We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Oti Mabuse & Marius Iepure: The Real Cost Of Putting Our Careers First!

Episode Date: October 1, 2024

In this episode, dance power couple Oti Mabuse and Marius Iepure sit down for their first joint interview. Together, they share the highs and lows of their relationship, revealing how hey transitioned from dance partners to life partners, and navigated the challenges following their daughter’s premature birth. Oti opens up about how her obsession with winning Strictly strained their marriage and how Marius supported her during her lowest moment as a professional dancer. Join Paul for an inspiring conversation about resilience, unwavering support, and the vital importance of showing up for one another in life’s toughest moments. Oti's Instagram: https://g2ul0.app.link/EyHZ8NAnjNb  Marius's Instagram: https://g2ul0.app.link/Qc1t4kFnjNb Oti and Marius' Website: https://g2ul0.app.link/SrgkUdenjNb Follow me here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod Sections: 00:00 - Introduction 02:17 - Why Share Your Private Life Now? 04:48 - How Childhood Lessons Shape Your Life Today 13:25 - Building Strong Connections Despite Differences 17:49 - How Dance Brings People Together 21:35 - The Global Impact of Afrobeats and Dance 24:58 - Redefining Masculinity in African Culture 28:12 - Navigating Power Dynamics in Modern Relationships 32:44 - Why Failure and Rejection Are Essential for Growth 36:10 - How Setting Boundaries Transforms Your Life 40:23 - Does Fame Change Who You Are? 44:56 - The Pressures of Being a Role Model 49:12 - How to Stay True to Yourself in a Demanding World 53:39 - Your Path to Self-Acceptance and Confidence 58:27 - Why Mental Health Should Be a Priority 01:02:14 - How Vulnerability Can Empower You 01:07:06 - Living Authentically in a Digital Age 01:11:35 - Mastering How to Handle Criticism 01:16:02 - How to Find Inner Peace in a Busy World 01:20:47 - Discovering Your Life's Purpose 01:25:33 - Overcoming The Fear Of Being Judged 01:29:50 - How to Become Your Best Self Sponsored by: Tinder - https://tinder.com/en-GB Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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choreographer and entrepreneur. Together, they've built an impressive career in dance and choreography, all while managing a strong and supportive partnership. In today's conversation, we dive into their experiences of balancing love and busy careers. We explore how their cultural differences and backgrounds have shaped their styles of communication and we discuss the journey of building a family, speaking of the hardship they faced while their daughter was born premature. Their stories of resilience and deep mutual support offer valuable lessons and I hope this episode provides you with as much wisdom and inspiration as it did for me.

Before we get into it, I want to ask you for a small favor. We want to make sure these impactful conversations get to as many people as possible. By subscribing to this channel, you help these conversations reach the people they need to. In return, if you're a part of our first 20,000 subscribers, we're going to pick 10 of you to come down here to the We Need to Talk studio to meet me, the guests, and let us know who you'd like to see on the show. Don't forget to stay until the end where I'll share my top takeaways. Now let's get into it. Before we get into it, I want to ask you for a favor. We want to make sure these impactful conversations get to as many people as possible.

By following this show and leaving a review, you help these conversations reach the people they need to. If you send a screenshot of you doing both to the We Need to Talk Instagram page, I'll pick 10 of you to come down here to the studio to meet me, the guests, and let us know who you'd like to see on the show. Thank you. I've never seen the two of you together talking about anything other than dancing. All right. Oh, we've never done that.

Oh, yeah. We've never done that. Oh, this makes me so nervous. All right. Thank you very much. No, no, no, don't leave. Don't leave. Don't leave. Don't leave. Don't leave. That was beautiful. It was a good chance.

We're having a start to. I'm like crying. I'm like, my career is over. It was no breathing chance. Oh, my God. So I have to ask, because why now? Yes. Why are you ready to talk now? Honestly, we've always been really, really private.

about us and in our private. I think I found the balance of being very open, but also not. There are many things that I keep very dear to me, and it's my relationship with the people that are in my life. So my sister, our relationship is very private as well. Although we're very open about the things we do, but our relationship is private.

My relationship with my husband, very, very unprotective over there. So I haven't really spoken about our relationship or we haven't spoken about it, but I will tell you stories about him. Do you know what I mean? It's that privacy that there's just that one little thing that we keep to ourselves. And now, well, now we're here.

No one. Can I ask, why are you ready now to talk about your relationship? I mean, maybe our baby changed some connections in our relationship. in our whole family life, I would say. And yeah, I mean, it was never like a secret secret for me. I'm not so much in the eye of the press and in that attention. But I was never really bothered about also other people's relationships. So I'm not a person that I have to know, I have to gossip, I have to know what's going on.

I mean, we're all in the dance industry. So it's a lot of gossip going on because I did two years. strictly Germany and that for me was enough because there was very much out of my comforts. No, but my understanding of having fun and my students were waiting for me and I had to do the dance show and I was like, where is the more important part of my career? And then, yeah, it was very clear that that, and also that's how it was more private. I didn't want to do photo shoot with Katty Fisher and, you know, I always think that.

And he's going to make me. I was like, he's really going there. No, she lives in Germany. She's never going to watch this. This is international. Okay, Katz. Hey, Katz. No, she was great.

She is great. Well, look, I have done quite a bit of research on both of you. Where I'd love to begin on these is to look at what do you believe you learned from your childhoods that you have brought into your relationship, not just with your partner. but with all the people that are in your life. Good or bad? Both. Both.

I think for me, I think I'm from an African household, a real African household, where I guess the communication, and we were talking about this in the car, is completely different. You know, Dad is the head of the family. Dad doesn't talk. If Dad has something to say to you, talks to Mom, and then Mom talks to the older sister, and then the older sister passes it on to the younger ones.

And I think how we deal with anger is very much we keep quiet. We just put it under the rug and then we let it go. And if somebody older than you disrespects you, you don't say anything, you let it go. If they cross a boundary, you don't say anything, you let it go because they're older and you always have to respect to your eldest. And I think that's one thing that I brought into the relationship where if something would happen that would bother me, I would just shut down. I would just shut down and be like, I'm fine.

I let it go. It's fine. Give me space. He is the exact opposite with his family, like the exact opposite. So if his mom does something wrong, it's like we deal with it right there, right now. I tell you to your face, mom, no, stop it. I said no, put it. And it's like, so I think that culture shock that we brought into the marriage, into each other's family.

It's quite entertaining, I would say. It's entertaining, but it was a shock for my mom, for him to be like, to my mom. Why did you put that that? That doesn't belong there. We don't do that. Why are you leaving the lights on? It's very expensive to pay. My family is like, is he talking to me like this?

And it's weird. And then to see him talk to his family, my family is like, this is, this is insane. So we, I think, had to kind of come together where he knows if I'm upset, if I'm quiet. He's either he pushes my buttons and then I speak, or he knows, okay, I think she needs a day or something's going to happen. And then he gives me space. That's a big observation. Coming together was a lot. It's still a lot.

We're still dealing with it right now. My mom is like, what's that boy who has an opinion? And he's mom's like, is he going to say something? Like, is she still mad? Is she still quiet? It's like, yes. Nothing has changed. It's interesting.

It's the Gottmans who were getting. Yes, here, and I think they're the foremost researchers on marriage, and they said, look, almost 70%, 69% of challenges that you have in your relationship will never be resolved. Oh, wow. Will never be resolved. So this is about accepting and then managing them. How do you accept something that bothers you, and you know that this has crossed my boundary, it will never be resolved? If it crosses your boundary, it's unhealthy for you. That's something that needs a resolution.

Okay. Because the higher our boundaries, the higher quality of life we have. So if it's something that is near and dear to your heart and that's a boundary, that's a line that you have to draw. Okay, that's very important. But for Maris, I would imagine you have a lot of lessons from childhood. But good, bad, and indifferent. What do you think one of the top ones was that you've brought into your relationship? I mean, I'm born in Romania, so I had the, I still had the first seven or eight years under the socialism, socialist regime where was a little bit like low shedding in South Africa right now sometimes.

And the schools were very much indoctrined with all the socialist culture and all of that. So it was not easy, but in the same time, how you said, it expanded our boundaries of accepting stuff. so you learn to accept more because it is how it is. And when you go with a card and you are allowed only one liter of milk per week and I don't know how many eggs and one bread and so on, you learn to deal with it. So there are a lot of things that I think

it shocks you as a child, but then it shows you it's okay. We are still happy together because we are together. That's profound. That's profound. You know, something that strikes me about the two of you. And I was talking to my wife about this. And she said, please ask them this. And I said, yes, I'm definitely going to ask them. So it turns out that I have visited both Romania,

where you're from, and in particular Pretoria, where you were from, both within the last two years. So recently. And with Romania, one of the stories that stands out to me is that we went to the Brond Castle. Yes, very nice. And I remember getting a lot of. out the car, walking up to the castle. And I remember distinctly people touching my son's hair. Yeah. And my son was like, why are you touching my hair? And then we stopped and we had a conversation. I'm sorry for that. No, no. I'm next. He wanted to know why they're touching my hair. And I said, well, you know, if there's a question, you need to ask it. So let's ask. So we went back and we stopped the people and we said, well, you know, we're curious about this.

You know, why did you do this? And they said, we've never met a black person before. And then that made me curious about how many black people do live in Romania? Four. We know that. Four and a half with my daughter's absolutely. And I thought it was 0.001%. And I'm curious, you left Romania at 19.

Yes. Prior to 19, how many black people had you met? I mean, because I was doing danceport and I was traveling to competitions, German Open, for example, or other Danish Open. So you met outside the country, but not inside the country, definitely not. So you not met anyone black inside the country. Okay, so all right, this is what I find so interesting. Now, let's go to Pretoria.

I went to Pretoria. Yeah. Our first stop in Pretoria, we literally get off the plane and immediately they say, you need to go to the trekker monument. Yes. So we go. My boys, they're young. They're hungry.

There's a restaurant there. We stand in line for the restaurant. We notice no one's coming. No one's coming for us. And this gentleman tugs at me and he says, you know, you probably don't want to go and eat in there because they probably don't. don't want you in there. Yep.

And I thought, wow, this is Pretoria. In 2022. In 2022. 2022. Remember when we were with Kama, when we were in Jobbuk, actually. Yeah, Johannesburg. When we met those friends of us. And then I was walking with my nephew who is black and dark skin black.

A beautiful boy. Yes, gorgeous. And then, yeah. And everybody was like, and we were at. at that restaurant, the only mixed table in that restaurant. And I was like, wow. And I felt weird. And it was still like eight years ago.

Look at that eight years ago. So, but then I think, this is what my wife and I are discussing. We're saying, okay, so this is O.T's, this is where she's from. Yeah. And she's married a white man. Yes. So you are married a black woman. You married a white man.

And your childhood experiences, I would imagine, would say, don't do this. Yes. Do not do this, but you did it anyway. We're the rebels. That should be the name of the door. That should be our family named the rebels. Yeah. But there's something so beautiful about that.

So I want to know what was it that allows you to do that, to give yourself license for that where so many from where you were from would not do that. or tell you not to do it. For me, if I'm being brutally honest, he's white, but he is European. I think there are different versions of white people, like in my opinion. And the racism in South Africa is, it's intense, it's rife.

It is, there's a lot of tension there. People are trying to come together, but we still have a long way to go. And when bigger countries who are more powerful than South Africa are struggling and are mentioning here and there every single second we need to get rid of immigrants, stuff like that trickles down to know a country is like South Africa and the racial tension becomes even more because it's one group of people is better than the other group of people. And it still lingers in the air. Poutura specifically, I grew up there. I would never end up with an Afrikaans man. Just, I would never.

It was, it's not something I would even consider. I don't, I have not experienced an Afrikaans man even like going, oh, hey, O T, like, I'm never, like, that's not. An O T, too, I think you might have to explain it in Afrikaans, because I didn't know until I got this. Yes, an Afrikaans man is, is a white man of, it's, they are their own race culture, people, they are white people that are in South Africa, from South Africa, they identify as Africans. They are blonde summer, blonde brunette, blue eyes, green eyes, great. They are white

people who are African. Red hat. Yeah, they're white people who are, and we, we accept them as South Africans. They are 100% South African, and we see them that way. But I wouldn't, I personally, me, I would never end up with an African man. Fast forward coming to Europe as a black woman, coming down into the airport and all these white boys are like oh my girl and I was like

me me and they're like you're like a booty I'm like what it actually even have like it's so weird even when you were like a duke and your hair's not done

they're like that's nice I like the color on it like if I have braids on he's like oh my god oh my god and I'm not going to call a jungle I'm just going to say it's me. But I think the way

that black women are seen and in here in Europe, not by all, but I've seen in Europe is completely different experience that I had in South Africa. If I'm in South Africa as a black woman and if I go into that restaurant that you say you

went to, I know I need to put my black woman's strengths on. I know. I know that I have to say to the way to, hey, we are here. We are important. We exist. You have to serve us. So do your job. So I have to become that O-T. Even if you're at the shopping mall and our daughter, who's very fair-skinned is with me? And they're like, what's going on? And South Africans are very honest. They're like, hey, whose baby is this? And I have to be like,

yeah, that guy outside there with their hand, they look at him. They're like, him and you. So I have to always be like, yeah, it's possible. And there's nothing wrong with it. And then they're like, oh, okay, it's tough. Also, of course, if you take, so Haddad, a judge has a lot of books in his library. I like books and I was watching through his library and looking through the books. And actually just before our wedding, I was taking the law book of marriage. And yeah, it was written there in one of the paragraphs.

It was still from 1989, just before Mandela was released, that a few months of different races, it's a crime. It is a crime. To get married to each other. So it's really written there and you are reading that and you're like, this is just it was against the law. It was 25, 26 years later. Yeah.

And so to me, growing up in that and now marrying someone who it would have been illegal to marry when you were a child, what do you think allows you to do that? And even for you, never to have met anyone black in Romania. Yeah. To now marry a black woman. What within you allows you to do that? I mean, we dance together as a dance. We physically have to know. That was our first, yeah, real connection.

We'll talk, real. Yeah. Yeah, real, like, it was not like an intimate, but when you dance together, you come quite close. You're not like, we're going to talk like that, like to have like a normal distance. So you get a little bit more in each other's way. So you're like, okay, you can speed up that connection, I think.

And yeah, we really liked how different we were as well. It was so exciting to see somebody who counts different, the timing was different, has a different attitude than all my previous partners, obviously. And then I was like, wow, this is very exciting. This is not going to be boring for the 100 years. I'm okay with that. I think that's going to be fun. And yeah, for me, I'm bored quite fast.

So if it's not exciting, I'm going to... Logo. Sleep in the cinema or at a musical, which is not very nice to do. Cheers. Unfortunately, yeah, I need more excitement in my life. And then Ochi came and I was like... Very excited. So now it sounds like, so you two met in Germany.

Yes. Okay. Now when you met in Germany, sounds like you were all the way in from day one, second one. Kind of. Did you tell me you love me after a week? Did he? Really? So the thing is, I was.

Obviously. The thing is, I was, I was 13. I was like, ah, you know, love is for people who are 15, 20, 25. I thought, no, it's too late. I'm not going to find love in my life. I'm fine. And then, I don't know, she just shocked me from the roots. And within one week, you said, I love you.

I mean, maybe it was a bit longer. No, it was a week. Because I was leaving. I was going back home to the South Africa. I very much remember. I was looking for a dance partner, and I was there just to find a dance partner. And right before I left, he said, I loved you. And I said, thank you.

How are you doing this? Sorry, sorry, I'm going to stop. Okay. O.T. Can I ask this? She didn't say, thank you. Oh, really? What did she say?

What I said? Did I? Maybe not that day, but the next day. Not that day. But before you left. Before I left. Yes. Before I left.

Five days later. Okay. What you did was not uncharacteristic of men seeking a committed relationship, right? men on average say I love you in heterosexual relationships say I love you more than the woman says and before and before so first they're the first right you see so what you did was not uncharacteristic so so I didn't know that fact yes so if he doesn't is a red flag I'm going to say right to my daughter if he does not tell you before you it's a red flag leave you never say first you never never say never and don't wait longer than a week do not But what was your reaction? Because at least from everything I've read, maybe everything I've read is incorrect here, is that it took you a while to build up.

It took me a while to build up because I didn't understand what was going on. Like, I was like, how can someone... Why is this guy named Marius? Who has a name of an African, loves me? Yes. This is a lie. And I was like, this is not possible.

And then what does it mean for me and my future? Does it mean I leave everything in South Africa? Does it mean I move to Germany, which is what I wanted? Will I fail? If I go into the dance partnership initially, what I wanted and the relationship, does that mean that the two are separate or the two are the same thing? Also, my dad at that point was very apprehensive. He was like, do not follow this man.

And I'm like, I'm not following this man. I'm following my dream. Interesting. It just happens that he's a part of that plan. And so there was a lot of apprehension because I had to do a lot of thinking. You know, like I said, we come from South Africa. You're a young black woman moving to Europe. How many stories, how many success stories do we hear who are dancers?

It's just my sister, really. Right. This is such a dilemma for you because not only are you moving to a new country, but you're thinking about a business partnership. Yes. Right? Because that's really what it was. was. Yes. It was a business partnership. But now in addition to it being a business partnership,

your business partner is now just said, I love you. Yes. And your family is not supporting. All of them are like, no. My family. Yeah. Oh, he's family as well. I mean, our brothers and sisters were actually. No, my sister. Your sister was like a people. She said, no. She said no. Yeah, she said, no. It wasn't because of him. It was because I was leaving everything at home. And it took her 10 years to get to a place It took her 10 years to get to a place where she felt okay And she didn't need to have plan B And she was like, I love you so much

This is so hard, I don't want this for you So when I said, I'm doing it, everyone was like, don't And I'm like, I never listen to you. I'm not going to start listening to you now. I'm going to doing so they were upset. Wow. So when you said, I'm going to do it, what does that mean? What did that mean?

That means I'm going to, so the thing was, my parents were like, you can do it alone. You're going to have to do it alone. And if you fail, you always have home, but that means you have to come back. And I mean at home, you are civil engineer. Yes. It's not like you had nothing home. Yes. In a career, you could have a life.

But the idea of coming home was not an option. So you wanted to go to Europe and become a dancer. Yes. That's really what it was. And so when you said yes, you were saying yes to the partnership of being able to dance, but were you also saying yes to the relationship? Yes, I was. Initially, I was.

And then... I know what was in your head, but... Yes, no, I really, I was saying yes to the relationship. But I think we had to learn a lot about each other, dynamics. The dynamics of a man and woman in the Latin world, in Europe, the dynamics of... West Europe from our East European and South African. So it was a lot of cultural mixed. We had to adapt to Germany.

I mean, Germany is not the easiest country in the world to deal with people. Yes. And we had quite a few, the dance, let's say culture, which is very free. We try to imitate the Latin American dancers, but we don't have their culture. We don't have their feeling their rhythm whatsoever. So it was like five cultures combined in our whole. parts of the life. So I think that was really,

I'm not to deal with that. You said something that I found really intriguing. You said that the dance helped to expedite the relationship. We didn't have many dates. We had to go to practice. That was the date. We had a few pizzas which were necessary

because we had to recover. We had to recover, but we didn't have dates. We didn't have take me out. It was like we had to practice and to gym and then competition. Yep. Looking from the outside in, you two were immigrants,

right? You shared this passion around dance. Not very liked immigrants. I mean, Romanians are not very liked in the UK. We must say that. There was a, I just heard from one of my teachers that it was a program some years ago on television. Romania's are coming and I was like, okay, that's not fun for us.

So I'm really trying to represent, I'm trying to work with charities helping Romania because I want to show there are other type of Romanians than the typical ones. I hear you. I hear you. So even in Germany, do you feel like you, you two were ostracized? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. But I always said I'm Romanian. I was never like, especially to its Germans. I'm like, I'm Romanian and I'm doing a good job. So we can change that image. We don't have to stay in our box. I mean, I don't like boxes anyway. Yeah. But was part of the two of you coming together the fact that you two were each other's safe space? Yeah, we can say that. He was definitely my safe space.

For me, it was obviously I was still 23, 22, and meeting someone who knew what they wanted out of life. I think it was Steve Harvey when he was growing in the think like a man, act like a woman, that era. That's when I left. And the one thing he was saying is ask a man what's his 10-year plan. And if he gives you a 10-year plan, ask him what's his 5-year plan. And at that time, I had a boyfriend.

I asked him and he was like, oh, you know, we'll see. And I was like, I'm sorry, what? And then I went to Germany and I was like, what's your time? And he's like, I want to dance to you. I want to be president of WDSF. I want to travel the world. And whatever crazy idea you have to do, I want to go along with it. And he gave it to me.

And I was like, there's the plan. Wow. I like the plan. Yeah. There's a plan. It was just that he had a plan. Yes. I'm not jumping without a plan.

Yeah. I saw at one point, this is in the research. I've done all kinds of research on you, Mom. I have nothing to hide. I can see this. This is good. This is good. Is that at one point, did you drive, was it three hours for a date?

Did you drive three hours? Oh, yeah. I was driving. We had our studios that we were working with in Germany, and I had a lot of competitors. I was coaching quite a lot of competitors and mainly kids and youth. When you're coaching kids is different than when you're coaching adults because you have a much bigger responsibility. So I had to be there like five, six days a week.

She was doing strictly. So when I had one or two days free, I was flying wherever she was on tour or doing the show or whatever. And it was five months and very intense months because she had time literally for nothing. So she had like, babe, I have three hours there. Okay, I'm coming from Germany for three hours. So then I was flying to Stansted, fetching a rental car one time, driving to Blackpool. I was in the evening, 11, 12 o'clock in Blackpool, 6 o'clock or 5 o'clock in the morning. I had to drive back to Stansstead and flying back to Norbert.

Yeah. And we were literally together like three, four hours. And she was like, I have to sleep. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Let's just, let's just cuddle for a few hours and then I'm going back. And that was it.

So you did all that travel for three hours of cuddle? Yeah. And then you were back. Energy. It was catling. It really was. No, no. I say it like that because some people would say, that's ridiculous.

Other people would say. No, I mean, I was not 20 anymore. I knew what a relationship takes and obviously coaching kids and people. And I knew how important consistency is. Just to see each other for a few hours a week keeps you going. We missed a few weeks and you see what's up? Yes. Yes, absolutely.

Those three hours are very, very heavy hours for our relationship. At what point do you two decide that marriage is what you want? Because from what I understand is that, O.T., marriage wasn't always a goal of yours. Not when I was that age. I was how old as I, like, 23? I always went to... Yeah, I think we, as a little good, girls, you have plans for your life, you know.

I think when I was eight, I would have told you by the age of 24, I want four kids, I want to be married, and I want a house in Pretoria. And then you get to 21 and you're like, I'm not ready. We were together already two years. And for me, after two years, it felt like, this is taking long. It's either we get married or we don't. And we kept talking about it for a long time. And he was the one who was like, I'm not.

We didn't talk for a long time. For long, a few months. We were together for two years. Yes. I mean, we were just in the summer maybe that we were talking about. And then I asked you end of the summer. Yes. But why did we, why did we do it?

We did it because we felt like doing it, obviously. That's it. That's it. You know what? I would argue that subconsciously something else was going on. So you were together for two years on average and then you proposed. Yes. Okay.

So there's interesting research. I didn't realize. it was two years. Okay. This may blow your mind. All right. Now, the divorce rate is what? Right now, around the world?

Roughly 50%. Yeah, right? Tough. However, if you look at those who were engaged for two years and got married, you know what their divorce rate is? Much lower. It's like 20%.

When you go through roughly two years, you'll go through highs in your life. You're going to get the job. You're going to win the tournament, right? You're going to go through lows. You're going to lose the job. You're going to lose the tournament. You may lose a family member.

And the question is, does your partner show up for you in the same way when you're up high or when you're down low or when you're in between? You get a chance to see what in psychology is called low neuroticism, right? They're not reacting drastically to the ups and downs. And this is what we innately are seeking in a partner is someone who's going to be solid for us. And I found that interesting that you said it was two years and we just kind of felt like it shows that, you know, your instincts are good. You know, you have great instincts. In any relationship, there are downs. There's tough moments, especially when we're contemplating marriage, right? That's

where we start to evaluate, okay, who is this person? What do you think was the most challenging moment that she had going into marriage? I think I was in a process where I had to change. I was a from my old ways of expressing maybe, of being imperative, that macho type of guy which it's quite common into the dance world, you know, so you have to realize that that's not okay and that you have to, I think it's more the outside many times, so you're just trying to be rough as a man and trying to be tough and to be the guy that has the saying, you know what I mean?

That type of mentality. Macho man. Yeah, which is very common, very common. or it was. I think nowadays now it developed a lot. What is an example of this? Because this is something that comes up a lot in relationships. And many people don't want to change.

So what was an example of you being, you know, too macho? Actually, also nowadays in ballroom dancing. So leading is usually men, the men, or let's say we have a lot of same-sex couples nowadays nowadays as well, which is amazing. And the stronger one is the weaker one, That's more or less.

The bigger one is a smaller one. You could put it like that. So then the man was leading to the lady, which was the man is telling the lady what to do because he has to lead. But the problem is we were leading more with talking and less with doing. And then obviously you don't realize because not that the men are the smartest. Yeah. It's also the culture of Latin and Ballroom, really, which has been going on for years and it's still going on where the man is the one who holds the power. So if a couple is great, it's because the man led it to be like that.

If there's money to come in, it goes through the man and then he will decide whether to share it with a woman. Not all the time, but it's the culture. Even now when we talk about decision-making. Because you take the decision into the performance, into the leading, into the dance. And obviously you just transport the same idea into the normal. life and into the relationship. Yeah. And I think that we have to see where we are good at the, we are not.

So be a good leader on the floor, but maybe be a good follower outside the floor. And that's a difficult task. Now, Maury is talking about being macho in one area of the relationship, which is him on the dance floor, but not necessarily in other areas, is very important to understand because what he's in essence saying is that he has his boundaries, around the areas of the relationship that he wants to lead, but he's also willing to accept other areas where he will not be the leader. This in modern definition is really called an egalitarian relationship.

And this is something that's considered to be more of a modern relationship that many people want to get to a place of. And that is, how do I lead in certain areas and have my partner lead in certain areas? The best way to do this is first understand the areas you want to lead in. And that means that you have to understand who you are, what your values are, what your goals are, what your boundaries are, and you have to be willing to talk about it. This is why having these conversations around the roles in the relationship are so important before the full-on committed relationship begins. These are the conversations we need to be having when we are dating because it's the answers to these conversations that allow us to know if we have the right partner. Okay, let's go back to where Marius is talking about being a strong leader on the dance floor

and how he doesn't necessarily take that same role in the relationship. This is interesting. So how did your trust in communication in your personal life? What do you learn from your dancing? We learn that he leads in the studio. And that's where it stays. No. No, it's a mixture.

It's a mixture. It's a mixture. And now we mix it up. It's the balance. I like to say that and she's like, ah, balance is rubbish. Of course, sometimes you have to lose the balance in order to have fun and to thrive in something because otherwise if you're too balanced, it can be a little bit static.

You have to go to dynamic balance then. But yeah, I think that was what we started to see. How much can we go out of balance in one side? I mean, when she was doing strictly, she was focused 24-7 on the show. in order to, in her position, especially as a woman to weigh strictly, it's not the easiest job in the world. And she had to go out of balance, I say that. And then I had to balance her when she came home. Yeah, I think it's the roles that had to change, like who's leading and what.

And I think in the beginning, it would always be typically, like I said, the culture would be the man. But we had to learn that there are moments where I will lead and there are moments where I will lead, and there are moments where he will lead. There are moments where I don't have the capacity to do it or I'm too exhausted and he has to step up. And the same thing for me. And not to necessarily fall into general roles, but into leadership roles that work for us.

Yes, yes. It's exactly how we do now with our child. It's the same. It's very, very disturbing to see when I'm traveling with her alone that people are watching. I mean, weirdly, why is only the father with a child, where is the mother? And I'm like, are you serious? Yeah.

Do you really think that I'm so incompetent in dealing with a child as a father? Yeah. I'm like, wow. But we also had to, we had our own discussion where we were talking about mother instinct. Because he's like to me, you have a mother instinct. I'm like, yeah, but that is investment. That is time. That's an excuse.

Yeah. And I was like, that means you're saying to me, I have to do most of the stuff. And you don't have to because you don't have this instincts that has been told to everyone. But if you spend enough time with her and you hear the different cries and you see when she needs to eat, you will have your father instinct. And we should just take away mother and father and just call it instinct. You will have it. But don't just lump it on me and say, oh, well, you can do this because of your mom.

I was like, no, I had to learn. And I don't want to learn and teach you. I'd rather we both learn it together. And we've worked on it. And it's amazing where I'm just like, if I'm working, if I'm promoting our tour, if I'm doing something and I have a week of back-to-back work, he can take the baby and travel the world and I'll still be okay with that it's okay. And if everybody goes, but you're the mama, I'm like, yeah, but he's the papa.

Yes. We were both in this together. And it's great. It's really nice. And for me, it's really beautiful to see she doesn't want anyone on this planet, but this man. Oh, really? This guy is water, his food, he's everything. And I love that, you know, he is her first love.

And he has these instincts. He knows when she's hungry. He knows when she needs to sleep. He knows her sleeping schedule. And we stick to it. And we stick to it as a team. And it's, again, it's leaving. When does he lead? And when do I lead? If he's got the baby, I can carry the bags and wash and clean or do my work. If I've got hurt, he can do the same thing. Yeah. That's that's teamwork. Teamwork. You know, and also that is, I think, a prime definition of an interdependent relationship where you're not dependent on each other. You're not independent, right? What you are is you're working as a team. It's give and take its back and forth. And it seems like you have that down. And it's because of the communication, right?

Now, when you got married, you were married in, well, you were married in Denmark. Yes. But you were both living in Germany at the time. So at what point did you decide to move from Germany to the UK? Because I got Strictly Come Dancing. So I did strictly Germany for one year. And I was scouted, discovered a few months later. And within three months I had moved to the UK.

2015. 2015. Yeah. And we initially, we were not, we hadn't fully 100% moved to the UK because you never know. Sometimes he can get fired. Sometimes you're not good enough. So I was still living in two countries. And you don't know if you wouldn't really like it.

Yes. You have to just. It's a new culture. It's a new life. So I moved over. And because he had built like 15 years worth of relationships and dance schools and dance kids, I didn't expect him to just up. and leave everything and come with me.

So we still very much lived in different countries and we would do the back and forth until, I would say, lockdown, really, where we had to just decide. This is the, I mean, we couldn't travel. Actually, our studio, we planned to open our studio in April 2020. In the UK.

In the UK. And then March, we came the first lockdown. And we postponed for September. And then we started actually with strict. having in our studio. They rehearsed in our space. And then this is how we opened the studio in September. Yeah, September 20, 2020.

We have four years now, yeah. Okay. So now this must have been a huge decision. Oh, my gosh. That's another life. That's another part. Yes. It's the same thing when I moved to Germany.

So he was very, very supportive. He was like, go for it. This is amazing opportunity. This is fantastic. You just never know. No, you know, just go for it. My family, we're like, no. Really?

Yeah. Why? Because, again, I'm doing something that's never been done before. I'm moving to another country. I don't have the protection of my sister. I don't have any family. I don't have anyone except my husband. And you being the smaller, the youngest sister.

I'm the baby. I'm the baby of the family. So for them, that was also another we don't approve of this move. And it was another, I'm still. going to do what I want. I see you don't listen to anybody. No, why. And I realized, actually, after having the baby,

and it's something that, like, I feel myself a lot more. If you tell me not to do something, now I have to do it. Yes. I have. I can see this about it. And I didn't realize it's doing the research on both of you, but now it's screaming at me how ambitious you both are and how you feed each other's ambition.

You know, I can feel it, like right now. And that's such an important value, I think, to have alignment in. I also think it's incredible because in Germany, so you had already built up a brand and recognition in Germany. You had built up a brand full career right in Germany. But you're taking the risk to go to the UK and that you're supporting this. So you come and absolutely crush it. It took a while. Yes.

But, but, but, but. But can you say, do you feel like you crushed it? I do. I do. But I know, I think saying that kind of, I know what you mean, but I feel like it diminishes the hard work. Okay. When people say you crushed it.

Because every time I talk to someone, they go, my gosh, you won the bigger show on television twice. And I'm like, yes, but it did a lot. Like, it took five years to get there. It's, I think strictly is not a TV show. It's a lifestyle. It's a lifestyle choice. It is all you think about 24-7. It's all you do.

You're on tour. You're doing other strictly associated shows. You're not really 100% in the marriage because there's this goal, this trophy that is handmade, by the way. It's handmade. But there is this thing and you're fixated on it. And it was five long years of hard work. And I loved it because that's how I am.

I have to say that. I loved it because that's the type of person I am. I'm obsessed with something. I'll do anything to have it. But when I look back at the two years and I think it took five years to get there, was that five years worth it? Yes, because it made me very resilient, made me extremely resilient.

But it was a long five years. and we needed to rebuild our priorities or my priorities. What is the, we did like a camp where they asked us what our priorities were and how you list them means and how your partner list them. And when you did that's Tony Robbins, sir. Yeah, Tony Robbins. We did Tony Robbins. And my priorities was work, career, and then love.

And he's were love, work and career. And we had to, we needed to switch that up. We needed to completely reorder that. You know, just by you saying that, right, I can feel. Yeah. I could feel. Feel it? I could feel it.

It was a lot. Yeah. But the one statement that you just said that has blown me away is that I couldn't be 100% in my marriage. Yeah. And you admitted to that. So five years where you could not be 100% into your marriage. Yes. So what does the marriage look like during the five years?

It looks like him traveling all the time doing the work. And when he's there, we are either choreographing a dance or we're talking about a dance or I'm in the shower crying that I can't teach this person. So it was a lot about me, really, in those years. I mean. You're just saying it's still. about me. No, but I don't think it's... Which is fine.

I'm more than that. But I think I don't, it just fell into the fact that it became... No, it was not about you. It was mostly about the show and how to do the best of you in the show. Yes. So it's a little different, but I knew it. I did the show. I'm in that

business. I knew how, what it takes to be successful dancer and choreographer in a show like that. So it was nothing new, but obviously it's tough and it hurts and it's not the easiest time, you know, but you see the end of the tunnel and you know it's... That there's an end goal?

Yeah. During the time, you knew what it took, but in the moment, did you feel as if OT was not 100% in the relationship? But I knew she's not going to be. I knew how she was. My personality. And I was like, you're not going to win if you're not like that. So what would I expect from somebody who wants to win?

It's like in every career. If you want to be there, you have to be there. You cannot be there and be to have the same achievement as the people that are there or present or doing the work, you know. So you have to do the work. We listen to a lot of mentors. and something that Will Smith said, and I think that's something that I took on, maybe a little bit too much,

was you have to go for plan A. You have to be so into plan A, so all around Plan A, that you don't even have time for Plan B because Plan B is not even an option. You have to. You have to. Yes, Plan B distressed from Plan A.

So in my mind, that said, everything else. I didn't communicate with my friends. I didn't communicate with my family. and communicate with my husband. It was just this one goal that I wanted to achieve so, so, so, so much. Luckily, the husband communicated. My husband is brilliant. Luckily my family is brilliant.

Luckily my friends are also, because those people around me that are like, they went, when she's doing this, we all have to just let it happen and then she will come back to us. But in those three months, it's all. encompassing. And I needed to have that tunnel vision. That's a stallion. Yeah. So from your family's perspective, I get it. Yeah. Your family, your blood, right? They know regardless you're coming back. Yes. From your husband's perspective, though, I would imagine that you don't know at 100% that she is coming back. I mean, we love what you do 100%, but we are happy to be back home. A job is not the whole package for your life. A job is a part of what you do. And it's great that you're doing something,

especially if you're something amazing and you inspire people and you are making people think more especially with Bill Bailey, if I think about. I mean, that was the biggest inspiration you could, you could have done especially in that time with the lockdowns. And so it's, it's obviously very, very, yeah, I was very proud of her. I mean, you cannot be not proud of somebody working hard. You know what I mean? Right. Right. Like, yeah.

During that time, because what's interesting is that I think your understanding of the profession and what it takes is what allowed you to have that trust to know what's required, right? I think someone who was not in the industry at all would have said, what's going on here? Yeah. You know? But you did. And I think there's so many blessings I can see woven into the relationship. But what was the lowest moment you think in that five-year period since it was so well.

I mean, to go back to that, you still have to be strong as a man and tell if you see a few guys running around there, you have to still to make sure that it's going to be not pretty if you're exaggerating with one of the other gestures. You still have to do that because it's part of communication, I would say. Oh, well. So did you have to communicate with other men? Of course. You did it?

You don't have to do a lot. A slight message. Yes, we teach and learn body language. So you don't have to speak so much in that sense. People understand. Not to what touch? I mean, how do you do that, given that? No, it's not necessary about the strictly partners

because OTIA, I think, was quite clear about how professional she is. It was not about the whole environment many times, you know. It's the entertainment business. I know. I know. But so. Special one. So you asserted yourself, though?

Yeah, how shall I say? I think it's just something that isn't that basic instinct of humankind, that you have to, you have the idea of protecting your family. You have that idea of protecting your relationship. And I think it's very natural. It's nothing, I don't think it's bad about it. And it's just the way how you communicate. I think that's maybe sometimes the wrong tool in communicating.

But yeah, I think it was important. important for us to be careful. Also for her when she's telling me, oh, mm-mm, I see that, I see, I see, I'm like, okay, okay, I don't see it, but yeah. You better stop. No, I think it's boundaries, right? It's also good, it's fun as well in the same time, you know, it's like, okay, because you still need to be a man and you still have to be a woman or to be kind of, yeah,

feel like you are living your life still, you still have a life, you're not defined by the relationship, You're not in the relationship, like, in a cage, like, oh, I'm, I cannot be myself, you know? Yeah. Because you flirted until 25, then you got married. Now flirting is off now. Off mode. Airplane mode. Can we spend a moment talking about whether or not you can be in a relationship

and still have physical attraction to someone outside of your partner? Well, most people would say you can't and you shouldn't, but I would say that is. is an unhealthy myth. You will notice that there are people who are physically attractive. This is a part of being a human being. But to Will Stor's point, and I think he made it poetically, and that is, do you do anything about it? And what he and his wife agreed to is that they would not.

And that is the point. Now, let's go back to where O.T. and Marius are talking about how they maintain their boundaries being in the entertainment industry. I think you need brain and heart. If you combine those two, you're fine. If you have one or the other, can be two business relations or can be too emotional relationship, so then you are in a

small or big issue. We have a few issues after that. I think it's, yeah, it's the balance again, I'm sorry. No, I agree. I 100% agree. I think it is brain and heart and and, and, where you are and how you feel and that sense of what do I have at home, that memory of going, what's worth what, what do I want to change. Sometimes what you have at home is not worth it, and it needs changing,

and sometimes it's worth saving. But the boundaries, I think, we also have such an open communication to say, that's not okay with me. And it's like, okay, fine. Stop. Yeah, I also think if you trust yourself, you trust your partner. Yes. I think I'll say this again.

It goes through you. If it doesn't go through your own capacity of trusting yourself, you're never going to trust anyone. Yeah. I mean, that's a fact, yeah. That's quite difficult to trust somebody. Everyone talks about the strictly curse. Yeah. What is the strictly curse?

So usually it happens when I think people come together. and they spend a lot of time together and they just end up having a relationship. But over the years, it has definitely redefined what that looks like. And I think people don't even bring it up anymore in a negative connotation because we have couples like Gemma and Gorka who now are married and they have two kids and they have a happy life together. We have Aliyah and Jeanette who are a couple. he left the show and now he's back together

and they portray what a family couple is on Strickley, Diane and Joe. It's when two strangers come together in the room and have a relationship. But it's over the years, in my opinion, it has definitely redefined itself. Yeah, I think the examples of what you did, that's not really the curse.

The curse is when you end up another relationship and then you start a new one, which is not very positive. I think it's a little bit more goes to the roots of that problem, which is if you're not stable enough in your own relationship, obviously, like I said before, like for us, it happens through dancing, it happens faster. But eventually it happens. So it's not going to be the strictly curse, it's going to be going to the library curse.

Yes. Or going to the shop course, which will take probably a few months, not a few dances. Exactly. Because this is the highway, the dancing is the highway of the way. the relationship. Yes, it's really close. And the other one is the normal 20 miles per hour zones. It takes a bit longer, but the curse is there.

If you want it, you get it. Yeah, I love it. You go to the grocery store curse. It's like, you're right, but you're right. If you spend a long time with someone, it could possibly happen. Yeah, I mean, in psychology, you know, we have what's called the mere exposure effect, the self-expansion, the law of propinquity. All of these essentially state that the law.

longer that you're with someone, the more familiar you become with that person, the more familiar you become the safer you become, the more you're willing to emotionally open up and trust. And if you have an unstable relationship somewhere else, and all of a sudden now you can trust someone, of course, it moves over. So this is, I agree with you, this happens in all aspects of our life. And this is the reason why it's so important to focus on what's happening at home. Yeah. Yes. And And that's why love is on the first place. That's why love is in the first place. Because love is closer to you.

Career is a bit farther away from you. You asked us, why are we together? I think the question is, the answer is we're so similar in the way we think, the way we approach situations and how driven we are. And that is one thing that I loved about Maris is that he's not just a Latin dancer. You know, he's an entrepreneur. We have property companies. He's an investor.

So he's not just, this is the only thing I'm going to do. He just opens his two brain like that. And I'm the same. Morris was there for me a lot when I had the tough moments. I think I had a celeb who I just couldn't get to love the job as much as I wanted, you know, as much as I desired. I think the end goal of the two of us was, not the same. And there was one moment where he found me in our apartment and I was in the shower

and I was crying with my clothes still on. I just walked into the shower and then sat down water on, crying on the floor. Because I was like, if I don't get this right, I think in my head, it felt I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough in my job. All of this pressure that I have, I'm representing black women. I'm representing African women. I'm like all of that. I stand for so much. If I can't get this job done, I'm not good enough.

I don't deserve to be here. That was like, for me, the lowest moment. And in that moment he came in and he got in the shower fully close and he picked me up and he just hugged me and held me. And like he said, it's just a job. It's just a job. You have family. You have friends.

You have me and you have food. We can go eat. All right. Who doesn't love food? Right? And this is actually the point. What Marius has just done is he's performed a master class in communication and making his partner feel affirmed.

This is ultimately what humor does. And remember, humor is a component of communication. So it's not necessarily about you feeling like you have to make your partner laugh. It's about you helping your partner understand that you know how they feel. And that's exactly what Marius did. What Marius just did is he affirmed his partner. This is something that every successful partnership does is they affirm their partners, especially in times of need.

And in that moment, I realized that no matter how much I have this career and I love it, and I love the show and I absolutely love being on it and everything it encompasses. At the end of the day, I get to go home to the things that make me me. It is not who I am, it's what I do. Yes. And that took, it took a while,

took the next series for me to get another celebrity who was much fun and I was like, you know what, I don't really care about winning, let's just have fun, for me to fall in love with the job again in a completely different way. to fall in love with my husband again in a completely different way, to be more communicative with my friends and my family.

That one moment of just seeing him being like, I'm home, I'm going to get in the trenches with you, we're going to work through it, and we're going to reassess our priorities. I think it was the lowest moment that he pulled me out of. Can I say that was one of the most beautiful stories. Oh. supporting your partner.

Yes. That was, that was incredible. From your perspective, what was the lowest moment? I mean, I wouldn't say, the thing is I like to, maybe, you're very positive.

No, but I try to think what's gonna, what's gonna come, what's gonna be next? Because our lives are not so spectacular, even if you are in the, in the business of, yeah, public eye, but it's just still a life that is manageable from, you know more or less what's going to be next. I mean, in like in a career, in a sports career,

you know the seasons, you know, you know, the levels, the checkpoints, you know, all of that is 99% of the people doing that are going through those. So probably you're going to have. that route and of course the more you put in, the more you're going to get out. Yes, it's very, very simple as that. So not that I was surprised, obviously you are emotionally, so it's much more difficult to see that clearness in the plan. But yeah, I had to just be there. So it's not, it's not very difficult to be there. It's just difficult to understand what the other one is going

through because obviously you don't feel it. Plus, she was in the show more emotional than me. I'm more, maybe working more from the brain side. And I'm trying to understand from a different perspective. To feel, I think that's difficult to do. Yes. That's difficult to just be like, I feel you. I know what you're going through because you're not really,

you cannot know. You're not. The hit was not on you. The hit was on her. So you're saying, I know what you're feeling. You cannot feel. Even if you were hit before, it's always a very different situation, you know. Of course, I had my own moments when I moved from Romania to Germany.

It just shocks you and you don't have money and you don't know what you do. And you work in constructions for 200 German marks to pay your dance lessons. And then you go to university and then you work in all the jobs in the world just to finance your dream. It's a lot of lowest moments. But when I met her, I was already 30. So I already had a lot of students. So I had an income. I had like stable income and everything.

because, you know, dancers world, the stable income is a big word. Yes, yes. And yeah, from that point of view, I knew already I was successful. I had finalists, I mean, finalists of World Championship. So I had already built up from that sense. So I wasn't in that time of my life

where I had the really deep, where I was crying in my room, writing poetry or stuff like that. Right. You do three steps in cha-cha-cha, and then you're going to fall. It's normal. It's nothing.

Don't take it. Oh, my God. I'm the worst dancing. The world because I felt on the fourth step. Like you said before, 50% of the dancers do the fourth, fifth step already wrong because it's difficult to do so many good steps. Yes. You do one, good second, good three.

Oh, that's bad. That's a bad one. That's a bad. Okay, let's start again. Yes. And then you build it up slowly. So it's, I don't know. I'm just, you know, I believe it.

He's also very logical and I'm very emotional. So to me, you could be wearing black. And I'm like, oh my gosh, the whole room was black. The whole world was black. And he'd like, no, there was a man and he was wearing black. Yeah, calm down. It's not that big of a deal. So even if I'm feeling very emotional and it's a big deal to me, he has the mental capacity.

And maybe, maybe, I don't want to say he doesn't have emotionally intelligent, but he's emotional intelligent enough to remove the emotion. Sometimes there's too much emotion in the situation, and he can just remove it and be like, let's just think about what we have, what are the steps, and how we can change that. Yeah, and that's that logical order. Yes. I've got a very exciting announcement. But first, I want to ask you if you know which part of dating most of us worry about.

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Yeah. All right. So let's paint the picture. You've crushed it. And then there was no shower crying anymore. Then there was just multiple trophies. Oh, multiple trophies.

Not one. Multiple trophies. I've got a plethora of them. Yeah. Thank you. Oh, my God. She said a pletero of trophies out here. All right.

So you plethora of trophies. Yes. That means you're crushing it. We're done. We're over. You're crushing it. So now I would imagine plethora of trophies. Yes.

Means that there is an increase in attention. Yes. Increase in fame. Yes. An increase in money. Mm-hmm. St humbled. Right? So all of these things are increasing. Okay. All these things are increasing. Yes. Do you at any point in that time become the breadwinner in the household? I mean, in the entire time throughout of this, I was the breadwinner. Okay. So from the moment I moved to the UK, I was.

Okay. So the moment you moved to the UK, that was another big pressure. Now, take me back to Romania for a second. Because I was looking at, at something called the global gender index, right, where it looks at the inequities between men and women in different countries around the world. And I saw that that gap between men and women in terms of health care, in terms of education, in terms of social movement, is super wide in Romania and one of the widest in the world. So it ranks one of the lowest on this scale. I think 104, it ranks out of 146 countries, which to a lot of people suggest areas where there could be high levels of misogyny, patriarchy, etc. On average, the men are going to be the breadwinner. Yes, you could say that. Okay. Yes. So what I would love to know is you not being

the breadwinner. What is your perspective? I mean, what type of bread are you eating? Yeah. I mean, it sounds like it's a plethora of bread. It's a plethora of bread. There's lots of bread. There's lots of bread. But but but but but the reason why I think this is such an important question is because we're living in a day and age where especially women under the age of 35 in the UK and the US and many parts of the West are out earning men out educating men and there are a lot of men that are like hold up. I don't want to deal with this. you were dealing with this, right? And you like this.

So what's your take on living, still, we live in a patriarchy, but not being the breadwinner? I don't like to follow. Maybe that's something. That's why you asked me about football before, and I'm like, I'm not a fan, really. If you're a fan of a team, I'm going to be, I'm going to go to that game.

I will love that team in 10 minutes, I'm sure if they show heart and soul, I'm sure we're going to be supporting that team. So I'm not so blinded by what other people are saying, I think. I don't like to listen really. I still remember from our dance career when they were important coaches giving us feedback after the competition.

I was just, when I smell bullshit, I'm off. I'm going, I'm not staying long because I don't have time for that. My life is too short too. to listen to, so I never followed anything. Like, it seems like OT, maybe that's why we are like that. I mean, you're telling me that this is not possible. That's like that. This is I should do what you do.

Are you insane? Like, why would I do, like, why? If everybody goes to the right, should I go with, like, what are the chances that I'm going to do something incredible if I go with all of you to the right? I'm going to go to the left. How do you view? So this is a term that is debated a lot now.

masculinity. How do you define masculinity? Oh. I think a definition of masculinity would be, like I said before, it went from a job, a physical job, to a job that you use your brain much more. So I think because of that, now you have to be just mature enough, I would call it, as a man. You have to grow up as fast as possible, be mature,

and just try to do the best for yourself and for your And that's it. And the best means that you have to be there. You have to maybe sometimes do that. Sometimes, so they are, I think it's much more spread in more categories now, before you had your two, three tasks and you are super happy. And people are still speaking so much about that. And I'm like, I cannot hear it anymore. What you should do as a man, or what makes, it's just, it's just total nonsense.

And I'm, I'm not appreciating what people are just saying, you know, you know you have to do all the generations. Always mom. You're like, yeah, you have to do. I'm like, no, I don't have to do anything. And if I want to do that, I'm going to do that. And if I don't put me in categories what I can or I should or I have to do as a man because a man is so much more complex nowadays.

Before it was we were basic. Before we were basic hunters, yeah, and protect us. So we had two jobs, two, three jobs. Now we have maybe 10, 15 jobs. And I think it's more relaxed. for the women. And now they can also spread a little bit there from cooking, taking care of the kids of the household. Now they can have a career. They can go out. They can have fun. They can, you know. So I think we just have to be faster grownups as men. I want to talk about your beautiful daughter. Okay. I've seen from behind,

but I know. I can see. I can see. I can see. But it sounds like a similarity at least that my wife And then you had OT was that the pregnancy was challenging. Yes. So what was it about the pregnancy that was so far? Do you know what? The pregnancy itself was beautiful, but actually caring of her was amazing. But we had a spontaneous birth, or I had a spontaneous birth where we were going shopping on our way to the doctor, actually. We were going shopping.

And my water was just broke. Like in the middle of the street, it just broke. And that because I, and maybe it's my psychological way of thinking, because I don't have any other experience of what birth looks like, it didn't necessarily seem traumatic to me at the time. It just felt like, okay, this thing is happening. I just have to remain calm and my daughter's potentially coming. I think I felt afterwards that, oh my God, that was intense. And when you look at milestones and you see how the milestones of premature kids develop and you see how term kids develop, I have to be very, very understanding because all our friends, the kids are running around and ours is now starting to get there. And so the trauma came after, but the pregnancy itself was beautiful.

One thing that I did try and I don't try to do anymore was prove that I'm still competent, I'm still good enough. I wanted to prove that pregnant women can work. We can dance. I was working so many jobs at that time. And now I sit here and I think, why did I do that? Like, who the hell was I trying to prove that I can still work on television and I'm still intelligent, that I can still bounce, that I can still go to.

And I'm like, why was I doing all of that? You did it for yourself. I did it for myself. You did that moment, you knew that and you didn't want to be out of your whole career, which is very normal. I don't think that's a problem. Obviously, now you're more relaxed. You learn from those feelings.

And now you would do maybe a bit different. But still in that moment, there was the best decision you could take. So you're fine. And I was very stubborn. As you can tell, very stubborn. No, not enough. I don't believe it. I don't believe.

When they told me I had gestational diabetes because I had gestational diabetes and they were like, you need to take these medications and you need to maybe possibly go on insulin. And I just thought my parents, my family, they all have diabetes in my head. If I do it now, I'm going to have to do it for the rest of my life. But I'm resilient. My body is my tool. I'm a dancer. I can control myself.

And I didn't. And I told myself that. I could do this. And I always question myself, had I just listened to the doctors and taken the, you know, the diabetes, would it have taken my sugar down? Is that maybe a reason why I gave birth early? Like, I had all these questions going through my head of how would I redo it? If we're lucky enough to have another baby, am I going to sit at home now and wait

and do everything the doctors tell me so that I don't have a spontaneous birth again? Yes. And again, I questioned myself, why was I doing that? What was the purpose? What did I gain? What did I learn from that? And that was the thing that I find difficult now is the afterthought. So how do you think that your daughter's premature birth has impacted you both emotionally?

Huge. Definitely, you are much more impacted than me because I trust doctors. I trust. We knew we were one in the best hospitals. We could be for her being a premature born baby. So I knew there's nothing better we could do. And I saw other premature babies, which if they would have been on that week in Romania, for example, they wouldn't even save the baby.

I'm like, that lady is lucky. Yes. We are lucky. So let's just appreciate it. Yeah. And the NHS were brilliant. And trust them. But I would imagine it must have been incredibly challenging because one thing I've

definitely learned about both of you is that you're planners, right? And you're good at managing what's happening in and around you. But here was a moment that you couldn't control at all. And we didn't know what we were doing. I think a lot of parents say they have the baby, they keep them an hospital for two days, and they go, we had the baby and the baby was sick. She can breathe on her own,

she can eat on her own. She was really small. And those images with those we couldn't hold her. Yeah. And the nose and it was like, wow. So that was incredibly, incredibly tough.

And for me, especially I just, she was my baby, you know. I wanted to be there every single step of the way. And I was there. And there were moments where she was doing really great. And then there were moments

she wasn't doing really great. There were moments where she would eat and then the moments that she wouldn't eat. And like he said... And up and down, which they were changing tubes from a stronger to a weaker one from air, from oxygen. You're like, oh my gosh, what's going on?

And feeding her was really, really tough. And the last step before she gets released is that she needs to be able to eat on her own. And I was there all the time and she wasn't doing it. Not through the tubes, because it was through a tube, which is also... And then he said to me, you sometimes do need to trust and trust that the NHS know what they're doing.

Maybe you just need to relax, just a little bit. And don't force it. And don't force it. Because if she gets earlier out of the hospital, it's not necessary. And so we decided for like a few days that I would leave the hospital early and just relax. Go home, chill, just pray and just like just relax. I should develop like that. That's interesting.

When you would go, I mean, that's a lot of strength to be able to leave. To leave your baby. When I left, the hardest thing, the hardest, oh, and I remember the hardest thing was, it was over Christmas. And the whole nation, it felt like the whole nation was so happy. It's Christmas. It's the happiest time of the year. And we love radio. I listen to radio all the time.

And they're like, it's Christmas. It's the happiest time of the year. And I was like, this is the worst point of my life ever. And I hated everything. And I was just like, this is horrible. How can, in this world, this beautiful thing, Christmas happened. And there are people in the world that we don't actually think that for them, Christmas is the toughest time of the year.

And I just, I cried. I cried for an hour. This is not fun. I hate Christmas in Europe. I hate it. I want to go. And that was so, so, so, so tough. And he was just like, patience, it will happen.

And he's like, that girl, he still says it today. He's like, she's got such incredible willpower. Such incredible. She wanted to come out early. She wanted to be with us. She wanted you to see her growth. Everything that's happened is happening because she wanted it. And I had to be like, and it calmed me down a little bit.

So what day does she come home? 24th of December. Just before Christmas. Just before Christmas. So look at that Christmas present that you guys. Honestly, that day for like the longest day of my life, I was like, can we just get out of this place? Get me out. The eyes and ear test.

Yeah, we're going to do the sound and then we're going to do ears. And then you can have some tea. And I was like, I'm not hungry. I want my baby home. What is the top lesson that you've learned now that your parents? The top one? There's so many. What are the top?

The top lessons. I think for me, as a woman, important. Because we get from society a lot, this word or phrase of snapping back, body-wise. that that's not that is you do not need to snap back you do not need to or they say

to feel like yourself again you do not need to feel like the old version of you because the new version right now is fucking brilliant sorry they are so brilliant and I had to learn that

that that old version cannot provide for my child now. This version of me, the body that I have now has provided me with this beautiful human being and the personality that I am now, the way that I have to

be there for my husband, be your wife, be your mom, be a sister, be a friend, the new version of me is perfect and it works and it is good enough. That's the biggest lesson that I learned that. It's hard but who you are right now

is good enough. And I think a lot of moms don't hear that. The first thing you hear is how tough it is, which it is. You hear how now you need to get back or, oh, are you going to have the second one? But rarely do you hear that where you are right now is enough and you're good enough and you're doing okay. You're doing it actually brilliantly. Yes. You know what on that? Can I ask is that I do see, especially on Instagram, you know, these photos of, you know, just have my child. You know, six weeks ago. And I'm walking on the stairmaster a week ago. Yes.

Yes. So that's what you're referring to is. Yes. Okay. And I think because I didn't decide, because again, we went through this whole traumatic thing, I just decided, you know what? This is my body. I'm breastfeeding is difficult, trying to actually get the food for the baby out of your body. It's so difficult.

If you have to work, if you have to provide for your family, if you have to do all, these things, it's so difficult. And fixing my body right now is the last thing that I want to do, but I also want to be healthy. Yes. Which is what does not fixing your body also look like? And I started later. I'm only now on my, let's get healthy train right now. And it took about nine, eight months for me to get there. But you see a lot of people, models, actresses that I feel actually are even thinner than what they were when they had the baby. It's almost like they want to erase that time of like, I was big, I was swollen, my body was providing for a human being.

And I just felt like I don't want to put myself under that pressure because she is going to see and hear the things and how I talk to myself and internally and unconsciously speak like that to herself and about herself as well. Yes. All right. Just a couple more here. We started talking about culture. How do you think that your origin cultures have now impacted how you parent? Oh, wow. For me, there's a lot to impact our culture. Culturally in South Africa, I told you we have that family dynamic, which is something that I do not wish to bring into our house. I don't want, this is important. Like, I don't want that hierarchy.

I want her to be able to have, and that's why I think I push so much their relationship. I want her to be able to go to my husband with a problem. I want her to not be scared. I want her to not be scared to say her opinion, to say no, no, mommy, no daddy. I don't want that. I want her to have those boundaries and to have that line. And I love that in the Romanian culture, you cannot touch the relationship between the daughter and the father. Like the men in Romania are so paternal, so maternal.

Like I think it was the first time I went to a country and I saw a group of men in prems walking with their children ever. And bringing their kids to practice. And done schools. It's the dads that are there. The girls, yeah, they dress the girls. Yeah, they dress the girls up. They do their girls' hair. Do their hair?

Yeah, they're like, I'm going to cook for my daughter. No, I don't want to hang up with you. Yeah, I don't want to hang with you. My daughter's waiting for me at home. And that, again, is one of the things I went, oh, I like, Romanian men. I just know they did that. And culturally, that is the thing that I,

and I'm not saying that my dad is amazing. My dad is absolutely amazing. But that cultural way of living is not what I would want to do. do. But what I do love about my family and what I do want to bring is, and we talk about this, that positivity, we have a good time as a family. We smile, we love music, we love singing, we love dancing. We're very competitive. Don't come over for Christmas for game night because that's intense. But that joy that we have and we love with each other and we respect and and protect like lions for each other.

That I bring that 100%. Like I want her to be joyous. I want her to be open. I want her to be friendly. I wanted to be very social. I wanted her to be very smart and goal-orientated. And I think culturally, that's something I want to bring into our family. So what would you have done differently if you were to go back and relive your career?

Any regrets? I would have split my focus between things that really matter and things that are just a job. Yeah. And I would have had my daughter earlier. Oh, interesting. Yeah. That's a shock. Because now I'm like, I'm not old.

Now I'm still 34, but I'm like, oh my God, I wish I had more time. I wish I had done this earlier and I had more time. I think it was the perfect time personally. For you, that's me. For me. I'm like, I would have wanted her early as well. Yeah. But I think for you was the perfect time.

Yes. That's my observation. Yeah, but because I work in television and it's, it is so easy for that whole career to just be swept under your feet, like everything can go. The best thing right now, I think for a lot of people to do is invest in yourself. Really, instead of buying that bag, go buy a bag. books and read, the diary of a CEO. Instead of going out and party, take that little bit of money and invest it towards the mortgage. Take the time.

Take the time to listen to a podcast, to listen to something educational. Invest in yourself. It doesn't matter how small, how big. And the biggest thing that we have is our dance school. And that's what was my first step. I think because we always had coaches, mentors, so that's always something that I did a mentorship with properties as well, mentorship with somebody from Tony Robbins,

but the psychology side is almost zero. So you have to teach, if you have the right ideas and you read and you try to be better, that's interesting. Then you're good, but literally, this is changing what's happening here. Everywhere.

Yeah. And not this because we in the dancing, we go from the body language and the body language and the body development to the brain, and we're like, oh, now I get it. This takes a long. Yes, yes. Just go from here into here.

No, you always say, just make the decision. Yeah, make the decision. Exactly, somebody to help you to take a decision or to just guide you, you don't. What challenges your relationship the most now? I think time. Time. We both have a lot going on.

It's about time and time. time management because we have our baby. It's quality time and I think is we want to spend time with her. Yes. She doesn't take time. Yeah, yeah. We really want to spend as much time as possible with her. But then what does that also look like if I'm exhausted and it's my turn to have time

with her and then he has to work. So the challenge is he's like, I need to work, O.T. You know, you had four days where it was, I did my bid. now it's my turn and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm tired. So it's managing and prioritizing and respecting each other's time because we are doing it just us. We don't have extra help. We don't have any family here.

It's just us. So time is the challenge of us time, his own time, work time, family time, baby time. And that can create sometimes conflicts with mainly, with me. How do you then balance work and parenting and life? I think we're still figuring it out. Are you on Spudition? No, we're figuring out.

But because we really know our priorities, like we said before, from there, you start to cut from here, you cut from there after that. Plus, yeah, you just have to sleep sometimes. You really have to sleep. So I need an hour, please. Put sleep as a priority sometimes because it's okay. Can I say, I love you, man.

I told you. I told you. I am. I know. You'll end up like, oh, my gosh, everyone in my life does that. Mario, what's men to you? Yes.

Can I underscore why I love that? It was a bit of a set-up question, right? Because I personally don't believe in balance. between parenting. I don't believe balance between life or balance between work. Instead, it's about prioritizing what is most important to us and learning to cut the fat, learning that not everything is for you. Yeah. And once you understand what is not for you, you understand what actually is. And what matters. Final question. I thought you were going to forget. No, no, no. Final question. And this is, this is to me personally, this is my most important question.

And every guest gets this. You both have had some incredible conversations throughout your life, especially with each other. But when you think back to the most memorable conversation that you've had, who was it with and what did you talk about? Not with each other. No. I had with one of my first coaches, if I may start. And it was actually about dancing,

but in the end, actually, it was about life. He said, the person who is lost on the dance flow is going to be the winner. But he didn't say of the competition. That was it. And I was like, okay. And then after a while, it was one world champion and Blackpool winner, actually, he was winning nine times.

And then after we finished practice, It was a dance camp in Freiburg in Germany. He was still practicing in front of the mirror. He was the last one in the room. And I was like, this guy said, but he is the best, like miles away from everybody else. And he's still practicing. So he's the last in the room. And then I had a few situations like this throughout my life.

And I was like, oh, that guy is the last there. So he's going to be probably the one who is the best in that. And then I think it's something like, yeah, that was something that I always, I always remember, don't have expectations if you're not there. You know, like, you know. I received it. He should have finished, you know. Now you're going to end the podcast.

That's not what about this is. This is the competitiveness. You don't have to be. You don't have to be such a good. Maybe just edit it around. Okay. We'll go first. We're going to pretend that I'm starting.

So if I may go first, please. Okay. Oh my gosh. I think I've had many, many conversations. My dance coach from South Africa said, whatever you put in is going to be a reflection. So if you put in that 100%, you will get 100%. And everything that everyone tells you, pulling down,

you have to do the exact opposite because there you will find your equilibrium. Do exactly the opposite of what everyone tells you. and stick to your core and you have that cordage. You know, watching these interviews, reading press articles, I think a question pops up that says, okay, they share dance, but what else do they share? I'm walking away saying that you two are essentially each other.

I mean, you two share priorities, values, direction. You both are rebels. You are perfect for each other. I joined you We think we are different but actually we are the same You know what We think we are different

Yeah We are very similar We're just different in what we're achieving But we are very very similar And I am the rebel I love that you're saying that I am the rebel of my family I would say

A lot of decision making And him too Yes They do not agree with Probably 95% We spent 95% giving advice from our family and then we spend the other 5% being angry at them. Yes. Because we're like, why give us advice?

Because we're never going to listen. Yeah. Well, let me leave you with this. Just imagine what your daughter is going to do to you. Just imagine what. She's going to be great. She's not going to listen to a word that you say. Do not watch.

Stop watching. Stop watching. That's it. imagine how much of a rebel your daughter is going to be. She already is, to be honest. Honestly, she already is. Which is fine because we're going to make us smart enough to be smart rebel. Yes.

That's going to be the upgrade. We let have been mad and we just. Smart rebel. Yeah. Good stuff. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Wow. What an amazing conversation. O.T. and Marias are truly inspiring and I feel so grateful to them for coming into this studio to share this very honest and personal glance into their lives. I hope you enjoyed this conversation and after having a think, I would like to share some of my key takeaways. So my first takeaway from this conversation is cultivate a partnership where instead of being independent or dependent on each other, you are interdependent. It's clear that OT and Marius work together as a

cohesive team while maintaining their own individual identities and strengths. This balance has allowed them to navigate life's challenges and responsibilities in a way that has really strengthened their bond while also supporting each other's growth in their personal lives and careers. Number two, ensure both of your priorities are aligned with love and your relationship at the forefront, followed by your work and career. The intentional reordering of priorities that OT and Marius took has helped them to maintain a healthy balance and prevent their professional ambitions from overshadowing the needs of their partnership. Regularly reassess your priorities to ensure your relationship remains the foundation upon which you build your lives together. Number three,

cultivate a relationship where you both feel empowered to set and respect each other's boundaries. O.T. and Marius have open and honest dialogues about their boundaries and support each other in upholding them. Healthy boundaries foster trust, understanding and the freedom to grow. together. And number four, and I love this one, and don't forget, as Maria says, have trust in yourself. Trust in a relationship starts with trusting yourself. If you don't have confidence in your own judgment and instincts, it becomes harder to fully trust your partner. Building self-trust is the first step to fostering deeper trust in any relationship.