long. The. Not the, it was from the, from the contractions, like, ramping up, it was till birth, it was 38 hours, it was pretty long.

And it's hard to, like, recollect it. And also because I think Siena's birth was even worse. Now I look at Aebles, I'm like, I can't actually take that. So, but it was hard. It was a very long birth. I just wouldn't die late and we were just laying in hospital for hours and hours. and then eventually we were taken down to have a C-section but I ended up dilating at the last minute

and he was pulled out with forceps but he wasn't breathing and I think I was just so unprepared I was just very unprepared for everything when you're a first time mum you have absolutely no clue it is so scary but so exciting at the same time I think I was just unprepared for everything that was going to happen. And it felt more traumatic at the time because I was obviously not in a very good place.

Okay. So it really deterred me and scared me because of the place I was in. But he was a perfect, perfect little baby boy. It's just when they don't come out breathing and he'd swallowed maconium and they were trying to get him. It was just a lot and Alex didn't do of it very well. He's a big softie. so he really, really struggled. And I think where we'd spent six years, just us too,

having a new little person and a new life, it really threw us. We were not ready for it at all. It was the biggest life change. I mean, after Love Island, look, we were at events nearly every night. We were abroad nearly every week. it was

and then the contrast of motherhood having this little baby rely on you attached to you that responsibility and dealing with the whole idea that I wasn't fit to be a mother at all I really didn't want to be called mum

I had this I remember I wrote something in my notes and it was that I just didn't like the term mum and I wouldn't be referred to as mum I don't want anyone to call me a mum or be mummy or I just hated it, really had an issue with it. Do you, when you reflect back, do you know why?

I think it's because I told myself for such a long time that I wasn't going to be a mum and I wasn't worthy of being someone's mum. So to then have that title just felt really, I didn't deserve it. Like I couldn't have that. And I think also, I never want to be. wanted to be put into a box. I think once you become a mum, people want to put you into this

tiny little box and tell you that that's all that you are and you can't do this and you can't have a career and you can't do, you just not looked at the same. And I was like, don't want to change. I don't want to be a mumsy mum. But really, there's nothing wrong with being a mumsy mum. It's actually lovely. I love being a mummy mom. I say it's pretty cool. Yeah. It's pretty Cool. You know, Liv, you just said something that actually I haven't heard you talk about, which I love that you brought it up, and that is, is not only did you have a hard time post-pregnancy, but Alex had a hard time, and that's often not talked about. Now, there's the baby blues and there's postnatal. Do you feel like, did you both suffer with that? And I'll

And I'll just define it for everyone. So baby blues is a term used to describe a feeling of being down, tearful, anxious after giving birth. Yeah. But that typically lasts for just about two weeks, right? Whereas postnatal depression, that's prolonged depression. It develops gradually. It's hard to recognize. Some parents may avoid talking about it because they worry they'll be judged for not coping or appearing that they're not happy.

and it's normally framed just for women. Yeah. But men go through it just as, well, I'm sorry, not just as much, but there's a percentage of men that go through it. Do you believe that you went through those phases? And do you think Alex went through those phases? I think Alex had a really tough time changing his lifestyle. Because he was also a.

and only child and he didn't have a dad growing up. So for him to then have to be completely selfless and become a dad himself when he's never had one, how do you even do that? Interesting. So I think he really struggled and I think he struggled because I struggled, how earlier I said he was the rock, he was the one that did the work, where he couldn't hold us up, I couldn't hold us up either. So no one was holding us up.

We were kind of just hanging on. and I ended up going to therapy for the traumatic birth but then I just slowly spiraled I got obsessed with these apps you know they have these apps for logging like babies poos and whee's and sleeps and feeds and it's just so encompassing like there's so much on Instagram about what kind of mum you need to be and what you need to do and you're doing this wrong and you've not fed them this and oh like there's just so much

much, it consumes you. It consumed me, maybe not everyone, but it consumed me and I would log absolutely everything in this app and if I missed like a wee or a poo, I'd spiral, I'd have like acute anxiety over the smallest things. And then I just lost myself completely. I was, didn't speak, didn't want to get up bed, didn't want to brush my teeth. And then they're the signs I know. And I know them well because of previous. and then I think when Alex caught wind of that he just felt useless because he's never had to deal with that before

so then in turn that made him feel so inadequate and he was already struggling trying to work out what kind of dad he wanted to be so it was so hard on the both of us and that's when post-Abel that's when my bad habits came back and Alex found out

and that is one of the hardest thing that I ever had to deal with because the shame of like someone who loves you so much seeing you treat yourself so badly like I'll never forget the look on his face when he saw what I did to myself and I'll never forgive myself for letting him go through that with me it's a really really hard time what was the conversation that you two have after he sees what's happened to you. For someone that's never experienced, like, self-harm or it's really hard to understand why you would do that. But I just remember him, like, picking me up and, like, cradling me like a baby and, like, squeezing me so tight, never felt a hug like it. I think that's when

I was like, that's enough. It was his reaction that this is enough. This cannot happen again. cannot be the way that we live. We're just coexisting. And it's got to this point, which is never something I thought I would get to in my 30s, my 29. I'd never thought that I would be there again where I was when I was 14,

not in a million years. So at that point, we were like, right, we love each other to death. We are never letting each other go. This is not going to be us. Like, we both need therapy. He went to therapy, I went to therapy, separately, he got help, I got help.

We started to talk again, we started to be honest again, we started to be truthful, even when it was really hard to hear what the other person thought about each other. Yes. Or it was hard, it was really, really difficult. But fast forward from that to after Siena's birth, it was more traumatic. We lost a baby in the process.

We've never been closer. We've never been more for each other. Because and if we can talk about your second pregnancy, because with child loss, I found to be this interesting duality where it can either break a couple up or pull you closer together. So what happened? Because this is a unique circumstance. So Vanishing Twin Syndrome is something I'd never heard of before. and a lot of people hadn't. And I think that was the most shocking thing about it.

It was when I started to, after it happened, I started to Google it and look into it. And it's a really common thing. It's about 30%. Basically, what happens is you have a twin pregnancy and one of the babies, for whatever reason, doesn't survive. You don't lose it. So it's not like a miscarriage

where sometimes you bleed and you have pain. it quite literally vanishes. So in my case, we lost the baby around nine weeks, but Sienna was absolutely fine. She was thriving, but the other baby had no heartbeat. But it was still in there, and it was still in there until I was 19 weeks, and then it disappeared into my body. So no pain, no bleeding, no signs, but then it just goes.

And it's the most weird thing to get your head round because you're so happy you've got that little baby like thriving in there, growing perfectly. And then you see the baby that's passed is still in there. Every scan you have, every time you talk about it, it's really hard to get your head round because you're so happy for one moment

and then you see that and you're so sad. How do you reconcile that? Because I was, this was one of my biggest questions coming into this is because my wife and I have gone through a miscarriage. But we didn't have twins, right? So all of the focus is on mourning the loss of one child. But here you have with Vanishing Twin Syndrome, as you mentioned, and the stats to your point is you nailed the stats. But then there's another one to drop on you, which I don't know if you know this one, is so. 15 to 35% of all twin pregnancies go through vanishing twin syndrome, right?

However, it affects one half of pregnancies with three or more embryos. So think about that. When you are carrying triplets, vanishing twin syndrome happens one half of the time. So it's super, once again, something super prevalent that I had not heard about. until your case. I mean, we're human, we can't know everything. So until someone you know speaks about it, you won't. So when we first initially went for the scam, we were over the moon.

We were scared, obviously, but we were over the moon and we were planning for two babies. We looked up cars. We considered their rooms. Like from that point on, we were having two children. So even though it was still very early, we felt the loss quite heavily because we'd prepared. We're very positive, try and be very positive people. So we were just preparing all the good things. And then we found out like that nine weeks.

And he was immediately in bits, crying. I just went silent, numb. And he was in bits for a couple of days. I was like, it's fine. We'll get like really just quite normal. And then the tables turned and he was fine. And I, again, just went into that state of like, don't want to get up in the morning.

Don't want to rush my hair. Don't want to talk. Don't. And the one thing that made all the difference is talking about. about it publicly because when I went on loose women and I did Fabulous magazine as I mentioned earlier the the thousands thousands of women in my inbox saying I have never been so validated I've never felt so seen I've never felt so carried by someone else I've never spoke about this to anyone I'm so glad you've like it was so hard for me to talk about it and

I didn't know how it would come across like oh she's on TV she's got makeup on she's chatting chatting about it. It was never about that. It was about connecting to other women. That reaction alone is why I feel so confident in speaking about the disordered eating and self-harming now. Because all of those people that then confided in me and now we have this group that have this, I don't know, a newfound sense of like team. Even in the audience in loose women, there was a woman who was 65. She came up to me after. She said, I had that and I didn't even know until you spoke about it and that was 40 years ago. And I was like, it blew my mind that just by little old me saying something. Like I'm no guru. I'm no, I have not got everything worked out. I think it's quite clear to see.

But just by me saying something, the impact it has had is so worthwhile. And I really hope that the book the same for the other issues that I've experienced that I hope give people something to hold on to. Oh yes. No, no, it will. I mean, just this conversation, you know, the more we talk about the challenges that we've gone through in life, the more other people feel seen. Okay to do it. It's the shame. It's the shame. It's the shame.

Like, it feels shameful to speak about out loud. maybe it's the stiff up a living again. But for us it feels like, oh my God, you shouldn't say that out loud. Like people think you're wanting attention or victimizing yourself or you're not. But you're not, but you're not. So then coming out of your second then pregnancy, you then are blessed with a beautiful girl who, from what I understand, your girl is your sunshine child, but you still have a sunset.

Yeah. So when I got connected with a couple of charities for baby loss, like Tommy's footprints, there's a few that are really amazing. I saw a little quote. And this is how great it is just to follow a charity. Even if you feel like you can't reach out to a charity, they do amazing work. And by reaching out, honestly, they would give you so many tools.

I actually am going to reach out to them when the time comes. I need to speak to Sienna about the fact that she has a twin. I want her to know. Obviously, it's in the public. So I need to tell at some point, but I don't know how. So I will be reaching out to the charity to help me with that. But they had this quote and it was that apparently when you lose a twin,

that's your sunset baby and then the twin that you have is your sunrise baby. And I like, that really resonated for me because I love sunsets. So we have that little quote in Siena's nursery under her cot. So none of us can see it, but you know it's there. It's beautiful. Which I really love. Well, she is just, I absolutely adore. But I think when you go through that and you like deal with loss, you appreciate it so, so much more.

And you shouldn't have to go through that to appreciate life, but you do. Right. Anytime, if we're missing with a parent, we miss a month. The next month we get is even more precious. So, last photo I want to show you. You ready? All right. I want you to tell me what this.

This photo means to you. I know you were going to pull something like that. I think this is everything, isn't it? What does that mean to you? And if you can tell us what's happening in that? So this is when we brought Sienna home. And I literally sat in bed for the first time, just all four of us. And actually Alex's mum was with us because obviously the birth that I had with Sienna was even worse.

she came and it was like our little knight in shining armour she brought us all home and she took this picture it's just like safety isn't it it's the bed that I was talking about earlier they're just all in the bed they're just all there it's just so cute oh she's so tiny I remember the one thing that went through my head

with the birth with Siena a bit triggering but I had a really bad hemorrhage and the one thing I remember feeling is I've got my little boy at home like waiting for me to come home and I'm not going to make it home because I've decided to have another baby like the guilt was unreal

I remember that fit like that like so clear in my head thinking what have you done you're so selfish you've gone and had another baby and now you're going to die in childbirth and you're not going to see your son how selfish are you that's like the one thing I thought

I just thought about him being at home and thinking like you're never going to see them again. So then to get home and be in that safe space with them both, you just feel like you won the lottery. Like, even if he is crazy. I tell you what, they all are, right? They is. I've got two crazy ones. I've got two real crazy ones. But he's the best big brother. Oh my goodness. Yeah. I, um, you know, uh, we only have a few more minutes. There's so many questions. There's so many different areas that i like to to go to uh but one that i have to i have to is i have to go back to identity an image today because what i find to be so profound is when i showed you that

photo of yourself in alex at love island you have a hard time talking about how you looked in that moment. So when you look at yourself in the mirror today, Liv, what do you see? I can't lie, I still struggle. But the overriding feeling is like, you're a powerhouse. Like, especially after writing the book

and reliving everything, you think in the babies, the births, the motherhood, being a wife, having a career, usually you look at yourself in a different way, Like you've created life. You've made a life for yourself. And regardless what happens, you just keep going. You don't really look at how you look anymore.

You kind of look at how you feel. And I look at myself. I see myself so differently. I struggle with body image still. But I'm getting there. And I think we've twisted the narrative of fitness is more about how it makes me feel. And I, after having two kids, you want to be in the gym. It's actually easier to lift like heavy weights.

Yes. For me, like, I'm just trying to twist that narrative and I think it's always going to be a work in progress for me because of all of the stuff beforehand. But I am so grateful for my body of what it's done for me. I am lucky to be here. I have an amazing family. I have a husband that loves me.

I have beautiful children. I have a support network of friends, family. Online is like another family to me. I wouldn't be where I am without them. I wouldn't have come out and said what I've said today or in my book without them. How can I look in the mirror and think anything otherwise? Exactly this.

You know what strikes me to be so interesting is I have these amazing conversations with so many public figures who are adored and so many people place you all on these pedestals, right? But it's not until you come and you sit that we see the pain. And we hear how long you've lived with the pain. And when I hear these stories, my level of respect and admiration grows even more because you kept going throughout the pain.

You never stopped. And that's the reason why your father loves you so much. and your mother loves you so much, and Alex loves you so much, and so many people love you so much, is it's the resilience that you have to keep getting up and fighting through the pain. And that's something that I hope that you continue to do time and time again. And then most importantly, and I find myself now saying this often, but this definitely applies to you, is you have to give yourself grace. Yeah.

You really do. Already when you're saying this, I'm like, yeah, but people have it so much worse. Let's not. But see, but that's not what it is. It's that you have to understand that what you went through, what you've told me is a percentage of what you've gone through. Yeah. And that was hard.

It was hard. So regardless of what anyone else is going through, what you went through was hard. And because it was hard, you then created these adaptive strategies to, regulate your emotion. And you did what you thought was best. So all of these things that you're doing to yourself physically,

that you're telling yourself, you were doing that because you thought that was the right thing to do. So therefore, you have to give yourself grace. All of these moments, like in the hospital, that will always stay with me. Yeah. When you said that I've got to get home, to my little boy.

It's something that makes me tear up even someone else saying that. Oh, yeah. I think every parent, every parent, that stays with me. But that is you saying, you know what, I have responsibilities. And this has been my through line when I think about you is I think you've been incredibly responsible. And I'm sure you're going to look back and say, no, I'm the most irresponsible person ever, Paul. But no, no, no, when it's the things that matter, you step up.

You have shown incredible love and loyalty to those around you. You've been incredibly resilient, right? You are the OG of the OGs, right? You are a bad ass any way you define it. You have to truly walk with that, right? And that's not being... That's not having an overinflated ego.

Those are just facts. That makes me uncomfortable. They're just facts. But I appreciate you. They're just facts. They're just facts. Can I ask you one last question before we get out here? You've had some amazing conversations throughout your life.

When you think about the most memorable conversation, who was it with and what did you learn? I've got two in my head. One, I already told you about with my mom, because I think that's been one of the biggest impacts on my life. And two, with my son, Abel, purely saying that he loves me. Because when you hear that little person that you created, outwardly, freely, willingly telling you that they love you, when you've doubted yourself for so long, it's like the most purest thing you'll ever hear. And I think that just changes you as a person.

It changes your brain chemistry. Hearing someone so purely love you freely as a little kid. It's just so amazing. And I can't wait for Sienna to say the same. And then I'd probably say that would be my second. Love it. Love it. I've heard a lot of, well, I've asked a final question to all of our guests.

You're the first person to give that as an answer, and I love that. Just your child simply saying, I love you. It's the little thing, right? There you go. Less is more. Less is more. Thank you so much. Liv, I appreciate having this time with you.

Me too. It's been amazing. Honestly, I feel so honored to be here. Thank you so much. I have, can I give you all these gifts? Look at this. All these letters. Oh my God, I'm going to immediately ring my dad and be like, how dare you make me cry that much?

If you look at Liv's Instagram, she has almost 3 million people who follow her, you see these photos and videos of what many people would presume is someone living their best life and full of joy. And there's no doubt she has lots of joy in her life. but based on this conversation, also lots of pain. We need to get rid of this stiff upper lip. And that's not just UK. I think that's around the world. You know, there is a thought that if you don't talk about the thing, the thing just goes away. But that's not what happens.

It's kind of like if you have weeds in your garden. If you don't talk about the weeds, they'll just go away. No, they'll grow and grow and grow. and sooner or later overtake your garden. It's important to talk about those moments openly with our loved ones because every time we talk about them, there's a new discovery. And that discovery can lead to the relief of the pain or relief of the grief.

And ultimately, talking about it is the healthiest thing we can do. On Love Island, I feel like Harry was gaslighted other people. We could all see what he was doing. Are you in love with him? Shut them fuck up. You haven't got a hail around your head either. Going through high school, the beauty standard was blonde, blue eyes, thick tan, and I was right at the bottom of the barrel.

And I really, really, really, really liked the boy. It was my first kiss. But he was like racist. He went to EDL March, but then there was a great shift. In beauty standards... What are you thinking you'll do? I wanted to go on Love Island. North South Asian female has been on that show.

on that show and not being booted off. That might help insecure little me. If I might see someone who looks remotely like me from the media. So these are the main characters in Shakira's world. Meg, we didn't see eye to eye. Ben, it was a difficult concept for him to understand. He wasn't what I was looking for.

And Harry, that's my Villa fella. That's your Villa fella. Was there actually a divot? I was crying to my chaperon. I'm not going to be anyone's type. They're going to fancy the bull. blue-eyed blondes. It's going to be like high school all over again. You left as one of the most followed Love Islanders. You came in second place.

Shakira, you are very impressive. On Love Island, is there any moment the audience didn't see that might surprise them?