We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - "They Said She'd Never Walk, Talk or Go to University” How Ellie Goldstein Proved Everyone Wrong

Episode Date: March 19, 2026

To mark World Down’s Syndrome Day Ellie Goldstein shares her journey from overcoming a challenging start in life to becoming a model, dancer and global trailblazer. From the glitz of Strictly Come Dancing to gracing the cover of Vogue, Ellie opens up about resilience, breaking barriers in the fashion world, and being unapologetically herself. This conversation is a celebration of defying expectations and embracing identity. We're Talking Life Beyond Down's Syndrome Sponsored by: Saily - Download from the app store and use code WNTT at checkout for 15% off. For more details: https://saily.com/wntt ⛵ (00:00) Intro (00:40) What Was Ellie’s Favourite Part About Being on Strictly? (02:34) How Ellie Started Out Modelling (03:46) Paul Lists the Brands Ellie Has Modelled For (04:33) Ellie’s Vogue Cover (07:46) Ellie’s Foray Into Being an Author (10:13) Saily Ad (11:25) Yvonne Shares the Story of Ellie’s Birth (20:01) Statistics Around Down's Syndrome (23:22) How Yvonne Told Ellie About Her Condition (24:37) What Yvonne and Ellie Appreciate About Each Other Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at Windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last, ends June 30th, turns at AKA.m.m.S. College PC. Welcome to We're Talking. In honor of World Down Syndrome Day, we're joined by Ellie Goldstein, model, dancer, and trailblazer, as she shares her journey from a challenging start in life to the strictly ballroom and the cover of Vogue.

This episode is about resilience, representation, and rewriting expectations, because Ellie isn't defined by a diagnosis. She's defined by who she is, unapologetically herself. So can we start with Strickley? Can we start with dancing? Yes. Let's start with this. What did you love the most about Strickley? And I think I could guess, but what did you love the most?

So I'd say that love is space tennis. Every Friday you get Spade Tannis and it's so, so chilling. calming. And the way I do it is so cool. It's spay on it and so clever. It's great. Oh my gosh. I didn't know you would say that. Spray tans. And how to make up? Okay. Of course. The other characters I was in the live show. What else? I'm in my best life. Be too, oh, I look the best guy in the world. So many people are going to say this is an ignorant question, but only because I've never used this. Tell me about a spray tan real quick.

Do you, because do you sleep in a spray tan? Yeah. You do? It doesn't rub off? So I'm going to be with the Express Dark Tan. Express Dark Tan? Yes. There you go.

Does everyone on Strictly get a spray tan? Not ever. Most. Amber had a tan. Then Alex had it. LaFraud had it. Obviously I had it. Ben, we used to get like a...

He's so high-dieners. And he looked on the schedule every guy to see who's having the top. And that's confident. They were like keeping up outside. Did anyone on Strictly get more tens than you? No. Yeah. LeFour has about three.

I had it every week. I had it about week one up until. Oh no, Halloween week they didn't do it. No, week four. Yeah, because it's Halloween week. Yeah, you didn't need it. All right, fair, fair. So with modelling, here's where I love

the begin is Zebedee. Zebedee management. So this, from what I understand, is an agency committed to representing models with disabilities and alternative appearances. Yes. Yes. So Ellie was there, literally their first client and she's still with them. Really? I am. Oh my goodness. Yeah. We've got a very amazing relationship with their two girls who run it. Zoe and Laura and all the staff. The day that Ellie first went for that very first shoot,

They said, you know, she's got such potential, her personality in her character, and they just knew and they believed in her. Because we'd sort of gone to other agencies previous, sent pictures, and he saw a few people, but we never heard back. Interesting. Yeah, like, wonder why. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. And so, yeah, when they, we heard that they were opening and we were obviously, I was on the phone to get her to have a switch.

Get me to agent. Yes. And it all went from there. It did. You've modeled for Glamour magazine. Yes. Sports Direct. Yeah.

Avon. Amazon, Primark. Marie Claire, Body Shop, Boots, Spotify. Oh, my God. All of these. Tourist secrets. Yeah. Got to be in...

Yeah, we went to Barcelona. We went to Berlin, your Barcelona this year for Schwarzkow. Frisco. That was just before Strictly, we were in Barcelona. But this is... I think that this needs just a, you know, a space of, you are a bona fide, international... Yeah.

It's done eight magazine covers, I think. Eight... Eight magazine covers? Yeah. We have all these moments that are happening in your modeling career. Now, there's one in particular that seems to be perhaps the most, I think, talked about, at least publicly. Okay. And that is this.

You could probably guess. Yeah. No, what do you think? I do, yes. Oh, no. What else? What else? Most, I think, I believe this is most talked about.

You tell me what you think. Oh, God. Ellie. Ellie literally, oh, Vogue. Oh, yeah, that little cover that I did up from Vogue. Okay. So, this moment must have been a major moment for you both. Here you are on the cover of Vogue.

This was always, you said, a dream of yours. A dream, yes. So now when you look back and you think about, this moment. How does it feel? I don't know. Well, not awkward. No.

Fun, not as much. I don't remember. He's a bit surreal. I guess it could it. Yes. Yeah, surreal. It is. Definitely surreal.

And then Yvonne, how does it feel for you to see your daughter who you helped get into an agency at 16? Then cover folk. Yeah. Again, like,

The shoot was lovely. We weren't told at all that she might make her cover. And then to be told that she's made the cover, we were both screaming. Well, at first, well, when my mum had a call. We were in a taxi, weren't we? Coming home from another shoot. So this is 2023. Yeah.

Ah, okay. Yeah, it's 2020. Yeah, so every year something amazing happens. It just seems to get better. Best best thing is, please, it's strictly. No. No. Forget bug.

Forget that. No. But this all built up to where you are now. Yeah, I know, but Baker was great. Nanny was wonderful. She's a big show. But to me, I'm like, no, it's not a big show. He's full of fun of games.

But any just seems to handle what it was thrown at her. Yes. Yeah. It's almost like. it's not a shock to you, you know. And I think that when people are walking in their excellence, it's typically not a big shock. But all of this from her career, like, whatever she's done, it's never changed Ellie as a person. She's Ellie.

She's never changed. Oh, I'm me. Which is amazing, you know, it hasn't changed the way she thinks. I mean, she's grown, obviously. and I think Strictly as well Yeah Made you a better person And you had so many interviews

And you know She just got better and better At talking to people And you know She grew as a person in that way But yes Yes It's never changed her

Her So this is interesting You're really becoming What's called a multi hyphenate Right so you're a dancer Do you sing as well? Yeah No

I see it Mom say you can sing. I say it to the band songs. Oh, Straitly. I don't think I can, but I think there's a band song at home. And I think it's good. Okay, so you think it's good. Okay, so you're definitely a dancer.

Yes. You're a model. You're an actress. You're also an author. Oh, yes. Author. You do so many things. You don't even know.

You're an author. But so, yeah, how did these, the idea for the books? Where did that come from? Shall I say? Yes. So Ellie was on loose women a couple of years ago. And just after that a few days, I had a voice message from Katie Piper saying, have you ever thought of Ellie writing a book? I was like, no.

So things happened pretty quickly. She put us in touch with her publishers. And we had meetings. and it just all sort of happened quite quickly. So Ellie had a ghostwriter. Glowing a window. And it took a good year or so, I think. But every week or so, a couple of hours,

she would just chat her life to the ghost writer. And then obviously there's my introduction about her life at the start. And then then everything. And then they involved some past primary school teachers, Ellie's dance teacher, Amy, Ellie's sister, Amy. So it's written from all different perspectives. Yes. And, yeah, it's a fully book.

And then a year after that, they come back to us and said, how about us or Ellie doing a kid's book from her debut book, just to show, you know, that other kids that you can. achieve whatever you want in life. And it's just a very fun, colorful book. It's incredible. Do you believe that, Ellie, you'll do more books? Yes. Yeah?

Yeah, it was really on it. It's always like a good. Yeah, she's quite good at her. She's got a good imagination. Can anyone tell me why roaming fees are always so expensive? I feel like every time I get back from traveling overseas, I'm hit with a jaw-dropping phone bill. It's actually why I'm excited to try our new partner, Saley, an ESIM app that gives you a safe and secure data connection anytime you travel, and, most importantly, without any expensive roaming charges.

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Yeah. Right. From birth, early years. Yeah. I would love, could we? Could we talk about that? Yes, go on. You were born, Ellie, in Essex, correct?

So born, raised, currently live in Essex. So I was 30A. During the pregnancy, I was fine. I had my usual scans and everything. And it was about two weeks or so before her due date and something didn't feel right. Went for another scan and she was literally stuck across my stomach. I see.

So they decided you need a cesarean. Had a cesarean, that all seemed to go fine. They never bought her over to me straight away. She came out and the glimpse I saw of her. She was completely purple. The cord was right around her neck. What cord? The cord.

The collared cord. I don't know. Billicle cord. Yeah. Green or red? I don't know. So they took her away and they sorted her. That was all fine.

Yeah. Still hadn't fought her over to us. I was like, where is she? Is she okay? I said, there's a problem. What? But no one would talk to us. They got me ready after surgery.

Took us to a side room. then bought Ellie in and the midwife said we think she's got a down syndrome we're not sure I said well what's that supposed to mean I was a bit out of it from the cesarian and I said oh someone will come to talk to

do not feed her don't do anything she was screaming for a bottle I'm so girsty I'm like giving the bottle look I did but this is very interesting to me so you had you were brought to a side room

Yeah. They brought Ellie in for the first time. Yeah. So you were able to see her in colour, which that is such an important moment. Yeah, of course. For a while. You know, we kept asking, where is she? And you don't get answers.

Four hours went past. Four hours. Four hours. Four hours before anyone came back to see us. It's long. And so clearly she's crying throughout this. She's hungry. Thursday.

Thursday. I think obviously Sam must have popped their head in, but no one. team or anyone had come to us. My mum was outside. They wouldn't let her in the room. It was all really... Why not? Why not? I don't know. It was very odd. Everything, but you're thinking the worst, obviously.

Then a team of seven people came in. Doctors. Nurses. He scooped her out of the cot, held her in the air like this, and a little nappy. Oh. This is Ellie. She's got Down syndrome. She would never...

walk, talk or go to university. University's just been born. My husband's like, what do we do? What we meant to do? And the doctor said, there's some leaflets on a stand outside. Just grab one of them. And then they disappeared. And I remember a nurse stayed behind and said,

I'm really sorry about how that was handled. I'll get someone in to see you. So she went. And I said, can I feed her? And I were like, well, she needs checking. She probably won't be able to drink. Well, I said, right, this is enough. And we gave her a bottle and she was fine.

Yay! And this other lady came in, a nurse, rather, and said, you're okay, you're okay? Looked at Ellie. Said, oh, the last mother who had one of these, left it here. Do you want to do that? No. I'm even saying that now, I was like, no.

Really like, it's very good. When I talk about it, it's like yesterday. But I'm fine. I'm fine. Like this vanity. No, I'm not. Make you know. It was.

It's like reliving, you know. What are you talking about? Right. Because not. This idea that this life is so trivial. Yeah. And it's just, oh, you just, just, just leave her here. Yeah.

Can you imagine? It's all very. It was, you know what, what I, and this is, this is 2001. Yeah. So what, what is so. shocking to me is it seems like there was this prevailing thought that, oh, you're just going to leave her. Yeah. They were wondering why you were even considering her. Yeah. Yeah. It was just bizarre. And I ask also, Yvonne, that evening, you're alone now with your daughter.

Hello. And you have, yeah, and you have all of these medical professionals telling you basically leave her. Yeah. What's going on in your mind in that moment? Or the way they were talking and about her heart and they were waiting for other things to happen and maybe stomach conditions. And I just thought I couldn't bond. I was nervous to get too attached because I just thought she was going to die. That was my... Die or thought.

Just what they were saying. There was like so many... Oh. Issues and they just wrote her off and I was just nervous of this little baby. Yes. Well, they're little, it's me. It's a tiny little thing. They're like this.

Six pounds. Six pounds, yeah. Oh, cute. Yeah, you were. You're a little Ellie. Cute. Yeah. You didn't bring myself to tell my mum.

And when I did, my mum straight from the off was like, oh, you know, she's fine. There's nothing wrong with that child. And Mama had that attitude through the whole of Ellie's life. You know, she's fine. There's nothing wrong with her. How important was that to you to have your mother react that way? Yeah, I was just, I was shocked, but obviously happy that she didn't see anything wrong with Ellie. Nothing.

And went into Great Almond Street and they sat us down. and then they started to tell us the real problems with her heart. So I felt, again, people have lied to me or just, it was just, oh my God, it wasn't just holes. She had a valve missing, so I had to rebuild a valve. Oh, okay. Her heart was just in a complete mess, basically. So from birth to the op, she'd only put on, she was still like only seven pounds

because of her way she was breathing. Like you couldn't maybe, what, get enough oxygen? Yeah, yeah. Was that procedure at five months? Was that a, that was a life-threatening? She had open-heart surgery. She had open-heart surgery. So she was put on bypass.

It was an 11-hour operation. Goodness. Wow. Tiny little thing. And I remember my husband and I, we had to, I said, go away and come back in nine hours or whatever. We just walked around the whole of London, but we did not talk aware to each other.

Oh, so peculiar. Oh, my God. We must have walked miles, a mile, a mile. We're not happy with her ox. She's stapled up in there. We didn't even know about until a couple of years ago when we went to an airport and she bibbed. And then I said, we're on her next scan.

You know, why does she always bib? And I went, oh, she's got staples. No one told me. That's eaten. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough.

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you're a multi-high feet You're a model, actress, singer, dancer. And you have staples. You've got it all. And strictly. And strictly. Strictly. So when you think back to what was happening, to me it speaks to changes that need to be made.

Because I would imagine this could be happening today. Yeah. I've still heard a few stories from hospitals. Like people that have had children with dancing jam and it hasn't been handled that well. I haven't heard lots, but whether it's changed or not, I don't know. You don't know. So this is something that I think we should spend a moment on because the prevalence of Down syndrome, I believe it's one out of every 800 births.

You have a child being born with Down syndrome. We have 6 million people in the world with Down syndrome. So this is prevalent. We need to talk about it, especially to new parents. Yeah. What would you have liked to have been told to you and said? And how would you like to have been supported when you were giving birth to Ellen? Probably after the birth and they knew, you know, she had Down syndrome.

Just some people just to sit with you in your room or wherever you are and talk you through it, not just say there's some leaflets and just leave you. not knowing anything. So just more education on the subject. Yeah, and once we came home, someone to come around and visit and how are you? How's she doing? Talk us through things and plan.

Well, you know, we never really planned for the future. We always took initially a day at a time, then we extended it to a week at a time, months and now. That's how we just dealt with it ourselves. Was it, were you dealing with it a day at a time because you didn't know how much time you'd have with? Yeah, yeah, initially, initially, especially after that huge operation.

And they said this will be the first of many because the heart, you know, we've had to do so much work to it. As she grows, things will change. And, you know, she's going to have re-ops and do-da-da-da-da. But luckily, that never happened. I mean, she goes every year. for checkups. They encouraged the exercise and diets.

Oh, interesting. Some sound dance is important. That's important. Yeah, I mean, I was a little bit concerned with this level of dance. But it was, you know, we discussed it and it was obviously fine. She's done amazing. She's strong. Very, very, very strong.

Also, I think your level of resilience, you know, one thing that I'm definitely picking up on you is that, You know, resilience is our ability to, when we're confronted with something tough, to have belief that we can get back up if we're pushed down. And you have that belief. Many people do not have that belief at all. And when I was doing my research coming in, I was, you know, trying to learn as much as I could about Down syndrome. And one thing I've seen in terms of characteristics is many people with Down syndrome have very high levels

of resilience. I would imagine part of it is because of what you were told when Ellie was little. That is, oh, she's never really going to him out to anything. She won't be able to walk. She was like, when I changed as a person and the fight came in me.

But, yeah. Or like, you know, phasing people. No, like, just I'll prove everyone wrong. Because eventually, after her arc and when things settled, we just said to each other, we're going to just bring Eli. Yep.

As we did Amy, we just need to get on with our life. Mm-hmm. That's what we did. Didn't bring her up with Ellie's got a condition or Ellie's, you know, she got to, I think, secondary school and we still hadn't actually told Ellie. And they said, does she actually know what she's her condition? I was like, no, we don't know what to do. Okay.

because no one along the way had ever bothered to talk to us about how to tell her or family and Ellie was like a complete bookworm The school said you know Ellie loves reading and books

Why don't you do it through a book Which we did So we got a book about Children with Down syndrome Oh yeah Showed Ellie Look through it I said this is

You know Do you see yourself And then should we look through the book I explained it all to Ellie. She got up. Shut the book. Got up. Went straight to a mirror and said,

I'm perfect. Don't do that? You still say it. And it was like, fine, let's move on. Yeah. That's how she dealt with it. Do you feel any responsibility or any importance?

Are you just going doing you? Be me. Yeah. I just wrapped up a tour. I've been touring around the UK. There's a question that I ask on this tour that I find to be so interesting. So I'm going to end with this.

What is one thing that you appreciate about each other that you have never said? So one thing you appreciate about your mother that you've never told her, and you appreciate about Ellie, that you have never told her. Who wants to go first? You.

I just appreciate Elliot's a hole A hole A hole Eleanor Spring just slid into your DMs Grab that boho look for that rooftop dinner Those sandals that can keep up with you

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Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com. Person, as a daughter. Yeah, carry on. I think she does, everything she's achieved. Okay.

For me, I never say to her about how, they're going to be awkward, but I've got, my mum is impressive in me. I hear it. Yeah, that's it. I hear it. Like, how life is always in a fair way, now, now. I tell you what, a mom that, she picks up your dirty clothes. She brings you food and she applies pressure

and she always says now that sounds like a great mom Yeah, no Yeah, a high five That sounds like a great mom And if you want to hear the full unfiltered stories from today's guest

You can check them out on the We Need to Talk page Drop a like, leave a comment and hit subscribe See you next week