We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - We're Talking The Cost of Alcoholism

Episode Date: July 9, 2026

For Alcohol Awareness Week, Backstreet Boys star AJ McLean, and performer Louie Spence, open up about the impact alcohol addiction has had on their lives and families. In this shorter cut from We Need To Talk, AJ reflects on his own journey with alcohol addiction, recovery and the turning point that forced him to confront the double life he was living. Louie shares the heartbreaking reality of growing up with a mother who struggled with alcoholism, the impact her death had on him and his family, and the grief that followed. (00:00) Intro (00:39) What's the Difference Between Alex and AJ? (05:07) AJ Recounts His Rock Bottom Moment With Alcohol (11:00) Louie Talks About His Mother's Alcoholism and the Impact of Her Death on Him and His Family Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Here we go. Someone's already claiming this is our year. Someone else said that last year too. A round of Jameson, Ginger, and Lime arrives at a table. Smooth enough for kickoff, smooth enough for extra time. New friends pulling up a stool. Debates about whether that was a handball. Cheers rising like a roar around the room.

Because match days are about the shared moments. How did Jameson to your match day lineup? Jameson, it's what you bring. Please enjoy our products responsibly. to we're talking. For Alcohol Awareness Week, I'm looking back at two powerful conversations with A.J. McLean and Louis Spence about addiction, sobriety, family, and the pain that alcohol can leave behind. Before we get into today's conversation, I just want to share a content warning. This episode includes discussion of addiction. If you or someone you know need support,

we've included resources in the show notes. Your family, or they know you as Alex, feel like the world knows you as AJ. True. How do you define the difference between the two? You know, it's still a work in progress, but I, when we finished up at the last tour, the DNA tour, we finished it in May of 2023. My wife and I were already separated, so we're living separately. So I kind of had a little bit more freedom to kind of go.

where I want and do what I need for myself. And I decided to take a little trip to Scottsdale, Arizona. Okay. And I did a IOP, and for those that don't know what that is at home, it's an intensive outpatient program for mental health. You know, I was already going into two years sober at the time. So my sobriety was good. But I wanted to dig a little deeper and figure out what was at the root.

of my addiction because a lot of people don't realize that as an addict, the drugs and the drinking, that's all symptomatic. It's not at the core of the issue. It's different for everybody, whether it's PTSD, trauma, abuse. For me, I suffer from a condition I call piece of shitism. So, yeah, I'm going to tell them this. TM, piece of shitism where literally, you know, my entire life, I never felt good enough. I never felt worthy of success or love or respect or compassion or, you know, flattery or, you know, compliments, any of it. So would you say then that you had low self-esteem? Very low self-esteem.

Okay. And it shocked most people because they're like, how can you have low self-esteem and do what you do? And I said, no, it's when I'm on stage, that's my safety bubble. Okay. At least it was. That's my safety bubble. I'm untouchable. I can do what I want, say what I want, be who I am.

And nobody can judge me or they might be judging me quietly, but I'm not hearing it. So when I went to Scottsdale, I did this program three hours a day, five days a week, in a group setting under the premise of love and relationship addiction. Okay. And really dove as deep as I possibly could, more than I've ever in my life, to really try to hone in on my relationship with myself. Like a trot, they call it the trauma track. So you're doing like a week of trauma stuff.

And I didn't think I really had any trauma, but it was suggested by my therapist. So I was like, all right, screw it. I'll go give it a whirl. Whatever. I'm out here for me. I want to do whatever I can to better myself. Yes. And that was a big turning point. Like, it was very intense. And you were chronicling what happened?

Yeah, like going from birth to 17, which really, for me, was at the core of the developing of low self-esteem. And then if you want to come back again for Trauma Track 2, it's 17 to now. Okay. And I didn't really feel that I needed to. At the end of all of it. it, I learned a plethora of things. Number one, authenticity. Number two, that AJ is a character in a band. Alex is who I've always been. It's my government name. I was born in that name. That's who I've been my whole life. But Alex kind of got stifled throughout my 40-year career and AJ just dominated and took over. And AJ was the one, got all the attention. Got all the

attention, you know, good, bad, and the ugly, and thrived off of that, that external validation, that constant need for attention, going above and beyond, telling tall tales, fabricating stories, lying, manipulating all the shit that addicts do. And I was a late bloomer, too. I didn't pick up a drink until I was almost 26. And it just latched on to me. And again, you know, it was a, it was a Band-Aid for what was really going on inside. Do you recall rock-bottom moment? I do, but it wasn't my true rock-bottom. But it was a rock-bottom moment then.

Okay. My rock-bottom was years later. But rock-bottom moment for me then, I swore to myself that I would never do drugs before a show or drink during or before a show. And I held true for a while And it wasn't until the end Before we Had to kind of take the tour down for a minute

And I went to rehab and all those things That I was drinking on stage We had a little skit before the call Where the phone would ring Like the intro to the song And I had a prop phone And I would be like looking at the fans Is that you call me? Is that you call me?

And then I would turn it turn around and look at my band and I'd be like, is it you? Is it you? And I would specifically walk over to our percussion player and he had a red solo cup and everybody out of the audience is going to assume it's water. Right. Just big old quad shot at Jack Daniels. And I would just shoot it and we had two songs left in the show. So towards the end of the encore, the alcohol started kicking in between the heat, the dancing and everything. And I started the buzz. So I was ready to go the minute I walked off stage. Like straight to the bar, I was good to go.

But that was a low for me to like know that I'm now drinking on stage. Right. You know. And you've crossed the boundary that you set for yourself. Yeah. You know, and that. But then you said then years later, it was rock rock. No, rock, rock bottom for me was, which was initially the turning point to really get my shit

together. I had a show in South Beach. And at that time, I had taken pretty much all my dealers out of my phone. And I did the show in Miami, went out, party on a boat, was drinking, met some random people. They had drugs. Did a shit ton of blow. Didn't really. realized around that time was when fentanyl was slowly creeping in. So I dodged a big bullet. But, you know, in my mind, as an addict thinks, you know, if I drink some coffee, I'll mask the smell. If I do this or do that, nobody will be aware. And at the time, my wife knew she had discovered that I had a allergy to vodka. And that was at the time, that was, at the time, that was, was the drink that I was drinking.

I didn't realize I was allergic to tobacco, but my face would get splotchy and break out and shit. So if I didn't FaceTime her, she knew something was up. Or if I FaceTimed her and she saw my face, she would wait for me to be honest. And of course I wasn't until two weeks later. And then, oh yeah, by the way, I was drunk that.

I, you know, she's like, of course I knew. But I flew home. smelled like a bar, hadn't slept in like two days, went to give my youngest a hug, and she wouldn't hug me. And I was like, what's going on, babe? And she's like, you don't smell like my dad. And I've never had a bigger bitch slap, gut check, godshot in my life. And I just felt like the most worthless piece of shit I've ever felt.

And the very next day I went to a meeting and here I am four and a half years. So that single moment changed your life. I will go down in history saying my daughter saved my life. And I don't, 100% think she understands it. I mean, she's extremely intelligent. She's eight, but she's my little genius. Yes. Like eight going on 35 and like.

talking about non-neutonium fluids and stuff with me. I'm like, oh, I'm the, well, what? Yeah. But I share stories from my past with my daughters every year that they're getting older. And I make them more and more graphic intentionally. Not to scare the crap out of them, but I want them to know this was daddy. This is where I hope you both never, ever go down this path. Yes.

they've never seen me drunk and they never have to. And that's a great thing. Look at that. You know, and they both talk about how much, oh, we're never going to drink that. We hate alcohol. I'm like, well, you don't know unless you try it. So you can't say you hate it. Yes.

I said, as your father, I pray that you both have an allergy to it. And, or you may just never even want to try it. Right. What's all so beautiful here is that your daughter is really love. you. Oh, yeah. You know, I can see that. They're my little rider dies, man. They're about them my little homies. Yeah. You know what's interesting is I sometimes get chills when guests say certain things. That moment where you said your daughter saved your life, I got chills. Your summer travels deserve an upgrade. With select Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, and Cadillac

vehicles connected by OnStar, you can stream, game, and more on the go. Whether you're headed to a music festival or a cottage getaway. You can access hundreds of apps on Google Play right from your center display. Explore OnStar Tech today at OnStar.ca and discover how to take your summer to the next level. OnStar. Better never stops. She mentioned your mother in there. You mentioned your mother passing away. And I'd like to, if we could, just talk about how that impacted you.

I mean, I've never spoken about this anywhere before. I mean, when my mum passed, like literally, about two weeks later, I was on Lorraine, and she said, do you want to say anything? And I was like, absolutely not. No one, none of anyone's business. I'm not going to have people giving me sympathy because my mum's died. You know, I don't want that. I don't need it.

But, and I'm sure, I'm absolutely sure, like I say, I'm very close to my family, and I'm sure they won't mind saying the circumstances. I mean, my mum was an alcoholic, but she was a functioning. alcoholic. My nan, her mum, died of alcoholism. My nan's twin sister, my great aunt, my mum's aunt, died of alcoholism. My uncle, my mum's younger brother, just died of alcoholism. So, but my, my mum was always when I was grown up, she was always glamorous. She was beautiful. I mean, she had a great body, you know, she was really glamorous. She was, you know, and I suppose a gay man, a gay boy.

You know, when she used to go out, she'd wearing the eight of these tight tube dresses and beautiful, like Stiletto Hills. And my sister's sometimes, me, mum, you can't go out like that a bit, and mum, you look fantastic. She just looked stunning. She looked beautiful. So my mum always struggled, I think, and this is where I think we, I get it from. I think she was always looking for something that wasn't there, happiness that wasn't there. Anyway, I was in London a lot. So I didn't really notice my mum started to drink, because my mum, when we were younger, was very military.

She'd have two Picardies and Cokes. Wherever she went, that was the limit. Two Picardes and Coke, and she'd have a packet of 10 number six, which were a packet of cigarettes. And that's all the cigarettes she would smoke. She wouldn't drink anymore because, obviously, if she's drunk anymore, she might be sick. It might make her feel anxious.

You know, all of these things, why I've never drunk, why I've never taken drugs, the control. Yes. So she only did what she was in control of. I didn't really know that she had been drinking as long as she had and as much as she was. So she had got to the point where she needed alcohol to get through the day. So if she didn't, she'd wake up the morning, like, I didn't see that.

I go home one day, like, you know, from London, I go, and I look at my mum and I think, she looks a little bit sallow, you know, a bit, you know, she's always got quite a nice tanner, but she just looked a bit sallow, and I was like, Mommy, look a little bit, you feel all right. You look a bit, you know, pasty, a bit. no no no it's fine stay there wake up the next day yellow

I said that there's something not right there I hadn't put two and two together right I took her straight to the the doctors who suggested I take it to A&E and then the doctor in the A&E

took her behind this curtain and started to examiner and I'm the other side of the curtain and I hear her go oh you're going to tend to there da-da-da-da-da-da-da And then he says, well, yeah, Mrs. Spencer,

you were told last year that if you didn't stop drinking, then, you know, she was told the year before she had cirrhosis of the liver, right? And she didn't stop drinking. And then after that, they admitted to a hot hospital and I was doing pantomime and I got a phone call on the 2nd of December. We were told that she had the roast of the liver. she had damaged the liver, part of the liver will never function again, right? This is not a shock to me because she'd have about five years

because she had damaged the liver and the liver normal can replenish itself, but whereas that damaged it can't. So for her age and what liver she has left, the life's best and see, not great, not great, but, you know, okay, we can deal with this. We go home, have tea, about two hours later they tell us you have to come back up to the hospital now. We're like, what? we've just left. We go to the hospital

and they take it into a room my dad and my sisters we had no idea this was coming and said do you want to resuscitate her and we're like, what? You just told us two hours ago she got five years

and now we've just gone home for two hours and come back and you're asking about resuscitating her. And I was like my dad was beside us. I mean, complete shock. You know, there was no sort of build-up to it. Anyway, I actually can't remember what was said.

I think we said, no, we want to resuscitate her. I think we were so shocked. Anyway, we went back into the room. When we went back into the room at this time, she now had this full mask over her face, like a snorkel mask, but completely over her face, with this tube coming out on an oxygen machine, and you can see the levels of oxygen going like this.

So anyway, we stay there. they've given a morphine so she's a bit in and out of consciousness and then they she tries to take the mask off of her face so without this mask she hasn't got oxygen

so she's going to die right because this mask you know thinking you know she leaves it on then she'd get a bit better and then you know but if she takes us off now

the oxygen's so low she will die so then I'm pulling this mask back on her face pushing it on her face calling for the nurse, call it, no one came, right? No one came. We were calling for them. No one came. Anyway, you've got to think, so she's been totally on morphing, like, totally out of it, sort of like this, da-da-da-da-da. I swear to God, she sat bolt-up, right, took the mask off and said, I've had enough. And it's like, mum, I said, you know, if you take this mask off,

you're not going to be able to breathe. She said, I've had enough. as clear, and like I say this whole time she's been like this on the, you know, the oxygen, you're going to bolt upright. That's it. She laid down within 20 seconds, 30 seconds. Literally said, that's it, I've had enough. She went like this and there's this horrible gurgling sound. It's like a gurgle. And then just, boom, she was dead.

and I was very matter of fact as in she was dead I looked at her and I said no longer than two or three minutes I said right then come and let's go got everyone out

my dad said my dad as well so what do we do then oh you need to get a birth right next guy's up there you know birth death certificate and like I say it didn't really hit me

till about three or four years after then I realised she wasn't there and that could I have done something, could anybody's done something. But, you know, the thing is when people die of an addiction, it's really hard because you think, you know, she chose that over my dad, over me, over my siblings. Now, even though we weren't shown physical love, I know how much my parents love us and I know how much my mum loved all of us through the sacrifice and everything she's done

for us. It's still hard to battle with the fact that, you know, to not, to not blame them for choosing that over you. I think, like I say, I always, I always said my mum is her own person. She can choose, that was her choice. You know, and I try and separate it from being my mum to being a human being, and I could make those mistakes anyone could and people have.

But it's really hard if she had chose, you know, you hear about people what have got through it, why didn't she? You know, like I say, my mum was always searching for something that wasn't there, a happiness. I think that she found happiness in alcohol because it made her forget. It made her, you know, and then it got to that point of no return. So she had already gone so far, knowing that she had damaged herself that far. So what's the point of living another however many?

I don't know. I don't know. And, you know, like for my dad. You know, I feel for him. And my siblings, but I don't blame her. You know, I really, really, I promise you, I don't. I'm not angry with her. I'm just sad that, you know, there's so many joyous things that have happened since she passed.

You know, one is thank you for sharing that story. Yeah. Because I know you haven't shared that story. I have never, only because, like, of my family, you know. But like I say, we're a strong family. And I know that my siblings or my dad are not ashamed of my mum. That's one thing. I'm not ashamed of it.

I'm not ashamed that she was an alcoholic. I'm not. You know, she was an incredible mum. She was a wonderful, wonderful person. And, you know, I am part of her as my siblings are. I am the person I am because of her. There was greatness in her and there was love and joy in her. And that's what I'll remember, you know.

So, and there's many people in families who have bigger struggles or going through the same or people going through that. And maybe this conversation would make them look before they've been given that five years left or they can have a whole life. Yes. You know, you can have a whole life left. So, you know, I don't know. It's their choice. I don't know. My mum wasn't strong enough.

I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. You know, I, I, I mean, And there's so many questions I have, but just that story alone tells me so much about you, you know, and how resilient you are and actually how much of a pillar you have not just been, I think, to the community. And I say that there's many communities, but in particular to your family.

How, you know, in those moments, I always see that there's someone who kind of steps up because everyone else is in this fog. I've had various family members and friends pass away. and oftentimes there's that one person that really steps up and takes responsibility for everyone regardless of age. And it sounds like you were that person. Definitely me.

Yeah, for your family. And if you want to hear the full unfiltered stories from today's guest, you can check them out on the We Need to Talk page. Drop a like, leave a comment, and hit subscribe. See you next week.