Wonderful! - Feed Drop: FANTI

Episode Date: June 4, 2020

Instead of posting a regular episode this week, we’re happy to share with you a new episode of FANTI, one of the newest shows on MaxFun! FANTI is hosted by journalists Jarrett Hill and Tre’vell Anderson, who provide hilarious discussions and insightful criticism about beloved pop culture topics each week. We’re wild about this show, and we think you will be, too — and we’re so grateful to Jarrett and Tre’vell for allowing us to cross-post their latest episode in our feed.Their latest episode breaks the regular format as they discuss the murder of George Floyd by Minneapolis police, and the rampant, inhumane escalation of police violence against protestors and Black communities across the country during this period of unrest. We encourage you to listen, subscribe to FANTI, and find ways to amplify black voices however you can.Subscribe to FANTI: https://maximumfun.org/episodes/fanti/Find ways you can help: https://blacklivesmatters.carrd.co/National Bail Fund Network: https://www.communityjusticeexchange.org/nbfn-directoryMore educational Anti-Racism resources: http://bit.ly/ANTIRACISMRESOURCES MaxFunDrive ends on March 29, 2024! Support our show now by becoming a member at maximumfun.org/join.

Hello, this is Rachel McElroy. Hi, this is Griffin McElroy. And this is wonderful. Okay, this episode is going to be lowercase w wonderful. It is not the product that Rachel and I usually supply for you. Instead, we are very, very happy, very pleased, very grateful to be able to do a feed drop of an episode of Fanti. We probably haven't talked about Fanti enough on this show. It's relatively new to the network. It is. But it is a spectacular show. And they talk about a lot of the kind of art and culture and music,

you know, that we enjoy. And so we're happy to have them with us. Yes. I am very, again, I cannot thank Jarrett and Travelle, the creators of the show, and Laura, the producer, for allowing us to run the episode that you're about to hear. Every episode is so insightful. I actually, as we were recording this, I was just listening to the Tyra Banks episode this morning. Yeah, they're like real professionals out in the world talking about this kind of thing.

They're real professionals, and I have learned a lot since I started listening to the show. And it is that makes it sound like a drag. It's not it's also extremely funny. The episode that you are about to hear, however, is not like the rest of Fanti. They are discussing the events of the past week and the murder of George Floyd and the escalating police violence against black people and black communities in this country. And Rachel and I felt like the best thing for us to do this week is step out out of the way and uh do whatever we can to amplify black creators go subscribe to fanti go listen to the rest of the catalog uh there will almost certainly be if i know the listeners of this show looking at their catalog like one of these episodes is going to have a subject or person that is uh near and dear to you and while you're at it do whatever you can to find ways

to donate your time and money, whether it's to like a bail fund. There are lots of links going around to a national bail fund, which we'll share in the episode notes or, you know, donating directly to protesters on the ground on the front line. Those of you that that have protested or are able to protest, you know, we appreciate what you're doing for our country and our democracy right now that's it we're gonna stop talking now uh and present to you fanti hey everybody welcome to fanti the podcast for all those complex and complicated conversations about the great areas in our lives i am fucking exhausted i think this is the third week that i've said that but i'm also politics and pop culture journalist Jared Hill. I am entertainment journalist and film critic Travelle Anderson.

We are doing a different kind of show this week. It's been a difficult week for a lot of us over the last week and a half, I guess, since the death of George Floyd. It has been frustrating and enraging and a lot. So I just want to say like we're doing something a little bit different this week. Yeah. As Jared said, we have both been feeling, feeling feelings and feeling things about what is going on. I can't I don't know if you all can hear, but there are protesters outside my apartment right now making their way down Fountain in Hollywood. And, you know, I think, I don't know, I feel like there has just been a lot of talk about this moment, the different demonstrations, about being tired of white supremacy and anti-blackness and police brutality.

And one of the things that's been important for me just to highlight in this moment is that, you know, as these demonstrations are happening, we've entered Pride Month. And it's not lost on me, some of the conversations that I see white folks and white gay folks in particular having about these different demonstrations and protests and uprisings that we see. And I don't know, I'm interested in seeing and manifesting what a lot of people have been saying about this moment being different than the other moments that have come before. Yeah, I will say that I feel like I've had a lot of incoming feedback from folks over the last week because of being on CNN a couple of times, which has meant that more and more people are reaching out than normal. And I will say I'm encouraged by the amount of feedback that I've heard from people that are, you know, really frustrated. And as I said on CNN, I think that more than we see people being angry, I think we see people being tired.

People are frustrated and feeling like we've been dealing with these issues for too long. And I will say that I am mentally, emotionally, and physically exhausted. I woke up this morning and I texted you guys. You guys were lively in our group thread getting ready for the show today. And I told you I was going back to bed. It was 930. Like, it's been a very draining couple of, I guess, week and a half, I should say. like what, where this is going to go, what's going to happen next, but also like, how do we get through it? Um, and it's been particularly difficult for a lot of us. And so I, I am excited to have this conversation, um, uh, with Dr. Joy DeGruy, which will be coming up in just a few minutes. And another thing that I will say that has probably stuck with me the most through this whole thing, uh, has been this video from Ernie Chambers. Ernie Chambers is now the

state senator in Nebraska. He's the longest serving state senator in Nebraska. And there's an interview that he is doing. He's a barber at the time. This was decades ago. And he's standing there cutting hair and he's being interviewed by this white man who's asking him about the problems of America and how do we fix them, specifically thinking about anti-blackness and racism. And I do want to play that clip here before we go into the conversation with Dr. Joy. So I want you to hear him talking to this man from the Lutheran Church who commissioned the documentary. And we'll be back on the other side of it. The problem exists because white people think they're better than black people and they want to oppress us and they want us to allow ourselves to be oppressed.

This is the big I agree with you perfectly. This is the basic problem. And what do you think white people think they're better than others? I can't solve the problem. You guys pull the strings at closed schools. You guys draw the boundaries that keep our kids restricted to the ghetto. You guys write up the restrictive covenants that keep us out of houses. So it's up to you to talk to your brothers and your sisters

and persuade them that they have a responsibility. We've assumed ours for over 400 years, and we're tired of this kind of stuff now. We're not going to suffer patiently anymore. No more turning the other cheek. No more blessing our enemies. No more praying for those who despitefully use us. We're going to show you that we've learned the lessons you've taught us. We've studied your history, and you did not take over this country by saying, we shall overcome.

You did not gain control of the world like you have it now by dealing fairly with a man and keeping your word. You're treaty breakers, you're liars, you're thieves, you rape entire continents and races of people. Then you wonder why these very people don't have any confidence or trust in you. Your religion means nothing. Your law is a farce and we see it every day. You demonstrated it in Alabama. And I can say you because you're part of the whole system. You profit from it.

In fact, you make your living from it. You couldn't walk around and talk to people, stand up in your pulpit on Sunday and preach nice little songs and say, now we're going to give thanks to the Lord for he is good and oh Jesus be among us as far as we're concerned your Jesus is contaminated just like everything else you've tried to force upon us is contaminated so you can have him I think it's really interesting hearing what um Ernie Chambers says in that video because you know so much of it of this world and how we exist in it you know hasn't changed um and I think that brings us to our guest today tell the people about her yes Dr. Joy DeGruy who we've mentioned here on the show multiple times she is a sociologist a professor and a speaker and I'm the reason I wanted to have her on today

is because the work that she does specifically focuses on the intersections of race and sociology and really the history that comes in with all of those things. I think that she does such a great job of being able to explain these things and using anecdotes to be able to do that. If you've listened to previous episodes, she is the one that describes why black people can't be racist, which was obviously controversial for some of you. But she she's the one that we've used in that clip to be able to kind of explain it. We responded to a listener letter last week that was asking a question about something that she said. And that is a big part of why I'm so excited that she's joining us here. And we'll be able to have that

conversation with her coming up right after this break. All sorts of wonderful issues, nerdy and political. Pop culture. Black queer feminism. Race, sexuality. News. You're going to learn your history, their self-empowerment, and it's told by what feels like your best friend. Why should someone listen to Minority Corner? Why not? Oh my God, free stuff. There's not free stuff.

The listeners of Minority Corner will enjoy some necessary LOLs, but mainly a look at what's happening in our world through a colorful lens. People will get the perspective of marginalized communities. I feel heard. I feel seen. Like you said, you need to understand how to be more proactive in your community, and this is a great way to get started. Join us every Friday on MaxFun or wherever you get your podcasts.

Minority Corner. Because together, we're the majority. All right, welcome back to Fanti. I am very excited about this conversation because as I said before, I have mentioned Dr. Joy DeGruy on the show easily three times, if not more. And I did not realize I had her phone number in my phone.

And I literally just, I texted Travelle, I was like, I think I want to try to call her and see if this number is right and if she'll answer. And she did. And she said that she would be welcome. She would be excited to come onto the show and chat with us. And it is like, I have not been more excited to have a guest on the show than Dr. Joy. And I'm just really thrilled about having her here today. So Dr. Joy, welcome to the show. Thank you. It's wonderful to be here. I'm actually awake. The days are blending now, so my body doesn't know when to go to sleep and stuff. So it's like...

Listen, the only way that I know it's Tuesday is that I'm here with you guys. Exactly. Exactly. I kind of wanted to just get your top line thoughts as you're watching these protests happen around the country following the death of George Floyd. And what's going through your mind as you're saying this time? Okay, so I had kind of, first of all, you know, the whole idea of minority. We're not minorities. The truth of the matter is, and the reason I'm bringing that up is because that's the problem. Part of the problem is we actually reason I'm bringing that up is because that's the problem. Part of the problem is we actually are not the minority. There's a great deal of fear around the fact that people of color dominate the world. That's a huge issue with this, all of this stuff

going on. The fear of annihilation, Francis Cresswell brought it up a long, long time ago. But on a very real level, there's some, I would say, literally pathological fear around annihilation. Annihilation meaning not that people are going to kill you off. I think largely the white population is one of the few populations that are actually shrinking. There are more, you know, Europeans dying than are being born. In are more, you know, Europeans dying than are being born. In the meantime, you know, people of color proliferate. We are the planet. And for normal folks, that shouldn't be a problem. But for people who feel themselves superior, they're threatened by the dominant gene, you know, but it's insane. I mean, the whole thing is just,

it's insane. So that's the first layer of things. The other thing that struck me is a perfect storm. We're having the perfect storm and the perfect storm in the sense that, you know, pre COVID, one of the things that most people know, anyone that's working with African-American people, we know that we are all over the place in terms of disparities, whether that's, you know, health disparity. It really doesn't matter, right? We know we are always at the tip top in terms of disparities. And what COVID did was let the rest of the world know, because we've always known.

I mean, every time, well, we know disproportionately, oh, we know in terms of achievement gap, oh, we know in terms of income inequality, all of those different things. All of those have always existed. So when they say, well, let's get back to normal, what are we saying? Right? So that's one, that was layer one, because I don't want to get back to normal. Let me just be clear about that. Because the normal that my people have experienced, it's not a normal that we should just readily lean into and accept. So that's that's that's one of my feelings about that. The other part of this is, you know, I'm doing I'm doing Wellness Wednesdays. So you guys could go to Joy to Group Publications, which is my business of Facebook.

And I'm my daughter and I are doing a series called Wellness Wednesdays. And we started this with COVID. And we started it because, you know, like my dad said, if a white man got a cold, a black man has pneumonia. So it's always worse for us. So I immediately as a mental health person, as a person committed to really healing, I mean, that's what my work is all about. I started to kind of take a look at the things that were occurring and when they were occurring and how. So we started doing the Wellness Wednesdays to really help people who, one, are sheltering in place in places that aren't safe. People are sheltering in place without the bare necessities. People sheltering in, you know, there are all kinds of layers

and our stress levels are already high, which compromises our health in the first place. So we knew that the stress levels for people of color and particularly African Americans are gonna be high, hence Wellness Wednesdays, we're talking it all out. So the first one, you know, we were talking, first of all, we're trying to figure out how to make things work.

Are we on? You know, we went through those kind of birth pangs. But then we started talking about real issues. And more recently, we talked about, I brought on black men, men and boys to talk about how they've been impacted by all this. We need to hear from people. You know, they need to have a voice. And what we realized is that folks didn't have a

voice. So we had, and it was very powerful because you had folks that are working in prisons, you had people who were academics, we had the whole spectrum, but they get to speak their truth. They get to create their own narrative, right? And for those who are out there whose names may not be known, they could lean in and feel like people were speaking their reality, right? And that's something that I've always felt very strongly about, if you know anything about my work. You know, I don't separate myself from folk. You know, there's not much you can show me that I haven't seen.

I grew up poor, South Central Los Angeles, all of the bells and whistles and all of the social ills, experiencing them. So there's that layer that looks at, okay, so prior to COVID, here's how we are. Now we're also looking at the world being shown, the world. Now this is really important for us to start looking at the world being shown. The world. Now this is really important for us to start looking at this thing globally. Because the only way we're going to arrest the issues in America is a global purview because police aren't going to arrest themselves. Okay. Let's

be clear about that. It's not going to happen. So on an international scale, when you start looking at what's happening is the rest of the world is saying, wow, these are crimes against humanity. Right? Really. I mean, in terms of the international court, America would certainly fit the bill for crimes against humanity in terms of what is being done to African American men over time. Very pointed, very directed. And the actual injury is evident. As well as, you know, other folks,

right? So they, you know, what they're doing to the folks at the border. Crimes against humanity. These are crimes against humanity. And so I think that my first thought was, let me reach out. So the most recent one we did last week, we it's called uh karen needs to go to jail you know what that's that's the name of the episode karen needs to go to jail was the name of the episode that was the name of the episode that i love it yeah karen needs to go to jail and so um in talking about that what i did because of my work is i gave people context why are you so mad at Karen? I said, well, let's just roll back and look at Karen. So I said, let's roll Karen all the way back,

starting with the constitution. Then the three fits compromise, casual killing act, and the fact that a huge percentage of the 4,000 lynchings that occurred, that was shown at the lynching memorial in Alabama were caused by white women. The Casual Killing Act was about white women. White women's tears have been weapons throughout our existence. This is not new. So what I did last week was I didn't just express what I felt. I gave people a chronology. So I showed them the laws. I showed them what has happened. And again, understanding that policing came out of slave patrols. Do all the math and you can't be surprised about what's going on.

These systems are working exactly the way they were designed to work. That's what we don't understand about it. So when we look at the entire picture, we have to pay attention to the fact that this has context. So Wednesday, as in tomorrow, I'm bringing on four attorneys and we're going to talk about how to get Karen arrested. We need to create legislation so Karen goes to jail because if Karen goes to jail, Karen will stop calling the police. And they said that if there's actually already currently laws on the books that, you know, and they're, and they're trying to stretch out this law to say that if in the act of doing what you did, you cause harm, you're going to be charged with the

murder and death of that person, the harm of that person. If in addition to the fact that you're going to jail, and then I said, and then slapping an inordinate fine on all of that together, going to jail and then i said and then slapping an or an inordinate fine on all of that together i'm sorry karen gonna sit down but what we can't do what we can't do is accept this you know i mean we made memes about it and all that i'm not okay with it i'm saying if it was any other circumstances you would go to jail and please know that when i say the perfect storm, here you got a brother graduate from Harvard that's looking at birds. You know what I'm saying? It couldn't have been a better person. She could have picked.

She could not. Because you see, other brothers, come on. Under other circumstances, it's not going to end right, right? So now think about it this way if if karen had uh when you know because remember she says i'm going to call the police and tell them that an african-american man is threatening me she told him that's what i'm getting ready to call the police and do and it's in and basically the the upside to that is and and they'll take you out right you know the other side of this is the reason i'm calling them and I'm saying it's an African-American man

is because I know the implications of that. So now that I know the implications of that, and if she had, let's just, even in the situation where the brother was saying, hey, back up, back up, you know, because she kept coming towards him and he's social distancing and he's saying back up. But had she attacked him, stay with me,

had she grabbed the phone out of his hand and attacked him, and the approach of the police after the 911, just all you have to do is the police are looking, they got the 911 call, and they see this black man in a tussle with a white woman. Do you understand? That could have turned a different direction immediately. And to the brother's credit, when he was on, I think he was on CNN,

and he talked about the fact, he said, you know, personally, I mean, he clearly, you know, floated above, you know, where she was living in her life. But he said at the same time, and his sister or his relative, whoever it was that actually had the thing go viral, she said she could have cost him his life. That was attempted murder. That was attempted murder. And so when we think about these things, and I do it like on Wellness Wednesdays, of course, I know that it's resonating with black folks, not just black folks, it's resonating all over the place. And there's a video, I know you probably have seen this video, of the police stop where the woman, he tells the woman, here's what happens. It's all his camp. He's driving up behind a woman. He gets out of the car.

I was going to show it. I didn't show it deliberately. But anyway, he gets out, the police officer. He tells the woman, we don't hear what happened before, but he tells the woman, go ahead and call whoever it was you were gonna call. Tell them not to come because we're taking you to jail and we're impounding your car. So the woman goes, I don't feel comfortable reaching for my phone.

And the police officer said, the phone is in your lap. Go on and reach for your phone. It's right there your lap she goes I'm sorry I don't feel comfortable he goes but you're not black remember we only kill black people yeah we only kill black people right tell me one time when we kill white people

he says you know we kill black people this is the police officer but what happens is his captain scene moves over to his captain, you know, and you got the press there talking to the captain. He goes, I cannot say this is what the man said. He said, I cannot tell you what was in his heart. police charge and he got to go got to go got to go and so so so what what's what this is all coming to is uh this whole notion i have a family member that's that's struggling with covid right now that that nearly died as a result of not because she had any pre-existing conditions because she didn't except she was black and you know racism is the only pre-existing condition so she didn't have any of the pre-existing conditions but they had recommended 46 years old recommended palliative care that's one step from hospice in other words you're going to let her die

well i have a friend who's a physician called in very kind very polite but when they know another doctor is listening in on everything within 24 hours her whole condition turned around she's in a rehabilitation center right now talking engaged getting her strength this is someone they were going to let die do you hear what I'm saying to you she had no there was no reason that's why my, my friend was like, they should let her fight. She's young. You should let her fight. They were going to let her die. Now, again, we have advocacy, right? Dr. Joy has advocacy. I have a number of

physicians, they're friends. And I'm saying, how about the black person that went in alone? And I'm saying, how about the black person that went in alone? How about the black person who doesn't have that extended family? Are you with me? They let them die in some of those cases. Now, I'm talking to nurses in addition. I'm not a parent. I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

But nurses will tell you, you have an overwhelming number of people coming in. Now, you just do the math. We know that white supremacy shows up with police, teachers, doctors, attorneys, your next door neighbor. It's everywhere. Why do we believe it doesn't show up in those environments? It shows up everywhere else. Right? So, so here's, here's, now again, this is firsthand because I got skin in the game here. I have family involved here. They lied about medications they gave her. So do the math. Anne is in the South. She lives in the South. So what happens is there are two ventilators available now. Hospitals overrun, two ventilators. Three white people come in needing ventilators. One black person walks in needing ventilators one black person walks in needing ventilators who gets the ventilator you know again you you have to understand there's a

decision that has to be made now if you're buying the rhetoric or you don't have a lot of synaptic activity going on you might go well it's not likely the black person will live anyway. Come on now. So why would we risk doing all that work for someone who, well, probably going to die anyway? See, those are decisions, but we're not there. Sight unseen. Now you have to understand my cousin, first cousin, this is her daughter. She couldn't even see her. She had never seen her. She was in another state because they told her she would not be allowed in the hospital. But do you think, just right now, Dr. Joy's daughter is in a hospital in a state somewhere and I'm not going to see her? You think I'm not going to see

my child? I called my cousin. I said, listen, you can FaceTime her. You could get an iPad. I'll go in on a drone. But what we're not going to do is we're not going to sight unseen, sign the death certificate of my cousin. That's not going to happen. But sight unseen, she would have signed my, my, my cousin's death certificate and see what, what we have to appreciate about this is the young, my daughter's death certificate. And see, what we have to appreciate about this is my daughter's 44. And you're going to tell me there's nothing more you can do and I'm 3,000 miles away

and I should, I don't know, just make funeral arrangements? She is up and talking right now. My cousin. Same person. Do you see what I'm saying? So we have to appreciate that some of the stuff that we're watching and we're seeing and we're hearing, we're making the same fundamental assumptions that these institutions have our best interests. And I know that the majority of folks do. You know, I think the majority of the, you know, crisis workers and all the people that are dealing with the front line, I believe that. But you also have to know that you sure if you're black, you better have some advocacy going on.

Absolutely. And part of what we covered on my show was what that looks like. So my friend who's a physician is trying to start a physician's movement of physicians who advocate for people with COVID. They just volunteer to call them. Hello, my name is Dr. So-and-so, and I would like to know about the actual treatment plan for, I want to know what your care strategy is. What you're doing. Yeah, I want to know what you're doing, right? And again, we have to show up and unfortunately we can't just on a blanket level accept that our well-being um is being considered and there's so again there's so many layers to this and of course plenty of people who are very naive ago you know the hospitals that's you know

they're doing the best they can are they and if you sight unseen you're just assuming that now i've been i've been in a hospital fair number of times and we know that there's good staff folks and there are folks that aren't so good and we know criminals criminals are everywhere so i'm just saying you know i'm you know i didn't i didn't just fall off a truck yeah so now we have right we have the the covid conversation and now we also have you know a lot of folks out in the streets demonstrating, protesting, you know, police brutality and institutionalized anti-blackness and all the white supremacy and all these other things. I feel like I keep hearing people say that this this moment that these demonstrations feel somewhat different than the ones that came before? As someone who does this work that you do, do you have that same feeling that this feels different?

Let me tell you how it feels different for me. Okay, because I came up through the Watts riots, right? So I was in the Watts riots. My parents literally put me on the floor of the car because they were looking in cars and going, yelling whether it was white or black and turning the cars over. And my father didn't want them to get some misunderstanding that I was black because I was a little light bulb when I was little. And when I say I was in it, my siblings' feet were on my back as I was on the floor of the car.

But what happened, the difference here is you have the whole world. First of all, you have a global purview different than any other time because the rest of the world, I mean, they started looking all over Rodney King

and people started looking on when these things are videotaped. But the horrific nature, the horrific nature of the death of this man, he called his mother. He called out for his mother and who was gone already. Right. And when you have a grown black man call out for his mother, have a grown black man call out for his mother you know what i'm saying and so you so there's been this palpable here's what i tell people in my presentations inevitably you know i don't give anybody a pass i don't i don't give you a pass because you're a nice white person so so what has happened for years is white people have gone well yeah, yeah, I'm a nice white person. I don't, you know, I don't kick dogs or anything. And I give to care and I shop at Whole Foods and I wear socks with bourbon socks. You know, I'm just a nice white person. And for years that would fly. You didn't have to care about Black Lives Matter. You didn't have to be concerned about the people at the border you're just a good white person but in 2020 here's the difference nobody gives you a pass including other white people okay so now white people are like i don't want to get involved with black lives matter but i don't want you to think i'm one of them. So you got white people that are like, I'm not getting ready to get engaged with activism,

but I don't want you to think for one moment I'm one of them. So like I tell people now I got white men opening the door two blocks away. No, no, I'll hold it. I'll hold it. And part of what they're doing is they're trying to say to me, I'm not one of them. And see, that's different. Where white people don't get a pass, even with other white people.

Other white people look at white people and go, God, I wonder if they're one of them. You know what I mean? So there is not this forgiveness that we've had in the past. And therefore, people are saying, all this time, I didn't have to do nothing. Just be a nice white person. i gotta do something now i gotta be about something i gotta show up for something right and i had an experience right my husband this is really funny so my husband and i you know but before covid you know i travel for a living so my husband will travel with me and i would tell him all the crazy stuff that would happen to me, just racist stuff that would happen.

Now, my husband is a black man, but he's also what we call ethnically ambiguous, right? So wherever we go, people don't know, don't think he's white, but they'll go, can't call it, right? So wherever we go, people start speaking the language to him. He gets in his feelings because he's black. He's a black man. So I'm telling you about all these experiences I have with people saying crazy stuff to me and doing stuff to me. And he's going, really? So we're on a plane together.

We get on and we're in, not in first class, comfort care, whatever that is, right after first class. It class comfort care, whatever that is right after first class, it's comfort care. So when we get, we get to the, our seats, we have the middle and the, and the window seat. That's what we have. So, you know, if I'm in the middle, I can lean my head over and fall asleep. You know, we, we, we work it out. So there's a white woman sitting in the aisle seat. Now remember, we are one row first class is right in front, the row right in front aisle seat. Now remember, we are one row, first class is right in front,

the row right in front of us. So we're really on the other side of the curtain. We're on the curtain with the side of the, with the first class. It's got, they got a little thing and then there's us and then there's another thing. So the woman wouldn't get up. I wouldn't, I leaned over and said, excuse me, we have, you know, the window in the middle seat. And she turns around in a huff. And then my husband goes, you know, because he doesn't experience this the way I do. So he goes, those are our seats right there. She turned around and looked at him. So he grabbed his briefcase and whipped it around because she wouldn't move. So he threw it in front of her and she was like, oh, you know, because she wouldn't move so he threw it in front of her and she was like oh

you know because she wouldn't move what could we do if you won't move so then she starts waving her hand for the flight attendant later and so the flight attendant goes can i help you yes i did not pay all of this money to have squeeze have to squeeze my butt into these chairs this is not what i i paid for so she's going on right oh no and the woman goes well i'm sorry there are no other i will have to wait for everyone to be get on and we'll see if there's another seat so the bottom line is she didn't want to sit next to us that's that's the long shot of it so she actually seats the woman behind me in the exact same seat just exact same seat right and she goes oh yes this is much better

because there was no one next to her right so my husband looks at me and he's like you know it's gonna be news at 11 we was it was we get ready to have a moment so and i said see i told you this crazy stuff happened so we're laughing and talking another woman comes in a younger white woman who's from the south thick accent she goes i'm just glad i got a seat she would say we were just laughing and talking and then my husband goes what a woman behind you certainly didn't like this he is not more he is not happy so then comes time for the food right so my husband and i are getting ready to order some food from the people and the flight attendant comes over and my husband takes out his wallet and she goes oh no no someone in seat number row number two said to buy you whatever you want right

and so of course everyone in first class was white you know that so I'm looking over there because I mean first of all I don't need you to pay for my food but what i understand is they were making a statement and the flight attendant said it loud enough for the woman behind me to hear it and they were saying you know we don't want nobody paying attention to us we just want you to know we saw heard what was happening and we wanted to do something so there are people that are out there that don't know what to do, but they want to do something. Right. And I never figured out who that was. We never talked, none of that. It was just like, you know, this crazy cow that was sitting next to you.

We heard her, we aren't okay with her. You know, they want it. They made it known and I'm sure they lit her up by the time, you know, she got off known. And I'm sure they lit her up by the time she got off the plane. I'm sure folks lit her up. But, again, all of that's included. So you got the crazies. You got people, opportunistic white supremacists that are on the street. You saw the video with the black woman telling the white woman to stop spray painting Starbucks. She goes, we didn't ask you to do that.

Why are you doing that? And when it comes down, they're going to show my face, yours and they're gonna show you they're gonna think we did that yeah and those are the infiltration of white supremacists and other groups that are trying to you know they're playing up both sides of it and then you got folks that are desperate that are out there they're already on the street so why not do some of the stuff they're doing they're already living on the edges. So you have everybody. So I promise you we wouldn't keep you because I know you have other things

and you have a class that I wish I was in at this point. There's a story that you told when I met you 10, 12 years ago at a friend's house and you were speaking to a group of people. Rafer. Yes, his name is Rafer Woods, it's, it's always stuck with me because it was a way that you were able to describe what you call post traumatic slave disorder. Um, it's a story that you told about syndrome, syndrome, excuse me. You told this story about, you told this story about how, um, I'm sorry, I'm eating, I'm starving. No, you're okay. You told the story

about, about being, uh, about a black mom being at a bank with her child, as opposed to a white mom with her child and letting the child roam off. Can you explain that and the difference in how that, um, how that affects us as we grow up? So one of the things that, you know, I started noticing when I came, when I just started working with the idea of multigenerational trauma in African-Americans. Post-traumatic slave syndrome is just another way of saying multigenerational trauma. There's no confusion that we've got multigenerational trauma leading up to now. OK, so I started to take a look at certain behaviors that we exhibited. I started to take a look at certain behaviors that we exhibited. And what I began to realize when I read lots of slave narratives and, you know, hearing the stories of elders and different people, autobiography, different things that I've read, I started to realize that, like anything and anyone, you begin to adapt to your environment.

If you're living in a hostile environment, you adapt practices that allow you to survive in your children. It doesn't make sense. It's not rational, but it's logical in the sense that you shouldn't have to do some of the things that we did to survive. So say, for example, I always say to people, and the reason why it is an update is I went to West Africa since then and did the experiment in West Africa. And what I actually, it didn't start off as an experiment. It started off with me just observing something in a bank. So when I talk to black people around the country, regardless of who it is, and I say, if you are in a bank in the United States and there is a black mother or a black father and they have small children, I always ask, where are those children in proximity of the parent? And everybody laughs. They go, hey, they're right next to them.

I said, and if the child should move to the right or to the left, get your, get over here. Get yourself a little snap. Get over here. And I'm watching, I'm in a bank and i'm watching this woman that has uh stair steps they're like maybe maybe five four three they're little and um every single time that child any child would move at all get you over here right in the same bank white children same age they rolling down the aisle how you doing doing? What's your name? You know, they're swinging on the little ropes, looking at all the little displays. They're all over the place. And the mother is going, no, honey, no, no, no, no, come back. Right? Kids are floating around.

And the black children are adhered. Sometimes they're physically holding on to their parents. are adhered. Sometimes they're physically holding on to their parents. So what we know in terms of human development is that there are different stages of development that we matriculate through. And each stage of development has a task of that development. For example, learning autonomy. How does a child learn to feel safe and secure even though they're on their own. In other words, it's being able to explore one's environment in a very safe way, and in a way where the child doesn't have to, can be detached from the parent enough to engage the environment. That's normal development. But these children are being told really kind of not to be normal. So there's something that gets transferred with both groups of children. The black children look at the white children and there's something that gets

seared into them. Anger, fear, and shame. Why can't I move? Oh, it's their world. I'll get in trouble. All of that stuff because they don't they don't understand why do they get to play and so then there's another social construct that shows up so then the mother gets to the teller and the actual teller you know the little the little counter is actually higher than the children are. So the children are underneath now and they're trying to escape, right? They're sliding down underneath because the mother doesn't see them. And they're really trying to fulfill the normal task of development, to explore autonomy in one's

environment, to have secure attachment. So what happens is there's someone else in the bank, doesn't know the mother, doesn't know the children, another black person. And they see the little kids trying to escape and they just lean over and give them the death stare. And then the kids see, oh man, and they get back in line. So now all this is nonverbal. There's not a single word that has been transferred to anyone. All this is nonverbal. There's not a single word that has been transferred to anyone. But when you start unpacking that and you ask the parent, why can't the child move? They'll start giving you reasons.

They don't need to be running around. That's just some bad-ass children over there. They don't need to be running around. And they'll go, now ask, where were you when you were in the bank? Right there. And we begin to practice what we've learned because that's where we were in the bank with our parents we couldn't move either but you understand that I was born in you know 57 but my mother knew what happened to Emmett Till

you see we we begin to understand that it's not safe for us so now years later I'm in West Africa and I'm in Ghana and I'm in a bank. And the first thing I'm doing is I'm just sitting there because I want to observe how people interact. I'm in Africa. I'm in West Africa. So there are children in the bank and the children are playing and the parents are sitting waiting for whoever's going to get ready to call them. But I see a perfect example this man walks in the bank there's a kid he's he's literally a toddler i'm i'm thinking the kid maybe was two maybe two years old and the father you know the little the little boy looked around and came he

was in a line he had a little book in his hand he was looking around father had all these papers was looking at all these papers and he was was just very, very concentrated on the papers. So he goes up to the teller. Right? He's now, whatever these papers are, he's dealing with it. And the little boy, you know, he starts walking around. But what I'm doing is I'm looking at the man, the father, to see when he was going to turn to look to see where he was. I was timing how long it was going to take

for him to just go, you know, come back or whatever, right? He never looked for him, not once. And when he got ready to leave, he's looking at the papers, he's putting them in order, he walks to the door, stops at the door, doesn't look, puts his hand out, and the kid runs up to his head. Never once did he look at him, not once. And when I was trying, I was getting ready to videotape it. And that police officer who was in there looks at me like, you can't do that. Yeah, I guess I can't. Thanks for that. Right. But what I saw was no anxiety. Everybody in the bank was black. There was no anxiety. There was no, oh, my goodness, I'm in the bank. Because I can remember being in the bank because you had to be in your best behavior when you went with your parents to any institution.

when you went with your parents to any institution. You had to be on your best behavior. And I can remember what best behavior meant because I could feel the stress from my parents. Does that make sense? I could actually feel that from my parents. So my anxiety as a child came from my parents' anxiety. And the same is true with us, that we don't know we're transmitting that.

And we continue to. So when I talk to Black people, I say, now here's what I've learned, not just as a clinician, but what I've learned is I say, when my grandkids came along, I only had one rule. I taught my kids sign language, actually. When my kids were little, I'd teach them sign language so I didn't have to yell at them. And of course, you know what they would do? They'd go. They just turn their head, right?

So my rule with my grandchildren is always, I just need to be able to see you. That's our rule. I just need to be able to see you. But if you look at the reasons for the behavior, I'm not mad at my people. I understand. But what used to make sense is now hindering us. Children don't need to feel shame, fear, and anxiety around being little kids. And we don't know why we're doing it anymore because we're not having these conversations.

We're just doing what Big Mama told us, you know, but what happened to Big Mama, right? And maybe part of what Big Mama was doing was taking care of something that existed then that doesn't exist now. And so something as simple, I'll give you the last one then I really do have to go. But my daughter, I grew up, my family's from Louisiana

and I can remember there were a couple of things you could not do. My mother, she would cut you a solid scientific zero. If you drove up to my house and blew the horn, oh my God, you don't blow the horn for nobody up in the house. And least of all, my mother's daughters daughters you do not blow the horn so i would always tell people okay so when you come don't blow the horn okay no matter get yourself out the car but you know because we have cell phone but you don't hey you blow it's over it's done i ain't nobody going nowhere right um and the other thing you couldn't do is walk out the door eating.

Okay. So I, right. Right. So my mother would, if you got up and you were, you know, like eating a sandwich, she goes, sit down. What are you doing? You don't go out the door eating. What are you doing? Right. Right. So this is innocuous. I grew up with it. Don't know nothing about it. So when my kids got older, my daughter was, you know, in high school and she was walking out there. I said, what are you doing? She goes, what? I said, you don't walk out the door eating.

She said, why? I stopped and tried to think about it. You just don't do that. I just told her, you don't do that. And she goes, but why? She goes, people eat outside all the time. They have barbecues outside. People eat their lunch and they have cafe.

I said, just don't do it. Totally. I didn't know, right? And I tell that story and I tell it all the time because it's just one of those innocuous things. My parents are dead. I can't ask them, right? So one day I'm in Chicago giving a talk and I tell that story.

And there's a gentleman from Louisiana. He says, you know, how old would your mother be? So I told him how old my mother would be. He said, I'm the same age as your mother. He says, and I think I know why she told you that. She said, he said, I grew up, we grew up during segregation. And I literally now have the sign. I don't have it here, but I have the sign,

and it says, no colored seating. No colored seating. That means you could go into the restaurant, but you couldn't sit down and eat. You'd have to take your food out or stand and eat it. So he said, and maybe what your mother saw, each time she would see you walking out that door, is a reminder of where she what

she had to do and she's saying you don't have to do that anymore you can sit down you can sit down and eat and that's what i mean in terms of generational stuff some of it's innocuous it's not gonna hurt you but some of it can't because we've not examined why we did it in the first place. And some of it makes good sense. Some of it's not going to hurt you either way. But some of the things we've passed a lot are harmful. And they were built into our, quote, cultural behavior as a social determinant, really,

and into our behavior because of survival. It had to do with survival. But we've never had a conversation because every time we have a conversation about our history, people tell you to get over it. I dare you to tell Jewish people to get over their Holocaust. I dare you to even try to part your lips to form anything that remotely resembles them not acknowledging that history. Right. But they want us, oh, get over it. But I realize that the psychological injury but they want us I'll get over it but I realize that the psychological injury to white people is that we're a reminder to you of your barbarism constantly we're a reminder

and up and until we see this man with his his knee on the neck of a person who he never even once has an ounce of empathy for no empathy the thing that stood out so much about that is there was no not an ounce of his humanity he didn't see this man's humanity and that's what i think was created a visceral response around the world they said it was horrific to watch this man lose his life that way and that this, he put his hands in his pocket. He literally had his knee on his neck with his hand in his pocket. That's how much I'm not, I'm not even, I'll put my hand in my pocket and kneel on your neck.

And for whatever reason, what showed up was a level of barbaricness that you can't even wrap your head around. And so a person that has never seen that who's not, doesn't live in this skin goes, wow, they could feel the cruelty you see. And so what that does is changes the chemistry of folks that are going, Hey, look, you know, we're done. This is, I, you know,

it's a very, it's a very different experience than just a shot that ends in a moment as opposed to spending eight minutes on someone's neck and watching them slowly die. And watching them slowly die. Right. And then he's handcuffed. The man was handcuffed. He couldn't move. Right.

There was no need for that level of excessive force. And at the same time, you know, again, for us, we're going, hey, thank God somebody, somebody, some comedian said the best thing that came that was created for black people in the last 100 years has been a cell phone. The best thing that ever happened for us was a cell phone. Because these are not things, I mean, someone put a gun in my brother's mouth when he was a kid a teenager and as my younger brother begged the police not to pull the trigger he put it in his

mouth you know you don't get over something like that you know and then they go you know so the problem is that people say gosh you know they're just. And I think a lot of people who had those kind of really not only just deeply ignorant and, you know, miseducated, but have been so out of touch with feeling anything for anyone else. I've always been an empathetic person from kindergarten. First day of kindergarten, I gave my lunch away to the kid that didn't have anything to eat. I befriended the girl that they picked on. That's who I've always been. So empathy is big with me. And that's why I ended up writing the book. That's why I did the research because I love my people. We're the soul of the earth because even with hundreds of years of oppression and hostility and hatred and vitriol, we still rise. We still smile. We still have joy and hope. We're amazing. We're phenomenal people. And that's what folks know.

I love my people. Ain't nobody like us on the planet and everybody want to be us even though they're trying to hate us. I think that's a perfect place for us to wrap up. Thank you so much, Dr. Joy. I really, really appreciate you spending your time with us. My pleasure. All righty. We're going to take a quick break after that interview. When we come back, we're going to tell you white people that we know that are listening,

as well as some of you non-black folks, some things that you can do to be active in this moment. Welcome back to Fireside Chat on KMAX. With me in studio to take your calls is the dopest duo on the West Coast, Oliver Wong and Morgan Rhodes. Go ahead, caller. Hey, I'm looking for a music podcast that's insightful and thoughtful, but also helps me discover artists and albums that I've never heard of.

Yeah, man, sounds like you need to listen to Heat Rocks. Every week, myself and I'm Morgan Rhodes and my co-host here, Oliver Wong, talk to influential guests about a canonical album that has changed their lives. Guests like Moby, Open Mic Eagle, talk about albums by Prince, Jon Mic Eagle, Talk About Albums by Prince, Joni Mitchell, and so much more.

Yo, what's that show called again? Heat Rocks, deep dives into hot records. Every Thursday on Maximum Fun. Alright, welcome back. We've been having a conversation this entire episode about this moment, about our perspectives as black folks in this particular moment. And we often get a lot of emails from our listeners across races, but particularly from the white folks.

And we know that because y'all let us know that you white. And so with this part of the show, we want to give you all some things that you can do in this moment to be a part of change, to be on the good side of this history that is unfolding. And so first and foremost, you know, I want to shout out, you know, some organizations that you can donate to to put your money where your mouth is. A lot of white folks, they love to say that they, you know. You know what? Putting your money where you say your heart is. That too, right? A lot of people speak about being allies, about wanting to support the movement, about believing that black lives matter. And so if you are able, there are a number of organizations, a number of bail funds, right, that are happening across the country. In every single state,

there have been demonstrations. And there are a lot of bail funds that you can donate to. Before you move on away from the bail funds thing, just so people understand, like, I think the major reason that bail funds are important, because people don't seem to get it all the time, is that one of the major ways that we keep people incarcerated in this country is by this idea that if you have money, you can get out of jail. And that overwhelmingly affects black, brown, and poor people that go to jail and cannot get out because they don't have bail or people that go to jail and sit there waiting to be charged or prosecuted or otherwise. And the Kalief Browder story is a

very mixed one right it's not all just about bail but like it is about just sitting in jail for a long time for no apparent reason um other than the fact that you are a black man waiting in the system and so like the bail funds thing even if it's something that you're not really that familiar with it's really really important so go ahead sorry in terms of other organizations um in addition to bail funds that you can put some of your money towards, if you have it, which we know some of you got it. I want to shout out the Okra Project and Southerners on New Ground. It's at the Okra Project dot com and Southerners on New Ground dot org. These are two organizations that center and are led by Black, queer, and trans folks.

And, you know, one of the things that we've seen with a lot of these activations and demonstrations that are going is that the Black and brown, queer, and trans folks that have also lost their lives to various forms of violence, whether it's state-sanctioned and institutionalized or it's interpersonal, their names, their memories are being lost

in the conversation. And we want to make sure that we support and uplift those narratives in addition to kind of the predominant ones that are out there as well. So those are two organizations that you all can check out. One thing that I would love to point out that I've had a conversation with most of the Black people that I've spoken with this past week have been saying, like, I don't understand why white people keep asking me if I want to talk to them for the black folks out there. Like I hear you and I get it. And for the white folks, uh, and non-black the for mainly for the white folks out there, like, please stop asking your, your black friends to talk to you. Like, I don't understand

why white people think that black people are just longing to talk to them in this moment about what it feels like to go through this. So Black people, I hear you. Non-Black people, like, just take it easy. I think it's a really important thing because a lot of Black people are feeling a lot, going through a lot, and are really trying to process their emotions and understand what they're feeling and what to do with that. And I think it's really, really important to just, like, give us some space. So that is something that I think people should be doing. And with that giving of space, right, we also need to say that white people,

y'all need to educate yourselves. A lot of times in white folks or non-black folks, right, asking us how we are, it's because they want to learn something, right? And I think that can be very well-meaning, but the impact of it can be kind of have these deleterious effects on us. And so educate yourselves. Google is right there. Dr. Joy's work is right there. So there's so many entities out there that you can reach out to

that have already done the work, that have already done the research to educate you. And just to put a point on, this is one of the reasons why I get, you know, sometimes so upset with some of the emails that we get from folks. And, you know, I let you do the education because you're interested in doing the education. And sometimes I'm not. I mean, it's for this very reason. So do your own research. Find Google's literally right there. And so do your own research. Find Google's literally right there. And that is a way, I think, to to not put a burden on black folks who aren't interested in shouldering that responsibility.

I will say that this if you if anyone read the piece that I wrote in Revolt about the ways that these kinds of killings, it was about Ahmaud Arbery specifically. I was talking about how there are various moments throughout my life like this where I felt myself change or like I felt myself move in a different kind of way and this is definitely one of those moments I am I'm not fully disinterested in talking with white people about the ways that these things affect us but I'm a lot less interested than I was before because I'm tired I feel like it's not getting through. And I feel like if you are a black person who is being asked to do this work, or if you are a white person asking black people to do this work, I think it's really important that you are paying those people to do that work for you. Because I feel like if you are a white person that is asking a black person to come speak

on a panel, to come talk to your group, to come speak to your company, to come talk with your friends or whatever. We have a bit of a history in this country that I don't know if you're familiar with about white people expecting black people to work for free. And like, I say that sarcastically, but I also mean it very seriously. And like, that is like unpacking our trauma and reliving our experiences for your education is something that should at least come with compensation. So if you are a Black person that's being asked to do that work, do not hesitate to ask about being paid for it. And if you are a non-Black person asking Black people to do that work, you need to be paying them. Yes. And this brings me to, you know, I think another thing for those who are, you know, going out into the streets, who are going to the demonstrations.

There's this statement that I've heard thrown around a lot about like putting your body on the line. And I think it's important and something for like white folks to consider in particular, because you can see countless videos online of the ways in which I mean, Dr. Drew, Dr. Groy, I mean, butchering that woman's name, Dr. Joy DeGruy. You took two names and put them into what? Dr. Joy DeGruy. Dr. Joy DeGruy, she mentions that video of the officer telling the white woman, we don't kill black people, right? And part of that is about the ways in which white bodies aren't deemed a threat in the ways that black bodies are. And so if you are going to protest, if you are going to demonstrations, use your body as a barrier of sorts between, you know, police and the black and brown protesters that might be out there. You'll be surprised if you haven't witnessed it already, the ways in which police will treat protesters and treat groups

differently when they see your body out front as opposed to our bodies. And so I think that's another thing for people to consider in terms of showing up. I think another important thing, and it feels cliche to talk about voting because people are are always like vote, vote, vote, vote, vote. One thing that I would love for people to really stand and stand and take a moment to think about is black and brown and white people are around this country and every state in the union protesting right now asking for the government to treat black people as full human beings. That is all right. We're not asking for reparations right now. government to treat black people as full human beings. That is all right. We're not asking for reparations right now. We're not talking about how we need to do X, Y or Z.

We are just asking to be treated like human beings with some humanity. And like when we think about the importance of voting right now, like voting for a candidate like Donald Trump, I'm sorry, you are voting for anti blackness because Donald Trump came out and spoke in the Rose Garden or spoke at the White House on Monday. And rather than saying, hey, we hear you and we understand what you're going for and we see that this is wrong and we're going to work to do better. Rather than saying that, he said, I will roll the military out on your ass if you don't go sit down. And that is the message that is being sent to black and brown people across this country and across the world, because we people are around the world are looking at us and protesting around

the world as well. So the importance of your vote, if you are if you're one of those people who's like, I mean, I don't agree with him socially, but fiscally, fuck that. A full stop. Fuck that. If you are voting for Donald Trump, you are voting for anti-blackness. So it is important to make sure that you are registered. We just had elections on Tuesday in multiple states for the primary. If you are not participating in the primary, make sure that you're participating in the general when we're talking about Donald Trump and the candidates that go down the ballot, because when we're looking at candidates down the ballot, they're the ones that are hiring your police officers that are choosing

your district attorneys that are choosing the judges and all of those different people that make such a difference for you locally as well. So make sure that you're registered and make sure that you're ready to participate in the election in November. One of the things I always say is that like, if you don't want to vote in your best interest then you need to vote in my best interest okay because what we know from this last election if you say you're an ally if we saw in this last election right what is it 53 percent of white women voted for donald trump we're looking at you when you know we're looking at you karen that is not in your best interest as a white woman okay if you if you still feel that way, because you feel however you want to feel,

okay, if you still feel that way, don't vote in your best interest, vote in mine then, how about that, okay, a lot of folks have varying thoughts about voting and being, you know, politically engaged in this particular way, but I want to, I'm going to use a quote that Billy Porter recently said, and it's that you got to play the game that you're in. And the game that we are in is capitalist. The game that we are in is allegedly Democratic. And it's about allegedly voting and it's about being engaged in this way. So if we're going to play the game that we are in, that means you got to vote. And maybe you don't like Biden. Okay. Maybe you don't. Okay.

A lot of us don't, God damn it. Okay. But we're playing the game that we are in. Finally, amplify Black voices, whether you are Black, Brown, or white, or whatever, it is important to amplify the voices of Black people that are a part of the movement that are out here trying to fight for our freedom and fight for our equality and fight for our equity. So and I will say a lot of you have been sharing the show in your Insta stories and on Twitter and on Facebook, and we really, really appreciate it. And I think it's more important now than it's ever been to make sure that you are amplifying the voices of black people like Dr. Joy DeGruy, like this show and many others, and the people that you follow on Twitter and Instagram or wherever,

make sure that you are amplifying their voices because right now is a moment that it is more necessary than we've had it in our lifetime. And if you think that anything that we have listed here is too much or for whatever reason you are unable to engage in these particular ways, I'm just going to tell you to get out the fucking way. You can do a lot by getting out the fucking way as well and letting the people who are out in the streets, letting the people who are organizing, the people who are advocating, letting them do this much necessary work. You can help so much just by shutting up and letting them do the work. Absolutely. Speaking of amplifying voices

and getting out of the way, we're going to get out of the way. We thank you so much for listening to this extended episode of Fanta. We really appreciate you tuning in and giving us a little bit more time than you normally would. We ask that you jump onto iTunes or Apple Podcasts, leave us a five-star review, and leave us a comment. Let us know what you like about the show

and that helps other people to be able to find the show, especially when we're talking about amplifying Black voices. And for more information on Dr. Joy DeGruy, you can go to her website, joydegruy.com. That's J-O-Y-D-E-G-R-U-Y.com. And you can find out more about wellness Wednesdays on her Facebook page. That's joy to grew publications on Facebook. And as always, you can tweet at us at Fanti podcast or leave a comment or DM us on Instagram at Fanti podcast as well, or email us at Fanti at maximum fun.org.

We want to thank the creatives that helped make this show fantastic. Corice who composed our music. You can find him wherever you find your Slayworthy audio. That is cor.ece and Ashley Nguyen who did our photo and our graphics and helped us put together the cool parts of the videos

that you see on our Instagram and Twitter. Our producers this week are Laura Swisher. Sorry, I'm a little bit lost. that you see on our Instagram and Twitter. Our producers this week are Laura Swisher. Oh, sorry. I'm a little bit lost. Wait, here we go. Are you ready? Are you ready, Chavelle?

Are you ready? Laura Swisher! And Jordan Keller! This is a production of Maximum Fun MaximumFun.org comedy and culture artist owned audience supported