We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Tom Read Wilson Finally Tells His Story: “It Was A Constant Barrage Of Verbal Abuse”

Episode Date: June 2, 2026

Tom Read Wilson reflects on life after I’m A Celebrity and the private story behind the voice, warmth and eccentricity that made the nation fall in love with him. He opens up about growing up feeling othered, the secret that once felt like a ticking time bomb, and the anxiety that affected his relationship with food for many years. Tom also reflects on coming out, the sister who became his safe place, and why the jungle helped him lose his ego and feel truly seen. In a conversation shaped by nearly nine years of friendship, Paul and Tom look back on Celebs Go Dating, the moments that brought them close, and the bond that has quietly become one of the most important relationships in both of their lives. Funny, tender and unexpected, this is Tom Read Wilson on queerness, friendship, family, self-acceptance and learning to celebrate the parts of yourself the world once made you question. Tom Read Wilson, We Need To Talk A heads up this conversation includes discussion of mental health and eating disorders. We’ve included links to support resources below: CALM: https://linkly.link/2dx8H   MIND:  https://linkly.link/2dx8b   Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk   https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod   Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Follow Tom here: https://www.instagram.com/tomreadwilson (00:00) Intro (05:55) Tom’s Upbringing (07:25) Becoming Aware of Prejudice (08:51) Tom’s Identity in His Teens (16:18) How Tom Came Out (18:31) Paul Shows Tom a Photo of Him and His Siblings (23:46) Tom’s Struggle With Eating (30:43) Tom’s Career as an Actor (34:51) Tom Appearance on The Voice (40:57) Accusations About Tom’s Voice (45:51) Cast on Celebs Go Dating (48:41) Which Celebrities Stood Out to Tom on CGD? (51:08) Paul Shows Tom a Photo of Him and Gemma Collins (53:21) Paul’s Appreciation For Tom (55:57) Tom on His Romantic Life (58:00) Tom Has Made Paul Officially ‘Naughty’ (01:01:11) Why Tom Went on I’m a Celebrity (01:02:59) What Is the Environment Really Like on I’m a Celebrity? (01:04:33) What Tom Loved Most About I’m a Celebrity (01:08:46) Who Did Tom Get on With Most on I’m a Celebrity? (01:17:06) Tom’s Final Bushtucker Trial (01:23:18) Surprise Letter From Campmate Ruby Wax (01:26:20) Tom’s Relationship With Paul’s Family (01:28:11) Tom’s Talent for Accents (01:37:26) Paul’s Takeaways Sponsored by: iD Mobile: Ditch the texts and ‘Make it a Call’ - your voice is more powerful than you thinkhttps://www.idmobile.co.uk/make-it-a-call?affiliate=marketing%7CYouTube_Display%7CMakeItACall_Brand&utm_source=YouTube&utm_medium=Display&utm_campaign=MakeItACall&utm_content=Brand Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And I think I did have a crush. But actually, everything shifted for me because I am sort of rubbing along so happily as a single person. Tom, Reed, Wilson. Electrified. The number one question about you was, is he acting? Is he for real? Believe it or not, little Tom was much the same as Big Tom. And there was a lot of bullying, but what that makes you do is you think, well, the only way I can survive is to celebrate it. I want to show you a photo.

I have seen this for a very long time. Goodness knows where you laid your mitts on it. I did not know. There was a challenge with you eating during that time. I was just so tightly wound. I'd just sit down to eat and I'd realize that my body wasn't going to let me do it. But I secretly auditioned for the voice.

And it was a direct consequence of that that celebs go dating came along and then the jungle. I've noticed it with celebs go dating. We can just empty our souls to each other. Empty our souls. Empty our souls. empty our soes. It's time for you to leave already.

You know, what time is it? But can I talk about my biggest gripe with celebs go dating? And do. My biggest gripe is... Oh my goodness me. Hey there. Before we begin the episode, I just want to say, thank you for choosing we need to talk.

Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life. And I want to continue to share it with you. So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second, and it helps us to continue. to grow this podcast. You know when we met and we went out into Brixton together and that first lady buttonholed you in the park and said,

I have to talk to you about your podcast because it's changed my life. And then we left the park and you were buttonholed again by somebody who said, I can't believe this. You're in my ear here and in my retina there. Yes. Yes. And I thought, oh, for heaven's sake, this is either side of the bar. I think it's a boon. It is, it's surreal. It's surreal. It is surreal what has happened here. But I've begun to understand why we have had the most phenomenal guests.

Yes. on who have not told their story, especially since I'm a celebrity, have you sat down to do a long-form interview? No, no. No, and I don't really, you know, a disbosoming. I do overuse that word, I have to say, but it's just such a good word. It is, it is, and no one else uses it. No, and, you know, people automatically know what it means that it's sort of getting things off

your bosom or your chest. But it's just a delicious word. It is. It is. It is. You know, so on that, though, of not being in a position where you have disbosomed before. I mean this is a compliment, but it sounds smutty when you say it. Really?

Wait, you say it. When you say it. Disbosomed? Yeah. I think it's something about your basso-profundo, darling. It just sort of makes me oscillate a bit. Oh, okay. I'll try to refrain.

Here we go. I'm saying, yeah, you started this. I know. I know. And I told you, I made a solemn pledge on the way here. No smut. It was a pure smut embargo. And you broke it the moment you walked into the studio.

It's blown on a zephyr into the blue mountains, never to return. Never. Farewell, smut embargo. There you go. There you go. Somebody on your lovely team just asked, when did we meet? And, and... you were saying it's just nudging nine years ago.

Yes. And I remember it. It is indelibly seared on my mental retina because I remember when you came down those stairs into the bows of that restaurant. Yes. And we had that first sort of pre-filming supper together to get to know each other a bit.

And what I can't forget is you have something that I've always aspired to have, which is a kind of a corkscrew gaze, I call it, when you look beyond my countenance into my very soul. And it is a very disarming thing, but it's also a deeply flattering thing because you instantly feel like you matter beyond all possible measure.

You know, it's really an eye can count on the fingers of one hand, the number of people I've met that can do that. Well, well. You know, this is precisely what you do. No, no, no. It is. It is. It is.

It is. You know, I think we have to set a few rules here. Yes. Okay. Okay. Yes. I think it's important for us to do some rules. Okay.

You know, I think the rule, if you agree with this. Yes. I think one rule is that if you are complimented, Tom Reed Wilson, you must sit with it. All right. But is that two ways to be? No. Because it's not your podcast. So you can't do it.

Oh my goodness me. But you have to sit with it. I'm not saying that you have to agree with it. Okay. But you have to allow it to sit and percolate for just a moment. All right. I'll do it. Can we go back?

Yes. And look at Little Tom. Little Tom. Little TV. And believe it or not, most extraordinarily, little Tom was much the same as Big Tom. No way. Which is sort of, I mean, it must have been very precocious. It must have been awful.

My parents met in rural Berkshire in a school called Bradfield College. Okay. And my mum was wonderful actor. And then my dad, who was wonderful actor. My dad, who was one of the youngest teachers, caught her eye. And they sort of had a passionate love affair, and I was the product. Look at that. I suppose when I was about five, my parents, things were getting a little bit sort of dicey in the marital unit.

So they decided to go to the other really big school in the area, which was Pangborn College. Okay. Which is a nautical college. Although it wasn't officially in Norsego College when I went, oh, I'm fast-forwarding now, but we lived there. And so they thought it was probably logical that I should go there. And, you know, I had a slightly dicey relationship with it because, you know, I had to polish cannons every day and March. It's where I became keenly aware of prejudice. and the juncture at which I did too.

Interesting. And I think this is the fact that both of us feel that prejudice is anathema to us. I think it arrived at about the same age because I know that your young life in Jamaica, Queens, you know, it was sort of, it was vibrant and there was Rundee MC and VP records and all the stuff you've told.

me about and then you went to Sarah Carbara and suddenly you were keenly aware of prejudice. And I was about the same age when I became very, very aware and my antenna, I shot up because it was very difficult in a nautical college to be androgynous and as I was, which is as I am. Yes, yes. So this was, this must have been early teens. Yes. Okay. Yes, it was.

So yes, so same period for me. Yes. At early teens, we're beginning to really think about our identity. Yes. So early teens, you were in a nautical college. I was. I was. And actually, to answer your question, that identity was very organic, but it was a very curious journey to it.

And I suppose it was the intersection and the cocktail of influences, which were very curious for a boy of my age. Okay, which were? Which were my dad who he couldn't, he just, it wasn't in him to talk down to children. You had to sort of try and rise to his heady heights. But what he did do, which I thought was lovely with us, was that, um, if he did stumble upon an etymological fascination, for example, then he would try very quickly to catch up with himself and make it into a story. So, you know, if we were in the park and we saw a squirrel,

he'd say, ah, squirrel, skia aura, the Greek of shadowy tail. But then he would say, because that feather-boa tail dances in the light and makes these nebulous shadows. And so then there was a little story for us to cleave to. And I loved it. I absolutely loved it. And it's the rabbit hole I've never climbed out of. Yes, yes.

I didn't realize that your love for etymology came from your father. Oh, yes. Oh, absolutely. And then coupled with that, he does to this day, what I call a sort of dance of the synonym. So we recently had lunch and he said, oh, sunny Jim, that was lovely, but all too brief, short-lived, dephemeral, fleeting. And it's like, and it's what I feel about words. It's, I'm just going to chew and chew and chew until I find the one that satisfies those sort of untapped pockets of my mouth.

You know, it's very, it's almost sensual. It's not intellectual at all. It's a very physical thrill. It's interesting. To me, it feels like you grew up very much as an adult. Yes. With the exception of, and I suppose this feeds into the other element, my sort of my androgyny and my taste.

Okay. Because romantically, sexually, I was very, very green. And I had no context for my sexual identity. I remember vividly being aroused watching the gladiators when I was about five. Okay. And I didn't know what it was. I didn't know it was arousal. I just knew it was sort of a nice feeling in my home entertainment centre.

You know, and I had. And I sort of thought, oh, I'd like that feeling again. But it was years and years before I had any context for it. And then what happened was, I think, by musicals actually, funny enough. And here were these sort of wonderfully dynamic, zestful, strong women. And I loved all of those elements of them. But they were also the recipient of rather delicious men's effect. And I, because I had no queer frame of reference at all in my life or in media,

I always imagined being them. And I mean, I must have watched brief encounter with divine Celia Johnson 13 times, at least before I was 13. Before you were 13? And I mean, it was a bizarre frame of reference for a little boy. 13 year old is ever watch. No, no. I would get lost. I'd get utterly lost.

I'd forget I had a corporeal being. I'd just be completely in it. I think we view identity differently as a child than we do as an adult. But it's in that adolescence period all the way through to early adulthood that we're struggling with who do we believe we are. Who do we believe we are? Yes. That's very true. And the word actually that's in that group along with identity and individuality,

which I adore, adore, but it's only really used disparagingly, is eccentric. Okay. Because I'm often described as eccentric, and I love the word. And I love its etymology because it comes from the Greek eckentron out of the center, or away from the centre. And I think one silver lining of being at a difficult school where, you know, there was a lot of bullying and it was uncomfortable.

But what that makes you do, I suppose, is you think, well, what must I cleave to here? because this is what seems to upset them about me. But it's arrived in me. I haven't asked for it to come. It's just sort of bubbled up in me in a sort of Vesuvian way. And I can't remove it. So therefore, you have a, and this was,

it sounds like it was an epiphany. It was a very long cottage. But you think, therefore, I need to find a way to celebrate it. It's the only way I can survive is to celebrate it. Can I ask, though, because I find this to be very interesting because you're still in your early teens at this point. Yes, yes. Okay, so at this point, what I believe many teenagers do

is they figure out how can they reduce themselves? How can they hide what makes them exceptional? How do they pull back? Opposed to let me celebrate, especially when you're met with resistance and bullying. So as much as you want to say is, can you talk about what that resistance was that you were getting, what that was?

And then also, what do you believe it was with, that allowed you to celebrate opposed to hide? Well, the resistance mostly was never violent, but it was a constant, constant barrage of verbal abuse. I was very lucky because in my immediate orbit, I had a group of friends and we were terribly close and we were all othered for one reason or another. We had strength in that little unit and it really helped us survive and something happened when I was 16 that kind of made us all politically aware at school and it was sort of hot

debate and it was the time I sort of came out really because there was a wonderful Anglican Reverend called Reverend Geoffrey John and he was nominated to be Bishop of Reading and I believe I'm right in saying this might be wrong but I believe I'm right in saying that he would have been the first gay bishop. So suddenly it wasn't just Reading news or Berkshire news. It was national news. So it was through your desire to see this human being treated as a human being. Yes.

That that inspired you to come out. Yes. And also it was a wonderful, selfishly, it was a wonderful sort of, dress rehearsal, if you like, for coming out, because I could test the water with people and see where they were politically. I see. And I found to my delight

that my parents had long divorced by then, but they were both pro the bishop. So when you reflect upon your teenage years now... Yes. How do you characterize them? very muddled, very uncomfortable, but very important because I think all the really big epiphanies about the importance of being, again, Shakespeare, to thine own self be true, of that, even when it's uncomfortable, especially when it's uncomfortable.

and the arts as my ultimate safe space. All right. I want to show you a photo. I want you to tell me not only who is in the photo, but how do you feel upon reflecting on this photo? Okay, ready? Oh, fair to see. Take a look at that.

Who is in that photo? Oh, my. That's me, and that's my sister Miranda. and my brother, Jack, he was a baby. Oh, he was, I still think he was the cutest baby who's ever lived. Yeah, Jack is a good-looking guy. He's a handsome chap. Yeah, but I think Miranda is beautiful.

Yes. And big, big brother there is not too bad. He's not too bad. See, you accepted it. Thank you. I did, didn't I? That was very well executed. Well executed.

So how does it feel looking back at that photo now? Well, that's quite amazing, actually. I have seen this for a very long time. Goodness knows where you laid your mitts on it. But I remember that time so well because we were so excited. I mean, we thought he was our baby. Yes. We absolutely thought he was our baby.

Miranda and I because, you know, we've been rubbing along as a pair for such a long time because there was such a tiny age gap when Jack came along and oh my God, we just delighted in him. I think there's something that we have

in common in our family is that we're all outwardly quite sunny and I think that there's a commonality in people that have sunny dispositions. Sometimes they run towards the light because they need to run towards the light. And I have always felt that I've got it like right here in the solar plexus,

almost like an onyx or obsidian jewel that is quite melancholic and threatens to doubling in size or quadrupling size even sometimes. And my whole family are like that. And we've seen it where, you know, it does quadruple in size and it can't be controlled anymore. And so I think that we have a very nuanced understanding of, of, you know, mental health. And I think therefore we're very,

very sympathetic to each other, but also very celebratory of each other, wherever you are on the graph, you know. Yes. And it's, they're my sine qua nons, really. Yeah, I can see it. Hold on to that, but I'll give that to you. Yes.

I'll give that to you. Oh, thank you, darling. Yes, I'm going to frame this because I didn't actually have this photo. Oh, yeah, but I'm going to give you. it right back to you. Let me put it right here so it doesn't. I'm curious with your brother and sister, Jack and Miranda, because they were this refuge for you, when you were facing the harder times bullying at school, did you share that with them? Yes, especially, well, Jack was so much

younger that he was. We, at my dad's house, we all chose to share a room. So we had our own rooms, but we all decided that there were bunk beds and then we put a third bed in so that we could just whitter away like magpies and we really do. You really loved each other. You really loved each other. And my brother was on the top bunk and he would be asleep because he was so much younger. And then my sister was on the lower bunk. And speaking of disbosming, I mean, And I really, I, I, I, I, I, half regret it now because it was a lot to put on Miranda. Because I did all my disbosoming with her. I, very often I couldn't eat.

And so she was trying to grapple with that too, you know, to, I mean, she basically was just a tremendous listener. And it was sort of, uh, um, The talking cure, I was just sharing everything, really. And she wasn't steering me, but she was just this wonderfully altruistic, sympathetic ear. You know, what she was doing, how you describe it, is she was holding space for you. Yes. Because it sounds like she did necessarily have the end. answers for you.

No. But she made you feel safe, seen, and heard. Yes. And you knew that she was always there for you. Yes. That's the premise of holding space. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's what she does so remarkably for her boys. And actually my great loves, and you're included in that, do that with their children. One more. and then we move on from this place is I did not know this is my first time hearing this

that you there was a challenge with you eating during that time yes I think I was like I was a knot really you know I was just sort of so so so tightly wound and so sometimes

um uh I would struggle with that. You know, I'd struggle with the simplest things. Also, food has always been my sort of greatest source of pleasure. You know, I don't have very much, there's not very much tussling of the Idawn, sadly. And so like those kind of lovely hedonistic pleasures.

Yes. I don't see very much. So food has always been just this sort of utter joy. And I think there's this terrible voice, like little demonic voice in my head that says, oh, you know, things aren't right and you're a bit of a shaky craft at the moment. You haven't even got a sail up.

And what if one of these things that you love were also denied you? or what if that keenly felt anxiety prevented you doing it and enjoying it. And so that's what would periodically happen, I think, is that I then just couldn't eat. I couldn't eat. I longed to eat. But you couldn't eat?

But I couldn't eat. How long would you go without eating? It would be, it would take me by surprise. So it wouldn't happen all the time. But sometimes I'd think, I'd just sit down to eat and I'd realize that my body wasn't going to let me do it. And so, and again, Miranda was really my only confidant, you know, and it lasted a very long time. It lasted about, probably about four years to the point that I thought, this will never go away. Wow.

I just have to live with this. Oh, my goodness. What happened in your life to overcome that? Do you know, I'd never thought about it because I was very fortunate insofar as it melted away. And... How old were you? I think I was about 10 when it started, and I think I was about 14 when it started. and I think I was about 14 when it sort of stopped.

And actually, I don't know whether there is interconnectivity. But looking back now, I started my coming out process at 14 and then finished around 16. Okay. And I wonder whether the knot of having a secret that I knew was a time bomb and had to be shared. Yes. So it was just sort of like being at base camp of Kilimanjaro

and looking up and thinking, I have to get to the top. But gosh, what a lot of effort and along the way. Yes. Where are my crampons? you know so perhaps perhaps they were connected I don't know

yeah perhaps I'm Adam and I want my dad Tom Ash to call me Welcome to ID Mobile Please leave your message after the tone Dad I'm looking at some of our texts and

They're really funny I texted you in January that I'm going to South Africa and you said I think what you mean by the thumbs up emoji at least

I hope that's what you mean by the thumbs up emoji is something like I understand and I hear you I feel like if you called me you could read me a little bit better and maybe you could understand the emotions

that I'm going through in any given moment you like to think that you're a pretty funny guy, right? I know I roll my eyes at your dad jokes all the time, but I still like to hear them. So call me and you know, tell me your dad jokes.

I'm a dad who sends text messages to his sons and I'm ashamed to admit this but I don't recall the last time I called them. As a dad, have you

sent a thumbs up emoji in the past you. Please don't be disappointed in it. And why would that be? It's trying to speak from an emotional standpoint without using words, because that's an emoji. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that sounds like you're trying to cop out. Yeah, no, it is for sure.

I mean, you have truly impacted how I will proceed. with my boys. I'm calling. And I'm sure that, you know, as your relationship progresses with them, they would appreciate it as well. We're in partnership with ID Mobile and Mental Health UK.

We want you to ditch the text and make it a call. And now, because of my conversation with Adam, that's going to include me. So at 21, roughly, what did you consider your identity to be? That was the beginning. I suppose that was the beginning of my attempting to be a real thespian.

Okay. Myself, which I'd always longed for. And, but I wasn't very successful. But I did work quite a lot. Okay. So 21, though, your desire was what? What was the dream? I suppose.

I really wanted to sort of be on Broadway clutching a Tony. Okay. The award. See, I knew it. Fregnant pause. Yes. It was very dramatic. That was perfect.

But now as a struggling, impoverished, Thespian. Yes. You must have had some wild jobs. Oh, I did. What were some of those? I seemed always to be in hats. Exactly. Because I played the Mad Hatter, and then I did a national tour of the cat in the hat, which I loved.

Okay. The first show I did after the Royal Academy of Music was a new musical version of Sleeping Beauty. And I was essentially Maleficent, but I was called Fireina in the play. Okay. And I always did a word of the day with the company, which is why I ended up doing it. That's the beginning. That was the beginning. always did it every time I was in a theater company.

Okay. And my prince, who's a friend to this day, a very naughty boy called Matt Nolton. He's one of the naughtiest people I've ever known. Much naughtier than me, believe it or not. No, impossible. And much smuttier than me. And in those days, I was still really quite green,

especially where smutty vocab was concerned. again, believe it or not, but it is true. And he thought that he would match my word of the day with the lexicon of smut. Oh, interesting. And on opening night, he taught me the word buccaki. You know, I've only, as an adult, I learned about, I mean, like, when I say as an adult, like within the last maybe eight years, I've heard about this word. It suddenly reached you.

Yeah, it's new. Yes. For me. Yes. Yes. Well, it was very new to me then. And actually, I've subsequently investigated it, and it's not... It sounds awful.

You did. Did you enjoy that? I love it. I've investigated the etymology. Okay. And it's very innocuous because it comes from the Japanese verb Bukakaru, meaning to splash. And they have a dish in Japan called Bukaki that... is a noodle dish where the noodles are liberally splashed by sauce.

So it's very unfortunate for the word that it got marooned in porn here. So how does that happen? How does something like that happen? How is a... Bokoukaki? Well, it's timing done really. I think it's all timing. How is a word like that hijacked?

Because I feel like... Yes, it's awful, isn't it? It is, because you're talking about a dish. It's probably a pleasant. Yes. Because actually it could have been marooned in meteorology. We could say, gosh, that's buccarchy. Exactly.

Look at that. Coming from the skies. But how are words, they're hijacked? I don't know. Maybe it became a porn category in the east and then it jumped to the west. I don't know. Okay. So then how do all of these jobs, these odd jobs, if you will, but they're not odd,

because you're building your resume, you're building your chops. How do you go from there to the voice? Oh. Well, I suppose in a roundabout way it was because of those jobs because I was doing at the Theatre Royal Windsor, which I love, an adorable kind of cuckoo clock of a theatre. It's just enchanting. I was doing a play called Sweet Revenge.

I was getting these sort of pleasant, supporting roles. And I thought, I need to do something bold because I'm nearly 30 and I need to, I really need to think of something. And so I secretly, I don't know what made me think of it, but I secretly auditioned for the voice. And it is all very clandestine until you get on the show. You know, none of the auditions are filmed. It's all very secret. And they were so lovely to me.

I mean, it was the best first exposure to telly, I think one could possibly have because you were handled with kid gloves and so well looked after. And you were ascribed at a vocal coach that fit your style. Interesting. And given a beautiful original arrangement. But you had to audition prior to that piece, right? So even that process was your idea, I need to do this because I need, Mike, I need to move my career to another level.

Well, when I did it, it was, I think it was around the time that some of my theater heroes had done it. People like Kerry Ellis. And it really, it really helped with her theater career. Okay. So that was my thought. That's why it was that show, because that show seemed to me that it wasn't about getting a number one or anything like that, which I never could have done. You know, not that style of singing at all. So, do you know, I went back and I watched this clip and I watched it with Jill and the voice.

Oh, no, did you? It's not very good. No, no, no, no. So first, let me just set the stage for the voice because I didn't realize that the voice was at this time, this is one of the biggest reality shows in the UK. Gosh, I didn't know that. I remember them saying to me on the day, they said, oh, you know, because you flopped, I mean, they didn't say that. But because you didn't get a turn, if you're lucky, will play a bit of your song, you know. And what they actually did was they played about seven minutes of, you know, my backstory and my

backstory and my interview and my song and my exchange with the judges and it was a direct consequence of that that celebs go dating came along because Frankie Nicol, you probably remember a lovely Frankie watched it and said we want somebody that's sort of jolly hockey sticks

to serve as the welcoming committee and they didn't really know what quite how it would work but she thought, oh, well, that would fit because he's, you know, quite sunny. Sunny, yes. So can we go back to the voice? Yes, yes, you love it.

So you were on stage. Yes. And do you remember what song you were singing? Yes, it was the oldest song of the series. It was written in 1947, and it's called Accentuate and Positive. and I love that lyric is two of my favorite songs. I love for the same reason because they sort of describe my outlook. Cockeyed Optimist and Accenture the Positive.

It was a perfectly placed song. Yes. I love that song. And I thought it was a beautiful performance. And so I watched the judges. Yes. And the judges seem to be, have you rewatched a clip of this? No.

You've never watched this. No, I watched it when it came out. The judges appear to be, I mean, they're bobbing their heads, they're snapping. Boy George was going back and forth. He was doing this. I'm thinking they're all going to turn around. Oh, did you? I thought they would all turn around.

Yeah. The judges then, unfortunately or fortunately, because of how your career then, goes on. Yes. They did not turn around. No. However, when they do turn around, do you remember what they said? I remember what Will I am, said.

I think he said, which has happened to me many times. In fact, I have to have a note on my bank that I put in place with the manager because I kept not getting past the fraud team saying, has the voice of an octogenarian lady. and I think he more or less said that. He sure did. And to, because sometimes I have to act as a translator and interpreter for you, you're saying the voice of an 80-year-old woman. Yes.

Everybody at home. I mean, I've had Angela Lansbury on the radio. I've had Fenella Fielding. I've had Honour Blackman. Yes. Who actually, when I had them, I think were all non-a-generian. 80s. So 80's quite young for me.

But this is what he literally, he turns out. Yeah, he says, and he says, are you, I think one of the first things he said is, are you serious? Did he? He's like, are you for real? Is this serious? And I noticed that was the common question.

But this... Poor thing, you have it every day. I get this question all of the time. All of the time. I remember when I, when you were on, I'm a celebrity. Yes. I went on to this morning, and I also did the after show from a celebrity, in support of you. Yes.

The first question was, is he for real? Is this him? Is this his voice? Is he, you know, is he acting? Yes. How do you feel knowing that this is typically the number one question about you? Again, go back to that word eccentric. I delight in being Ek-Kentron out of the centre.

And I don't mind if I'm a moon sort of orbiting the planet in a way. I don't mind that at all. The only slight downfall, if I'm really pinning my colours to the mast, because it's you, I will, is that it's not an aphrodisiac, there's the only thing. It's like, I think that in lots of ways, it's a help because it sort of contributes to one's silhouette. But it's not romantically. Because it's very, I don't know, it's to, people don't want Angela Lansbury's voice coming out, you know, in a steamy setting. I mean, I mean, however far, but I will say this is that I truly, I'm not just saying this to say it, is that this is where I disagree with you.

Yeah. Now, I know there's lived experience. Yes, yes. But I believe that because we are all individuals, we are all extraordinary. Yes. that there will be, and there is a group of people who will just devour that. Well, that is true. I do agree with you.

It's like I think I haven't got Lake Ontario. I've got a little puddle. But the puddle are keen. Yes. It's just that, you know, it's quite hard sometimes to locate the puddle. Yes, that's true. That's the only difficulty. That's true.

You helped me, of course, once, darling. discovered how puddley the puddle is. Oh my gosh. Can I talk about that? Yes, please do. Yes. I mean, I'm not embarrassed because I know, you know, I know from life. So I think it was, I went to Instagram once, right? Yes, you did. You were like,

you were incredulous about my lack of good fortune in that department. So I thought, I'll throw open. I said, I'm going to find a partner for Tom. Yeah. I was like, you know, I think we were having so much conversation. I said, oh, this is easy. Yes. This is nothing.

Yes. Just, I'll go on Instagram. So I go on Instagram and I'm trying to remember what I posted because I know I didn't disclose who you were. I don't believe. Or did I? I can't remember. I think it was a bit nebulous. Yes.

Yeah. But I essentially was doing online matchmaking for you. You were? We had an incoming number. We had a group come in. Four. I don't mind, darling. This is an honest space.

That number is indelibly seared on my mental retina, four. We had four, four come in. However, you know, once again, it's the pool. I didn't have Lake Ontario. And there was one in particular that I think we had discussed, that I thought was acceptable. Oh, right. I don't remember this.

I thought he was a little old, though. Oh, right. I think he was a little old. Right. For you, right? Because you're very youthful, right? But what I realized in that process was that I was also ultra-protective. So I was saying, no, won't work.

Nope, it's not going to happen. No. Yes. I don't like. And that's when I realized that I would not be a help for you, which is also why when Jill and I had our matchment. agency. Yes. We had a strict no friends, no family policy. Yes. Yes. Yes. We have to talk about celebs. Oh, we do really. We have to talk about celebs because it was the

the voice that got you to celebs. Yes. And you said they were looking for you. Well, I think this was beautiful. Well, they didn't, I don't think they knew really what they were looking for. Okay. But they knew that they were going to have agents that needed to sort of be strict occasionally. Yes. And needed to sort of know their staff.

So then as a juxtaposition, they wanted somebody that was never strict and didn't know anything. And that was me. And then I was very worried about it because I thought, you know, perhaps it would be sort of produced. Yes. And I went in to talk, and I just had to talk. I had to talk to the man that created it who was just sitting off camera. And I just chatted to him for about an hour about all kinds of things.

And then that was it. So then Tom, what year was that that? started, celebs go dating? 2016, I think. 2016? Yeah, I think so. So, ten years. Ten years.

And I know there's been over 300 episodes, I believe. Yes, I think yes. And then some. Yeah, then some. Because it's interesting. I remember celebrating 100 episodes with you. Yes, and that was shortly after you were right. And you must have amasson nearly 300 yourself.

You're right. I think I've done. You're right. I think I've done over 300. Yes. So then that year, so 2016, and celebs go dating, the premise is, in essence, there's an agency. Yes. Celebrities are matched with, quote, unquote, civilians in the public.

Yes, that's right. It's narrated by the fabulous Rob Beckett. Oh, my God. I met him at the first rap party, and I said, I've got to see you on stage. And then I followed him around. going to his going to his live shows because I mean I find him

side splittingly finally Yes yes It's that it's the intersection of like Leftfield wit With observational comedy And the whole cocktail It's interesting because I think that the show Is very very good

And he takes something that's very very good And just makes it extraordinary Oh, he's quite incredible. Yes. Do you have a celeb or multiple celebrities who've stood out to you? And why? Over the years. Oh, I loved.

I absolutely adored Orica. Yes. I loved her because she so longed to surrender to a romance. And yet she. in lots of ways we were sort of similar in that we'd sort of very happy with where we'd arrive. Yes. And yet she had this beautiful way of sort of saying, but I'm going to go on these adventures,

and that's really what she made the dates with kind of little adventures, and be so open and... really invite whatever comes my way, very warmly. Yes. And I just loved that. I loved that. And I thought she was witty and erudite and lovely. Also very kind.

Very kind. I remember she baked bread. She baked a bread. And she brought it in it. Yeah, just so off camera. Off camera. Just incredible. Yeah.

Yeah. And, oh, and I loved, I mean, once that come back, of course, you get to know them much better. Yes. Which is heaven, because especially for me, because I have comparatively short scenes with them. So then I kind of clock up more time if they come back. So Sam, of course.

Yes, yes. I got to know him very well. and we met outside several times, you know, lived locally. And but, you know, I have to say, I've never disliked anyone. I've always, I've always been very drawn to the characters, however divergent they are, It's been, that's been one of the love this parts, really. Yeah, I think that's super. Can I show you a photo?

Oh, yes. All right, close your eyes. Close your eyes. Oh, all right. Oh. I want you to tell me what is happening in this photo and who are you with? Oh, this was just before your time, was it? Yes.

I think that's probably 2017. Oh, heavens. This was on the. playing either going to or coming back from Cap Verde and it's Gemma Collins

absolutely you're you're you guys are knocked out but this is like this happened in phases because in the end I think she was

asleep on me I think this was the beginning so now I can come into the picture of celibsco dating in 2018. I'm going to hold on to that one. Oh, darling.

Now we meet in 2018. Yes. And, you know, for me, it's 2018. I'm living in the United States. I'm given an opportunity to participate in a reality television show in a place that I'm unfamiliar with. Yes. A format I'm unfamiliar with. With a group of people I'm unfamiliar with.

I've brought my family with me. Yes. But there still is a lot of stress and anxiety, if you will, around this. It was also a unique circumstance that I was being brought into. And so to meet this person that I'll be working with and they immediately feel safe was very, very, very important for me, you know, for me participating. Yeah. And then that feeling of safety, that you being the safety blanket for me, just

continued. You know, and it's one of these where I truly, I attribute my time with you. I attribute, I put Anna, you know, our colleague Anna and this is that. It was through the two of you that I fell in love. love with the UK. And in particular, our first year together, it was magical. It was. And I was introduced to British culture through your eyes. And I think that I'm so privileged to have had that opportunity. So many people say, oh gosh, I wish, I want Tom in my life, right? And I say, well, you know what?

I've got him in my life. And on top of it, like this would be bragging. Not only is he in my life, but I was introduced to the UK through you. And that is so, like I can't even describe it to the point where so many people will say, really? You're making the UK your home? Really? You want to be here?

And my response, absolutely. Do you know how incredible it is? you know, you think about whether it was just us in Liverpool. Yes. Yes. And our time in Liverpool, we're filming Liverpool, but just spending that time. I thought we had day dates. We did.

We did. And you know, and I feel so sorry for you, darling, because I very often when we're out, I pretend we're a couple. But the thing is, the undergirding, the top layer of that cake is that. it's a nice fantasy. But the bottom layer of that cake is that this is one of the great romances of my life and it's platonic, but it's, but I fell in love with you then.

And I think that's maybe why I thought initially, do I have a crush? But I think I did have a crush for a while. But I think maybe the reason that it had a little sequel was that all of these things were conflated in my mind because I was like, I love him. You know, I'm sort of in love with him. But I no longer want to, you know, consummate it. And I'm also in love with his family. And so, I'm also in love with his family.

And so I knew that I was like, oh, this is just a love affair. And actually, everything shifted for me in the last 18 months to two years because I am sort of rubbing along so happily as a single person. And I'm so happy with my lot. And I think because I always had a romantic soul. And I think I do in terms of art and in terms of my sensibility. Yes. I think that I always thought that the thing that was missing from my life was a gentleman.

Now I don't. If it tumbled into my life, I'd be happy as a clam. But I don't. I don't seek it. No. I'd like to know that feeling at some stage. You know, I found my person. You know, that would be nice.

And to be in a kind of real romantic haze where it kind of put on your Oki Ali Rosa and everything was slightly better for doing it with the person, you know. Do you feel like you don't have to answer this at all? Yeah. Have you ever had that feeling? No, I don't think so. Not, not, no, not really.

Not really. I got near to it with one person. But, uh, but no, I, no, I haven't had it yet. Okay. It's coming. It's coming. It's coming. It's coming.

I mean, this is. This is why I do think it's very naughty when, you know, when I'm out and about with you and I'll say, you know, I pretend you're my spouse and things. Well, so, I mean, connecting this event to celebs is that you have made me officially naughty. You know, I am, my level of naughtiness has now just, even the boys have noticed it. They're like, what happened to you? I'm pure than the driven sludge. Absolutely. and everyone knows you, knows that is the biggest lie in the world.

To the point where, in particular, I've noticed it with celebs go dating, is that I feel as if we can just empty our souls to each other. Empty our souls. Empty our souls, you know. Empty our souls. You know what? It's time for you to leave already. You know, what time is it?

Hold on. It's time really. But, but, but, but, but, you know, it's, it's so, um, also, can I say this on this is that this kind of banter is my biggest gripe with celebs go dating. Can I talk about my biggest gripe? Yeah, I do. My biggest gripe is that the, so once I got to the show. Yes.

Anna comes in the following year, Anna Williamson, who we love. Yes. Dr. Tara comes in. Yes. A few years later. Yes. We have a scene in the morning called Morning at the Agency. We do.

Right? Where you are in the agency doing something. Yes. We all walk in, the three of us walk in. Yes. And collectively it's improv. It is really, isn't it? Yes.

It's improv. And we improv a scene together. Yes. Those scenes are my favorite scenes of celebs go dating. Mine too. Do they ever make it in the edit? No. No.

No, no, no, no. They never make it in the edit. We've done some incredible things. What has been your favorite? My second favorite scenes, I have to just bring up because they're your least favorite scenes. Oh my gosh, okay. What we call master interviews, and I'm ashamed of myself for loving them so much because they're very masturbatory. Because you sit in a room and you're down the barrel of, you know, they whip out the cannon in a non-naughty way.

Yes. And you go down the barrel and you say whatever pops into your head. And I just love it. As it sort of make the grey cells dance and the synapses snap exercise, I love it. Yeah, you do. I don't know why, but you do. You loathe it, don't you? I despise it.

We have conversations just like this one every week. So if you haven't already, hit follow and the bell icon, and I'll see you for the next one. Had you always wanted to go on, I'm a celebrity? Truthfully, and Antintet used to tease me mercilessly about this. I hadn't really seen it. But I am an adventurer by nature. very good at sport. You're going to think I'm joking now, but my ball skills aren't very good.

But I do love climbing a tree or swimming in an alpine lake or going on a hike or a ramble, all of that outdoorsy stuff I love. Okay. And so when it came up, I thought, and I, and I, and this is a really, really, life mantra for me. If there's no reason to say, no, except that you're frightened of things, you must do it. And I was frightened about things that I hadn't great knowledge of. Like, I don't know if I'll be frightened of creepy crawlies and rodents and things like that. But I was more worried about tossing in my cot and things like that because I, because I'm always scared

about not sleeping. Oh, interesting. So you were more scared. of not sleeping. Much more scared of that. Than anything else. Much, much, much, much more scared of that. But I actually had the most, it was shortest, it was very truncated. But the sleep quality was out of this world. It was?

Oh, it was so deep. It was really a very hypnotic environment. Interesting. And what is the environment like actually? because, of course, we see it from the audience's perspective. Well, that camp part is very small, and it's smaller than it looks. Okay. But the actual camp site, if you will, is sprawling.

Is it? And I spent a huge amount of time, because we had 18 waking hours, really, and I spent a huge amount of time communing with nature. And there was a spot at the bottom of the creek. where we would sort of collect wood for the fire. Okay. And it was tranquil there, but it was also very noisy, but in a delicious natural world way.

So the creek would babble furiously. There was a bush turkey that had like an extraordinary, like, br-oh-kind of not what you'd think would come out of it, sort of basso-profundo. And then laughing kookaburis in the can. And then I had a minor bird that imitated my whistle. Yes, yes. Just amazing.

Which I will definitely testify. I've been on a trip with you. I forgot where we were, I think, Dominican Republic, and I watched, I observed you. Those little terrapins. Yes, communicate with animals and literally have them communicate back to you. Yes, I would say getting to know you and all the baby terrapins came up. came up today.

Yes, yes, on cue. So now, what did you love the most about that experience? I love that level of socialization because I live alone. And a lot of my life and actually quite a lot of my work is solitary. And so that intense a spell in my life of socialisation was really lovely. And then the communing with nature. But the impact that had on me is the thing that I longed to kind of take with me forever back into life. because of living alone and because of having something slightly melancholic inside me,

I can be introspective, quite introspective, and you can't be there. I believe it's a physical impossibility because we had one little mirror, which I never looked in because it was just too ghastly. and we there was no way to be aware of self you know of having a face and a body there was just you forgot it you became a kind of floating phantom that was ingesting everything

ingesting ingesting ingesting and therefore one's lens went utterly out and I thought oh what would it be like to live this way if you could just, just ingest and just delight in all that was in your orbit and lose track totally of the ego, I suppose. And I remember thinking to myself before we left,

oh, if I could keep a symbol of this, I'd be happy. Wow. Just a symbol. Wow. I find that so interesting, And I have heard this before, especially about I'm a celebrity, is there is something that happens there where you evolve. Oh. Oh, it's extraordinary.

And I think that's why a lot of people have an intensely vulnerable moment, which I did about halfway through. I just couldn't stop weeping. I just couldn't stop weeping for nearly a day, actually. And it was because my body was going through a transition, I think, of losing the ego and living, just looking outwards. But it fits almost poetically within this 18 months. of transition, this transition period for you? Yes.

Because I would imagine that you have been able to maintain more than a thimble of your outlook from the jungle as you've now come back. Yes, I mean, I wish, if I'm really truthful, I wish I had retained more. Okay. Because I think what happens when you come out is that all of those other things, spike actually. You know, the things that very much root you into the civilized world.

We all actually made a pact that we would stay off our devices for another 48 hours. Oh, really? And we all adhere to that because we so loved what it had done to us, you know. So everyone agreed to this. All agreed. All agreed. And I think everybody did it. Look at that, look at that.

While in the jungle, yes. Was there a person or two that you felt that you formed an especially strong relationship with? Oh gosh. I felt so very close to age. I'd love him so. I love him so. And we, you know, his siblings are also his best chums.

Yes. And he, there was so. much that we had in common actually. Like he loves playing with language and bending words and twisting them about

and sort of seeing what shapes they make and he's deeply inspiring with the lyrics to his pieces are oh my goodness I mean he's he's Keats he's he's remarkable and so and Shona, I felt that we sort of shared a soul in a way.

I was so impressed by her and she was discovering herself in that setting and discovering how much power lay in her talents. And that was just lovely to be close to that. and watch that gradual epiphany. You gave her some phenomenal advice in there. Oh, did I? You did. You did.

Oh, what did I say? Your relationship advice in particular. Oh, darling. Oh, yes. You were on it. You were on it. But in essence, you were helping her to understand the power that she already possesses and how special she is.

Oh, I. believe that because, you know, I think that she had to have a measure of time after the jungle and she really has, especially where that platinum larynx of hers is concerned, where she celebrated that and saw what happened to have to have the zenith of her artistic ambitions be realized as a singer. And that was, that was thrilling. I thought there's no cloud in this clear blue sky for her. You know, this is, this is a boon.

Yeah. And you could see she believed, in my opinion, she believed more in herself because she saw that you believed in her. Oh, well, I hope so. I hope so. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

I know so. I know so. Anyone else that you felt really. Oh, gosh. did it for you. Oh, yes. I mean, I know everyone did to a certain extent. Yes, everyone did to a certain extent.

And I think that was what was so special about it, was that we were so harmonious. And we had a conversation as a group led, I think, by Jack, who was just the loveliest soul, the loveliest, gentlest soul. This is Jack Osborne. Jack Osborne. Somebody built to be a father because he's like you. He's just generous of spirit, just giving. and his antennae are always up. And very sophisticated, nuanced emotional understanding.

And he said, and Ruby said it too at a different time. Okay. Isn't it special that we've made a microcosm that's entirely harmonious when, you know, We know, well, we don't know in that moment what's happening outside, but we know what was happening outside when we came in. Yes. And we have been given the tools in this microcosmic world

to make what we'd like, what we'd like to see. And we all decided that what we'd like to see is harmony. Wow. And so it was a conscious, It was a conscious thought uttered by more than one person and felt by all. Yeah. Keenly felt by all. And those two actually were, I was very close to them as well. And the other person I have. . . . . . . . . . are you saying Jack and Ruby, E, Wex. Yes. Yes. And the other person I have to mention is Martin because, oh, my God, Martin is fascinating. He, he, he, he, he, he. can speak Polari.

And Polari is, was a secret gay language, pre-dicriminalization of homosexuality. And people could speak it so that they could, mainly if Hilda Handcuffs, which was what they'd call the law, were around, to go under the radar and still say what they'd like to say.

And he said to me one day, oh, bono, Pallali's Tom, which means great legs in Pilari. I said, you don't speak Pilari. And he said, yes, yes. In fact, I wrote a thriller and one of my characters only spoke Pallari. And he said, I grew up listening to Round the Horn, and Kenneth Williams and Hugh Paddock used to speak Pallari on that.

And he said we'd listen every Sunday. And he said, then. he said, I believe that political acts are often felt about 10 years after the fact. And he said, if you think about it, decriminalization happened in 67. And he said, the new romantics as a musical movement happened in 77. Yes. And he said, we were all congregating a club called Blitz where there was no gender, there was no orientation. and we called ourselves the new romantics

because we loved Byron and we loved wild and we loved those androgynous poets who occupied myriad spaces and identities. Yes. And I thought, what a special man. And we had so many, so many conversations about, about his life and those revelations in his life as they happened and how they always

happening at the same time as the arts and there was therefore a movement. Oh, I loved him. Oh, my goodness. I could see that this, I'm a celebrity was truly, it was about community for you. It was about community. And it's interesting because we're watching you on challenges and eating wild things

and having to put snakes and all things all throughout your trousers. Yes, one got very friendly with my own snake. Yes. I think he sort of saw a fellow traveler up by him. There's something familiar up there. I'd like to know you. They say, wow, look how big you are. I'm so, no.

You're sweet, darling. It's nothing to write Homer. about. It's got the right amount of vascularity. Right. That's the key is vascularity. That's the key I like that. I think that's probably why we find it attractive. Because it's sort of reminiscent of a member. I don't know. Yeah, but it's interesting. It's interesting. It's interesting. But we're watching all of this. But for you, what's actually happening is community. Yes, absolutely. So the challenge where you were, I think this was your final challenge where you were eating a porcine vulva.

Yes. Yes. Which is like a bacony radish. Actually, it's not bad. But the one that was hard, which was actually, because it was their silver Jubilee, you know, when I went in. Okay. And therefore, there were a lot of virgin appearances of all sorts of things, I think, challenges and foods. and I got one of them

and it was camel's brain Camel, yes and I said to Antindic I think you must never do this again because that was that was like foie gras that had been left out in the sun for a year It was just and it stuck to the roof

of one's mouth Did it? Oh, that was hard I mean Poor Simon Valva was a walk in the park Was it? Compared to camel's brain Really? Was it? Because you're hungry though Right? Somewhat.

Yes. You're very hungry. So because you're very hungry, does it make the camel's brain, does it go down easier? I think perhaps it made other things that might not go down as easily. Okay. Like, you know, a huntsman spider or a porcine vulva. Yes. Which I had incident in solid and liquid form. Oh, interesting.

And you had the spider... Did you have the spider hole? Was it alive or no? No, it wasn't alive, but I did have it whole, I think. It's quite textually arousing. Really? You know, it's quite crunchy. Crunch, okay.

You placed second. Yes. Okay. Yes. And what was interesting is, were you aware at all of what was happening outside of the jungle? Because there was a concerted campaign for you. I think Jack and Miranda, you're. your brother and sister,

were just phenomenal on that campaign. And they were so naughty because I said to them before, I went in, I left Jack in charge, my brother. Okay. Of my Instagram. And I said, don't do anything. You know, he's got a job.

He's got a full-time job. Yes. And so just Miranda. Yes. And I said, don't do anything except, you know, if ITV ask you to share something, You know, if you get those requested tag things. Yes.

Yes. To collaborate on a post? To collaborate, then do. But otherwise, don't do anything. And then discovering, I mean, it had become a full-time job practically for them in addition to their full-time jobs. I could not believe it. I couldn't believe it. And to answer your question, no, I had no idea.

And also, the funny thing is. that when your eye at least was completely unaware of the cameras, I mean genuinely, completely unaware, until I went to bed each day. Okay. And then when I went to bed, I thought, oh my God, I must have been like watching a car rust. And then it's only after the fact when you leave

and you see montages and things that Ant & Deck play you. and then it brings back a flood of memories and you think, oh yes, I do remember that happening. Whereas the trials and the challenges, I remember almost frame by frame as they happen because there was so much adrenaline coursing through your veins. Yes. And that, you know, it heightened your recollection.

But the days, they were one sort of long, sort of undulating channel and it was very hard to kind of pick the floating bits of debris out of them you just couldn't recall you could do it and you had no awareness of the I would say the falling in love with you that the nation was doing

you were utterly unaware Oh, oblivious. You must have felt the love. Now I feel it. And it is quite humbling and staggering when you're first out and about after that experience. Because I think people invest in that experience so much emotionally, probably because everybody in it is so vulnerable and so naked and so exposed. Yes. And so then when you meet people immediately afterwards,

they are almost compelled to say, you know, I lived through that with you. Because they really did, you know, I mean, they really did. Because if you're in a cage with 15 snakes and their hearts in their mouth, you know, the journey of watching that show, I suppose, is almost, almost as physically taxing in a month. more condensed way as going through it, which is why you get such physical reactions when people are asked about it. You know, they go, oh, I could never do that. Or, you know, how did I do?

How could you do that? Yes. How could you face that? And so I think that's why people get so very on board. Yeah, I think it was a, clearly, it was a life-changing experience for you. It was life-changed. And you met some incredible friends that you'll have for life. Yes.

And on that note, I have a letter from one of them. If you can take a look at that and read that for us. Oh, my, look at this. It's like parchment. Oh. To my liege and servant, I blush to my very cuticles, I must tell you. I am with challenges. Unbeknownst to me, in the inky black of post-crupuscular darkness,

one of thine lordship sperm, hast invaded my corporeal womb, twice, nay thrice. But it was definitely thine. Well, I did have contenders, that's for sure. I nursed this may come at a wrong time, but the cock has crowed. Worry not, for I shall crowd. and deliver in the thistles on mine own. I'll not bother ye, but with a simple lawsuit. But do not blemish thy perfect visage with woe.

It will only be for a farthing and a small island in Barmy Climes, yours to the death, Queen Rubella, the lady in waiting with great expectation. That is perfect. That is perfect. Oh, she's so heavenly. Oh, I love her so. Yes. I love her so.

I've breakfasted Shea Ruby, you know. Oh, really? Oh. Oh. I tell you, I'll give that back to you as well. Oh, yes, please. Darling, what a treasure show you've offered me. So.

Oh, my, what a special thing. So that is the wonderful Ruby Wax. The wonderful, wonderful Ruby Wax. Yes. it seems like these experiences that you're having now, these opportunities. Yes. You are evolving as a human. Yes.

These experiences are shaping you. Yes. And what you're doing is you're continuing to then give. Actually, I remember when I stopped doing theater and my work more or less became telly and I thought oh that's sort of sad in a way that I can't sort of tell stories anymore you know but then we we do don't we you know we do instinctively and intuitively we we tell stories all the time no matter what the medium is yes that's in essence what you have done for us today

in this conversation. I say this with no joking whatsoever. But you already know this is my sons. They, I feel as if Kingston is very happy-go-lucky. He can be around anyone. He's fine. Yes. Liam is highly resistant to many people.

But the moment that he met you, obviously the moment that Kingston met you is you You change their world. You change their world. And there's so many things that I see they have become because of you. Their stance on queerness comes from seeing, you know, their uncle Tom, you know. their ability, their desire to step outside and see value in the arts that comes from you. Like, that really doesn't come from me. That comes, it originate, the seed was planted from you to the point where that's a career path that they both are heavily considering that comes from you.

And I think they will. I think they will. Do you remember in Battersea Park when? again, in the name of showing off to the boys, I climbed to the top of the tree. Yes. I've got to impress it. That's the awful thing, and I always do this with children. I've got to impress them.

What can I do? But I would never do. It is, I mean, I have so many phenomenal memories with you. Like, truly, I think that is almost the underpinning of a great relationship, is that there's an endless number of phenomenal memories. Because, you know, it was through you also that. you taught me the different accents around. Really?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. Well, I love them. I mean, the thing is, etymologically, accent, and it really means a regional song. Yes. And I love that, because when I hear an accent, I tune in to the melody, really, first,

even though there might be obvious differences in vowel sound or stress. It's the music that really draws you into it and I think that's why I find them so attractive. You know what we should do? We should do something. We've, I think, no, no, we have not done this,

but all right, I have a game. Oh. Let me know if you want to do this. All right. You deliver a regional accent. And you guess it. And I guess it. Right.

Okay. Let's see. Please, please. I've been talking so much about it. I know these. I'm going to put a bit of regional lexicon in there as well. Okay, yeah, go deep on the region. Okay.

Now that you're a brett, lung, me, your lum, reek. Oh my God. We're north. We're way north. Yes, well done. Yeah, we are so north. Yeah. Are we so north?

We're in Scotland. Yes. Bravo, down it. We're in Scotland. So it's like wishing somebody a really happy home and heart, Langme or Love Week. Okay. There you go. Okay.

All right. Give me another one. All right. I want to know. One and now. You know what? I'm feeling musical. Let's bash out a song on the old Joanna.

You are Essex slash East London. Yes. And Joanna is Cockney rhyming slang for piano. Oh my gosh. Look at me. Look at me. Bravo. Thank you.

Okay. I wish you and this podcast, all the luck and success it deserves my little accoutchele. Okay. I know we are in Ireland or Northern Ireland. Bigot. So we're in that territory. All right, look at that.

It's Irish. And a kushla is, you're my kushla. Akushla is from Irish Gaelic. Ah, okay. And Akushla means pulse. And it's short for, oh, pulse of my heart. And so it's, akushla is just, oh, pulse. And it's the notion that somebody is so vital to your very being,

that they're like your pulse. Yes. Isn't that beautiful? It is beautiful. I mean, it supersedes beloved, doesn't it? It's just like, it's heavenly. It is. This is why I love etymology.

Yes. Right, because then I think what you end up doing is your vocabulary changes once you understand the origin. You see it through that prism. Yes. It's absolutely true. I've never heard you actually do mine before. which I'm scared too here. There's one example which is when I suddenly realized

normally I wouldn't dare do yours but I have to do yours when I tell this story because because I suddenly see myself through your eyes because it was so awful what I did to you. You know what's coming, don't you? Yes. So one day you and I were out and about in Brixton, I think, or perhaps somewhere in South London. And you had a lash on your cheek.

And I pulled it off. And I said, and I held it out before your eyes. And you said, because you're so polite, you wouldn't. say why are you fingering my face and pulling off my hair um you went um oh wow tea oh wow look at that whoa tea and i was like and then i said well blow and you looked even more aghast and you're like wow what like oh I realized that people in Washington don't pull off people's eyelashes and tell them to make a wish. No, no.

I don't think that's a U.S. thing. No. No, I don't think so now. No. But that's a, is that a full British situation? I think so. Interesting. Yeah, it's very lucky.

But you did blow it off and make a wish, didn't you? Yeah, I think I did. I think I did. You know what? I think you got me, though. Really? Those are my preferred choices, or should I say, selection of words. Wow.

When Kingston or Liam impersonate me, that's exactly what they do. Oh, the other one that you love, which I love that you love, is that's wild. That's wild. Yes, that's wild. Oh, that's wild, tea. See, that is wild. I didn't think I can do you. I didn't think I can do you very well.

No, you did it perfectly. You know, you have, I don't have that ability. I think there's a separate muscle to impersonate. Can you? No. You can't do me then. I wish I could. No.

Do you know how much money I could make if I could do you? If I can impersonate you, do you know what I would be doing right now? I would be touring. That would be quite an only fan if you could do me. Tom, Reed, Wilson, I adore you. I love you so. I, you are truly, you are one of the most kind, beautiful, majestic, wise, witty, fun. You're going to go until I say you can't, darling, you're fine.

You have to say, truly. Truly, truly, one of the, you are also one of the most influential people in my life. And I am so thankful to have met you. I am so blessed to have you in my life. It is a privilege to have you in the life of my family. I am going to be one of your biggest protectors. from, you know, throughout eternity, even when I pass away, I'm still going to be out here protecting you. I think you were placed here on this earth to make us all reflect, to make us all

better human beings. And it is a blessing to actually know an angel. So thank you. Just thank you. And I love you. And beyond this, conversation, I'm just, I'm truly, truly blessed to have you my life. So, so thank you. Well, I feel, I feel the very same. And I knew, isn't that, isn't that amazing? I knew the second we met. I mean, neither of us really believe in love at first sight, but in a funny old way, we did have it because I knew there's something. Yes. There's something here that if I'm permission I will perceive to me

forever yes isn't that something isn't that something look at that I do love you oh yeah I love you too but you're doing my eulogy

remember that yes I am but it's whoever I'm awfully macabre isn't it but it's a perfect way to end whoever gets to the grave first

will do the others eulogy my money on me getting out. No, no, no. Hands. Matt, it's not happening. This is very, this is very,

we shouldn't finish on this. No, that's the perfect way to finish. No, that's the perfect way to finish. Clog popping. No, I'm dying first. Tom Reed Wilson, my buddy. I mean, there's so many things. One is, I think probably the most important,

is how Tom holds space for every space for everyone in his life. We saw it on I'm a Celebrity. You see it on celebs go dating. You see it in every interaction, every television show that he does. He's a master at it. But it's something that he doesn't practice or rehearse or preach. He just does. And I think that's something we can all take from him and from his story. He mentioned, he said, you know, we both don't believe in love at first sight. And I agree. I always say I don't believe at love at first sight. I but actually the first moment that I saw Tom, we became intertwined indefinitely.

It helped me redefine love at first sight in platonic relationships. You know, Tom is the person who taught me how to hug someone. Before I met Tom, I was what I call the standard hugger. I would hug briefly and then tap, Tap, tap. He taught me, no, you give it time.

And my hugs with him are a minimum of 30 seconds. Minimum, when you hug someone for that long, you can actually feel a difference. You can feel cortisol levels, dropping, you know, you could feel the connection with the person. He taught me how to hug. Yeah. This is an exclusive.

Not told anybody this. The story is the same thing I've been telling for years. It's just like the cameras are now in focus and people are actually hearing it differently. I just think about Little Kerr upsets me now. Can you believe that we're doing this again? It's just bloody love me, fault. Here he comes.

He's coming in. As a good interviewer, I have to ask you this. I don't want to be associated with it. When we're together, it's amazing, but we are very different people. Do you believe you two will get married?