Wonderful! - Wonderful! Ep. 43: Davey Coolstool’s Math Poetry

Episode Date: July 18, 2018

Rachel’s favorite poem-poem! Griffin’s favorite feeling about favorites! Rachel’s favorite fictional high school character! Griffin’s favorite formative tabletop game! Music: "Money Won't Pay" by bo en and Augustus - https://open.spotify.com/album/7n6zRzTrGPIHt0kRvmWoya MaxFunDrive ends on March 29, 2024! Support our show now by becoming a member at maximumfun.org/join.

Hi, this is Rachel McElroy. Hey, this is Griffin McElroy. And this is wonderful. Oh, I'll be honest, this is our second attempt to record the intro. I just put up a big brick. A real air ball, as they say in podcasting. Sometimes I feel like it's my fault. Because if I were on your level, I could stay there with you.

No, I think you're way above my level at this point. And I try to sort of assert my level. But I said something about like, we're doing Hollywood gossip. And I was like, Joe Pesci. And I talked about how you robbed a zoo. And none of it was even like even remotely funny was the problem it was like funny and that sort of like usually joe pesci slam dunk you know yeah usually you just say joe pesci's name and it's kind of a fun name yeah pesci pesci pesci but not fun to come up with a joke about because i i failed you and i failed the. And I guess this press conference is just me saying I'm sorry.

Oh, Griffin, I have a question. Yeah, go ahead. Rachel McElroy. Hollywood Reporter. Oh, I didn't know. I thought you worked at a community college. Well, this is the Hollywood Gossip, and so I'm here from Hollywood Reporter. They just, you're freelancing for them?

To get the Hollywood Gossip. Oh, okay. I'm in the fiction. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Right now. Okay. Oh, sorry, I didn're freelancing for them? To get the Hollywood Gossip. Oh, okay. I'm in the fiction. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Right now. Okay. Oh, sorry, I didn't know. Okay, I'll get the fiction with you.

My question is. Hey, old m'lady. Would you like to see one of my spells? I'm in the fiction. Okay. I'm in the fiction. I'm a sorcerer. I know that your expertise is in wizardry, Griffin.

Yes. But you also know Hollywood Gossip, which wizardry, Griffin. Yes. But you also know Hollywood Gossip, which I appreciate about you. For sure. So I'm wondering if you could tell us anything. Oh, the scoundrel Joseph Pesci? I have heard a tidbit about him. I have heard that he is in the new Harry Potter. So first off, they're making a new Harry Potter.

Yes. And this one, it's a grown-up origin story it's sort of an adult prequel and joe pesci's in it and he's playing hogwarts he's playing the whole he's playing the whole castle uh and i'm in it as the wizard king oh you're in it yes glubius and i'm in it and i rule the school which again is played by is played by Joe Pesci. He does great. He's got paintings hanging on him and a little stairwell that moves around and a dead girl in a bathtub ghost. Kind of a Gulliver's Travels a little bit?

Sort of a Gulliver's Travels, yes. I like it. Yes. Okay, that was all right. That one's all right. You want to do it again now? No. Do you have any small wonders?

I do. Oh, good. Mine might be the same as yours. Okay. Monkey bread. Monkey bread. Griffin made monkey bread. Did you eat it again today?

I just did before we came up here. Fuck yeah. I thought I saw you nibbling on that monkey bread. Monkey bread is biscuits with cinnamon sugar on them. And then you put those in a Bundt cake pan. Sometimes there's raisins and walnuts. Well, you put some raisins and walnuts. Rachel splurged for golden raisins.

I did. Why go regular when there for golden raisins. I did. Mmm. I go regular when there's golden. Sure. And you put some brown sugar and butter into a pan, and then you drip that all over, and you bake it for a bit. And holy shit, it's really good. Also, it was like three biscuit containers worth of dough in there, so we're going to

be eating that for a while. Well, you are, because I'm leaving tomorrow. Damn. Monkey Bread's really good. This beer is really good. We've been drinking this new Dogfish Head beer and it's, what's it called? Sea Quench Ale Session Sour.

I feel like a complete fraud whenever I talk about beer because I don't really drink that much of it. It's salty. Yeah, it's got lime juice, lime peel, black limes, and sea salt. I don't know what a black lime is, but it tastes really good in this brewski. Yeah. You start this week, according to Wonderful.FYI. I know I do.

What you got? I would like to return to the poetry corner. Hey! Will you sing my theme music? Yeah. Hey, baby, get on to the bus bus we're going to the poetry corner the bus has no seats seat belts it's just some stools it's not street legal but that's okay the poetry corner ain't far oh man i should ask for the abridged version which is just the poetry corner ain't far

yeah but i like sort of the imagery of like a bus but instead of chairs there's like nice poet stools I should ask for the abridged version, which is just the poetry corner ain't far. Yeah. But I like sort of the imagery of like a bus, but instead of chairs, there's like nice poet stools. Did I make that up? Like the mystery machine, but for poets? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I bet if you look in like a pottery barn catalog, you can buy a quote poet stool. What's your poem this time? The poem is called Thank You for Saying Thank You by Charles Bernstein. Oh,

the name is familiar. There's a lot of Bernsteins in the world. That is fair. That's probably how you know him. Thank You for Saying Thank You? Yes. Okay. It's a really great poem. I'm excited by how excited you are about it. Charles Bernstein is a professor at the University of Pennsylvania. Charles Bernstein is a professor at the University of Pennsylvania He's written more than 15 books of poems Go Cougars Is that right? I have no fucking idea Come on, baby Earlier I wanted to talk about the World Cup

And Griffin told me that talking about sports When you don't know about sports is played This isn't sports It's a school's general mascot Oh, is that still okay? Yeah, yeah Okay This isn't sports. It's a school's general mascot. Oh, is that still okay? Yeah, yeah. Okay. He was one of the originators of, quote, language poetry.

That's not all poetry. Well, it became a thing in the 60s and 70s because it emphasizes the reader's role in bringing meaning out of work. It played down expressions, seeing the poem as a construction in and of language itself. Now, see, I preferred the works of Davy Coolstool, who came up with math poetry. Have you heard about this? I would love to hear about this. He has one that's like eight times eight and a sixty-four. Wait, hold on, Griffin.

I didn't get to do your Poetry Corner theme song. Oh, sure. Go ahead. We got stanzas, we got stanzas. We got rhyming pentameter. It's the Poetry Corner with Griffin. So anyway, Davy Coolstall wrote this real jazzy poem, and it's called, I'm sort of conflating jazz and poetry in my mind for this whole aesthetic of this segment.

That's fine. But it's like 8 times 8 is 64. 12 times 7 is... Times eight is 64. 12 times seven is... 84, I think. And nine times... So, Ling, what's...

Uh-huh. Let's get back in the real poetry corner. So this is a poem I actually got to hear him read in person he came to University of Chicago when I was there and performed this poem I'm charmed by it I'm very excited again you're not in the studio listening at home

Rachel is beaming she is bouncing with anticipation I'm so psyched I'm going to have my mind blown. I had to sit through your whole math cool stool while I was waiting. Davey cool stool. Okay. He did math poetry. Yes. All right. I'm starting the poem now. And I'm saying that because it's going to start and you're not going to believe that it started. Okay. Hold on. But is this the poem? I'm starting now. This is a totally accessible poem.

There is nothing in this poem that is in any way difficult to understand. All the words are simple and to the point. There are no new concepts, no theories, no ideas to confuse you. This poem has no intellectual pretensions. It is purely emotional. It fully expresses the feelings of the author, my feelings, the person speaking to you now. It is all about communication, heart to heart. This poem appreciates and values you as a reader.

It celebrates the triumph of human imagination amidst pitfalls and calamities. This poem has 90 lines, 269 words, and more syllables than I have time to count. Each line, word, and syllable have been chosen to convey only the intended meaning and nothing more. This poem objures obscurity and enigma. There is nothing hidden. A hundred readers would each read the poem in an identical manner and derive the same message from it. This poem, like all good poems, tells a story in a direct style that never leaves the reader guessing. While at times expressing bitterness, anger, resentment, xenophobia, and hints of racism, its ultimate mood is affirmative. It finds joy even in those spiteful moments of life that it shares with you.

This poem represents the hope for a poetry that doesn't turn its back on the audience. It doesn't think it's better than the reader that is committed to poetry as a popular form like kite flying and fly fishing. This poem belongs to no school, has no dogma. It follows no fashion. It says just what it says. It's real. Did something happen? Did something happen to him to make him write this poem?

I mean, so here's, he became a language poet because him and his friend started a magazine called Language, where they published a lot of poetry and basically started this whole movement. And we're always kind of resistant to being part of a movement. Language poetry, as a reminder, emphasizes the reader's role in bringing meaning out of work. It plays down expression, seeing the poem as a construction in and of language itself. That seems like a really tricky needle to thread without writing a poem explicitly like this. I find this approach kind of charming.

It's like super obviously self-referential. Sure. But it also kind of addresses any potential criticism he might ever get. Right. Which I think is kind of incredible. What I'm saying is like, was it born out of that criticism?

Because so much of that sounded so shit-eating grin. So he's like an academic. He studied philosophy in school. He does a lot of translation. His approach to poetry and teaching is very scholarly. So probably no stranger to literary criticism. Yeah. So I'm not exactly sure if he wrote this after he entered academia, but a lot of his poems are very tongue-in-cheek. So I really like this poem. It was really charming to see him read it

because I had been going to readings every month, I would say, while I was in graduate school and seeing a lot of very heavy-handed, dense, very abstract poems. And I just felt so delighted to sit here and have this guy kind of guide me through his poem in this way that was very much like, Hey, we're all doing something a little silly here right now.

I can't imagine being the kind of poet who would do the other thing of, and I'm not, I'm not saying it's without, you know, virtue or whatever. It happens though. Yeah. It happens.

It definitely happened to me. Like you're, you're reading all of these like very scholarly texts and you're around all these people that are very intellectual and you just feel this pressure to be more and more indirect with what you're trying to do. And I think a lot of people would say this as musicians or as visual artists or photographers, like you start to feel this external pressure of like everything has to be under a veil. like you start to feel this external pressure of like everything has to be under a veil, you know, and if somebody gets my context right away, then I'm not doing anything particularly mysterious or talented. And so I really appreciate this poem, especially as it goes on. And he says the line, 100 readers would each read the poem in an identical manner and

derive the same message from it yeah that was very good that's a very good poem yeah i thought i would share that i've liked every poem you've brought this really has been a you got great taste but like i didn't like many poems i liked like the um that one e cummings one that was all right and then like shill silverstein oh yeah i guess that was kind of my i mean that's that was my jumping off point into poetry but now i like so much more because of this great segment on this fun podcast we do together as lovers um do you want to know my first thing yes so um we watched a quiet place for the first time a couple of nights ago. Yeah. And it fucking rules.

It's a very good movie. It's extremely scary. And as the parent of a young child, it was especially kind of scary, because there's a pretty substantial amount of child endangerment in that flick. But it was fucking great. It was a really, really good movie. And I thought, like, oh, I could bring that. But then I had this idea. It sort of made me realize, like, a bigger picture thing that I think is wonderful. And it's something that

happened to me while I was watching that movie. And that is discovering a new favorite thing, not just seeing a good thing and knowing like, oh, this is really good, but discovering something and knowing that it is meaningful to you. And it is very good. And you know that you are going to return to it at some point in the future this idea i did too and this happened to me with a quiet place because the whole time i was watching this it was i had this like mounting excitement of like i think this is going to be one of my new favorite things um and it helps it like it's a pretty thrilling movie from like front to back like uh i was enraptured by it pretty much the whole time.

This happens to me with like any kind of creative work, right? Like I've read books, and like, I'll be a few chapters in and be like, Oh, this is gonna be one of my favorite books, or I played a game and you know, halfway through, I'm like, Okay, I'm very excited, because it's gonna be one of my new favorite games. I feel like it happens to me with movies a lot with horror movies, which like, I don't even think I'm a super big fan of. Maybe it's just I'm so thrilled and enraptured by them the whole time that, like, I kind of have to pay it to end. So I get that mixed up emotion of, like, this is really good and I like it.

And also I'm really scared of it. Horror movies kind of challenge you pretty quickly in the movie. Sure you do. And I think there's something about that that really draws you in fast. Yeah, you're putting, maybe I just like horror movies more than i think but like they put you in this like heightened state for 90 minutes and that sort of i don't know makes you feel this attachment to it but like when i think back i was trying to think of like movies this has happened to me recently with and like a quiet place uh get out i remember seeing that in theaters and being like

first of all like this movie is so fucking great and i'm so happy that jordan peele made a fucking killer awesome badass movie but also like oh shit like i'm gonna watch this movie again a lot because it's really really good uh it follows it follows yeah uh i actually i'm legit too scared to go back to that one uh cabin in the woods like i've watched that a few times now the thing the original the thing with kurt russell i watched that for the first time and i was like this is one of the best fucking movies i've ever seen i'm gonna watch this so much and i have yeah also i noticed like all the horror movies you mentioned kind of deal in world creation which i know is something that's really interesting oh for sure of like not always science fiction but this idea of like you have to kind of enter this universe where certain things are true.

And I know that's something you like. To do a brief aside on A Quiet Place and talk about why I liked it so much is because it is, like you said, it's a movie that does world creation. And it does that by doing one of my favorite things in any movie, especially in a horror movie, which is establishing rules,

right? So this is how the monster works in, in, you know, Nightmare on Nightmare Before Elm Street. Freddy Krueger only gets you if you fall asleep. There are rules to it. There are rules of engagement.

And in A Quiet Place, it tells you what the rules are. It tells you how you're going to get got by the monsters if you make too much sound. And it sort of builds on this exposition just like showing a newspaper clipping or showing some stuff on a whiteboard like showing you the rules of the world and then once you know all the rules now it's time for the movie to start i fucking love that and yeah it does it really well anyway that's a brief aside it's a really really great movie um but like music too i i hear an album and every track resonates with me and i'm like like, I think it's especially meaningful for music because it's really easy to listen to music no matter where you are. And I do it every day a lot.

And so when I hear like Carly Rae Jepsen's Emotion for the first time and every track is really good, I feel like it's almost like a goof that how much I like that album. But I have listened to it so much because that first time, you know, you hear all the tracks together and you're like, wow, this is fucking great. That new snail mail album. I listened to that for the first time all the way through when you, you brought it to the show. And like,

I knew about pristine and heat wave and those songs are really good. And I listened to it all the way through. And the whole time I was listening to it, I just couldn't shake the feeling. Like I'm going to listen to this a lot. This is one of my new favorites. And, and games too.

And, and books like, I, I love this feeling and I want to be specific. I'm not to listen to this a lot. This is one of my new favorites. And games, too, and books. I love this feeling. And I want to be specific. I'm not talking about having a big catalog of favorite things. That's good. I'm talking about that moment of discovery of, oh, shit, this is going to go in the pantheon, right? It's like when you ate that pasta at Barley Swine. It's like when I ate, oh God, there's a restaurant in town called Barley Swine.

It is very nice. It's very expensive, but they have a pretty killer happy hour. And they have this like shiitake mushroom pasta where it's like basically pasta gushers filled with shiitake mushroom sauce. It's like ravioli with like this liquid center. Fuck me. It is my favorite thing I've ever eaten. I took one bite of it the first time rachel and i went there and i was like oh that's my uh the best bite of food i've ever had in my mouth in my whole life that's great um you can have it

with like anything but like i don't necessarily know if having a huge collection of favorite things is a good idea where you and i want to be clear like when you find one of these new things right and you have this moment of discovery and it's so exciting exciting uh i i think that's a kind of like future nostalgia where you're like oh boy i'm going to be nostalgic about this and enjoy it because it's one of my favorite things and i think that's very exciting in the moment but i think like blind nostalgia is not necessarily the best thing, especially if you don't, you know, occasionally let one of your favorite things go off the list when you rewatch it and you find that you've, like, outgrown it. I think that's a pretty serious problem. Obviously, like, it doesn't let you make way for new things to come into your life if you're always watching and indulging in sort of old things, but I also think that it can lead to, you know, not just personal, but

like cultural problems where you start to say like, well, this is a perfect relic of my past that can do no wrong. And what you're describing is like, is critical to being like an interesting old person. Sure. You know, like the, as you get older, it's so important to kind of continue to discover new things. Yeah. And be honest about the things that you do love that maybe you're not as into anymore.

But like all that aside, there is something really special about that moment where you discover a new favorite thing. Like it kind of makes the act of watching or listening to or reading or playing the thing that you are experiencing much, much larger than the moment of that first experience itself. Like it, it becomes a sort of like, checkpoint in the future where you know, like, I'm I can't wait to watch this again. I don't know where I'm gonna be. I don't know like, who I'm gonna be. I don't know what

I'm gonna be into then. But I know that I'm gonna want to rewatch this thing. And I think that moment is really nice. Yeah, that's great. Can I steal you away? that's great can i steal you away that was in like two nine time signature 14 beats per minute i was very into it thank you i'm really into this like noise punk that you bring this like noise punk genre this message is is for Tish Tosh Josh. It is from the Jewel Crabs. Thank you so much for the International Dungeoneers League. In just the first year of the campaign, you introduced us to Starcross Satyrs. Satyrs.

Satyrs. I think it's Satyrs. I actually don't know. It's like the Mr. Tumnus. Oh, yeah. No, I know what they are. I just don't know how to don't know. It's like the Mr. Tumnus. Oh, yeah. No, I know what they are. I just don't know how to say them. You're real familiar with Mr. Tumnus.

Oh, man. I don't even know what that means. Dreamboat. Okay. Let me just start this. Yeah, we'll take a fresh run. Just try not to get too much drool when you're thinking about Tumnus in there. Those furry legs.

Yeah, and the, you know, nude there. Those furry legs. Yeah, and the nude torso. Let's begin. Don't think about Mr. Tumnus. Let's go. I'm serious. They paid money for this message. Let's do it right. Don't ruin it by thinking about Mr. Tumnus.

In just the first year of the campaign, you introduced us to star-crossed satyrs, janitor deities, sweet baby bics, hooligan teen fire newts, too many goddamn mimics, and so much more. We can't wait to see where you take us next.

Much love, Moana, Breve, Grom, Fajona, and Niramor. And now you know the challenge of reading people's Dungeons & Dragons character names. Sometimes it's a challenge. I'm glad that there is such a large diversity of names out there. But sometimes they're a real tongue twister.

What's wrong? Are you thinking about Tumna still? No, I'm rethinking the way I pronounce all those. No, you did a good job. You just got to go with the first pass. Yeah, I know. You just got to commit. Yeah.

This next message is for Amanda. It is from Zach. Hey, Amanda. It's Zach. The animals asked next message is for Amanda. It is from Zach. Hey, Amanda. It's Zach. The animals asked me to submit this message. You are the best kitty slash dog mom around. Sorry about stealing your food, sanity, and ability to sleep. We are

monsters. Heap Z's and the scheme and the scheme schmup. P.S. I'm really looking forward to hearing the mackleroy's read the weird names you gave our pets yeah give me that one more time heap skis and the sheep z's and the shmish shmup shmish shmup s-c-h-m-e s-c-h-m-u-p shm-mup. Shmeesh-mup. They're just fucking cackling right now. They're ruffling so hard.

I love you. Moss, moss, moss. That's a sweet message. I'm sorry that they threw so many names at you in the shmeesh-mup. Well, it's part of the gig, you know? Griffin, I don't complain. That's one of my things. No, you wear it proudly.

Do you think you would have done a better job if you weren't... Thinking about Mr. Thomas? Quivering, yeah. He plays the little flute, too, doesn't he? Oh, he loves the flute, yeah. Beginning this summer, you can listen to new episodes of Inside Pop every other week for an even deeper dive inside the world of pop culture. Now we're still bringing you our brilliant insight, always on the nose opinions, and insidery inside information on the most interesting pop culture stories of the week. And we'll also have interviews with the pop culture professionals who create the culture

you crave. For example, we'll speak to casting directors about how they find the right talent for the right role. We'll talk to music supervisors about how they choose the music to create the right mood. And we'll grill producers who'll discuss what exactly a producer does. Oh man, Sean, how many times has someone said to you, oh, you're a producer, so what do you actually do? So many times. Same here. So make sure to catch Inside Pop every other Wednesday on Maximum Fun to indulge your pop culture obsessions. And to hear in-depth interviews from the movers and the shakers in TV, music, film, and more.

What's your second thing? My second thing is my favorite high school TV show heroine. And that is Lindsay Weir. Absolutely. So I bring this up because A&E has a show called Culture Shock. And I guess tonight, as we're recording, Monday, they're airing a Freaks and Geeks documentary.

I would love to fucking watch that. I know. Culture Shock, I guess, is a whole show. It's a docuseries that talks all about pop culture, impactful things. Sure. So Freaks and Ge culture, impactful things. Sure. So, Freaks and Geeks. Incredible show. Just aired from 1999 to 2000. One season, 18 episodes.

Averaged under 7 million viewers while it was on the air. And this is in the era of shows like Frasier and Friends that were averaging over 14 million viewers. Not as good. No. One might say half as much. I was reading it and the show was up against Who Wants to Be a Millionaire. Oh, fuck me. Which if you remember back then was like hot stuff.

I watched that every episode. Uh-huh. Damn it. Could have been watching Freaks and Geeks. Oh, I did not watch Freaks and Geeks until I was like in college. So, I was thinking about a lot of high school shows that I love, like My So-Called Life and The O.C. and Front End Lights and Dawson's Creek. I'm so glad O.C. made the list.

Here's the thing, though. Yeah? All very, very attractive people living lives that I couldn't exactly relate to. Sure. I mean, you were kind of a Ryan, you know? Wrong side of the tracks. Oh, yeah, clearly. Sort of.

Just always getting in scuffles. Yeah, always, you know, punching the rich boys. Yeah. Here's the rich boys. Yeah. Here's the thing about Freaks and Geeks. Just actual kids, like actual teenagers that seemed like real people. Sure. And did real things and episodes were about real life stuff. I think it does such a good job of being relatable to the two categories of people that are in the title of the show, even though it takes place in the 70s, right?

80s. Early 80s. 80s, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So in the show, Freaks and Geeks, as we mentioned, the geeks are kind of like the, I don't want to say nerdy, more dorky than nerdy, because they're not like superstar scholars or anything. No. They're just really interested in these very niche things.

Is that what you think the differentiation between a nerd and a dork is? Okay. I think a nerd is somebody who does really well academically, and a dork is somebody that's just really into very niche, underground things. I've never given it thought before. I have. Okay. The thing I like about Lindsay Weir, obviously I've mentioned

on the show before, I'm a big fan of my so-called life. Sure. But Angela Chase was gorgeous and got to date Jordan Catalano and got to like have these super exciting friends and do all these super cool things. Lindsay Weir is just like, she's a smart kid who like feels kind of disenchanted and she's kind of exploring what else is out there and kind kid who like feels kind of disenchanted and she's kind of exploring what else is out there and kind of hanging with these kind of trouble traditionally like troublemaker kids uh and figuring out you know what's important to her and what she's going to stand for uh in this very relatable way for sure the catalyst for her like sort of self exploration and trying to like fit in with this new group and redefine herself is that her

grandmother dies and that's like the first episode is her sort of coming to come into grips with that and explaining like this is why i'm you know changing and holy shit is that relatable that's the most relatable yeah she's kind of like well and also she gets a crush on daniel desario who's played by james franco uh and so she's kind of drawn to that group of folks because he's part of it. But this show, I mean, I feel like most people know about it, but there are just a tremendous number of people who went on to have these incredible careers.

Sure. Like Seth Rogen and James Franco, as I mentioned. Linda Cardellini, who plays this role. Jason Segel is in it. Busy Phillips. Yeah. Busy Phillips is so fucking good in this show. So good.

She plays Kim Kelly. And there's a whole episode about Lindsay getting invited to dinner at her house. God, that episode fucking rules. It's so good. She's like, Kim is trying to impress her parents because her parents think that she's a loser and so they want to like see some sign that she is like not a troublemaker and so she invites Lindsay over because Lindsay's this like superstar like student and um they make up this elaborate story about Lindsay's family going to Benton Harbor. And they ask her all these questions,

and it becomes very clear that Lindsay is making it up. And then they literally have to run out of the house and jump in the car and drive away. But it's just like, there are episodes that are just like, just like, so Lindsay, at a certain point is dating this guy, Nick, who's played by Jason Segel. And he is a drummer. And he is interested in being a musician. And she just kind of assumes that he's really good because he's so committed to it and passionate about it. And so she really pushes to be supportive to get him and his friends to practice more

and become a really good band. And then she very quickly realizes, oh, this band is not good.. And then she very quickly realizes like, oh, this band is not good. Yeah. And so then she encourages him by getting him an audition to be in this band that he loves.

It's like local band. And he just totally bombs it. And it's just like the stakes feel so reasonable and so relatable. And, and Lindsay is just this character. I mean, Linda Cardinelli is of course also very gorgeous i think it's cardellini cardellini is it c-a-r-d-e-l-l-i-n-i i looked at myself okay uh i've also always said it wrong um the actress that plays lindsey is obviously like also very gorgeous much much like Claire Danes.

But it feels like the show's not about that, you know, it's about like her figuring out kind of where she should take a stand and what kind of person she's going to be. And there's moments in the show where she kind of feels uncomfortable with this new kind of rebellious group and tries to return to this mathlete life that she had prior. And she feels like she can't fit in there anymore either. And you just kind of watch her struggle. And that struggle just feels so right on to me. It is the most realistic coming of age TV show I've ever seen. Yeah. I think it's still on Netflix and if

you haven't watched it, I would really really encourage it because it is so sweet and honest and I just like as a female watching a high school show, it's very rare that you get the lead as somebody who is not just worried about losing her virginity.

Or, you know, like getting, you know, a date to the dance. Like, she's grappling with these kind of very real decisions about who she's going to be. And it just felt so true to me. Yeah. And I'm a huge fan. It's really good. Go watch it on Netflix. You will tragically finish it very fast.

It did not make it very long. Can I tell you about my second thing? Yes. Do you know my favorite episode of Freaks and Geeks? The Dungeons and Dragons one? Yeah. So I want to talk about Dungeons and Dragons as my second thing, because our graphic novel for the Adventure Zone balance,

like first arc, Here There Be Girl Wounds, comes out tomorrow at the time that we're recording this, which is fucking wild. Just Tuesday. We worked on that for a while. And it got me thinking about like the origin days of that show. Yeah, you never talked about that on the show. Yeah. And so I went back and listened to the beginning of the pilot episode.

Really? And I was appalled. Oh, the audio quality is so fucking bad. And we cussed so much. Anyway, so other than that episode of Freaks and Geeks, my exposure to D&D was very limited. I started listening to a D&D podcast that was done by the Penny Arcade guys and a couple other folks when I was living in Cincinnati. So this was like 2009. And I was like, kind of interested in trying it because the

podcast made the game seem really accessible and really fun. And so I found a group on like the message boards for a local game shop. Now when I say local, I mean like a 40 minute drive from my house. So it was quite the commitment to make my weekly sessions with them. And I with that group like five or six times this is when you were in cincinnati this is when i was in cincinnati this is my first exposure i played a dragonborn paladin and uh i don't remember anything else about my character because it was eight years ago um and then there was this long drive spell until fifth edition came out and that was the rule set that we played in uh the the adventure the first arc. And I just wanted to play it. And so we went out and recorded the first episode.

It was just supposed to go up on My Brother, My Brother and Me as an episode during Justin's paternity leave. And then it turned into the podcast. And the podcast is something that I cherish very, very much. That first campaign was the creative work I like most proud of in my life. The thing I've worked the hardest on in my whole life. Can you explain what a campaign is? Yeah. It's a story.

It is a story with the same characters that dad and Justin and Travis play the whole time. It like lasted for years. Lasted for three and a half years, 69 episodes. Nice. And so I want to talk about D dnd not so much talking about the book but go buy it please what i appreciate about dnd now is how flexible it is and that's something

that kind of scared me off of it because i was in theater growing up like my whole life and i definitely had a lot of friends who were who were playing usually my uh brother's friends who were like older than me, I saw playing. And I would, you know, look in their player's handbook, and I would just see all these like tables full of numbers and rules and all this stuff. And I would say like, this seems like accounting, I am not interested in it. It seems so rigid. And it seemed like a lot of memorization, and it didn't seem very fun. That's the way I feel about it now.

But it isn't because it is actually a very, very flexible game, which is to say like different groups play it in different ways. There are also sort of resources to help you out with like the rules and stuff. Some online resources and some like apps and stuff. Or you can get a friend to help you out. But what I love is how flexible it is because you can play it in all these different ways. There are people who do it in this high fantasy style with characters with very, very long names. And everybody talks in accents and weave these rich tapestries of lore spanning centuries in their world that they've created together. And then there's groups who just kind of treat it like an improv party game.

And I think we probably landed somewhere in the middle for a podcast. And then there's some folks who like it's just about having like fun interactions with your friends. And then there's some groups that's all about like the game and playing the game well and like getting new loot and getting stronger. There's all these different ways to play it. There's no one sort of static way to play it. And I've played it a couple times now, sometimes as a player, sometimes as the DM or the dungeon master. And I just think the whole experience of playing D&D, and really any RPG, I know I'm being very myopic right now, we're playing other RPGs on Adventure Zone now, but I wanted to specifically talk about D&D. It is fun in a way that nothing else I've ever done is.

Because it is kind of like an unreproducible thing. It's so many things altogether. It is communal improv, probably with people who don't do that very often. It is a game with rules. very often. It is a game with rules. It is a story that one person has tried to create that will then be modified by other people and then further modified by the random element of dice rolls according to the rules. It is all of these different, very, very strange things that when it all comes together, there is no other experience like it that I know of maybe LARPing, but I've never really dipped my toe in that water. That's for me, kind of the final frontier.

And I think like, I did stigmatize it like growing up because I couldn't imagine like the leap you would have to make out of your comfort zone to say, to embody this character that you have created in front of your in front of your friends like stand in front of people and say like i am a dwarf right and that is that's the bit that's it right like that's the big thing and i saw my my friends in theater uh doing do you playing dnd like between scenes when they weren't uh when they weren't on stage um which by the way the distinction there i now realize is nothing the distinction there is non-existent between saying like i'm playing a dragonborn paladin named you know steve yeah what would the character say in

this moment versus like exactly what being well i'm playing templeton the rat in charlotte's web um it's the same thing uh but i wrote it off as like the nerdiest imaginable thing you can do because i could not imagine that sort of allowing yourself to be exposed which i realize is a sort of cruel read of the situation and also i would have that thought and then i would go fucking play the pokemon trading card game or something so where the fuck do i get off? But there's something about making yourself vulnerable to do exactly that, to say, I made this character. Here's what I think they'd say. Here's how I think they'd say it.

Here's what I think they would do. You have to make yourself very vulnerable to do that. That blows me away. I think about that a lot. The challenge in theater and in Dungeons and Dragons and anything where you are creating a character and you are committing to it, like that is so like fearless to me. I can't imagine it, like doing it. It is scary.

Yeah. Whenever I was like a player on Adventure Zone, like I was scared like the whole time. I was also very, very scared as DM that like something would go horribly wrong and I wouldn't know how to react to it. time. I was also very, very scared as DM that like something would go horribly wrong and I wouldn't know how to react to it. But as a player, like you were scared because you have to lose that fraction of yourself that wants to take 10 seconds to figure out the way to respond and just kind of go with it. And so to do that, you have to make yourself really vulnerable, right? And in a way, that makes when it goes well, so much better. That's a good point.

When you make yourself vulnerable by uh embodying this character you made up and going out on a limb and having it pay off whether it's like a cool heroic moment in the story or like a good character interaction with one of the other players or like a cool moment of character development um anything that like anybody in the rest of the group actually like appreciates it feels so fucking satisfying because of the risk that you took to do it and i think that's another really really cool thing about this that you don't really get for other stuff yeah because i think about like character voices and costumes and everything and i just you do not have to do that oh gosh that doesn't seem pleasant to me no but but you know you're committing to something and if you're

sharing that with other people there's a lot of reward in that. Yeah, for sure. I've also mentioned, like, embodying the character you make up. I also just think, like, making characters in D&D is actually very fucking cool. Of course. I know I would, like, look at the book when I was younger and be like, that's too many rules. And now I look at it and I'm like, that's just enough rules. I enjoy all the rules in there.

Because it's, like, really cool, both from a mechanical standpoint of standpoint of saying like what kind of hero would i want to be right would i want to be able to like do magic and be a sorcerer or a warlock or would i rather be like kind of a sneaky rogue or uh you know a ranger would i rather be a big like plate mail wearing fighter uh and then figuring all that stuff out and then picking like these increasingly minute details of like what skills am i good at what kind of stuff do i have um and then figuring out like what kind of person you are and what your backstory is like all that shit really resonates with me and doing it for d i love that shit in video games but doing it for dnd and knowing like you're gonna have to be this person it makes it a lot more sort of high stakes and a lot more sort of rewarding when you come up with something good. I probably made like four or five characters for the episode, like two episodes of Adventure Zone Nights that

Travis actually DM'd and I got to play in and I like just picked the one that I thought was the best, but I was just thinking of all these different possibilities and I just love that process a lot. Have you thought about, you've listened to Adventure Zone, have you thought about what your character would be? No. Let's get into it. Okay. Well, so here's the thing. I feel like you have to pick a character that feels like one that you could embody.

For sure. You know? Like, I always think about that when I listen to your show, of like, why did Travis pick that character? Why did Justin pick that character? about that when I listened to your show of like, why did Travis pick that character? Why did Justin pick that character? Like, what did they think about that character that they thought that they could more easily inhabit? So my character would have to be, I think, very practical.

Okay. You know, like very much of a puzzler, like a, let's think about all sides of this. You know. High intellect. Stat. Well high intellect stat well say that about yourself say i have high intellect no i won't be doing that okay i'm from the midwest griffin will do that um i don't see myself i don't know what special power i would have though like if i were in a fight what would my advantage don't? Well, don't think about that. Let's think about your other traits. Do you think you'd be explorer? Do you think you'd be kind of hermetic? Oh, geez. I mean, see, here's the thing. Like, I'm obviously very curious, but I'm also not especially brave. So I would be interested in finding out information,

but not if it put me in peril. Interesting. I mean, I think a wizard would be interested in finding out information, but not if it put me in peril. Interesting. I mean, I think a wizard would be good. I know it's kind of obvious, but I think a wizard would be pretty good. Maybe a bard. I don't think there's a bard for poetry. I think you have to play an instrument in the game. But like, if you wanted to play with me sometime, I can figure out like, you just have like a notebook or like a special hat or a stool that you sit on and the magic comes out of

you in the middle of battle um but anyway i think you'll be a wizard what about you griffin i mean i've made characters before it's not exciting well who is your favorite character to play in the first arc uh like npc that i embodied oh shoot um you gotta think about the stuff for the book tour that's a good point. I mean, Angus was always very fun. There's a young boy named Angus McDonald. I love Angus. I've gotten to do some VO stuff since the show came out, and a lot of it has not come out yet.

And basically every time I would get in there, I would do Angus, basically. It's sort of deep in my bones at this point. But yeah, Angus is a good one. Let's wrap up. I know that seemed a little self-serving, because I did talk about Adventures in a Lot, but I guess I was getting nostalgic for D&D, because we don't play it anymore,

and I think it is just a really, really great game, and it's a lot of fun. And 5th edition, you don't even need a group of local people playing together. Like, I could, I mean, we do it over fucking Skype. Like, you could do this in Discord. You can do this in, you know, any sort of software that connects you to other people that you choose. Gchat.

Probably, maybe Gchat. I don't know. But, yeah, it's a lot of fun. And I would encourage you to take the leap and, like, try playing it. Because I know it is kind of scary, you know, making up a character and then pretending to be them. But like when it pays off, it pays off in a way that kind of nothing else really ever has for me before. So with that said, can I tell you what other people are into? Yes.

I want to tell you about Chris who says, I love that video of the zookeeper trying to clean the leaves in a panda enclosure. But the baby pandas just want to hop in the leaf buckets and play. It's so cute. I watch it every time I'm down. It never fails to bring my mood up. It's delightful. I've seen a few of these videos. I don't know exactly which one this is, but like the ones where the pandas are like grabbing

onto the ankles of the people as you're trying to clean and they kind of tumble and roll. Panda might be a best animal. Whoa. Yeah. That's be a best animal. Whoa. Yeah. That's another episode right there. Maybe, but I mean, all my favorite viral videos have pandas in them.

The panda sneezing is still so good. It's 2018, the panda sneezing and scaring the bigger panda. What about the wombat, Griffin? Have you moved on? I love the wombat, but wombat's a very practical thing. I don't even know if I love the wombat

more than the capybara. They're very similar. Anyway, this is nothing. Sarah says, my wonderful thing is that I live in an apartment, and my next-door neighbor plays piano so beautifully. Sometimes when I can hear them playing, I turn off the TV and sit next to the wall I share with their apartment so I can hear their music better. It makes me feel a little creepy, but I like to think they would be flattered.

Oh, that's nice. That is nice. Have you ever had this? Well, my grandpa like to think they would be flattered. Oh, that's nice. That is nice. Have you ever had this? Well, my grandpa used to play the trombone every single day. He would practice for a long time every day. And whenever I stayed over at my grandparents' house, he would play, and it was wonderful. Oh, I bet that was nice. Yeah.

In the house I grew up in, when I was living there my first year of college, my neighbor's kids joined a band class, and they played the trombone quite a bit, quite a bit, quite a bit, quite a bit, quite a lot of trombone. Well, Travis played the trombone too, didn't he? Yeah, but not very diligently. Not as much as this new sort of legend of the trombone that was my neighbor. But you know what? It didn't bother me because I knew they were learning about the arts.

And when the saints go marching in. Oh, don't. You said the song that they definitely did nonstop. Everybody does. Okay. Savannah says, something that is endlessly wonderful to me is the method of eating Tim Tam cookies called the Tim Tam Slam. Did I show you the Tim Tam Slam?

Do you know what a Tim Tam is? We have had this conversation before, but I do not remember the Tim Tam Slam? Do you know what a Tim Tam is? We have had this conversation before, but I do not remember the Tim Tam Slam. Not only is it the ideal way to consume a hot beverage and a gooey chocolatey cookie at the same time, it is the slightly ridiculous monitor delights the hell out of me. So Tim Tam is a wafer cookie, and it's completely enclosed in chocolate. Tim Tam Slam, you bite off both ends of the wafer cookie. You dip it in a hot drink like a hot chocolate, and then you suck the hot chocolate up

through the wafer layer. And then you eat that melty, fucked up cookie at the end of it. That sounds delicious. It's a Tim Tam Slam. It's real, real good. So that's going to do it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening to this episode

of Wonderful, and it's been a pleasure to have you. Thank you for coming. Thank you for much for listening to this episode of Wonderful, and it's been a pleasure to have you. Thank you for coming. Thank you for coming. And for listening. And for subscribing and liking. Yeah, sharing. On the iTunes. Buzz it on Google Buzz

if you're still on there. Tweet. Tweet it. Add it to your top eight on fucking... What was that one called? MySpace Griffin. Wow. I want to call it LinkedIn. Add me to your top eight on LinkedIn and endorse my skills.

And then when you click through my page, it plays Bring Me to Life by Evan Estes on my LinkedIn page. But it's a shitty MIDI version because I couldn't get their full song. It was taking too long to download and my dad yelled at me because he needed to make a phone call to his business partner, Gregory. Thank you to max fund for having us on the network and go to maximum fund dot org. Check out all the great shows.

Their shows like stop podcasting yourself and, uh, one bad mother and the beef and dairy network generation, greatest generation. Uh, so many great shows on maximum fund.org. And if you want to hear more stuff we do, it's at McElroy shows.com.

You want to thank Bowen and Augustus? I would like to thank them for the use of our theme, our intro song. It's our outro, too. And our outro song, Money Won't Pay. Can they find a link to that in the episode description? They can. Gravy. Hey, good luck on your book tour.

Oh, thanks. I don't even know what you're supposed to do. I don't know that I'll be dressed right for it. Do you have like a blazer with some patches on the elbows? I do. And I have a few ascots. I'm going to show them to you now. You let me know which one you want me to go with.

Okay. All right. Here's the first one. Blue. Yeah. And here's the other one. Pink. Yeah.

And here's the third one. Yellow. And fourth. Green striped. Yeah. And another one. Black. Uh-huh. And this one? Red pol third one. Yellow. And the fourth? Green striped. Yeah. And another one? Black. Uh-huh.

And this one? Red polka dot. Yeah. And this one? This one's got race cars all over it. Red balloons. Okay. Got a lot of ascots.

I got a few ascots. They were on sale. At the ascot store. This is nothing. Goodbye. Bye. Bye. Bye. at the Ascot store. This is nothing. Goodbye. MaximumFun.org

Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported. Hi, I'm Paula Poundstone. And I'm Adam Felber. Adam, I haven't gotten one thing done today. Well, let me see your to-do list. Ah, yeah, well, here. Make 30-second promo for Nobody Listens to Paula Poundstone,

so at least you're getting that done. Score! Except you haven't said what the show's about. We're like a comedy field guide to life, starring me and you. I give useful advice, and we have real experts to talk about things like Except you haven't said what the show is about. We're like a comedy field guide to life starring me and you. I give useful advice and we have real experts to talk about things like how to keep a friend or what to do when you encounter a bear. Bully for you, but you haven't said where people can find the show. Oh, MaximumFun.org or wherever you find your podcasts.