We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - "The audition went horribly wrong!" Shirley Ballas & Ore Oduba on Strictly Come Dancing

Episode Date: September 17, 2026

Strictly Come Dancing legends Shirley Ballas and Ore Oduba reveal what really happens behind the scenes of television’s biggest show. From surviving severe online hate and high-stakes audition blunders to navigating intense imposter syndrome, Shirley and Ore share the emotional lows, career pivots, and life-changing moments that come with performing in front of 14 million people. We're Talking Strictly Come Dancing! (00:00) Intro(01:13) Ore's Strictly Journey and Finding Himself Through Dance (12:13) How Shirley Became a Strictly Judge (17:42) Why Strictly Became a National Phenomenon (19:22) How Shirley Feels About Strictly's Critics (21:19) Why Shirley Loves Being Part of Strictly (22:55) The Celebrity Shirley Would Love to See on Strictly (23:40) The Most Surprising Strictly Contestants Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to We're Talking. In today's episode, I sit down with Strictly Come Dancing Legends, Shirley Ballas, and O'Re Oduba, to talk about the show that has captivated millions of people and the very different journeys that brought them to the dance floor. I had no clue how large the viewership was, how committed the audience was to strictly. I had no clue until we... We need to talk. We've had various people who've been on Strickley and We Need to Talk. So I believe that when you were on Strictly, we're talking about over 13 million people watching.

I think the peak audience that watched that final was over 13, maybe 14 million people. It's way over 50% of the viewership. And you think that moment is crazy because that will be 10 years ago next year. Look at that. It'll be 10 years ago. Look at that. And when I say your name. What I, what people tell me is that they associate you with news round and strictly.

Right. They're like, wasn't that the guy that went strictly? Yeah, I know exactly who he is, right? So it's one of those where it was this moment in history, from what I understand, you always wanted to be a part of Strickley. Yeah. This was a dream of yours. This was.

Which is interesting. Yeah. Yeah, it was a dream of yours. But now understanding how you came alive on stage, it makes sense to do. Yeah. And do you know what was so crazy? Because I had forgotten about that person, that Spice Girls performing kid. And it was only about half right through that series that a light went off.

And I went, oh my, oh my God. This is everything that used to bring me to life. And it was visceral. It was visceral because I approached that series going, I really want to put in all of this industry and all of this work that I've ever loved and learned and all of that, you know, trying to excel that I've been taught along with this show that I've adores,

you know, you all know Bruce Forsyth. Yes, absolutely. Was anything that Bruce touched turned to gold? It was a huge hit. And from 18 years old, I wasn't bothered about Saturday nights going out and Chase and, girls. I wanted to watch that show that Bruce was hosting. And while I start working at the BBC, you know, on a Saturday, the whole building comes to life. You know, there's a buzz around,

I always compare it to Wonka's factory. There's a buzz around, you know, the chimneys are smoking because there's life in that building now. And the audience is queuing around the corner. And I feel like a kid with my nose pressed up against the window, go, I want to be, I want to be in there. I don't know what happens in there, but I'd love to be in there. And everybody wants to be on strictly. And I remember them giving me a call

just to meet. And I thought, they know who I am. They know who I am. I'm nobody. This is wild. I might, in five years' time, I might have a chance to be on that show. And I remember going to that meeting and going,

I mean, I'm going to tell them how obsessed I am with the show. I've been watching it at this point now for over 10 years. And every single winner, I remember that dance. I remember that score. I remember that moment when it went wrong on television. You were strictly. I was a super fan and I did not hide it. And I thought, well, you know, maybe they'll pick up the phone in a couple of years' time.

But I think I'd put my best foot forward and I didn't hide it. And two months later, I got the call. and I wasn't ready for what was going to happen. Of course, this wasn't planned, let alone being on the show. We had had conversations, but being on the show was one thing. Going through that course for four months, like you said, in people's homes, in people's families, the affection and, and the connection they have to the show,

how much it brings people's hearts alive. And I'm having this self-discovery in the middle of a going, oh, okay, hold on. This isn't just the show that I was a fan of. This is a person that had been dimmed for decades that is now starting to say, hello, I'm still here, by the way. And so, you know, that series for me was an awakening because we just didn't want to go home, Paul.

We knew we weren't the best pair, but we just weren't. We both, I was dancing with a world champion who had themselves from childhood had been working every second of their day to be at the very, very top. And that for me was like being given the Christiana Ronaldo of the dance world. You've got the opportunity to get everything you need to be the very best that you can be. This is Joanne. This is my beautiful Joanne. Yes. So Joanne was a world champion, right?

You have to admit, you walked in not too bad. Not too bad. After a couple of tequila's, Paul, everyone's not too bad. Not too bad. Okay, so not too bad. So what I want to know is what made you feel? like you and Joanne were the outsiders. I guess I was a notebook people.

I was achieving and I was enjoying my career at that point. But, you know, we're in a room full of people who've sold out arenas in the music industry, people who have prime time household name status on television, who've come back from the Olympic Games with gold medals. and I'm going, I don't know why I'm here. I'm so thrilled that I've been invited to be here. But I think, and I was told this actually, there was a moment in the first couple of weeks

where we might have been dumped out. And I think about that and think, I wouldn't be sat here with you had, A number of votes got a different way. And my whole life might have hinged on that. Look at that. Because it was only through winning that show that gave me the confidence to do some crazy stuff.

And I guess what the audience saw is a transformation because I did go from somebody that not many people knew who put heart-soul, tears into every step. step and I look back at that series now and I think of the person that was, I still have people to this day come up to me and go, you cried a lot on telly, didn't you? And it's so fascinating for because this is only 2016. Now we are so desperate to find men especially comfortable with emotion, yes, visibly. If you rewind that that person who always wanted to be that, always wanted to be validated for expressing themselves

in a way that felt authentic to themselves, but never was. And you'll get in the judges. Not only heap and praise, that's kind of their job. They've got to be enthusiastic. They've got to try and help you along. But really seeing that here is someone who is falling in love with this incredible art form, really committing themselves and actually kind of turning into, maybe as far as I know, the person that they were always meant to be, right before their very eyes. Yes. So for me to hear that from the people that I looked up to, having not had it, that was the inner child going, I'm getting the thing that I've always wanted.

Yes. I could see it. such an inflection point for you. Huge. Huge. And again, it wasn't about winning. It really wasn't. I just thought, one amazing opportunity.

One incredible opportunity to learn, to find out something about yourself. And this was decade before my therapy journey. One amazing opportunity to find something about yourself in an environment that is safe, that is uplifting, that is about learning, that it's about expression. Yes, you have got to be a lot of. to put on show for 12 million people. But for six days of that week, you are going into a place that you never knew existed. And that, for anybody, is really the only moment that you started discovering who you really are.

Yes. And that was happening right in front of people's eyes. And it was happening for me, for the first time in my adult life. when you found out that you want, I saw the clip. But now that you can reflect back upon that moment, truly, how did you feel with that moment? Utter disbelief because you kind of, if you have had those moments where you know,

and I know you're a very present person, but sometimes things happen to you that you're, something leaves. and you're able to have this kind of bird's eye view of what's actually happening. Yes. You leave yourself. That happened.

I remember just trying, seeing confetti and all of these amazing people that we'd been on this path and this journey with and kind of going, I think my life is changing. And I don't know how. how it looks tomorrow. This is everything that I've ever dreamed of.

I have to make it count. And I think had we not want it, I wouldn't have been brave enough to make a pivot. So what was the pivot and why? I remembered the kid that I was. And I remembered that being on stage is somewhere where I came alive. And I thought, I don't know how,

but I need to make that I need to make that matter now. I need to go down that route. And as a winner of Strictly, those doors are open. It's up to you to keep them open. Mark said to me at lunch one day, I hear Uncle Len, because we've known Len all our life, it was also one of my teachers, is leaving Strictly come dancing. I said, and where did you hear that? He said, on the great vine, mum, why don't you inquire and see? I said, no one's going to want a 57-year-old lady to go into TV who's never sat behind camera lights. He said, but how do you know if you don't try?

Anyway, I was due to sit with Strictly Come Dancing over another student. It was actually A.J. At the time, talking about different talent because I find talent for all the shows around the world to do with Strictly dancing with the stars around the world. And Leng's name came up. And I said, well, I've heard they might be leaving and they were a little bit coy.

And I said, you know, it would be nice to think. I think that one day perhaps you could have a woman in that role. And eventually they asked me, would I like to have an audition for that? And I said to Mark, should I, should not? He said, absolutely, I paid my own way over, had the audition, which went horribly wrong. And what, because I've heard you say that this was a horrible audition. Horrible experience. What was the audition?

Well, I flew in from L.A. I had sciatic. I've had a bad back for 25 years. had sciatic I could barely walk one foot in front of the other and they made me all up it was early in the morning all the eyelashes and the hair and a long dress

they sat me behind all these cameras green lights red lights I've never done that and then they sat next to me this huge human being which turned out to be Craig Revel Horwood and I didn't know him at all and then he just sat there you know and he

you know how he does like this just Craig I'm more friends and chitty-chatti, but I sat there frozen. It was freezing in the studio. And up come the cameras and the lady said, now we're going to throw a couple upon the screen, you've 15 seconds to critique it. You know, what would you say in 15 seconds? Now, I'm used to a 45-minute lesson where I can go from your feet to the top of your head. I thought to myself, I can do this, I can do this. And up there she comes, Anne Whittaker spinning in that yellow dress like a bird on the floor.

This gentleman turned around to me, goes, we haven't got all week, darling, 15 seconds. So I missed that one. So I said, well, I'm so sorry. I'm looking at the red and the green, all the wrong cameras. Could we try somebody else? And then it was Gangum style. And I just failed miserably.

It was just a mess. Anyway, they called me graciously. She called me. How do you think you did? I said, to be honest, shit. Awful. Sorry for the language. But it was bad.

Very bad. She said, could you change your airline ticket and come in for another audition tomorrow in a pair of jeans and a blouse, one cameraman and me? And then they showed me something else and I sat up all night. Mark, of course, is in L.A., going through things and I nailed that one. Look at that. And the rest is history. And then I went back to L.A. I've done the best that I could do. And I got the call when I was teaching in work. And they said, we'd like to offer you the job. Couldn't believe it. My son was the first. person I called and he could tell by my face he because you got that job didn't you mom and he's been he dressed me he gave me advice on how he thought I should dress and um the devil wears Prada

I remember him saying to me those tailored suits and chic look you know yes so and that's how that journey began because of him always been there for me yeah in everything I didn't realize how integral he was in you getting that role not just getting the role but styling for you the role, everything. Everything. And even after the first series, he said to me, now listen to me,

Mum, these dancers don't want to be British champions. He said, I switch my TV on to watch you. And even I was scared. He said, you've got those glasses, your face is too firm.

The general public will never warm to you. And I'd signed a two-year contract. And he said, you're going to have to soften the edges. It was an ongoing process because it was years and years of me trying to protect myself

as a, you know, that little vulnerable child. And I think gradually now I've gotten there. I've learned to talk about your critique with a smile on my face, rather than saying, now dear, Paul, what an earth was that footwork? Paul, what are you doing with your feet? Let's see what we can do. So I think I've generally learned, you know, that they,

and I do give good firm feedback. You know, for the first six or seven weeks, I'm quite, quite firm but fair and kind. And always, as Mark says, give them hope. Yes. Keep hope alive. Yeah. Keep hope alive. So now that was, your career was blossoming, but the media, from what I understand, was giving you a hard time,

especially in that 2017 year. I wouldn't say it was the media. I think now when I look back, it was the people that were selling their stories. My ex-husband sold this story for thousands and thousands and thousands and made me out to be this awful person. but back then nobody knew who this person was so nobody could really relate. Yes.

So it didn't really have the effect, you know, that it would have like today, if you know what I mean. But now with Strickley being so big, like you, I mean, you probably know the numbers better than me, but when I was looking at that, like, I'm still blown away at the size of Strickley. We're 54% share of the TV. Like that. Everybody who was watching live TV last year, we were 50%. 53 to 54% of all live TV. The nation loves this show.

Absolutely. From the grandchildren to the grandparents to everybody in between. I'll get in a taxi and the man will say, don't tell anybody, Mrs. Ballas, I recognize you from the TV. You know, I watch, I watch. You know, so it's the nation's one of the last shows, live shows, to still be going on. Bourbos, bangles and beads on a Saturday evening when the cold weather's coming.

As soon as strictly starts, we know. know we are the run-up to Christmas. To Christmas. Yes, it is that season. It's that season, a cold season. We all come in the house. They can get a takeaway or cook their little things and have a glass of wine and get together and talk about or criticize the armchair people that have watched it, you know,

much longer than me, let's say. Yes. But do you feel like, okay, when that season comes, you're excited, but yet you know here comes the criticism as well? Does that wait on you? And I'll give you my, my, my time. take because this is actually my season too, Shirley. Okay.

This is when Marriott at First Sight hits the air, right? And what I always feel is I feel excited. Marriott's site is on air. We've worked all year for this. This is going to be incredible. But at the same time, I know, okay, here come the critics. Get this guy off TV. He shouldn't be on.

Right? So I know it's coming, not just for me, but for everyone. Do you feel that same way with Strickley? I used to feel that way, you know, 2017, 18 and 19 were some of the worst years of people doing stick figures with my face on and coffins and die you bitch and some of the worst trolling that I was just learning about. I was not on social media. So 2017 and 18 I'm just learning about this thing and about trolls. I had no idea. That was hard to navigate. And for the thousands and thousands of wonderful compliments that I got, I'd focus on the negative ones. You've, you've, you've You've got bingo wings, you're wrinkled, you look too heavy, you've got no business, what do you know, you know. I think that Louise did a very good move when she made me dance the samba on season 2017 to open the show. And people could see that I could dance.

And again, they've had the judges dance now on this opening number and quite a long number. I think over a minute I get to dance the samba and Mottie gets to do the rumber and Anton's doing his Foxtrot and Craig's the host. and we're going through the 70s, 80s and 90s era with all the boys. It's a fantastic opening to new professionals. And, you know, we're all going to be clamoured back on, you know, we're not in those pods anymore. We're going to be sitting shoulder to shoulder the judges. So I'll be able to touch Craig and Anton and Mottie will be really, really close.

So I think this year is going to prove to be iconic. And of course, who wouldn't get excited about that? Exactly. But I still have my own job. I'm running up to the international championships at the Royal Albert Hall in October. You know, so I have all the competitive couples and then I'm working hard to get them where they need to go. And then I have the Strictly job. I literally have to switch a button, press a red button to light camera action.

And then back to teaching the kids to get into the international lights camera action. So clearly you love doing Strictly. I love dance. I love music. I love watching people come on this show getting all excited. You know, people need to. remember I danced with a pro amateur. Yes.

I danced with Corky. I know what it's like to be a professional and have a beginner amateur. Yes. I know what it's like. So when those people walk down the stairs, I go back to my memories when I started with Corky. Yes. So I've been there. I've done that and I've got the T-shirts.

And of course, I've watched my own son for over 20 years on his show. So yeah, I get excited about that and going in on a Saturday. and we don't finish till the week before Christmas this year. So it's a full run. And it's going to be an iconic show. When are you going to do it, by the way? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

I tell you what. You're next. I tell you what, Shirley. I am, you know, I love to dance. Wow. I love to dance. But I haven't danced in so long. You know, it's one of those where I think I let life just take me.

You know, but I was... It runs away with you. Before you know it, you'll be my age. You have a beautiful ballroom neck. You've got turned out feet. So if you ever want to do it, just let us know, okay? I've turned out feet. Yes, I've got your little...

This, what's see you this for? Certainly. It's not like this. That's a good thing. It's a good thing. A lot in you. Yeah, maybe one day, huh? Maybe one day.

Maybe one day. Now, with strictly being on air, clearly there's so many incredible celebrities that are on, but do you have that one celebrity you've always wanted to come on? I want Tom Jones to come on. Where is he? The love of my life or a person from the royal family

haven't quite got there yet. Yes. But I think sometimes the celebrity comes on and I actually don't know them because like people didn't know me. I was at the top of my industry. Nobody knew who I was. So sometimes we all live in bubbles.

You live in your bubble world. I live in my bubble world. Danny Dyer and all these other ones. They all live in their own little bubbles. And then we get the opportunity to go into their different bubbles. And by the first few weeks, you're falling in love with people. Yes. And I can't even ask you to compare the line-ups.

Because it's one of those where each year just must be just rewarding to you. Well, who would have thought Bill Bailey would have won? He came down in his gold trousers week one. And I looked at Motzzi and I went, he did his chop, chop, chan. I turned to Motzzi and said, oh, I'm not sure. He went on to win. You know why? He worked harder than everybody else.

He studied his craft. He knew everything about my career. He knew everything about every dance he was doing. He was a musician. And he just did the right amount of everything. And the audience fell in love with him. So I was going to ask you, who was your biggest surprise over the years? Was he your biggest surprise?

Bill Bailey was for sure. And then Kelvin Fletcher is stepping in at the last minute for Jamie Lang. He wasn't even supposed to be on the show. He went on to win. At the end of the day, this show doesn't belong to me or anybody else. It belongs to the nation and they get to vote. And in the final, they get to pick the winner. And I think that's how it should be.

Yes, fair enough. And if you want to hear the full, unfiltered stories from today's guest, you can check them out on the We Need to Talk page. Drop a like, leave a comment, and hit subscribe. See you next week. This family is on the brink of civil war. On September 18th, Mobland. The hit original series is back on Paramount Plus.

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