We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Why I Walked Away From My £100M Fashion Brand!

Episode Date: August 26, 2025

Adam Frisby, founder of In The Style, speaks out for the first time about the rise and fall of his £100M fashion empire. From launching with just £1,000 and packing orders in his bedroom, to working with celebrity collaborators like Charlotte Crosby and Stacey Solomon, Adam built one of the UK’s most recognisable fashion brands. But behind the success was a story of hidden scars, resilience, and starting over. In his most personal interview yet, Adam reveals why he walked away from In The Style, the £100 million court case that nearly broke him, and how the pressure of running a public company pushed him to the edge. He opens up about being kicked out of his mum’s house at 15, hiding his sexuality and the shame he carried for years, and the moment he nearly got pulled into a world of crime before choosing a different path. Now, as Adam launches a new fashion brand and prepares to become a dad through surrogacy with his partner Jamie, he reflects on family, identity, and what success really means. Adam shares: ◽ The childhood trauma and rejection he hid for years ◽ How In The Style became a fashion empire - and what went wrong ◽ The £100M court case that left him at rock bottom ◽ Why he surrendered everything to start again ◽ How surrogacy is helping him become the dad he always needed Adam Frisby, We Need to Talk. Follow me here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk  https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod Follow Adam Here: Instagram: https://g2ul0.app.link/47Ugp7AF2Vb TikTok: https://g2ul0.app.link/ZnoRqBEF2Vb  (00:00) Intro (01:59) What Was Adam's Childhood Like and How Did It Shape Him? (03:23) Adam's Experience of Moving to Spain at 13 (08:05) How Adam Navigated His Sexuality as a Teenager (10:26) Adam's Experience of Being Kicked Out of His Mum's House at 15 (15:16) How Adam Came Out to His Family (17:42) Moving Out of His Dad's House at 16 (19:53) Adam's First Jobs and His Journey to Entrepreneurship (21:30) How Adam Started In The Style (25:26) How In The Style Grew and Its First Celebrity Collaborations (31:30) A Message from Charlotte Crosby (35:20) How Successful Was 'In The Style' Initially? (41:45) In The Style Becoming a Public Company (44:59) Treatwell Ad (46:13) Tinder Ad (47:27) What Were the Causes for the Decline of In The Style? (54:24) Adam's Mental and Physical Health During the Turbulent End of His Time at In The Style (01:01:27) The End of In The Style (01:08:59) Adam's Relationship with His Partner Jamie (01:11:42) A Letter from Jamie (01:14:56) Adam and Jamie's Experience of Having a Baby Through Surrogacy (01:26:55) Social Media Reaction to Adam and Jamie's Baby News (01:29:20) Adam's New Business (01:31:03) Most Memorable Conversation (01:34:19) Paul's Takeaways (01:35:58) Love Better Tour Ad Sponsored By: Treatwell: http://Treatwell.co.uk with code PAUL20 - T&Cs apply Tinder: https://tinder.com/en-GB Get Your Tickets to the Love Better Tour: https://bit.ly/lovebetter-YT SyncID MB01OC25C1FD8VV Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help. You're racing thoughts and restless nights won't stand a chance. Find Ollie's sleep solutions for the whole family at ollie.com. That's OLLL-Y.com. When I was around 16, my dad was into criminal things, the drugs, the house would get raided. This isn't how I wanted my life to be. So I started in the style and the business was valued at £100 million. Post-COVID, there was less interest around fashion businesses.

And Boohoo, ASOS, starting to decline. The team at the time, they were kind of like, we're going to have to possibly shut down. But I thought, I can't let this slip away now. And then we're afraid on the stock market. I did become a millionaire. But the reality was everything changed. I've never really spoken in detail about it.

I got a legal letter for the first time. with Sue and Adam Frisbee for 100 million pounds because he stole this idea from this guy. Although I was ultimately the heart of the business, I didn't have a say, people were crying down the phone to me, saying, Adam, we're not being paid. I looked online, and I saw it at the business being sold.

I loved it so much, and I hoped that I would always be part of it, but in the end, I sent a letter of resignation. I surrendered all of my shares, and I left, and I never heard back forever. I can see that everything that's happened in your life has led you to this point.

You're going to be a dad? And we're bringing a child into the world that is going to have so much love. My biggest fear in life is that I'm not a good dad. You both will be winning father of the year consistently. I have no doubt. A quick one for me before we get into it. I want to say thank you. Genuinely thank you.

It means so much that you're here. The team and I put a lot into these conversations. And seeing how much they're resonating is really amazing to see. If you've been enjoying what we do, we'd love for you to follow the show by clicking the subscribe button or hit that bell icon. It takes a second, but it makes a huge difference. Now, let's get into it. Adam Frisbee, we need to talk. Yes.

Okay. So when you think back, what was your earliest memory as a child? If I'm really honest, when I think back to my childhood, I struggle sometimes because I've blocked so much of it out. And yeah, I want to say like, you know, it wasn't horrendous in the sense of, you know, I had no abuse, I had nothing like that. You know, there's people that have gone through much worse situations. But I think for me, I just remember I grew up in, I think, a surroundings where I didn't really feel a lot of love, if that makes sense, at home. And I think my earliest memory is just really, I think, like my mum and me just arguing all the time, even from as young as like six, seven, eight years. old. But I also, on the flip side, you know, I have a memory at a very similar time of having

a really nice Christmas with my family, my nan and granddad being there. And, you know, there were some really nice memories as well. When you now reflect back on childhood and the relationship that you had with your parents or a lack of relationship, you know, maybe with your father, how do you think that that time shaped who you've become? I just remember being very lost as a child, not knowing who to turn to, where to go, what to do. And, obviously, Obviously, you know, quite finding out I was kind of gay as well, come to terms of that. And I just, I think that's made me more of a fighter today, if that makes sense. It's made me more determined to achieve something.

It's made me, yeah, it's definitely shaped who I am hugely. At 13, your family moved. Yeah. Yeah. So I came home from school one day and my mom just said, we are going to Grand Canaria. We're moving to Grand Canaria. And if I remember rightly, I think it was literally the next day. maybe the day afterwards but you know things were packed up my i remember saying where's my bmx you know

and she's like we've sold it and it was so crazy and you know i was really scared as a kid because i i love school well i loved my education and i i was conscious that i wanted to achieve some of my life and and you know that was my first thing that kind of hit me but more than that i was really close to my nan and my family and i was like what you know what am i going to do so that was a really traumatic event for me my family were concerned and i remember my nan you know in the the evening before kind of coming over and asking questions like what's going to happen with the boys and you know are they going to go to school and we were promised we go to an english school and you know it would be great and they'd come over and we'd come back and visit and you know i thought well i've got no choice

you know we've kind of got to do it so we moved there but none of that none of that happened you know we got put into a spanish school quite quickly um and nobody spoke english so we were literally and you didn't speak spanish i didn't speak any spanish no so we literally were like drawing crossword doing cross words drawing picture like it was it was really bad and it got i think we were a few days in and because we didn't speak any english and we were like the new kids in school like we got quite badly bullied like we'd go out in the playground and we'd get stones thrown at us and it got really bad that me and my brother ended up skyvinoff school for like the entire six months um that followed and i'm sure that you know i don't know for sure but i'm pretty sure my mom

knew about it because the school would have contacted her right so we just used to go eight o'clock leave the house, go sit in a park somewhere and literally wait until one, I think it was one 30th, the school finished and go home. And we did that every day for like six months. You know, so incredible and sad at the same time about that is one is that you and your brother, and your brother was how old, you were 13. So he was 18 months younger than me. So yeah, he was about, yeah, like just 11 and a half, 12.

Yeah. Two young guys. Actually, almost the age of my boys. They're 14 and 11, you know. And I cannot imagine them decide. to do something like that. Yeah. But that's why it's almost incredible that you were able to decide that.

But sad because it feels like there was no one that you can go to that you felt safe to be able to say, hey, we're being bullied at school. Yeah, totally. And home was really bad at the time. You know, we, I remember, you know, what I will say is, you know, with my mom, like, I look back and I understand how hard it must have been trying to raise four children. And, you know, my dad leaving. And, you know, for a long, long time, I was really, really angry at her because of, you know, our relationship and everything.

But I think over time, I'd sort of let that go and it's more kind of sadness now, really. And I remember that I used to write letters to, like, my nan, to kind of let her know I was feeling and how down I was about it. And I found out, you know, months and months later that those letters never got sent. They went to my mum to be put a stamp on and they never actually made it to my nan. So, yeah, it was a time where I felt so isolated and there was nothing I could do. And I couldn't even speak to the people I love because I had no phone. I got maybe a phone call a week and my mom would sort of sit there and listen to everything. So I felt very trapped at that stage.

And looking back, it was a really traumatic time for me. My God, how long were you in Spain? So we went to Spain for, I can't remember exactly, but we were there for like maybe six to 12 months originally. And what actually happened was I ended up moving back to the UK. I live with my sister, my older sister for a little while. So she knew what was going on at that point. come over to visit. I don't think she was very happy. She said to my mum, like, these boys

need to be back in the UK. Let's try and get them in school. And my mum kind of let us go with my sister, which I was just thrilled about at the time. But my sister was young. I mean, I can't remember age at the time, but she would have been an early 20s. So she was kind of finding her feet and like, you know, had her lifestyle. And it was chaotic. You know, there's no doubt, but she tried her best and we lived with her for a while. And I got to a point, I think at this point, it must have been 14 and a half maybe. And maybe in 15. And I had, um, I had, um, there's I'd started seeing a therapist at the time. My nan had, we were back in the UK,

and my nan had put me in to kind of see a counselor therapist, and they'd put me on some antidepressants, and I was in a really low place. Because obviously for me, my mum didn't really want us, and I was living with my sister, who had her own sort of life going on, and I didn't go to school at this point. I had no friend.

You know, I knew I was gay, and no one knew. So it's a very chaotic time in my life. You said you knew you were gay, but no one else did. No, no one knew, no. Yeah, I knew I was gay, I think, from a young age. I'd say probably like 9, 10. I just knew it was a little bit different. And I knew like, it sounds probably strange to say,

but like I probably just had certain connections when I would like, you know, meet certain boys or whatever. And I think, you know, that feels a bit stronger than a friendship. Like I, I don't know, I feel something. It's a bit strange. So I kind of just tried to hide it for a long time. But deep down, I kind of knew that I was. Yeah.

But I just didn't feel comfortable enough to tell anyone. And I think people knew. Like, you know, I used to, obviously my brother used to take the Mickey be like, you're game, you know, or whatever, you know, in a jokey way as you would as siblings. I think my sister kind of had an inkling and probably the family, you know, you kind of do sometimes. But yeah, I was too scared to kind of say anything and I was trying to come to terms of it myself really at the time. Yeah. So how did you and when did you come to terms with it? It took me a very long time.

I would say I didn't really truly come to terms of it until I met Jamie really. How old were you there? I was 24, 24, 25 when I met Jamie, yeah. Okay, I think so. Yeah. So until you were 24, you never felt no, truly happy in who you knew you were. Yeah, I felt, I felt ashamed, yeah. I felt ashamed of being gay for a long time.

And I don't truly know why, because I had gay people in my family. My uncle was gay, my sister ended up coming out as a lesbian. So, like, I did have people around, but I just carried. that shame and I think I think in truth it stemmed from childhood and not feeling very wanted and I think that in addition made me feel like I'm going to feel even less wanted. I would imagine as a 15 year old who already doesn't feel safe yeah who feels marginalized yeah you don't want to at all signal to anyone yeah that there's something else that can be different about you yeah so that therefore you could be further marginalized exactly yeah what seems to me is that you were at a

where you were just looking for an escape. Yeah. Was there any joy in your life as a young boy? No, there wasn't truly. And like I say, you know, I don't want to, you know, there's people that go through so much worse. But I think, yeah, I just was in a really, I just was a really lost young boy. And I guess to make matters worse, did your mother kick you out?

Yes. So that was really the last, I sort of had a relationship with my mom, really. So I was 15 years old and we probably had an argument. I was never a bad kid, you know, I never did drugs. I never did lied. I never did anything bad in that sense. I just probably was a little bit hard work because I was struggling myself at times. And we just used to argue.

But can we explain on that? Is that when you said you were hard work? Yeah. What does that mean? Well, to be honest with you, it doesn't really mean anything. I think I was just a kid. I think I was just a teenager. And honestly, when I see teenagers now,

I think I wasn't half as bad as that. I think the only thing I really wanted was to feel a bit of love, really. And yeah, I didn't. So I probably used to fight for that a little bit, you know. So we used to argue a lot. And yeah, I just remember one day I got my things packed. And she said, you're going, you go and get out. And they drove me to the train station.

They gave me 50p on the platform. They said to me, yeah, you use that to ring you down when you get to the train station. and that's it you're on your way. So I was on the train to Norwich and I got to the train station and I run my nan when I got there and she came and picked me up from the train station and yeah that was kind of the end of my relationship

with my mum really and I went to sleep on my nans my nan put a mattress on a kitchen floor because my uncle was living with her still at the time so she had no kind of spare room so I was there for a few weeks really just kind of thinking wow what like what the hell am I going to do with my life I've got no GCSEs I've got no parents around and, you know, I don't know what to do.

And I remember that being a real kind of crossroads of like, shit, this is, this is going to be tough now. Yeah. I can't, I can't fathom what it's like to be a 15 year old boy and to be literally kicked out of the house. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So when you are on the, when you were given the money, if you can even, you can even, if you feel comfortable going there, is what was, what were you thinking?

What was going on in your mind as this scenario was playing out? I think I was just pleased to escape from what was a really toxic time because my mom's boyfriend and I really didn't get on. You know, I remember before I got kicked out being held by my throat against the fridge and like it was really toxic. So I was pleased to be out of it. So then you're temporarily with them. I would imagine it's temporary.

Yeah, it was temporary. It was really temporary actually. I was there for a few weeks and my nan sort of said to me, look, I think you should try and make contact with your dad because, you know, we can't have you here forever and what are you going to do down here? You know, it was in great armour at the time and I grew up and, you know, there wasn't loads of opportunities there and whatnot. So she was like, I think you need to try and contact your parents. So I did contact my dad. I made contact with him and for whatever reason in the end, he did kind of agree that he would see me and we kind of met up and, yeah, one thing led to enough. and he kind of agreed that I could go and stay with him for a bit.

Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, so I was nervous. I remember being nervous because he'd not been in my life at all, so I didn't know my dad whatsoever. But it was kind of a bit like, okay, I've got, you know, someone here that's interesting, that wants to take me in. Was this the first time that you'd seen your dad? You're not the first time I'd ever seen him.

Like, there had been bits where, I don't know, like maybe when I was younger, he'd turn up once at the house, and I kind of seen him and, you know, but I'd never, I'd never spent time with him or anything like that. It was just very much, like, in passing or something. So it was the first time that I'd properly met him, yeah. Okay. Yeah, and he had four daughters, which I kind of knew about growing up because you obviously

get told, but I didn't really know the full extent. And he was with the lady that he, the woman that he left my mum for, so they were still together. And yeah, he said I could come and stay with him for a bit and see how we'd go on. So I was happy that I had an option, if that makes sense at the time. Yeah. I started to apply for jobs. straight away.

And I remember I got an interview at Burger King and I managed to get a job there. So I was thrilled because I was like, this is great, I can earn some money. Yeah, it was amazing really. So for the first few weeks, I felt, I think, content, happy. I remember reporting back to my nan being like, yeah, this is like quite good really, yeah.

Yes. When you look at just those first few weeks, do you feel as if you were happy? I think I was happier than I've been for a long time. I was still uncomfortable because, you know, I was struggling my sexuality at the time. And I was then at that age of like coming into 16, just turning 16, where, you know, you start to explore a little bit more. You know, maybe I was speaking to someone online at the time because obviously, you know, that's the only way I could really sort of chat. And there was like online chats and stuff.

And, yeah, I started speaking to a guy through that. But I kind of made a girl's name up at the time. And I remember telling him, yeah, my dad and her that I kind of had been. speak to this girl I've been sort of going to go meet her and yeah it turned it it it was a girl but in reality it was it was a boy and I did that I did that for probably a good two years wow so you'd keep it even secret I would imagine in the town yeah yeah everything couldn't be in public no we just used to go in like meet somewhere meet for coffee like they used to yeah we just never went to each other's houses or anything like that and

because I hadn't come out to my family even like my nan and grander at that point I kept a secret from them I told them the girl's name and it wasn't because I felt they would be ashamed but I I think it was just obviously where I was in my life. I wasn't yet comfortable to tell people. And eventually I kind of did tell my nan was the first person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

When you told your nan, what was her response? It was a really emotional call because I wasn't with her at the time. I was obviously my dad's. And I think what happened is I think my uncle had said something. So my uncle was gay. and I think he'd sort of said something around me being gay and I think there was a question that had come up in the family and I thought, do know what, I need to be able to do this myself.

I don't want her to find out for other people. And yeah, so I run her and I sort of said, you know, this girl that I've been talking to you about, it's not a girl, it's a guy. And yeah, she got really upset and I got upset. But in a nice way, you know, she was like, you know, you really didn't have to worry about this. And yeah, I felt a huge amount of really.

relief because I've carried it for a number of years feeling like I was ashamed of who I was and people wouldn't accept it. So to kind of be able to sort of tell the first person, the person was closest to, and then being so supportive of it made me think, you know, it's not so bad out there. You know, I can kind of be myself more. Yeah. Yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah. You know, to, to be able to say that to someone that you love. Yeah. And know that their love is truly unconditioned. Yeah, totally, yeah. Now, you mentioned Adam that first few weeks were good at your father's, but then it took a turn. So how so? Yeah. I realized probably after a few weeks that my, that they were kind of into more criminal things is the only way I can describe it really.

The house would get raided sometimes. There was things going on, you know, drugs, being things being stolen. You know, it got a bit hectic. And yeah, that kind of happened. And I was a bit worried about what I was going to do. And I think there was a couple of conversations that happened about getting me involved in things. And I would just remember thinking, do I do this? Or do I do my own path? And, you know, even at that young age at 16, I knew my morals and values were very important.

to me and I just like doing the right thing was always important so I just knew I was never going to do that and I think you just started to get uncomfortable because things start to mix a little bit you know like I start to get questions of like you know do you think you could do this at where you work for me and it started to become uncomfortable and so very quickly I kind of yeah ended up moving in with a friend that I've made at the time from from working so you moved in with a friend yeah now this is an interesting word yeah because I've not heard you use that word yeah I made a friend I know yeah yeah yeah So you had a friend. I made a few friends actually at work. And I think getting in a workplace was a really positive thing for me. Now you just mentioned 16 is when really your life changed. That was, I would imagine, that's a major inflection point for you of 16. And it's what put you on the path of entrepreneurship. So how so?

How did you then, or should I say, begin your entrepreneurial journey at 16? Yeah. So Burger King, ironically, like, really played a big part in my life. It did. And, you know, when there's ever been talking to business now, people say, you know, Burger King to, you know, and it's like, it didn't quite happen. You know, like that. Burger King to Millionaire.

Yeah. It's something quite like that. But it really shaped me. And I got, you know, I got really enjoyment out of sort of working hard and earning money from it and thinking, okay, this is how life works and I really enjoy this. And very quickly, like, they were really impressed with me and gave me more hours. And I remember, I think before 17, I'd become one of the region, the youngest regional supervisor or something. Oh, well.

Yeah. So, I mean, for me, I was chuffed with that. I was like, this is such an achievement. And it kind of made me hungry to achieve more, if that makes sense. I was like, this is something that we're shouted about, I think, through, you know, you get emails through the system or whatever. And, you know, it was like, congratulations to Adam where he's employee the month. He's done this. He's done that.

And I really, I really felt reward from that, if that makes sense. It was like, great. I've done hard work and I've been recognized for it. probably hadn't through my childhood much so I think that really felt like okay I've achieved something here yeah and then I went for a job at Barclays which you know I can say this now but I completely lied on my CV you know about GCSEs and hope that I would get away with it and I did and I think 17 and a half probably I became a cashier at Barclays okay yeah and then the next few years really at Barclays really shaped my career because I became a personal banker where

I was kind of advising people on you know bank accounts and stuff like that so when you were at Barclays at that at that highest level how old were you at that time so I think by the age of 18 I think I'd become a personal banker at Barclays which was a really you know good job I loved it had my own desk kind of in the in the bank hall and yeah would speak to customers I was 18 yeah yeah no I mean look at that though yeah 18 you're making I'm sure good money yeah yeah at this point you have a friendship circle yeah I would imagine. Yeah, I was really coming into my own. I moved to Manchester at 19, and I was there for a few years until I then started in the style. Okay. When do you first have the idea to create this company?

So there was no big plan with it. I got made redundant, and I got paid my month's salary and an additional month on top. And I had no idea what I was going to do next. And I just was chatting to a friend at the time and we were talking about like online brands that were kind of coming up and you know fashion being sold on Facebook and things like that and it just clicked um and I remember thinking social media's on the rise like I've seen these people selling fashion online it was quite cheap at the time I thought there's something in this it doesn't look difficult and I just started researching straight away I was researching where you could buy dresses from you know for cheaper and sell them for more um yeah and I would say

in one afternoon, it literally just happened. Because I remember Jamie coming back from work. He worked in travel at the time, and he came back from work, and I told him about this idea, and we had a big argument, because he thought that I'd planned it for weeks and weeks, and I hadn't told him about it. And he was just a bit like, how can you not tell me about this? And I was like, Jamie, I literally just decided this afternoon.

He's like, there's no way you've got all this together, and you've got an idea, and you've got a name, and you've done this in one afternoon. But I genuinely had. it just clicked. It just kind of clicked in place and I just thought this is this is what I'm going to do.

Wow. So yeah, that was one hell of an afternoon. Yeah, that really was. It really was an afternoon. And it was, you know, when I started it, it was nothing what it became. You know, the initial idea was kind of sales and dresses online and make some money from it

and let's see where we can go. Like it really was a very early concept. But I just knew very early on that I felt I could make it success. Now, why? And then also, you know, why do you believe you could make it a success? And then also why choose that route? So, for example, why ladies' dresses versus men's trousers? So really, the truth is that the route into in the style was the easiest route. And by that, I mean, I research wholesalers where you could go down to a wholesale and you could buy six dresses

at like a cost price. And then you could sell them online at three times the price, ultimately. that's literally the initial concept. And men's clothing was much harder to find and I didn't have the money to kind of go and manufacture my own clothes or make anything from scratch. So it literally started for me going in a shop and purchasing six dresses and just listing them on a website

which I got Jamie's sister to build cost me £100 or whatever. She probably did it free at the time, bless it. And I remember I spent some money on printing a thousand leaflets with the name of the brand and an off discount on it. And I physically went up and down Market Street in Manchester and handed them out myself on August Bank holiday and launched the website. Look at that.

Yeah. And I got one order. I got one order. But that one order was enough for me to think I can make this work. Look at that. Now how does it feel? Because I remember my entrepreneurial journey and the first sale is just like hits different. Definitely, yeah.

How did that first sale hit? for you. It was amazing because it really felt like something that I had done. Even though the concept initially was sort of buying dresses for my wholesale and selling online, I'd kind of used my initiative, I'd use my own money, I'd kind of bought these dresses, I'd print the leaflets, I'd hand them out and someone was buying from this little thing that I'd set up. How much money did you have when you started in the style? So I started in the style with about a thousand pounds. Thousand pounds. Yeah. And I know that because I physically put that into a separate business account I've set up and I put a thousand pounds in.

And yeah, I, that's, that's all I ever used. This is right. Yeah. I spent a little bit on leaflets, a little bit on stock. Yeah. And then I sold the dresses and that's how it sort of started. So then tell me about the growth of the company. And I'm a super nerd on these things.

So walk, walk me through like how you built this company. So I, for the first three months, I remember reaching out to a lot of, you know, celebrities on Twitter, because Twitter was huge at the time. And I remember, you know, go out to a lot of celebrities and sort of saying, can I gift you this dress? And look, when I look back, those dresses were tacky. They were really pad. But at the time, you know, that was all I could do. So I reached out to some celebrities.

And who did you reach out to? I remember, like, you know, Jordy Shaw was big at the time. Tawi was a lot. And I remember actually, you know, Sophie from Jordy Shore. She was one of the first people to ever wear the brand. and I gifted her a jacket. And that was my first ever £1,000 day of sales, because she wore the jacket.

And I was absolutely thrilled. And at the time, we did everything from my flat. I was with Jamie at the time, obviously. And we had printer in the hallway, and it used to print off the orders, just used to fall into the hallway. And I used to go and pack the parcels up myself and send them to the post office.

And I remember just, we were thrilled, and we just won the supply and was like, can we get more, can we get more? And it just kind of, that was a real point for me where I was like, wow, this, I can link up celebrity with social media and this brand. And there's something that I can really do here. And I'd say that's when it really hit for me. The pin really dropped. I feel as if, Adam, you were ahead of the curve.

Yeah. Right? Because that model that you just described is what many, many, many people do now, but they were not doing it then. Yeah. And what year is this that we're talking about? So this was 2013. Yeah. Yeah.

So it was very early days. I mean, I think at the time of starting in the style, I'd only just join Instagram myself. So Instagram was very kind of new. I think it'd been around a couple of years, but it wasn't like a big, big platform at that point, as much as Twitter, for example. And influencers weren't really a thing then either. It was kind of celebrities and then bloggers started. Influences kind of became a thing later down the line. So, yeah, it was really early on.

And yeah, we jumped onto it pretty quickly. And that's what really excelled growth. So who was the first celebrity that you did a, you said, a range with? Yeah, yeah. The first person was Lauren Pope, who was in the only way as Essex at the time. So there was a little bit of a, in the market, I would say, with fashion brands, there was a little bit of snobbery at the time. Like, you know, these were reality stars and you didn't really want to have stuff seen on them.

Whereas I saw it as the opposite. I was like, these are relatable people that actually these women that are 18 to 30 or whatever are watching these people. and that's what they want to wear and they relate to them. So I thought they're missing a trick here. So I kind of started to really reach out to these people. And yeah, Lauren Pope was one of the first I got a meeting with. And I obviously made the business sound better than it was at the time. You know, of course, like I was in my flat, you know, packing the orders myself,

but they didn't have to really know that at the time. That was minor information. And I sort of said to her, you know, and she told me afterwards, like she really believed in my vision and my enthusiasm and trusted me. and she just felt that straight away. And so she signed with the brand. And I remember at the time I signed it and I thought, shit, because this is real now. And I didn't really have any fund, I had no funding.

So obviously to manufacture a range was going to cost a chunk of money. Yes. So I started to reach out to like some people, close people, banks, you know, a friend of mine, just to see if there was any option of like getting 10,000 pounds in, for example, to help the range. In the end, my friend, a good friend of mine at the time, sort of, who's well off and invested a few thousand pound into the business. And that helped me get my first range off the ground. He obviously later was really rewarded with that when the business went on the stock market.

So it's the best investment he ever made. But I was so grateful at the time because he believed in me when a lot of people didn't. And it was a way for me to raise money without having a huge interest on it. And yeah, and that was the first range. And it catapulted from there, really. You know, we launched Lauren. It was great. and then the next person was Charlotte Cosby.

Wow, look at that. Yeah. And I think Charlotte was quite, she was, you know, it's early days, and she was just going for a fitness journey. And she'd just done Big Brother, actually. So she was a big, you know, she was big. And I remember thinking, wow. And I went in and met her.

And, yeah, I remember she ordered chips and gravy. She spilled it all down her. And I just thought, what the hell am I doing here? But we just connected really well. And she became the second collaboration of In The Style. And then from then it just went. It is kind of. So in these ranges that you pitched Lauren and then Charlotte,

it was for them or for you to co-design what exactly with them. And then if you can, can you even disclose financially what the structure was? Yes, of course. So yeah, the idea was, and I think what really worked with in the style right up to the end was that it was so authentic. And I wanted it to feel authentic all the time. It wasn't a case of we'll give you something. money, put your name to this. It was like, we want you to come in, work with me and the suppliers and create a collection that truly is you that you would wear. You get your say in it and you'll get

rewarded for sales. And I think early on it was like 25, I mean, it ended up being 25% of the profit that they got from the range. So they got well funded, you know, it wasn't a huge amount of stress for them and it was a great reward, depending on how much they sold. And it was great for the business. And obviously we were able to mark the stock up a little bit more than we had done before because we had celebrities attached to it. And we were manufacturing ourselves as well, so we're getting cheaper cost prices than we would from wholesale. So it worked really, really well. And yeah, they were rewarded for it. But yeah. I think, you know, it's so interesting to me because it feels like this is done all the time now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But at that time, it was

the first. Yeah, it really was in that way. So on that note, here is your first surprise, Adam. You ready? Okay, yeah. All right. Surprise. I wanted to do this video. I just think I'm going to start crying. I wanted to go do this video as a surprise. And you already know all of these things, Adam. I'm just going to have to try and calm down a second.

Because this is really hard. You mean you don't mean the world to me and the girls and everyone in your life. I know you being the world at Jamie and I just want you to know you should just be so proud of yourself and know how excited you were to do this podcast. The very first time I met you at that very first meeting who would have thought over 10 years ago that right now we've gone through all our wild partying years,

all of our businessy years, all of our serious years, heartbreak, well, on my end, not on yours, you absolutely given us the best advice the whole way through life and now now you're the godparent of my children and now we get to go through this stage of life together and have our young kids like go over together like what the hell I'm just so happy and I don't think I'll ever stuff crying about this I'm just so happy that literally every single part of life we've got to just do it together And I just, it's just made my whole year. And I love you so much. And I hope that you're having a great time with Paul.

Hi, Paul. Miss you. I'm going to go now. Oh, bless her. That is, that's really nice. Yeah. We have, Charlotte, yeah, it's crazy. We, we, to think when I met her and how intertwine we are of each other's life now is just crazy.

Yeah. Yeah, she's such a lovely girl in character. And, yeah, it means a lot. to me and Jamie, yeah. Yeah, she's super. She's super. Yeah, you would have obviously worked for her at the times, yeah. Absolutely, absolutely.

I found her to be so incredibly warm and kind in an, you know, in a industry where not everyone is kind. She truly is kind. Yeah, she really is. And what you see is what you get with her. And that's why I think we built a friendship over time because we just were so natural with each other and it just naturally happened. But yeah, she's really a lovely lady.

Yeah, yeah, so look at that. Yeah. So you could see, even by that, that you were not just establishing business partnerships. Yeah. You were establishing partnerships. Yeah, yeah. And these celebrities trusted you. Yeah, yeah.

And so that you continued to grow, because I saw that, you know, we had Lorna Lux on. Yeah, yeah. I think that you, did you do her first range? Yeah, we were, she was with In the Star for three years. Wow. Yeah. And that was her first. Obviously, she got her brand now, but that was.

her first, yeah, collaboration she did, yeah. Yeah. You weren't so many, you know, big names in the end over the years. You know, Stacey Solomon was one, Jacqueline Joccer, which she won the jungle, and then came and signed. And, yeah, all these people trusted me. And it was the root of the success, really, you know, that we had so much trust with each other and we built relationships and that then, you know, that then helped the success of the

Rangers and the company. Yeah. Look at that. So the company grew and grew and grew and grew. Yeah. The company grew. Grew so, yeah, so big. And I would say COVID was a really pivotal moment for the business because, you know,

I'd looked at it and changed the business model completely because obviously you had to. You know, people were locked down. Things were changing. We moved our collections. We changed it all around. So I think in our first year, in the style, we'd done, I'd got to $4 million pound of sales, which was incredible. You know, like...

First year? Yeah, first year. Look at that. A thousand in? Yeah. Four million in sales. Yeah. It's a minority of companies that are able to survive after, you know, one year of business, let alone more.

Yeah. Right. But you were able to do it. So just from a business advice standpoint for everyone who wants to become an entrepreneur or maybe is in their early, early phase of entrepreneurship, what advice would you give in that first year? Where are the areas that everyone should focus? I think, well, firstly, anyone that wants to, to just go for it is a first because I think so many people say things and it is such a big thing to try and do and believe

in yourself and leap, but that believing in yourself and just going for it is the biggest thing. And it's hard because in that first couple of years, I think resilience again comes down to it. Honestly, I knew nothing going into business at all. like the roles that I was recruiting for after a couple of years, I didn't even know what they did. You know, I just had to learn, like, wing it all on the job. And I think that's probably the biggest thing for me is like, you know, you don't need to have qualifications.

You don't need to know certain things. If you've got an idea and you can believe in yourself, just go for it. And I think when you fall down, which you will many times, is, you know, dust yourself off and get back up and go for it. And that's what I did over and over and over, over the first few years. because there were so many setbacks and there were so many reasons to not continue. But I just believed in it

and just kept getting back up and going again. Okay. All right, so then let's talk about going into COVID. You just mentioned your nan. And I think that it's important to, you know, look at the fact that you're growing this business, you've become successful as an entrepreneur, but you still have life going on.

I really didn't have much of life going on, really. I must admit, you know, for the 10, 11 years I was in the style, you know, it was my whole life. And I missed out on a lot of time with family and different things. And that was my fault because I was so focused on the goal and the business. But yeah, you know, life was still lifing. And, yeah, we hit COVID and my nan passed away suddenly, actually. You know, she was, to me, she was very healthy in the sense of she looked amazing. She looked incredible.

She was 81. And we just didn't expect it. She did have heart problems over the years and, you know, she did suffer with her health, but it was still such a shock to us. And I remember, yeah, literally I think we've gone into lockdown like three days or something. And I'd spoken to her the night before. And yeah, my uncle run Jamie actually and told him and Jamie had to tell me. And I just remember at the time thinking, wow, like, because my nan to me was like my mum, really.

She was the equivalent of my mum, and that hit me big time. And I think for the next two, three days, I struggled to even leave my route. I just was really, I just couldn't cope with it. And then something just clicked in me. And I remember thinking, you know, I know how proud she was of me and this business. And she used to tell me all the time how proud she was of it. She just used to find it fascinating and amazing. And every time I went to visit her, she used to say, I'm so proud of you for doing this.

So I knew how much she loved it. And I thought, I can't let this slip away now. You know, I can't, I need to be there and make this work. So I kind of, it kind of created a bit of a fire in my stomach almost. And I was like, I know we're hitting COVID. And the voice I was getting, well, the team at the time, the board of directors and stuff that were on the board. And they were kind of like, we're going to have to possibly shut down. We're going to have to do this.

We're going to have to reduce sales. And I was like, no, guys. Like, I've got ideas. Like, let's try and do this. And we changed all the collections and did work from home collection. You know, different things going on. and the business just cataported. Wow, it grew.

Yeah, it grew hugely. During a period where you think it would have been on a decline during that COVID period. It really grew. And it was really about just completely changing and pivoting the business model. You know, like not the business model as such, but like, you know, we'd had so many collections planned

for summer and everything. And we were like, hang on a minute, what do people kind of need? We did loads of stuff. We raised money for NHS at the time. Like, there was loads of things that we kind of did. And the brand just grew phenomenally. I think, you know, a lot of people on social media, of course.

And yeah, when, I mean, I think pre-COVID we were doing probably, I mean, we were doing well anyway, 30, 40 million of sales. Post, you know, over the next year, we were doing 80 million of sales. 80 million in sales. Yeah. Post-COVID, a period where many businesses were shutting down. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, some fashion businesses really grew and some fashion businesses, you know, didn't. But, yeah, we did. And it got to March 2021. and then we floated on the stock market. Look at that. Yeah. Was that, that must be a moment that you'll never forget. Do you know what?

I feel bad saying this, but I kind of got convinced in a way to do it because, you know, we had a board at the time, which was, you know, had some directors on it and they were like, look, Adam, we think this would be a great idea. And there was two reasons, really, from my perspective. You know, one, of course, financial freedom for me and my family. Like, I'd never really taken any money out of the business, even up to that point, which was like eight years in, seven, eight years in. So that was, you know, one opportunity that was going to be on the table.

But bigger than that for me, actually, was that the business would be okay. Like, we wouldn't need to get any more funding because it's on the stock market. You've got shareholders. So if you ever need to raise more money, you can buy the stock market. So I was like, this is a win-win, really, you know, it makes sense. But I was scared because I ran the business in my way. I could get my arms around it, and this was going to become a whole different ballgame. Yeah.

Because you'll have other owners, in essence, other equity holders. Essentially, it's no longer my company. It's a public company. Yeah, you have shareholders. You're answerable to. You've got a big board that comes in. And we knew there was going to be like potentially other heads, directors, you know, lots of different things. And it was like, okay, this is this is going to become a lot.

But it made sense. It made a lot of sense. But you were reluctant to do it. Yeah. Initially I was reluctant to do it. But I, you know, I was on board totally. you know by the end I thought this is going to be a game changer for the business and it's going to be life changing for for me and my family which was which was which is the goal right in life in a way

um so yeah we we did it and you know I worked really really hard over that year and being honest I put a lot of it down to my nan as well like just having that fire in my stomach of like we're going to get there we're going to do this she'd be so proud I can help my family which I always promised my nan I would I would I always said to her you know she used to say to me like I don't one day if you get rich, you know, you can help me out, you can put me in a nice home. And we used to joke about it so much. But it was never really a joke to me. Like I always wanted to help her out.

Can I ask too? When you go public, then what becomes the valuation of the company? How big is it? So we floated on the stock market in March 2021, and the business was valued at 100 million pounds. Yeah. 100 million pounds. Once again, from a thousand pounds to 100 million pounds. Yeah.

But honestly, going back to your question, sorry, in the moment, everything changed. You know, in reality, everything changed. You know, I did become a millionaire from being, you know, from that. My business was really well funded, which was incredible. It benefits so many people in lots of ways and the business was changing. But the reality on the floor was I was working so hard. I was literally at burnout. I had not taken any sort of break or anything really from the business at all.

And although I was so proud of the moment, I didn't feel what I thought I would feel, if that makes sense. I felt really numb. I think because the reality was my nan wasn't there to see it, and she was my biggest driver. And I think that I had so much work to do to get it there and post. It doesn't stop. You know, you then got shareholders.

You know, the work really gets bigger. So I think I just remember being in a moment of like this is amazing and and you know people the outpour of like congratulations and you know was amazing but in the actual moment I just felt numb. That's the only way I can describe it. And at this point I'd realized and I think Jamie had realized that I'd hit burnout and up until this point you know someone would have said to me you know you work too hard or careful of burnout I'd have been like of burnout whatever you know I'm an entrepreneur this is how it works

and you know that last year really changed it for me because I'd realized that I had given everything to this business over eight years and I had nothing left almost I I just was so I'd worked myself into the ground ultimately so when we did do the IPO and float on stock market before we did it I'd kind of said to the guys look if we do this I want to bring in a CEO because it's bigger than me this now you know I don't know how to deal with the stock market and shareholders it's new to me and I'm absolutely burnt out. I'll still be in the business. I'm still going to work as hard as I can, but I just need someone to help take it to that next level. And they agreed, you know, they wanted me to stay a CEO, but I was like, you know, this is the reasons and they

agreed and understood. So that was always kind of the plan when we floated on the stock market. Hey, Paul, it's time to tell our listeners about our new show sponsor, Treat Well. Let's talk Nails then. I just had my manicure and pedicure too. And for those of of you who might be a bit shocked to hear this, where have you been? I get it done because think about it. My hands are always being filmed, usually more than my face. So I've got to make sure they're always looking camera ready. But honestly, this is my tri-weekly reset, and I always book through Treatwell. You probably know it. It's Europe's number one beauty booking app, where you can find five-star salons near you, and you could book 24-7 even after midnight just from your phone, and you could

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Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com slash campaign, turns sick conditions apply. But now after the company, though, goes public, it feels as if this is where we start to see a decline. Yeah. You know, in sales, an increase in losses. So what do you think happened with regard to the demise? Being really honest, like the way that I'd always run the business over the years was sales first.

everything else come second. If I don't have those sales, I can't, I'm not growing that team, I'm not doing this. And that's how I'd always run the business. And that had sort of changed a little bit. You know, we'd end up having, you know, directors in for directors' sake. It would just become so big. And there was so much cost involved in being on the stock market and just in every area of the business, really. And I would say that was the biggest thing. And I think it wasn't just us, you know, if you look at lots of business out there, you know, at the time, Boohoo, ASOS, many businesses, you know, it was starting to decline on the start. market and there was less interest around fashion businesses post-COVID.

So the share price started to decline as well and we couldn't raise further investment. So I would say it was a combination of things, even things like, you know, the war in Ukraine and Russia had impacted freight costs and it had been massive to the business. So like there was so many things that had impacted it that we weren't expecting. And yeah, it started to decline really. Yeah. But it sounds like it was this court case that exacerbated. the mental health issues.

So what was the court case? And from what I understand, you've never talked about this. I've never talked about it, no. This core case. I shared on social media once I won the case because it become public and I obviously wanted to clear my name, but I've never really spoken in detail about it, no.

So essentially, it came from this person that I met for coffee back in 2013. We're not trying to raise money. when I was trying to raise money. Okay. And I told him a little bit about in the style. And I never heard from him again, obviously. And then I found out he'd registered in the style limited. Got legal advice at the time.

No problem. You filed for trademark. You've been trading for months already. No, issue. Carry on. Didn't hear anything again for 10, no, eight years. For eight years. Okay.

And then when the press went out about the business floating on the stock market, I got a legal letter for the first time. And it basically said, you know, we're suing, Adam Frisbee for a hundred million pounds, which is what the valuation was, because he stole this idea from this guy. My goodness. Now, at the time, I had no, I had no stress about it. It was laughable.

You know, my lawyers laughed at it. We were laughed at it. And it went on for months, really. And then it started to become real, I would say, after a few months, because we were going back and forth and they weren't dropping it. And we started to get hearings of, like, court dates and mediation. And I was just a bit like, how is this possible? Because I'm telling the entire truth.

there's not a scrap of evidence, like how is this possible? But we later learned that because he had witnesses as such, which never came to fruition, and it was such a huge amount of money that it needed to go into the high court to kind of be settled. So it was probably the end of 2022 when things really started to get bad for me. And that was, the business was declining. The CEO was in position and we weren't really clicking. You know, we just weren't getting on fantastic. I think the business was going in a different route to what I would have steered it.

I kind of couldn't direct it because I wasn't the CEO anymore. You know, you know, and I'm not for any reason, Pinn-Not and Hinn, there was such a combination of things and we all did everything we could at the time. But it got to the end of 22, and the business was essentially running out of money because the cost were too high and it wasn't performing the way that it had. And the CEO, we had a meeting and the CEO quit. And I was so, I was so angry at the time because I thought, how dare you? Like, I've brought you in.

You know, it's been a bit of a tough year with decisions that have been made, you know, and you're walking away. And I'm now going, about to go into the high court in the darkest period of my life. And I've got to now somehow rescue this business from this position. So I did. there was no question like for me I was like there's no way I'm going to let my team down there's no way this business is going like I'm going to have to make something work and we tried everything to keep it on the stock market but there was no interest from shareholders

there was no interest from a buyer at all and the only option was to go private and have someone that kind of bought the shareholder shares for a much smaller amount of money and that was the only viable option for anyone there was nothing else on the table so ultimately for this period of three months, I had to manage this rescue deal whilst appearing in High Court. And that really was an awful time. It really was. Did you think at any moment in court that you could lose? I think it became really real for me. So before the court case, we had to mediate, we had do mediation. And I was told you have to do mediation because the court see it as a negative

if you don't because you haven't tried to settle this before. Even though I was like, I've got nothing to settle, you know, the guy's lying. What can you do? We had mediation and it obviously didn't go to plan, you know, they turned on and said, give us 10 million pounds. And I was like, I'm not even worth 10 million pounds. That's not how, that's not how the IPO worked. But obviously, you're completely lying. I'm telling the entire truth. So obviously, nothing came in the mediation. And I was told at the mediation, something about the press. And in a mediation, they can't tell you exactly what the other person is saying. And they just sort of chat to you about ideas, try and steer it to a place where you can agree something.

And something had come up about press, and I didn't really understand it anyway. The next day, I got a notification from a friend or something, and the story had hit the press, and it was on the Daily Mail and elsewhere, and it was like Adam Frisbee, founder in the style, sued for £100 million for stealing the idea off this person. And that really hit me,

because my story as well, my journey had been so pure. It was so pure, you know, I'd worked so hard, and suddenly I could read these comments, of like, I can't believe you stole that idea. Like, I trusted this man. And I was like, oh, my God. And I think in the lead up to court, although I 100% knew everything I was saying was true,

there's that 1% in your mind where you think you read about these things or you hear these horror stories where it's just ruled in someone's favor. And I think the hardest part of it was that I was so innocent in the situation and I was working so hard and I had all this going on in the business. And I was having to appear on the dock. to the judge and answer and essentially being accused by their team as a liar. And I just thought, how have I got to this position? How is this possible?

So I'd be lying if I didn't say there wasn't a doubt in my mind where I thought I could lose everything here, unfairly, but I could. Yeah. Now you describe that as a dark period because there's so much happening. So when you check in with your mental health during that time, how would you describe it? I just remember feeling so like a shell of myself. I just, I couldn't look people in the eye. I couldn't barely leave the house.

I just felt awful. And I felt like I was in this horrendous bubble that I just could not get out of. Like I just couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel. And I'd spent hundreds of thousands of pounds on this quarter, case because I had to defend it had no choice. And that was, of course, that was tough as well. And yeah, it was, it was, it was, it was bottom.

And I think what I really felt at the time and I remember so clearly is I felt like a huge failure. I felt like I'd let people down. I felt like I'd let my family down. Even though I had no saying it, even though I did everything I could, I just, the business wasn't working. I was in high court. It was all over the press.

And I just thought, I'm ashamed of myself. And I felt that feeling that I felt when I was a young kid. And it was a really, really tough time. And it's taken me a long, long time to recover. But essentially, I went through the High Court. We and Jamie were there for a week. And we waited weeks for the judgment. And it came out, obviously, and it's online.

And, you know, they dismissed it entirely. And they absolutely were damning of him and the lies that he brought to the table and, you know, said I was telling the truth entirely. They didn't find a scrap of evidence. None of his witnesses turned up. It was crazy. And when you look back, you think, how is that even legal? Like, how is that legal? How is that possible?

And to this day, I have not had a penny of my cost back. I won everything. I want all my costs, but I've not had a penny back because he's just left the country. And, yeah. Yeah. There's no crime. It's no crime. It's just crazy.

So in essence, he's forced you to fork over hundreds of thousands of pounds, not even including what it's done to you mentally and physically. And there's no retribution. And what's crazy is, you know, if it was someone claiming that on insurance and they got found to rely it and they'd be in prison. But because it's a business claim, there's no repercussion other than obviously him having to pay the costs. and yeah, he's just gone missing, so I've not had a penny, not had a penny back. At the time when I won, everyone was like, congratulations, like, well done. And I just thought, but how is it? Congratulations. It didn't feel like a win because all I'd done is kind of just got that little bit of my life back that should never have happened.

I remember it being so bad at one point that I remember even having conversations with Jamie and just saying to Jamie, like, you don't have to be here, you know, you can go and find someone else. you could go and do something else because I just didn't know how I would come back from where I was if that makes sense I could better leave that house so I just thought it's not fair what I'm putting him through as well um of course he he said you know don't be stupid and he he he supported me for everything he was I wouldn't have done him without I wouldn't be able to do without him but um it was a really really dark time yeah you know that's incredible to think that you were in essence going to sacrifice yeah your love yeah the love of your

your life because you felt that low. Yeah. I just felt like it wasn't, it wasn't fair on him. And I didn't see a route out if that made sense. And I just thought, this isn't how I wanted my life to be and it isn't how I wanted his to be. And I could see him trying so hard to help me and support me. And none of it was, not enough, but none of it could help if that made sense.

Yeah, it was just, it was a really tough time. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so this is, you're dealing with this personally. You're battling with, you know, in essence, telling your partner, you can leave. But then you're also trying to run this business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At the same time.

Yeah. So what then happens with the business? It wasn't even just running the business, you know, it was in such a bad place that we would happen to do this kind of rescue deal with it, with, you know, the investment company. So it had ultimately failed at this point, really, and I was just doing everything I can, which I'm really proud of now looking back that I did that. At the time, I felt like a huge failure. But now I'm really proud of how I kind of did in the darkest time step back in

and made sure that everyone around me was okay. You know, I didn't care about me at the time at all. I cared about the staff, you know, the team, like everything. So we essentially did a deal and the business went back private. an investment company came in. And yeah, it was a really tough time because obviously people have lost money on the stock market. You know, people have bought shares at a higher value and the business had sold it at less value.

So they'd lost money. And while I was going through the court case and this rescue deal, you know, I was starting to get real bad sort of like death threats through social media, like Twitter, Instagram, because obviously these people are like on forums, you know, trying to make money. and whatnot and it got really bad and we would get messages like you know obviously you faggot you know we know your address we're going to come for your family

like it was it was really horrible and I think at the time it was scary because we didn't know how much of this was threats and how much of it was you know could be real so there was there was a lot there was a lot hitting us at the time but we got through it and you know after a couple of months the noise started to

calm down a little bit in terms of you know those people and my focus was you know making sure that business survived. So I worked really hard. And we got it back to profitability, you know, over a six-month period. And yeah, I then sort of had a conversation with the investment company at the time and said, look, you know, we spoke about this when you came on board. But I can't be the CEO long term because I am a shell of myself.

I didn't actually say that to them. I just said, you know, it's not kind of what I want to do right now. I know it didn't work before, but we'll bring in the right person. I don't want any salary. I don't want anything. I'll do everything for this business still. And they were like, okay, but give me more shares from me. And at the time, I was like, whatever it takes, because I had to go and fix my mental health.

Like, I just could not cope anymore. So that was the conversation we had. And I think that was when I realized that things probably weren't going to work out the way that I'd hoped. When you say not work out how you hope, how did you? I think for me, I'd hope that I would always be part of in the style for the rest of my life. Like it was my baby. I loved it so much.

And although towards the end, I had a very love-hate relationship with it because it brought me so much trauma, like over the years. But I loved it so much as well. And I hope that I would always be part of it. But I think I realized at that point that the people I was working with. were not morally the way that I work. And yeah, I started to think, right, okay, let's see. But essentially, I carried on. I started work.

I was working. I wasn't being paid. I'd given up the salary. That didn't matter, you know. I just wanted the business to be okay. And I brought in an MD. And I'd just say things started to slowly happen that were not right. And that was things like, you know, people,

not being paid properly. You know, I was having calls from suppliers, long-term suppliers that I'd worked with who were crying down the phone to me saying, Adam, we're not having this paid, we're begging, like, you know, we're doing this work. And I was helpless because the difference when being on the stock market was I was still the biggest shareholder. So although I didn't have a majority, I was the bigger shareholder. And everyone had lots of small shareholders.

Right. When they bought the majority from the stock market, they became the majority shareholder. So although I was respected initially and I was ultimately the heart of the business, you know, I didn't have a say, if they wanted to not pay someone, they would not pay someone. I didn't even have access to the FD. So I started to really raise the flag and just say, look, you know, this is not right. I'm not comfortable, you know, in this position. And things just got worse.

They just got worse. The lack of respect was there. It was really challenging because at the time, the staff, the team really saw me as the, as the, as the, you know, the guy there. And I think they had a lot of comfort in me being there. And, you know, they didn't really know this new team. And I really... What are the customers also saying at this?

And the customers as well. Like, the customers didn't really feel this. You know, they didn't really feel any of this because ultimately our goal was just to make sure the business stayed okay. And we bought the collections. We did for we could. So the customers didn't really see this firsthand, if that makes sense. But I think the reason I stayed so long,

after this was because, A, I loved the business, I wanted to be part of it, but B, the team and the customers, you know, the people that had followed my journey and supported this business from day one over the years. But yeah, I think one of the big things that happened was I kind of found out via a member of the team ringing me and they said, Adam, we're going to lose our jobs, like the business being sold. And I was like, no, no, it's not. and I looked online and essentially when I signed over some paperwork to give some more shares back to them,

they'd released this press that we were doing a deal and they were going back on the stock market. And yeah, doing this big deal. And I rung a guy I won't go into the ins and outs of the conversation. It wasn't a good one. And essentially I said, how day you do this, you know, I don't know anything about this. This is my business that I love. My team are worried, like, what's going on. And I just was like, this just isn't.

this just isn't me. I got my lawyers involved and I said, look, I don't want to leave this business. It's everything to me, but I need them to run this business in the right way. And in the end, I sent a letter of resignation to them. I surrendered all of my shares, which I got nothing for. And I left. And I never heard back from that note ever. And I obviously stayed in contact with the team.

And I did everything I could before I kind of released a statement to say that I'd parted ways with the business. And it was really tough. You know, for me, that was a decision that I had to be a breaking point to make. And I really was, you know, with everything I'd gone through and then the business to be running this way, I just felt so, it just felt so wrong. And I was like, if I can't steer this in the right way, I'm going to go and I'm going to speak my truth and I'm going to tell people because that's just not me. I'm just not that person. So, yeah, I left and that was September 23. Yeah. In December last year, I recorded a podcast and I did it with Jamie to kind of speak my truth really.

And I thought, you know, this makes sense with Jamie. And I was getting questions every day about what had gone on. And I thought, I don't want people to think that I've just walked away from something that I love because I really didn't. You know, it was so much bigger than that. So I did the podcast and I put out that I was obviously doing it. and I got a legal letter, I think about 10pm the night it was due to go out. And it came from the company and just basically, what the investment company and just said, if you essentially put this out, we will be taking court action. And I spoke to my lawyers and they were like, look, you've got some clauses in your contract at this point where, you know, they could try and do this?

And do you really want to go through another two-year court battle when you've just been through what you've been through? So we pull the podcast and we put out a statement, which is. To be honest with you, it did what it needed to do because people trusted me and Jamie. They could read between the lines. They could see these other people speaking up about it. But it was really hard at the time because I'd kind of been shut from speaking my truth.

And I kind of carried that for a long time, really, because, yeah, I wanted to, I wanted to tell people. But luckily, you know, we've got such a supportive community on, like, Instagram and socials in general. And the word got out and people supported. And yeah, it was an amazing amount of support that we got from that. And how are you able to speak today legally? So there's lots of things happened since then.

Time is a big thing. The business then got put into administration a few months later. I kind of stayed in touch with a lot of the team. And I tried to help as much as I could with new jobs. And like the new business that I'm working on are all X in the style of people, which I'm really pleased about. But yeah, the business essentially went into administration. So it changes things a little bit.

different ownership structure now. I don't even know if it's still trade and it's very strange the setup. But yeah, it changed things really. And also, you know, this wasn't about coming in and damning a particular person or, you know, it was just really the reality of what happened at the time. Yes. And it also sounds like you wanted to speak to the community, the industry, the industry just to set the record straight. Yeah.

No regrets? No regrets. I don't think I could have any regrets. At the time, absolutely. I really struggled. But I think, yeah, therapy and lots of conversations later, I have no regrets for what I did. I stayed true to myself and I did the right thing.

Yeah. What an incredible story. Yeah, thank you. What an incredible story to look at not only what you were able to achieve, but how you were able to stay to your moral compass, regardless of what was happening. Yeah. And then also how you were tested throughout that.

Sure, yeah. But one person that remains consistent in that story that we haven't spent the time that we need to spend on is Jamie. Yeah, definitely. Right. So throughout, it seems like Jamie has always been your, perhaps your first safe space. But something you said earlier in the conversation that I want to revisit is you mentioned, you didn't feel. comfortable yet being a gay man until you were with Jamie. Yeah.

Now, what I find interesting in this research is that that's not an an... You were not an anomaly, right? So in the UK, 70% of LGBT plus young adults said they felt ashamed of being LGBT plus with 74% of gay men saying this. So would you say this? So would you say that was you until you met Jamie? Yeah, to a T, yeah.

Yeah, exactly that. And that, I would say that surprises me, but it doesn't, obviously, because that's how I felt. And I know others do. So, yeah, I would say until I met Jamie, that's definitely how I felt, yeah. Wow. So what was it about Jamie that allowed you to tap into your authenticity? I think with him, I am just obviously 100% myself.

I'm just, you know, me. And I think I always try and steer away from ever saying that somebody completes you because you know, you shouldn't ever need someone to complete you. But I do truly feel like that with Jamie. I feel like he just completed my life. And he just allowed me to be comfortable to kind of just do what I want to do. Like with the business, I always say I would never probably even started it if I wasn't in a comfortable relationship with someone that supported me.

And I knew that I could rely on and speak to, you know. Yes. So that is huge for me. And yeah, we just have such a huge level of trust, respect, love, you know, that it just has made me feel like I can be myself. Yeah. It completes me. Yeah. Yeah.

Look at that. And also what you just mentioned as far as you would never have started this business, this uberly successful business without knowing that you had Jamie as a partner. But what you often hear. in pop culture is first build the business, then find the partner. Yeah. He came on board with the start after three months, so we really worked together for a long time. And, yeah, I think sometimes I look back and think I couldn't have done it without him.

So for me, I think it's just the foundations of having someone that helps you believe in yourself and the support, knowing you've got that behind you is such a huge thing. And some people might find that in family and parents and things, but for me, that was Jamie. Adam, you ready for your next surprise? Okay. Maybe. You sure? Yeah.

Okay. I want you to read that out loud. Out loud, okay. Adam, my being, what Jamie always calls me. I can't believe we're finally here at the very beginning of the most incredible journey of our lives. After everything we've been through, every hard conversation, every moment of hope and heartbreak, every maybe one day, we're doing it. We're really going to be dads. There were times when it felt like this dream might just stay that.

But we kept pushing forward. we held on to believe that love and determination would one day get us here and now standing on the edge of this new chapter. I can honestly say that every tear and every moment of doubt was worth it. You and I have built a life full of love, laughter and strength, and now we get to share all of that with someone

new, a tiny someone we oddly love more than words can say. I'm so excited you become the amazing dad I know you'll be, patient, funny, gentle and full of heart. I'm so proud of you, Adam. And I can't wait to walk hand and hand with you through this next part of our story. We've got this

is always together. After 14 years, it still amazes me how lucky I am to have found you, not just someone to love, but my true soulmate. For every high and low, you've been my constant, my calm, my joy. Loving you has never felt like a task. It's felt normal from day one. So thank you for being my person every single day. I adore you. Someone else also want to say something. Dear Daddies, I've been waiting for you for so long, and now that I'm finally here, I just want you to know how much I really love you. Thank you for never giving her. up on me even when things felt hard you are so strong and i feel safe and love just knowing you my parents i can't wait to meet you and start this amazing journey together we're going to have so many beautiful

moments and i promise to always be your little miracle that's very special yeah so jamie wrote that yeah he doesn't write a lot of things either so i'm really impressed that's so that's that's your letter oh thank you that is your letter yeah it's um yeah it's very i feel so lucky to To have Jamie and be on this journey with him, really, I really do. Yeah. I'd say incredibly special person. Yeah. A matter of fact, what I'll do is let me hold on to that for you, but I will give this to you since this is your letter.

Yeah. Is I find that writing a letter is one of the most intimate acts. Yeah. Have you ever received a letter from Jamie before? Have I received a letter from Jamie before? I don't think so. No. I don't think so.

back in the early days but no i don't think i've ever received a letter and you're right i think reading something my friend wrote me a letter a few years ago and i still have it and it's so meaningful i think sometimes when you see someone written something down you can read it and keep it it's it's really powerful yeah yes yes and what i also love about that letter is he's able to express himself fully and you're able to receive it yeah fully yeah and then you always have it yeah definitely yeah like you'll always have you. Now, that last paragraph, Jamie said someone else wrote that. Yeah.

Who wrote that, that last paragraph? Well, we're having a baby, me and Jamie, so our future baby, which just feels crazy, so out loud, yeah. So you're going to be a dad? We're going to be a dad, yeah. We're going to be dads. And, yeah, it's crazy. It's been, it's such a surreal moment.

because we have been trying for five years, I would say. I wanted this all my life, but it was something I thought I never could. And probably I'd say for the last eight, nine years, me and Jamie have talked about it. And for the last five, we have been trying to make it happen. And now we are going to be dads, yeah, which just feels incredible. It feels incredible. I can't imagine the type of fathers. You will both be.

Thank you. And I think as well, like, what's really big for me is it almost gives me a chance to be the person that I needed when I was young. And I think for me, that is such a, I always want, I always knew I wanted to bring kids. And I think that is one of the reasons why. I was just like, I know that I've got so much love to give and I want to do everything that my parents perhaps didn't do. And, yeah, that feels really special to be in this moment. and then we're going to welcome a baby into the world that's going to change our lives forever. Yes.

Yes. Now you said you and Jamie have been trying for five years. Yeah. So how have you been trying for the five years? So me and Jamie obviously are having a baby via surrogacy. And we're doing it in America. And we signed up to do this five years ago. Signed up.

Sounds strange. But yeah, we joined the agency five years ago to say, look, we want to try and do this. And it's taken that long to get to this point. We've had lots of challenges. You know, we got pregnant and we sadly miscarried. The lady, Sauer got pulled out. We had to go back into the kind of waiting time. We had to meet with match for someone and Liz Lee calls.

Like, it's just been so complicated. And there was times where we thought maybe this just isn't for us, like it's in maybe it's just not meant to happen for us in life. You know, we can't force it. We're, you know, I'm 38, James 37. and it's like, is this ever going to happen? And then, yeah, this year, it did, which has been incredible, yeah. So a few questions on surrogacy.

So this is a topic that I'm fascinated by. So first is why you live, you and Jamie live in the UK. Yes. So why go to the United States versus the UK? Yeah. So the biggest reason for us is UK same-sex parental laws are not yet where they are in America. So to give you a view of that, so if we had a surrogate in the UK and let's say they're not the baby's DNA, so we use an egg donor, but they're just the carrier of the baby, they are

legally the parent of the child. And if they've got a partner, so is their partner. They are the mum and dad or the mum and mum, whatever. So we are not technically legal parents and we have to then adopt the baby at birth and we have to go through a court to get a parent order to become the legal parents and that can take months sometimes even longer. And although I don't know if there is cases of it, the surrogate can technically change their mind at any point and say they would want to keep the baby. Even after birth. Even after birth, yeah. And you would have to, you would have to like go for a legal battle with it. So, and there's also no, you can't have a legally binding surrogacy contract in the UK. So it's very different. Whereas in America, everything is from day one. So me and Jamie, you know,

use an agency, we are the legal intended parents from day one, and that never changes. And I think for us, you know, we are fortunate financially to be able to kind of go to America, which has been great. And we just felt it was a safer option for us and one that we understood the process throughout and we were legally protected. And that was why really, yeah. Yeah, you talked about the laws here. So it was only in 2005, so not that long ago, where it became legal for same-sex couples to adopt children in the UK. To adopt, yeah. Yeah, so you think that that was not that long ago.

And then with regard to the United States, in 2023, so recent surrogates in the US were typically paid $30,000 to $80,000, which is $22,000 to 60,000 pounds. So to your point, you need resources in order to do that. Yeah. Now, how does the process work? Like, how are you matched? I've read stories where people are finagling with genetics. So how does the whole process work?

So in America, particularly, it is a strange set up in a sense of you work with an agency for the surrogate, you work with an agency for the egg donor, and you ultimately work with the clinic to do your embryos and stuff. And we ended up not deep in it too much and just went with like genetics and their family history and things like that really. Wow. So what are the options if you wanted to go deep? What are the options? Like you can choose nationality. You can choose a skin color.

You can choose an eye color. You can choose certain genetics. Like it's crazy. And don't you wrong. It's not endless. Like to be a surrogate or to be an egg donor, you have to go through medical checks. You have to, you know. So there's lots of that happening.

But yeah, ultimately you do choose your egg donor. Can you choose intelligence? Yeah, you do find out like IQs and stuff. Yeah, you do, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. But we got a little bit overwhelmed with it because obviously you're like, okay, so if they've got blue eyes,

it might be like this. And in the end, you think that you could just go all day with this. So we kind of just looked at family history and illnesses and genetics and was like we want to go with someone we think is healthy. Well, obviously very healthy and that we think is going to work. We didn't, you know,

we didn't end up going too deep into like exact looks and things like that because just didn't feel right. So we did, our egg donor obviously produced her eggs and me and Jamie produced our sperm. And in America they, you know, do what they need to do and they become embryos. And we ended up with 11 healthy embryos. Look at that. But now I would imagine it's just one sperm per embryo. Yes, exactly. So how do you know if it's yours or Jamie's?

So biologically, obviously it's going to be one of ours. But, and we don't know is the truth. We don't know. So this first baby, I say first, because who knows what the future holds. Okay. I mean, you know, let's see how we get on. But I think with this baby, we kind of said, look, we want it to be a surprise. And we literally did a heads and tails.

And the clinic matched it to male and female. And, yeah, so we have got no idea what gender we are or who they're biologically connected to. Wow. Which is special because it's going to be a surprise. but also to me and Jamie like it really doesn't matter you know we are the dads of course in their lives and I love the bones of Jamie and vice versa and to me it really I have no it doesn't matter to me at all and it doesn't matter to him which is what's special I think and it it took a while like it was hard at first because I thought you know if you're a typical straight couple obviously you've got

the genes of both your mum and dad whereas with us it can't have one of us you know it can't and but we you know we're just so grateful to be on this journey we're you know you're you know know, it's going to be so loved and we're just so happy with it. Yes. So with the surrogacy, so once you have the embryos created and then the actual surrogacy, the surrogate is the carrier in essence of the child. Are you in touch? Do you meet the surrogate?

Yeah. So we, we match with the surrogate about three years ago, three, four years ago. And for whatever reason, things took a long time. And we went over and met her and it was great. She took a while to kind of pass medicals and stuff, which delay things for quite a while. And then, as I say, last year, we finally got pregnant with, yeah, we finally got pregnant with one of our embryos. But it was really short-lived, like three or four days. And they did a test and realized that it wasn't growing the way it should and therefore she miscarried.

And then, unfortunately, she pulled out of the process at that point. I didn't really get a chance to speak to afterwards. I tried, but she just pulled out. So, yeah, I think maybe too much pressure, I don't know, which meant that me and Jamie had to rematch again, which was really scary for us because we've gone so far and we'd had that joy and then that heartbreak. And then we were back in the process of trying to match.

And they said to us it could be up to 18 months again to match. And then when you match, you've got six months of medicals and legal, so it was two years away again. So we were like, oh my God. But luckily, they managed to find us. They set us up on a few phone calls initially, like FaceTime as you do. I just sort of see how you connect with them and then we connected with one really well

we flew out to meet her really liked her she was great and then luckily she passed medical really quickly we got legal through really quickly and by April this year she was in for our embryo transfer and then since then we've been going out for secret

scans we flew to America because the one thing we want me and Jamie really want to do was it can feel really distant if you want it to like you know they're in America they're carrying a baby, we're in the UK, like, it can feel really distant. And we were like, we really want to feel this bond with our baby from day one.

Like, you know, it's important to us. So we've flown out for the scans to America. We're flying our surrogate over to the UK for our gender reveal. And then we're doing our 20-week scan here in the UK. And obviously, we fly back out there for the birth and stuff. So, yeah, we've tried to make it as positive as we can and connect as we can. And it's been really special for us, yeah. Yeah, and I can imagine that makes her feel.

safer, right? There's more of an intimate connection. Yeah. I would imagine all of that has an impact on the child. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you would hope, yeah, you would hope so. And she said to us, actually, the Saga, she said that she almost didn't connect with us because she didn't want to have something that felt distant to her. So obviously being in a different country was scary, but she sort of looks at her profiles and thought she'll have a chat. And once she met us, she said, I could just tell that you really want it to be involved. And that made all the difference. So yeah, and I feel really lucky that we're able to do it in this way.

But if I couldn't do it in America, I 100% would still look to do it in the UK. And I wouldn't want it to put anyone off because it's such a special thing. And I think things need to change in terms of the law. But so many people do it successfully. And it's an amazing thing. So I would have still done it in the UK. But fortunately for me and Jamie, we were able to kind of do this process, yeah. Yeah.

Just one last question on the process is so when the surrogate gets, gives birth, you were there, you and G, you're there. So from that moment, the child is handed to you and Jamie? Yeah. So I think the probably the most difficult part of it is that when the baby's due, we had to fly out obviously a couple weeks before and we're there for probably six weeks while we wait for the baby's passport. So that's tough because obviously we're in a different country, we've got to find our feet

with a new baby and get everything they need and no family around. And you want to be at home, you know, once you've had a baby. So that's tough, but it's a small price for us to pay, you know, to start a family. So, yeah, we fly over to America in January, obviously, which is one of our babies due. And then you both are dads. And then we're dads. And, yeah, life's about to get really real. Life is about to get real.

I'm here to tell you life is about to get real. What I've learned so far, so we just got out slightly, is already from announcing that we're having a baby. You know, there's been online articles that have had horrendous. comments on it. And it is already made me so protective because it's not just me and Jamie anymore. It's not just us. It's like we've got a baby here. Really? Can we? I didn't realize. Yeah. So people are, some people are negatively commenting. On our social media on our announcement, it's been absolutely lovely, you know, brilliant. But there was an online article and it had over two and a half thousand horrendous comments on it. Two and a half thousand? Two and a half thousand.

Saying what? Child abusers, pedophiles, sex traffickers, um, disgusting, stealing babies from mums. It was it was awful to read it. Me and Jamie were really strong and I can back those things off, but I think it just reminded me that we're bringing a baby into the world and there was so many people with those views. And that's scary. And that's why I was most nervous about announcing it because I know some people don't believe in it, you know, but ultimately I look at it and think, you know, we're certainly not stealing a baby, you know, it's our DNA with an egg donor, a surrogate is We're really grateful to her, but she's not a DNA connection to the baby. And we're bringing a child into the world that is going to have so much love.

My biggest fear in life is that I'm not a good dad. And I think I have that fear because I didn't have that as a child. And I just would hate the idea of like, me not having a loving home, meaning that I don't have that to give. And I know I do, and I know Jamie and everyone thinks that I do. And I know that I will, but I think that's my... will, but I think that's my fear. And we've got so many great people around us.

We've had so much experience with our goddaughters. And yeah, I just, yeah, I'm really excited by it. That's one category. I have zero doubt. Yeah, thank you, thank you. I have zero doubt. You both will be winning Father of the Year consistently. I have no doubt.

I have no doubt. Truly, I have no doubt on that. Can we talk about the new business? Sure. Because this is such an exciting time for. you. Not only are you about to welcome a child and you and Jamie are stronger than ever and you have all of these, I think you've reflected well on in the style and your tenure there. So now you both are launching a new business.

We are both launching a new business and I'm really excited. Well, I say we both. So I'm launching it with, I've got a new business partner, which I'm going to be doing this with, which is exciting. It's a bit of a different dynamic to what in the the style was and Jamie is yeah he's involved in it fully he's supportive all the way with me and I'm really excited because um from where I was when I left in the style and I was such a shell of myself I now am in a completely different place and I've got so much purpose back from doing this and I think if I hadn't done this again I would have been a bit lost with with what I was doing so I'm really excited and it's going to have all the values of what I had it in the style all the things

they care about inclusivity, like, you know, women empowerment, you know, people feeling positive and confident in what they're wearing. Yeah, so I'm really, really proud of what we're doing. And to me, it feels like, I don't know if the words are comeback, but it does feel a little bit like that. You know, I kind of hit rock bottom and I walked away from my business that I loved. And for me, this is a brand new, yeah, journey, a new door opening and a bit of a comeback for me.

And that feels quite special, yeah. Yeah, I love it. I love it. I love it for you. You know, I could see that you were ready. Yeah. And what's interesting is a lot of people told me, Paul, right before my wife and I had kids, you can have kids, it's going to slow you down.

Yeah. Not at all, right? Yeah. It is fuel. Yeah. Just as your nan was fuel, right? They, they are fuel. I 100% feel that as well.

Like already, I feel like when I think about things, I think we're doing this for our family, you know, you know, so I feel that and I can imagine what that will feel like, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Last question for you, Adam. Everyone gets this. Okay. Can't wait to hear your answer.

Yeah. When you think back through all of the incredible conversations you've had in your life. Yeah. What stands out as the most memorable? Who was it with? And what did you learn? Of course, that's a really tricky one. I think the thing that probably stands out the most to me in life is just probably the

conversations that I used to have with my nan. And I think one in particular, you know, when I was around 16 years old and I was going to live with my dad and I obviously had come out of school with no qualifications and stuff. And she just said to me, you know, just believe in yourself and you can do anything in life. And I think that always stuck with me, you know, because I essentially did do that. And listen, I don't sit here and say, you know, God, I've done this, I've done that. you know, I don't feel that way, but I do think, you know, I really believed in myself at times. And that helped path my future and kind of get me to where I was with the business and

with Jamie and everything. I think that really stands out as a conversation that I'll always remember that drives me to do things. And it's really special to me, yeah. Yeah. And definitely something that I'm going to really take on to speak to my future child about, yeah, and let them know that, you know, put their mind to it and they can do anything. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. You know, when I think about your journey, I, when you first came onto my radar, you came onto my radar as an entrepreneur. Yeah, sure. You know, as a businessman, right? And I think that for many people, that's how you register. But I think that your ultimate legacy is going to be phenomenal dead. Thank you.

I truly do. Yeah. I can see that everything that's happened. in your life has led you to this point and has led you to understand what you should and should not do. Your story is also one of someone who stands on principle. Yeah, definitely. And I think that's very important in conscious parenting. Yeah, definitely.

And so you, truly, you have the makings to me to be a phenomenal dad. And I think that's going to be your legacy. Thank you. And I really feel like, you know, when me and Jamie post our announcement, it wasn't about, you know, posting it on social. It doesn't matter. But just sharing it to the world was such a huge moment for us. And this last week or so has just been like it felt like everything I've done in life

has kind of led me to this, if that makes sense. And it really feels like a change is coming and a chapter's changing. And yeah, I hope that what you said is true. and that's now what's important to me. And I feel like everything I've learned in life has kind of led me to be a dad. And, yeah, I'm so excited, yeah. Yeah, look at that.

Well, Adam Frisbee, you came here to talk and talk, we did. We did. Thank you, Paul. We did. Thank you so much. Frisbee, epic surname, man. All I can say is, Adam is going to be the most incredible father on the planet. and the fact that he is most concerned about being a great dad is why I know he will be a great dad.

That was shocking, that was shocking, especially in 2025, that there is such a high level of misunderstanding. And I think a lot of this is because there's a lot of misinformation and disinformation around same-sex parents. but 2,000 comments is just ridiculous. If the UK is interested in having more or higher rates of surrogacy here, then laws have to change. Adam has been on my radar for quite a bit, but I've only known him as this entrepreneur, like this business guy, like that's all I heard, this business guy that works with influencers. I had no idea the fullness of his story. childhood, my God, the trauma that Adam went through as a child repeatedly, repeatedly,

is something that no child should go through. When he talked about being 15 and his mother and his mother's boyfriend giving him 50 quid and basically kicking, oh, 50p, oh my God, 50p. Let me ask you something. When was the last time you really thought about how you love? Not who, but how. Most of us don't. We're moving fast, doing life, hoping love just shows up and sticks.

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