We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - What No One Tells You About Becoming A Mother

Episode Date: April 30, 2026

Motherhood can feel beautiful, overwhelming and deeply isolating all at once. In this episode of We’re Talking, Cher Lloyd, Georgia Kousoulou and Mel Robbins open up about the side of motherhood no one talks about enough, from postnatal depression and loneliness to shame, identity loss and the pressure to keep going when you don’t feel like yourself. From not bonding with a baby straight away to feeling alone in a house full of people, this is an honest conversation about the hidden struggle so many new mothers face. It is a reminder that motherhood does not always feel the way you expected, and that asking for help can change everything. If anything in this episode brings up difficult feelings, there is support available. We’ve included links below: CALM: https://linkly.link/2dx8H MIND: https://linkly.link/2dx8b (00:00) Intro (00:33) How Cher Balanced Motherhood With Life as a Popstar (02:25) Cher Opens Up About Postnatal Depression (07:10) How Motherhood Changed Georgia’s Life (09:33) The Reality of Postnatal Depression by the Numbers (10:20) Georgia Reveals the Symptoms She Faced (15:27) Why Postnatal Depression Needs to Be Normalised (17:59) Filming a TV Show While Struggling With Postnatal Depression (19:27) An Emotional Message From Mel’s Daughter (21:35) Mel Gets Honest About Motherhood and Marriage (24:02) Mel’s Advice to Parents Supporting Big Dreams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to We're Talking. In this episode, we dive deep into the challenges and triumphs of motherhood with pop star Cher Lloyd, reality star Georgia Kusulu, and podcaster Mel Robbins. Together, they share their personal journeys of balancing career dreams, self-doubt, and the mental load that comes with being a mother. This week, we're talking motherhood. Having children now, and you have this wonderful partner, how does that now impact? the next phase of your career. I'm stressed out. All I keep thinking is,

how am I going to do this? Like, honestly, if it's just me and you talking? Yeah. How am I going to do this? Because the mental load already for a mother is just... It's through the roof. The lists, the constant lists,

the being needed all of the time by two small children. but then at the same time I still have to chase my dream I have to because also my children need to see me fulfill my dreams that's important two girls

watching their mother succeed yes but I would I would argue that the pursuit of your dream is succeeding in your dream yeah yeah

you know it's not the destiny It's the journey. It is. And just those two little girls watching their mom on the journey, that's the win. That's the win. That truly is. And the fact that if you would have asked me this question a year ago when I had a newborn, I would have said I can't do it.

I can't do any of this anymore. I just need to be at home with my children. I was mentally not in a good place. and I don't think I would have ever had an ounce of confidence in myself to ever step back out on a stage.

What was it about a year ago that put you in that space? So after I had my youngest daughter, Eliza, I'd heard about postnatal depression before but I didn't understand what it meant for someone to go through it.

Okay. So what I first started experiencing was real loneliness, but also I doubted myself in everything that I was doing. And I had this overwhelming fear that something was going to happen to my baby. And it started affecting my mental health severely. I had the shakes all the time. I felt sick all the time. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't eat.

It was the worst time of my life when it was supposed to be the happiness. I can't believe I made it through that time. It was awful. I even had situations where I'd be walking down the street with my baby in the pram and I had visions of cars. driving into her. They came out of nowhere. Postnatal depression shook me to my core.

And to be honest, it's made me feel like I can't imagine having more children. I can't. I can't go through that again. Awful. This is something that is not talked about enough. No. How did you come out the other side?

It took me a really long time. I felt like I didn't want to leave the house. I didn't know who I was anymore, to be honest. I really didn't. I completely lost myself. And that's why when you asked me what I was proud of. Yes. I say being a mother,

because even though that was the hardest time of my life, my children were always safe. I protected them and they always came first even though my mental health took the biggest blow ever and I think the only way out of it

was one time I needed time I put too much pressure on myself after I had my baby the pressure to bounce back which I think is ridiculous women do not need

to bounce back after pregnancy. That should not be a thing, and I hate that that's pushed on to women. What I feel new mothers need to do is to give themselves a break. Take time for you, and I wish someone could have told me that it was going to be all right,

and that being a mother is hard. Being a mother is hard. It's really hard. But there is a light at the end of the tunnel. And whether that be picking up the phone and calling your GP, call your GP, tell them that you need help. And they will help you. I did it.

They helped me. And now I'm in such a better mental state. Yeah. You know, what you just said is profound because we have to remember, especially in traumatic experiences, we feel like we're alone in it. We have to understand that we are never alone. And help is a call away. It is. It is a message away.

It is expressing to your loved ones. I don't feel okay. Yeah. That is the beginning of you saving your life. It really is. Thank you for sharing that because postnatal depression does not get enough dialogue, but in particular that so many women go through this. Yeah.

Right. And so therefore you are not alone. Yeah. You know. Having Brody, you become a mom. Yeah. How does that change your life? Completely changed my whole life.

I was like, what is this life? To my honest. I was like, whoa, this is a lot. I was like, this is hard. And it just like threw me in. think I've realized that when you're pregnant, you're like, I'm pregnant. I love to being pregnant. You get so much attention if I was really nice to you. And I was filming Tawi when I was pregnant. And, you know, I got to go in later and, you know, it was just grey. And, you know, everyone's

like, oh, you're lovely. And I loved it. I had so much confidence as well being pregnant. I wore really tight dresses and I was like, love the bump. I couldn't believe it. I shocked to myself. And then you think you're going to be pregnant forever. I didn't think I realized that I've actually had got to have a baby. And then Brody turned breach And I was like, oh no I've got a C-section And then that was petrifying

But I just I don't think I even knew what to expect I'm going to be honest You leave the hospital Yeah Come home Yeah

Right Wild Wild What makes it wild Whole house full of people First grandchild on both sides It was like Jesus has been born

Yes And I was really happy Because I love people But I was like well this is a lot. But I was kind of wanting the people there because I was like, help me, what am I doing? And I was a bit like, what now? Don't leave me. I was like, Mom, do not leave me. Where are you going? She's like, I'm just going. No, no, no, no. I think she stayed there for two weeks. Do not leave me. I was like, do not leave me. I'm petrified. Do not leave me.

She like, you're fine. No, no, don't leave me. It was the weirdest thing. I definitely struggled, definitely mentally. Now looking back, I weren't right, really. I weren't right. I was very, I really, really struggled because I didn't know what to expect. And I never forget feeling really, really lonely in a house full of people. And I remember I used to take myself off to the bathroom and cry a lot.

And I didn't realize that Tommy realized I kept crying and I would do the night feeds and I would like cry and be like, this is scary, this is a really scary place. And I didn't realize I was in this place. But it was a dark place, to be honest, because I was a bit like, I was a bit like, what is this life? What have I done, really? So when you reflect back, do you feel like you were going through postpartum?

100%. Okay. Yeah. So, you know, I was looking at postpartum, and here's what I didn't realize about it, was how prevalent it is. So, technically, postnatal depression. Right? It's a type of depression that many parents experience after having a baby. Main symptoms include low mood. Yeah.

Exhaustion. Yeah. Difficulty bonding with the baby. Yeah. Extreme anxiety or irritability. Yeah. But here's what I didn't realize was how common. So it affects more than 10% of women within a year of giving birth.

Wow. And it could also affect fathers. Mad. Which I didn't realize. No. So when you think about those behaviors for you or the symptoms, should I say, what were your symptoms? When you're a mid-sized business, you need every competitive advantage you can get. Like an AI solution that works for you, not against you.

SAP Grow is built with AI embedded at its core, working across every system. And it's ready to go from day one so you can hit the ground running. Bring it with SAP Grow. AI Cloud ERP for any size business. I couldn't bond. I didn't know how to bond. And the hardest bit about parenthood for me was everybody said to me, which they shouldn't have said to me, which I don't blame them, but I do.

When you have this baby, you're going to get this overwhelming feeling of love. And you're going to bond instantly. It's this instant mother's instinct and this connection. So when it didn't happen to me, I thought, oh my God, knew it, there's something wrong with me. There was something wrong with me. I should have stuck with dogs. I was so in my head. I was like, I know I love this thing, this human, but also kind of like an alien because I don't actually know you. I remember thinking, I don't know you, but I love you. I know I love you. That was certain. I knew I loved him. But I thought, how do I bought,

how come I haven't got this bond? And I was thinking, maybe it's delayed. It's delayed. And then everyone said, you're going to know what to do. And I kept thinking, everyone said, there's this mother instinct that kicks in and you know what to do. But I didn't know what to do. And I thought, oh my God, it's that wrong with me again? What's wrong with me? And I was just, I was so in my own head that I kept thinking, why have I not got this mother's instinct that everyone told me I was going to get?

Yes. And when you reflect back, Georgia, what was the hardest day of that period for you? Day three and ten. You remember? I remember it day three and ten. Yeah. I don't know why, day three and ten. And it only got better when Tommy said it out loud in front of my mum, his mum and the midwife.

Okay, so he had to say it. He said it. He said, she's not right, by the way. So day three, for example, what was going on for you, day three? I was just everything. I was like, I didn't even recognise myself in the mirror. I was like, what is this person? I didn't look like me.

I had this person on me. I was like, this alien person. I was like, how am I going to keep the person alive? I kept worrying, how am I going to keep in my life? And I was like, I know I've got a feed in a bottle, but I was like, how do I know? I was like, everything I was picking up, how do I know, how am I going to do this? I was always thinking, is he okay, is it okay, is it okay, is okay? And then I thought, oh my God, is this going to last forever, this, this tiredness, like,

all like I couldn't see past the night feeds and the days, and they all blurred into one. And it was, I had so many, so much love around me, and everyone was so excited about this beautiful baby, and his healthy baby. And I thought, why am I not as excited as everyone else? And you didn't tell anyone. No, not one person. I was ashamed because I thought they're judging me. And I thought, this makes me a bad person.

Because I thought, how am I not happy? How can I not be happy about a newborn baby? That's terrible. It wasn't obviously terrible, but I couldn't get out of my own head. I thought, this is terrible. And everyone was like, it's the best thing in the world. And I was like, no, I know it is. And he's unbelievable and I love him.

But why am I not as happy as all of you's? Like, this is weird. If you could go back and be with you on day three or day 10, what would you have done or told yourself? I've hugged myself and said, this is so normal. This is so normal. This is so normal. This is you.

And you're fine. And this is just your emotions. You've got hormone raging through your body. This is totally normal. And you've had, you've been cut open multiple layers. You had a C section. You are fine. You're doing amazing.

Like, you are fine. It's going to get better. It's going to get easier. are to give yourself a break. I'd have gave myself a cup of tea and gone, you're fine. Okay. Yeah. Is that what happened after Tommy saw what was going on with you

and then told people out loud? Oh my God, instant change. He, I never forget, it was in the kitchen. I was on the sofa, had the baby in my arms, had the midwife. The midwife, her name was Pat. She was unbelievable. And I had her a lot.

And I'd hurt my mum and Bev all the time. They were there. And Tommy said to everybody, because they were like, how are you? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, good thanks, yeah, yeah. That's just the way I do. I'm good at it, right? And he said, no, she's not. She is not right.

And all of a sudden, everyone looked at me and I burst into tears. And everyone was so shocked. Because I think they just thought I was like tired and stuff, you know. And I burst in tears and then I was like, it all come out. I was like, I'm struggling. I don't know what I'm doing. And from that day, my whole experience changed. That's true.

What do you think would have happened if he had not said that? I don't know, you know. Scary to think about it because it only would have got worse, you know, because them night feeds go on, three months, which was actually really quick for some babies, bro. But three months is a long time to feel lonely, you know, and your faults go into place, you lose yourself. I was just so, I didn't know what I was doing.

Like, just walking to the shop was a lot. Like, everything was a lot. I'm so thankful to him to stay that he did that. And at the time I was fuming, by the way, I looked to him and I remember thinking, how dare you? How dare you say? Like, I was fuming. But then when I cried, I was like, now I'm like, thank God. Yeah, you were able to race.

It's one of these where this is, one is, thank you for sharing that, is I would imagine you think that the more of these conversations that we have, we normalize this. And we realize that because one is we have a significant number of women that are impacted by this, a significant number of men impacted by this. And having that conversation just to be aware that, you know what, this is normal. So normal. Yeah. And do you know what? Looking back now, there weren't a lot of people in the public eye saying that. There weren't anyone that I could, that admitted they struggled.

And I really, really found that hard because I'd look on social media. It'd be like these girls would be having babies and I'd be like, why have they got their life together? They're really like, and it'd make me feel really bad about myself and it weren't their fault. But like, there was no one opening up and I was like, so I used to think it was just me. No one was talking about body image and how it affected them,

how they lost themselves or how they didn't look like themselves, how they didn't bond with their baby. No one was saying that because, and I get it, because everyone felt ashamed. I wouldn't even, I weren't even saying it really. So I couldn't expect other people. people too so I think it's so important because how many other women are sitting there thinking that you know yes you know and it's like if I would have had that person to go

oh yeah I'm not alone you know and I know that I definitely will help people like talking about it because it was a lonely time yes it's so normal but it's so normal and look you know look what's happened as a result is that you have now or as a result of Tommy you know outing you yeah is is that you were able to emotionally get it out of you. Yeah. But then you said things got better. Oh, my God, unbelievable.

So did you feel like literally it was once you didn't feel the pressure of the shame, yeah. That's when it started to go away. I was like instantly like, wow, this is normal. Okay, cool. If I want to cry today, I'm going to cry. If I don't want to get up my pajamas, I'm not going to. It was all normal.

And I was filming my show as well. So I was trying to juggle, wait, hang on a minute. Because I was so, our show is very, very raw. Like it is so fly on the wall. It is so flat at the world. And I remember filming the whole series of our dramas, basically. And I was like, I'm not changing because. So this is not tired.

This is the solo show, baby steps. Yeah. Multiple series of baby steps, by the way. Six series. Yeah. Congrats on that. Thank you. That's not bad.

That's not bad. Yeah. So you're filming the show while this is happening. Yeah. You're probably hiding it from production. Yeah. Hiding it, obviously, from the audience. Yeah.

Do you ever showcase it? Yeah. Showcase everything. Okay. Because what happened was Tommy's out in me was we just started properly filming. So everything was, I was literally filmed the whole series looking back in my pajamas. Look at that. Basically, like, no one, everyone does it now, but back then, like, no one did that.

Like, no one was on camera like that. Like, I mean, I even got my belly out. I think I was in half of the days, sleep deprived, and just went with it, which was actually great now. but it was so raw that footage of that series was so raw I like look like if you look at my eyes I'm like I don't know what I'm doing

I couldn't even tell you the day of the week it was you know like I was in it yes I'm glad actually why because I'm glad I didn't hide it because it's the first time my life that I never hid how I felt actually so you stopped deflecting yeah that's why the show was good I think

because you were your true authentic because I couldn't hide it because I didn't know how to that was the first time I didn't know how to to because I was like, whoa, I'm watering now. I'm like in the deep end. And I don't like swimming. Like, I'm like in the sea around me.

And I was like, it was baby. I couldn't deflect. There was no hide in it, do you know? Yes, yes. I have a surprise for you. Okay. I've been waiting. Okay.

To hand the surprise one for you. Uh-oh. I cannot wait. What do you got? You ready for this? Yeah. Hi, Mom. Oh, hi, hi, Soie.

This Sawyer here. I'm Mel's oldest. daughter. I have so many things to say, but I think that you guys have done such an amazing job at really showing your love for each other, always kissing in the kitchen and telling each other how much you love each other. And I think that you guys also do a phenomenal job at communication and communication doesn't always translate

when you're pissed off or you're drunk or you're annoyed but I think that you guys always come back together and have such good talks and I think it's really cool to see you guys

implementing what you guys are learning in therapy and really growing from it I think is me Kendall and Oakley are in our 20s trying to seek out the love of our lives. I will say that it has made it very difficult because we are always comparing everyone else out there to the two of you. I just feel very, very, very grateful to have been shown that example growing up.

So thank you so much. Love you all. Have an amazing interview. Bye. That's freaking fantastic. I loved this message. This was beautiful. In particular, what I loved is you can see the gratitude that she has.

I mean, you think about how special that is for her to say, I just love being around you. Yeah. I love me around you. Here's the other thing that's important to recognize, and I'm not proud to share this. There were periods of our lives that she remembers where she would miss the bus, and she'd have to wake me up in bed because I was so depressed I was not getting out of bed.

You know you're failing to parenting when you're having to have your kids wake you up. There are mornings where they would come downstairs and both Chris and I were passed out in the living room because we had drunk too much and had been fighting. And so they have been there for the good and the bad. And she also mentioned that, you know, we talked to a marriage therapist

And I think therapy gets a really bad rap. And I hate the word mental health because people immediately think something's wrong. Mental health is happiness. Mental health is managing stress. Mental health is having the clarity and the confidence to be able to communicate effectively. Mental health is your resilience in life. Mental health is the way you talk to yourself. Don't you want that?

Of course you do. And so one of the things that have really helped us is we do talk to a marriage therapist. It's not because anything's wrong. but because I don't want anything to be wrong. Sure. And there is a million ways for small things to build up. And it just creates this moment for us to go. He literally opens our session by going,

so what do you guys want to talk about today? Right. And I'm like, I don't know, what do you want to talk about? And then lo and behold, there's always something. Right. There is. You know, when you talked about quiet quitting a little while ago, that's this ambivalence in essence in the marriage.

60, 70% of people who go to therapy, it's because of this ambivalence. It's not because there's a severe issue that they're fighting. So you're right. Just to go is helpful. Motherhood. Yes. Because motherhood, right now, it looks good on you.

Well, I'm really good mom for adult kids. For adult kids. Well, I think it's important to give yourself some grace. Like, there are periods where you're not going to like it. I like other people's babies. I didn't particularly like having, well, actually, that's not true. I kind of liked having babies. I did not like toddlers.

I did not like elementary school phase. Middle school, I started liking and feeling like I could connect with my kids more. High school, definitely interesting. College, now we're talking. Yes. Adul. Now motherhood gets interesting. And so I think it's important to understand that you don't have to be the best for every phase.

Giving yourself grace is really important. And the other thing that I think is very important, especially for the women watching and listening. is every mom or dad wants their kids to pursue their dreams. Who the hell is going to show them how to do it? Your kids are watching. And for women who hold themselves back and feel guilty because they travel or they have to work too much or this and that, I'm here to tell you that if you have something in your heart

that you want to pursue, you are both robbing yourself and more importantly, your kids of that opportunity. The example that I have given and that my husband has given, that you can work together, but the example that I have given as a woman, that you can go out and create something at any age, you can jump into something like podcasting and tech as a 50-year-old woman and actually build something incredible or heck, just build something that you're excited about that's yours. It shows your kids that it's possible.

It shows your daughters how to do it, and it shows your sons how to support their partner in doing it. Yes, yes. And if you want to hear the full unfiltered stories from today's guest, you can check them out on the We Need to Talk page. Drop a like, leave a comment, and hit subscribe. See you next week.