We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Trewley Precious: The Real Cost of Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives

Episode Date: August 4, 2026

Reality TV star Trewley Precious opens up about the strict family rules that shaped her childhood, the freedoms her brothers had that she did not, and the personal cost of sharing her life publicly. The Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives star and TikTok creator reflects on growing up with both Gypsy and non-Gypsy heritage, and the criticism she received after telling her family’s story. Raised on a council estate by a Gypsy father and non-Gypsy mother, Trewley explains why her estate became her safe space and how fear, loyalty and survival shaped her understanding of love and freedom. She also speaks candidly about leaving an unhealthy relationship, losing her father to cancer and entering Tempting Fortune during one of the most painful periods of her life. Trewley reveals why winning the show gave her the validation she had always wanted from her dad. Trewley explains how she pitched Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives herself, why the series sparked debate and why it represents her family’s experience rather than every Gypsy woman’s story. Raw, funny and deeply personal, this is a conversation about identity, grief, cultural pressure and breaking generational cycles. Trewley Precious, We Need To Talk This episode includes discussion of mental health. If you’re struggling, remember you’re not alone. You can find help and resources at the links below: MIND:  https://linkly.link/2dx8b Samaritans: https://linkly.link/2dx7Z    CALM: https://linkly.link/2dx8H    Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk   https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod   Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Follow Trewley here: https://www.instagram.com/trewleyprecious https://www.tiktok.com/@itstrewleyprecious (00:00) Intro (03:18) Trewley's Essex Childhood (07:01) Trewley's Gypsy Heritage (19:07) Paul Shows Trewley a Childhood Photo (21:40) Strict Gypsy Traditions and Family Rules (33:58) How Trewley Started Creating Content (50:38) Filming Tempting Fortune (54:34) Trewley's Dad's Death Impacted Her Family and the Gypsy Community (58:31) Shopify Ad (59:33) How Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives Was Created (01:01:33) The Positive Impact of Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives (01:06:07) Trewley Reads an Emotional Letter (01:10:23) Behind the Scenes of Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives (01:17:58) Trewley's Siblings on Filming Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives (01:25:56) Dating and Relationships (01:30:09) Mission to Change Perceptions of the Gypsy Community (01:39:08) Most Memorable Conversation (01:43:40) Paul's Takeaways Sponsored by: Shopify: www.shopify.co.uk/needtotalk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Your family was on secret lives of Gypsy Wives. Are you the youngest? I'm the youngest and the prettiest, Paul. You've got to act up at him. Sorry, it don't count. I'll let you re-say that. Just right, Paul, we're friends. When you think about it, though, what has this show cost you and your family?

God, who the fuck am I? I am a content crate. I'm actually fresh. Get to know. You and your sisters, you say you're just like the Kardashians, but what? Fat, broken on benefits. And so then, can we unpack your life? Maybe unpack it.

Be prepared. Some people hear the word gypsy and straight. they just make some caravan jokes. We don't all live in caravans, you know. You know, I've lived on my cancerous date me whole life. I always had the idea of loving videos. Also, it was like, Dad, I'm proving this. Like, validate me, love me, love before you go.

So I had to learn how to perform and turn the pain into power. What about you and dating? What about it? I think when you've been brought up in fear and anger, you don't see it as fear and anger. You see it as home. So I just left him. A week later, I found out my dad's cancer's family.

Sorry, with all my mind's wrong. When we had to say bye, it's weird because I just said, I was telling him to go, but I was begging for him to stay. But that's what I want to represent. I want to represent them girls that didn't have a choice, that have been in survival their whole life. Truly, you're the type of person that comes around once every few years. Is there anything that you want to make sure we talk about in this conversation?

100%. I just want to make it clear. Look, pause with me for just a second. Today marks 100 episodes if we need to talk. And honestly, I just want to say thank you. Now, whether you've been with us every single week since day one or you just drop in when a guest catches your eye, I see you. I truly appreciate you.

Every comment, every share, every time you show up, it matters. We're building a really special community here. If you want to support what we're doing without spending a penny, please take a second and hit the follow button. It costs nothing, but it's a really special community here. it signals to the world that these conversations matter. Thank you for being on this journey with us. Now, let's get started.

I just basically binged the show. And the correct title of the show is... Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives. Secret Lives of Gypsy Wives, right? Very eye-grabbing, ear-grabbing. Very clever. Title, very clever, very clever. Lots of positive, but also lots of challenging commentary.

Very successful show, right? I enjoyed learning about you, your family, and your community through this project. When you think about it, though, what has this show cost you and your family? I feel like people are a bit late to the train. I've had this my whole life. So what it has cost me is a trigger. I feel triggered. I feel like I'm a little girl again

and I'm defending myself. My whole life, that's all I've ever had to do, is defend myself, what I am, like who I am, what's happened to me. And then showing people who I am of TikTok, people are offended. And I don't know why they would be because the show doesn't say the secret lies of all gypsy wives.

It's about me and my family, and I don't know why they're offended by truth. My dad is full, my mum is half, and I am from a poor estate. I'm not going to pretend I'm from somewhere posh. Like, how would that work? You know what I mean? Yes, yes.

Can we then unpack your life? Baby, unpack it. Be prepared? You know, I can't wait to walk down this path with you. Cool. Right. And so let's go back to where you were born. So I was born in Colchester Hospital.

I was two months early and my mum had an abruption and she hemorrhaged and she almost died and I almost died that the doctor said that if she was in the car park when she come we both have been dead

so from birth I was two months early I didn't have a lot of oxygen so they tell my mum she's going to be very special like mentally and physically she'd probably not be able to walk and talk and obviously when you get told that by a professional I can only

like my mum is still on my birthday is really weird to me. It's because of the PTSD she's obviously having in that month of it happening. Can we talk about this? Yeah. All right, so this is, I didn't, I wasn't aware of this.

Yeah. So, all right, so are you the youngest? How many siblings are there? I'm the youngest and the prettiest, Paul. You've got out of that in. Sorry, it don't count. Paul. I'm sorry.

I'll let you re-say that. It's all right. It's all right, Paul. We're friends. Well, I mean, you know. I still waiting for you to say it, Paul. Well, I mean, I haven't, actually, I think your brother is the prettiest.

Are you actually why not? You're lucky I can't say what I can say, Paul. All right, so you are, according to you, you are the prettiest. I've seen it all... According to. Oh, I was getting real passionate. How did it, Paul?

Paul, are you the people in my hate comments? You and you're crow? No, no. I just want to say, I've seen so many of your sisters. I think they are, they're all attractive. Yeah, but I'm poor. Like, it's like, I'm not cussing. They're stunning, but I'm stunning at.

All right. Sorry. I'm only joking, my way. I know. I know. I know. So are you the youngest as well? Yeah, I'm the youngest.

I've got nine sisters and I've got three brothers. Okay, so nine sisters, three brothers. So what do you believe the impact of you being, it was an early childbirth, two months? How do you think that impacted your mother and your father? So my dad, God rest his soul, already lost a child when he was younger. she was two, she died a meningitis, bless her. And he was already mentally unwell from this, obviously, of course, and very protective on what we did.

That's why even more the rules were so like, you just feel like you're in a prison, this type of thing. And then my mum was just so traumatised by obviously the birth. Yeah, it could have been a fatal birth. And I think that's how when you are just always traumatised, I think you just live in that anxiety or fear all the time. Yes. And like I go, I'm going shop, she'll go, be careful.

I've heard people are kidnapping people from the shop. And I'm like, you're making that up. That is not real. Yeah, yeah. It's just pure anxiety of her bird being at the nest, is how I could describe it. And I would also, and then you're her last child. Yeah. So she didn't have any more children.

No. Did, was that part? Oh, that was the reason. Yeah, she always says, I'd have had another seven children, I think. I couldn't. She went to the fort. She went all that was going in my brain, who's going to look after my kids? I'm going to die, and my kids aren't going to have a mum.

Okay, all right. And we'll get into your parents, but just as far as where you're from, so that was Colchester where you were born, and then where were you then raised as a little girl? My estate, like near Clacton. It's very, like, you know, a bit rundown and that. But you've got loyal people there, lovely people there. I don't see it as run down, though.

I know it sounds silly because I know from the eye, obviously it is. But to me, they've got what wealth I couldn't buy. lawy, they've got love, they've got time, they've got effort, I couldn't buy that. Paul, you're a very successful man. Could you buy that? No. Right. I mean, one is I appreciate you saying I'm successful. You are, of course, well. I mean, you know, honestly, I always look at myself as trying to be. Yeah, so. And I can see that same hunger and hustle. Where did yours come from, though? I think it comes from where the same thing, probably where it comes from for you, where I was born.

You know, I was born in Jamaica, Queens. Sorry. Oh, wait. Put your back, though. Go on. I love it. Every time I say Jamaica Queens, I want you to do that. So, you know, I was born in Jamaica Queens.

And then, you know, in Jamaica Queens, there you go. I was testing you. I was testing. I was testing. But it was very humble. I think in the UK, it would be called a council estate. in the United States, it's called housing projects.

Oh, the projects. The projects. Right. And I think a lot of my drive came from seeing, not just seeing people not make it, but then also seeing people make it. But seeing people make it in different ways. How would you describe the area that you grew up in?

To like a stranger, like how I would describe it. Yes. Well, besides the only thing, obvious, like the obvious, like, deprived and stuff. I'd say loyal, kind, funny, different paths of life. I think that's why I'm really grateful for it because I wasn't the only gypsies on the,

we're not the only gypsies on the estate. So, yes, there was some gypsies on the estate. There's also some gorgeous, which means, like, non-gypsies on the estate. There was, everyone just comes from different paths of life. Everyone's going through a different struggle. And I know it sounds weird, but I respected that. Okay.

I didn't have that weird judgment that people would think I would have. If anything, I admire the struggle, to be honest. All right. So you just said something which also is a term that I didn't know until preparing for you to come in is you said there were some gorgeous. Yeah, gorgeous. So what's that terminology? So that just means like non-gypsy, that's someone that isn't one.

Like they'd say you're a good, yeah, but it can be used bad. That's why I don't really, I've never used. bad. I always say, oh, my mum's a gorgeous because she's a non-gypsy, but people can use it in a racist term if they want. Ah, okay. I didn't realize that, too. All right. But it's alright, though, you haven't been. Don't think, like, you have, you ain't. Okay. Like, you can go, oh, she's a gorgeous. That's just stating she's a non-jipsy.

But if you were like, you dirty, that's, you're just giving it, that they're not like you from your bloodline. All right. I follow you. I follow you. And so then you said your father is a... Gypsy. Is a gypsy. Yeah. So he, so now, you're... So now, help me with this part too, and I love to talk even more about this later,

is gypsies, travelers, is it Romani and Roman-I as well? Yeah, but they're gypsies. Okay. And a lot of travellers are Irish. It's about just where they come from, like in their backgrounds. They're just different. But I get why people get confused because they do similar things. But my dad was a gypsy.

He was born in 1953. and he was born in a wagon, the side of the road, and the woods, like, near the woods. You know, he had a very, very strict and poor upbringing. His dad wasn't around. She was a very hardworking woman. She'd worked the fields. He'd worked the fields, but he had a very different,

him and my mom had very different upbringings. My dad was this, like, a strict gypsy boy could go out. He was first nicked when he was 10, 10 years old, for street robbery. Wow, okay. Imagine that, being 10 year old, having to go rob someone because you're hungry. And that's what I'm saying.

I've just been, I've been raised by survivors. And then people were angry at that, which is very confusing. Yeah. Because I admire them. I think they're insane. Like, all right, I'm not saying that they were, you know, you know, top tier. You know, you could never fault them for anything. But did they do the best with what they had?

Yeah. Yes. 100%. Your mother and your father, they met in what the 70s must have been. No, in the 80s. Oh, in the 80s? Mm-hmm. Okay.

So they meet in the 80s. I would imagine, though, that to marry outside, for your father to marry outside of his community, would have been a no-no. Yeah, absolutely. Of course it was. So how is it that they met and fell in love? To be honest with you, my dad had other wives before my mum, right? And obviously he met my mom whatever. My mom, you know, no matter of being a gorgeous, she is a very prideful, strong, independent, wouldn't take shit, like women, my dad was obsessed with my mom.

My dad loved my mom no matter of being a, like not being a traveling woman or anything like that. Because she still had traits of one. And he married other traveling women before that. They obviously didn't do a good job as my mom did, did they? Because he stayed with her. So I'm getting defensive about my mom, sorry. So you say your mom had traits of a traveler woman? Yeah, like ticks.

That's what I'd call them, like little ticks that I think, as a travelling man you would like, like, my mum was very poor deprived, counsell estate kid, yeah. But anything she got, she'd wash and scrub clean, keep it nice and pristine, what she did have, even if she had to walk again the next day, she'd wash it and scrub it, always been very like, this is my home, this is my safe place. And, you know, it's actually quite nice. Obviously I miss my dad every day, but the one thing I do, I actually do love, I feel like

my mum's a little bit calmer. Like, if there's a bit of mess, like Paul, even if ever this drink here. My mum would have lifted that up, wiped all it down, scrub the table, breathe. Like, do you know how hard it is being with someone. It's so manic, manic, manic, manic, manic, just calmed out. And now, oh, she ain't got to press, not impressed my dad because she was with him, but, like, she can chill a bit. It's not, you know, you're not going to have a man coming and going, why aren't that done, why aren't that done? Why aren't that done? You can just be women and be chill a bit. Okay, I see it. I see it. So, so they fell in love then in the 80s. How hard was it for them to love each other?

Because, you know, were their families in support of them being together? That's a very good question you just asked. When you said, how hard was it for them to love each other? So my whole life growing up, like, mom's side hated dads, dad's side hating moms. That was kind of it. And we're the product of both. And we'd get it from both. You know, we weren't good enough for them and we weren't good enough for them.

so I just had to create my own lane but my dad did like did love my mum like I can't say that and my dad was a very I'm not talking about on him I love him dearly with everything I've missed him terribly

he obviously wasn't mentally well and he wasn't my whole life and but and after you lose a child I feel like you could only love another child as much as you can until you're so scared of them being taken from you but he loved my mum

like with no doubt in my head Yeah. But can we explore their love? Because I think our parents' love often impacts how we view love, how we view sacrifice. And what I keep going back to is I know from all the research I've read that when women are in relationships where their family does not support it, then separation and divorce is abnormally high. And so in the 80s for your mother to be in a relationship with someone who is from a different community and her family doesn't support that person or their family, it must be incredibly hard for her. Those circumstances must be very hard for her. I think that's why I'm so defensive over her

because I wouldn't let no one say what they've ever said to her when I went here. It's not happening. I can't have that. I'm not having... My mother is a good woman, a very good woman. And, like... Sorry, I don't know my eyes were in. But just...

Having people say about her... It's been really hard just because... Sorry, just because... The amount of time she's had to fight for who she is and just having to always fight for her. And you think I'm going to let strangers go on it. not happening. It's always been us against the world and it always will be.

And everyone jumping on this hate bandwagon, you're late, you're late to the party. This has been happening my whole life. Boring. Yorn. No, I can see it. I can, and, and, oh, yeah, there's too, you. Oh, you didn't tell me that earlier, did you?

You want my makeup streaming. All right, you told you, is that here in the comments? I didn't want you to put your makeup on that beautiful shirt there. Thanks, great. is the reason why I wanted us to begin here and spend a moment here is because your story precedes you. Right? And how you show up, how I show up,

the foundations of it begin with the people who created us, the circumstances they were under. And I can't help but think how hard it was for your mother. And to know that begins, I could begin to know you even more. You know? So clearly your mother had it hard.

Yeah, very hard. Sounds like your father had it hard from both sides. But it was really hard for me to, I do empathize with my dad and I do, but I feel like where he's so, I don't see him as this, like, flower. My mom's a flower to me.

Even though she's like an explosive, flower, but my dad was just this strong military, like that's how he reminded me, just so stern, so strict. So not that I couldn't have that empathy for him, but I couldn't explore that empathy for him because he wouldn't let me. I see it. I see it. You know, even on my dad's deathbed, this is how strong thing he was.

He's in his deathbed. Everyone's in the living room. All my brothers, all their friends who love dad and respect him. They're all between 30 and 40 upwards. They're all in there like this. And I hear one of them go, do you think we should leave? Do you think we should leave yet? you think dad would want us to leave or stay.

My dad, with all of his shrimp, on his deathbed, God bless him, went, leave, like this. I saw 10 men in their 30s and 40s go, all right, Sid, thanks for having us, kissed them on the head and went, thank you, bye. They all left, like children.

Because they're all programmed too. Wow. And they're in their 40s. And they're all, like, literally, it was like, if you went up now, and it was literally like a program and it was so weird to see, we all went, okay,

from the men, at least. Yes. That's what was weird. I was like, okay? Yes. But my dad had that authority. My dad was that man, and that's what's even harder when I read comments. That's what it's cost me.

Because you can say what you want about me. I don't have to validate my identity to use to no one's. Do not lie on my dad, though. He's not even here. Don't even... And the things they've said about my mum, my dad would start a war in the whole world over. Can I show you something? Yeah, of course.

Can I put some lip-clothes on? Oh, yeah. Sorry, I feel bored. Oh, no. Not to trigger you there, Carl. Sorry, I love you. Do you want some? Oh, no, no.

No, no, no, it's, what kind of lip loss do you use? Give me. It's my one. Oh, that's your one. Yeah. I'll talk to your wife. Does your wife like lip gloss on that? She does, she does.

This is the one that I saw on the show that you and your manager was at, yeah? Yeah. Yeah. I like it. Thank you. I want to get your wife on. You know, sometimes I put a little. Not gloss, but no, no.

Little bit. We'll cut that out. Yeah. All right, I want to show this to you. Yes, show me. And I want you to tell me roughly, because you're in this photo, so roughly how old you are in this photo

and what you could remember, if anything, about this photo, what was happening. It looked so healthy. I just love my dad. I just loved him. And some people might say, like, you know, disciplinary, however you would want to put that,

but I still loved him, he's all I know. Okay, so that's you and your dad. How old are you? Probably, like, four. Okay. Four. And how old do you think your dad is, roughly in that? He'd be 54.

Okay, there you go. And that's to your point? And that's another clash with my dad. He was older. So when he disciplined me, it'd be something really like, to the people I'm raised within this generation, It's weird.

He's not from this generation, he's from years ago. Yes. So I had this like real, like having to prove myself to my dad. I don't know, it's really hard because I just wanted him happy. I think he was a very sad man in pain from his loose, his door. And, you know, when you haven't been taught how to regulate or to communicate, communicate that can make you very angry. Yes.

An angry man. And I feel like I dealt with a lot of that. But I love him and I don't blame him. I love him dearly. I miss him every day and I know what his ways are and it weren't anyone else's upbringing. It was mine. So what can I say?

So how strict was your father? I couldn't. You couldn't say anything in front of him. He was so reactive. We couldn't say enough. think, you just couldn't, like, even if you were joking around swearing, you'd send you out the room. Or, like, even that, like, just like little rules.

Like, if we were sitting here now and say you're my daddy, if his friends walked in there, now, I'd have to get up on leave. I'm not allowed in the room with other men. Like, why would I be? It's like they see it. But then even now, I think, why am I getting kicked out of the room? Like, but I can only question this now my dad's dead. And even now, like, I wouldn't ask me mum this.

I wouldn't ask, because she's still here, I wouldn't disrespect her. But it doesn't make me, unless why people, I think some people are like, oh, he's so contradicting. No, my whole life has been contradicting. And I need to figure out what I like and what I don't like and what rules I do want and what rules I don't want. Yes, yes. So even at this age, you're wondering why certain rules apply to you.

Was there a – and I would imagine there's a double standard, probably to your brothers, not all the rules applied. The boys didn't have rules. Okay. It was just don't get nicked, don't fly. And if you do fight, don't get nicked. Like, there weren't no, like, right, you being at this time, don't be sleeping around, don't be doing drugs, don't be doing this, don't be,

it was nothing, it was literally for us, games, don't do this, don't breathe a certain way, don't burp, don't do this, don't laugh at dinner table, don't do this, don't do that, don't do that, the boys got little things, you know, the boys were at the table laughing, they'd get disciplined, if the boys said something rude, they'd get disciplined, like, all right, you've got a few disciplinaries, I just felt like I couldn't breathe, I couldn't even go, Do you know, I see some boys from the estate the other day who played football when I was little. And they said to me, True, I've got so many memories with your dad.

He was like, I remember I'd have to come. There'd be about 20 of us coming to the door to knock for you to prove that you were going out of everyone. And then your dad would go, you got 30 minutes. And then they'd shout, because where I'd play, it has to be in voice distance. Oh, I see. So he'd just shout, truly!

And they said, I just remember you going, boys, I've got to go, bye, and running home. Because I had to be in. Even though these boys younger than me, These girls are younger than me, and they haven't got a curfew. I see it. I see it. How did, and I can hold on to that.

Oh, yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. And I'll give you all these at the end. I don't think you're going to keep it, Paul. I might. You're going to start saying, I sure, Dad, is that? And that's my daughter.

It's my daughter right there. Now, those rules of you being within shouting distance, for example, Did those same rules apply to your sisters? Yes, but it was a little bit different because I feel like my sisters were older. So me being the youngest with Honey, my other sister, she's the second from youngest, it was really amplified on us.

Okay. Honey was a young mom, she was a young mom at 19, like married at 19, out, you know, whatever. And my sisters were a little bit older. One of my older sisters isn't married yet. She likes tattoos and this and that. I could not walk in. I know to everyone it's like contradictory,

but that is my life, like whether people like it or not. I could never walk in with a tattoo. Okay. Are you joking? Just because Ruby, does that mean I can? What does that mean? We've all got different expectations, and we have to fit that. Ruby was set expectations, and she moved that box.

She don't want to be in that box. She don't want to do that. Okay. You're 26, but quite honestly, you feel a lot more mature than 26 to me. And it wasn't until, you know, I was in my probably late 30s, early 40s, where I began to view my parents with more grace. Yeah. And to know that they did the best they could with what they had and what they knew.

And they grew up in different circumstances where they were more so, I think, focused on survival. It's interesting. A lot of people don't realize this about me is, but I think this is the circumstances I grew up in is I have a very hot fuse, hot cold. Yeah. So that's me at 18. up to that point, there you go, there you go. I would fight all the time.

Yeah. All the time. Anything would set me off? Not because you wanted to, though. Right, but I would fight all the time. But then I got to a place where I said, you know, I can't fight. Right, because the consequence of that is going to be, you know, I lose this project. My boys are out of school.

This happens to me. Yeah. And so it's responsibility. And I'm sure that responsibility, you're starting to get a lot of that right. Yeah, and it's hard because when my dad died, I said to him, like, he was on the bed. And I said to him, like, when we had to stay by, I just said, it's weird because when you walk into a room and you're saying bye to someone, I was telling him to go, but I was begging for him to stay. It was really weird.

And I said to him, go. I said, go and get your daughter. Go, go, just go and be free. It's all right up there. And I'll look after mum and the girls. And it's weird, but I felt it. Like when I said it, I was like, no, it's alright, Dad, I've got it. Like, go, it's alright.

I'll take care of them. But I don't know why I had that, because I'm the youngest, but I think I just want to save my mum. I know that sounds a bit cliche, but if you knew how much she'd been surviving at her whole life, you know what I'm saying. Yes. And I'm at a point where I've been surviving

because my mum had done. I couldn't break. I'm not blaming them, but they couldn't break that generational thing. And I have now. And this stops here. This isn't going further. We're not, I'm not being immune to things I shouldn't be immune to. I'm not surviving anymore.

I don't have to, I don't want to. Yes. You want to thrive. Yeah, I want to thrive, not survive. Yes, yes. That was powerful. Thank you. That's powerful.

So school, like, how did, how did, socially, how is, what was life? like for you? Socially, I was actually right at school in the sense of, well, primary school is a bit different because my school was in the estate. So with that, everyone had their own struggles. No one cared that. I didn't even know that we were different until I got to secondary school. I didn't even know

that me being a gypsy was different because I was on an estate where there's so much struggle. No one gave a fuck what we were. No one cared what we were. We didn't get what they were. They loved us. We loved them. That was it. So when I went to a secondary school, that's 30 minutes from where I live and is quite a bit prestige.

from where I'm from. Okay. I was, mate, I might as well have walked around with a target on my fucking back.

Like, but obviously I didn't, unless I'm not going to sit here and say I allowed people to bully me or whatever but it doesn't mean I didn't have to always defend myself. Mate,

I always had to be on guard. But everyone did, I say that, but people did die me in school. I won prom queen. Did you? Of course you did. Thank you,

Bill. I was like, of course you did. Don't shout me, Paul. Go on now. Yeah, I won prom queen. I won being the nicest student

and that. So, you know, even though I did have challenges and I will say this, Paul, when I was starting, I was sent to Alaska on a TV program for being naughty in school. Really? Yeah. What is this? Yeah, it's called Extreme schools. Okay, hold on, tell me about this.

So it was on CBBC, I was starting, and what actually happened was a boy scurped my cousin up for being what we are. So when I found this out, I approached him. Little altercation happened is what it is. But when this happened, the boy grasped me up. to the school. But when the location happened, there was no cameras.

So when I went upstairs, I said, I don't know what you're talking about. And then they went, well, he said that he hit your cousin. And I went, you were my cousin? I was like, oh, you're at my cousin? What? Yeah, and then they sent, they passed me a letter on. It was that, truly, we think you need to apply for this. And they meant love me.

Okay, so then you had to go to Alaska for a full year or now? No, no, for like 10 days. For 10 days? And we was there. But even that was intense, because I didn't know. I was different at this point. I weren't awake yet, if that makes sense. So I'll go there and they'd be telling me

how I've had my makeup, I've got my air, how I'm standing, how I'll talk, I don't get your elbows off, don't do this. So I had people, I was getting the blueprint coming out of it again. I've got people judging me again. Yes. I've always been attacked. And I'm not seeing that in a thingy way, but we have been. We've always been, had it from each side.

Yeah, from each side. I can see it. And so where, given all of this, right, I'm beginning to see at 13, 14, right, you're liked, but you're also loathed. Loathed. Loathed, disliked. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah, I think people were intrigued by me because I think they like my personality in that.

But then when they know things, oh, she's from that state. Oh, she's half chips. Like, it's a bit like, oh, you have them little things where they didn't just see me. is truly. Okay. So then where is your safe space at 13? I don't think I really had one. Not blaming my parents. I just think it was a very hectic house, very chaotic. And I had to navigate through that. And I think my parents would navigate children mentally in the sense of like they're navigating. You know how I said earlier, I see them as damaged teenagers. In my head, the damaged teenagers,

who had loads of children trying to navigate it on their own, who's both families hate each other. You can only imagine, what a safe space? Where am I going to go? My nun and granddad, what's they can call me a gorger? What goes to the other side? They can call me a dirty parking. They're lovely.

My safe space was that state. We going out playing football with all the other kids that were rejected. That was mine. That's where I could be funny. It's where I could be safe. It's where I could be a tramp. It's where I could be a gorger. It's where I could be a pikey.

I could just be me. I didn't have to worry about anyone and they love me for who I am. I can see it and that's why you because I see you rep your estate Yeah Yeah

Yeah I think some people think I had an interview the other day And the man sort of like hinted that I was showing it to get like clout or like laughs in the thing

Right One I've already got clout Doesn't make sense Sorry Just say Don't make sense Can I say that was nice. Thank you.

I've got clout. Period. Thank you. Period. Thank you. Secondly, I love my estate. It wasn't these gypsies dropping food off when my dad died. It wasn't these gorgeous or these high-up influences.

It was the people from my estate wait for their benefits to hit so they could drop me milk round because they knew we couldn't leave our dad's side dropping cereal round. I even had at the time, obviously my dad was ill. So money weren't flowing how it was because the man of the house is dying. And I was doing gas and electric. I had a really good job. I had to quit here working in a chip shop

so I could be close to him. I'd always bring fishing chips home every night. Whatever. And when my dad died, someone from my estate come round with an envelope full of 500 quid and went, I want to put this towards Uncle Sid's funeral. And we were like, no, no, no, no, no, no, I want to.

And that is why it's such a big thing for me to give back. Yeah, that's your heart. Your heart is in the estate. I can see it. I can see it. Hey there, I just want to say, thank you for choosing we need to talk. Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life. And I want to continue to share it with you.

So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast. So this is the part that I don't understand about your story. Yeah. So was it 14 when you started to create content, but you didn't post it? No, I was younger. You were younger? I was about 11.

Okay. I always had the idea of loving videos, like to see YouTubers. But obviously, back then, YouTubers were only online if they were established. So when I was thinking about it, I weren't established, I weren't known, I was a kid. And I was like, I'm going to do that. And it's like, you know when you see something, you think, oh, that's what I'm going to do? It was literally like a, oh, yeah, me too. But what was it that you saw that you wanted to do?

Because, you know, people get online and they do different things, you know. Some people, the focus is makeup. Sometimes the focus is comedy or we've had so many of these notorious YouTubers who are, they play games. What was it that you wanted to do? I think my motivation of it, firstly, was survival. I feel like I have, when I say performing since a kid, I don't mean in that way, but when you're trying to survive all different routes, you learn how to be funny,

you learn how to block noise out, you learn how to ignore comments or getting hit or this and that because you're so immune to it. So my arm was coming out of my immunity, I think, without even realising. I think as a child, I obviously thought, oh, we can do something else. But it was so frowned.

Like, my dad would never add it. I didn't even prove it until he went away, until he passed, sorry? Right. So that's why I'm so confused, because I would imagine how strict the household was that you shooting a video saying anything and posting it would have been a complete no.

Yeah, and it was. And it was for years and years. And then I hit about 17 and I just left college. And I thought, I really wanted to do YouTube. Oh, no, sorry, I just left school. I thought I really want to do YouTube. And then I started doing YouTube. It was that makeup content.

But my luck didn't take it seriously, like a career. Like, she's just a bit of ban on. Like, oh, she's gross. She ain't going to say, no, ain't mental on there. And then I switched over when I was, like, 20 to TikTok. And it just blew. Like, I found my audience. Okay.

But. So when you switched over, right? Was it makeup that you started at, doing? Yeah. I started to do makeup and that. I really wanted to be, like, an M-U-A girl and that. But then I actually realized I'm funny. Funny, hot, like, do you know what I mean?

Not everything. Do you know what I mean? Big list. I know exactly what you mean. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. No, but I mean, like, that's what I was saying about survival.

Like, even when I was in school, I've always been a chubby girl. I've been chubby since I was about six. So you can only imagine being a fat, cancer, a stikey, half pikey, half not in the school. Jesus, I walked in and they'd say out, you know, and I was a little bit slower as well mentally. And then tell me how fat I am, how stupid I am, all this, whatever, which is fine. But I had to learn how to perform and turn the pain into power from young in the sense of like, I remember being called fat and I was playing football. and I went, nickname me Big Blonde.

So I was really young. Even then, being so young, trying to flip my script or being bullied, that's very, even though, oh, it's very clever, though. Why are you six trying to flip a script? That's very interesting. And that's what they'd say. They've got big blonde,

and then if someone could be fat, they go, duh, she calls herself Big Blot. I'd just switch the whole thing. So you switched it, and you would say it first to beat them to it? Yeah, I had to. I knew what I was. I'm not stupid. Like, you know, even now when people say things, I think, right?

I'm not offended. Oh, you're a fat tramp from here. Yeah. I know, you've got it on video. Do you know what I mean? I've always been able to take it. That's why this hate is kind of boring. It's like...

I find this so interesting, truly. Good. I'm glad you do. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So much, so much. You're going to need a bigger pad, didn't you? Oh, my God.

I'm going to need another iPad, basically. So then when I hear you qualify right now, you talk about, say, your show, you talk about you and your sisters, you say you're just like the Kardashians, but what? Fat, broken on benefits. Okay. So when you say something like that, are you saying it to beat the thought of other people? Are you saying it as a preemptive, like, defense mechanism?

I've never explored it that way until you just said it. Because of how you talked about how you would flip the script when you were 1113. So it sounds like you've been flipping the script for the last 10 years. My whole life. Your whole life. Yeah. I've always had to flip it. I always have, do you know what I mean?

Like even just from that, I could play football with everyone after that. I could regulate myself. It went about them. It was about me. I could handle what they were saying because I put it out. Like you said you're 20 when you get on TikTok. Yeah, around 20, yeah. Okay.

And you said you found your audience. Yeah. Because your audience could begin to see you for more than just makeup. Yeah. What did they see? Just my life, how chaotic, how funny it is and little things that I do, like me, walking better foot to the shop,

you'll be surprised how many people go, I'm never over that. Like, that's who I am, I've never worn shoes. I don't even want to wear shoes now. Can I take it off? You can take it? I'm so sick of acting posh, Randy Paul. Get them off me.

Get those shoes off. You can wear them. Who need these shoes? In it? Who need these shoes? So, yeah, because say, so that was almost like TikTok. Like, you literally took your shoes off,

like figuratively and literally. Literally. It's like you were just you. Yeah. And it was the first time someone went, wow. Without, oh, you're this, you're that. It was kind of like, oh, love who you are. And I was like, thanks, me too. What did you begin to show at 20 that you still, that you felt uneasy about because you thought your mother or father or family may become aware of?

It wasn't about them being aware of stuff because I'm quite open. Like I'm quite, you know, it wasn't like they were going to. to fly and tank out about me, it was more of the sense I didn't want to disrespect them and their rules. I didn't want to, you know, gypsies are very private anyway. I think that's why there's been like a big uproar and this and that, but we're still private. No one knows nothing about us. They think they do because what we let them know.

Right. Same as you. No one knows nothing about you. You let them know what you want them to know. Yes. You're a performer. Yes. You know what you're saying?

You just hit a major milestone on your social. I hit a milly. Just a cool milly. So this is a million people follow you. Just on TikTok. Just on TikTok. You have a million people follow you. What do you think that says about you and what you're doing?

I'm just grateful I didn't change from who I am. Like you get a lot of people, why are you barefoot? Why are this? Why are you that? And I've never explained it. I'm me. And then people that follow me see a bit of themselves in me. And I love that.

I love that. I can radiate to people if they're from bad backgrounds, abusive homes, relationship, whatever, you name it. And they can look at me and go, oh, she can make it out. And that's what's been lovely. Even like, I was in that by the other day, Paul, yeah? I know you chucked my nails out earlier. I did.

I did. I like them. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And this girl walked past, and I know her from the estate, she went, you're right, babe. I went, you're right. I'm not joking.

She went, here, got you this, pulled out an envelope, filthy, absolutely filthy, absolutely filthy. I was laughing so much. I thought how long you had that envelope in there. So I've got this for you. I opened it up and it's a congratulations card, yeah, for my show, which was lovely. In there with such nice writing and she goes to me and she gives me the card, thank you so much because my daughter watched it and her daughter's a little black girl as well,

which meant more to me because she's not even from my community or my culture. And she went, thank you so much for doing that because she keeps saying to me, I'm going to do this. When I get off the estate, I'm going to do this. I can do that just from here. And just hearing that made everything. just feel like, oh, that was right. Oh, all right, cool.

Because to hear the mum say, thank you, she's got other options now. It's all I ever wanted as a kid. All I ever wanted was other options. And listen, I know travelling women have different options, yeah, they like to say that. I said that they don't work. Of course they work.

My nan worked in the field, yeah, was the, like, you know, picking all the edge and the fruit and that. Yes. And my dad would have to go with her because obviously she was a single mom. My dad and uncle would go with her. And that's another thing as well. My dad always had it hard.

Like, even when he was a little boy, my dad was blind in his eye. Oh, wow, he was? Yeah, but he had a scar like that. And I never understood what the scar was. I wasn't allowed to ask. I asked him when I got older. And he told me that he was working on the field with his mum.

And he put the knife in the tree. It was all like playing, like on their break, whatever. As little kids, like the tree shook or sank. The knife fell. They looked up. He went straight to die. So even from a young boy, And he'd never say about it.

It wasn't a big thing. It was like, get over it. You're blinding your eye. Get over it. You've been stabbed in your eyes as an eight-year-old child. Get over it. So that was my whole life of get over it. Come on, get over it.

Yeah. Even like, you know, my dad, my mom finds it hard to speak about it and this. Not that she wants us to get over it, but it's like, we've got to be strong. We can't be weak. We've got to be his, you know, his kin, his wife, his children. We've got to be him. when I just sometimes I want to cry and be me.

Yes. Yes. So then was it 20 when, is it tempting fortune? I was 22. You were 22? Yeah. All right. So now would you say that that was the first big break for you?

Yeah, it was a very weird time. I will say that of my life because I just left the only boy I've been with. I just left him. Oh, wow. Okay, so can we talk about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So then when you are 20 on TikTok, at this point, you're not living at home? Yeah, I am.

You are? I am, but I've got a boyfriend, yeah. Like, they see it as I'm married. So they see it. And I think it's confused as a lot of people. But in our community, if you give yourself to a man without church, they just see it as marriage. A lot of my cousins, if they come in the room now, they'd go and ask my husband, do they, some of them aren't married in the church. But I would never be distrushed.

like rude and disrespectful to not call them. If you're a wife coming in and out and you said, that's my wife, you're not for a church, that doesn't mean nothing to me. You've gave yourself to her, she's gave yourself to you. That's how I see it. Okay, okay. So I was 18 and then I left him when I was 22.

Okay. But even that was very hard. Was this someone who your family introduced you to? Because up until this point, it seems as if you're not allowed to talk to boys, you're not allowed to... Yeah, and I didn't. I didn't like that.

If I did, I play football with them. It wasn't on that. level of we can speak sexually or emotionally. It wasn't that vibe at all. No, I was about 18 and I just see him and I asked him what his name was. And that was it. But he kept, at this point, I've never been in a relationship. I've never had a man touched me.

I've never been on a date. Very like adult, child, but child in the brain, I would say. Yes. And he wasn't this aggressive traveling man. He wasn't this aggressive state kid. I thought, oh my God, that's what I want. And it went, it won't, it won't. Did your parents approve of him?

At first, I feel like some people, in this doesn't matter what culture you come from, I think some people perform, but perform, I don't think they perform as their self. I think they perform as an identity that they want to be perceived as, and I think that's what happened. And then I feel like he studied me.

studied my loyalty, studied how I think, and that was a very dangerous game for me. Okay, okay. Did you then, did you then move in with him? No, we weren't allowed because I wasn't married from church. Okay, but... And I didn't have a baby. If I had a baby, they'd go, yeah.

You go. I didn't have it, I didn't, I didn't. And I'm the youngest. I'm the youngest. Right. Did you consider that to be a healthy relationship? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. It's all I've seen. Okay. That's all I had done. Why would I think it was different to, because someone else did it to me? Oh, but you're saying, upon hindsight, it wasn't. What was it?

Your relationship with the boy. What? Was it more? Was it healthy? Oh, no. No, it wasn't healthy. It was not? No, but I didn't know different.

I didn't know any different. Okay. And he led me in the sense of, like, think I've never had sex. I've never done anything like that. He was the man entirely, like, and I just had to. I see it It was clever It wasn't in a way of like

Oh I'm this authorative I think that's what was worse Like you know if my dad said it I'd expect it Because he's true to who he is Where on the outside This boy's a wimp and a pussy old And then when it's on our own

You're not a wimper or a pussy out I'm confused Okay All right I see it I see it So then When you were in that relationship with him Did you think

That was it for you, that you'd be in with him forever? Oh, forever. I would never, I wouldn't have gave myself, it took me a year and a half to give myself to him. I would never gave myself to him. But I can't, I was a young girl, what do you want me to do? Like, I loved him, I was with him for four years,

what was I supposed to do? Okay. And I've, listen, I've always been too out to fight back. I've never been too I had to leave. So how in the world, given how you were raised, were you able to leave that marriage? I felt like I was dying. I felt like I was dying in it

and I felt like I was dying without it. But that part of me died then. That's obviously what that was. When I felt like I was dying, I was grieving something clearly that I was leaving. I had to get out of there. And I'm glad I did. Because I never thought I would.

Do you talk to anyone about leaving? No. No. This is, and you're in your 20s at this point. Yeah. And still, all of this weight you carry yourself. You don't talk to anyone about it. I don't really know how.

What were you feeling in that relationship that made you know it was time to leave? Not to sound deep or make things, whatever, but just saying it straight, I feel like when you're in something toxic, especially if you're immune to what's going on. And your brain is starting not to feel right. even though this is your normal surrounding,

I felt like I was fighting against myself as well. It was really like, I felt like, you know, I couldn't accomplish my mom and dad. We married over 40 years. I couldn't even do four. I started thinking. But then I also, now I'm awake, I think, well, he knew that I would stay through anything,

so he put me through everything. And that's okay, because it would never happen again. I'm not that girl. So even when you're saying to me, oh, can't you speak on it? I can't. I'm not that woman anymore. And it is hard for me to speak on it because I feel childlike. And even though, yes, I was a big grown woman, 22 year old. I didn't have the same experience as 22 year olds.

I have, 22 year olds my age, sorry, at that age, I've slept with people, done one night's snacks, not that I want that, but I'm saying they've had so much experience with the outside world that is probably a little bit dangerous to mine. But it was easier for them than it would have been for them. For me. Yeah, okay. I see it.

I see it. I won't ask any more detail, but I just have to generally understand is in that relationship were you in fear? I think when you've been brought up in fear and anger, you don't see it as fear and anger. You see it as home. And to me, I was at home. Okay, I see, I see. So it was, I would have presumed it was toxic. it was unhealthy, as you mentioned, but it felt normal to you because that's what you knew outside of it.

Well, I feel like if you've been treated a certain way your whole life when someone comes and says they love you and treats you the same way, why wouldn't he love me? Right. How old were you when you got out of that marriage? 22. You were 22. So is that right before tempting fortune? Oh, tempting fortunes. I look back now and I think was such a healing thing for me.

just because I just left him. A week later, I found out my dad's cancer's terminal. And then two weeks later, I got a message from Temptive Fortunes. They approached me saying that they want me on the show. Can I ask, though, because I could see that this time, is that you just want to escape. Yeah. You just want to get out.

But your dad has just been given, was it six months? Yeah. To live. So you're told your father six months to live. but then your offer to show that is going to take you away for a full month, isn't it? No phone.

No, nothing. How were you able to make that decision? I asked them. I asked them. And this was my, and I completely understand, you know, from someone's outside thinking, like, well, I wouldn't believe in my father.

And I completely get it. I was at his side for two years. This was the one chance. He's been dying for two years. Okay, I see it. It's just now it's six months. Okay. This is my one opportunity

I've been through things, no adult, no woman, no man should go through in these four years repeatedly. And now I'm out. And I'm like, where? Someone grabbed me. I need saving. That's it. And that's how I felt. I was obviously just very vulnerable. And I asked my dad. And my dad hated all that TikTok shit. Oh, I hated all that. Absolutely hated all.

I couldn't want him in one, giving it, all of that. And then this was the one time to me, I can prove it to my dad what I am. That's how I see it. It wasn't that I was leaving my dad. It was like, Dad, I'm proving this. Dad, look, I'm you. I'm doing this. Like, validate me, love me, love before you go.

Do this before you go. And I remember doing the show and I loved it. I had no phone. I had no worry. Just for that one minute, I weren't a nurse. I weren't getting, I won't break it up with someone. I weren't a half gorgeous, half bite. I was just truly in a jungle show, having fun. That's what I was doing.

And then I come back and I run my mum and I said after a month of us not speaking, she was crying. And I said, I'm really scared to ring Dad because I think he's dead. I don't want to ring him. She said, he's alive, he's waiting for you to call him, he's downstairs. And I was really happy and I'm wrong him.

I said, I did it, I won 20 grand. He went, oh, go on my big you, oh, take off mother's life, but it's just shouting who and all, he's dying, he's jumping up in his chair, like, you know, you think, fuck it out. You know, I was so happy that was the first time I could prove it. And I proved it. I did it.

I worked all these years doing TikTok videos. Even then I was popping. I had like 300,000K. You still won enough for him. Yeah. I see it. But now I see it. Yeah.

I see it. You went out there. He was like, look at me. Look at me. Dad, I'm ripping you. I'm out here. And you won. Yeah.

You won this show. You won 20 grand. You tell him, did you feel is if he was proud of you. Yeah, I felt more, well, it's hard in it because they hold their pride. Obviously, he was like, yeah, like cheering. But when he passed, the day before his funeral,

obviously, like I said, he comes from the gypsy community. A few of your gypsy friends come round, who he'd call our uncles, yeah? That's a respect thing, yeah? So my dad's, like, my uncles have come around, whatever. And one of them went, what one of you's did that show? It went out yet? It ain't been aired yet.

He died before it, Ed. and I didn't get the money yet either. That's why it was harder because I had to bury my dad with no money. I didn't have no money like that. But whatever, and they come in and he said, but when he used the show, and I went, oh, me, he couldn't stop talking about that. He went, he was so gassed.

He went, he told him to tell him to all of us. And just for that minute, I thought, you don't even know what you've just done for me. Like, you just gave me that thing of like, oh, yeah, he loved what you're doing. Keep going before he went. Like, bearing the mind, it's like the captain of the ship telling you had to steer a ship this whole time

You're going, I can steer, I can steer. And then he's gone just before he's gone and go, oh, she's a perfect captain. That's what it felt like. Wow. Well said. Yeah, that is literally how I felt. I can feel that. Yeah.

I can feel that. Yeah, it was cool. Did, and I can understand how stoic your father was. Did he ever tell you that he loved you? Yeah, but like in different ways. Like I said, there was a very, he already had certain issues mentally and stuff. So like, even if you were. hugged him, he'd go, all right, big girl, tap on your back.

All right, big girl, that's enough. Come on now. Oh, get over here, big girl, you know, I love you. Go on. It'd be like a, oh, I'm a 13-year-old saying, I love you to my mum. It was that vibe. But I know he loved us the best you could. Yes. He's lost a child. Died in his arms. What more, looking back, what more could I expect from what you give me?

What other life? He's been betrayed. He's been heartbroken. That's something you can't turn back from. And self, I look back because I think I'm so selfish, wanting something from a man. He can't give me. But he gave me everything else, and I'm grateful for that. Yeah. And I love him, but I don't want people thinking, I'm going to give my dad off.

I wouldn't. I love him. No matter what he's, like, traits and all, whatever. I love him. And I don't feel like I feel like, being honest, with filming, filming's made me grief. Filming's amazing. The people, the crew, the production company, amazing. but they were asked me questions I've never been asked.

We've been raised like we don't talk about emotions. I don't know how to regulate. That's what makes it harder as well. I don't know how to regulate. I don't know how to communicate. So I had to learn that. So to have a crew come in and be like, how did you feel when your dad die?

Or how did you feel when this happened? I go, my whole, it's like a fight or flight. I like freeze. I don't know what to, I don't know how to regulate that. I don't know how to speak on that without like sound like I'm cussing someone out. Right. You just were filming it last year, right? Yeah, well, last month.

Last month. Yeah. So before you even get the show, your father passes. You're probably trying to figure out who you are and what your identity is. Yeah. But from what I understand too is doing the research is there was also a freeing that happened to you around this time. Yeah. And it sounds weird because I'm missing him every day.

I'd love for him to be it. But when you have someone in control, like even what I would eat or what I would do, like even down to eating would be under his control. and to not have that do you know what I mean if I want to go get a bag of Chris I'll get a bad Chris if I want to go

just something so small yes there was a part of me that was free there's also a part of me lost I don't know what I'm doing like my mum describes it perfectly in the show she says I feel like I'm a bird

and I've been in the cage a long time and someone's opened the cage door I'm too scared to walk out what I'm curious what are things that you could do once your father passed that you could not do when he was alive.

Not leave a living room when men walk in. Not, like, even like our toilets, we've got a boy toilet and a girl toilet. Men aren't allowed upstairs in our house. There's always been a rule. No men upstairs. Like, whether you want to use a toilet, whether you, nothing.

Even when we'd film up there, I'd have to ask for permission of my mum and I'd have to tell her what I'm doing in the scene, who's in, who are the camera crew, like obviously she knows them, but I'd say, yes, the man, Harry is the cameraman today, and Martina is the other woman, she's in there, she's a woman,

and she's doing it. Okay. Because you remember, my mom, a lot of people love to say, like, wanna be, my mom's been with my dad 40 years. Obviously, she's going to have the same sort of program and she met him young. She met him as a child, what do you think's gonna happen?

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In Super Troopers 3, the mustaches are thicker, the maple syrup, stickier, and the pranks crazier than ever. Buckle up for the funniest comedy of the summer. Super Troopers 3, only in theaters Friday. Get tickets now. How does this show come about? Right? Because...

I can't wait until you this. From a career standpoint, you are... You've just won a Channel 4 show, tempting 4K. Tell them, Paul. This is good. You know.

You won. Your TikTok is, how big are you on TikTok at this point? At what point, sorry? Before you get the show. Oh, before this show? Yes. Like, 900,000? All right.

It's all right? Yeah, yeah, just a few people. Just a few people. I've got a bit of a community behind me. A little community going. And that's what I love about even more, Paul. Just to clear it, think up. So many people and light and have been going,

Oh my God, secretalised a gypsy wives. Why didn't they use full-bredded gypsies? Why didn't they use this? I tell you why they didn't because it weren't their idea. It was mine. All right, Paul? Okay. That's why.

So there's a little girls doing videos that are like, I got picked for the show, I turned it down. You didn't get picked for the show, darling. Because I pitched it and I picked me and my sisters. It was about me, being from a poor council estate, my dad is a gypsy, my mum is a gorgeous, I live life on social media, my family have different mixtures of traditions

from both cultures and it's a clash. Let's record it. You're going to love it. And they did. They did. So there was no other gypsies involved. I didn't name the title that. Channel 4 changed the name.

I don't know why I have to state it because these senders people, like who work on there, don't have to say that they didn't name me senders. Right. Right. So I don't know why I have to state, I didn't do that, but I didn't.

So, but this is brilliant, though. You pitched the show. I pitched it myself. So let's talk about some of the impact that the show is made. Yes. Three million. Three million.

people have what? Watched it. But the second episode's out tonight. All right. So just so far, right? Three million, right? It's doing quite well on Channel 4. I'm not counting, but.

Yeah, but of course, of course. You have to count. You have to count. Numbers are important. So you have to count. So what to you has been the biggest surprise on the upside with regard to the show? How much love I have got from people that are half. Because I know that it's really, I know that some people,

are ashamed or like feel like they can't be both. You're only in this one box and that's it that you've been put into. And that's what I love. I love that they've come out and they're like, I've been ashamed about it my old life but I ain't got to be ashamed

they're saying it. So I'm off, there you go. I'm gypsy from my mum's side. Now what? And I think, yeah, that is what you should be saying? What? You are that? You're all of them things.

I ain't just got to be one thing in a box. I'm this, I'm like an onion. There's so many layers. There's too many layers to me. Okay. Do you what I mean? I don't know. I don't know.

No, no, no. You don't know. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So you're, you feel like you're inspiring a whole group of people who see, they see you in them. Or I'm sorry, they see themselves in you. Yeah.

They see themselves in you. Yeah, and I want that. Like, when a kid from like little things we spoke about, do you think I ever looked on a telly and I saw a woman that looked like me? Or do you think I looked in the telly and saw, like, someone that's from a deprived area that ain't getting to. making the piss out of. Or, no, I didn't have that. I didn't have none of that. And that's what I thought.

There's probably a lot of girls like that. Like, even like yourself, you're from a different culture. There's probably people you know that probably wouldn't accept people that are mixed. They probably wouldn't. I think that comes with any culture, like in general. Yes. But you were probably very inspirational for people from the black community

who come from the projects, who come from that and think they're not going to be saying, you represent that. And that's what I want to represent. I want to represent. them girls that didn't have a choice. I want to represent them girls that had been in survival their whole life

that they think this is it. And it's not. It's okay. And it's right that you still got them survival instincts. It's right, you're still learning. It's okay. You ain't got to be horrible to yourself.

That's what I have to say to myself. You're in your 20s. Stop being horrible to yourself. You're young girl figuring life out without a dad. You're figuring it out. Be nice. And that's what I want for them. It's all right.

Even if you ain't got to figure out. This girls in their 30s, I ain't got to figure it out. We're winging it. It's life. No one that's got a rulebook to this. No. Like, I didn't know there was a life rule book or a gypsy rule book.

Do you know what I mean? If you got one, send me the book, Paul. Do you know what I mean? Yes, yes, yes. No, I love this. I love this. So now, on the show, there are many, I don't want to see characters. Yeah.

Because they're real life, but they're characters. There's many people, right? Many, wouldn't they? Because, I mean, some of them. So you have yourself, and it's really centered around you. Is it? I didn't know. I'm sure.

You had no idea that it's centered around. Cut the cameras. And then you have your family. Yeah. Right, clearly. Yeah. And then you have a best friend. James.

James. Yeah. All right. So when did you connect with James? When I was 20. Okay. I was 20. I was trying to do TV work, but I was a little extra and sank.

But that was a big deal for me. Because obviously, even when I'm out of state, you're not an extra. You could never see yourself on screen, let alone be in an extra. So I was there. And this boy come over to me. I was in a relationship at the time, and he'd come over, and he was like, he was getting pictures with everyone.

It weren't a deep thing. He was just showing that he's an extra too. You got a picture. Me with my banter, I joked and was like, don't tell everyone I'm your girlfriend. I've got one. Like, you know what I'm in? I played, yeah?

And James went, I'd never even spoke to James. He'd come out of nowhere and he went, Ian it? He wishes that you were his girlfriend. I went, in it. We've been friends ever since. Just like that. Like that.

It was like, he was horrible and I loved it. I was like, in it. And so, So he must be super proud that you're doing this show. Yeah, because you see when me and James met, like I said, we were extras, and we made a pact to each other. Whoever makes it first, the other one comes with. We made that.

And he says it to me every day. He goes, thank you, I love you, and all this stuff. But that's my lawyer. That's who I am. If you're with me at the bottom, why would you not be with me at the top? Yes, yes. I can see it. Loyal is definitely a value, or loyalty, should I say, to value of yours.

That's the only thing I got about me. I ain't got money. I ain't got this. I ain't got that, I've got Lottie. Have a surprise for you. Ready for this? No, don't because I love surprises. I love stuff and things.

No, this I think you will love. Okay. This is really good. Okay, shall I close my eyes? Shall I make it in time? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, yeah, all right, all right, yeah, all right,

hold your hand. Hold out your hand. All right, yeah, like that. Okay, ready. I want you to, that's a surprise. What do you think that is? There's an envelope, in it?

Yes, yes. Has it got cams in it? It ain't thick enough, I think. All right, so open your eyes. Okay, thank you. And I would love for you to read that. Read it out loud? Yes.

To my best friend, soulmate and forever person truly precious. I want you to know how incredible I think you are. From the moment I met you six years ago, I knew of our instant connection we could be soulmates. Your courage to stand for what you believe, your boldness and bravery in life is something that I think is so admirable. Seeing a version of you, that only family get to see is breathtaking, but besides your work, your fault,

followers in your social is a girl who's fighting, who's fighting hard and proving, sorry, and showing up to provide for all of her loved ones, making moves and setting the tone T.P. style. You're loyal to your family. It's something that honestly thinks extraordinary. You wake up every morning, no matter what the world throws at you, you make sure you're always loyal to your own. You're the woman who holds the glue for all of us. You're loyal, loving, brave and most importantly,

Miss T.P. Brackets, iconic. I can hear him saying it. Sorry, that's why it's funny. From meeting you to become best friends to watching you on this journey has been the most breathtaking, magical thing I've ever experienced.

This is something that isn't luck or is the universe, this is you. You've changed the lives of so many people by simply being your unapologetic self. You've worked so... Fucking hell, he's real a lot. I'm dyslexic as fuck, this is so much right? You've worked so hard to get where you are

and I hope you are just as proud of yourself as we are. You really are something truly precious. I want it to take a moment to mention your daddy as he would be proud and is proud of the woman you have become. You have support his home and his family. I know he thanks you every day for looking after his wife and his kids and his grandkids. You may have broken some traditions to get to this point in your life. Sorry.

No problem. Um, um, sorry, God, see. Looking after his wife and his grandkids, you may have been, you may have broken some traditions to get to this point in your life, but I know he's up there telling everyone how amazing his miracle is. He's thanking you every day for taking on a responsibility when it's never been expected of the rest of you.

I'm honestly so excited to see what you bring next for truly precious. This is your journey, your story. It's only the beginning. Whatever happens next in your life and career, I'll always be by your side, holding your hand, hoping you up. Every step with the way, I'm never letting you forget how proud we are. You really do love up to your name, truly precious.

I love you so much, my darling. I can't express how proud I am with you six years ago yesterday, today, and forever to go. You've earned a milestone you've hit, and it's going up from here. All my love, James. Wow. Now, that, Paul, was a surprise. Wow, what a lovely message.

Can I keep this, please? You absolutely can't. I'll hold on to it, and then I'll give it to you. Thank you. At the end. I thought that was beautiful. That was very lovely. Yeah.

How dare he make this podcast about him? Are you joking? Cut it? I tell you, we can really make it about him because that's you and James. Yes, I love him. He's great. He's amazing. When I met him, when I was younger, yes, we had that instant connection.

But James, he wouldn't mind me saying this. He says it on the show. James don't have a family like that. So when I met James, I guess we both kind of lost. I was in a relationship that I couldn't scream out that I want to get out. I was still under my mum and dad's rules. And James was just this boy

that was young, you know, naive, no family, starting Essex. He didn't even know what gypsies were, which is quite a funny. He does now, I tell you now he does. Yes, yes. But like, he's been amazing. And what I love about James, you know that in life, you know, you meet people

and you can go to someone, oh, I don't like that. Like, you might have to teach them a certain thing or a boundary. We are so close. If he run me and said, oh yeah, don't say that. You go, be da-da-da.

I'd go, oh, sorry. Like, it's just so much love there that anything, if he used to take negative, oh, that love would override it. It would never be intentional. True best friend. Thank you very much. So this is your best friend?

Yeah. Yeah, James is amazing. Yeah. He's great. I can see it. I can see it. So now James is on the show with you. Yes.

You have your family, right? Can you walk us through some of the behind-the-season. scenes because so many people would love to know what happens behind the scenes. What do you think people would be most surprised about to know just about the filming of a TV show? Well, I think people are surprised that ours is real. I've seen a lot of comments. It's like, oh, some of this is staged, some of this is this. And I think, oh my God, my show must be popping. Like, for you to think I'm staging, saying, wouldn't I have something more staged? Like, babe, I'm walking barefoot with no bar into the shop. Wouldn't it say else be at me?

You know what I mean? Right. But I love that. I love that. I love the crew. They were so lovely, so nice. And, you know, I had to, not like warning, but I'd say, listen, there is a culture clash in here.

There's certain things you can say, certain things you can't. You know, just take you a pinch of salt. They were so just understanding. Like, everyone said that was ignorant, what you think, no, no, no. And they're like, it's all right. Like, it's okay. You've told us. We know.

You know, like, that understanding without having to overly explain whole life and defend myself again. Yes. I didn't have that. Yes. And I loved it. I could just work with them and they knew who we were. They knew what we are.

They loved us. They were friends. Like, I've bought one of my producers is pregnant. I've bought a baby stuff. Like, they've bought me handbags for doing the show. Like, they genuinely love me and I love them. They're so kind. I've never been around gypsies, like mainly are with themselves.

They don't have, like, I don't know if you know that, but like, where there's obviously so many of you, you mainly just get raised together. So I was very lucky to have my sister. and my brothers as my best mates, but to come out of anything of that was a bit foreign to me, even having James. James and Robbins are the only friends

that we're all friends with. We're all friends with them, they're family friends, they're not just my friend. Do you know what I mean? Yes. And to have that with the crew was so nice. They're so lovely, like genuinely. And like you've been in this industry,

how hard is it to, like, you say your vision and you've got to trust them with what they say in? Because they could manipulate this, they could change this whole thing, for me and I've just signed up to something that they're not actually agreeing with me. And they didn't. They portrayed it even better. They made us look good.

Really? If everyone thinks we were shit, Jesus, we see what we actually look like. So this right here is what I think people most often say when they're on a TV show is that the end result is not what they felt was happening in real time. Oh no, this is exactly that. But for you, you're like, no, this is exactly what was happening. That's great. I think they even made us look better than what we were.

Like, we've argued, obviously, listen, the crew with us for almost a year, like, we filmed a pilot last March. So on and off, I was doing this for about a year and a half. But actually, like, consistently, it was from September last year. So for about 10 months straight, they're at our house. Wow. What could we fake? You're there 10 days, sorry, 10 months straight. What could we think?

There's only so much I could put a persona on. Sure. You're with me 24-7. Like, from when I wake up to when I'm going to bed. Like, I need to go. I mean, that's heavy, though. 10 plus months. How did your sisters and your brother, it's one brother, right?

I actually have three brothers. Three brothers, okay. But one wanted to be in the, they're quite private traveling men, like gypsy men. All right, so this is exactly where I was going, is that how did they feel about filming the show and having to, you know, allow cameras into their home? I'm not going to lie, Paul. We're friends, I'm going to be honest with you. They didn't have a fucking clue until I said.

Listen, I'm filming saying, I just need you to use. to be in the back. Because listen, if I said to him, we've got a TV show and we're doing this, they're going to freak out. Right. So they're saying in their world,

yeah? They're going to freak out like animals. Where if I sit and go, I'm filming saying, user just there, they'll go, oh, and then they'll just talk shit and they naturally would talk to me.

Naturally, it's natural. We're naturally mental. So it just might as well film it. Do you know what I mean? So you set them up? Yeah. You set your family up. Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah. That's what you do to fail me. You set them up. Yeah, but in a good way, Paul. Don't like I sit them up to get jumped. Right, no, no. I got my career pole. I mean, they all have, I mean, I would think that,

they must be proud. Yeah, but like, it's hard for them as well because they've got the same upbringing as me. So when they're seeing people giving it, they think, lovely, let's get into this, you know what I mean? Whereas like, girls, no, we are getting a new life now. We don't need to do this. We don't need this.

We've got better things coming. I see it as we're getting tested by the universe. Like, if we really deserve these things, which we do. So I need to be mute. I need to keep it cute, be a mute. It's hard, though, because I just want to go, it's hard. It's hard.

Can I ask, too, is what about the estate? Because, you know, you're filming on the estate. Yeah. Right? How did the community feel about you filming? They were fine. They were cool. Because I think because they know how much I big them up on TikTok

and how much I actually love them, like, that isn't a facade. If there's a camera there or not, if I had, sorry, if I had dinner, I made and there's leftovers, of course I'm looking on my neighbor's door if they want to cry. They're eating. Do you want something to eat?

Like my neighbour Debbie, she makes cheesecakes for us randomly when she bakes. That ain't fake. Right. We're a community. If one of us is eating, we're eating. Do you know what I mean? That's why when I got paid, when I got paid for the Brown deal, that's when I, on the second episode,

I give out, I feed all the estate kids on Halloween. I did it on Halloween because I've been a steak kid myself on Halloween. I know what happens on Halloween. You probably know what happens on Halloween. And I thought, I need people to be safe. I need them to be okay. I need them not to feel pressured if they've got to go

and do something on Halloween with other groups of kids. Right. And I gave them a safe place. I did a TikTok. I didn't put my dress out. It's literally from my state people who know where I live.

I said, I've got 200 hot dogs, I've got marshmallows and I've got hot chocolate. If you need somewhere to go or you're hungry or you don't want to be in your own, whatever the situation is, come to the garden.

Paul, there was over 200 hot dogs I give up. See, that's how you do it. And that's how you do it. You know what so wild is I didn't even realize there was that connection from the States

to the UK on Halloween. So tell me, because I'll be honest with what happened. Yeah, yeah. So I remember Halloween, what Halloween used to be was people in my neighborhood would go steal candy

from other people. They would stick people up during Halloween and bring it back. Is that what, or no, is different? Yeah, like, egging, brick in, toilet paper in the houses, maybe plotting on a house,

like scaring people. Right. Or like, chore and fank, whatever. Just the state soul. Like, you know, or they'd be out on them bikes, ballied up, scaring you, or setting the fireworks off on a bike.

Right. But to me, that's nostalgic. I know that's really stupid, but that was my childhood. But I also had to think as an adult. So that's also as hard because there's two parts of me. Like I said, my blueprint is like, that's so fun. I would have gone to motorbike and set fireworks off. That's jokes.

But. Then there's an adult part of me. That's like, what else if someone gets hurt? And then what happens if someone gets nicked? Then what happens if this turns into World War III? And now they're petrol rumming in each other's houses. then what? Can we talk about your siblings just for a second more?

Because they are more than a supporting cast. Like they are major players. They're literally the show. Yeah, yeah. So if you were to give me a sentence about each sibling, what would that sentence be? Okay. What is in describing him?

Yeah, from your perspective. Who are they? So Jamie John's my older brother. Yes. He's like the golden boy could do anything wrong. I love him, by the way. Yeah, he's great. Yeah.

No, and he is actually a really good brother. And that's another thing that I found really sweet. Sorry to change you. But my brothers have always been these strict gypsy men. That I couldn't really, like, be not like feminine, but I couldn't in that way around them. Like, if I was sad, it'd be like, what are you crying for? You're standing for, you stop crying.

You sort of get, like, snapped out of it, like a boy. We was emotionally, we were treated like boys, I think. But when my dad passed, I guess there wasn't this high standard, of like matching my dad like matching the alpha okay so he like calm down a bit I don't know how to describe it

but it's so nice it's just so nice to you know if I cried he'd hugged me now if I know if I said something oh big girl I'm all I'm all right about that he'd be in touch with my emotion instead of rejecting it

yeah it's beautiful yeah and it's so nice to have I love that about him very good father very very good at working very humble man lovely Ruby would sell anything for some magic beans.

She ain't got a clue what day is. Love her. She doesn't know what day is. No, she's a very good sister. She's very like a second mum. But who's lost with magic beans. Okay. That's her.

Pirlie is like stuck up funny mum, I guess. Bitch. Tells how you really feel. Yeah, yeah. No, and then honey is, honey's like funny in a dryway. Do you know what? It's really hard just to give them all sentences.

because we're all very similar, but we're all so different. They're so funny. They're so dry. We've all got different paths. Two of my sisters, like on the cast, yeah, not the other ones that aren't. Two of the sisters on the show are married with children. And me and my sister, Ruby, our name. She's the oldest one, and I'm the youngest.

So that's really like... Yeah. But Ruby was also two moms early. Oh, wow. Which is so weird. That's interesting. Yeah, that we're both prime. Yeah.

That is interesting. Yeah. All right. So now, you... You live in a, is it a pink chalet? Oh, I've got a chalet, yeah. Shalé. But it's a bit different, my chalet.

I will say that because my chalet, normal chalet, is just that you know, Paul, are like little houses, right? And inside them, you have a bedroom, a little kitchen and a little living room, like, all in one. But my dad was so strict that when he got this built, and now looking back, I'm not stupid, it was obviously because he knew he was going to die

and my mum would be on our own in the house, yeah? He said, I don't want you to have in a living room or toilets or kitchen because it means you won't come until a lot of the house. house. Wow. So you will, you'll have a shape of one, you'll have your bedroom in there, but you will be using this house. This is your home. So even that was a controlled environment. That is interesting. That is interesting. So it forces you to have to go into the house to interact. Yes. But we do that anyway. Like it was very, it was a bit thingy, but now

I look back, it was obviously because he weren't going to be there. That's so I think anyway. Okay. But I think, maybe he thought, no, you will be in this house. You won't go, you can, I can give you a little bit of freedom, but not as much as you want. You ain't moving out. Right. You ain't going nowhere. But it also could be that he wanted to see you. But he saw us.

I lived there. You know, but he wanted to make sure that you... Oh, you mean when he passed? Came... Yeah, yeah, came back. You have talked about building an empire. Yes. Right?

You have this show that is incredibly successful. Thank you. That I'm sure is going to create more shows and more projects. Put it to the universe, poor. Oh, no, it will. It will. I think there, I will say this is, and I'm not saying this to gas you up, but I'm going to tell you. Go and gas me, don't be sure.

And let me gas you up, is that you are exceptional talent. Thank you so much. That means a lot. You're the type of person that just comes around once every few years. You know what I mean? Wow. In the industry. Thank you.

And so there's no doubt what the future holds. for you, right? Thank you. But here's a question that I have. And I was thinking about this coming in. I was like, wow, she still lives in the estate. Still lives in the chalet? Yeah.

Still. How does your identity change once you move away? Well, I feel like if you move away, it's very easy to forget where you come from. And I don't want to, because even though I come from, you know, hardness and survival and struggle, that's who I am. That is what I am. I don't know, like, posh girl has had it really good, so I'm not going to pretend I have been.

Like, you moving from the projects, even though that must have been amazing for you in your career, I completely understand it on a survival level. You probably love the projects, though. Yeah, I mean, yes and no. No, you probably want your kids there. Right, right, right, right. And I get that.

But you, for you, you, you love it because it made half of you. It made part of you. all right, you might have been beat up, you might have won some fights, you might have been robbed, how many lessons you learned that you didn't learn in school? Yes, true, facts, yes. And that's why I'm grateful for that. All right, I might not be so academically clever, which I wish I was. I'm very street smart.

I can definitely read a room. I could definitely read a tone on someone's voice changing. I can read the tone of the footsteps going up the stairs. So, all right, I can't read that way. I can read other things that you couldn't, which is another skill. Yes, yes. So now will you move or will you not move? I don't have that thing of moving.

So really, you don't see that leaving? I mean, to be honest, I feel like I'd travel and I'd explore. I feel like I'd always come back to my safety net. Even if I went travelling for like three weeks, Thailand or here, I'm like, oh, I can't wait to get home. That is my, that chalet now as an adult is my safe spot. If I want to cry in there, I can. I've got no adult telling me not to be a pansy. I've got no one telling me to get over it.

If I want to go in there and sing, I'll go in there, see. If I want to go in there, whatever, it's just my room. It's my room, my space, nothing else. I'm safe here. Wow. Okay. Okay. So then when you think about empire and building an empire, because I've heard you mention this a few times,

what is an empire to you? Building on the foundations I already have. Okay. So adding to what I have, I feel like some people neglect what they've got and then try and chase a different thing over here where I want that with me and that. I don't want to... If it was my way, I'd buy the whole state.

I'd buy all the estate. I'd do cheap rent for everyone, for all the mothers that are on benefits and struggling. Like, it's to benefit people. It wouldn't be to be like, I'm in power. I'm in... No, no. It's more of like, I'm here to help you,

and I can. Instead of a power trip thing, I don't have that weird power thing. Yes. It's more of like, how can I guide you? How can I, what can I give you to make you feel better? That's just how I, that's what I've been programmed. Okay, okay, all right.

I'm with you on this. What about you in dating? What about it? I know. This is, this is, it's interesting. For some people, everyone loves when I talk about dating, but to certain guests, but you could be maybe the only guest that's like, I don't want to talk about this.

I'm scared. But, I mean, but you, you did date. on your show. I mean, it was some speed dating. I'm having lip gloss for this, Paul, you know? You ain't getting me like that, no. No. We're supposed to be friends here, Paul. I see, every time it's a tough topic, you go to your lip cloth. I need to time, Paul.

Some people, they go to their vape. You go to your lip gloss. Yeah, I'm like, hold on. And you have no more lip gloss in there. No. Oh, it is a little bit. Yeah, I'm getting it out. There's a little bit. Look at you trying to promo my lip gloss. I see you, Paul. I'm sending some to your wife anyway, Paul. Come on. Send some. Send some. But so...

Sorry, I'm here. And as detailed or as loose as you want, but I'm just curious about you and if you see any importance of having a partner. Because many people today say, you know what, this is no longer important to me. But I see that it is a part of that blueprint that you talk about that you grew up under is having a partner. So how will you or how do you view partnership now? It's really hard for me to answer because I feel like my, unfortunately, my concept of love from my first relationship is fucked. I don't feel like love to me isn't safe, unfortunately, which is weird because I've got so much love to give and I love loving people. But to actually, like the idea of bleeding in front of a shark again just doesn't appeal to me.

But I do understand the strength of having a man around. I think a man should be around. I think a lot of people glorify of being like a single mom and this and that when it's actually really hard. Like, I'm not a single mom, but I'm around single moms. I've been an auntie that's had to pick slack up. Do you know what I mean?

I've had to be an auntie to friends, babies when they're... It's very important the presence of a man, the leadership, the control, the empathy of a man. And I am aware of that. But I also feel like you need to have control of you first before you allow a man to do that. I couldn't allow a man in, like I said, and bleed in front of him when I'm trying to heal myself. I couldn't expect him to heal me when I've got so many wounds I haven't addressed yet.

That's fair. All right, I hear you. I hear you. I will say that just keep in mind, not all of us are sharks. Yeah. Some of us are goldfish. Yeah, well. You know what?

Some of us are whales, right? There's a whole variety, but I really, respect what you've had to deal with, what you've had to survive. And I understand your positioning. Yeah, it's also like when you've only swam with sharks, why would I want to swim with a goldfish? I don't know how to. Great point. But that is something I'm trying to learn.

I'm trying to learn. I'm trying to unprogram my programming. It's hard, especially when you're young. Like you said, I feel like people only do that really in their 30s and 40s. I had to really snap, like, 22. I had to be like, what is my... What's going on? But thank you for giving the option to, if I want to explore that, I can.

Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Appreciate you for that. I feel as if you have a more clear, or perhaps more than at any point in your life, you have a crystal clear view of who you are. Yeah. What you stand for, what your boundaries are. Yeah.

What your identity is. You know, I have a lot of conversations around identity here, which I didn't think I would, but I do. I like that, though. And I always say that identity is the story that we tell. Tell about ourselves that we believe. Yeah. So what do you believe your identity is today? I think I am a lovely woman who is from a gypsy background,

also a gorgeous background into that household. And I live poorly on an estate. I'm a kind woman. I've got a good heart. And my morals are impeccable. People might, you know, people can say what they want. You'd never hear me not saying, please and thank you. You'd never not hear me offering you what I've got.

I would never be online slagging a girl down. Bullying them. I wouldn't do that. You know, so there's a lot of things that I think people would say I'm not, but there's a lot of things I definitely am. All right, all right. I'm with it. I have only two more things, however.

Yeah. Is there anything we have not yet talked about that you want to make sure that we have a part of this conversation? I just want to make it clear of what the intention of the show is. Let's do it. Do you, oh, do you want me to say, or you lead it off? Oh, no, you lead it off. Thank you, please.

You lead it off. Thank you. There you go. I just want everyone to know that this show isn't about all gypsies. I don't know why people are so confused by that. It's about my life, my upbringing. The thing is about the show when I was making it, I specifically said I didn't want certain stereotypes.

I feel like if you look at Big Fat Gypsy Weddings, yes, all right, you know, I feel like that did cause a little bit of harm to our community. So I didn't want it stereotyped. I didn't want to show them my sister cleaning the trailer. My sisters have trailers. My sister Ruby and Pearl lived in a trailer for 10 years. Yeah? So there's loads of things I could show you.

I didn't want it stereotyped. Like I didn't want it where we're sitting there making a bacon pudding. We're making a stew. Yes. I feel like you saw that. I didn't want to stereotype it from Big Fat Chipsy Williams. I wanted to like flip it and be like, listen, I come from more ways of life than that.

And because I haven't done that, I feel like I'm getting a lot of heat for not stereotyping it, Like for not showing us all cleaning, for us not getting a trailer, for like, you know what I mean? I felt like I've been punished for trying to break us out of a stereotype. Yes. And with Big Fat Gypsy Wedding, what I remember about that was it won a BAFTA or nominated for a BAFTA, I think. Right. Eight million people watched it.

So it was one of those where it created a lot of noise, or I shouldn't say noise, it created a lot of attention around the gypsy community. Yeah. And people argued for and against the attention that it got. So your thought going into your show, and this was your show, this was your idea, was that you distinctly did not want to showcase any stereotypes. No, I thought it would benefit us. I, I, I'm going to plead ignorance on this. Go on, yeah, do your thing.

Do you know it was not until I came to the UK now about eight years ago that I fully began to understand. the level of prejudice, or should I say, actually, discrimination. So it wasn't until I got here eight years ago that I saw the extreme discrimination towards the gypsy community. Yeah. I didn't get it until I came here. And what I have seen, what I find fascinating is how that level of discrimination

appears to sustain itself. Like, it's still high. It's stuck. Yeah, it's stuck. It's stuck. Like, it's not, doesn't feel like it's going anywhere.

That is what's so sad because I feel like in the show I explained that, like my whole life of being that culture clash and that I want to be that safe space and I feel like I've made it rough and it's coming from my own community, which is so sad.

Like, it's so sad. And then when you react, like, when I've reacted out of anger, they'll play victim and then I'm wrong again. And it's like, oh. And that's my old blueprint. arguing, why am I arguing? What am I doing? Truly, you are a businesswoman, calm down.

The whole world, like you said, you went, not all of us are sharks. All I've been around is sharks. It's hard to take things when I feel like I'm getting bit from everywhere. Like, it's hard for me just to hold it. Go on, go on, you bite my arm off you want. Oh, go on, you bite this off without me, sansank. And then I react and I look bad.

And that's what's hard because I have to channel, I have to regulate. And that's what's hard. Because all I want to do is defend. what I've always had to do. Yes. Yes, I can see it. I can see it.

I have so enjoyed talking to you. Same. There's one final image that I want to show you. Yeah. But what I want you to do is I want you to look at this from truly precious temple, a million followers. Like, you know, top television show. Like, I want you to look at it from... An outsider's view.

from, no, from your, this is your view. Right. And I want you to give advice to the person in this image. Okay. Okay. All right. You're ready, but I think this is important. Should I close my eyes?

Absolutely, you can. Oh, sorry, every time I see my dad. Just say. Who's in that photo? It's me. My daddy. and my sisters, Honey, Ruby and Pearly, the girls on the show. And I think we're somewhere from the looks like,

I think we're in Australia, I think we're travelling here. Oh wow, okay. Yeah. I remember some of this. I remember being on his shoulders at one point, and he told me to get off because I was too heavy. I'll just tell her, this is your unit. This is your team.

Right now, this is your team. You might feel like, because you're young, and they're coming for you because you're the baby, that they might be attacking you as well, but they are your safe space. They mean well, and it will be you first, you and them versus the world always. That's what I'd say to them.

Hold your head, I know what you're doing. Don't worry about everyone others, don't worry about everyone else's visions. Don't be trying to get business advice of people, that ain't got businesses, but we're trying to get, you know, life advice of people that have had the same life 40 years. Know you, you know what you want,

go and get it and bring them to the top. That's what I'd say. And hit a million. Is that I'd say? There's always something from a guest that I will always take with me. I'm going to, I love that. This is your team. I'm going to tell that to my boys.

Yeah. I think that is so profound and succinct. It's like, see everyone, this is your team. And your boys, you've got two boys? Yes. You make sure they know because you're the man or the family, yeah? you're the head. God forbid anything happens. They will have to look after their mum and each other.

They have what they've got. So yeah, it will be, and I'm not talking on that existing. I take that from the universe. I don't wish anything like that on your family ever. I'm just saying things in life happen, whether it's later in life or quicker in life, whatever. And you still, you can never be prepared. My dad was done for two years,

and I was never prepared for it, even watching die. But what I was prepared is that we were drowning, but together. And that's what I was. matters. I'm definitely going to tell them. That's my promise to you. Yeah, I love that. Matter of fact, you know what I'm going to do is I'm just going to clip this and show

it to them. Yes, good, good. And I love, I love, do you know what I love about you speaking to you? I love how, and when I say feminine, I don't mean like you're a feminine man, you're so in touch with yourself and emotions and that must be so lovely to have, especially you having two sons. Like I can only imagine their future wives being like, oh, what men, what men they are. Like your wife must love to, like if she's wronging now crying, you could speak to her.

Oh, yes. You could calm her. You could be her peace, not a chaos, not her. What's she doing? And that's so lovely to see and have in a man. So you should be really proud that it's such a lovely thing to have. Yeah, I appreciate that. You know, I really do.

I think I have learned. And I think a lot of, or not a lot, some men have a hard time understanding that you can have, that and you do have parts of you that are masculine you have masculinity show up in parts of you and then there's feminine there's femininity in parts of you which is beautiful a beautiful thing which is what makes us human and what was hard for me over my life is to understand that and then embrace it of course of course you know but but but but but but i've reached a point the two so hard yes yes that's what said about my brother, I felt like he was so heightened here and dead past and he could be

even, like on a level. Yes. Like, my brother needs to go mad and be masculine. All right, cool. I think any man can really do that. That's part of their programming. Right. But for you to challenge a part of you that isn't your programming is to be, to understand

what someone's saying, even if you don't, or to listen without judgment or is such a good trait to have, you will have very strong loving boys. I'm so gas for you. Even as my friend, I'm like, I'm so. happy. Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate that. And thank you so much for having me. I had a good time. Sorry for the trauma dump. Oh, no, no. Can I have that photo? I'm going to give you all these photos, but I have to give you the last question. Oh, yeah. Because everyone gets this question. And this is my favorite. So, truly, you've had some incredible conversations throughout your life.

Which one stands out to you as the most memorable? Who was it with? And what did you? And what did you? you learn. I don't know to, I keep saying I don't have to answer it. How can I say a different sentence? Sorry, what's the better sentence? That one works for me. Oh, right. Oh, I'm right. Oh, I'm right. Just be dry right. Yeah, do you know what? It's hard because I feel like I've had so many good conversations from so many different people that have taught me in different ways. Like, I've got people in the estate that had taught me something when I was younger, streetwise. I got, like, here from you, even talking to you. It's so nice to speak to you. Even just how you'd aren't, like, you asked me a question earlier. I can't

remember what it was, but I've never been asked that. And then I thought, oh, I've never asked that to myself. So I think every day speaking to people, I've been very modicodled. So every day, me speaking to people is a new element of me that I'm unraveling. And I like that. It's scary, but I do like that. I do like learning, and I do like being open to what I can change or what I can do. So everything to me is a bonus when it comes to speaking to people, to be honest.

See, I've asked that to, we had, what, 100 guests. no one has ever given that answer. I'm sorry, I'm the favorite one. Did you report say that? Me too. Oh my gosh, you're going to give me to trouble. You are definitely going to stand as one of my most memorable guests. Thank you so much.

And I'll tell you the characteristic that I most adore about you, that I didn't realize was truly you. And that is your transparency. I love that you are open about your challenges. You're open about your grief, but you're also open about your passion. You're also open about, you know, you loving on you. Thank you. You know.

And what I find to be so hard with television talent and talent today is the performance. Oh, yeah. Now, to a certain degree, do we all have to perform? Yes. Oh, like if you're having a bad day, you can't show that or something. Yeah, cool. Yeah, you're... But you don't pretend who you are.

No. It's like, this is who I am. And it's so interesting to me that we are having this conversation because I had a conversation recently in this room, but it was off camera. Oh, wow, okay. And it was about how it's interesting to me about how certain guests will sit down, and I feel as if there's a turn on for the camera. Yeah.

Whereas others will come in the door a certain way, but then sit down, be that same way, and leave that same way. And in my mind, I say that consistency to me is what success is. That's successful. Being able to show up as you, fully you. And what I love about you so much is that you have had this tussle with who you are throughout your life, but you reached a point where you showed the world who you are and the world embrace you. And so my ask for you going forward is continue to do that, no matter how much adversity, no matter how much criticism is always show up fully as you because that is success. Amen. Amen. I agree and I can't. And I love that. Even you saying that, even you being like, show up as you, because it just resonate. That's all I've ever had to do. Show up and show up and show up. And now it's at a point where I've got higher successful people being like, oh, you showed up, well done. I'm like, thank you, Paul. Yes, I did. I've been showing up for years. Thank you, Paul. Jesus, take your time getting me on here. It's all right. I'm real friends.

I'm sorry, we didn't get you on early. I'll forgive you, Paul. I know you from the projects, I forgive you. There you go. There you go. There you go. Thank you. Thank you so much. God bless.

Truly precious temple. What I felt in this conversation more than any is how heavily discriminated the gypsy community is to this day. It's one thing to read statistics, but it's another to talk to someone who's actively living through the discriminated. And that's, that's, that's, that's, that's the top item that I walk away with. I mean, how many of us don't have a complicated relationship with our dads? You know, this, this is the more and more that I sit across from phenomenal people, the more and more you see how complicated our lives actually are. and how you can have multiple emotions occupy a single space. You can be upset with someone and have joy at the same time,

love them at the same time. And so truly in her transparency outlined, I think just how human she is by talking about the complications with her father. You know, there's the show, the X factor. And it does stem from the theory of there is an X factor, something that you just can't compute about someone that makes them exceptional, truly has the X factor. I was like, you know what, I need to one up these gays. I'm just going to sprinkle a little bit of like, oh, I kissed a guy at the end. What could that mean? But I did not think that this was

going to officially be my coming out video. I had internalized homophobia, but I wanted to be seen. And that's when I started my YouTube journey. I just remember taking am I gay quizzes. Really? Well, first of all, if you're taking that quiz, you're gay. I started to realize that things with my mom were changing. So there was the strong, independent woman who was so caring and nurturing,

and then there was this very depressed and emotionally abusive version. Darkness definitely took over at 19 when I got the opportunity to move to up. LA, there was like no hesitation. My mom was out visiting me. She was basically saying her goodbyes to me. She said, I just took a bunch of pills and alcohol. And she was overdosing. I remember just looking at her, taken out on a stretcher.

And I said, well, my boyfriend at the time Daniel was traveling. And I was by myself again. I didn't know what to do. Do you believe that you will find love again? Neither of us have been in our relationship sense that could potentially change everything.