We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Shakira Khan EXCLUSIVE: The Truth About Love Island & Growing Up Mixed Race

Episode Date: September 23, 2025

Love Island star Shakira Khan breaks her silence in her first ever podcast interview. In this exclusive conversation, Shakira opens up about growing up mixed-race in Burnley, the beauty standards that shattered her confidence, and the behind-the-scenes reality of life inside the Love Island villa. For the first time, she spills the tea on her fellow islanders, lifts the lid on the villa “divide,” and reveals where things really stand with Harry today.Shakira reveals: ◽ How bullying and identity struggles forged her confidence ◽ The surprising truth about Love Island casting and how she got on the show ◽ Why she broke down in tears to her chaperone before entering the villa ◽ Her unfiltered take on Harry and the accusations of gaslighting inside the villa ◽ Why she won’t judge another Love Islander again ◽ The truth about the villa “divide” ◽ Why she now feels proud of her mixed-race identity  ◽ Where her relationship with Harry really stands - and if she sees a future with him Shakira Khan, We Need To Talk. Follow me here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod Follow Shakira: Instagram: https://g2ul0.app.link/XSsa2GZORWb TikTok: https://g2ul0.app.link/icWRTO7ORWb (00:00) Intro (02:16) Why is Shakira Ready to Tell Her Story Now? (02:53) Growing Up In Burnley (09:06) Shakira's Mixed Heritage (13:56) How Did Religion Impact Shakira's Upbringing? (19:04) Shakira's Young Social Circles (23:04) The P Word and Racism (25:54) When Did the Tide Change? (27:13) Romance and Racism (28:53) How Did Shakira Gain Self Worth? (31:50) Did Shakira Ever Have a Healthy Relationship? (34:20) Why Love Island? (40:04) How Did Shakira Get on Love Island? (52:41) Treatwell Ad (53:56) Tinder Ad (54:59) Shakira's Relationships on Love Island (01:00:57) Shakira Talks About Ben (01:04:27) Shakira Talks About Connor (01:07:28) Shakira Talks About Harry (01:13:08) Shakira Talks About Megan (01:14:54) The Divide in the Villa (01:22:49) Harry and Shakira's Mum (01:27:09) Perceptions of Shakira, Toni and Yasmin (01:31:11) What Did Shakira See in Harry? (01:37:30) What's Next for Shakira? (01:38:33) Most Memorable Conversation (01:40:29) Paul's Takeaways Sponsored by: Treatwell: http://Treatwell.co.uk with code PAUL20 - T&Cs apply Tinder: https://tinder.com/en-GB  Get Your Tickets to the Love Better Tour: https://bit.ly/lovebetter-YT Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed sponsored jobs. It gives your job posts the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this shelf will get a $75-sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. Welcome to Sephora. I'm looking for a perfume that's not too perfumi.

I got you. Serum moisturizer or moisturizer syrup. Let's get into layering. My concealer is making me look worse? Sounds like the wrong shade. Let's get you meshed. There's only one store that really gets what you're going for. Get beauty from people who get beauty.

Only at Sephora. Hi, I, uh, let's get you a basket. On Love Island, I feel like Harry was gaslighted other people. We could all see what he was doing. Are you in love with him? Shut on fuck up. You haven't got a hail around your head either. Going through high school,

the beauty standard was blonde, blue eyes, fake tan. And I was right at the bottom of the barrel. And I really, really, really liked that boy. It was my first kiss. But he was, like, racist. He went to EDL March, but then there was a great...

shift. In beauty standards. What are you thinking you'll do? I wanted to go on Love Island. North South Asian female has been on that show and not been booted off. That might have helped insecure little me. If I might see someone who looks remotely like me in the media. So these are the main characters in Shakira's world. Meg, we didn't see eyes at eye.

Ben, it was a difficult concept for him to understand. He wasn't what I was looking for. And Harry, that's my villa fella. That's your villa fella. Was there actually a divide? I was crying to my chaperon. I'm not going to be anyone's type. They're going to fancy the blue-eyed blondies.

It's going to be like high school all over again. You left as one of the most followed Love Islanders. You came in second place. Shakira, you are very impressive. On Love Island, is there any moment the audience didn't see that might surprise them? All right, everyone, before we begin, I have to tell you a secret. it truly one of the biggest honors of my life is making this podcast. I absolutely love it. I love the conversations and I love speaking to all of you when I see you either in the DMs or on the street.

But I do have a small favor to ask and that is please subscribe to the channel and hit the bell icon. What it allows us to do is bring more and more incredible conversations just like this to you. All right. Without further ado, let's get into it. Shakira Khan, we need to talk. We need to talk. Yes, yes. So there's several reasons why I'm excited to talk to you. But one in particular is because I know you have not done a podcast yet.

Why are you ready to tell your story now? I don't know. I think after Love Island, it's a very unique experience. And we've all lived our experience and people now, now you're in the public eye. they see an hour every day for eight weeks and think they know you. And this is like a new concept that I'm trying to get my head around. So this is an opportunity for people to actually get to know me and understand how they've come to see this person that's been on their screen for eight weeks

and everything behind it. I love it. I love it. Let's get to know her. Let's do it. Let's do it. So to get to nowhere, we have to go to Burnley. We have to go to Burnley. Up north.

Up north. Have you ever been? So this is the thing. This is the thing, right? I realize that I have driven around Burnley. Okay. Are you done? A road trip. You've not come to see Burnley. So what's my name? Robish Road trip. What did you miss? Our cinema, which is... Oh, it's a new one, actually. You missed our really run-down ball in Alley, which is great. And you missed out on a Benny and Hot.

A Benny and Hot. We've got a Dreamy and Hot. We've got a drink. called Benedictine. Don't ask me the history on it, but Burnley is the biggest place where it's consumed. So what is this? It's like alcohol. I couldn't even tell you what type of alcohol it is and you like have it with hot water. And like, oh, no, is if you're really ill and you have a Benny and Hart, it's going to sort you straight out. Really? Yeah. So it's alcohol with the hot water. Yeah. And, yeah, like a little glass. I don't know what sort of liquor it is, but they like it in Burnley. That's what you've missed out on. You know, can I say this is what I love, though, about all of these towns and villages all throughout the UK is that so many have retained their culture. Yeah. Yes. And they're

very proud people. People in Burnley are very proud to be from Burnley, like the patriotic towards Burnley. It's the old mill town and like we've still got so many of the mills, even And Pendle is like a little neighbouring borough. And there's like the Pendle witches, like all the witch stories. Like, spooky up there. But good. Yeah. Good.

Spooky but good. Spooky but good. It's north. So, and this is the stereotype that I was, say I hear. You hear. Is that northerners are nice. They are lovely. Okay.

And it's a culture shock down here. Like walking down the street. And I'm like, aye. And I look at you like, you're a little. weirdo but if you were like walking on the canal they're like your dog they're like morning hiya how are you it's odd oh really so right now we're in london yes so when you're walking the streets of london you're saying everyone's just 100 miles an hour in their own world like if you were in burnley and you're walking down the street you'd probably be stopped like four times before you've

reached your destination morning you're right you don't get that here it's so weird but let me ask you In Burnley, though, I don't know what the population is. It's like 99,000, I want to say. So very small. But not the smallest. Okay. I think if we had a cathedral, we would be classed as a city because we've got a university. And I don't know what the population requirements are.

But it's quite a big town. It's big. It's big. It's a big little town. Yes, yeah. It's a big little town. It's a big little town. And everyone knows everyone.

Okay. This is what I was going to ask. So when you are out prior to Love Island, when you're out, did you feel like you pretty much knew and your family knows it? Yeah. Yeah. Like, I, this is really funny because I am my dad's daughter before. Like, are you so-and-so's daughter?

Are you so-and-so's daughter? And now he's my dad. And he hates it. He hates it. Yeah, people will come up to her in the supermarket like, are you Shakira's dad? Are you Shakira's mom? And they're like, because they're,

I thought they were big hitters in Birdley. Oh, wow. But they were. They were. They were. They were. So can we talk about your parents then? Yeah.

All right. So your parents, are they both born in the UK? Yes. Okay. So they are British. Mm-hmm. And are you their oldest? Oldest of six.

Oldest of six. And what's the age difference between you and your siblings? I'm the oldest at 22 and then the youngest is nine. I want to say. Amon is nine. I'm really sorry I'm on if I got that wrong. There's a lot. So in that family, what is it like?

And I know there's a massive age difference, but growing up in such a large family. Yeah. What do you feel like the, almost the pros, the benefits that you get from being in such a large family? The benefits, it's never boring. Like, every day it's like a TV show. Like you're living in a TV show.

They are so entertaining. You can just sit on the sofa and just watch them pan out. And they're all like really big personalities. All my siblings, like even my mum and dad, extravert central. Really? Both of them are extraver. Yeah, everyone.

Everyone is extroversed. I'm beginning to understand the way you showed up on TV, right? Because so it sounds like you were, there was a level of confidence that was just bestowed upon you. through this big family, this extroverted family. So what was little Shakira like? Oh, I just thought I was it. Shakira knew who she was from a very young age.

Like overly confident child, very dramatic, very outspoken. Like I've got a baby video of me and, oh, we've got everything's documented. Our whole lives are documented on our baby videos. I'm mom and dad always had the camera out. and I love the camera I love the camera to the point where I'll watch it back and I'm like oh my gosh

I'm such an ick because I'd be like hey in front of the camera my mum's trying to video like my siblings being cute and I'm like hey mom look at me and I had like a headset on a high school musical headset and I was like it's hard to believe like

seducing the camera and my mum and dad must be thinking what on earth is this child doing but yeah just we're all very dramatic. We're all into theatre, performing arts. Okay. And every day was putting on shows. We play X Factor. Britain's got talent. So, yeah, just very outgoing. Very, okay. Very dramatic. So you were thinking you'd be, what, like entertainer? Yeah, absolutely. So your background, is it Pakistani?

Yes. Okay. On what, both sides? So my mum and dad are both mixed race. So my dad is half Paton. which if you want to break down into what that is, like Afghan Iranian heritage and his family, like, migrated to Pakistan. Like, I've done a whole DNA test. I've got by my heritage results.

And my mum is half-Pakistani, so her family also have, like, Indian origin too. So she's Kashmiri. So it's hard to break down, but they would say like half-Pakistani. Or a fair. So you identify as... Well, I'd say I'm...

half English and then Quota Pataan, quarter Punjabi. So there's different little groups. But yeah, half Pakistani. Okay, fair enough. Yeah. So when I was looking at the research on Burnley, I didn't realize this, is that Pakistani is the second most popular demographic in Burnley. Yeah, I had no idea.

So when you talk about there being this almost segregated communities, I can now, you know, see that. And was it even beyond, or is it even today, beyond the school system? Is it probably, what is it, places of worship, I would imagine, restaurants, etc.? Yep, absolutely. And I think there's a real sense of community. So when people obviously migrated to Berlin these towns, like they would settle within their own little communities

and then that's just grown throughout the years. And it sort of stays that way. Like, I know a lot of Asian people who are, buying houses and they will not go and buy a house in a predominantly white area because they don't feel like they'd fit in or they'd be excluded and vice versa. Like everyone sort of splits off, which I've always found tricky to navigate being mixed race. Yes. Because it's like two ends of the spectrum and every mixed person I think will relate to this.

Like you're too white for the Asian people and you're too Asian. for the white people sometimes. And it was like such a huge identity crisis. I had, especially when as a teenager, like going through high school, because you just don't know, like, where you belong. And that was tough. Like, that was hard. And I was like, no, I wish I wasn't this.

I wish I wasn't this. Yes. Which I'm really proud of now. And it's like, I feel ashamed to say that. But like, yeah, being 1230, and I was like, no, I don't want to be his. I don't want to be this. Or even in primary school, sometimes I don't want to be half English.

Like, you just don't feel like you fully belong on either side. Yes. By the way, I love this conversation. This is such an important conversation because it's not had to the degree that it needs to be had in the UK. Yeah. And that is all of the cultural differences and how we're not as cultures,

even though we're living together in these communities, we're actually not living together. Yeah. So just how I can endorse what you're saying. But the dialogue is not happening. Yes. So I would imagine this is precisely what you're talking about. Yes.

So when I would go to dance classes as a child, white dance classes, ballet cheerleading. And the girls there always treated me differently. Always treated me differently. and I quit cheerleading because of that. Okay. And how did they treat you differently? They wouldn't play with me. They didn't want to sit with me.

Like, in the circle, it would be, you know, you sit down at dance and you're like, my name is Shakira. And I always, I didn't understand why. I didn't get it because I was so popular at primary school. I was a kid. I was a kid about six years old, seven years old. I didn't get it. because every day in prime school I was so popular I had so many friends everyone loves me

I wore my hair and a platt everyone else wants to wear the hair and a plat and then I go to this class and suddenly someone don't want to sit next to me there's a girl and I always remember her face God I wish I knew her name and she we had to hold hands in the circle she wouldn't hold my hand she wouldn't hold my hand and I was like what's her I didn't get it. I didn't understand because I didn't feel like I didn't feel like I was any different. We're all in our little cheerleading outfits. I didn't feel different than until after that. How does religion also impact what we're talking about? Massively. I'm an atheist. And I think that was quite a big thing. And people think it comes hand in hand with you being like Pakistani-Indian. you're automatically Muslim.

And faith has never been like a strong thing in my household. Like my parents never sent us to mosque or church because I think for them, and obviously I can't speak too much for my parents, but they've got it where it's a bigger divide. They've got their English mothers and their Asian fathers. And that in itself is a culture clash. Okay. So then if I can ask, how did you then become atheist?

So I went to, well, I've never grown up with any religion. So I wasn't sure what I meant. Like, you know, when you're little and you're scared, you might say a prayer. You don't know what you're praying to. Like, it's like blind faith in something, like maybe out of fear. And then when I went to high school and did like religious studies and was educated on stuff, I was really interested by the rock of atheism. So this is to do with Catholicism.

And it's the idea that a god. who is omnibenevolent, all-loving, omniscient, all-knowing, and omniportent, all-powerful, all-powerful, all-thou, all-powerful, all-thus, if evil exists. So if evil exists in the world,

which we know is fact, and a God is all-loving and all-powerful, then how can those three things happen at once? Like, if evil exists, and he loves everyone on this planet, and he knows, like, evil exists, and he has the power of it, to do it, then he can't be all loving.

Interesting. You know? And I always thought I was really interested. And then I studied atheism more and I was like, yeah, this is me. I don't believe in any of this. And it's no disrespect to anyone's religions. I just think I've always resonated more with science and things, well, factual. I would find factual like the Big Bang theory, that that makes more sense to me than the story of Adam and Eve and how the world came to be.

Yes. That's just, and I came to that conclusion myself, it wasn't, like, pressured on me from anyone or anything. And how did your parents respond once you identify properly as an atheist and you talk to them about it? I don't think they've batted an eyelid, to be honest. Look at that. This might be offensive to some people.

But for me, I think it's a difficult concept to live your life based on like a book of worship when to me the afterlife's not promised like a lot of religions say you live your life by this this is this and you'll have rewards in the next life whereas for me I just believe it's this life and do what you want and live by your own morals of what's wrong and right good and evil

and you'll be fine like I don't need like a text to dictate that to me I feel like I and myself know like from the way my parents have raised me and the world around me, what is right and wrong? You know? Yes, yes. So I have to ask this. This is a personal question. Yeah.

Actually, these are all personal questions, but this one hits deep because I grew up in a Christian household. Yeah. And I grew up attending church periodically going to like Bible studies and Sunday school, but periodically. Yeah. And one thing that I noticed, at least with the church group that I was with, is that there was a lot of emphasis placed on what will happen in the afterlife,

what will happen beyond their death. And I would always question, was that particular group placing so much emphasis on the afterlife that they were not giving the present as much energy, attention in time? Yes. And so my question to you is, because you don't believe in an afterlife, Do you feel like that gives you even more tenacity and energy for the moment? Absolutely. Okay.

Absolutely. And that's what I live by. Like, I don't want to ever be on my deathbed and have what ifs and regrets. And I just want to live a good life and give my children everything. And I don't want to go to like my grave with a stack full of money, you know. Like what, what is that? What's figures when you're in the ground, you know? Okay. I just want to live a beautiful, wholesome life in this life.

I see it. I see this. You know, that by itself gives me so much perspective on you. So much perspective on you. So then, when you think about your social circle as a little girl, what was your social circle like? Did you have lots of friends, a few friends? I would imagine you had lots of friends. Yeah, in primary school, I had a lot of friends. So I went to a predominantly Asian primary school. I was like the little it girl of the school, like had a really big group, like never would have got bullied or anything. And then when I went to high school, that was like the biggest shock of my life.

And I got thrown into this set. No one wanted to be my partner for anything. No one wanted to speak to me. They'd all like met their little friendship group. They all sort of knew each other from going to church together or christenings. And because they were all from these feeder schools. And it was tough. And I felt so weird.

Like it dulled my sparkle. And my mum and dad like, oh, I remember I came home from school and they were like, how was you first? It was so good. It's so many friends. So popular. It's going great. Because I was that embarrassed.

I was so embarrassed. What do you mean? No one's spoken to me. I didn't have lunch with anyone. And it took a while. And I ended up making friends with two of the girls in my set, really unpopular, completely nerdy. Never, ever in a million years would have befriended them normally because they were like really introverted, shy. And these ended up being my friends and we would go to the library. We wouldn't go to the canteen. We'd go to the library and we'd sit in silence and we'd read. And we'd read. And I always loved reading.

But that's when I really became a bookworm. But like this big bubbly, bright, bold personality... It was dulled. Was dulled. Yeah. And I became really shy and really insecure. And I didn't want to say anything. And, you know, even comments people would make her, like, laugh at us.

I wouldn't defend myself. What? I would bark at anything for years. My siblings, people at a school, I wouldn't say boo to a goose. Can we talk about beauty standards? Because I would imagine that there's an intersection point here between culture.

What did you feel like the beauty standard was and where did you feel like you fell on that standard? The beauty standard was blonde, blue eyes. fake tan um and I was right at the bottom of the barrel like every boy

I'd never I'd never experienced this because anyone I had a crush on in primary school like I was the most fancied girl or whatever kids silly and then it was like going from that to being like ew like even as a joke like oh shut up

like you've got with Shakira like as an insult you know like going from there to there was mind-boggling for my confidence and I hated myself like hated hated myself did you hate yourself

you hated how you looked I hated how I looked I hated my heritage like I had such an identity crisis and my woman dad would be like what are you on about like I would literally be so embarrassed like

even of like cultural stuff which I could not give less of an F about now but yeah like when my dad would cook curry at home I'd be like no like this my bag smells of curry like crying my eyes I like can't go to school

like oh my goodness I would be mortified it'd be the worst thing in the world like I would be mortified and I was ashamed because if if you did would you get comments yeah you would the P word

Okay, I think I know what the P word is, yes. I have a very, very long history of the P word. Really? I mean, so obviously we're not going to say the P word, but you were, so people were just saying that to your face? Yeah. Yep. Okay. Even like to describe a corner shop, the P shop, very casual, very casually used.

And it would bug me. because no one would like use that in primary school. And then all of a sudden this derogatory term to describe like me, I was like, what? What? And I didn't dare say anything. I didn't dare, like, say anything to anyone because my confidence was just gone. And I started to believe it.

I started to internalize it that I was lesser than. You believed it. I started to believe it. Yeah. Look at that. Look at that. started to believe it. Were there any other incidents that come to mind that, you know, for those who have not gone through what you've gone through, so you could really paint the picture.

Someone put a cigarette out on my brother's head. Yeah. Yes. So 32% of UK-born people with one or more parents who migrated into the country felt unsafe at some point within the last 12 months. that's from the Migration Observatory. And then another stat, 33% of UK-born people with one or more parents who migrated into the country have been insulted

or verbally abused at some point within the last 12 months. And that's the Migration Observatory. Look at that. Doesn't surprise me. Yeah. That doesn't shock me.

That's today. Yeah. That's today. What, you know, you've become very popular with many people around the UK, but in particular, I think, a lot of young women, young girls. So for anyone who's going through this themselves,

what advice would you give to them? Be yourself. Surround yourself with good people and good things will happen. If someone makes you feel lesser than that you're friends with, not a friend. If you feel like you have to play up to people to impress them, not a friend. be you, always authentically you'd never be embarrassed about anything and good things will come.

Okay. Good things will come. All right. Even if it's not in the next week, good things will come eventually. When did the tide begin to change for you? So there was a great shift. Uh-uh. The great shift.

The great shift. In beauty standards. Okay. Tell me how so. The Kardashians Brunette, tan skin Curve, this was all in Mixed race girls were sort of being glorified

like Amelia Monet, Georgia Smith like this is what was happening when I'd sort of got older in high school and all of a sudden I hit puberty and then all the boys that were vile to me were suddenly interested

now the great shift the great shift I grew a pair of boobs and a butt and they were like hang on a minute but it was never in public it was sneaky

interesting so they would message me on Snapchat but they would ignore me in the hallway forbidden fruit look at that forbidden fruit and again you know when I said like oh like you'd probably fancy Shakira

da da da da da da da da pee shagger was an insult. Like if you fancied, if someone fancied me, they'd get called a pea shagger. So it was like always a dirty little secret. So it was only the message that you would get. Yeah, like, oh, fit you, fancy you, do, do, do.

And then a talk in the stage, as Jen Z's call it, like, you'd be talking and messaging and you'd like start catching feelings this person, but then you'd see him and put, and they'd ignore you. and it was awful awful it was horrible and I really really really liked boy was my first kiss he got a lot of stick for it you know for fancy me it took him like a while for him to like bring me out with his friends and we had our first kiss and then this went on for years back and forth because he was like racist there was an EDL march and he went to the EDL march and like I stopped speaking to him

I was fuming, but I really liked this boy, so it was constantly like, I'm working there, like, proving my work. This boy who's like basically racist. And I'll never forget it. And he just said, I wish you were Spanish. He said, I wish you were Spanish because he was... That would be acceptable.

It would be acceptable. And he could never introduce me to his parents. Like, I'd never meet his family or anything. And that was it. I was like... broke my heart. And so the self-love, or should I say the self-worth, the self-esteem is clearly not there because you're accepting this guy who you've said is basically racist.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So how did you then fully become, you know, Shakira, self-worth, high self-esteem? Did that ever enter the picture in high school? Yes. It did. Okay. It did. And this is an important thing to remember.

The Brown High School. Yeah? Social media. Ah. The Great Equalizer. And I was hot shit over there. I was hot shit over there. They loved me over there.

Cross the street. You were hot. I was Beyonce. Everyone at the school knew who I were. But not my school. my gosh, okay. This weird opposite ends of the spectrum. Yes.

So weird. But I always had that. And that was nice. That was nice. That was the good confidence booster. But, you know, that's so important, especially in adolescence when we're trying to figure out where do we fit? And does society accept us to know that there is somewhere where you are. loved and adored.

But to an extent, like I said before, you're two white or you're two Asian for both sides. So the girls at that school would call me a slag or a slough or rundi,

disgusting vile word. Like gaudy, white slag like because I was mixed race. I wasn't a slag. What? at all, like, furthest thing from it, but automatically, because I was mixed race, that's what I was.

So, like, from the boys, and this is why my mum didn't want me to go to that school, because she had that. She lived through that. She lived through that, because my mum's mixed, my dad's mixed. They've lived them experiences. And she lived through that at high school with the Asian girls, giving her grief about no. nothing she'd ever done. It was jealousy. It was jealousy because she'd always get attention from

boys. And I'm not saying that's correct. But the beauty standard in Asian fairer skinned. Yeah. More Eurocentric features. Even if you look at Bollywood actors, they've got like green blue eyes and like they've had nose jobs and stuff. So obviously my mum was desirable and that was the same with me. From the Asian boys at the Asian school, I was hot property. I see it. But never someone you'd be what I feel. Okay.

I see it. I see it. This is so important to understand you. These experiences are so important. These are your lived experiences. Did you ever have what you consider to be a healthy, committed relationship? Yes, I did. My last relationship.

And he was someone who went to my school. and he was really, really popular, really popular. And our paths never crossed. Except one time I was stuck up for me. And I always remember that. He did. He stuck up for me. And then when we got older, yeah, we just bumped into each other.

I think we were going out, like on an hour and bumped into him, and then I was like, oh, wait. He's not a... knobbed, like, every, all of his friends were at school, like, he's a nice guy. And we dated for ages, like, just dating, like, going out and on dates, like, nothing sexual, for, like, I was going to, like, 20 dates, and then he asked you to be his girlfriend, and I was like, what? Because, like, he had a bit of a reputation, like, he was a bit of a player.

And I was like, is this, this right? Like, is this guy? and we had a great relationship and then we wanted to move our relationship forward and we were like saving up for a mortgage like to move in together and then he dropped I'll never forget

it's such a funny story we were at his mum's for Sunday dinner and we're all having Sunday dinner like me his stepdad his mum and his brother and he drops Sunday at Sunday he goes oh by the way my brother's getting a mortgage of us.

What? I see. What? He wanted all three of us to live together. To live together and get a mortgage together. They were inseparable. There's a year apart between them.

They come as a package, which even like on date nights and stuff, we'd come along. And it started to bug me, but that was just the boiling point. And I was like, I'm never going to make you pick between you and, like, me and your brother. Like, you guys want to go

and live together and do all your businesses together. That's fine. I'll step out the equation. Wow, so you broke up with him? I broke up with him. Oh my gosh. I've never been broken up with. Never been broken up with.

That's interesting. That's interesting. So now career-wise, though, because of your confidence back, bravado, what are you thinking you'll do? I want to go on Love Island. I'm telling you. No. And you're just telling you?

That was the goal. I'm telling you, this is hot. This was hot. Like, Love Island was hot. I had the water bottle. It was popping off. Yeah, this is 2018, right? 2018.

Yeah, this is, uh, was this Caroline Flacks last year? Molly Macy's Tommy Fury. I remember about Tommy Fury in my GCS English paper. Did you? Like, this was, this was the show, yeah? And my teachers are like, you're going to be prime minister. You need to be a lawyer. Like, that was such a sneaky.

And so, like, you'd be a. good lawyer, Shakira. It's like a polite way saying, you're a bitch. I'm saying you've got a smart mouth. You'd be a good liar. Yeah, I got those allegations. And no, I just wanted to do... You, okay, okay, all right. Help me understand. So I know how big it was. A matter of fact, that was the year I came to the UK. So I remember Love Island was everywhere. I watched Love Island that first year and I was like, wow, this is... It was big. Everyone's talking about Love Island.

It was huge. So I understand the popularity of the show. And then also what then the catapult and what it does to not all of the members of the contributors. The big stars. But help me understand why you, who could be the prime minister, decided that that was your number one goal. I loved the way it opened up so many opportunities for them. Molly May was doing YouTube. I loved that.

Like YouTube was huge. I'd grown up on Zuella and this girl is here showing bathballs and stuff. She's getting all these millions of views and there's challenges going on on YouTube and social media is so fun and it's so new at this point. And I'm like, what? This is a career? You can do this as a career? I want to do that.

I want to be a YouTuber. We'd done like child modelling and acting and stuff. I was five foot one. Like that was never going to run. I was like, okay, right. Not going to be a model. But I could be an influencer. Yes.

Let's do this. This is good. I just didn't want to do. I just wasn't inclined to do the academics anymore. Yeah. I didn't want to do the writing. I wanted to be posting vlogs and videos and doing the fun stuff that everyone was doing. So for all of the millennial, the older millennials and the Gen Xers, even the baby boomers who are watching this, they will have a hard time, I think, reconciling this in their mind.

Yeah. And if you can help them. My mom did. Yeah. Yeah. Your mom is this. Yeah. Because YouTuber as a career, I remember when my son was going from year 60, year seven, that was the number one career goal.

was YouTuber who's looking at what everyone wants to be people like YouTube or YouTube so what was it though was it the money that was coming from YouTubers

was it the social status what was it that was driving everything at all okay them as an NCL that was what you wanted to be like you see them they had these big

flashy mansions and stuff like Team 10 in LA I remember Jake Paul and Morgan Paul when they they were first coming up and it was like, whoa,

obviously looking back now it's all stunning but you were like, whoa, look at these people they're so rich, they have such good lives, da-da-da-da-da.

It was like a fast track to like, this amazing life, like, yeah, that's what I wanted to do, which is so stupid. I'm so,

so stupid. I, and I got voted most likely to go Love Island. Are you serious? Yeah. There was a vote in school

around, like, you know, and you do levers? Yes. It's not stupid at all is. So I was. looking at, so obviously you mentioned Molly May, right? When Molly May left, she had a 500,000 pound brand deal with pretty little thing. She went on to become the creative director. And PLT was hot. Oh, yeah, it was. It was hot. It was hot. She's gone on to do documentaries, et cetera, did a brand deal with L'Oreal, right? I remember watching it all. I was like, whoa, she's so cool. Look at this. I can see when she left, the rumor is that she did a one million pound. fashion deal.

Oh, Polly. Yeah, look at that. So it's one of those where it is a fast track. You could argue it is one of the fastest tracks to that level of status, that level of income. Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. And there was a lot of fit boys on there.

There's a lot of fit boys on there. So that's the bonus. Yeah. There was a lot of fit boys. You know, like, all these celebrity crushes stopped being celebrity crush and it started being like, oh, so-and-so from Love Island is like my celeb crush.

Yes. These were the guys. Like, this is the best the UK had to offer on this show. Yeah. That's what everyone would be obsessed with. That is. That is. You're absolutely right.

You know, when, so in matchmaking, a lot of matchmakers, what they'll do is they'll take a client in and say, who's your celebrity crush. And I have lots of friends who are matchmakers in the UK and in the US. And you're right, it was always a list actors or actresses. Yeah. And then it shifted to Love Islanders.

Yes. So then I have to ask, how in the world then do you get to Love Island? My friend, who's an influencer, went to an ITV event. And it was May last year, which is, by the way, casting's done by that point. Yes. And she goes, oh, Max Spencer, the big bar. Big boss at Love Island. He was doing like a talk on an ITV panel.

And she just walks up to her afternoon and goes, he's so casting for Love Island. She has no idea who this guy is. He's the big dog. Are you still casting for Love Island? I've got someone who'd be perfect for her. Like, she's nothing like you've ever had before. Da-da-da-da-da.

And he's like, okay, show me her. And he's like, brilliant. Send me your details the day after. They rung me up. Wow. So this is fascinating. This is May. You're talking about this is May last year.

May of 2024. Mm-hmm. When casting is pretty much done. Pretty much done. Yes. They ring me up. It's the 1st of May. Hi-you.

Do you want to come and audition for Love Island tomorrow? In London, you have to take the day off work. Come down. Go down, audition. Casting producers like, who on earth is this girl? And what is the audition? You just go and sit and you talk. And ask your questions about your dating life and funny stories

and what you like. and you go in, you get all dold over, and you sit there and you talk. And I was just being myself. And I just said to him, listen, if I'm ever going to do it, I'm only going to do it early on, because I'm never going to leave my job. I've got a good job. I'm not going to leave my job to go in, you know, something like Casaramo. That's a big risk.

It's a big risk, you know, to go in later on. I said, if I'm ever going to do it, I'm going to go in in the first week, and that's that. And they're like, okay. So everything's wrapped. They've got their OG cast. sorted by them and they rung me up in January this year and said they loved you last year and I'm thinking he's like lying I'm not doing all that palaver again they loved you last year's

top of our list please will you will you audition and this time I have to do the full thing so I had to do a video a form Zoom call at the full process then after I'd pass all that Then you go and meet the casting producer. And this time I met, I went into a second room. The three exec producers were there. And I had to do another audition. Which is sitting, talking, responding to them? Yeah.

Just chatting. And then rest was history. So how quickly thereafter did you get a message back saying your aunt? I didn't. I went out on a whim. So I did my press day. Did my press day. This is like the final steps

where you're going to do all your intros like, hi, I'm Shakira. All that pala of her. And you still don't know at this point. They could have like 100 people doing this. I don't know. It's quite select. Whoever does the press day,

whatever amount is quite select. You still don't know if you're going on. And famous words, you'll have heard it a lot. You're not on the show until you're on the show. You're not in the villa till you're in the villa. That's the famous phrase. Shakira, I didn't know this. So you're telling me...

The Love Islanders have not said this phrase to you. Oh, no, no, no. That part I did know. But the press day, you're telling me the day that you take the shots. Yeah. So nothing's confirmed. I didn't know that. No.

So you do all of those shots that you see. I'm sure there's lots of people from the UK who have done that press day. And it'll just disappear into oblivion, all that content. My God. Yeah. Okay. So you went to your press day? I did the press day and then the execs pulled me for a meeting then and there at the press day and said, you're flying out.

A hundred percent confirmed you're flying out. Don't mean I'm on the show. But they're flying me out. Tell you work. I was like, oh, shit. This little deli-lilu fantasy I've had for years is maybe a reality. So I spoke to my boss and I said, look, this opportunity, this doesn't happen for people like me. Small girls from a small town in Burnley.

Pakistani girls. This doesn't happen. I'm going to do it. Will I still have a job? It's a risk, you know? And he said, go. He said, I'll fire you if you don't do it. It doesn't matter if you're on there for a day, a week.

If you do the whole thing, in two years, five years, you'll always have a job. That's all I needed to hear. What have I got to lose? What did I have to lose? Yes. And this has been a dream. This has been a silly little dream. Yeah, since 15, which is incredible.

Even if I'd said it as a flyaway comment, you know, but I always wanted to do it. Yeah. But now, with that news, how did your parents react? My dad was a super fan of the show. He's watched every series. different when it's your daughter and I think they had their reservation

my mum's never liked it I think she definitely had a perception of what the show was about like people having sex on TV people acting promiscuous and smoking and you know a lot of foul language

blah blah blah bimbos like she thought people who went on there were airheads and there had nothing going for them da da da da da da da that was her perception of the show she never watched it She just is what she'd seen from the press or like people's opinions about it, more her age group.

Whereas like someone young, it was like, whoa, this is a really cool, positive thing. Like, this is so good. She never understood that. And then obviously the year before, my mum would watch that series because I might have been going on that year. So she'd watched the series. So they had a year to come around to the idea. We had a year to have those conversations because of the last year. and talk about what's acceptable, what's not acceptable.

And I was trying to explain to it. I was like, you've raised me. You've raised me. I'm a good kid. I'm a good person. I've got my own morals and values. I would never do anything to disrespect you or embarrass you. Like, I'm never going to go and have sex from national television.

I was like, you've got to trust me. Like, you've raised a good person. You've just got to trust that. I'm going to do what I'm going to do. You just got to trust that. and you know there's certain things like that were big no-noes for my dad and yeah I respected that like in games

like it's funny for him to watch strangers if it was his daughter his first born child his little princess that's very difficult when put the island he fancy most in a sex position was never going to run I was never going to do that

because that would be mortifying for him like that's embarrassing like and I understand I think it's like lighthearted and funny and no one my age would think any badly for someone doing that but he just wouldn't want me to do that and I respected that so I told all the boys don't you dare do don't even dare do anything but what's so great is and I say great because you know I'm a parent right what it sounds like you had is you had your parents in mind and your objective was not to disrespect

well that was one not to disrespect them no matter what you'd walk from the show before you would disrespect them. Secondly is you called it for what it is, which I appreciate because I've talked to, I mean, I have many, many, many friends who have done Love Island. And publicly, it is few that will say, that will acknowledge it's a fast track

to influence her world. Yeah. Right. Let's state the obvious. Please. Like you've got, you cannot tell me, if you've watched the show and or you've seen the show.

Everyone in the UK knows what Love Island is. Even if you've not watched it, you know what it is. It's a household name, right? I'm pretty sure a 70-year-old person would have heard of Love Island. For someone to consider going on the show and go through that process, you go through site, da-da-da-da-da. They ask you to evaluate the pros and cons are going on the show. And at some point in that, you've got to factor in that you're going to have

some form of media attention or you're going to become a public figure against your will. Even if you don't want to be famous or an influencer, yeah, you can go back to your normal job. People are going to know who you are and you're going to have some form of media attention. Like, I know there's people who've been paramedics before

and gone on and they go back to being a paramedic. It doesn't mean they're not in the sun or they're not in tabloids or if they walk down the street someone's going to know who they are. That's something you've got to take into consideration. is something I took into consideration. I don't think it was ever about like notoriety or being famous. But I think a big factor for me is that I always will want to be financially stable.

I want to have a nuclear family. I never want my kids to want for anything. That's a big factor. Another big factor was representation. I would have had a lot easier childhood and sense of identity if I might have seen myself in more places in the media and on my Instagram feed and on TV shows that might help insecure little me

who didn't have a sense of self, have a role model. It's a big thing. That's a big, no one, no Pakistani female has been on that show or South Asian female and not being booted off Shannon. There's a litre called Shannon Singh she got booted off on the first day

we barely got to see her. Shame. I was so buzzing that year. I was buzzing. I was buzzing. I think she was Indian. I'll double check that but she's South Asian.

I was buzzing to see someone who looks remotely like me. That was a big factor. Yeah, so you've got to weigh these things up. You're very naive. to sit and you're just a liar. You're just a lie if you're going to sit there and say to me, you didn't know you'd have some form of opportunity after Love Island.

Facts, facts. What about, where does love fall in that? That, and this is me being completely honest, would have just been a bonus. Would have just been a bonus. I had no expectation, even if there was going to be no career after this. I've got my career at home. It's waiting for me.

That's not going to go. My boss has said your job's here, yeah? It would just be a bonus to go in there and find love. I had no expectations. I didn't, nothing's promised. I didn't even know. Flying out, I didn't even know if I was going to go on the show. Right.

Right. I could have gone flown out, stayed in holding, and they fly me back home. That happens. I could have gone on a week, two weeks, three weeks. Nothing that happens on the show. promises your future outside of this. And they say that to you, like, you know, it doesn't matter. If you go on there, they can't promise you're going to have an influence in Korea.

They can't promise you're going to have this amount of followers. No one can promise stuff like that. That's just a bonus. Anything from that show is a bonus. Yes. You know, thank you for being completely transparent on that question because I want more people who are going on these reality TV formats. mats to be transparent about it.

Yeah. Yeah, right from the get-go, just be transparent about it. Because you know what, the audience is much smarter than we give them credit for being. Of course. And the other part of it is that if you are transparent, it allows you to live out your authenticity, you know, both on and off the project. Yeah. Hey, Paul.

It's time to tell our listeners about a new show sponsor, Treat Well. Let's talk Nails then. I just had my manicure. and pedicure too. And for those of you who might be a bit shocked to hear this, where have you been? I get it done because think about it. My hands are always being filmed, usually more than my face. So I've got to make sure they're always looking camera ready. But honestly, this is my tri-weekly reset and I always book through Treatwell. You probably know it. It's Europe's number one beauty booking app,

where you can find five-star salons near you and you could book 24-7 even after midnight just from your phone, and you could see real reviews from people who've actually been. They've got so many treatments available, too. Nails, facials, massages. Last week, I tried a brow lamination. Now, I'm not sure I'd do that again, but you know what? The brows did look great. If you want to treat yourself to something new, or try that treatment, you keep seeing on TikTok, now's the time. Use code Paul 20 for 20% off your first booking when you go to a new salon. That's treat. treatwell.com or through the treat well app. Now, this code is just for our listeners, and it's for you to try a new salon.

Have you ever been on a date where you're trying so hard to just be yourself that suddenly it feels impossible? You start overthinking everything, how to sit normally, what to do with your hands, then you end up doing something weird like this. Now, let's flip that. I want you to think about how you are when you're with your best friend. It's usually when we're our truest selves. And when you're in that zone, it's actually a great time to meet someone new.

In that setting, you're naturally thriving. It's why our sponsor, Tinder, created their new double date feature, where you and your bestie can connect with other single pairs. Instead of that high-pressure one-on-one environment, now you're at a group hang. Conversation flows better. And if you stumble, your bestie is literally right there to catch you. If solo dating makes you act like a glitchy version of yourself, invite a friend along. Download Tinder today and try double date because everything is better with your bestie.

We all have that dream trip. We've been wishing we could go on. But too often life or usually price gets in the way. That's why price line is here to help you turn your dream trip into reality. With up to 60% off hotels and up to 50% off flights, you can book everything you need for your next adventure. Don't just dream about that next trip. Book it with Priceline. Download the Priceline app or visit Priceline.com and book your next trip today.

Secura, I have a surprise for you. All right, here it is. Here it is. Oh, my goodness. This is the level of detail that we're going to go into. So now, Shakira, here's what we're going to do. All right. You can see this is a very lovely diagram that we've put together.

Yes, you did. Here's what I would love for you to do. Okay. I would love for you to go around the board and speak to your relationship with each of these people. Because as I see it, these are the main characters in Shakira's world on Love Island. Would you agree? Yes. So we got all the main characters?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So who would you, you begin anywhere you want to begin. What was your relationship with that person? So, so Yasmin, bombshell, turned Beste.

Okay. She joined Man and Tony's little group and we became the trio, also known as the Big Three now. The Big Three. The Big Three. Not self-proclaimed. Helena, you could sort of say, was my competition.

We had the same. type in men which I always we find really funny so yeah Helena we always go for the same guys Ben

lovers to enemies and now we're like frenemies we're fine now it's all in the past but yeah being Ben started dating

and then that turns out that was no good whatsoever Connor friends to lovers back to friends okay um yeah he's like

my guy best friend. Love comedy pieces. We went there, didn't work out. Cash is Tony's mans. That's my best friend's boy. So he's like brother by default. He's brother by default. Okay. No, I love Cash. He's a great guy.

Meg, you could say she was my villa enemy at times. At times. Yeah, we didn't see eye to eye sometimes. I think we're quite similar in some ways. Like, both very outspoken, loud, outgoing. Yeah, that's a strong word to use. But for terms of the board. Yes, yes.

This helps with the visual. And Harry, that's my fella. That's my villa fella. That's your villa fella. No, he's my fella. He's your fella. Well, yeah, he's my fella. He's your fella.

Okay, he's your phone. All right, I love it. I love it. I'm curious. I'm just noticing this too. Before we get rid of this board here is Helena. Mm-hmm. What colorized does she have? Blue. Look at that. Yeah. Isn't that fascinating? Yeah. Given your story of high school. Yeah. That Helena becomes the competition. I mean, I don't know. Is that just me that?

finds that. And Meg also. Yeah, I mean, what color eyes? It doesn't make it. Blue? Blue. Blondies. Blondies, blue eyes, tan.

Yeah. Become the... Which I always thought was still the beauty standard in my head. Still. That's ingrained from me. And it's, I think, very much the Love Island beauty standard. You see it season in, season out. Like, before going into the villa, I...

papped myself, like all this confidence. I took me straight back to being 13, 14 again, and I was crying to my chaperone the day before. Were you? No one's going to step forward for me. No one's going to fancy me. I'm not going to be anyone's type. I papped myself.

I was like, they're going to fancy the blue-eyed blondies. It's going to be like high school all over again. You see it on Love Island, women of colour, don't they're not really the most desired people on there you see it every year the token black girl or they've just thrown in someone to like tick her ethnicity box that's what people have these conversations about on social media

so you going in I was scared did you feel like you were a token yeah but I played into that though. Of course I played into that because I want to so on one hand you can say like you're the token South Asian representation but I wanted to be that South Asian representation

I wanted to have someone like me in that space so yeah like you can say it's a token but it's a token that should be a token yeah it should be a tick box for that yes of course with Love Island going in, how long do you believe that you'll be there? I had no idea.

Okay. No idea. And that's honest. You have no idea. For one, going in there, you think, I'm at a disadvantage, me being me. I didn't know how that was going to land with viewers. I saw Shannon, the only South Asian female. She went on the first day.

So there's nothing like to base it off. I didn't know if people were going to fancy me. I didn't know if I was going to gel with people because I really, I sound so bad. The sort of guys that go on the show previously, personality-wise, would never have gone for. Like my type, I go through witty, intelligent, charming. Okay.

Not even the best looking of guys either. witty, intelligent, charming. Yes, personality. So on that note, can we start with Ben? Yeah. Which a lot of people are going to say, I just shaded him for that. But I honestly don't know Bay. Yeah.

But what I do know is a lot of the commentary that I saw suggests that he was not those things. Mm-hmm. What was your observation of him? That. And I said that to him. That he was not those things. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I don't think he's a bad guy at all. He's not a bad guy. I just think he wasn't what I was looking for. And we clashed on that because I think it was a difficult, this is my opinion. I think it was a difficult concept for him to understand that he wasn't what I was looking for. I don't think he'd ever like, I'm not saying I rejected him, but I don't think he'd ever felt projection because he's a good looking guy.

And he's probably gone through, like, his whole life having, having his way with girls. But that wasn't what I was looking for. Everyone's good looking in the villa. Right. Right. What's your impression of what the audience was seeing with regard to Ben? Because there were quite a large number of offcom complaints. There was allegations of misogyny.

There was allegations. Many allegations. Yeah. What did you see of him in the villa? I think he's quite hot-headed at times I didn't think before he spoke and cared a lot about how he was perceived

so when we would have conflict with each other it was like you're making me look or it looks like this to other people not about how he was feeling or how I would feel and those times that we'd have conflict and it was in front of everyone

and I said we'll speak later and he's like oh we're told now because it'd like embarrassed him hurt his ego a bit a lot of ego there with them a lot of ego

a lot of male bravado and he's the top dog and he probably has been like all his life he's a good looking guy you know and yeah so when you critique him

or like someone calls him out for someone then it's snappy temper and he can buy he'll buy it easily and maybe something not very nice will come on. I see. I see. And he probably didn't even intend things to be misogynistic, but he doesn't think. He just says.

He just reacts. But yeah, there's some things we weren't happy about. And when he gets called out on it. it, then it's fight or flight with Ben and it's always fight, he's always on

the defense. But yeah. Fair enough. With Connor. What I found interesting about your relationship with Connor is that it appeared as if

he was into you. Yeah. You know? I would say so, yeah. Yeah. How, just that... Which is weird to like talk about it.

Wait, wait, what was it way to talk about? Because I'm back to friends now and he's with mecca. But still, still, like. Yeah. Yeah, but it looked that way. He said, I'm 200% for you, like. So that was his words.

Yeah, I think he liked me, yeah. And I think at the time, I didn't realize the extent of him. So whereas when me and Connor coupled up, I was like, oh, this is a friendship going into a relationship where he'd probably sort of had feelings brewing. And then we were into it. And then he was full steam ahead where I was like, whoa, this is a transition. But it wasn't a transition for him.

You know? Yes, it was the full deal. I think. Was that, was it hard to let him know that your heart wasn't in it? Yes. Incredibly. And I think the thing that I was frightened about, the most was losing him altogether.

And yeah, I could have stuck it out. Like, I could have stuck it out, but that's not the sort of person I am because I could see, like, it would hurt him, you know? And I give it a try, I give it a go. But when I came to my epiphany, like conclusion, like, I had to just be honest with him and tell him, even if that would hurt him in the moment,

I knew it was the kind of thing to do. in the long front God what a way it worked out it's 20 minutes later in came Megan 14 o'clock Goodbye Shakira you couldn't you couldn't write it couldn't have worked out

better You're happy where things have landed Absolutely Everything happens for a reason Okay Who would have thought she was going to come back And this is the girl he was caught upon And I knew that

because we had a friendship with each other and I'd been his confidant. And he said, they're not Megan like, they're not Megan like when I was his friend. So I knew how much he really, really liked Megan. Like when he met Megan, that was,

she'd followed her for years on social media before coming into the villa. There's an invisible string theory there with them too. Yes. They're both Irish and, I don't want to say I was like a placeholder for, him but me and me and me and me and Megan are quite similar

so we probably have a lot of characteristics that are the same that he would find attractive but I think ultimately for him it was always going to be Megan do you believe if Harry was not in the villa you would have stayed with Connor yeah yeah okay yeah isn't that interesting

it is interesting yeah so then that leads us to Harry, Harry, Harry. So where I like to begin is what was your initial impression of Harry? I thought it looks like a bit of tosser. Because he came in with this A-pack and I was like, oh, he's one of them, like, gym goers, like really narcissistic in love with himself, like, high-rocks man. And that's like my biggest ick. Like, people are like, go and do high-rock. into fitness and it's their whole personality. Like, I looked at Harry and I made an assumption. I read the book by its cover.

I thought, yeah, he seemed like typical. That guy. Yeah, he's that guy. And did you think he would have any interest in you? No. And I said that to him. I said that. That took me back.

Like, it was our first conversation. And he said, like, obviously we didn't know each other, but he said aesthetically, you're exactly what I'd go for. And I was like, I did not think I'd be your type at all. That was like, what? I didn't have that on my bingo card. I didn't. And so did you believe it when he said that?

I didn't because I thought maybe he's just telling me what I want to hear. Like maybe he's saying the same thing to all the other girls until he told me what his ex looked like. And she's half Pakistani. And you met Emma. We know Emma. I ended up meeting Emma in the villa. But, yeah, and I was like, oh, maybe I am his type.

He's told me his ex is half Pakistani and she looks similar to me. So I was like, oh, okay. Okay. So Emma, the E. Emma with the E. Emma with the E. Can we talk about the E? Yeah.

How serious do you think that? is because he um is he he not i guess he lied about what the e yeah what it meant yeah how much of that do you believe suggests any part of his character um i think he what did he say what did you tell everyone he got it for his ex and then when they broke up he changed the meaning for his grandma so he was transparent with us in the very about that. Because then when Emma came in, we all knew what he meant when he was saying,

it's my ex, this one. So he told us, but I think in his VT or whatever, he was like, oh, I've got a tattoo. It's my grandma's initial. But yeah, he was quite transparent with what that was. Yeah. With what it was.

Yeah. All right. Which maybe didn't get shown. Oh, okay. That's fair. That's fair. Yeah. Because I think to many,

it could have played as. It was dubious. Yeah, no. He told everyone. Okay. Yeah. All right. So now, when you are thinking about these interactions, right, have you watched the entire series back?

No. You haven't? No. Nobody got time for that. Oh, my gosh. I've let me. No. I'm up to, I've tried to, but we've been out a month now and I'm up to Casa.

Okay. I'm up to CASA. I've been dipping in and out. I've seen clips of everything. My followers made sure I saw certain clips. What is your impression now, having seen this in real time, but then you see the clips. So you see what the audience sees. And you'll probably see things in the clips that you didn't see in Villa.

It's the most baffling watch. A four-hour conversation, two-hour conversation, clipped into two minutes, it doesn't make sense. It's confusing as a viewer. I would be confused. Nothing makes sense and there's so much like how

I remember it and how I recall the events happening isn't how it happened because there's so much missed out in between that it doesn't make sense. I don't get how everyone's not confused watching it. Wow. Do you, are there any

surprises, anything that you're shocked by that you've learned by looking at the series? I just think it's, and I'll never, ever, ever watch Love Island again and have an opinion about someone. I'll never watch Love Island again in the same way and make an assumption about someone. Because the way things come, not edited, and I'm not going to say edited,

because what happened in there happened, but what gets shown is selective and gives you one segment of who a person is and there's a whole whole other circle here you've just seen a segment and that doesn't make up who they are as a person or their whole character. Okay.

Is there anyone in particular that comes to mind that you think if we would have seen the fullness of their character, it would have been good. It would have been better to see the... Megan, 40 o'clock. Megan, really? And she got a redemption arc.

But watching it back, I can see. Because I was shocked. We were shocked when Megan got dumped. We were shocked and the whole villa was shook to their core. But seeing how it panned out and how it played out, I get it. She gets it.

But that's not the Megan. Megan, I know. You wouldn't even know we were friends. You know, it fit the narrative of the divide that she was in that group and there was no crossover. But we always said Megan was the glue. Megan was the glue between the two groups. And yeah, I had a really good friendship with Megan. And then people were shocked that when she came back in, that she was friends with us. But we were always. always friends, just didn't get shown. Didn't get shown. So you just talked about the divide. So we'd talk about that because this was, I think, of high interest to many people. To the point where I could say that was one of the main stories. Yeah, of course. If you will.

Let's be honest. Right. So first off, was there actually a divide? Yes. Yes. And I'm not going to sit here. And as much as people want to shit on that, that was my. lived experience and my friends will say the same.

That was our lived experience and no one. And people couldn't sit there and say there was no divide. There was a divide. And that's okay. And it is because that's life. That's life. What do you believe created the divide? Anyone who was a threat to the other group was orchestrated.

And we banned it together. Okay. Okay. So you said we banned it together. So you felt like you were, You're the outcast. The outcast. Literally.

That's what we call us. Literally the outcast. The outcast. Okay. And who's in the outcasts? Well, me, Tony and Yaz call ourselves the outcasts. But you could collectively add bilicus to that. Melicia.

Andrade. Emma. You know? Yes. And there's a pattern here too, which I don't think anyone wants to talk about. Yeah. I mean, let's talk about it. What's the pattern?

Women of colour. You know, I see you don't shy away from any topic. You don't. And I appreciate this because I've watched Love Island for quite some time. And you'll go to the comments, especially on Twitter. And yes, we're still calling it Twitter, right? You go to Twitter and you'll see what everyone is talking about. And you'll have your conversations with your friends and you hear what everyone is talking about.

But yet when you go to television, no one. is talking about it. And I think that's the beauty of a platform like this is we can talk about it and we can intellectually acknowledge it. And so this is exactly what I saw. And I was thinking to myself, okay, one is, does everyone feel this? Like in the village? I did.

I can't speak for everyone. This is how I felt. Okay. Okay. And so do you think that the guys, because part of the, you know, Because you're saying a threat, really it's a threat to taking someone's partner. Yeah. Right.

So do you think that the guys saw acknowledged, participated in it, or were they just oblivious to this? It's just oblivious. I think I's, oh, they don't know what day it is. And it wasn't always like that. I'll be honest. It wasn't always like that. It wasn't the whole time everyone was at each other's throats. That wasn't the case.

But at times, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it gets teed up on TV to be a big deal. And yeah, it was. But it's drama, drama, drama. But yeah, there's times where we all got along and everything was come by and lauddi-daer in the changing room and stuff. But yeah, it was there.

There was a divide. And that naturally happens in life, though. You know, but it's high school all over again. It's high school all over again. And that phrase was a phrase I used a lot. And that was a phrase I said, even to, you know, the producers, like, you go out and you do your headspace chat and, like, be like I'm in high school all over again.

Which is not good. No. Yeah. Yeah. You just mentioned a headspace chat. I didn't know about that. What's a head space chat with? So there's producers who like sort of live in the villa.

They don't live in there, but, you know, you've got a morning producer and an evening producer. You'll go outside. You might have a vape or whatever. Or you'll talk, like, about how you're feeling, who you want to. have a chat with da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da so half-time you go out there and run you're like got to be asked with da-da-da-da-da it feels like high school all over again so that's your headspace chats and da-da-da-da so they might say in the morning oh this happened last night um why do you go and speak to the girls about it and have a conversation about that so that's

that's the producer's job um so for example the graffty's happened last night um do you want to go want to have a chat with Tony and Yazz and debrief about the graffties. And that's their job to do that. All right. Fair. Fair. Fair. That's what you do in your headspace chat.

Fair. Fair. So then just one last thought and anything else you want to say about this divide is that do you see us reaching a point where there's no longer this, this divide. You know, there's a, are you familiar with the, the doll test? Have you heard about this? So this is something that I think you in particular would love. is that there was this doll test done, and I think it's circa 1960s, but I could be wrong,

where in essence these children are given dolls, very young. They're allowed to opt the doll that they like to play with. And you see that the children of color select the dolls of color, the children not of color, so the white children, select the white dolls to play with at this at their their they're babies in essence and they opt into that and what it's suggesting is that this is a natural inclination and you can look at that and say okay there's there's there's some positives there you can look at that and say there's some negatives there and so here we are 2025 right we're all grown-ups we're you're on love

Island and then you begin to see this divide vester. I mean, what's your opinion of what does that say about us as a society? I think it even boils down to coming back to when we were talking about childhood before, people abandoning community. Even in my hometown, like we talk about the segregation of white communities, Asian communities. people find community in their own and people they have shared experiences with so even something like

if I had a conversation with someone who doesn't have the same shared experience with me might look at me a bit daft you don't feel seen or understood but then with someone you do you have common grounds to discuss it and go into it further and bond over that. I think that's sort of what happens in the villa too.

Okay. And it does. That does make sense. That's a prime example. Me and Emma. And she'll laugh about this. She'll laugh about this. I must have stole Connor off Emma.

Right? You literally did. Stole Connor off Emma. And then it was like a down day. so same-sex beds so they've put me and Emmett in a bed together we don't really know each other that well

a bit awkward not like nasty but just a bit what we're going to talk about and she turns to me and she goes do you like curry she goes do you like curry

classic South Asian bonding yes and then it's like this then it was like that oh we hit it off and we could talk about our shared experiences of being mixed race and growing up half South Asia and half English, and that's just one of those things. Like, how would we have had that conversation

if we didn't have that same shared experience, you know? Yes, absolutely. And it opened up a wider relationship then for us. Absolutely, absolutely. On Harry, got to go back on Harry, there was a very, very talked about moment that involved your mom. Yeah.

And Harry and her refusal to give him a hug, to acknowledge him. Yeah. All right. Now I'm sure you've talked to your mother about it. You've talked to Harry about it. You were there. Yeah. How is that?

I don't forget it. What's your take on what happened and why? That wasn't shocking to me. It wasn't shocking whatsoever. And I've worked myself up a little bit beforehand. because I knew what the reaction was going to be. That's my mother all over. It was never going to be,

she's a strong woman. She's raised strong-minded children and she won't shy away from things. So if she was displeased, she was going to be displeased. She weren't going to play happy families come by her. She was letting him know it was a statement. I'm not going to hug you because I'm not happy with your behaviour. And I don't want you to feel like I'm accepted because I haven't.

you know? Yes, yes. And that was a statement for her. Okay. Has she moved her position now? She said, clean slate. Because coming off, you have conversations, you explain everything else to how it works,

what they've not seen, what they've missed out on. And then my mum, again, from the segment she's seen, starts to see the bigger picture. And she said, okay, I felt this way because I'm your mother and it's been hard for me to watch this for eight weeks. And all I can't speak to you and all I'm feeling is what I'm seeing through the screen. She's quite an empath.

So if I'm upset, she's upset. She feels that. So then once we've had a discussion about it, she said, if you're happy, I'm happy. Okay. Fresh start. When you're ready, when she's ready, you know, they can start to build that relationship.

For me, that doesn't need to happen now. Fair. But she's at the clean slate. Clean Slate. Okay. That's very fair. Yeah. It's very fair.

So with Harry as well, I saw lots of commentary using the word gas lighting. Now let me say, I believe gas lighting, controlling, manipulation, etc. are overly used and misused on most of these shows. Yeah. Like literally. Now, gas lighting is this intentional. form of creating doubt, right? Especially self-doubt. Yeah.

So when you look back at the series, based on your experience in the villa, do you believe Harry was gaslighting at all? Not gaslighting me. I don't feel like he gaslighted me. There was times where I feel like he gaslighted other people. I could see that. And I made commentary and I'm not going to sit here and say, no, no, I did. I made commentary on that through the show. Maybe with Helena, I think at the Grafties, and we said it,

and we spoke about it on the show, like he sort of knew he was going to get heat from the Grafties. This is, this is my perception on it. He knew he was going to get some heat from the Grafties. Whatever was going to come up on the screen, he knows what he's done, he knew he was going to get some heat. So there was a clip of Helena talking to how. Harrison saying she fancies him, da-da-da-da-da-da. And Harry was like, oh, you fancied Harrison.

You said it was only me when you came back from the sleepover villa. Like, you said you're only interested in me. He'd never had a problem with her getting to know Harrison before because he was with me at the time. She'd done nothing wrong. But he was like, I'm going to give her a bit of heat. So then when it's my turn, we're a bit even. Like, it's not like she's in the right and he's in the wrong.

Okay. I could see that. Okay. And me and Connor looked at each other like, is he for real? like we could all see what he was doing. Okay, okay. That was north. All right, I see, I see.

But you felt never to you? No, I don't think so. Okay. So you three, the three, I see you three. Everyone now knows who the three are, right? But you, Tony, Yasmin, right? What do you believe the public's perception was of you in the villa? and how much do you believe that those in the villa think about the public's perception?

Because I've had people literally on this couch tell me one of two things. Oh, yeah, I'm not thinking about it all what happens, like what the public's thinking. And others, yeah, I'm thinking about it every night what the public is thinking. What was your experience? So the only way I can describe is your lived experience in the villa, for me, whatever you're living inside the villa you think that's the outside perception too so if you feel like the whole villa's against you

and you get told 100 times today you're wrong you're wrong you're irrelevant you do this or that that's what you start to internalize and believe is the opinion on the outside because you've got nothing else to go off so this is how you feel every day and this is why we call ourselves the outcasts, you know.

We thought we were going to come out and this was going to still be the case. So you... Us against the world in the villa. You truly felt like most of the public watching thought you were outcast, you were wrong. Yeah. And we never changed.

Like we never... This was us being us and this is my biggest piece of advice for anyone who's going to do the show. Don't go in and try and be something, you know. Even if you don't think it's going to land, well, don't try and change who you are. Because you will regret your actions. If you were doing something that you don't want to do,

you will regret it more. Live your lived experience and feel how you want to feel and react how you want to react. Yeah. So that's you being you. I mean, your testimony to that because you stayed consistent. Yeah. All the way through.

I would even argue that you even grew a louder voice. Yeah. You know, similar to school? It all goes back. It's like high school. Right. But you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you're, you know, supported. So, once you get towards the end, I would imagine people are starting to think, okay. But, but, yeah, so towards the end. So, the, the, the first two, two, I don't know what, when it was, but me and Tony were in the bottom three with Megan. with Megan. So that stayed with us

for the longest time and there was no public votes for weeks, mind you. Weeks. That was it. We were in the bottom and we're hated. That was what we thought. And then me and Ty got voted

the most compatible when I was coupled up with Ty. And I was like, oh, hold on a minute. Most compatible. Like, what? But it wasn't about, you know, favorite girl, favorite boy. It was us as a couple. So, after all, I know, Ty could have had a cult following, you know. Yes.

And I sent Tommy home that day. And I thought, and I said it, back to public enemy number one. So whatever, if they liked me and Thai together, they weren't going to like me after that. Because I'd got against the grain. Yeah, he was, and this is the thing, because in the villa, Tommy was so loved by everyone. and he was one of the popular people, I was going against the grain and sending him home. But it was my choice and my decision.

And two of my best friends were up there. And me being who I am and a loyal person to my friends, I weren't going to send them home. Wow. You stood on business the whole time? Yeah. The whole time. Now, what about this is, you know, fans' behavior, obviously,

I mean, fans didn't love Harry's behavior. Yes. And I was aware of that. And you were aware of this. Yes. So what was it about Harry that made you love him so much? Harry is an enigma. He's like, no one I've ever met before in my life.

And everyone's seen this again. It comes back to the small segment, the small segment of Harry, which is probably the worst traits of Harry. So that's the most entertaining side. but he is amazing and he does treat me so well. He's witty, he's charming, he's intelligent, all those things that I said I look for in a partner. We have the same values and things we want out of life very similar.

Like we want to get married and have children and have like a long-lasting relationship. And I think that's something very important that we both. both have bonded over because my parents have been married for such a long time and have children together and, you know, that's not a broken family. And I'm not going to talk too much about him, but he wants to have a relationship with the right person. And that's one of his biggest fears. And that's one of my biggest fears is doing life with the wrong person. Yes. Yes. So when you both left, you left as a couple but non-exclusive. Yeah.

Right. Well, not exclusive. As in we declared it. Exactly. Exactly. So I think he's very villeter. So, but really, you left as what I would imagine to be friends exploring a committed relationship. Yeah.

So where do you stand today? We're dating each other. He's not, you know, can't put a label on it, but we're dating each other. We're spending time with each other. I'm not dating anyone else. He's not dating anyone else. So you could say we're exclusively dating each other. That's exclusively dating each other.

But I think exclusive is a silly label. Because it would just be boyfriend and girlfriend is the label for me, you know? Yes. But we're just dating. Yes. You would like to be married, though. Absolutely. Could you see yourself marrying her?

Harry. They weren't happy about me either. I wouldn't date someone if I didn't see that intention with them. Yeah, I could see that. It's a waste of my time. It's a waste of their time. I would not want someone to be my boyfriend or my partner if I didn't see something long term with them. I don't need anyone. I'm very self-sufficient. I don't depend on anyone. if I'm investing time into you it's because I'm investing into a future with you Look at this, you left this show and you really won

in all senses of the word In all senses And I'm telling you I never, ever, ever In a million years anticipated to go on to that show and fall in love with someone Never in a million years

But you did Which is sounds so odd going on to Love Island. And you're not thinking that, but I didn't. Yeah. And even beyond the relationship with Harry, I think the relationship between you, Tony and Yasmin, that was really one of them. That participated in talked about. And it was really beautiful to see the show celebrate three strong women who are representing. Yeah.

And I would say that they were a bigger part of my experience than Harry was. Harry was a small part of my experience. You know, if you were tallied up the days we were together, it wouldn't be that much. Like, mine and Harry's relationship is much more, you know, coming out of the villa. Yes. Whereas my experience in the villa was Tony and Yasmin.

Every day. Every day, every morning, every evening. They were my shoulder to cry on, voice to vent to, like, I know more about them than I know about Harry. Yeah, yeah. And I'll imagine about even some of your friends from back home because of how much time. How much time we spent together? Yeah. So clearly those are your besties.

Mm-hmm. With Harry, would you say currently, where you sit right there, are you in love with him? That's a yes. Yeah. It's a yes. And I knew that very early on. Do you believe he's in love with you? I think so.

Okay. I'd like to think so. Okay. All right. That's a strong start. It's a very strong start. Very. You know, it's interesting is you've been very calm, cool and collected throughout this entire interview.

But the moment we pulled out the L word. I see your whole body changes on that. This is big. This is, this is, this is significant. This is important to you. Yeah. Yes. This is personal.

It's personal. Yeah. I like it. So in the Love Island group, like the, the Meg Helene is, I'm assuming you have no conversation with them today. No. No. Okay.

And if we see each other like, we've lived an experience together. Yes. We've lived together for eight weeks. I'm never going to walk down the street and, you know, blank them like, we've shared a lot of time together and one of the most important or life-changing experiences of our lives was shared with each other. I'll always have a conversation with them. Yes. Always.

But you, Tony and Yasmin, you must talk all the time. Yeah. All right. So now going forward, you had entered to fast track. You left as one of the most followed Love Islanders. Yeah. What? You came in second place.

Mm-hmm. What? You have a minimum of three new besties, right? Yeah. You have found love. What's next for you? World domination. I'd just be the prime minister after all.

I'll go back to that. I build a politics career. I don't know, but I'm excited. Yes. I'm excited. Who knows? Maybe back on TV. Maybe the influence in social media career. Who knows? But watch this space. Love it. Because I'm going to make it happen. Whatever wanted to do when I decided to do it, I'll make it happen. That I believe. So then last question. Everyone gets this. This is my favorite question. Still.

Okay. If you think back through all of the incredible conversation you've had in your life, which conversation stands out? out to you as the most memorable. Who was it with? And what did you learn? My high school teacher told me, and this is when I was upset one day about some girls at school. And she said to me, when did a lion ever care about the opinion of sheep?

You could choose it, you want to be. You'd rather be a lion. That was going to stay with me. I loved it. You know, Shakira, you are very impressive. I didn't know what I was going to get when you walked in, you know. You've never done an interview before, so I couldn't go back and look at how you showed up in that interview. But I had quite a bit of research, and obviously saw you on the show, but didn't know exactly who I was going to get.

And you have thoroughly impressed me. Thank you. Thoroughly impressed me. You are clever. You are all the things. What is it? witty witty charming

you're a witty charming and intelligent you are and I have no doubt that anything that you choose to do anything that you choose to do you will be able to accomplish and I want to make sure that I say this I think this is very important is

you are exactly who we need right now representing us you're exactly who we need. Thank you. That means a lot. Whatever my preconceived notions were, Shakira blew through all of them.

Just exceptionally impressive. She's someone who is tenacious, but extremely mature for her age of being only 22. The entire conversation around identity was poetic, especially as you see it play out in Love Island. What I love is how unapologetic she was in her conversation around identity.

What she was saying is not meant to offend anyone, but it is to empower people. Everyone who watch Love Island must see this conversation to fully understand who she is. Our childhood shapes how we show up as adults. And you could even see the boldness and the fierceness of Shakira came from her having to develop that voice. Or actually, she had it, lost it, and had to regain it. Lessons for me is the importance of being unapologetically you, speaking truth to power, consistently doing that.

She had the dream of Love Island in order to monetize the... the brand that she builds off of Love Island. Love was just a bonus. Look at that. She got her bonus. Shakira just might be the greatest thing to come from this season of Love Island.