We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - "Real Housewives Was The Downfall Of Our Marriage" PK Paul Kemsley

Episode Date: August 13, 2026

Paul Kemsley sits down with Paul to reveal the reality of filming The Real Housewives of Beverley Hills with ex-wife Dorit. (00:00) Intro (00:39) How PK Joined The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills (07:08) PK's Life Before The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills (09:07) How RHOBH Impacted PK's Family Life (12:00) The Behind-the-Scenes Politics of RHOBH (14:44) Why PK Left The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills (17:57) Does PK Love Himself Today? (20:29) PK Opens Up About Online Trolls and Reality TV Fame Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to We're Talking. In this episode, I sit down with Paul P.K. Kemsley to talk about his time on the real housewives of Beverly Hills, why he entered the world of reality TV, and what happens when you lose control of your own story? You have a strong relationship. Yeah. Okay. You are married, right?

Prior to the show. You have a beautiful child. Yeah. Right? And then even you professionally, I feel like you're now back. Yeah. You're not where you were. No, but we're doing okay.

You're doing okay, right, you're back. So you now have everything that you want. Why do you get involved in a franchise like that, right, with the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills? I think there were a lot of reasons. I had a very dear friend of mine who's another one of these super unbelievable kings of industry, this particular guy in the music business, but about as big as you can get. And when we went to L.A., he said to me, there are only three entry points in L.A. P.K., money, power, and celebrity.

That's what he told me. Okay. And I'm like, okay. He said, well, money, you've got to have the money you used to have. and then even and some and then build schools and do some of the charitable initiatives that you used to do because I was very involved in charities and stuff. Power, he said, you've got to own a studio, own a bank, being government.

So your quickest entry point, if you want to live in L.A. is celebrity. So when he says, if you want to live in L.A., he was talking about the recreation of potentially of what I had done previously and knowing that that was the world that I came from. So at that very time, one of the publicists that I was working with, I'm going to give her a name shout because I love her. Her name's Dawn Miller. Okay.

And she's a British girl that worked out of L.A. And she said, oh, P.K., they're casting for the housewives. Now, I've never seen the show, ever, didn't know anything about it. All I knew was that Lisa Vanderpump, who was my friend, was on it. That's all I knew. Right. And I said to Dere, I think she just had Phoenix. So this was, Phoenix is now 10.

So this is 10 years ago. Why don't you just go and do a reading, a cast, have a casting. So I learned up the casting. She came back, said it went horribly. And then three weeks ago, three weeks later, they came back. And they said, we'd like to film you guys at home. Okay. So what I do know is I know how to close a day.

deal. Yes. And that could be a real estate or whatever. Yes. So I said, right, this is what we're doing. We're filling the house with flowers. We're going to get the most eclectic group of guests around the table. We're going to stick boy, George in one corner, Pele and another, whatever. Do you know what I mean? We're going to have our friends and we're going to bring in entrepreneurs and it's going to be the richest guy in the room and the poorest guy in the room. This one can sing. Oh, this guy can't see, but he can paint. Do you know what I have to? And the backdrop too is because what I understand it, I mean, the house was... The house was spectacular.

The backdrop was great. I knew how to do it. So we did it. And as they said in England, Bob's your uncle. She got the gig. Now, whether or not,

I mean, that proved... I don't know, because we haven't seen the end of the movie yet. But I do know that that show was fun until it wasn't.

I was blind, to what was going on, what was happening. I didn't act soon enough. Okay. And because my personality is a double down guy, like I'm not, I don't like walking away from a bet. I used to double get, double, no, we'll get this bet, right. Yes.

Had no regard for the global awareness of this show, none. Literally none. And I think even now you look back 10 years ago, social media and Twitter was not then what it is now. Right. Right. The toxicity of it. You know, the fact that a lot of it is not even human beings commenting it's bots. And I know a lot about that now.

And, you know, the rest, unfortunately, is history. And I will maintain that I have absolute accountability for going down that avenue. you and I made some very significant mistakes in not acting when I saw it going wrong. Right. So then... You know, and I think that when you're asking me these questions, it's got to be about my perspective because Doreet's got her own perspective. And I'm not, as I've said a million times before,

she's the mother of my kids. Right. What she chooses to do and say about me is entirely up to her. her versions, her perspectives, her truth are her truth. It doesn't mean they're the truth. Right. They're her truth. Right.

I have my own. Right. I don't want that period of my life to define me. I don't want it to represent. Because the truth is, a lot of it is down to the editing. It is. And they create these scenarios that just didn't happen. Do you know what I mean?

And the accusations and the rumor and the hearsay and they, whip it up and they love it. But there are victims. Yeah, and I'm not calling myself a victim. I'm not a victim. I'm out of it. Yeah, it was uncomfortable. But I don't want our kids to be victims of those decisions. Yes. Do you understand?

I don't, and I won't allow that, right? And I won't allow, when I say I won't allow, I'm talking about, not in a controlling sense. I mean, in an emotional context, I will do my very best to not add fuel to what I'm trying not to allow.

Right, because you're trying to contain a fire. I'm trying to contain a fire, but I'm also saying, okay, well, that's not my fire anymore. You want to blow that fire up. You want to create that fire and live in that fire.

That's your choice. Right. I choose not to live in that fire anymore. All right, so then from just your relationship with television, if I look at that. So this is season, what is it, season seven of Real Housewives, 2016.

What was initially, what was your feel around reality TV? I, what was your take on it? I, first of all, believe that I had the most beautiful, charismatic, sharp, ferociously ambitious wife. And I wanted to show her off. Okay. And I also felt because I've always been able to control direct storyline, businesses. Yes.

You were in control. Previously. I thought I was in control. Okay. And even it's my simplistic, moronic position. And this is like, oh, P.K, you really are an idiot. I was like, it's kind of cool to be a celebrity. You get tables at the right time.

you know, I joked about this I joked about this with James Coulton when he asked me after one year he said, why'd you do that show? I said, well, I didn't want to be in the five to ten club. So he said to me, what do you mean? I said, well, when you come to L.A.

And nobody knows who you are and you want to get a table, they offer you five or ten. I see it. So I say, he goes, where are you now? I said, eight o'clock. He goes, yeah, I'm seven 45. He goes, do you know what I mean? And that was kind of funny for me.

me. Also, I'd been in the public worlds, but I've been public for many, many years. So for me, yeah, my ups and downs with publicity and all that, but I wasn't really on social media. Right. I wasn't aware of what that show can do. And I'm not blaming that show on my divorce or my relationship or who I think Doree is now versus who I think she was or who I am now. I think the biggest question I have that will never be answered is, is that direct where she was always going to be and always going to end up?

Or was I responsible for putting her in that world and then that world created what happened now? But there's no question that before we did that, like if you talk about it, happy times. I mean, I remember living in Tribeca, we had a beautiful apartment, Doreen me, and then we had the baby. And life was pretty fucking good. You know, I used to have this big TV. I used to watch my football on a Sunday, to eat my dinner on a Friday. We went and saw movies, took the baby for a walk. Who drove the bus into the wall? Me. Much like I had done many times in my life. but it's kind of like

the analogy is if you go and buy a candy store and then you say to your best friends and your lover and go and have what you want it's our candy go eat right you've got to realize there's going to be consequences

to that and you always rely on people to be aware and have certain disciplines and then you lose control of that you lose control of that whatever it is that thing that keeps moving forward and growing.

Yes. In a not always beautiful way and an ugly way. And then the show likes to go back and only talk about bad things. So then you start reporting on this and that. And I'm like, well, what about that? And then they build up this vision

of who you are as a person, who you are as a couple. And then you start repeating it. Oh, really. Start believing it. And then suddenly you find yourself, what are you talking about? I'm nothing like that guy.

What are they showing? I'm nothing like the person they're showing. And then I'm looking at my wife and saying, like, who are you? Right? It's like, it's scary when you look at it. Yes, yes. And you lose control of that thing. Oh, that thing.

So my wife and I, in 2011, way back, we were offered a reality TV show to follow our Right. Yeah. And I was all for it. I was like, this is great. We should do it. My wife said, no. It's going to destroy us because we could lose ourselves.

And what you're just saying to me is that it's this depiction of you. It sounds like what you're saying is that you lost yourself. There was a storyline that's created that's not you. It's bits and pieces. bits and pieces of who you are, what the relationship is, is, and then, you know, I'm in reality TV. There's a double down on that storyline.

We know that if it bleeds, it leads, so we know that the negative always rises to the top. But then I think what's so hard for me with Real Housewives in particular is that there's multiple people in the show. I'm sure there's a competition for the A No, of course. Yeah, the A-story line.

And that's getting even worse. I mean, what I see now is fractured relationships, fractured friendship, broken marriages, sadness, money issues, health issues. And they're all doubled and trebled. And some of them are steeped in truth and some of them have no truth. and the audience seemed to enjoy watching implosion and then they picked their side and they believe they know what they know because they listen to what somebody's saying.

I mean, one of the weirdest things for me and it took a lot of discipline, but I made a decision not to talk about it. I'm not, you know, we've spoken, we've spoken in very generic terms. Yes. You know, I'm not going to come out and start saying, that's not true, that's not true, that's not true, that's not.

How about the whole lot ain't true? The whole lot ain't true. And the only real victims are going to be the kids. So I'm going to do all I can to protect them and to protect, you know, their lives and their journeys. And I'm not, and I do not believe it's in their interests for me to publicly litigate our divorce. Right. Will I inevitably have to use the court system?

I don't know. Maybe that's avoidable. Maybe it's not. Right. But the reality is, is I know that I'm not free from Blaine for sure. But I'm not controlling the last two years and I wouldn't have encouraged it. And I would have strongly recommended in any capacity. My capacity is a manager. My capacity is a business guy. My capacity is a father and a husband. If I'd have had somebody who would listen, I would say, that is the wrong thing to do.

Yeah. Right. Is that why you left the show? No. It's not why I left the show. I left Doreet, which is why I left the show. And we were in a separation, and then Dorete, in fairness to her, it was a big job, and she had to continue.

And then Doreet decided what narrative she'd do. And at the point that she was doing that, listen, I'm not in that world anymore. I'm, you know, I'm involved in business, thank God again, and I'm doing some great stuff. And I'm out of that world now. But it's part of, it's been the last 10 years of my life. And, you know, I don't think anybody can sit there

and say there's nothing to do with it. I mean, of course, I'm part of the problem, for sure. Yeah. Do I feel it's been fair and justified? No, I don't. There are periods that I know it's not fair. Yeah. But you have to still own the shit, don't you?

I mean, who started it? You do. You did. I didn't realize how much it would affect me emotionally and drain me and put me back into a place that I didn't want to be. Do you understand? So then you say, well, how do you get out of this? How do you get out of this place? Fight your way out?

Do you joke your way out? How do you get out of it? and I didn't manage to. If you could take us back there, if you're willing, to talk about the darkest moment so that we can understand how you felt and what was driving that emotion for you? I think there were a lot of dark moments.

I think this sense of, for me, this inability that I experienced to to be clear. I had no clarity. I had no clarity with my marriage, with that show, with business, I couldn't focus.

That's when I decided to blame it on drink. So, right, I'll give up drink and that will get me clear. And actually, there was enormous clarity when I did that. But I also learnt out learnt that that wasn't the issue. The issue was me and delving into all of the mistakes that I'd always made, seeing myself making the same mistakes, having that sense of deja vu,

thinking about Loretta and the kids and the distance. It was too much distance between me and my older kids. I mean, thank God it's all, but I was too absent. I didn't want to be absent this time around and then I was being accused of being absent and I wasn't absent. But I think I was absent in terms of my ability to address how I was actually feeling. I actually made myself second. I still don't, but I didn't love myself. I didn't respect myself. I was just doing it for this thing. I lost even any thought as to why I was doing it.

And you just said something perfect. So today, as you said, do you love yourself? Not yet. Are you proud of yourself? Nope. Do you respect what you've created? Nope. You don't?

Not yet. I'm aware of what I've created. People like you who show me respect and, you know, and, you know, in a really beautiful word and say, this is amazing what you do. But no, I'm not there yet. You're not there, Peké. No.

You know, it's interesting, when you came in, before you came in, I was talking to different people, getting ready to interview PK, and I'm just bragging about you. Thanks. That is a bit shocking to me that you don't love yourself. Not yet. How can I at the moment in terms of I'm always in a situation. It's like at the moment,

I'm in this divorce situation, you know, my kids, I'm worried about them, I'm worried about them being affected. I don't see this noise stopping. The only way I can stop it is to remove myself from it. I even was asked last night, why am I doing this interview? I said, I don't really know. I'm in London. I guess I've got a story to tell. Well, you asked me at the beginning.

Maybe my lessons. Maybe my journey can help someone else, right? But I haven't finished my journey and I definitely don't sit there in the mirror and go, oh, love you, P.K. You know, that you read all, you have to start loving yourself, put yourself first. I'm not there yet.

I'm not. Will I get there? I hope so. I really hope so. And it's, yeah, people are inspired by some of the things I've done. I think that I have a few ways to get better

that I've not managed to do yet, right? I know that I'm very affected emotionally and I'm very sensitive to, for example, social media commentary. People are so vile. And as it happens on my own feed, people are beautiful. Very rarely. But I've still had to block 1,900 people in the last 12 months,

you know, they write terrible things and then you say, well, why are you even reading it? So the secret is definitely definitely not to read it. But I because of the addictive nature of my personality

is difficult to do. Am I getting better at it? 100%. Don't even watch the show anymore. Don't watch it. But I can't avoid the clips and the trailers and the papers what they say and every everybody around you, the people you love are affected.

Yes. You know, people don't realize my mom, you know, my dad's 88, he has to listen to his daughter-in-law speaking how she's speaking and it affects him. So now he's trying not to see it. Good news is his eyes are going so now he can't see it. So it now is hard. But the fact, I think that's something that a lot of people don't realize. It's incredibly nasty and unkind to troll, but the ripple

effect that it creates in that person's life, their parents, their children. Yeah. It's unfair. And we've protected our kids. But I've always said to Doree, don't do this. The kids are going to read it at some point. Don't do it. But I'm not in control of her decisions.

Right. And she's not in control of my decisions. Are there, from what you, if only if you'd like to say this, are there any storylines from this show that are particularly challenging for you that you want to address? Not really. I mean, I don't think that I need to address storylines on the Real Housewives at Beverly Hills. I think I'm better off to focus on my own healing, my own growth. I mean, look, Mauricio is one of my great friends now, so I took a beautiful friendship out of that out of that show

beautiful friendship transparent on us we share we don't have any secrets such a great guy inspirational in business but the world's got an opinion of him based on the show

so that was a gift from the show I got a great friendship funny enough out of one of the producers Alex Baskin the big one I consider him a true friend of mine great guy So there have been some wins, you know, in terms of friendships.

But everything else, no, it's not great. Would you ever do reality TV again? It depends in what context. So it depends what you call reality TV. If I thought it was a positive, uplifting, beautiful thing to do that was going to help other people and be fun and funny and humorous, And we got into a serious mode in this thing, but I like to joke around. I like to mess around.

Yeah, I'd do that. Yeah. And if you want to hear the full unfiltered stories from today's guest, you can check them out on the We Need to Talk page. Drop a like, leave a comment, and hit subscribe. See you next week.