We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - The Hear’Say And Liberty X Feud That Changed British Pop

Episode Date: July 30, 2026

Before The X Factor, there was Popstars - the reality show that created Hear’Say, led to Liberty X and changed British pop culture overnight. Myleene Klass and Michelle Heaton share what really happened behind the scenes, from being thrown into overnight fame and branded winners and losers, to the press-fuelled rivalry between the two groups, the money they never saw and the mismanagement that helped bring it all crashing down. We're Talking Popstars! (00:00) Intro (00:30) How Michelle Was Cast on Popstars (03:41) What Happened After Popstars Ended? (06:33) How Liberty X Was Formed (10:44) The Manufactured Rivalry Between Liberty X and Hear'Say (13:54) The Rise and Success of Liberty X (15:54) How Myleene Klass Was Cast on Popstars (17:45) How Popstars Changed Myleene Klass's Life (21:49) The Wild West of the Music Industry in the 2000s (25:33) Why Hear'Say Split Up (29:06) Myleene Klass's Favourite Memory From Hear'Say Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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So how do you get on to Pop Stars? Yeah. So the Steered newspaper was a bi-weekly paper, newspaper, that listed all the auditions and what was happening in the industry. I remember it said, do you want to be the next five or Spice Girl? I think it said, we're looking for mixed group. He's the open auditions. And I was like, right, right, I wouldn't need to save money for London.

But actually, they came to Newcastle. Ah, okay. So I went along to the audition. I had a song prepared. I was going to sing. Everything I do, I do it for you by Brian Adams. That was like my go-to. So in that moment, it didn't felt too weird.

There was a lot of production around more than what I was used to. Okay. But it wasn't anything different. So the thought of it being a big, massive TV show, hadn't been on our horizon. Okay. Because it was the first one. Yes.

We hadn't seen anything like this before. That's true because there's no X factor at this time. Pop Stars was the first television, what do you call it, show that creeps? Manufactured band. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And so for me, it was another audition.

And then you got through to the next round, and then you got given lyrics to sing. This shows everybody to sing Reach for the Stars from S Club 7. What was different about this was that we were all singing in front of each other. Okay. I was used to closed auditions, whereas this was open. Everybody was there, sat behind you and people were cheering you along and there was so much talent in that room.

I thought I had absolutely no chance. And I wasn't a professional anything. I was a professional blagger. I still am. Like, I always say fake it to you make it. I think a lot of people are like that. They just don't want to admit it. And then there was a weekend in Birmingham where there was the final 50.

And then London. And then that was a week. And then there was the final 10. Then the final 10. So now was the show on air while you were going through? No. No. So it's pre-recorded. Yes.

So it's all pre-recorded. And I had left my dancing gig at the nightclub to do this. And so about a week after they had done. their final 10, they come to our houses and tell us whether we're in or not. So obviously, I didn't get in. And it was six months before they aired the first episode. So we all signed a contract, obviously saying that, you know, we wouldn't talk about it. Okay.

So I couldn't say anything to anybody. And back then, you know, now I signed it and DM, I might tell a few of you all. But obviously, I was like, I was scared. I was scared about saying the wrong thing. So I didn't say anything to anybody. I had to beg for my job back. They didn't want to give me my job back. And I was begging because that was, that was it.

Yes. Like there was no money, you know. Yeah. That, there was six, five, six months of auditioning just ended. And then I'm back to square one. Yes. And I had no job, you know, no career. I was almost 21.

And those were like, back in those days, the cut off age at which they wanted people to audition. Okay. So I knew it was kind of like the end. On the show then, on pop stars, you could, to the final 10. And I find this very interesting because I've talked to my lane class. She was in the final 10, right? And I understand what happens with her group.

But tell me about what happens to you and the forming of Liberty Acts. Because I find this to be really interesting. I'm sure Kel is going to tell me I've got it wrong because I think I have got it slightly wrong. I live in a bit of a bubble as well, Paul. So I kind of imagine things. Things differently. Okay.

So how do you remember it? So I remember it as we all stayed in touch the other five because the five and hearsay blocked us. Oh, really? But even before that. But they were probably told that. But at the time we were saw. But even before that, though, because I wasn't here during that time.

So I've only seen clips. So then the five that are then selected and when that group becomes hearsay. Yes. I would imagine they had a contract immediately and they become quite popular. Yeah, yeah. I mean, huge. You know, there was about six months between me being told I wasn't in and when the first one was aired. And in that six months, I believe, obviously, Miley would have had a better account of it.

That's when they went somewhere. They got their sit together. They learned dance routines. They recorded music. They did the whole PR thing. You know, changed their four numbers, which. Which I knew who was in it as well because I tried to ring them straight after. Nassie Nigel said I wasn't in.

And obviously they weren't picking up because their phones were gone. So this is where you think that they were told the block. Oh, absolutely. 100%. But why? I know that was a different time period, but why? I think it was just all to do with exclusivity and privacy and, you know, NDAs flying around. And the fact that they, I don't know.

I don't want to put words in their mouths. They can answer that. I don't know if they were told to, you know, block everybody, but we were. And so I believe, or I like to believe that wasn't from them. Right. It was from, you know, the voices above. Management, whatever. Because we all got on really well.

And I wanted to ring Suzanne and, you know, and see how she got on and say, oh, my God, well done. And we didn't get the opportunity to do that, you know. Okay. And so I would imagine that wasn't on them. Okay. Fair. Fair. So then you are thinking about what your life is now going to be. What's it going to look like? So how does Liberty X come about? You know, we all stayed in touch. And then the time came around where ITV wanted us to come and do a bit of press for the show as the five losers. We weren't called the five losers by ITV, but we subsequently were called that henceforward. And I remember us, my memory of it, is that we got together the night before we were due to do a good morning Britain on one of those shows, Lorraine.

And we were at Kelly's apartment and Tony had arranged an Irish phone interview for radio. And I remember we all started, they asked us to sing. So we all sang Bridge Under Troubled Water, which was the song in which we sang at the auditions. They were like, you guys should be a band. This is my fluffy memory of it. And so we were like, yeah, why not? And so the next year when we're live on TV and we sang that again, we said we want to be a band.

We're going to be a band. We didn't really know what that looked like. We was like, why not? We weren't signed to ICV or pop stars. They never retained us. Okay. They let us go. that is like that is basically the main reason why all of these participants in these shows hence forward

are contracted to an inch of their life going forward because they missed it with us they let us go so you're saying specifically because they missed your group they missed an opportunity to micromanage and take commission from anybody else from that process or all or from that specific process. So Liberty X set a precedent now and therefore everyone gets signed. Yeah, because we were, you know, told throughout the whole process until that moment that the losers couldn't do anything.

It was just the winners. It was just those five people. It was not us. We were done and that was it. And so when we announced that we wanted to start as a band, it was news to them. and my fluffy kind of rainbow covered memory is that when we announced it

Richard Branson was watching the TV show we were on I believe it was Lorraine but Kelly said it was another one and he rang Lorraine or got in touch with her somehow and said that he wanted he loved the idea of an underdog and he owned Virgin Records V2 Records and would love to sign us

and that was that day. Oh, wow. And so I never left London. We, you know, over the course of the next few weeks, Lorraine also, the lovely Lorraine who's been with my personal journey throughout my whole time, she puts us in contact with a manager,

Gary, who subsequently became Liberty X's manager that day as well. Okay. And we got management in the next few weeks, who then helped financially relocate us to London until we started getting money from our advances. Yes. And we signed a major record label.

That's incredible. And what was that? Richard Branson, like, over the course of just maybe a few weeks. Yeah, that's incredible. All of this happens. And I'm like, this is mental. Like, we all thought this is absolutely insane. saying, like we are literally in Richard Branson's house.

We are at his record label and we're doing a press conference. And he held me upside down and Jessica, he poured champagne over her head. All in this unrealistic, like, distorted reality, we are living right then. And it was mega. Yeah, yeah. That's incredible. I don't know about the pouring the champagne over the head, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It all sounds, I mean, what also is surreal. You couldn't make it up. Yeah, you can't make it up. And also, those stories don't happen. It feels like it doesn't happen anymore. It just doesn't happen. Just you're on TV. He sees you. On TV. He's like, hey.

I'm going to sign you to a deal. Okay. Yeah, okay. I want to ask you about this is that I know that who was it that called you all the flop stars? Because that seemed like that was a title that stuck. Yeah. From my memory, I believe it was hearsay. But I think it was fueled by press.

Okay. So ultimately, press were the ones who labeled us the names. I see. And almost pinned you two against each other. Absolutely. So there was a war from the get-go. As soon as we released up, we were going to be a band and start to release music, we were constantly battled against each other.

in a world that we were trying to navigate. You know, we didn't have, there was six months prior, like years, they had to adapt to what was coming and a team around them. You know, we were signed to an indie label effectively. And, you know, we weren't groomed. We, you know, we didn't have that team. And so we felt like we were almost set out to the lions. You know, we didn't have media training.

Interesting. It was just, I think what the attraction was for Liberty, towards Liberty, we were only liberty at the time was that we were raw and that was quite evident because we didn't know when to stop talking or what or what not to say and we were on the fact that we were able to we were able to bring our creative energy to what we put out there which was which usually doesn't happen well doesn't happen to manufacture bands actually but the press battled us and hearsay off from the get-go flop stars wannabies the five losers and And it was evident that they wanted us to fail. Not just HSA as a team, but the people around them. And so that would have then stirred up the pot with the HSA members in order to, you know, add fuel to the fire when they did interviews about how they were bigger and better and we were not so.

And that we were running on their court tails. Yeah. I mean. How did you feel? Because you were, these were your friends, you know, a few months prior. when you were filming? It felt, it felt really harsh. We didn't know how to navigate it.

It felt like it wasn't the five people that we met in the auditioning process. And along all of this, all I kind of wanted to do was reach out to Suzanne. Yeah. Because that's like one of the people that I got really close to and, and be like, how is it?

Like, what's it like? Yes. Like, I bet it's amazing. Like, I really want to. wanted to share that with her. And at no point did I see what we were doing is hanging on their cocktails. And I have to say, like, my skin's not, I say it's thick, just really paper thin. If it wasn't for the rest of the Liberty X members, I don't think I would have got through

it as well as that I did. But we had each other and that's what made our strength, I think, as a band. You know, one thing about Liberty X, and I say Liberty X, and I say Liberty because it was you were Liberty. Yeah. And then was it some other group had Liberty or I don't know. Some man group got a bit sore the subject who wanted that wanted them their name back. So they were Liberty.

So I'm sure they've used it well. And so yeah, they took us to court, you know. And then you become Liberty X. That's right. Now I think what and I don't want to even stir up more issues between you and hearsay. Oh, no. But I, but I. As I can see my.

in my eye line right here. Because we love hearsay here, right? But one thing I didn't realize was how successful Liberty X was, right? So Liberty X, you have now, so achieved international success. So the album featuring just a little, right, that single was the ninth best-selling single in 2002. Yeah. Right? That's major.

Yeah. Also, the group, you had 10 consecutive UK top 20 singles. So is, is it, or should I say, am I correct in saying that Liberty X sold more than hearsay? Yeah, that would be correct. Yep. Yeah, we did. We had three albums and we had a big, massive sellout tour. We won a Brit award for our song and for two album awards and we won an Ivan Lavelo

Award. And so, yes. So putting it frankly, yeah, ultimately Liberty X were more successful than hearsay. At IKEA, we make things just for college life like the Rosenmandel blackout curtains in grey. They say you can't put a price on sleep, but we did for the low low price of $49.99. Why are you in my room? Shh, you have a big exam tomorrow. Shop back to school at IKEA.

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The first question I have is that you're a classically trained artist. So at all are you thinking there's any shame doing pop? Does family place any shame on you for going in this direction? My dad was horrified that I'd given up a year's work as Mary Magdalene. And it's Mary Magdalene, don't forget. Yes. Yes. For six weeks in a band.

I was told you'll get a six weeks work in a band over Christmas. And I was like, well, that sounds fun. I had a culture shock because I was sitting in this room and everyone was crying. And everyone was unprepared. and no one had learnt their lines or their songs and they'd been given parts to learn and you're going to be given different configurations and they're going to see which songs blend with which voices

and learn the dance moves. And I could not get it in my head that nobody was learning it. And that's not even Asian value. That's like Royal Academy and that's being in Miss Saigon in West End Theatre and it's like just the training is do the job that someone's asked you to do. But in so doing it, I nearly lost out

because one day the rehearsal pianist didn't show up. and that's how I got in the band I was playing I remember it was a certain member of Liberty X who was like I don't know what I'm singing I haven't cut my music

and I'll cut your music for you and I cut it down to I don't know 20 bars and I was playing it and then Nigel Liscoe Paul Asum Nikki Chapman they all walked in and Nigel said

you can play the piano why didn't you say and I was like you never asked that's still the deal yeah all right so you're now in the group and your thought is that you're going to be a part

of something for just a few weeks, and that's it. So help, for everyone who had not seen pop stars, though, how does the show end, and then how does that catapult the group into the zeitgeist of the UK public? It's so weird, because I wrote two years' worth of diaries around this entire experience. And when I read them back,

and when I look back at all of this, and then I match it up to what was going on, you know, on the outside, I suppose, looking in. I mean, it was fame like you could never ever, you know, encounter. It was like parody. It was like something like a spinal tap or it was like the Beatles. People were coming to our shows and there were crushes at the signings and it was overnight fame selling millions of records that we'd only just heard the song ourselves. It was, it was pretty instantaneous. And I was so glad to have the rest of the band going through it at the same time.

And so as much as we were all together all the time, probably driving each other nuts, also we became like family because it was just us. But we were at the absolute height. It was both the Halcyon Days of Fame. Yes. Because, as I know, 25 million tuned in to see us become this band, get the number one and what happens now?

It was 25 million. Yes. It was this event viewing. It was just the beginning of the internet, it was the beginning of camera phones. Because we were right at the very dawn of it. I remember it very clearly. Somebody first put in their phone in my face and Danny from the band going, oh my God, the phones have got cameras now. We're not safe. It was just, it was all happening at once because before that we had the flip phones. We were like we were advertising the flip phones. Yeah. I mean, that's practically at that time, that's practically half the population of the UK. That's incredible. Oh, it was, it's so, you know, I say it to my children now, try to paint the picture for them what it was like. But it was just, it was overnight fame and it was just huge. So pure and simple, first, right? It debuts at number one in the UK charts.

It becomes the fastest selling debut single at the time, right? So sets a record for that. So can we speak to what actually happened behind the scenes? Here's when I once again I was not here So I didn't live through it But I've now experienced it I've lived through the culture of it I've lived through the culture of it for sure

And I've lived and I've now lived through the research of it And what I find to be so fascinating is I don't think I've ever seen a group Go from obscurity To notoriety And then break up in such a short period of time Yeah Because it was in essence Correct me if I'm wrong

here, 2000, 2001. Yeah. To 2002? About 18 months. 18 months. I mean, we thought we were going to be bigger than you too. We didn't even get, I don't know, we got out of one territory. I think we got number one in New Zealand as well. Okay.

But now I know the nature of the beast and how it worked and how it operated. You know, it's that be careful what you wish for. We had everything. But we were also broke. We had these number ones, but, you know, we didn't have the advance through yet. We didn't know how the business side of music worked. I knew music. I knew every chord.

I knew some of the chords better than the producers working with us. But I didn't know business. Did you have agents assigned to you? Oh, boys, we have agents. But problem number two, it just is an industry, as we are learning, that can attract any facet of society, any kind of character. There is no graded scheme of entry. You can have a mate who's like, oh, do you know what?

my brother drives cars. And suddenly the next thing you know, he's the driver, next thing you know, he's the tool manager. Suddenly you can work your way up in a very different manner. And you don't know, you know, no one's DPS checked. Nobody's, there's nothing. Right. It's just, it's not like, hi, I'm a brain surgeon.

I'll have a go. Right. It's a very different set of rules and operational skills. The music industry is the Wild West. Yes. Now, when did you first recognize it was the Wild West? Because I would imagine that when you enter the show, you're still somewhat guarded,

you're very optimistic about what's going to happen, you don't know how large you're going to be, and then as the notoriety comes, that's when, should I say, leeches come. Oh, yeah. Right? But what was the first moment where you realized,

oh my God, what am I doing here? What's going on? What is this? I mean, there were so many of those epiphanies that it was just really, relentless. I think it was what the gloves came off when anyone could say anything they wanted to about your families. I found information where they were trying to find out about my family in the Philippines, you know, really digging deep. And you are then answerable to all those people.

You have a responsibility. So you're not now just singing pure and simple all three and a half minutes of it on stage and learning the dance routines. You're now trying to look after your family. There's people coming out that suddenly they need money. I mean, I never knew I had so much family. They were suddenly like... Interesting. So people coming out, the woodwork... Oh, yeah.

Best friends that you hadn't spoken to. Everybody, you know, it... And it's a lot, it's a lot for young minds to deal with. Yes. On top of the constant scrutiny, the body image scrutiny, the sexuality, who you're with, who you're not with, what you said, what you didn't say. So who do you... you trust at this time?

Only each other. Only each other. I mean, my hands are tied because there's so much I would love to say to you, but obviously there was other forces at play as well with bone-tappings and things. But I guess you can move between the lines that the only time we can really be really safe is when we're just talking to each other. But then you imagine five of us trauma-bonded, all going through the same thing, all terrified that each other's secrets or family secrets or worries or woes.

And sometimes those stories would be fake. Sometimes those stories would be planted. Sometimes those stories, yeah, are used to cover up something else. Like you never know what's true. Well, you've got to remember no agent is a lone shark. All agents, you know, they might have other bands. So all you need to do if you really want to start getting into it is match up which agent has which bands and match up which person got protection.

And suddenly it all starts to make sense. And then suddenly you start realizing, well, who is who's playing what? Which role? Yeah. So is it, did you feel protected during that time? We were not protected. We were not protected. We were almost bait, I would say.

I have been screwed over by agents, managers, dodgy accountants. Can we talk about the end of the group before it disbanded? Yeah. Because it was one thing that I read is that, you know, there were moments where, where you were touring and as you said, it's people, it's thousands upon thousands showing up, cheering you on. Yeah. But then there were moments towards the end where there weren't cheers.

No. No. I remember someone throwing chicken chamein at me. That's how the racism came back in again on stage. Things like that. Yeah. Or nobody showing up, no manager, no tour manager. I remember my brother because he wasn't old enough to drive,

getting on his bike to drop off a DAP tape so that we could perform So the Greek could perform We I got told by my manager Because I said The backdrops really creased

What are we going to do And he went you're going to have to iron it Have you ever seen how big a backdrop is Literally you're going to have to iron He's like you're going to have to iron it I'm like where are you Turned out he was Where he shouldn't have been

So that I had a phone call from his wife That's how hearsay ended It fizzled It just was left It was left to die I closed down. I turned the lights out. Literally.

I literally turned the lights out and it was heartbreaking because at the time I didn't want it to end. It was, we took a vote, everything was about a vote. And I've made peace with it now because I realized that we're all kids. None of us were in control of it. But I didn't want it to end. But the vote was yes. And I remember walking into a meeting where one guy said,

we've got 250,000 Easter eggs with your faces on them. what are we going to do? I was like, I don't know. Like, it almost, it was almost comical. What, I haven't got an answer. Yes. As to what you're going to do with 250,000. But I can imagine, because if I'm on the receiving end now,

and I've put all my money into this group and they can't get their act together, and I've invested all this money and Easter's on the way. Then, but how does the group go on this demise so quickly? Because so I understand the pressure being placed. I understand that the agents are not. consistent. I understand all of those aspects, but at the same time, it was like, it was consistent hits. The debut album reached number one and sold over a million copies. So you were red hot. The group was red hot. How does it fall off so quickly? I think we just didn't have anyone who

was solidifying us as a group. So at the time, it's the same old story, but it was major mismanagement. Because as a mum now, I know that you have to rally the troops. Yes. And if you've got people going off

in different directions, as a mom, someone's got to bring you all back together and go, right, this is what we're doing. This is when we're doing it. What does the group need? You're only as strong

as the weakest performer person, personality, whatever's going on there with that person and in that moment you carry them. And when I look back at what was going on, we were not a solid unit and we were not being encouraged to be either. So if there was a cheeky booking here

and there was a shoot here, well, if I'm the manager and I'm like, well, let's bring in the money. I'd just send everyone out on one of these separate gigs. And in so doing, you then caused division in the ranks. I see. Everyone had come from humble beginnings, not one person in that band. had some privileged upbringing.

And so that that was taken advantage of. And rather than seeing the power of the group, we were divided. I see. Can you disclose how much you made during that period? It's not a patron one I make now because it was split between five, the band, then it was split with the manager six, then it was split with the record company, seven, then it was split with the TV company, eight.

Then you bring in tax. I mean, all those people that were trying to take advantage of us. They did it with our time and our image, and they obviously took their cut. But we weren't making the amount of money that people think we were. I mean, we've just talked about a lot of challenging moments, right, in that 18 months. But I would imagine there were some incredible moments. Oh, do you? We sang with Simon-O-Whorne.

See, Wanda. We sang with Lionel Richie. Did you? We sang with Lionel Richie. Oh, my gosh. He walked out on stage. and one of us cried and one of us, we were just, I was just,

it's like, I played the piano for Shaka Khan. It's like, you know, all the things you dream of doing and then you're doing them. Yes. It's just magical. And that's what makes it worth it. What was the most?

I mean, performing with Linal Ritchie playing for Shaka Khan. I mean, those are up there. Was there anything that you think, this is like, this is what I will tell my grandchild. children, this moment. Okay, so the very first concert that I ever went to was my own and it was at Wembley.

So when I said, hello, Wembley, I couldn't even get the words out because it was just magic. And if you want to hear the full unfiltered stories from today's guest, you can check them out on the We Need to Talk page. Drop a like, leave a comment, and hit subscribe. See you next week.