We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - TommyInnit: How Getting Banned From Minecraft Changed My Life! I Was 16 Years Old With £1 Million

Episode Date: August 12, 2025

In this episode of We Need To Talk, YouTube phenomenon TommyInnit (Tommy Simons) opens up about the truth behind going from playing Minecraft streams in his bedroom to global fame, the lessons and warnings from Mr Beast and Logan Paul, and why 15 million subscribers couldn’t fix the things that mattered most. Tommy shares the reality of becoming a millionaire at 16, the toll that fame, loss, and constant online attention took on his mental health, and how grief, anxiety, and the pressure to keep performing nearly broke him. For the first time, he speaks openly about the worst panic attack of his life, the heartbreak of his parents’ sudden split, and how losing his friend Technoblade (Alexander) changed his world forever. From 24/7 security on tour to wearing disguises in public, Tommy reflects on the extremes of internet stardom, the jealousy and self-doubt it sparked, and why learning to disconnect from the numbers may be the hardest lesson of all. Now, through stand-up comedy, music, and building real connections away from the screen, Tommy is finding his voice again, not just as a creator, but as a person learning it’s okay not to be okay. Tommy shares: ◽ The story behind his million-pound success at 16 ◽ The lessons (and warnings) from MrBeast and Logan Paul ◽ Why Technoblade’s last message means so much to him ◽ How he’s learning to separate self-worth from views ◽ The truth about the friendships he lost along the way ◽ Why love and connection matter more than any subscriber count TommyInnit, We Need To Talk. Follow me here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk  https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod Follow TommyInnit here:https://www.youtube.com/@shutuplmtalking  https://www.youtube.com/@TommyInnit  (00:00) Intro (02:04) Differences Between the UK and the USA (04:59) The 'Curse' of Being an Only Child (07:42) Tommy's Experience of School (10:32) Tommy's First Forays into YouTube as 'Channel Nutpig' (15:23) Adopting the Name TommyInnit (33:24) Treatwell Ad (34:46) Tinder Ad (36:00) Setting Up 'The Dream SMP' (41:06) How Much Money Tommy Made at the Start of His Streaming Career (51:22) Love Better Tour Ad (52:26) How Tommy Dealt with His Numbers Going Down (59:46) Tommy's Experience Losing His Friend Technoblade to Cancer (1:02:38) Tommy's Take on the Allegations Surfacing About YouTubers and DreamSMP Members (1:03:45) The Series of Events That Led to Tommy's Recent Depression (1:08:09) Tommy's Diagnosis for Depression (1:18:31) A Message from Tommy's Mum (1:20:52) Tommy's Struggles with Anxiety (1:30:09) Most Memorable Conversation (1:35:17) Paul's Takeaways Sponsored by: Treatwell: http://Treatwell.co.uk with code PAUL10 - T&Cs apply Tinder: https://tinder.com/en-GB Get Your Tickets to the Love Better Tour: https://bit.ly/lovebetter-MP Get The Love Journal now: https://bit.ly/lovejournal-yt  SYNCID: MB01G28TXDZVAQM Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day, like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at usaa.com slash bundle. Restrictions apply. Good sleep is everything. That's why Ali's science back support is made with a blend of melatonin and L-Dienine for both kiddos and grown-ups. So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help. You're racing thoughts and restless nights won't.

stand a chance. Find Ollie Sleep Solutions for the whole family at Ollie.com. That's OLLLY.com. I was 16 made like a million quid. Tommy, in it, you are one of the most fellow people in the world. It was the most amazing thing, and then it really backfired. We had the police around

and my mom was crying. That was very scary. Start making these videos. I got a taste. And I was like, oh, I'd want more of that. That was genuinely the last moment in my life that things felt like real. And I was like just watching myself make the most money I've made. Keep it a big secret and no one at school knows. So the day of reckoning

came. All of my self-esteem was leaning on this thing I'm the most popular person ever. That was the worst feeling in the world. Because I'm still on this treadmill, but I'm not really running for nothing anymore. And at this point as well, I'm finding it really hard to navigate. So every week I'm having a call

with a different YouTuber, KSI, Mr. Beast, Logan Paul. It appeared as if there was this brotherhood. Well, because we're all misfits. We don't fit in and then we're all helping each other. At night, I had called that like Techno had died. I loved him. He was a hero

of mine and he was a friend. At that point on, the world lost some of its color. Thank you for being a voice that says it's okay, not to be okay. On that note, I have a little surprised me. All right, before we begin, I want to say from the bottom of my heart, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Why? Because we can't believe how far we've come with this podcast. But in particular, we've come this far because of you. Your support means everything, whether it's a comment, whether it's a DM, whether I get stopped in the street, which I do and I appreciate, I just want to say how much we appreciate. And if you have not yet subscribed, I want you to click the subscribe button or hit that bell icon.

What it allows us to do is bring you more and more of these incredible conversations. And that being said, let's get into it. Tom Simons, we need to talk. All right. So here's where I love to begin. You're internationally known, right? How do you characterize the difference between British and, say, maybe American? Even in the commentary, do you notice a difference?

Oh, massive. Oh, you do? Yeah, like British people are, like, funny, always. Like, some American people don't enjoy humor. Like, everyone is English. Even after that, I swear. Absolutely. Even our souls are like funny.

No one doesn't have a sense of humour here. Everyone's up for a bit of that. Everyone has that really same sort of dry sense of humour. Like I had another American pal came over. And when we were together, we were like, you're a dickhead. And we all know that's funny. And he was like, mate, why is everyone calling each of the dickheads? I was like, because it's funny.

Yeah. It's sort of, you know, it's so, like, is brash, the right word. I don't know. Whereas Americans are so much more communicative. you know and in such a way of like they can handle a bit of confrontation i can't in a group setting ever if someone's annoyed me and i don't think anyone in england can go i didn't like that in the moment we can all hold it in and then afterwards whinge about it for hours but like whereas americans like some of the stories i hear of americans be like hey man i didn't like that can you

stop they go i'm sorry like what how do you it's like i feel like british people avoid awkwardness at all costs. It's like more than my own life when I avoid that. Yes. And I'm trying to figure out why this is. Because to your point, I feel like in the States, we're very literal.

Yeah. Very literal, right? We take things as it is and that's the way it is. Yeah. But here, you're right, there's this ability to like kind of take the piss. Yeah. And that's a way of communication.

I think it's because like, this happens to be a topic I've thought about loads. Like, because it was so fascinating to me when I first went to like, Los Angeles and was like this is the same and so different. I think like, I don't know, but for me, from what I've seen in America and American friends, like that culture is so much more about sort of success and the American dream and like getting to that number one and we all deserve it and we can all can get there if we work harder.

Whereas England is much more about finding your place and fitting in and having a pint in a field. And not in a bad way, not in a put down, not in a don't follow your dreams way, just in a like, The world isn't about you. The world is about all of us. Whereas in America, it's almost like sort of the idea of like fame is like reprace religion now. You know what I mean? And it's so like everyone, if you're famous, it's going to solve all your problems. I think that's very insightful.

And it's taken me almost seven years, you know, of living here in England to just understand that point that you made. And I completely agree. I think it's spot on. That is the primary difference between the two. Only child. Oh, yeah. So being an only child, I hear is a gift and a curse. Yeah.

Tell me about the gift and the curse. Well, the gift is, I always have got what I want. The curse is, I've always got what I want. So I've got an older, been in relationships and friendships and friendships and all these things. And then at 16, well, 30, when I have all these dreams, I don't have come true. And then they all immediately came true. I was like, wow, I always get what I want. This is amazing.

And that creates an asshole. So I've had to sort of not, I've had to put in all the effort I can to just not be a dickhead. Okay. When I feel like almost the foundations of the decedder are like perfectly. You were raised to be a dude. Oh, victory was raised, mate. It was, you know. So mom was a teacher.

Mom was a teacher, but before that she was an actress and was on West End. and on Coronation Street and like a massive, when there was only like three TV channels. So she's already been through the getting recognized and having stalkers and all of that. And then my dad was in video games.

So it was like if you were like trying to like if this was a game and you're trying to crossbreed a YouTuber, you get actor and nerd and literally creates a YouTuber. YouTuber. Yeah. So I've done a lot of research

on children being influenced by their parents. And from what I've seen is literally 80% of the disease. decision that a child makes to enter a career is based on the careers of their parents. Wow. That makes sense. And so when I look at, yeah, you were like literally perfectly braced for this. Yeah.

So your father was not just a gamer though. I understand it. Didn't he create a festival? Yeah. So my dad, yeah, yeah. So my dad did, he created this festival called Game City in Nottingham which round for 10 years. So every, I then met like some of the people. people who worked at Minecraft, like every game that I'd go on to love, sort of grew up around

that, and then he sort of turned it into an arcade that was in Nottingham, sort of an arcade museum experience thing. So I think that's where I probably developed my passion for live events and stuff, and he just loved that to bits. And then my mum, yeah, she was an actress, and then she stopped doing that and became a teacher and around when I was born. And so she was an English teacher and then moved on to work with, like, adults and disabilities. and I go and like volunteer with her there.

I just love that to bits. What about friendships early on? Yeah. Did you feel like you were able to form those or did you have a harder time doing that? Not I love making friends. Yeah, yeah, not at all. I like had my best friend by about age like eight or nine

who lived like 30 seconds away from me. He's still my best friend now. And we hang out like once, twice a week, all the time. But it's weird. It's only as I've gotten a bit, like I never felt. lonely. I'm aware a lot of only children feel lonely. I didn't for a second. I had the best friends around me, the best support from my parents, sort of you couldn't ask for more really growing up. Yes. I really couldn't. You know, that environment that you grew up in feels like a secure

so secure. And there's a lot of discussion around attachment styles. Yeah. And how based on the attachment, if it's secure or unsecure, how we then go on a deviated path, right? Yeah. And the more secure we are, or we feel, the more risk we take. Yeah. And when I look at younger, you know, videos of you, you seem to be a very confident, like overly confident child.

Yeah, oh yeah. So did you feel that. It's funny. I did, I felt really comfortable in my family and confident. And then I went to secondary school and that, like, stopped. I remember I've always really liked order and systems and understood how things work

and sort of structure and I went to like secondary school I remember like my friends who were like my friends in juniors I was like hey how are you doing and they were like sort of being a bit weirder to me

because they were then speaking to the cooler kids and I was like oh and so I sort of found myself much more socially anxious in secondary school so then to be able to like all the things that I was like people would disrespect

you know, loving Minecraft and the single really intrinsically me and performing and stuff, then going online and finding a group that like you're almost sort of rewarded for that. And I would use sort of humour to get out of things, you know, if there's ever like a physical conflict or like I never got into a fight. And I never got like bullied, but I got like taken the piss out of, you know, and had rough times. But like I'd sort of always, I found quite quickly if you'd joke your way out of it, it's a lot easier than, you know, doing anything else. So I do a lot of that.

I know a lot of people fit in a lot less than me, so I hate to whinge about it, but like I didn't feel the most like I fit in. What about relationships, romantic relationships? Because by secondary, you know, many are thinking. Oh yeah, I was thinking. You were thinking. But I wasn't having.

You weren't having. I had like one girlfriend in year seven, but we sort of just played Minecraft together. And that was a really lovely experience of like first guy. And we didn't even like hang out in person, but it was like, I remember walking home from school with her And that was like enough.

And I had this sort of like perfect model of love from my parents. So I really knew what I was looking for. I can see now that you're setting this context, I could see how the online world was this escape. Yeah. You know, but it was also this entry point to a community where you were accepted. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So when do you remember first? Because it was channel nut pig. And I love that. I think at one point you said Some people were calling it Chanel. I pissed me out, man. Yeah, he did.

Chanel. You're right, Chanel Nutpeg. I was like, he's going to make fun of me at least get the name right, man. So what was Channel Nutpig and why? Channel Nutpeg. Channel Nutpeg was my dad made the account

because he did some comics as a joke for me called The Judging Frog with many characters in. And Nut Pig was one of the beloved characters in his comic book he made for me, which is very sweet. I realise now, as I'm older, not every dad makes a son of comic book for their birthday you year.

But so NutPig was one of the characters. It was my favourite character. So he made my account. But Dad thought you had to put the word channel at the beginning. So I was channel nutpig. And then I made a couple of gaming videos on there and was like, this is in year seven. So just before I really, before the social hierarchy began. And before, you know, everyone had really kicked into puberty.

So actually, no, I was very confident. In English class, I get in early, and then I'd go to the teacher, Miss, can you put on Channel Notup? Then I get everyone to watch Channel Notup Big. I was like, that's me. I'm on the big screen. And I thought, wow, this is great. I'm the coolest person in this school.

And then what I found out is I wasn't. And then they all started kind of taking the piss out of me. And I was like, hang on. So I took down the videos after the new for about eight months. And then I got ridiculed for it for like a year. It was like anyone. Like my street cred was known as Channel Not. Nutpeg.

They go, yes, channel nut pig. And I go, oh, I see it. So it wasn't, that, that really, that was a really negative experience for me. So I, that really put me off YouTube for a couple years. Okay. So what allowed you to then come back to YouTube? Well, a couple years later, so I met Freddie and he was doing his channel, gaming sloth.

I don't want a stupid name. Very animal themes, names. Which he changed to Bad Linu. and I sort of saw that he was doing it and he just looked so fun and I really missed it and then I found out about Twitch which was a lot, a lot more underground at the time so much, it was just before like Ninja and stuff

so it wasn't massive and I was like oh okay I'm gonna Twitch stream you know I can play Minecraft and I started Twitch streaming and this is how old are you at this point? 13, 13, 13, maybe yeah 12, 13, 40 around there okay really young I do that, I love it.

And then immediately, like, some of the sort of higher-ups in my Minecraft server, which kind of, like, replicates a school system in terms of, like, social, you know, you have, like, higher-up ranks. So you've got a YouTube rank, but I was only the VIP rank and you pay for it. It's the whole thing. But that hierarchy, I could see. Very important. I love that.

I love structure. Yeah, it makes sense to me. It does. But I was like, YouTube rank, oh, my God, they're cool. A YouTube round, and I spoke to me on my first dream. And it was like, I got a taste. And I was like, oh, I want more of that. And that taste, what was the feeling?

It was mad. It was like the most unbelievable, exciting thing of, oh my God, this world that I shouldn't be in, because of course I shouldn't. I'm, you know, my mom's a teacher. My granddad's a plumber. My dad works at this. I'm going to end up, you know, doing something in film. And I knew I'd do something creative, but like, whatever. And seeing, whoa, what the hell?

was the most, I couldn't believe it. I was like, hang on. I found what? And that was it. That was all I did. So then me and Freddie would stream every night, like trying to get more followers on Twitch. And we would just be so irritating.

And I had no social skills, but we wouldn't mind. Sorry, go off. No, no. But so this is, to help me understand your thinking behind this is the hit of excitement. Yeah.

Was it that you were being recognized, recognized by someone high in the high? hierarchy? Was it that you shouldn't be, is it all of it? I shouldn't have been there, no. I'm just like, me from Nottingham, do you know what I mean? I shouldn't be speaking to YouTube ranks. I was like, wow, I shouldn't be doing this.

And I'm doing it. This is amazing. And I didn't sort of feel imposter syndrome at the time. I just felt like, oh, yeah, wicked. So, yeah, then, and Freddie was just always there supporting me, just always from the very beginning, just like, in a call with me, helping me. And I just ring him, just being like, Freddie, you need to get on. We have to get me more subscribers.

deny. So the objective was more subscribers to increase rank. Yeah, to get to that top rank that I wanted, which was 30,000 subscribers. Okay. So we sort of, and then I found out, oh, it's actually going to be a lot easier after a year of doing it on Twitch. And all my friends were like, we just want to play Xbox and get girls. And me and Freddie were like, no. We just did that.

So all of our friends stopped hanging out with us. It's just me and Freddie. But we did literally, I didn't think about it once at the time because all that mattered was like, found this new world. We're making new online friends as well. And then I found, oh, it's going to be easier if I go back to YouTube. So I went back under my now new username, Tommy Init. Okay. So where did Tommy Init come from?

We're in geography class. We had to like make a Quislet name. And it came to me. I was like, my name's Tom, but hang on. What if it was Tommy, that's super cool? And then what do I? Oh my God, I say In It a lot. Tommy, that is a cool name.

Now, remember it came up on the board. And I thought everyone would have had cool usernames. And it was just like, Sean 104, Annie 106, Tommy, and I was like, I'm Tommy In It. I remember my geography teacher was like, Tommy In It, really? And it was the first time I remember going, yeah, really. That is a cool name. So how were you so self-assured?

Because I would imagine a lot of people, especially with their teacher, yeah, saying Tommy In It would have then accepted that and said, okay, you're right, I should be Tommy 104. No. You know, what do you think at that age gave you that confidence? I think I just had so much love and acceptance. You know, I didn't have it all at school, but I didn't need it all from school. Well, my parents loved me and they encouraged me with everything.

My mates love me, you know, I just was like overwhelmed and loved, do you know what I mean? Yeah. So it sort of just makes for, you can just do what you want, really. It makes sense? Yeah. It makes sense. How much time were you spent? on YouTube, do you think, at that age?

And this is, so you were 13, 14. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, how much time were you spending? Probably like two, three hours a night. And then it got more. I do like 30 minutes in the morning. Yeah, so, I mean, that's quite a bit.

And then I get home and I'd stream for like two hours. In particular, Minecraft. Yeah, always Minecraft. Okay. So for anyone who's not heard of Minecraft or watch the movie, right? How would you explain what Minecraft is? I mean, it's just really simple. game where like you're an avatar and the sort of blocks around you that you can sort of mine and

and create things with or destroy with and it kind of replicates like the real world like obviously you know it's fantastical but like you know like the server I play on which is called high pixel was like almost a social media app you know you'd have messaging on it and friends and ranks as say and it was really um sort of that i think when people imagine what like the metaverse is or what like the virtual sort of ready player one type world is that we could live in like is that is Minecraft do you know i mean it's just it's really good yes yeah it is i'm with it yeah but my boys may be addicted to it oh really oh yeah and i think it's it's a very healthy uh yeah it's it's a healthy thing to do it's really warm you know what i mean and the soundtrack and you know

It's sort of, for how big it is, it's such a, unmalicious game, so sweet, you know what I mean? Really responsible game. Yes, yes. So who were you watching at the time? I would imagine Dan TDM is someone. So I've been watching Minecraft since it was about eight or nine. So I watched Dan when I was about nine.

And I just had these influences coming in for years and years and years. And then I started finding these YouTubers who were a little older and a little edgier, a little more to my tastes now as like a 13-year-old. And I fell in love with that scene. Okay. And who are some of this? The original Ace, Technoblade, Skeppy, sort of like anyone who is more nicheally in the Hi Pixel community, I just couldn't believe there was this community that I was like,

I felt like I had like a pingy toe in. Yes, yes, yes. So you feel like, okay, you're a part of something? I did, yeah. All right. Now, how successful is that growth? Because that was also a goal for you, right? to grow subscribers. I think because my only goal was streaming and doing that, I ended up accidentally making my videos way more creative

into my tastes than I meant to. Because I wasn't thinking about, I was just like, what should I do? And even sometimes now I watch those first videos and I go, I'd love to like get to that completely creative, unfiltered place again

where I'm just making what I think is good. Yes. Because they're so, like, I think they hold up so well. They're like just me being me at the time. Yes. I mean, clearly, I mean, you've become one of the most followed, like literally one of the most followed people in the world. Wow.

Right. When you put it like that. Fucking hell. But can I run numbers? I mean, you know these numbers better than... I try and forget about it. YouTube, 15.1 million. Yeah.

As of recording. Yeah. 15.1 million. That's on one channel. 5.32 million on another YouTube channel. TikTok 11.9 million. Yeah. X.

4.2 million. and Instagram 3.1 million. You know, one of the most followed people in the world. Yeah. So I want to learn how you got to that. Yeah. And it seems like it started with this, to your point, this unfiltered, colorful,

I'm just doing this. Yeah. Because this is coming from my heart. Yeah. Well, I think, thank you very much, by the way. And I did that. And then I'm starting to see people around. me you have about two, three thousand subs like blow up.

It's not copying them and getting, you know, making, talking about like hacked clients, which will get you banned on the Minecraft server. So start sort of breaking the rules to try and get, you know, I sort of diverge away from myself for a bit. And then on my favourite server, my community, I get banned for a month. I can't believe it. And right as I get banned, me and Freddie and my parents go to Wales, when I have this sit down, I'm just, I'm really like annoyed, really sort of heart.

broken but I remember sitting down at this like lake and it's just me and him in Wales and I go I really think this is serious Fred I really think I can do this I think I've got what it takes and Freddy's like I believe in you and I come home and then I go right it's going to make a video for me then I can't do literally anything I'm going to make a video I just want to make and I make this one called like the fastest clicking method where I'm just so weird and stupid and then I guess like more views than anything I've done and that's one of learn a valuable lesson. Okay, cool. Be myself because that works better than anything. What was your vision at that point? I just wanted, like, YouTube rank. I just wanted that,

that little symbol that I've, like, made it. That's all I wanted. Interesting. And it was just the rank. Like that. Yeah, it's just a little name on iBixel instead of like, it just says YouTube Tommy in it instead of Tommy in it. I was like, that is the most important thing in the world to me. Because it felt like the first thing that was like a dream but I could achieve it. It was almost impossible, but it wasn't. And there's the fact that I could do it. I was like, have to do that. I have to do it.

You know, so this is not unlike in my conversation with Dan TDM or I had a conversation with Talia Marr, right, around performance on YouTube. And there definitely seemed to be, and I think the appropriate word is obsession on the numbers. Yeah. And so would you feel like you were obsessed? I absolutely. was obsessed and it was the most amazing thing for like four years and then it really backfired on me these last four years so so take us through the the four year rise so yeah okay so i um i get unbanded

and i start making these videos and i start performing better and better it was at my mom's friend's wedding and we sat in this field and i hit 10 000 subscribers it was the i couldn't believe it that was genuinely the last moment in my life that things felt like real. Really? Yeah. I still haven't really processed everything that's happened since that moment. I can remember that's like the pinpoint, hit 10,000 to grab them. This is incredible and mental.

And since then, it's all... Things have changed. Yeah. So in that moment, how old were you? 14. You were 14. So you're 14. You're sitting in this field.

You're at a wedding. You see you hit the 10,000. What's the feeling? I just, I didn't cry. I was just so. like it was this beautiful field it was sunset i can remember it i just remember being like oh it's happening i was a kid man i know you know you know you must have told your parents and yeah yeah they knew yeah yeah my friend knew and they were all so supportive and so happy for me okay

and freddie too man like freddie's just been the best friend i could ask because he he like had a really rough time in school and i didn't realize that every night he was coming home and then he like the thing you look forward to all day was just getting on call with me and we just play Minecraft. So like, but I didn't know that. I just thought me and him, he was just my best mate and I just loved him because he's Freddie and he's great. So then like he's just been, I think, because he's just appreciated that so much when he's down like the roughest time of his life. Like, we've just had the best friendship ever. Like, it's just been incredible. Yeah. I genuinely could not do it without him. Like, he is the most important. I can tell.

You know, because even in this short bit of conversation we've had, you've mentioned him more than anyone. Yeah. Well, he's the best, man. Like, literally the best friend he could ever us for. Yeah. I see it. And so you hit the 10,000.

Then I hit 20,000, like, a month later. Then I hit 30,000. And I remember I woke up and I had it. I had YouTube rank. It was like, wow. Oh, my God. It makes me like, it makes my heart drop. It's so silly, but it properly makes my heart drop.

Like, even remembering it, I couldn't believe it. And I just was like, oh, it's happened. This is it. this is all I ever wanted. But then a couple days later, I hit 31,000 subscribers. And I'm like, hang on.

I didn't plan. Hang on, no, I've done my plan. It's happened. I'm done. What else? What's happening now? And then I'm like,

it keeps going up. Because obviously I'm really enjoying it. I'm loving making my videos. I'm loving YouTube. And then, like, a couple months later, I hit 100,000. And I'm like,

and then I start getting some new goals. Like, getting a video that has a million views. Okay. And becoming friends of, like, Technoblade. And I'm like, whoa, these are like that extra good. This is like, I've got what I wanted, but I'll keep going. Yes.

So as your social ranking also is increasing online, what's happening at school? At school, it's funny. I just, I tell a couple of my mates, but we keep it a big secret. No one at school knows. And I just start, like, my confidence just goes up massively. Because I'm like, I've got YouTube rank, right? I don't care, I'm not on the football. I've literally got, I don't care you're not liking my selfies.

I've got a lot more like people that mean to me. Like, I'll, like, be arched back. Like, I don't mind. And everyone gets a bit, at least I remember, everyone being a bit taken abat by me and being like, what's going on with him? Why is he so proud of himself? But like, he's just like, why is he so happy? Isn't it?

Yeah, everyone was like quite confused. Genuinely, I'll be honest with you at the time, I felt like I was Spider-Man. I had this secret. I had a secret identity. No one knew. I was super cool and I was a hero outside of school

but in school I'd properly like, it was so cool feeling like Spider-Man. He was so sick. But don't you want to, you know, I would imagine if I was Spider-Man

I would want everyone to know I'm Spider-Man. No, not at all. Because I really didn't, you know, these are people I've had relationships with for four years

and I don't want them to think of me differently. It's really important to me that I'm still just me and that was always something that was really important and it was scary Would they, you know, like, try and beat me up?

Would they like, and I was really, really, as much as it was fun, I was like really scared about what would happen at school. I wasn't like having nightmares, but I was scared. You were scared. But why were you scared of being beat up for being successful? I didn't know if people would be like, Minecraft, that's not cool, we're going to do that. But I just didn't, there's so much that was unknown that could happen. I didn't want all the attention at school.

I loved it online, but in person, it's very different. I didn't want that. Okay, interesting. So the day of reckoning came. Day of reckoning came. They found, and it went by, like, some kids would find out. And I go, please don't tell anyone. They go, your secret's safe with me.

It was like, so cool. And then everyone found out. I remember, like, I was in sixth period science, where I had none of my mates. And a mate I'd known for years went, is this you? And I was like, yeah. And their face looked like, shocked.

I remember, like, this girl that I'd known for years that I'd sometimes had a crush on. She's just looking at me like I was a stranger. Remember that was the first time I was like, well, I don't like that you're looking like, you don't think you know me anymore, and I've known you, and I've not changed, didn't like that. I remember at one time I was walking home from school

with another girl I had a crush, I had a lot of crushers that I didn't do anything on. I was all, Minecraft, she was. And I remember she was like, this is mental, I'm walking, and she was like, God, like, what is happening? You, what, there's something you're not telling us. What is it?

I was like, I don't know. She's like, are you looking at YouTube or something? Like, a secret YouTuber. Like, what is it? And I was like, no. And then she moved on and I was like, wow, that was like a movie. I was so, I thought it was the coolest thing ever. But Tom, help me understand this.

Yeah. And this is, so if you have a crush. Yeah. On her. Yeah. And she's already alluding to, oh, are you a secret YouTuber? if you told her, do you think she would be impressed? This is the thing.

It was almost like an oxymoron. Because on the one hand, I had 100,000 subscribers and I was a YouTuber. But on the other hand, I was a Minecraft YouTuber, which is intrinsically the least cool type of, like, and this was before Minecraft had its huge resurgence. It was like dead, and I was like still play. It was a kid's game at this point. It kind of came back and stopped being a kid's game.

Okay. But it was a kid's game that I was still playing. Okay. It was not cool. Fortnite was cool. If I was a Fortnite YouTuber, that would have been cool. But I was a Minecraft YouTuber. I see.

It was not cool. So, yeah, it was this weird thing of like, no, it wouldn't have been. But it got cool. Down the line. Down the line. It definitely got very cool. It got very cool. All right.

So how did it begin to get cool? And in particular, how did you set these records? Because I didn't even realize, is it two Guinness Book World Records that you have? Yeah, I do. Okay. So Tom, tell me. Tell me what those records are. It's like most viewers ever on a stream, which is like 600,000.

That got broke. And then most followed Minecraft channel ever with like $5 or $6 million on Twitch. So yeah. Okay. All right. I mean, these are impressive things. Thanks. Yeah, they don't even feel like it happened.

I don't even know. So how do you get to that? School finds out. People are actually quite cool about it. And I start being like, oh, actually, I'm cool. And it starts getting to my head. But it doesn't because lockdown happens. Okay.

COVID happens. We all go inside. And I guess so I could have some structure and thought I need something to do. Went right, COVID's happened. Everyone's inside. Viewers are going up. I'm going to try and grind to get like a million subs. That'd be really cool.

I get like crazy obsessed with YouTube. And I'm just on all the time, all the time. Like this is when it gets its least healthy. I do that for a couple of months. and I'm daily uploading. And when you say all the time, how many hours per day? All day. Finally, I went, this daily uploading is killing me.

I've been doing it for a few months. It's stressing me out. Staying up until 4 a.m. every night doing thumbnails. Just because it was something to do, really. I literally had no responsibilities. I got all my exam results for free, and they rounded them up. Oh, wow. I was like not even doing that good.

And they made them all better than they were because COVID happened. And I thought, this is like, well, I mean, if there is a God, that's telling me to get on with this. So, and then, for you. finally I went I'm going to slow down a bit and sort of again like I did with that fastest-clicking method upload a video that's more from my heart I did that and it did way better look at that look at that yeah so I keep going and um like I start doing really good I hit 200,000 and then 300,000 and then I'm meeting all these YouTubers who are like my like heroes and then I meet a dream who is another

up-and-coming YouTuber who knows so much more about the sort of science of YouTube than I do and And he really starts helping me and giving me these advice calls, and he really sees some of it in me. And he really helps me. And we have these calls where he's like helping me with YouTube and teaching me about it. And why do you think he helped you? Because one is, I mean, from my, you know, Minecraft experience,

dream is a big freaking deal. Yeah. Right. And what I find interesting is with a lot of the YouTubers, in particular the Minecraft YouTubers, it appeared as if there was this brotherhood. No really are. Of assistance, like a fraternity, opposed to I'm not going to share with you.

I've loved each of the man. Why do you think that happened? Well, because we're all misfits. And, you know, we don't fit in. And then we're all together fitting in. And there's no competition there. We're all like, this is amazing. We're all helping each other.

And I joined this Minecraft server with him. And I'm doing that on Twitch and neither of you start going up. I'm like, oh. And then more people start joining. And this is the dream SMP. And this is when things really start taking off. Hey, Paul, it's time to tell our listeners about our new show sponsor, Treat Well. Let's talk nails then.

I just had my manicure and pedicure too. And for those of you who might be a bit shocked to hear this, where have you been? I get it done because think about it. My hands are always being filmed, usually more than my face. So I've got to make sure they're always looking camera ready. But honestly, this is my tri-weekly reset. and I always book through Treat Well. You probably know it.

It's Europe's number one beauty booking app where you can find five-star salons near you and you could book 24-7 even after midnight just from your phone and you could see real reviews from people who've actually been. They've got so many treatments available to. Nails, facials, massages. Last week, I tried a brow lamination. Now, I'm not sure I'd do that again,

but you know what? The brows did look great. If you want to treat yourself to something new or try that treatment, you keep seeing on TikTok, now's the time. Use code Paul 10 for 10% off your first booking when you go to a new salon, treatwell.com or through the Treatwell app. Now, this code is just for our listeners and it's for you to try a new salon. Paul, our show sponsor, Tinder, wants to know what you love most about the summer. I love everything about the summer. In particular, I love the taste of barbecue.

I love the feel of barbecue. I love the smell of barbecue. I love barbecue. But you know what else I love most about summer? That it's all about vibes. Not pressure, just that laid back anything can happen kind of energy. And it's actually quite similar to the space that Tinder creates. One where you can ease into possibility.

Tinder isn't about forcing connections. It's about catching a vibe. Like when someone laughs at your weird joke or shares your obsession with obscure 90s R&B, which I have. Now that's a vibe. It's casual, but not random. There's intent in the connection. And when those vibes align, sparks fly. That's when curiosity turns into connection.

And a good conversation turns into something real, off Tinder and in real life. So I encourage you to take the pressure off this summer and lean into the spark. Whether it's a date, a new friend, or a story you'll tell for years, Tinder helps make it happen. It starts with a swipe.

Download Tinder today. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost. Or you could book a stay with Hilton. Welcome to your oceanfront room.

Just steps from the water. The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton for this day. Not loving your AT&T or T mobile bill. Yeah, we've been hearing that a lot.

Good news. Bring your AT&T or T mobile bill to Verizon and we'll give you a better deal. So get away from that unfortunate phone bill and get to Verizon. Run, ride, canoe. Whatever it takes, we'll be here. Bring your AT&T or T mobile bill to a Verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal on the best network. A better deal. No surprises. That's Verizon. Best Network based on Route Metrics, Best Overall Mobile Network Performing, U.S. Second Half, 2025. All rights reserved. It must provide a recent consumer mobile bill in the next.

Name of the person who gave me the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply. The Dream S&P, who are some of the people involved in that? So, Dream, Tubo. Technobay joined it later on, like quite a lot of YouTubers. And then that starts sort of happening. And then we sort of accidentally start having this like storyline. It starts with like an in-game battle. And then so I will be joined the server and he turns it into a much more sort of story-based thing. Which initially I was opposed to because I was like, that's role-playing.

And then we all get really into it because he's a bit older than. than us and he's really into that stuff and he sort of turns it into this thing. Interesting. So you're playing a role. So even for anyone who is not even familiar with DreamSMP or what you were doing, how would you describe it in particular and how it turned into us, a bit of a role play. A bit of a, similar to like Coronation Street. The moment was Oliver. What are those type of shows called? I can't remember. Not a soap opera.

Yeah, a bit of a soap. Like a really dramatic soap set in like Hamilton. era and with Minecraft bows and swords. Like it's just this thing where every unique tune is so what difference happened. And there was always these like, you know, four or five people online and you're getting to see, you know, kind of like how you'd pick like a favorite football look. But then you go and all like sort of celebrity and you'd see how they'd interact with the other ones.

It's always exciting like, you know, what's Technobwe going to be like when you meet the tubo and oh my God. I think because I was the most sort of extroverted, outlandish, really confident person. And I think that gave me the sort of, what are they going to be like when they meet him, this guy, because I was not afraid to be myself or annoying. Do you think you were the villain? I made sure I was the hero. I self-inserted myself as the main character and I was the loudest in every call.

And I can't believe I had the balls to do that. No matter where I was, I was like, this is about me because I get things what I want and I'm a goodie. And I get really annoyed and people start picking me with value. No, I'm the goodie. I know I am because I'm me. Did you, and I'm curious, did you all do like prep calls? Yeah. Oh, you did to discuss.

Yeah, we'd have like a little list of bullet points of this is what's going to happen today. And we had like 100,000 live viewers and like eight bullet point notes of Tubbo gets annoyed. Tom shouts back. It's like so crap. But to that point, though, is so people understand you had how many live viewers for this? So at this point, I had 100,000 live viewers. But in tandem to the sort of. of story that's going on there. I made a couple other videos but people could really see,

oh my God, I'm a kid who's like all of his dreams coming true and all I was was so happy and I just exuded like the most joy you could ever, even I'll watch back those videos and I'm like, I'm like, in a time where everyone is inside and has been for months and he's fucking miserable, there's this kid who isn't miserable, no one of these is not miserable, he's over the moon and grateful for every second. I think it was a very contagious energy. I think that was another big factor that just made everyone like really connect with me. You could just see how much I was like viewing all this light and like, oh my God, this is the best.

Yes. So what were some of the top numbers for live viewership at that time? So yeah, I started getting, I started going back to college and I was getting about 100,000 viewers on every stream and like a couple million views on videos. And it hit my million view video and I was getting two, three, three months. only views a video. I mean, we have to stop for a second, though. I mean, think about that.

That's more than many television shows. Yeah. Today, you know. I didn't think about, all it felt like for me was, do you remember when I hit 10,000 subs? Yes. It felt like that had gone up. I did not take it in until I started going to college.

And I was pretty not the most socially apt person. And I'd be walking to college and someone go, you're Tommy in it. And I go, what the fuck? This isn't meant to happen because it had been in COVID. I started at 100K, came up with a million. People knew me. And I was like, what? And then that became this whole new can of worms.

Wow. So the first time that you were ever noticed in public, when did that? That was around the corner from my house. I was walking to the park to meet Freddie. And I was walking and these two kids were like staring at me. And I'm from Nottingham. So I did that thing where I like try and make myself look a bit harder. Mary in mind it's like a nine-year-old.

And they go, you'll tell me in it. I go, yeah? And they go, wow. And I go, bye. My like speed walked away. And then I'm, that was like, I was like, you know, in Star Wars. And they go in hyperspace. I was like, whoa, what the hell?

And I just talked about it for the day. It was my week. What was the feeling when, because some people, when they're noticed, right? It's this elation, it's, it's euphoric. For others, it's, oh, I didn't like that. Yeah. Or for others, it's in between. How did it feel to you?

At first, it was, like, amazing. And then I got recognized a couple times on the way to college, and it was nerve-wracking and exciting and scary and wow. And then this thing happened. Now, I remember I was walking through this, like, mall. I don't know what I'm saying mall. like the Vicks Tories Center in Nottingham I was walking through it

and I was with like my first proper girlfriend who I met in college and she was great and I was like really connected with her and just starting that relationship and I was walking through I just remember being like do you know that feeling when someone's staring at you it was like that

and then it just now it hasn't stopped since this is when things started getting a little more complicated for me okay okay because it seems like that you didn't like that feeling I didn't at all no because I just want to Like, go to the park and, you know, go online, finish my stream and then turn it off and go downstairs. I didn't like that.

No. Okay. Okay. So, so you didn't like that feeling, right? Yeah. But you're still continuing, right? Yeah. And your profile is growing.

My streams, yeah, my dreams are still coming true. And I was getting really overwhelmed as well. So I just start, like, going around hers and, like, turning off my phone for a couple days. Okay. or like a day and just not checking it, because I was like, this is getting a bit too much now. And honestly,

I was much more bizarre about that I had a girlfriend. I was like, this is amazing. This is your first girlfriend. Yeah, and I did not care about YouTube at this point. I was like,

oh, that's cool. I have a girl. This is, I can't believe I have a girlfriend. This is the best thing ever. So I was like, whatever. I was just hanging out of it. I did not care.

And then I'd like, I remember I checked my YouTube studio. I was like, I wonder how that mod video I did. And then it got like, you should get like 2 million views and I'd like, five in two days

and I was like there's a lot more and on the streams we like came to the big sort of end of our law like the first art it was called law like the story

and it was like the first sort of big arc and I went live I remember our stream is this big stream and I looked terrible and I was like

oh I have 600,000 viewers right now like 600,000 actual people watching live watching and I'm like

that's weird that's a lot And I was like that. And I remember at one point in the stream, I was like, by the way, if anyone I was like, you free Twitch Prime sub, like go ahead and use it. And then the whole chat was subs. And I was like just watching myself like,

make the most money I've met. I was just staring at it like that. It's probably fine. I don't think about that. It's incredible. And also, can we talk about the money too? Yeah, sure. Because you're talking about you're beginning to monetize.

Oh, yeah. So I've made like a bit at school. Can you disclose how much or the range? Yeah, it was like initially like a couple grand, which is like mental when you're like 15. I was like, 15. I was like, 16. And I'd made more than that. And then I was like, look at this, mum.

She's like, what the fuck? And probably about since that point forward, I went, this is weird. I'm not going to think of my money anymore. And I just stopped thinking about it because it's dressed me out. Really? Yeah. I didn't like it.

So you're not thinking, if I get this many views, I make this much money. Well, I want a views, but not the money. But not the money. I love attention. I didn't want money

because it's stressful. I just didn't like it because I was like, well, I've already got everything I need. I've got my parents. I've got my dogs. I've got my mates.

I've got the new phone. I didn't like it. So I just, it just stressed me out because I was like, I shouldn't have this. This is weird. Like people work.

I shouldn't have this. So I just ignored it. But really I didn't. So at this point, I was like 16. I'd like, made like a million quid. And I was like, that's a bit weird, in it? But what?

Okay, help me understand this. You're 16. Yeah. You've made a million pounds at 16. Many 16-year-olds would say, okay, I love this. You know, I'm going to go buy a Lamborghini. I'm going to go do this. But it seems to like, it was.

Even now, it may, I hate, I don't like, I think the most important thing for me was that I don't lose my identity. and so yeah. So from a lifestyle perspective, it sounds like at 16, making all that money, you didn't change your lifestyle. Not at all. It remained the same. So then talk to me about this, I guess, massive leapfrog moment where, you know, it hits the millions. I started getting recognized a lot now. I started doing videos with a side man who have a very different demographic to me.

And I collaborate with anyone and everyone because it's a sideman. I was so excited to meet him. Yes. But then I get like people who weren't my viewers but knew me. This is when I started being more widely, I guess, famous, which is a pretentious word to use, but like, are people hollering at me and go, yes, Tommy Unit.

People who I wouldn't speak to in school, who wouldn't be my friends were coming up to me. I'm getting a little one, I kind of getting really anxious now in public. I was like, I really hate this. I remember being at college and having to go home early, because I was just like spinning out. So my address was public.

I didn't know this now. But my mum told me only like a couple months ago, some lads like showed up to the house and were like, where's Tommy Unit? We're going to beat him up. up like outside our house. I slept through it. But like, we were getting mail of like pedos and that.

Really? Yeah, because like our address is public. Some people who love me, like we're getting like everything. My parents protected me from all of this. The only thing I saw was when I'd stream. So like we had the police around and my mum was crying and they were like, okay, we're going to like, if you want, when we stream, we'll be on watch. And I was like, what do you mean you'll be at what? And it just became this thing. And I was like, this is, I just, guys, I just want. I wanted juice you around. I didn't mean to cause all this fuss. I'm sorry. I just felt really bad. I was like, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do none of this. I just wanted to play Minecraft. And help me understand because when your docks like that, right, I would imagine there's, there's ill intent. Yeah. They're trying to like get detention. And ultimately, all that happened, if you're in America, it's much scary because they can send a SWAT team and people with guns can like bust out. And I've heard some horror stories from my friends that I'm so lucky. I feel for them so much. I'm so lucky didn't happen to me.

What happened to me was basically people just use Deliveroo to send unpaid food to my house and I got some free milkshakes one time from a delivery driver that felt bad. That's all that happened. But in the time, you're thinking what's going to happen next? Exactly. And that was very scary. And I remember like staying up until 4 a.m. staring out the window thinking I'm going to see someone in my garden. And also it seems as if you were unaware of exactly what was happening.

So your parents were bearing the brunt of the stressor. that. Yeah. So now that you've talked to them in hindsight, did they tell you about how they were even feeling? Yeah, they were spun out. They were scared and they were freaked.

And they were also freaked out about the money stuff and all of it. And like, how do you parent a kid that's now, well, and this point I was more famous than my mum was. And she was like, how do we do this? And they did an amazing job because I didn't,

I still had a relatively normal childhood, even after that stuff happened. My mom would be like, you can't just deliver a reward whenever you want. You'll spoil it. you know, you can spend your money but don't. Like, they would never stop me from anything, but they go, don't be a knobbed. And that was enough for me to go out.

Don't be enough ed, yeah. And then I, you know, it was really transparent with them. And I just go and go around my girlfriend's house loads because I was all right, this is spinning me out a bit. And then, um, from then to July, I went up, I got to 10 million subscribers. And it would be every month, I'd be in the car and my mum and we'd be taking the dogs out to the field. And I go, oh, mum, I've. I'm on seven million now. I've gone up a million.

She'd go, all right. Okay, yeah. How is it? Like, it just like it's like weird. I make another new channel that I started doing vlogs on. And that does bloomin. It's like the fastest channel ever to hit a million. It was on like a day or something.

And then I was like doing that. And I was having a great time because we're out of COVID. And I was like, let's just do some mad shit. So it went skydiving and had a waterpark to herself. Oh, my gosh. And at this point as well, I'm finding it really hard to navigate. So every week I'm having a call. with, you know, dream or a different YouTuber,

tons of calls with like, like every YouTuber under the sun because I'm disorientated. I'm like, I need some guidance. Yes. And I don't know if I did this consciously or not, but one of the best things I've ever done this, I went, right, the thing I lack that's going to fuck me is perspective.

So I'm going to call every YouTuber. So walk us through some of the advice, especially for Mr. Beast, because, I mean, what he's achieved is just, you know, is been next level. Yeah. But, well, but what was the advice that you were getting at that time from some of those folks?

It was nuts. And I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus because they're all YouTubers and they're all, you know, each of their own. And it's much more American mindset than I have. But it was all stuff like about success, about how to succeed and telling me to ditch my girlfriend so I could be more successful.

It's not stuff I, and I'm not going to throw anyone in the doghouse. but like, because I don't blame them at all. And I was asking them for advice and they were trying to help me. These are people who were so, you know, the whole life has been YouTube, way more obsess than I am. But it wasn't, if I'm ever in the position where there's younger YouTubers coming in, who I can help, I will absolutely do it. And I'll give all my time I can to give them the advice and knowledge

and stuff I've got over the years. Because it was just very, you know, success, grind now, relax later, you know, it was actually only when I had my friend like Wilbur be like, don't, no, do that. You know, I see us. Right. Yeah, so I'm lucky I had lots of guidance. I should have just spoke to our parents more, really, in hindsight, because they, of course. And I do now, all the time.

But like, yeah, and it was just saying stuff like, hire one of your mates for two grand to do all your chores for you so you can just focus on the grind. It was all this stuff that honestly kind of gave me this superior sense of self that really would come to. started ungrounding me. And I think that laid its seeds for what was it come. Let me ask you something. When was the last time you really thought about how you love? Not who, but how? Most of us don't.

We're moving fast, doing life, hoping love just shows up and sticks. But that's not how real connection works. So I've created something different. It's called love better and I'm taking it on tour. A live experience for anyone who wants to build deeper, more meaningful connection. We'll unpack the lessons from the couples you've seen me coach. I'll share stories I've never told on camera, and you'll walk away with tools you could use right away. This isn't a show you just sit back and watch.

It's a night of honesty, insight, music, and connection designed to make you walk away with something real. Come solo, bring a partner, bring your crew, everyone's welcome. But seats are limited and they will go. Tickets are on sale right now at livenation.co.uk. I can't wait to see you there. So then if we're back to that 10 million zone, that is, but that's only, what is that? What is that? Only three years ago? Yeah, that's 2021.

It feels like a lifetime ago, man. It's only three to four years ago. Yeah. And then I start like, yeah, I stretch themselves too thin and COVID starts ending in. start going down. And I go from like getting 20 million views of video to 10, but let me tell you that was the worst feeling in the, and that was when I, myself, because I realize now, all of my self-esteem and all my confidence was sort of leaning on this thing that was, I'm the most popular person ever who's ever been this age. And you sort of take that out from me and it

went. It properly went. So getting 10 million views of video instead of 20, and it stopped going, it'd been going up for a year. Since 10,000 subs, it had been going up. That's not going down. And even just the idea that it was going down. Right. I think I was really, really spun out for years. And it's sort of around the time I went on like Logan Paul's podcast.

I remember I started thinking, well, I'm shit. And that didn't leave. Kind of still hasn't, some could say, but like it's starting to. But like that really privately started being a battle I was going through. Okay. And this is when, in almost the identical way of, in high pixel, when I wasn't getting enough views, I started losing myself quite a lot. Like quite a lot.

Yeah. We're going to go there if you're willing. I'm willing. You start to dip. You start to feel crap in yourself. But do you try to overcompensate? Yeah. Because so much of YouTube is based on superstition.

You never really know why this is happening. So I start, like, if I pose a TikTok and it gets like 8 million views instead of 10 million, I like delete it, out of shame. One time I was live and I dipped under 200,000 live viewers. I went to 190,000. I ended stream out of embarrassment because I thought that's so bad. I delete tweets that get like 250,000 likes because I don't get 300,000. That's interesting.

At this point, a lot of my friends join this organisers. called Misfits, and so they go over to America, and I start feeling really quite isolated, because they're in L.A. having the most amazing time, and I'm in Nottingham, and we've built this new little office with like a couple grand, and I'm in there. I actually don't realize it at the time, because I needed my setup out of my bedroom,

but I'm starting feeling quite isolated. In July, me and my first girlfriend breakup, and I have a fun sum of discovering drinking and, you know, being single, but, like, ultimately, it spins me out. You know, because I'm way less happy than I was when I was with her. Yes. And I've stretched myself a bit too thin with these vlogs.

And I'm starting to be less in it. And all my dreams have come true. Then when the last dream is 10 million. And I've made friends with everyone I could ever dream of being friends with. And then it's like, well, what now? Because I'm still on this treadmill. So I'm running really quick. But I'm not really running for nothing anymore.

This is when things get a bit difficult. So I go right, you know, in January of 20, I find a little place in Brighton and within like a week at 17 I'm moved to Brighton by myself. So I have a load of other YouTuber friends here. I go move to live with them to sort of get that sense of belonging. This is a bad eye. Because all these things that you know now I'm a bit older like the importance of family and the importance of love and friendship and nature and dogs that's so simple and home-cooked meals.

I didn't know. So I move out and spend a couple months. Like, I can't hang out with anyone past 10pm because I'm not 18, so I can't go to bars. So I just sit in this like, lonely apartment in a skyscraper like alone, like every night, listening to music, like miserable. But I'm really happy I'm in this city, but it's like weird. And I'm around the city and I started getting recognised all like 30 times when I'm outside. Like it's a lot.

And I'm just like, I don't even know what to do. But I'm still like big, but the numbers are going down. spinning out, like really badly spinning out. And so I call like every, every YouTuber under the sun for advice. So, and you can name any YouTuber. I genuinely mean any and I will have had a two-hour call with them asking them why should I do with my life. KSI, Mr. Beast, Logan Paul, Mark Grover, Ryan Trajan, Dan, mumbo jum, but like everyone going, what did you do? Because I'm a ninja, like I'm a bit lost. And they,

funnily enough, I actually got the best life advice on Logan Paul, which is like one of the most ironic things in my life. But like, he was really wise. What do you say? He was just like careers a really long thing. You know, prioritize your happiness.

Don't attach you worth the numbers. And I was like, that's amazing. But yeah, that's easier said than done it. Exactly. In theory, it definitely works. So I start doing all this. I do my first merch drop. which is very...

That then sets me up even more for life than I thought I could be so up for because I'm very happy about that and then I do that on my 18th birthday I turn 18 I start meeting some more friends in Brighton start being a bit more like normal I go to VidCon in America

and go to Los Angeles for the first time with my dad and we're having an amazing time and I go to VidCon and we do this live panel and I go on stage and there's like 3,000 people in front of me screaming at me and I'm like

oh you're all real people and you're my people, you're the people I would hang out with in school and you're here. And that was one of the most mind-blowing things ever. And I fly back from America after just met in 3,000 people. I remember the whole like 12-hour flight back from L.A. I'm sat like that, like my audience is, it properly changes my life and my outlook. And like that night, like a call from Dream, poor Dream, I had to break the news to me. That, like, Techno had died.

He got diagnosed with cancer. the end of 2021. And that was like, yeah. What did he mean to you? Techno. I loved him. You know, he was a hero of mine. And he was a friend.

And I looked up to him. It was hilarious. And every time it was, me and Freddie were gone and walks and go, I can't believe my friends are Technobblade. And he was, you know, like, he was the only other one properly from High Pixel, that same. server that, you know, me and him had had this great camaraderie, and we'd done streams together,

and he was amazing. And his whole thing was he'd never die. That was like his catchphrase. So he was, and he was interstructed, he had this character that he sort of didn't really drop too much off course. He was a very private, very private person. Like he never died. And then he did. And that was like, you know, we're talking about colourful in my video. I was like, at that point on, the world lost some of its colour. Like, I was just... it put me in the real world. Yes. And God did I like not be in that world for the longest time.

So was he the first person that you would say that you were close to who had passed away? Yeah. Like a granddad, but not someone who isn't at that age that you're respecting to pass away. Exactly. You know, a few years ago, my best friend passed away. Fuck, sorry. And thank you. It's one of those where.

people will say, well, did you process that? It's like, I'm continuing to process. Yeah. It doesn't stop. It doesn't. It just continues. Yeah, and then I have to break the news to a couple of other of his friends and my friends who are all devastated. And then the morning of my show, the audience find out.

And I mean, what a day. That was one of the most, that was the most day of my life, the most, So I go into the show and I'm there. I'm at the Brighton Dome and we're rehearsing. And there's every YouTuber, you know, Dan's there. Dan's in the show, Jack Septica, all the YouTubers are there. And I just have to, and my parents, and I have to take a minute to go to the dressing room and I just lose it. Just cry my eyes out.

My parents come. I just remember thinking to myself, right, I can get through today. I can get through anything. So I sort of, it leaves my brain and I focus on the work at hand. And I do the show. And I go out and do the show and it's the most like, I love it being on the stage. And then at the very end, my dad says that let's put a slide show up for techno. And I can remember, like, looking over and seeing on the big thing, rest in peace, techno blade.

And I wasn't sure if that was, I've always been so self-conscious about not accidentally using him for the wrong thing or, you know, and I see that. And I look out and I see 2,000 people standing ovation, all of them like crying. And I just burst into tears on stage. And you can see the video, but it's the most like, I can visualize it in my head. It's the most moving thing in my whole life. And it was just like. I couldn't believe it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Just one last question on Technoblade is, when you think back, what was the last conversation that you had with him? I would have been that text when he said, thanks for being my friend. Wow. That was the last thing he ever sent to in our chat. I think that's so incredible that his last message to you was, thank you for being my friend. Yeah, that was when I was like, something's up.

because he sent a message that was a bit vulnerable and I was like he's not that's not him that was yeah I was heavy to think about all that and then I um and that I feel like a prick because like

all my dreams have come true and I'm sat here on my ass annoyed at the world and pessimistic and it's just crap then which kind of thing happens where

I don't want to go too into this because I haven't even processed it myself very much but like Someone who have been deeply close with, like, like, Will, like, a load of stuff comes out about him. And he's, like, one of my best pals. But it's been a bit, I don't really know how public I want it.

I don't really want to be very public about this. But quite suddenly, his reputation changes on the internet. And privately, a lot of light bulbs go out in my head around. I'm like, oh, shit. And that, like, really spins me out. And it spins out of the audience. At the same time, a load of other YouTubers in the scene. It kind of starts this almost, like, specifically,

Minecraft YouTube, like Me Too movement of like everyone with loads of people, my like colleagues are like, and they were a dickhead, and they were a dickhead, and they were a dickhead, and they were a dickhead. Also, Dream, my relationship sort of fractures with him. A load of online stuff at the end of 2023 comes out about him. I feel very torn of what to do. This community that we have that was tight knit of the Dream SEP that was beautiful and lovely and, you know, every day I'd log on to Twitter and it feel like I'm going into the school cafeteria and everyone's going, hey Tom, begins to really fracture. Okay.

And I stopped going on Twitter because it's spinning me out Which is a shame because, you know Especially before it was X and Elon bought it It was this beautiful place So I'm really spun out And then I go on tour I go on tour and So in the tour

Jack's like playing my dad Freddy's famous child of the dog And like a couple weeks into the tour I'm on FaceTime So it's like I mean your dad had splitting up And I'm like What?

because they've never argued you know it's been the most tight household full of love but and again I don't really want to go into this too much but you know it's sort of on my dad's end is where the fault is at in the relationship and that they split up really suddenly and it's like

what so every night I'm like doing this show where I'm pretending Jack's my dad and at the end of every show there's a big montage of my family to show how I got to this point so I'm stood on stage where of a thousand people watching my family on stage I'm not going to come home to

and it just like tears my heart in two. It's the worst. So I do that tour and I luckily have Freddie and Jack there to comfort me throughout the whole thing but I'm spent man I'm like I'm properly

And when you tap into your emotions in that moment especially when you look back and you see that photo when you're on stage What are those emotions? I don't even think I knew at the time how much pain. I was in so much pain. I was like, and I quit drinking that year because I was like,

I'm going to end up drinking too much and getting miserable. So I was just like, I'm going to stop doing anything. Because it was like, one time I had a few pints of my head started getting really dark thinking about techno. I was like, right, let's just not do that. And then I go, right, I made this video, I've had a bad year. 2024 is my bad year, but I'm going to be all right. And it turns first of January. I'm like, I still feel bad. And it really, really hurts that Like, I'm still feeling bad. I'm like, it's done moving out. And I'm like, spun out and still myself worth low.

And at this point, like, you know, I've stopped enjoying YouTube, but there's still that, like, still so intertwined in my instinct. I start getting really badly jealous of, like, new YouTubers that are coming up who were like, I've never talked about this. And no one would ever compare me to him. But like, I show speed. He seems like such a lovely lad. But seeing someone who's still in that phase of YouTube

and he's really happy and really energize and doing that and like sort of hanging out with all the people I used to hang out with it and all the things I found too difficult to handle like they're getting recognised and then that you know sort of watching him embrace spins me out I'm just like oh I'm crap I'm crap compared to him and I start like comparing myself to him and to other YouTubers and I just get really spun

do I have depression because I've had a bad day for like three months now From what you've just said, there's so many places I'd like to be able to unpack with you. Let's do it, mate. Now, when you say it spun you out because you use that term. I love that phrase. Yeah. What does that mean in action for you to be spun out? I guess it's losing a sight of yourself and your needs and what's truly important to you.

And it's, I think, I guess it's getting caught up so much in the surface layer of stuff. Like for me, I can get really jealous of a YouTuber and that's what I think about. But really what I'm meaning is, you know, I'm really grieving. And I'm like placing all this grief for my family and my mates and my dead pal. I'm sort of shifting all the blame onto something else. And I think spinning out is, for me, I feel very whole when I sort of wipe off all that dirt. And I go, look, here's what happened. I'm sad about these things.

I'm going to have a conversation like this. Like, this is honest. But when I'm by myself and I'm tired, I'm not really going to think about all these hard things. I might get really disproportionately annoyed or pissed off at something because sort of displacement, I think, really. Right. So that for me is what being spun out is. And what I like about this conversation is for us all to understand that we all spin out. You know, we all, we all hit these moments.

Yeah. But if we're consistently feeling this way, then to your point is, okay, it's something more. Yeah. And you said, so were you diagnosed with moderate to mild depression? Yeah. Okay. So being diagnosed with that, did you feel like that? That was a weight off my chest.

It was. Okay. And why so? Because I was like, oh, it's not even my fault. Well, it's like, you know, before I beat myself up. And I was like, oh, actually, it's medical now. And it felt a lot more, a lot better. And I started antidepressants, which had been great.

Well, they've been good. But it basically just means when I have a bad day, I only reached like an 8 out of 10, not like a 10 out of 10, you know. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And then what else has helped you with your depression? Because I know that there's medication.

There's therapy you talked about. Yeah. You're in therapy. There's exercise, you know. People do a lot of exercise. Yeah. Okay. That's really helped.

Reading books as and finding the right books for me. Honestly, number one is like connecting with people. I'm like love and like, you know, having these chats with my friends. and family has really, really helped me. I've really, my relationship with my audience has deeply changed. Like reading the Bruce Springsteen books, you know, and him from a time where there's no internet, there's no numbers, it's a connection between you and people,

has really, and doing these tours and understanding the people and making slowly more and more videos that are more vulnerable and about mental health. And like, when you're lonely, you feel like you, you're the only one that feels like that. And then you put it out there, it was really scary and I sometimes think you know compromisingly vulnerable to put myself in that

but I got to this relationship with the internet where I didn't check anything I didn't go online at all and um yeah that's sort of expressing that to my audience because I think what a lot of YouTubers do which is what because YouTube is for young people like you have an audience of you know five to 21 year olds and then you kind of lose your audience and get the next wave of five to 21 year olds.

So I've really made an effort to those people who were watching me five years ago connect with them and prioritise them. And, you know, that's became such a special relationship to me. And when I hold, I think about it so much. Yes. And even though obviously, because they all have jobs now and that, like, there's so much less of them. But that's what's, they're the most important to me.

And obviously anyone's welcome to get into me. But I learned that from Springsteen, who has a relationship with his audience. that spans 30, 40 years. I want that. Yeah. I want these people to... This became just deeply, deeply important to me. And also the issues, man.

Like, that they all... All my friends have felt something with depression and anxiety. And all my audience have felt lonely. And I've had people tell me shit, like, I was about to kill myself, and then you went live. And at first, you hear that when you're younger and you go, wow, that's really moving. That's great.

My streams are good. But then now I've been at the point where I've been depressed. And I'm like, what? And I just feel this overwhelming sense of like responsibility to not fuck around. Yeah. It's how, you know, when you think about it, if you're willing to go there, sure. In that state of depression, how difficult did it get when you think of the most challenging time for you?

It just got, I never wanted to like top myself or self-harm. But like, I just, I still fall into it. I just felt like I'm nothing. And I was just like I'm, and I'd find a YouTuber or problem to compare myself to. I just go, no one loves, I'm shit. I'm honestly crap. And I found that so hard to, I really believed it. And then I'd go and do a stand-up performance.

And I go, wow, this is amazing. There's people out here for me. This is amazing. I go, I'm crap again. I just had nothing to, because, you know, when I was with Molly, we'd like have a chat, and then she'd sort of stop me from spiraling out. But I wouldn't have that one. by myself.

I just like feel like I'm not enough. I just really didn't feel enough ever. I felt like I'm underachieving and like I'm doing shit wrong and that like I don't know what I want and I don't know who I should be

because I'm like 21 I don't think you're meant to know but when you have the pressure on and also you know I'm like sensitive that like I really care about news I did for years and then when you have loads of people online telling you you fell off like that was stinging me to bits

I'm really, really, as years I've gone by, like, it can really bother me. So I have to, like, not look at it. I really connect with people on, like, a deep way. Yes. Very quick. So you got those, and do you still get any of those comments? Yeah.

Online. Yeah. I'm just like, oh. But I'm more attuned to myself now. But I think what it is ultimately is, and this is what I've had to think for a long time, it is, you know, it like her, it stung when YouTubers, you know, I stopped being the biggest YouTuber.

and you kind of realize a lot of those relationships you form when you're a kid are more business-oriented than you thought they were and people don't give you as much time when you're not as popular, that stung a bit. And that I realized that at like beginning of 2024 and 2023, and that was something I was dealing with. It stung, but I moved on.

And I didn't have that community so much anymore and that stuff. But when you lose, you know, your best mates and your parents and your girlfriend and your home, those like scars have learned such a big deal, because it's all you've got left to cling on to. And I think ultimately I know

if I really wanted to and put my ass into it, I could like get back to getting millions of views and videos and like I do, it's in my control how to be popular. I can't get my parents are never going to get back together.

And I'm never going to feel like how I did when I was 16, you know, simple and light. And it's not even that I want views and subs. It's why I feel how I used to feel. Yes. You know? Yes. And even if now I did,

they wouldn't it doesn't do anything so it's that illusion of you know it's and it's I compare it to a casino you know and you go into a casino and you just see all these people like hoping that if they hit the jackpocket it'll fix some empty space inside them and for me I think like I almost feel like I've googled a lot about like attention addiction and if that's a thing because I feel like I probably have that of like with YouTube and those numbers that like I need it. And like you get that high and then it starts fading and then you just keep doing it to try and get that high back. And it's only after it's been a few years. I'm like, oh, that was getting a bit addicty.

Like, do you know what I mean? Yes. I wonder what's your opinion now because I know that you've been very vocal on this now. And I thank you for being vocal on this topic of for young people now who are using social media in particular. how to now not fall victim to what it sounds like you fell victim to. Yeah. But I feel like like I was falling victim to it before, is it? Like I was posting photos on Instagram and noticing the cool kids have 30 likes and I had 18

and then getting excited when I had 20 and annoyed when I have 12. I feel like everyone is like famous in their own way. No one's making stuff for them. You're making it for the. response and that's not how the world used to be and I don't yeah so what do we do like what what advice would you give to a 17 year old right now I would say the things that make you happy like do them and it can be anything you know that could be drawing or making a video game soundtrack or interior design or any creative outlet that works for you and try new ones and don't do it with any

pressure for what's going to come. Just do it because you can love it. Yes. And like, if you can start to build up goals and the goals being based on, you know, having a mission, I think is really, at least really works for me. And I guess my goal now is to sort of try and alter my, you know, because for a long time, my mission was simply get YouTube rank. Right.

And then it was get 10 million subs. And it was, I don't know. And now it's, right, I can see there's all these people out there that are feeling lonely and lost and depressed and me too. I want to, like, who are lacking, like, joy. I want to, like, give them understanding and, like, I guess, share joy through laughter. And after, for me, having those experiences being at comedy nights, like, 10 people, or Bruce performances,

and understanding, oh, my God, this is life-changing. That is, that actually changed my life. That helped me. That was an experience. I couldn't have. Like, cool, that. I want to do that. That's the most important thing.

So whenever I'm, like, thinking about views, I have to remind myself. no that's not that doesn't really help my mission right now like and that's really difficult yes yes because I'm so like programmed yeah I could see it it's interesting I can see the tension in you right now yeah of your kind of battling the old you I really and that was and there was a long time where I felt so inferior to the old me so I was like he got 10 million views and I don't and I just it's been a real weird battle yeah you know so when you think today yeah are you proud of yourself yeah really proud Do you want me to go So you look to me like

No I'm just Just letting it sit in Do you feel But I won't I'm proud of myself right now And after an hour of a talk And I've just remembered About all the things I've done

But when I'm by myself in a car All first thing in the morning I'm probably not No Because you just get so like myopic You just forget I just like forget about anything I've done Or any achievements I've done

Or any friends I have And all I'm thinking about is right now And I'm like I'm not doing nothing And I'm yeah Do you? Do you feel safe? Yeah, safer than I felt in years, yeah. Okay, okay.

Do you feel like those around you are proud of you? Yeah, yeah, very. My mates are great and my family. Okay. On that note, I have a little surprise for you. I am. Can I, can I, can I play something for you? Yeah, sure.

All right. Take a listen to this. Hey, babes, it's your mother here. I just wanted to say, I love you so much and I'm so proud of you. Of course, I'm proud of all the stuff you've achieved, but I'm even more proud and wildly impressed at what a kind, sensitive, thoughtful and emotionally literate man you've grown up to be. All the brilliant accolades you've achieved aren't just due to look and talent,

it's the focus and the hard work and the authenticity that's super-duper impressive. And I think that calm self-acceptance is one of the reasons that you're so accepting of other people and you're so interested in learning about other people in their lives. It's a lovely mix of empathy and curiosity. I feel these hard times have brought us even closer and even more open in how we communicate and secure that we can disagree too. I'm so proud that you're becoming a positive role model for young men and how the way you are, your thoughtfulness, your vulnerability, your kindness is leading by example. You cut through a lot of the noise and always, all that bullshit and you speak to your generation.

I love you babes, you big deft twat. Oh, thanks, mum. Oh, that, wow. I'm really not good at getting compliments. I started like squirming. I was like, oh, I feel like my mum when she would be at the school gates and would go, love you, at the top of the lungs. That was like, that, but to the world, I actually,

I was like the sweetest and most, like, excruciating thing at the same time. You did. I was actually like, oh, please. I swear down British people. they're not made to get compliments. Oh my gosh. I love that. She's a great mum.

Do you know what I mean? You can see what I mean about growing up in a household and just to met like that. That is amazing if she speaks to me like that. I take that for granted less and less as I'm getting older. Yeah, exactly.

I think this is what happens as we get older is we understand what love really is. Do I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God. I think, you know, it's interesting. I got chills at certain parts of that

because in what she just said, she echoed the story that you just gave us. Yeah. You know, the highs and the long. My mom's sick, man. Oh, hello, my mom. She's so good. Yeah.

Yeah. So, um, one place within the kind of this category of mental health that we didn't yet talk about, but you've definitely mentioned throughout this is anxiety. What I've noticed with me trying to deal with anxiety is, you know, in essence, it's like, your amygdala in your brain, right? Essentially being in the state of fear all the time.

Yeah. And when you're in fear all the time, it throws everything off. Yeah. Like you can't focus, you can't emotionally connect. And it's one of those where I'm consciously trying to talk myself out of it, but I see how it's almost destroyed many good things in my life.

Yeah, me too. So, yeah, so how is it important? How has anxiety impacted you? It's just this little... I mean, it's impacted me in a lot of ways, but the one that's been the most prominent is it's just a little shit voice in my head that's just being a prick all the time.

I describe it as like a stranger in my head. I don't even know. It's like it steers me away from my needs and my wants and what I actually want to do and goes, yeah, but here's what you should do. Here's what you should do. Do this. Trust me.

Do this. Please do this. Now, do this. Like, and then if I don't, It's like, we all break, you're a shit. Why are you not doing that? You're in our bed. And like, I've really, really, as I say, felt it in the past few years with like, jealousy and then having to go, and sometimes I've given into that.

I've made videos that I know are not as good as I could have made because I thought these will get more views. And if I get more views, then I'll get more views. Then I'll feel happy. Then I'll feel happy. And I won't be able to worry. But as long as I get, and it's like, no, obviously you won't feel happy. It's a lot about, we've been reading it in this ADHD book.

It says, you know, you should like, if you're feeling pain, pain, that's all right. You need to focus on what makes you feel good, whereas I think what anxiety does is makes you focus on what will stop the pain. And so for me, a lot of things that stop the pain is getting hit a dopamine from getting a load of views. Or, it's so stupid. I hate how, like, unground that.

I actually feel like a knobbed saying it. But, like, I hate that, like, that is such a prominent thing in my life. That, like, I just think it's ridiculous because I know it's not true. But, you know. when I meet all these people, you know, I do this gig called like Tomaddy to like 90 people. It's the most special time of my month when I'm on there. And when I'm doing my, you know, I met like 100 people every show of like a meet and greet. And it was just so, I connect with people so quick.

I love it. And I love hearing people stories. And I like, I genuinely like the people who my audience, I have so much love for them. And not in like a because I know them way, but like when I meet them and I chat with them, they're my people. Yes. And it's this amazing thing where like, I can't believe. Because you don't feel real until it is real. Yes.

I don't feel real until someone's coming up to me being like, I got diagnosed with depression the same week as you, this helped. I just don't, like, even the fact that I feel like I'm just chatting to you now and maybe one or two people to hear this, the idea that like 100,000 people will hear my, is that mental. It just spins me out. You know what's interesting.

I forget people hearing this, yeah. Yeah, we were talking. I'm like, I forget, man. Is that when people tell their story, typically, what they try to do is they try to create this, this arc that ends on this high. Like, I'm the greatest as a result of this. Yeah, not me, mate.

You actually... You actually took us up to the pinnacle of the mountain. Yeah. And then you brought us down and you said, this is me. But I hope in a couple of years when my stand-up is better, because I'm nowhere near as good as I want to be. But when I have a tight hour that's properly me as Tom Simons, you know what I mean?

and it's like coming from my art, I think that is, I'll really like, that'll be my high because I'll be connecting with people again. It'll be true and I'll be as good. But I'm very happy for the next couple years to be a lot more niche and just like, let people grow with me. I mean, you know, you don't always have to be at a high.

But I think you actually are in the high zone now because you resonate the most now. That's good. Your story, everything that you mentioned, feeling crap days, having the anxiety, you know, all of the, I feel all of those. Really?

You know, I can resonate with that. I can't resonate with having 10 million subs. Me neither. You know, but I can resonate with comparing myself to someone, even in this day. Yeah. It happens all the time, you know. On the podcast chart, I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, we should be higher. We should do this.

It's this constant comparing. And when we compare, we despair. At some point, you have to go, who am I doing this for? Because I'm not doing this for me anymore. and do this because I'm scared. Exactly. Do you know what's mad? And this is what spins me out.

It's the exact same thing I felt at the school. It's that same thing of like the cool kids. And now I feel like the cool kids are over there and I'm not one of the cool kids anymore. And all I need to remember is, yeah, but I never wanted to be in the first place. I just want to be around Freddie and my mates and having a good laugh.

It's funny. Recently I've ended up one of my mates, they have two little siblings who like, I was teaching them to play Minecraft. I was like, this is the most amazing thing. And I was just like, oh, I forgot what it's like to be a kid. You almost learn more from them than they do from you. But I think I've put way, way too much weight on my career

and setting my life the past few years. Yeah. It's been nice these past six months to really, after the tour, to go, right, let's sort my life out. Like I have been, I've been going gym, and I've been making my house nice. I bought myself a nice painting from a room. And I've been, my mum's been coming down from Nottingham

and she's helping me do my house. And my two roommates are moving out now. So I'm going to have this house for myself But also I'm going to be able to make it completely mine I bought a nice piano And finally with this money I'm starting to like go right I'm going to buy piano Because that's all I want is a piano

I'm going to buy a really nice painting That reminds me at home And I'm just like slowly And I always ring my mum before I spend any money Because I get really stressed spending money I hate it I hate spending money But like I probably need to figure out That relationship with that

But yeah There's definitely a tenuous relationship Yeah I know I don't need to like I know I really don't like need to be, I also would really like to give the charity more, but I just am like, no, I don't want to spend money. And I really feel bad about that. I'd really like to figure that out.

And also start, like, raising some more money for charity and stuff. Because I've done a lot of work with psychoma now since Technopass. I've raised like a couple hundred grand for them. That was amazing. But I'd like to do a lot. I feel like I'm not doing enough. Yeah. You know what, Tom, we're going to need a part two.

Yeah, you're going to need a part two. In particular, because you are swimming across to that night. next boat. And in a couple years, this will be well sick. Yeah. So when you are in that boat, we're going to need to have another conversation. Yeah. And you know what I most appreciate about this time with you is that you are telling, you are describing how I believe most of us feel. Oh, that's good. There is like, I always say like there's the, the Instagram photo, and then there's the, there's actually what happened. Yeah. To get to. to that Instagram photo, what oftentimes we hear on television, a lot of pods is the Instagram

photo. Oh, yeah, not me, mate. What you just explained to us is actually what is happening. Yeah. And there's a final question I have, but one more before the final. Yeah. And it's funny. Sorry.

Oh, no, no, please. But like, I literally chat like this if anyone. Like, I was in L.A. before my L.A. show and these two viewers came up to me. And they were like, oh, we love your podcast and your videos. And I was chatting with them. I just chat them for like an hour and a half. I just told them all this as well

because they just were asking about them and I asked about them and I love connecting with people and I do it. This is what my mate said to me today is that I'm so good at doing it so deeply so quick but I think it's because I'm all right

being vulnerable of around people. I have no like because I think comedy teaches you to embrace your vulnerabilities and I've gotten a lot better at that so I'm happy just like being open. Yes. I sort of love it.

It's very empowering when you decide I'm going to be open about everything and I think all my mates having all these secrets and it all coming out My response to that was, I'm not going to have any secrets.

It's really scary, but also it feels like actually empowering. It is, it is. So how would you, today, how would you describe yourself today in terms of how you feel within yourself? Who is Tom today? Oh, well, I don't know. I like hanging out with who am, I'm me. I'm like having fun.

I like relaxing and being in nature. and I like really, really like performance. I really deeply care about art. I love my family. I love my friends. I love my audience. I love chatting.

I love chatting the most. That's the thing. I love chatting. It's always been my number one favorite thing is chatting. I've done it since I was little. Yeah. Notice you didn't say anything about YouTube.

Yeah. And that would have been everything that you would have said just five years ago. Yeah. That's interesting. That's interesting. I think it's good progress.

Yes. I'm getting there. You're getting there. All right. So the last question. Everyone gets this. All right. And that is, if you think through all of the incredible conversations you've had throughout

life so far. Yeah. What was the most memorable conversation? Who was it with? And what did you learn? Probably like sat next to Freddy by that river in Wales. That was the best one, I think. Or after I did my palladium show, like me and my ex-in-Molly, we just sat and chatted.

And what in that conversation say with Molly after the Palladium gig? Yeah. What was your lesson? What did you take away from that? Just like, and same with Freddie really. And same with like, you know, I've been like seeing someone else and I've had lots of chats with them now. And you just go, oh yeah, this is what's important. Like this, you know, people, human, love.

It's love at the end of the day. Love is number one. which sounds a bit hippie, but you know what I mean? Like, you're not going to, the reason YouTube is because I loved it. Stand up to someone because I loved it. And that's the thing that will pull you out of anything,

is if you love a person and you can, and love and connection, really. And also nature, like the three best things, man. So if you love some it, you know. And that, and with Freddie. And also, I've had a million chats with my mum and me and my dad always have these long drives and have amazing long chats. Me and my mum always stay up late

whenever I go to Nottingham and chat for like hours. Like, just a just a, over years I've just had so many phenomenal chats. Even people who I'm not fond of now, like, I've had such great connections with and such long chats and I don't take them for granted. And really, I'd say, it's that really.

And it's that, you know, that's the most important thing in the world. It's connecting with people. Because that's what, what's, you know, and this is why I remind myself, like, none of it's coming with you. You know, when you die. And when Teno passed, I remember him getting 100 million views on that video and wanted to go

texting him, Teno, you've got 100 million views. on your video and he's not he's not gonna see that he's dead as romantic of an idea as i is i do think it's just like you have to stay to your heart because there's no point otherwise and your heart's going to change and grow and you are but all the times in my life that have been the best and when i've you know cleared away all the bullshit and just tried to be myself you know what i thank you the most for yeah is i thank you for being a voice that says it's okay not to be okay yeah course why in it Why fib? Yeah.

What was the point in fibbing? I mean, but, but that's, that is predominantly what I think is, is, uh, what you see today. And I, uh, when I monitor a lot of the content for my boys, uh, it's, I mean, most of it is horrendous. It's terrible. It's atrocious, right? Um, but it is not allowing them, I think, to understand that it is okay, not to be okay. Yeah. And I, and I thank you for being a voice that stands on that.

I just think you have to tape. You just, you know, Andrew Tate and all these lads like, you just get all these people just with these skewed, horrible views of what it means to be a bloke, or what it means to even be a person, and all these ideas. And it's like, the world's turned into a casino. Because the first time, in Australia, I went to this casino. And that was when I was like, oh, this is YouTube. This is how I can voice it. And it's that idea that if you win a jackpot, it's going to solve some emptiness in you. And it's not.

And that thing I felt at school of not fitting in and not feeling cool, it's been seven years. I still feel it. It hasn't solved anything. I've just been like putting it off. And the way to solve it is, you know, those moments that you actually care about and that you love and, you know, and you're never going to be on your deathbed. Like, you know what, though?

I'm glad I was cool. Like, no, you want to be glad that you had love and had a happy time. Absolutely. And you'll remember those times and those moments with your family and your friends, in particular, the people that you love most. Yeah. Yeah. So that is it.

That is it. We'll have a part two when you're in the new boat. Thank you. I think the new boat is going to be like a yacht. for you. Well, you never know. I'll be good. Yeah.

I think you'd be good with a rowboat, actually. Yeah, yeah. But I could see you. I could see you in something else. But man, I mean, thank you so much for having me. This has been such a wonderful platform to get across how I've been feeling. And you've directed me, you know, you made me feel so comfortable and warm. And I never would be able to say this on my podcast or on my videos.

And you've got this out of me in a way, I'll probably sit in the car on the back and go, then I fucking really talk about being jealous of my show screen. I think, am I stupid? Why would I say that? You know, this was the most consistently you. I think I've ever seen you. Wow, thank you. And this is now me knowing you and me researching you.

Yeah. This is you. I think we have seen Tom, Simons. Oh, yeah, man. We've seen you fully. You've seen me. Yes. Yeah.

And you know what? And we like what we see. I like what I see. Oh, that's good. Imagine you like, yeah, And you're a twat. And you're a nobber. And you are a dick.

Yeah. No, well, thank you. As he said, not Tommy in it. It was Tom today. I know that among my sons and their friends, that kind of gossip of who's done what on the dream SMP is of high importance to them. That was a question that they wanted me to ask.

I thought Tom was quite respectful about, some of the controversies facing some of the other YouTubers, but it's clear that he has distanced himself from those and doesn't have any friendships, it appears, among that group anymore. I love Tom's vulnerability. What I see time and time again from reading about comedians is how comedy is born from a place of pain, place of trauma. And this is, I think, what's happening with Tom.

I think Tom will be an incredible comedian. Not just because I think he's a funny guy, right? Just naturally funny. But because he's committed to being vulnerable about life. And that's what we want from our comedians. You know, I think we want to see a reflection of life through their experience. And that's what Tom is providing. Where do you think Tommy and it will be in?

in 21 years time. In 21 years. Oh my gosh. He'll only be 40, he'll be 42 years old. I don't know where Tommy and it will be in 21 years, but my hope is that he's happy. You can't reason with the sun.

Trust us. We've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's Omnyshade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. Sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your summer at Columbia.com to spend more time outside and less time slathering on all loation. You're welcome. Columbia, engineered for whatever.

Relax and let Ralph's delivery handle your grocery shopping this week. We start with only the freshest items, then review your list and carefully choose each one. Then we pack it all up and deliver it in as little as 30 minutes. So you can feel confident it's what you're you ordered. Fresh groceries, your way with Ralph's delivery and pickup. Get free delivery during online deal days, plus $30 off your first online order. Ralph's, fresh for everyone.