Wonderful! - Episode 10: These Women Are Telling It All

Episode Date: March 8, 2016

We discuss the unconventional Women Tell All special, during which accusations are hurled at Ben, the contestants and also a real life barnyard animal. We also have some programming notes, by which we mean about the future of Rose Buddies, but also about the literal cybernetic programming of CAILA-001. MaxFunDrive ends on March 29, 2024! Support our show now by becoming a member at maximumfun.org/join.

Maybe you should go and do some contemplating. Right reasons, right reasons, being a good girl for all the right reasons. Right reasons, right reasons, being a good girl for all the right reasons. I'm the best rep and I'm rapping to your poolside. Here to find true love. Hi, this is Rachel McElroy. Hey, this is Griffin McElroy. And this is Rose Buddies.

Do you like how casual I was about it? It's like you just sauntered up. No big deal. Rachel, before we get started talking about this thrilling and exciting Women Tell All episode, I was wondering if you had something that you wanted to apologize for. On last week's episode, I was meaning to discuss the, quote, long talks. So you can't say it. So you can't say it. So you can't say the

damn words. And what came out of my mouth was not long talks. That sentence was almost dubious. I'm going to pull a Chris Harrison right now on you. I'm just going to sit here and just be like. Was that tough? Was that tough for you? Was that tough for me? Yes.

Yes, it was very tough. I received a lot of Twitter and Facebook comments. Just want to say big ups to everybody who tweeted at me and my dearest beloved, the words long cocks. A lot of you got very bold with your Twitter interactions. Not exactly sure how I feel about it, but I'm going gonna say at the end of the day i guess neutral yeah and you did incite that rebellion to be fair with your clever editing um you can't edit what's not there though that's the editor well no but you replayed it yep several times but you there would be nothing to replay if you hadn't said it in the first place so i guess agree to disagree.

But thank you for your apology. It means a lot to me. Was it tough for you to apologize? It was tough for me to apologize because I was very sure that I didn't say that until I heard it over and over again and got it hashtagged at me repeatedly. Just relentlessly. Gang, if this is your first season watching The Bachelor, first of all, let me say I rescind the things I said about it being a not great season early on.

Some of the women were stinkeroos. And I think that holds up just like look at like panning over the crowd at the women tell all because like I didn't recognize basically half of them. There was a woman there who was like ain't Ainsley in the quotation mark quotation mark, Ains! I was just going to say, you know? Oh, you know her? Let me describe what the Women Tell All is. Please do. We still have people that listen to our show that do not actually watch the television program. So every year, regardless of whether it's Bachelor or Bachelorette, and I think they do it for Bachelor in Paradise, too, but they don't call it Men Tell All or Women Tell All.

No, they just fucking line them all up. It's like a reunion. They line them all up in front of a big wall and just hose them all off. That's the reunion. If only hosing would get them clean. There's a spiritual dirt. The episode before the finale is always an opportunity for eliminated contestants to come back and interrogate each other and the bachelor or bachelorette. Correct.

And so that's what this episode was. It was a rowdy one. You know what? Actually, it wasn't even that rowdy. It was rowdy in the sense that there were barnyard animals in the mix. There was. The chicken enthusiast was back with a chicken named Sheila. Oh, cool, cool, cool. That's a cute prop.

I don't remember you. I don't remember your fucking quirk. You don't remember the chicken enthusiast? When I saw a woman holding a chicken, I was like, oh yeah, I remember there was a chicken enthusiast in the mix. I don't know her fucking name right now. I couldn't tell you. Tell me your name. I don't know her name. Yeah, see? We knew there was somebody who was

into poultry, like, in the squad. But we didn't know her name. We didn't know, like... No. Oh, yeah. She got eliminated first night, I think. Yeah, she did. A lot of women did. Yeah.

But they still came back. But not everybody was there, which was weird. Red Velvet. Red Velvet wasn't up in the mix. Oh, you're right. Yeah. Laura. See, I remember her because she had the nickname Red Velvet.

I was like, that's great. Yeah. I wonder where she was. I wonder where she went to. It seems like the Bachelor contract keeps you on a pretty short leash vis-a-vis reunion shows um anyway what i wanted to say earlier is if this is your first season watching the bachelor i am overjoyed um that now you know what's up with chris harrison now you know why chris harrison is like the absolute best in the biz uh and he's so great and i honestly

it's gotten to the point where he's in the episodes like so rarely so infrequently and for such a short span of time usually for the three sentences that we usually say at the end of our show um that like i forget and then bachelor women tell all and after the final rose i'm like fuck this guy's good he's so good at at, like, he's like jazz, baby. Because it's all about the questions he doesn't ask. It's true. He's really good at drawing people out. You know, they'll make one comment, or they'll reveal one particularly vulnerable moment,

and he will probe. And he gets them to say things. Which is essential. This is a hard show to do that in, because the amount of screen time any given woman gets is like not very much and they try to build these narratives out of like very very very little actual spoken word content and so like there's actually some realness in this episode and we're gonna get to everything i just like i just wanted to offer some quick thoughts right up at the top just like you know just do it raw while it's still the emotions are so raw in me. But like both Lace and Olivia kind of like got real

in a sense of like, this show's like hard and weird to be on. Like I didn't know what I was doing. And Jubilee too. Jubilee too. And like, it sort of like really laid bare the fact that like, this show probably is wicked hard and weird to be on. And it must, it's hard for the contestants, obviously, as they talked about tonight.

How hard is it for the contestants obviously as they talked about tonight how hard is it for the host to like keep those narratives going with these like absolutely threadbare like character development if you want to call it that and yet chris harrison can get you there when you interview chris harrison it's a collaborative effort of him like i'm gonna get that tear out your eye i'm gonna get that tear out your eye oh it's so good yeah he he got contestants to say things and to articulate themselves better than i think they even knew they could yeah somebody sent a screenshot of him next to the host uh the stanley tucci part from hunger games yeah i don't know the guy's name but i can see it i can see. Same way they'd be like, how did that make, was it hard killing your boyfriend?

Anyway, Women Tell All. It's going to be kind of scattershot. It's not a traditional episode. I think what we decided is we'll try and just kind of focus on the, I mean, the episode kind of does this too. There's some random thoughts here and there, but mainly focuses on like the big dramas. Yeah, exactly. Like they do at the very beginning, they show like a montage of like, here are all the big

controversial moments. And so you get to see Leah ratting out Lauren B. Yeah. You get to see all of Olivia's like big mouth moments. You get to see everybody like trying to coerce Jubilee into like having these conversations she doesn't want to have. Before we got to that, something we talked about tonight that I hadn't really thought of before in every one of these specials they always do a let's go out into bachelor nation chris and the bachelor bachelorette goes to viewing parties

and like gets together and hangs out with them and they always talk about like oh bachelor nation you're so special like nobody watches any other show like this this is the first time we're really sunk in like hey holy shit i don't want to i don't watch any other show like this no this is the only show i watch like this and i've watched it like this for like four years and i wouldn't not like this is the only way that i can watch this show now how do they do is it because of these bits where they show other people having viewing parties and it like normalizes it we really like griffin and i should probably be on the payroll because we were so insistent. Like when people say like, I don't know, maybe I'll come watch with you. We're like, no, no, no, no.

You're going to watch. You're going to participate in this fantasy league and you're going to come back week after week. I look forward to it more than I look forward to any other show. And I think it's like half because like I enjoy the show, but half like the event of like getting together and our friends like potluck in it. By the way, what you cooking? What you cook up?

What's cooking up in the bachelor kitchen tonight? Uh, I made a cookie tonight that I've made several times, not for this particular event, but just for general potluck. Uh, I'll recommend it. It's on allrecipes.com. It's titled mom's Island treasures. Uh, the origin of the name, I'm not sure sure but it has coconut chocolate chip and pecan in cookie form it's delicious based on the ingredients in the name of it i'm gonna say

some mom well coconut got well that also but i want to think that some mom just got really like really tanked and threw a bunch of sweet stuff in a bowl and turned cookies out of it. And they're like, Mommy, Mommy, what is this? And she's like, Mom's magical island treasure. I don't think it has a dark past the way you're assuming. I don't think that that story was dark. I think a fun mom made some tasty cookies for her children. And she was on vacation and they were all like, Oh, Mom, you work so hard. Why does she sound like a 60-year-old man when you did the impression?

Maybe she has a lung thing. Okay. Now I'm the jerk. Let's get into those fucking tasty-ass dramas. I think the one that gets kind of the shortest shrift is Leah. And that's the one they start with. Is like, Leah, you really sold lauren b down the river how do you feel about that she tried two unsuccessful pivots the first was well somebody had told me

a producer that uh lauren b had said something about me and then went to the went and told the rest of the women about it well no she said that lauren b and this sounds so uncharacteristic like i couldn't buy it she's like lauren b was saying that the girls were losers for being upset yeah yeah yeah yeah that's what it was i was like that was something like yeah i mean it's some donald trump shit which like lauren b is on the exact opposite yeah in fact if i were to like draw up a spectrum that trump is on one side of lauren B might actually be the antithesis of it. No, she'd be on the other side. And so, okay, but every woman then confronted you about talking about this with Ben, and you straight up lied.

And she was like, I don't see it that way. And that's when Jami jumped in. Jami was like, but you lied, Leah. You lied when we confronted you. And Leah was like, Jami, you have been gone like yeah yeah there was a weird trend of like jami and shoshana like i think it's time to get i think america wants shoshana's taking this really fucking shoshana really like all you could tell all the women had watched the show back and they like really wanted to be part of the conversation while we're talking about

shoshana i don't want to forget it there that there was a conversation about race that came up later that I thought was interesting. It was certainly... This show doesn't talk about race, let alone relationships between... Usually there's only one minority contestant. Let alone relationships between two minority races. And fucking Shoshanna was like, I think I need to get a hand on this ball.

Do you think that, Shoshanna? Do you think you need to... Anyway. on this ball. Like, do you think that, Shoshanna? Do you think you need to? Anyway. Yeah, they really don't spend much time. They also don't talk about Leah, the black eye. No, I thought for sure. A lot of you pointed out in the Facebook group, when they first teased this season, they show Leah with a black eye alluding to somebody hitting her. And it never makes an appearance in the series. And I thought for sure, because Chris Harrison said so himself on that other podcast,

Wow. that they were going to address it in The Woman Tell All, and they didn't. So we still do not know why Leah had a black eye. I mean, the only thing that gives me some relief is that if literally anything even resembling another woman giving her that black eye even on accident had happened it would have been you know in the trailer for that episode and the trailer for the episode before it like you don't think there's a lady fight club that happens there was a lot of like weirdly like a like there was a lot of like teasing a lot of

people talking about things that didn't get captured on camera during this Women Tell All. And it was pretty big stuff. And every time I hear something like that, I think, well, dog shit, because they're filming you constantly. And if something like that had happened... But they're not filming constantly. I still think it's possible they could have been off in a corner somewhere and not had a camera on them. I guess that's true, like the producers and writers of this show are i said writers that's probably right um they're so hungry for like scraps yeah that like

anything like anything like if somebody had actually said the things that people like accuse other people of saying then those people probably would have gone to the producers and been like you need to hit them up about this bogota thing that they said yeah i don't know and i don't know either. But, I mean, we can get into it, because Jubilee was next up on the hot seat. Which is what Chris Harrison calls it. Yeah, I mean, Jubilee stuff, you could probably

figure out, like, she said the thing about the helicopter, she was worried about it, anybody else want to go on this date, Ben was late for the date, and she was like, mm-mm, Ben's late, maybe I shouldn't go, I forget exactly what she said, but gave him some sass, and I loved it, loved Jubilee, Ben's late. Maybe I shouldn't go. I forget exactly what she said. But gave him some sass. And I loved it.

Loved Jubilee. That was great. But then Jami and Amber brought up that Jubilee had, according to them, on several occasions, said something to the effect of, I am going to get the furthest that a real black woman has gotten on this show, suggesting that Jammie and Amber, who are mixed race, were not the real black women on the show, because by nature of the fact that they were mixed race. Yeah, and at first Jubilee out and out denied it. Yeah, she said, I own up to the things I said that offended people on this show, but I don't own the race stuff. That sucks.

And so then they cut to commercial, and you think, these women are crazy jubilee clearly is denying it and again i said during that commercial break like if she had whispered anything even related like even close to that it would have been on the television show especially if she said it with the kind of frequency that these these the women accused her uh little did i know that yeah then we come back from commercial and jubilee is like well I could see myself saying something about being like the real black girl or bringing diversity to the show or some something to that extent not realizing like that's she was saying that like that's how I characterize myself but like not even realizing that that characterization inherently is offensive to the

yeah the two mixed race women in the same season. She apologized for it, and it seemed to really just occur to her while she was on stage. Like, oh. Oh, that sucks. Yeah, that probably was offensive to you both. Also, she did the, I apologize if that offended you. Yeah. Which is like, jubes, jubes.

And that's when Shoshanna jumped in and was like, oh, no, I heard you say it. I also heard you say it. Me, Shoshanna. Then they actually brought Jubilee up to the couch and had a convo with her. And this is the first time, the first of three times during this episode, where somebody was like, I don't know how to be on it. Like, this show is hard. It's hard to be on. don't know how to be on it like this show is hard it's hard to be on like well and she says the great thing too which really kind of parts the kimono if i might use your expression please do

uh when she's like you know i told him my whole family died it's not like we're gonna be like oh and let's make out you know she's like but i feel like he really understood me and he had an opportunity when i said that to turn away from me and he didn't you know and she's like i felt like he understood me in a way that people hadn't before yes and she talked a lot about how she's like she's not somebody you get a real strong good first impression of you have to get to know her i would and i would say that's especially true when compared to the other women on the show i think ultimately jubilee went home because you compare her level of like just being so completely down to clown from the jump compared to like a kayla or jojo

who are like i mean fucking it's it's it's absolutely bonkers that six weeks after meeting a person, you would tell them that you love them. That's like, especially knowing that they are on a reality dating show where they're dating a bunch of other people. That's inherently like, that's nutty. But I feel like there's still people on this show. I mean, when you come on this show, you have to understand, like, that's what you're in for. Like, that's what the show is, is, like, this is a dating show, and you get this far along in this week by saying I love you in this point in the season. And I think there's still people who come on this show who don't realize that and don't want to play that and don't, like, are still, like, hesitant and not going to be like, I love you in week six. You know what I mean? I feel like Jubilee was one of those people who were like, I'm going to treat this like a real relationship out in the real world.

And it's like, you can't, you can't do that. Well, and, and later when Ben comes out, she confronts Ben and she says, you know,

it seems like you gave everybody else more of a pass than you gave me. Like with Kayla and Jojo, when they were expressing concerns and being scared, you gave them time and you didn't give me time to kind of figure out how I was feeling. And he was just like, you know, you, when we were in Mexico, like you really pulled away and it was early enough that I thought like, if you're going to pull away now, it's only going to get harder. Yeah.

But not only that, like there's a difference between saying like, I don't know if I'm ready to love you or not. Like, I'm not ready if I, I don't know if I'm ready to love you or not like i'm not ready if i i don't know if i'm ready to like love somebody right now compared to like being awkward and uncomfortable around them because like it's just now sinking in that like in order to go further in this thing you have to like you gotta like lean into it in a completely artificial way whether or not like turns into something real or not is like fine whatever it could it still it has for a few folks but like it's not it's not that's not the normal way of doing it and i think there are people who come in and like i'm just gonna treat like any other thing and then of course you're gonna be uncomfortable like being tossed into such a like

artificially intimate situation and that's what's weird about the show. Like, the construct of the show makes women feel like if they can't make this work, they're unlovable. Which is something Jubilee says. Like, I just feel like I'm hard to love. Something that Ben also said when he got kicked off. And it's just like, in the real world, you meet people and sometimes it doesn't work. And it's not that anybody does anything wrong. You just don't have the chemistry there. Which was clearly the case with ben and jubilee like it just didn't it wasn't going to

go anywhere further to get in my weekly comparison to professional wrestling because i think that honest to god i think there's a lot of similarities of like you have to believe that it's real a little bit in order to enjoy it but then you also have to appreciate the artifice of it you have to appreciate the art and the craft of it right them crafting fiction from reality which i know i sound like i'm like talking about like it's the first reality show ever but they do it in a way that is so like pure and non-gamified that is is really genuinely fascinating uh much like wrestling uh it's it's like jubilee walked into a wrestling ring i was like all right punch fight time here we go regular old like we're fighting in the street here wait what's wait what are you doing you're like dancing around the ring and you're like you're climbing up on some ropes

what are you doing that's not like how a fight worked like you know what i mean it's like no that's a good comparison because she i think she just kind of thought like we're going to go at this like people would in the world. And any time it was, like, remotely, like, oh, you have to literally compete with these other women. She's like, well, that's bullshit. And that competition isn't just, like, be mean to the other women. It is, like, date this person in this specific televised way. You got to, to quote an Andre 3000, you got to play your part. And I think there's people who come on the show who are like, I don't know how to do that.

I don't know how to do that. And they never make it far. I appreciate it. It's interesting watching somebody go at it with a realness to it. And I usually actually like those people a lot. I like Jubilee. But you don't make it past week four that way. And then we do find out that Jubilee has just recently made sergeant.

And she is still in the reserves. And Chris Harrison thanks her for her service. Yeah. And that's the end of that. Well, you did maybe a little long for that. Well, like to thank her for her service? Yeah, I mean, she's been off the show for a significant amount of time now. What was she supposed to do? Like come out and immediately he's like hey jubilee before we start things off

i don't know maybe the first rose ceremony be like you don't get a rose this time but here's a medal of honor i want president barack hussein obama and that's still important to me i know a lot of people have forgot about it to pin a medal on her during his next State of the Union. Lace came out, and Lace has always had a good sense of humor about herself. Because she was on the Bachelor after show and was particularly willing to laugh about herself. But we get a lot of footage that I'd kind of forgotten about of her sl slurring her words yeah that first night she was a mess she was sloppy yeah and just that's when we picked her we picked her up because we thought we thought we were going to get quote unquote bad girl points from her yeah really she was just kind of a mess i said i think

in episode two like lace is not and i said it about olivia too but it was definitely true of lace of like this one is not a villain like she's a woman who's like extremely uncomfortable being in this situation and so she's like hyper mega awkward and saying like a bunch of shit because she doesn't know like she doesn't know how to say it like i felt bad for her because it was like you are on television you have no idea how to do this how to be on this show um she was just self-aware enough to feel like weird about it yeah not like ashley s who like wasn't self-aware enough to feel like weird about it not like Ashley S who like wasn't self-aware and so didn't realize the crazy stuff she was saying was crazy

but not that one's better than the other because that was pure and beautiful and she's still one of my favorite contestants that ever played this game Lace is just as a reminder Lace is the one that removed herself early because her tattoo told her that if you don't love yourself you can't love anybody else can i get an amen now let the music play yeah um yeah uh she came on the

show and like literally said all that stuff like i'm really uncomfortable i had no idea what i was doing up there um and she was uncomfortable on fucking this she was uncomfortable here she was uncomfortable on this thing that we were talking about how uncomfortable she was during this shit. She was like, yeah, and I really have, like, I call my mom all the time. And my mom is, like, always telling me, like, you've changed so much for the better. It's like, Lace, you're on TV, dog. You don't need to say that to us. What are you talking about?

The most memorable moment, though, from Lace's interview was when a young gentleman oh boise's from the audience shouted out boise idaho um lace you are crazy you're crazy beautiful and then came up to the stage and revealed what appeared to be a tattoo of her face on his body. We are not confident that that was a permanent inked tattoo. But he came to the stage, Lace, just like a champ, just laughs and says like, Oh, gosh, thanks. You had to, sir. Hi.

Hi, sir. Hey, sir. This is Griffin McElroy from the podcast Rose Buddies. You had to do that to Lace. You had to pick the person who was least equipped to handle that live TV. Well, not live, but that on-camera, in front of a live studio audience interaction. You had to do that to Lace. You couldn't have done it to an Olivia or an Amanda or one of the twins. You had to do it to weird, weird, uncomfortable, awkward Lace.

Well, he didn't like them. He liked Lace. We all like weird, uncomfortable, awkward Lace. Well, he didn't like them. He liked Lace. We all like Lace. I like Lace. Not as much as he does, apparently, but, like, I like Lace. But you gotta understand, if you really liked Lace, you would treat her like some sort of bird of paradise where you didn't just, like, run up to him and, like, fucking

grab onto him. Yeah, so he comes on stage and... Chris Harrison was, like, the MVP where he's, like, he was like, can I get a selfie with her? And Chris Harrison's like, yeah, just don't touch her. And he kept like scooting in closer. He's like, no, don't touch. Hey, don't touch her. Don't touch her. He like lifted up his shirt

and like tried to angle his torso so that his tattoo face was next to Lace's face. And they took a picture together. And then right back into the interview, like nothing happened. He like started interviewing Lace again immediately after that and they acted like totally normal uh one last thing that happened with Lace oh uh Chris Harrison was like uh you know I've got an opportunity for you well he actually before immediately before he said

she said I'm not gonna like put a ring on my finger until like i'm like totally cool with myself and he was like are you there yet and she was like no i'm not he was like cool you want to come on another one of our like dating things that we do yeah something like that and uh it was bachelor in paradise i should mention i just made it sound like he asked her to be the bachelorette, which would be sick as fuck. Can you imagine her and like 30 dudes? Yeah, she would just be drunk, nervous, drunk all the time. Like me at a party where I don't know anybody, but for an entire season of television.

Fuck, that would be good. She would be really good. He said, would you like to be on Bachelor in Paradise? And she said, I would like to be on Bachelor in Paradise. No, she said, I would like to be on Bachelor in Paradise? And she said, I would like to be on Bachelor in Paradise. No, she said, I would like to go on Bachelor in Paradise. Yeah. So she didn't commit, but she said, like, yeah, you guys give me a call and tell me where to sign. I think she's in.

I think she'd be a good cast member. I think, I mean, that environment is so, it's such a great, Bachelor in Paradise is great for so many reasons and a calculable number of reasons, but also because it gives, like, women like her and Ashley S. who, like, just didn't do anything their whole season because they're, like, kind of awkward and uncomfortable and don't really play the game super good.

But then you put two of those same people in the room together, and it's like, this is amazing. Watching Ashley S. like, get her groove on with some dudes was like, it was like watching your cool, weird aunt like, go on a date. It was like yeah it was like watching your cool weird aunt like go on a date i was like fuck yeah this rules uh so the next the next person in the hot seat is olivia

i would like to say i think griffin and i have tried very hard to not be mean-spirited about olivia i think we've done a pretty good job i mean i did say her mouth was like galactus although she said that the mouth stuff was funny for the most part i don't think ours fell into like the naughty bad stuff category i i have never thought that olivia was like a cold hearted villain she's just a weirdo who got some weird direction from the producing staff of this show yeah um but she comes on and you can tell that this has been really hard on her you just said hard on i'm just saying is this good is this gonna be a weekly thing for you is this a habit am i gonna have to go through and like edit the show or am i gonna have to put a disclaimer at

the beginning like hi everybody this is griffin you're about to listen to rose buddies i apologize in advance for all the weird shit my wife's about to say like this weird like aggressively sexual stuff my wife's gonna say i don't know when it started either but it's it's troubling and it's problematic uh and olivia says i i feel kind of like jubilee does and that i'm not somebody that you know it warms up right away and i'm somebody that's complicated and that you have to get to know i mean you're not an orphan probably you're not an orphan army sergeant but and then she says but unlike jubilee nobody ever really confronted me and she's like well emily confronted me once and then cut to emily who is one of the twins as you'll recall uh and she's like motioning

feverishly and has two fingers up, and she's like, twice. I told you twice. Like it was like the most outrageous misspeak. She's just like, no, no, no, Olivia, I talked to you twice. You could just tell in that moment, like, oh, man. Oh, yeah, like her entire character on this entire season. Haley and Emily are just going to go after Olivia hard. And they did.

Yes. Most folks did. Everyone got up on Olivia. And then Amanda weighed in. Amanda's like, you know, you call me teen mom, and being a mom is my jam. She like, a little spin on Olivia. A lot of things that Olivia said, because Olivia said intellectual stuff is my jam, which is amazing.

But a lot of people saying things and twisting it and turning it things that olivia said and two different people made fun of the talk think talk smart yeah jennifer said we like to read books and talk smart things which was like a another woman said it too it's like oh you didn't hear when she also riffed on that yeah as well um yeah i I don't actually remember a lot from Olivia, except for her surprisingly earnest apology at the end there. Yeah, she said, like, if there was a book about how to go on this show and become friends with 28 women, like, I would have read it.

She said, you know, none of us have been on a show where you're supposed to date 28 women and i was like oh except for the two women up there becca and amber who definitely definitely do have some experience yeah but you just i like i felt genuinely bad for her because she's like there's you know there's no way to know how to do this and she's like you know and i did a lot of stuff wrong and i and i regret it um i mean you gotta think about it too the layers of bad shit that happen on this show are for the the repercussions for being on this show the first is the much much smaller layer of the women can be mean to you and you can be mean to the women like maybe you have a comment maybe you don't but like there's more of them than there are of you.

You're gonna get ganged up on. It'll be a rough time in the house. That's 0.001% of the negative shit that's gonna happen to you as a result of being on this show. The other 99.999% is the internet afterwards. And I don't doubt that, like, Olivia, because she was cast poorly and awkwardly as the villain of this season. Yeah.

Like, I can't imagine the amount of, like, well, just being a woman on the internet is shitty to begin with. But also, like, in this particular role, like, I can't imagine the mountain of shit that she had, like, underwent because of that. And that's, that is so rough. And she, like, talked about that in no uncertain terms. Like, you know, some of the, that's when she actually said, like, the about that in no uncertain terms like you know some of this that's when she actually said like the things that people like i've been bullied my whole life um and i was bullied you know really bad as a kid and just like the things that people would say after i was on this show like the mouth she said the mouth stuff it was funny well most of it was

but like the things people would say were horrible and it's like oh yeah that's right it's not just this show you're a person out in the world and then people people watch it without this sort of clarity of knowing like oh well they're kind of playing a part no it's a reality game maybe i shouldn't fucking tweet horrible people i think because they're people i'll never meet in my whole life and they're like livelihood has no bearing or impact on my own so maybe i shouldn't tweet like die at them there are people who don't do that who don't have that part of their brain and like it must be horrible it must be horrible to be like any sort of public figure at all in the world anymore but especially one that is cast as the villain in a uh uh like a network reality

television yeah who again never said anything never said anything intentionally bad and the one thing she did say that i can remember was the teen mom thing which she then like doubled down like apologized to amanda like crying like i'm i really am so sorry yeah she was like it was stupid and you could tell she was just like i'm an idiot like i said that and it was dumb which drives home like there was no villain this season there wasn't well i think emily and hayley if they had beenley, if they had been edited a little differently, I think they could have been. Because the way they went after Olivia and the way they did on the season and tonight was cruel. They wanted blood. They were not satisfied.

But again, I'm going to argue for them being just sort of clumsily placed in the roster of this season of the show as like that's their whole identity like that's all they had they had twins and i think everybody realized like well this is nothing like this is nothing you can't get anything out of twins like there's two of you this is what i'm talking about i want to go back to week one griffin and high five myself when i was like the twins thing is fucking nothing they're related they're siblings that's not a fucking identity that sucks that's a bad character if you want to call it that and so like this very first thing they had they attached to and they're still weirdly desperately attached to it despite the fact that olivia never really did anything from what i can tell that was particularly bad towards them they just like she wasn't she wasn't especially good

like just sort of being a person to the other people in the house. I don't think she was, like, aggressive or mean about anything. But she was, like, thoughtless, I would say, on occasion. Yeah. And, like, yeah, just thoughtless is a good—like, the Teen Mom comic. That was a thoughtless, dumb thing to say. But it wasn't coming from a place of malice. That was, like—but that was every interaction she ever had with anybody.

There was no villain—there was no, like—if you think that anybody in this season is really bad, go back and watch, like, a Courtney. Yeah. Who was, like. That's from Ben's season. The other Ben. Which, again, Ben Flujanic. Oh, my dad. Like, that was still very much a part.

Right? But she was, like, she leaned in and went full-blown, like, Cruella de Vil, like, Disney villain. Michelle Money was kind of a villain, too. Which is weird. I never watched Michelle Money's season. Yeah. And she came back for Bachelor in Paradise, and I was like, oh, like Disney villain. Michelle Money was kind of a villain too. Which is weird. I never watched Michelle Money's season. She came back for Bachelor in Paradise and I was like, oh, she seems nice. Yeah. No, she would, she would go and pull the Bachelor away and she would just be like, just send

all these other women home. Like all these other women are nothing. It, this again, I'm going to bring up, this will be my second wrestling comparison in a single episode. But it's like Bray wyatt is a villain in wwe he's a big bearded like bayou hillbilly man with a bayou hillbilly cult family but everybody understands like he's a wrestler playing a bad role that doesn't mean you don't like the wrestling anymore despite the fact that you know that he's like been cast in this role um it just makes you appreciate like how well he can play it i think that there was

nobody who filled the villain role very well and in fact like i think they probably realized after casting like none of these women are going to fit the villain role especially well and you watch it you watch it happen like because they they pivot right they went to lace they're like lace villain time baby own it own it own it week two she's like no this sucks i'm not doing it and they're like okay uh olivia do it olivia do it i think they went to leah and they're like leah do it say say that lauren b who's like the wifey the front runner uh say that she and then that didn't work either like they didn't have a villain this season and they pivoted like so hard trying to find somebody who could be that when like there's

nobody there that could have done it like it was it was altogether a i would say somewhat like boring for the most part even though i'm really happy with how this season turned out uh but like nice crew of people there was no villain this season yeah i don't think so either um the last lady that gets some time is Kayla. And maybe you can explain to me. So Kayla comes up, she's clearly upset. She clearly feels like, you know, she obviously is seeing now that Ben told the other two women that he was in love with them. And she doesn't understand why he never fell in love with her, and how she has all these feelings. And it was so hard for her to say that she was in love. And I just felt nothing, man.

I was watching her up there and I knew I was supposed to feel bad for her. I just can't feel anything when I watch her. Yeah, going back and listening to last week's episode that we did and then like thinking about it and then watching her sort of compilation stuff um i talked about in the last episode like i feel it was she kind of fizzled out and now i kind of realized it's not because of the result of what happened it's not because she went home it's not because like ben stopped responding to her it's like i also stopped buying it last week was the week where i stopped buying it yeah um and one thing she says that i thought was like really devastating is like she's like i watched ben and i watched him look at lauren and jojo and i just wish i

had somebody that looked at me that way which is just like a heartbreaking thing to say and i just looked at her and i was just like i mean bummer bummer. You know, like I just like didn't feel bad for her. And I felt like, what has happened to me? Well, no, I think it has to. I think it is partially from a narrative perspective. It was anticlimactic last week. Like one hour into this two hour weekly show we watched together uh we knew who was going home and so we had like all that time to kind of prepare and be like well it's not gonna

happen to kayla and so it wasn't like there was a rose ceremony where they got sent home and you're like no no not kayla no how could you do this like i really liked kayla and i thought she was like a she was a good contestant she filled her role really well and you know i thought they were cute together i can i can say that i thought they were cute together. I can say that. I thought they were cute together. It's also Ben is so obviously connected to Lauren B. Yeah. It's just like you knew Kayla didn't have a shot.

And so you're confused why she thinks she did. But go back to the first half of the season. And she's the front runner. And you're like, no one's going to unseat Kayla. Nobody's going to unseat Kayla. I mean, it's just how it works sometimes but like i also think like this running joke we have about her being a robot is first of all not a joke absolutely 100 true she's synthetic organism but programmed to be very good at this show and she's great at it apparently not the best or

she would have won but that's neither here nor there um i i think there's some truth to that and like you you don't even have to like you don't even have to try to see pierce through the veil as much as we try to on this show of like what's what's going on behind the scenes and like who's who's following a not a script but at least a storyboard um to realize like oh this person's playing the game they're playing it good um i think she's the most obvious person of just like well yes you you can imagine like chris harrison asks a contestant a question and you think in your mind like what would be the quintessential bachelor contestant answer to this and it's 100 of the time exactly what kayla's about to say. I feel like maybe that's kind of grating. And I think it's because I've come around on JoJo a lot, actually, since last week, too.

I actually think that they're pretty good together as well. I really like her as a contestant. Yeah, I guess so. And I really like him and Lauren B. This is the first time I've actually kind of liked both of the final couples. I still think Lauren B's going to win, but I don't think it's gonna be like a a fucking landslide um but i but it's just not there with with with kayla like it's just not competitive i think all that stuff kind of comes together to be like you don't care about kayla anymore because you just knew that like this shine had come off the apple and and like it was so

telegraphed that she was going home and it wasn't going to work out and that kind of made you realize like that how how much she was yeah and she also didn't have anything really to hold on to with ben like obviously she was playing it perfectly and there was something objectively that you could appreciate about their relationship but when it came down to it like what did they have together i mean she smiled a lot and he seemed to like that i tell you what was more like sort of off-putting for for me is that i kind of came to this realization and it really like especially during her whole like weird awkward send home last week that she wasn't programmed and i mean that either literally or figuratively take it however you want um she's very good at playing the game she's very good at playing the role the role that she was playing though was not the winner of the

bachelor it was the and this is every season this is every single season the jilted third place yeah no you're right and i tried to phrase it last week and i did a bad job of it when i said like going home in third place is like more austere of a place to go home than second place but i feel like the runner-up the second place position it's like you're over you're done with get out of here you're like yeah you're a loser you lost you lost the game you didn't get it third place is like you get some time to simmer on that you get your own like special send-off thing you're a loser. You lost the game. You didn't get it. Third place is like, you get some time to simmer on that. You get your own, like, special send-off thing. You get a special sequence.

You get to be on the Women Tell Law. You get to be on Women Tell Law. And you get to talk about it. You get to, like, you get, like, a weird star treatment coming in third place that you don't get in second place. No, that's another thing worth mentioning if you don't watch the show. On the Women Tell All, they sequester the two finalists. They don't come out because you don't want any hint of who's gonna win so they keep those women away from the show so the only person you get to hear

from in that format is the third place finisher yeah so like she did everything perfectly that a third place finisher should do too like i i i i still think there's something inherently interesting watching somebody like Kayla play the game. Our group tonight, there were a lot of people who were like, she's just like acting. She's just like playing it. Like, this is make-believe bullshit. Like, they get upset when they, you know, see through the charade a little bit. But I still like, I kind of, game-recognized game.

Like, I think she does a great job. And I think she's fun to watch. Yeah, i think she's i think she's i think she's fun to watch yeah i think the most interesting thing about her and she kind of hit on it again tonight is she just she seems to struggle with opening herself up to somebody and she acts like she's all wires in there she acts like ben was the first time that she was really able to, you know, complete that command, I guess. And so I could see maybe some potential for her as Bachelorette if she were able to just have that struggle over and over and over again. Yeah.

And then Chris came out. Or, nope, Chris has been out there the whole time just like charming us all doing a great job it's ben's time ben's time it's been o'clock so and this is the point they always save it to the end the the star comes out and is just hammered by all the contestants oh i thought you're gonna say drunk i was like oh maybe maybe i mean ben ben has a history um but yeah he comes out and then all the women have a chance to ask questions so kayla asked if her confusion stalled out their relationship and he's kind of like no it was more symptomatic of where we were at and how we weren't

progressing and then leah is like i told you you always like tell us how you were feeling and i told you how i was feeling and then you had to go around and her thing was interesting because the first thing that happened when ben came out is chris was like you told two women you loved them you fucked up you goon um uh he didn't say that these two are desperately in love and i'm crazy about it i ship chris harrison and ben higgins uh but he said like you told two women i that you are in love with them what's up with that and ben says you told me to try to compartmentalize all these different relationships not compare and contrast it and so when you do that to the degree that i have done things

then you can fall in love with two women at the same time that's like how he argued it which i still think it's kind of goofy but like at least he has some base level justification for it and so leah's point was if you've compartmentalized everything when i came and tattled to you on some made-up fakey fake bullshit about lauren b why did you go tell lauren b about this fakey bullshit lie i told you about and i was was like, Leah, that's the dumbest thing I've ever... Yeah, Ben was like, well, you gave me something that I had to respond to. About another person. I had to confront that.

And he didn't tell her who said it. Like, when I came to you and lied, why did you punish me for lying to you about this fake bullshit? Yeah. It was weird. It did not work out the way that Leah wanted it to. And the Axeman shot it down. And Jubilee is like, you know, you told me I had pulled back.

And I mentioned that earlier. And then, oh, the one thing Jubilee does say. So Jubilee has a chance to confront him. And Ben says what I mentioned earlier that, you know, well, in Mexico, you pulled away from me. And then she was like, well, you seem to put all the blame on me. You know, it seemed to be like all my fault. The things didn't work. And he was like, you know, none of this is blaming.

Like, I was lucky to have all of you on this show like it's it's my fault just as much as it is anybody's you know and he's like and i want to make sure that that's clear to everybody and that was when griffin and i turned to each other and we were like ben should run for political office he should be the president of america he's really good there was not there were these women tell us this was the most placid i had ever seen because like a lot of it like the women were sparring with each other a bit and we definitely saw that they were like fired up and ready to roll like they were ready to sling some sling some arrows ben got out there and then you'll be like uh if you compartmentalize how come you

and he's like well no that was a different thing and you know i you know i'm you know and you know and i and you know and i and she's like yeah okay yeah no you're right and i'm wrong none of the women left angry at ben like anytime they were like what was the deal and he's like well here are the three reasons and you're like oh it makes sense yeah i made a joke that he should run for politics and he should be taking over that chris souls corn caucus um Because Chris Soles is doing something for corn. I forget what it is. I don't know if he's running to be the mayor of corn. I don't know if he wants to.

During the Iowa primary. He was like, yo, corn, respect. Like, we know, we know, we know. He did a commercial for corn. Corn is wicked. It's great. Like, is anybody like, boo corn? I guess subsidies.

I'm still not sure what those are. But, like, I don't understand who needs to argue for corn. Everybody's, like, really deep into corn right now. Oh, and then he said that harsh thing to Olivia. Olivia's like, oh, I wish we could have gotten a one-on-one together. And Ben was like. I saved those for women I like. Yeah.

He was like, we were, I was focusing on relationships that were progressing and that I saw a future with. And ours wasn't one of them. I was like, relationships that were progressing and that I saw a future with. And ours wasn't one of them. I was like, whoa. All right. She might have actually been the only person to walk away from the night being like, I feel like Ben was maybe a little rough. But that's what I do. But yeah, like, so Amanda had an opportunity and Amanda was just like, I just wish you a lot of happiness. And you're going to be a great dad.

You're going to be a great dad. As soon as Amanda started talking, he was like, how are the girls? She was like, oh, they're doing very well. And then Derek stickers, he's like, Kinsley and Charlie, man, they're great. That's why I'm pinching. Becca says, it's just so good to see your face. God. Hey, what does Becca and me right now have in common? We're both kind of thirsty.

Superwater Zero. Oh, do you have a contractual thing about how many times you have to mention that beverage? I wanted to make a joke about how Becca was kind of thirsty with that comment. It's good to see your face. I've lost this show twice. It's really great to see you. I'm a two time loser of a reality dating show in the bloopers they always do bloopers which are the best holy shit this one was all time in the bloopers they show becca having a conversation with one of the other women and she's like i just think that with chris and she's like oh oh wrong season referring referring to her first season of chris souls that might be the most real shit to happen this whole time uh anybody else say first season of chris souls that might be the most real shit

to happen this whole time uh anybody else say anything oh yeah chris said uh that so this this is all taking place after the finale after after he's you know ben chris asked ben like how are you doing and chris uh is trying to figure out you know like how are things post finale that we all haven't seen yet. And Ben says, I'm more in love than I've ever been. I would marry that woman tomorrow if I could. And then Chris is like,

can I hold you to that? And Ben's like, what? I get married tomorrow? How would that work? Hey, look forward to a new super special surprise episode of Rose Buddies tomorrow, I guess. And then the finale of this show is going to be very anticlimactic because, like, we know who's going to win because he's married to her. The other thing that was funny is that Chris asked Ben to tell the twins apart.

He's like, we've got Emily and Haley here. Which one's which? And Ben nails it. Yeah, Ben, he crushes it. You get them blooperinos from Good Shit up in there. We talked about some of them. A lot of large bugs this season. There was a great bit.

I rewound it and watched it in slow motion where a cameraman fell in a small hot tub pool at one of the destination dates. And the boom operator behind him grabs his camera from his hands as he falls into the water and saves this like super expensive camera from going into the water and being ruined and probably saves that guy's fucking job maybe life it's the most heroic thing i've seen in a long time um and then chris and ben have a real bro out, like, love fest. I mean, Chris just says what we're all thinking.

Chris literally says, you know I'm going to miss you, man. Mm-hmm. And. He says, I know you don't want to be remembered as the guy who was really good at being on The Bachelor, but you're on the Mount Rushmore. And it's like, wow, yes, like, yeah. I mean, yeah. Who else, who else? Shit.

Well, I have very limited. The only other person I think deserves to be up there is Sean. Yeah. Chris, I thought, was still funny just because, like, he was ill-suited for the TV. But, like, I found him very charming and funny. Maybe Mesnick. Everybody's so excited about Mesnick. I didn't see Mesnick.

I didn't either. But I think they like people who stay in the family. Yeah, absolutely. Sure. Yeah. And then we got a sneak peek of the finale. Yeah. Looks pretty crazy.

The new, sort of the big new thing that they showed is JoJo and Lauren B both sort of individually figuring out that Ben is also in love with the other person. individually figuring out that ben is also in love with the other person and jojo figures it out in a weird off camera like you just get my subtitles uh and he says i'm sitting on the bathroom floor with you and you know i just i just want you to know that i love you and he says but you love and jojo says but you love her too and he says yes and you hear like wailing and gnashing of teeth it's like damn x-man yeah um should we talk about what's gonna happen for us with the finale i mean i think we should frame it like we're gonna need an extra day to really think about things and really digest and really just sort of because we want to bring you the most sort of um like enlightened discussion that we can bring to the table the finale is just going

to be a meaty nug and we're going to need an extra day to chew on that well maybe not even an extra day it depends um it may be up late on tuesday wednesday at the very latest but not not the tuesday morning you've grown accustomed to no and you have you have old long-cocks McElroy over here to thank for that. I'm going to be visiting my family. What you'll get is some hot takes because I'm going to make

my parents watch it with me. You're going to bring your phone. You're going to bring your phone and you're going to use the voice recorder on it and we're going to inject those into the episode like live Dave and Linda

like shouts. I'm totally not going to do that. Do not gonna do that you got to it'll be so good at least one what if i write down no at least one get it on the voice recorder i can transfer and edit it into the episode i want at least one dave and linda like thought one one pearl from them and then it'll be a hit and people will love it and then we'll have to do it every season all right i'll think about it. It'll be so good. The people are going to love it. So yeah, Rachel gets back that Tuesday morning after the episode.

We're going to record it as quick as we possibly can. Get it up as quick. Not as quick as we possibly can. We're going to take our time. I think it'll be interesting because we'll be watching it separately. So we'll see kind of if you and I have the same reaction to it. Yeah. But we promise this will never if you and I have the same reaction to it. Yeah. But we promise this will never happen again.

I can't actually promise that. Yeah. We travel all the fucking time. So, yeah. We apologize for that. Oh, and should we tell them what we're thinking about for the interim? Oh, we got big plans for the interim. So, Bachelor, the finale is next week, and then there will be, what do you think, like a month?

From, according to Wikipedia, the next season always starts in May. I don't know when in May, but we'll have at least a full month off. So probably like a month and a half. Yeah. So there'll be a month and a half. That'll be six weeks of content that you're going to be missing out on. But I think we got an idea. I think it's a good one.

on but i think we got an idea i think it's a good one yeah we want to stick with our with our wheelhouse which is clearly reality dating competitions uh so we have been exploring and these need to be freely readily available shows i'm envisioning kind of a book club thing going on here where we can talk about what we're going to watch and then if it's freely readily available then anybody can watch yeah yeah so we're looking to watch. And then if it's freely readily available, then anybody can watch it. Yeah. So we're looking at reality competitions that are on Hulu or Amazon or on the actual network's website. A lot of people recommend that we watch old seasons of Bachelor and Bachelorette.

They are not. Yeah, you can't find them. They're like nowhere. Not for free. Yeah, you can like buy them on YouTube for like five bucks a pop. Like, nope. But basically the entire Vh1 milieu of flavor of

love i love new york rock of love daisy of love i think yeah it's one of them um we're gonna dip into those we'll probably just do like one episode for each episode of rose buddies yeah i've never seen any of those shows before and i don't particularly have an interest in watching the entire season i'm leaving the window open to watch more than one episode, because I think we're going to watch, for instance, A Flavor of Love and fall in love with it. There's a show called Basement of Love, too. Starring the entertainer, right? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

There's also something called Paradise Hotel 2 on Hulu. Which is very exciting. It looks like Bachelor in Paradise. There's a show that our friend Bristol recommended called Are You the One that I actually watched a trailer for and it looks kind of sick. They do like personality tests on everybody and then matches you up based on those personality tests. And that's supposed to be on the MTV website, I think.

I think so. So you might be able to watch that. Rachel has written down on a piece of paper here, Tila Tequila? Question mark? So I don't know. It's going to get buck wild in that off season. So yeah, we're trying to figure out how to keep this thing going there's gonna be a fuck like a six month long hiatus after bachelor in

paradise that we're gonna have to make some very tough decisions sorry we're not thinking about that right now we're thinking about the immediate future how we're gonna keep the ship afloat we got plans we got big plans. Anything else? We know who The Bachelorette's going to be. Can we talk about the fact that we both know who The Bachelorette's going to be? Yeah. We're not going to talk about it on the show until they announce it. We're not going to talk about it. No.

They'll announce it. I'm amazed they didn't. It's fucking everywhere. A lot of people tried to post it in the Facebook group, and I appreciate the investigative journalism that went into finding that, but I personally usually don't want to know stuff like that and i know a lot of people don't so they haven't announced it we expect they will soon we thought they were going to do it tonight it's amazing they didn't do tonight like it's talking everywhere everybody knows um they'll announce it at the after the final rose next week so stay tuned you'll see it then and you know we

can talk about it then but we don't want to spoil it for you on the show yeah uh we have by the way we have over 1500 members in the face you're fucking kidding me it was like 602 weeks ago i know people people man people have their theories and they they spread them around and i love it oh it's that bachelor nation shit like nobody watches shows like this i know i griffin and i watch a lot of shows religiously, like Survivor, for example. But we don't get a posse together to watch that. No. Although Survivor, I like where it's going this season. Nothing's gonna match up

against last season. No, last season was amazing. Last season was the best people playing the best game this game has ever seen. This season, people are a little you know, they're making some rookie mistakes, but I like some of the characters in there. You wanna wrap up? Yes. You wanna do it or I i'll do it i don't remember how to do it i'm griffin mcelroy i'm rachel mcelroy when you're ready final rose stay with us on this journey spoiler alert she is up with soldier boy