You're Dead to Me - The Asante Empire

Episode Date: February 19, 2021

Greg Jenner is joined by historian Dr Augustus Casely-Hayford OBE and comedian Sophie Duker to explore the incredible Asante Empire. We learn the roots of Ghanian heritage - from storytelling, fabric, food, music and rhythm as communication, to how centuries of traditions across the empire came together to protect the most sacred symbol of power in the Asante Kingdom from the hands of the British during the War of the Golden Stool. Produced by Cornelius Mendez Script by Greg Jenner and Emma Nagouse Research by Lloyd RobertsThe Athletic production for BBC Radio 4

This is the BBC. This podcast is supported by advertising outside the UK. BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello and welcome to You're Dead to Me from Radio 4, a history podcast for everyone. For people who don't like history, people who do like history and people who forgot to learn any at school. My name is Greg Jenner. I'm a public historian, author and broadcaster, and I'm the chief nerd on the BBC comedy show Horrible Histories. You may have also heard my other podcast, Homeschool History,

but that one's mostly for the kids. On this podcast, we do things a bit differently. We hook you up with proper history whilst being proper funny. And today we are nipping to the Bureau de Change and swapping out our pound sterling for West Ghanaian gold dust and travelling back 300 years to learn all about the Asante Kingdom. And to help me do that, I'm joined by two very special guests. In History Corner, he's an art historian, broadcaster

and the inaugural director of the new V&A East Museum, as well as the former director of the Smithsonian National Museum of African Art in Washington, D.C. You may have seen his fascinating BBC series, The Lost Kingdoms of Africa. And more importantly, you'll definitely remember him from the Mansa Musa episode of You're Dead to Me. It's Dr. Gus Casely-Hayford. Hi, Gus. Welcome back. Hi, Greg. So delighted to be back. And in Comedy Corner, she's a fab stand-up comedian and writer. Her show Venus was nominated

for the Best Newcomer at the Edinburgh Fringe in 2019. And you'll know her from all the telly, including Mock the Week, 8 Out of 10 Cats, Roast Battle and Frankie Boyle's New World Order. You may have heard her on the BBC podcast Obsessed With, I May Destroy You or her other show, Grown-Up Land. It's Sophie Duker. Hi, Sophie. How are you? Hello, it's me. You're currently in Ghana. You've really taken the research to a new level.

Yeah, I thought that's what we did. I thought it was a sort of magic school bus type thing. I'm in Ghana. I misunderstood the brief. It was a long commute, but now I'm here. I thought, why not get stuck in? Fair play. You are of Ghanaian heritage, as are you, Dr. Gus. So actually a bit more of a personal connection, I guess, for both of you. But Sophie, you studied English and French at university. We know you're brainy, but did you squeeze any history in there? Did you do any African history at school? I didn't do any African history at school when I was at school in the UK. But when I was about four years old, my parents told me I

was going on holiday and sort of left me in Ghana for two years. Like home alone. Like home alone. They were like, oh, we'll be back. They went out to get milk, but the milk was from the UK. So I went to school in Ghana for two years and did African history. But you were quite young at the time. Yeah, I was really small, but I was super brainy. So I skipped a year and I got to do year three early. Look at you, proper nerd. All right.

Well, that's fantastic. So we have a comedian in Ghana and a historian of Ghana in London. It's perfectly set up. So, what do you know? We start the show as ever with the So What Do You Know? This is where I have a guess at what listeners might know about today's subject. And let's be honest, unless you've seen Dr. Gus's fantastic series on the BBC, you probably know, well, zip, the Asante Kingdom, sometimes known as the Ashanti Kingdom, is not covered at all on the UK school curriculum. Certainly wasn't when I was growing up.

It doesn't really pop up very much in pop culture either. Hopefully you might recognise the name. You may have seen some Asante art in museums. And if you're a hardcore military buff, you might know that there were Anglo-Asante wars in the 1800s. But what else is there to know about the Asante art in museums. And if you're a hardcore military buff, you might know that there were Anglo-Asante wars in the 1800s. But what else is there to know about the Asante kingdom other than gold, colonial conflicts, and seriously fancy furniture? Well, actually, there's quite a lot to know. So let's get cracking. Dr. Gus, to start things off, when we talk about the Asante empire, where and when are we talking? Are we talking Ghanaana and are we going back 300 years or a little earlier than that a little early i mean the santi that they hail from the central area of ghana and it comes really into its ascendancy in the colonial period in the period in which this

area was known as the gold coast the ashanti this is a region which is in the centre of Ghana. If you imagine Ghana, it's like an upright piece of paper. To the south is the coastline, the Gulf of Guinea and beyond the Atlantic Ocean. To the west is Cote d'Ivoire. To the east is Togo and Nigeria. To the north is the Sahara. And right plumb in the middle is the Ashanti region. This is an area which that coastline, even today, it's marked by all of the sorts of

the interventions made by European nations during the colonial period, by the French, by the Dutch, by the Swedes, and particularly by the British. They've left huge slave castles, massive ports that were used to carry goods and, sadly, human beings off that coast. They come from that central region. It's a region which was traditionally deeply forested, very inhospitable, incredibly humid, a difficult environment in which to thrive. But from the 17th century onward, they turn it into an area that can be farmed. And also, there is the discovery that this area is really rich in gold. And they turn this into one of the most successful, the most thriving, the most inventive nations that this bit of West Africa has ever seen. And that is in part because it's an area

which values education and culture. So you say they begin in sort of the 17th century, so the 1600s, and the oral poetry, the stories told is that they emerge from out of the ground, like this people that come out of the forest floor. It's the land, isn't it? The land itself sort of gives birth to them almost. It's such a beautiful way of talking about your origins. And it reflects the importance of land and of stories. These aren't people who wrote down their histories traditionally, that they would be remembered by a particular figure whose role it was, was to remember the history on behalf of the family of the town. One of the ways in which they would do that would be

to route histories to particular places. Even the transatlantic slave trade, that one of the things which survives that are the stories of Anansi, that these are stories which traditionally come from this region. Sophie, does that feel familiar to you, that narrative culture? Yeah, I think it does absolutely. When I was little, one of the memories that I have my dad is that he always used to tell me loads of Anansi Nancy is like, he's the absolute boy who's like a spider trickster. These stories were kind of like way of understanding like culture and villages and elders and sort of like Br'er Rabbit or like folkloric stories, but also were a way that I felt really connected to Ghana when I was little and when I was growing up. So yeah, that storytelling aspect is definitely something that I resonate with.

So Sophie, the Asante are living in a very heavily forested area. They didn't have chainsaws and they didn't have electricity. So how would you go about chopping down those trees? Oh, is it people who are being remunerated for their labour? Sadly not, isn't it? It's unfortunately somewhat unethical practices. Gus, we have to say at this stage, we are talking here about an emergent kingdom that is using slave labour, isn't it? It's prisoners of war, perhaps? Yeah, unfree labour. Is that the same

as slavery? It's not quite the same as slavery. I mean, people, of course, weren't completely free, but they could marry, they could own land. And over generations, these people did gain their freedom and become integrated into the wider population. The thing about Ghana is the first time I went as a teenager, getting off the plane, the thing that hit me was just the heat and the humidity. And the huge challenge in supporting a big community was how do you actually create arable possibilities when there is this deeply thick, inhospitable forest? And so one of the ways in which the Asante went around that was unfree labour to turn this landscape into arable land. So we have to honk our slavery klaxon earlier than anticipated. I was expecting to honk it later when the British turned up. But we also therefore get the rise of very wealthy people, individuals, and they're called Berimpong, the big men. The gold you've

already mentioned, there's now land to be farmed. So we're starting to see the emergence of a hierarchy. And this then gets us into the beginnings of a tribal kingdom structure. But there's also stool culture that I wanted to come on to because we know in terms of Ghanaian heritage, the stools are so important. Why is a stool so important, Gus? It's so much more than a piece of furniture. It's more than even a throne. The idea was history and land and power, that they were connected. And one of the ways in which you would share those things was through powerful people sitting down at the centre of communities and talking about history, talking about family. And of course, the thing that they would be

sitting on that would be routing them to that critical thing land would be these beautifully carved stools. And they are curved in shape, wrap around your bottom, and beneath there would be four sturdy legs, and at the centre, a space within which you could place material that would link you through magic to history, to the spirits. And all kinds of people could have stools commissioned that would be linked to particular milestones within their life. A child might be gifted a stool when they're born.

Young women might be presented one by their husband when they get married. Some would be given a stool just before they're actually buried and that they become a durable material marker of the stages of life and they are beautiful things. I got given, not an actual stool, I got given like little stool earrings when I was a baby, like a little. But I also, when I was at school in Ghana, I learned about the golden stool.

I don't know if it's too early a juncture to bring this up. And my memories of history as a five-year-old are quite hazy. But I was basically like, this stool is essentially a horcrux. It's like it's a magic stool. And this thing that really struck me, the Golden Stool in particular, felt like a really significantly magical item. And what struck me about the way that I was taught history, or at least the history of the Golden Stool when I was in Ghana, and the history that I learned when I came to the UK, it was a sort of acceptance. Everyone's like, yeah, it's magic. Like people probably think the Queen is a bit magic, but it was a sort of like, concurrence of the two things. And it wasn't necessary to call into question the sort of spiritual significance of the stool while telling the story of how it became so significant in

Ghanaian history. It could bind groups together in periods when things were tough that it gave people a sense of strength and a sense of purpose you could understand why it would be loved and venerated so much. And you've mentioned the golden stool there, Sophie, and I suppose we should probably actually bring up the man who's gifted it. So the first king, really, of the Asante empire, of the Shanti power, is called Osetutu. And he was the Asantehene, I think is the phrase. Is that right, Gus? Asantehini, yes. Asanteahini thank you. I mean he's a really interesting figure because a bit like Mansa Musa who we talked about in a previous episode he is a little bit enigmatic but he managed to turn the Ashanti into a power in the region by defeating

their rivals the Denkira by getting hold of guns from the Europeans but he then creates this kingdom using the stool as a symbol. And do you want to tell us the story of how it was supposedly brought down from the heavens? He is a fascinating, slightly enigmatic figure, Osai Tutu. And he has, as a lieutenant, this man called Akonfo Anoche. And Akonfo Anoche, Akonfo is like a priest. Anoche. And Aconfo Anoche, Aconfo is like a priest. Anoche was his name. And he is a really interesting figure, slightly Peter Mandelson-y to Tony Blair, you know, a sort of guru who, around the Asantahini, wove this incredible set of cultural traditions

that would weave together a set of communities that had very little in common other than trying to survive in this hostile environment. And then he would craft symbols that would then be used at different events that would bind these communities together. And it really works against all odds in this incredibly aggressive environment. really works against all odds in this incredibly aggressive environment. They go on the rampage and they build this huge empire that is utterly dominant across the central region of Ghana and into Ivory Coast at its peak, with many hundreds of thousands of subsidiary towns and villages that pay tribute in gold to the Asantahini. And it creates a very stable and very wealthy monarchy. Sophie, have you heard stories of King Osetutu? Is he well known to you? I'm not gonna lie to you. He's not particularly well known. I feel like the real

celebrity in like the history that I learned was the stool, which is not a sentiment I've had. I mean, like it's meant to come down from the from the sky you know a moment um so and this is damning because obviously British stools don't measure up to this I walk around DFS and I feel nothing but um I don't know too much about OG Osei Tutu I understand and was always told the Ashanti empire was very powerful that I should be very proud to be part of the Ashanti Empire. Though at the time, I kind of more attached it to the noughties R&B singer Ashanti than to my actual heritage. The stool is so special that it cannot be touched. So it's not a throne. You cannot sit on it, certainly no buttocks, but not even fingertips. It has its own stool, which I love. It has its

own canopy umbrella to keep the sun away. It might its own stool, which I love. It has its own canopy umbrella to keep the sun away. It might rest upon an animal skin, like an elephant skin, for example. It's treated almost like a king. And it is this sacred symbol. What everyone invested in was the idea of the continuity and the authority of the stool itself. So the stool is a bit like the separation between the office of president and the actual president. I mean, we're recording this on the day that Donald Trump has finally left office. I mean, a stool could probably have done a much better job. I mean, he's a different type of stool. So the stool itself becomes this hugely important symbol. Osse Tutu is the founding king,

the first Asantahini. He will, of course, die. He is mortal and he will be replaced by others. But the stool will stand as this eternal symbol. The economy now is strong. It's thriving. They have guns. They have warriors. They are also slave traders. They are selling enslaved people to the colonial European powers, of course, which is how, unfortunately, people are ending up in the transatlantic slave trade. It's a place where the economy is based on gold, but also on farming. Are there other things going on as well, Gus, in terms of how people make money, how people get rich? Yes, you could be wealthy. I mean, there's Santohini, of course, that is hugely wealthy, but around him are a court of very powerful and wealthy men and a huge middle class,

many of whom were very well educated and travelled. But people who are trading both with the Europeans on the coast, but also across into North Africa and across the desert, the Asante state becomes very cosmopolitan and very wealthy and, you know, deeply culturally complex as well, that this is a place that people would visit from across different regions of Africa. And we see that in some of the early written records of Europeans who visit and they see that there are North Africans at the court of the Asante who were teaching the Asantehine's children Arabic. And, you know, these are deeply sophisticated and cosmopolitan peoples who, over the course of many generations, attempt to inculcate into their children the sense that with each generation, they want the state to grow and to prosper. And that puts pressure on everyone to constantly be expanding, to be finding ways of

building alliances and to be conquering neighbours. As we know, with all states, the bigger they grow, the more complex and the greater strains that fall upon the administration. And it's not just the golden stool, of course. Rich individuals would also have their own stools, beautifully carved, not gold, that was reserved for the golden stool. The stool represented an individual spirit and power and their identity. But also upon a senior royal or aristocrat's death, the stool would be dyed black. It would be painted with a mixture of egg yolks and soot and spider webs and sheep blood and maybe nail clippings from the individual and their hair. And then it would be stored in a special sacred stool house.

This amazing idea that the stool reflects who you are in your life. Sophie, if we were to try and capture your spirit and soul in an object of furniture, would you go with a stool or would you go with something a bit more a bit more comfortable lazy boy something I feel like it wouldn't be a stool because I feel like my stool would be quite comically small I'm quite a small woman so I feel like it would look like a footstool if there was going to be an object of furniture that captured my essence I think maybe it would be like a chaise longue oh nice, I feel like something where you can like sort of prop yourself up at any angle, but you're always fundamentally relaxed. And looking very classy as well.

Looking very classy. And I cover it with a bit of, actually, this is something that I don't think you're allowed to do, but kente cloth from Ghana, I'd cover it with that because there are some fantastic, just beautiful fabrics from Ghana. So I would do that, even though they are meant to be ceremonial and not used for lounging. Actually, let's talk about kente cloth. Again, it's sort of that symbolism, Gus, of how do you reflect these people brought together by a great king in design? This is another way in which they thought really carefully about how do we bind these different peoples together? One of the ways in which powerful people articulate and demonstrate their power

in Ghana is through their appearance, through their clothes, through their cloth. Kente was created out of necessity. Many of the local people, they would get pieces of cloth that would be brought by Europeans or come across the desert from North Africa. These pieces of cloth that would be, some of them bright, beautiful kind of colours, that they would then unravel these pieces of cloth and use the thread again on small looms, because you could only unravel certain amounts without the thread breaking, and build up these incredible patterns, strips of very bright, intense woven textile that they would then stitch together. And they would create these textiles that seem to almost kind of live so vibrant in the colours. They are used, if you ever get to Ghana and you visit one of the big summer festivals, particularly in Kumasi,

and you visit one of the big summer festivals, particularly in Kumasi, and you will see the powerful, the big men, the Barenpong, and they are wearing these amazing kente that are gold and blue and green and red. And they just sing. And Sophie, your show's long. What patterns would you go for? What colours? Oh my God.

So I recently went to my cousin's wedding. She had a traditional wedding in ghana i don't know how to explain gus said that the colors sing but it's just like it's some of the colors can be more muted there's obviously like different shades but like some of them are just like blinging like the important men like the chiefs what they're wearing is like incredibly extra like it's incredibly vibrant incredibly cool like my entire family my cousin's friend was like making kente cloths for all the family so we had to send our uh measurements originally i was going to wear a jumpsuit because i think they think i'm a bit

alternative but then they were like i don't think we can make kente into a jumpsuit so you'll have to wear a dress and i was like okay cool on the day of the wedding my mom broke the zip of my kente cloth which was a drama that lasted about two hours. It was really bad. I considered never speaking to her again. But we fixed it. I got sewn into the dress and I couldn't go to the toilet for nine hours. Okay.

And Gus, another thing that unites the kingdom would have been a form of music. Sophie, let's say we gave you your own kingdom or your own dukedom, or your own dukedom, your own jukedom I suppose you are you are a juker um how might you use music to do long distance communication in a pre-electricity age I've got to get out those drums got to get bang on those drums I know that I was trying to think of an answer that wasn't that sort of singing in like a natural waterfall shower which would be horrendous I'm sure it'd be lovely. Your people would respect your singing voice. I think I'd be found at the bottom of the pool, deceased. But yeah, drums.

And drums is right, Gus. In your notes, you said this extraordinary thing that language could be transposed into rhythm. And so you could send messages with drums, which I suppose we're used to with Morse code. But this was a genuine thing in the 18th and 19th century in Santa Gana, to send messages, to bring people together with music, with rhythm. Can you tell us a bit more? The languages, I can languages that they are tonal, so you can transpose those languages pretty successfully into passages of drumming. And so you could do amazing things with music. Imagine huge families of

important drums playing messages that tell you something about the history. So you would gather people together, you'd be surrounded by your family, which is about rooting you in the past, but doing it in this incredibly elegant way that was utterly kind of intoxicating, that you visit one of these big festivals and you will see the drumming and the dancing and you can appreciate it just as glorious music, but it just has these multiple layers that you can just keep unpicking of metaphor and history, of trying to uphold ancient tradition and law. The recognition that these are traditions that managed somehow to survive the slave trade, colonialism, and, you know, they are the sorts of rhythms which connect us all as humanity because they underpin most

contemporary music. Absolutely right, isn't it? I mean, I guess those rhythms go into jazz, they go into the kind of New Orleans sound, they into hip-hop and Beyonce but it's so interesting that it was so important to communication to identity as well in in the 18th 19th century in West Africa so we've talked about drumming we talked about I guess jam sessions let's talk about yam sessions. That's the best segue I've ever heard. It had to be done didn't it it? I mean, come on. But we know at least as far back as 1816, where we have a British traveller who goes out there called Thomas Bowditch. He reports this really interesting yam festival, a harvest festival, I suppose.

Sophie, I've heard you on other podcasts talking about yams and cooking and so on. And it's a part of your culture and your cuisine. Is that right? Yes. Although it's quite confusing because if you ask for yams from north american they like give you sweet potatoes which is not what ghana people would consider yams so that's led to some confusion a yam is like it's like a tuber it's got a very hard shell i don't know if it's the same as cassava i think it's different i think there's like lots of specific type of yams. Yam fries are a big thing you'll find in Ghana. I live in a part of East London where I'm very close to a market called Ridley Road Market where I like being near the market because I feel like theoretically one day I could buy and prepare a

yam if I needed to. Theoretically. I've lived in Dalston for six years and I have never bought a yam. All right but it's good to be yam adjacent, just in case. I'm yam adjacent. They are worth the effort. I mean, they're delicious and they're very heavy. But, you know, it's the sort of food that you would eat once and that, you know, it's going to kind of power you for the rest of the day. I mean, they're hearty.

I had boiled yam as a kid quite a lot. You get a little hockey puck of yam. It's been like sliced up and it's sort of meant to ground itself itself in your stomach so it's sort of potatoes equivalent it's sort of available it's nutritious it powers you yeah it's like a potato that's done crossfit i do wonder what thomas bowditch this 19th century traveler what he would have made of the yam festival because these are huge events their santahini would be there with all of his court and people would dance and they would drum and they'd be wearing their fine kentes and they would invite guests from right around the region. So Thomas Bowditch, he witnesses all of this and he writes

this amazing book about his experiences at the Asante court. He sees state executions as well, doesn't he? He's seeing this glamour, this glory, this joy, but he's also seeing the state going through the process of executing criminals, which I think, is it fair to say, is also a kind of cleansing ritual? It is in part that, but it's also that this is a growing state that is really an alliance of a number of substates with their own chiefs who are in control of them, who all pay tribute to the Santahini. To keep control of that, you had to, of course, lead by example, by being generous, but you also had to demonstrate that the state wasn't to be messed with. And so at these festivals in which

they would gather all of the powerful, they would also deliver some of these appalling passages in which they would execute slaves, they would execute prisoners. It was a real statement about the unquestioned power of the Asante Heaney and his state and his court. And the power of the courts also rested on wealth, particularly on gold. Sophie, we just wanted to show you some images of the collection that Dr Gus is the director of at the V&A East. Let's begin with these pectoral discs, which would have been worn by the high-ranking members

of the Asante court on their chests. Oh, my God. Because the reason I'm reacting is that i can see these like flat round discs but they really remind me of nipple tassels they're honestly lit i can imagine some shanty burlesque that would be popping with these discs i don't know if that's where they go i don't know if they're for the mammaries are they for men to wear are they non-gender specific they're non-gender specific and if you get to visit in a period when there are any ceremonies and particularly if you get to see the santahini and the amount of gold jewelry that he wears dozens of rings this

particularly buttery colored gold looks exquisite in the sun. Because gold is so precious, it's then to think, how do you weigh it? How do you account for it? So the tradition of gold weights around it is almost equally ornate and complex. These tiny gold weights that would be put on the other side of a scale against an amount usually of gold dust, they would speak to all kinds of different Akan traditions they could be myths they might be little sayings then we have a collection of these gold weights in the V&A and they are some of our most treasured objects they all look brilliant there's one that's a sort of it looks like a sort of bad armadillo with incredibly long horns there's one that I'm avoiding looking directly at, which is quite phallic.

But this looks like a sort of maybe like an antelope. And it's a very cute sausage dog bodied antelope with really, really long horns. And some of these gold weights are associated with a certain proverb. And Sophie, do you want to read out what the proverb is? If I'd known my horns were to grow so long, I might not have started. That's how I feel about everything. So in the late 18th century, we have an Asantehini called Osai Kwadwo, I think is his name. Sophie, am I getting that right?

It's actually the same as my recent nephew's name, which is Kodjo, but it's spelt K-W-A-D-W-O sometimes because of schadenfreude. Kodjo can be spelt many different ways. Kwadwo is one of the more tricky ways that it is sometimes spelt. Well, I apologise for my bungling, but thank you for the clarification. And he's an important king, but he also, he's a generous king. This is about that balance. It works as a kind of confederation, the state, in which there are a number of sub-states within it, and that they would pay their taxes, supply troops if the Asante was under threat, they would protect the state, help to clear the roads and that sort of thing, and to make sure that all of

the machinery of a successful state would function, and they would respect the Asantehini. state would function, and they would respect the Asantahini. And so when things were going well, the Asantahini, of course, he'd continue to tax people, but he would occasionally, he would give the tax money back. And very, very occasionally, Osai Kwadro, he would actually give more back than he actually taxed people. It was about the loving arm of the state, that it could be merciless and it could be cruel, but when it was politically astute, when it made sense, it could reach out and it could embrace you. I love the idea of a tax rebate, Sophie. Yeah, I know.

I was like, did he do it because things like times were particularly hard and people needed a morale boost? Like he was a sort of benevolent Rishi Sunak figure, or was it just a like, surprise? It may have been a bit Rishi-like, but I think it was also the fact that, well, they had to keep everyone on board, really. What's so interesting is that the Asantehini is trying to keep together a coalition of tribes, of peoples, of those who share the Akan language, perhaps,

but they're not always necessarily friends. And there is then beef that kicks off in the early 19th century. And we are now getting into the part of the show where I have to honk my colonialism klaxon. It's a slightly different klaxon to the slavery one, but just as loud. And this is where we get the arguments about land control between the Fante and the Ashanti. And the European powers get involved. So the Dutch side with the Ashanti and the British side with the Fante and the Ashanti, and the European powers get involved. So the Dutch side with the Ashanti and the British side with the Fante, and it leads to a war. The first of five Anglo-Ashanti wars. The first one is 1823, and the second 1863. These are wars where the

Ashanti sort of win, really, which is perhaps quite surprising. Well, the Asante, they've been astute. They recognise that the British had the power of new technologies, new weaponry. And so they open up trade routes, which means that they can acquire some of these sorts of things. And they actually arm a pretty powerful army. So when the Brits stand against them, they push back. And in 182323 and then in 1863, they defeat the Brits. And it's embarrassing, I think, for Britain, you know, that it's not something that they want well known because across the region, there is the beginnings of Europe thinking about how are we going to parcel up territory within Africa, because the resources are so extraordinary. And we've got to now try to think about, particularly the Asante, how do we actually

bring them under our control? If we get control of those gold mines, if we get control of those people, that it will absolutely change the political dynamic of the region. And so that brings us to the third Anglo-Asante war, because everyone loves a sequel. This time, Britain is like, hey, look, no, we've thought this through, we're going to come back. The main thing that they have overcome this time is the malaria. Malaria had always been a huge problem for British and European travellers and troops. But malaria has been neutralised, not defeated, but neutralised by the extraction of quinine by two French scientists in the early 1820s, Pierre-Joseph Otierier and Joseph Bien-Him Cavanetou. By the 1840s, quinine is now available to treat malaria, and that has a

big influence. And also, we get this new technology coming in. Third time around, if first you don't succeed, try, try a gun, because the Brits now have machine guns. The machine gun has been invented. 1873, they turn up and go, we've got machine guns, which I think is a line from Die Hard. What's surprising about this one is it's still really close. The Third War, the Anglo-Santé War Mark III, revenge of the Brits, is still really, really tight. Sophie, have you ever heard about these wars? Maybe not specifically the individual wars, but there's a sense that we've sort of been harangued by the British. I find it quite interesting that you say that the British sided with the Fante and the Dutch sided with the Ashanti because my late grandfather was Fante,

my late grandmother was Ashanti. Can I make it any more obvious? So it's nice to see those two tribes coming together. In the third war, the British put into the field a very brilliant soldier. And this is how they managed to just about win the war. The soldier is called Sir Garnet Walsley. And he's a very clever tactician who studies the Ashanti. He respects them and he understands their tactics and he manages to just about outwit them. And he then is pretty violent when he arrives into the capital, isn't he, Gus? He doesn't take, well, he takes prisoners, but he then sets fire to things. He's everything that you could imagine with a name like Sir

Garnet Wolsey, you know, that sort of moustache that you would imagine him twizzling. He is merciless. He gives the Asante a period in which they could potentially give up, but they don't because this is a hugely complex state. They go in and they do what you could imagine. And they don't just kill huge numbers of people, but they burn down the central palace. It's not just a victory, it's humiliation as well. Sir Garnet Wolsey, he's created a machine that's then deployed in many other parts of Africa. This tactic of going in, setting up a set of conditions that cannot almost be met, and then basically being utterly merciless. And it makes him a celebrity back home. He is this great colonial hero back in Blighty. But of course, in West Africa, he has killed a lot of people and he has deployed the sort of full strength of the newly reformed British army. That's the other thing we should probably say as well, is that the British army has been reformed after the Crimean War and so on.

And so the British Secretary of State for War was like, come on, let's have a war. You know, we've invested in our troops. We've invested in our technology. Let's go have a proper war. And so there was no real sense here that the Ashanti were going to be allowed to get away with it, really. The British were going to come back and keep coming back until they won. And they do eventually win in the third war. And what this sets up is what's called the British Gold Coast Colony, which is the first formal territory owned and run by the British Empire in West Africa, isn't it, Gus? Absolutely, yes. And it's a foothold upon which the British can then begin to really formulate what their ambitions will be. And they will go on to control the greater part of Africa and,

you know, from it draw huge amounts of resource in gold and bauxite and cobalt and all kinds of materials that would strengthen the British Empire, transform Britain, but also subjugate generations. And it changed the destiny of the people. And it's taken, I think, almost until the 21st century for a really sustained level of recovery in that region. So he does win Sir Garnet Walsley, but there are a couple of moments where he is humiliated and embarrassed. And so let's enjoy those because, you know, we need a little bit of a chuckle. He tries at one point to impress Ashanti with a brand new traction engine and it immediately breaks down. He's like Elon Musk. Iton musk throwing that metal ball at the car which

smashed immediately it didn't go up the hill it then broke down and then the boiler exploded so so that's that literally blew up in his face and he also i mean we've mentioned the gatling guns when he tried to demonstrate them to show off the british imperial power they broke and apparently he later on reported that the local ashanti people were somewhat impressed by them which is i mean it's quite cringe really isn't it it's it's very cringe i've operated a gatling gun sure a role-playing game called desperado that i had on my pc one of the playable characters you could use has had a speciality his name is doc could use a gatling gun i don't know if i should start that anecdote by saying that I myself have innate understanding of it, but it's quite wieldy. It's not very sophisticated. It does

just destroy things. I mean, that was our attempt to have a little bit of levity, but unfortunately, it is where things get quite sad. And Gus, this is where we then get a civil war in the Shanti Empire, really, because the humiliation, the conquest, the burning of the palace has damaged the authority of the Asantehini, hasn't it? It has, yes. And this is the point where it's fantastic that there is a divide between the Asantehini, Prempeh, and the state and the stool, because the vulnerability, the bad strategic decisions that people had identified him with, they were things that could be criticised. But it also meant that they could now continue to invest in the stool itself.

This is the fourth Anglo-Asante war, Sophie. So Perempe I, he wins the civil war and then the Brits are like, sorry, no, we're not having that. And they come in and invade again for the fourth time. And they exile him. Do you know where they exile him to, Sophie? I feel like there's a pun. Like if they could exile him with a pun, they'll be like, oh, God, this is so bad.

I can't believe I'm going to say it into a microphone. But they'll be like, you have to go. So like they'd exile him to like Togo. That's good. Anyone? That is good. Or Cote d'Ivoire could be like coventry i don't know i'm assuming a neighbor send him to coventry yeah nice yeah they sent him to the seychelles which i don't know

about you but sounds quite nice yeah i mean so he and his family are booted out the country so he's won the civil war he stood up to the british he's trying to negotiate with them he's trying to sort of make a compromise and the brits are like no no no no we're the power here so they boot him out the country and the war here is a famous war also because it involves Robert Baden-Powell who will later on go on to found the Scouts movement so he's there to get his colonialism badge but now it's time to get to our favourite and final of the five Anglo-Asante wars the War of the Golden Stool, also known as the War of Yar Ascenti War. Sophie. Yar, yes.

I feel like she puts the Yar in Yar's Queen. I'm so glad. The most recent history is the one I know, but pretty cool queen. Boudica, eat your heart out. I think the reason I remember her is because she was, one, a girl, and also because I have the same,

I should have the same day name as her. So Yaa is a day name. If you're born on a Thursday, you would be called Yaa, but my mum thought that was a, the Outcast song hadn't come out yet. So she was like, that's not a good name and called me Abba,

which is an alternative day name. That is very cool. And that reminds me, actually, the Golden Stall is also called the Golden Stall Born on a Friday, is its official name. Again, which reminds us it's almost treated like a divine human. So, Gus, why is this war known as the War of the Golden Stall? How does that become the central focus? At this time, the colonial secretary of the Gold Coast was a chap called Frederick Hodson. He's

also another kind of figure who comes out of a cartoon. He feels that subjugating the Asante in so many different ways and attempting to humiliate them wasn't enough if they were still rallying around this stool. So Frederick Hodgson is rumoured to want to put his buttocks on the stool and even to give it to Queen Victoria. And this obviously enrages people. It is, of course, just gossip,

but this is hugely insulting, isn't it, to the Ashanti people? And they rise up in rebellion. Yeah, absolutely. And this is where all of the different component parts that have been put in place over centuries, they actually come into play. The infrastructure built to make communication possible between the

different bits of the Asante empire, the symbols and the drumming and all of these things are then deployed as a cultural force against the British. And core to this, at the very centre of it, this thing that they all rally around and want to protect in the face of everything else, rally around and want to protect in the face of everything else was the golden stool. So Prempeh had been exiled. That means that the new figurehead who is going to lead this resistance movement is Yara Sentewa, who, how would we call her, a queen mother? Well, I mean, she's not the mother of the Asantehini, but she's the grandmother of a very powerful chief. And she is enormously charismatic, incredibly eloquent, and she becomes the commander-in-chief of the army, of the Asante army, almost through her force of personality.

She mounts enough of an opposition to thwart the British attempts to gain enough control to take the stool. And it's seen as being symbolic, even though Asante is eventually annexed as a crown colony and she's also exiled to the Seychelles. Even despite that, it's seen as a symbol of great defiance, the sense that this stool was never, ever relinquished. It remains a symbol of the independence of the kingdom. That's right. And it was hidden from the British and they spent all sorts of efforts trying to track it down and digging it up and they never found it. And Yara Sentiwa lived out in exile in the Seychelles until her death in her 80s. She died in 1921.

Sophie, if you were to make a drama about Yara Sentewa, who would you have playing the role? I think she's quite hard to play because she's like a cross between like Xena, Warrior Princess and AOC. I think Yara Sentewa, like many women in Ghana, has many shades, lots of light and dark. I think maybe I would cast Michaela Cowell, maybe get a little bit of Gina Yashere

because I don't think like the action really started until she was older. And I don't think Michaela's old enough to play her. Probably neither is Gina. Ooh, might get a little bit of Tania Miller in there who has played many things but I will always remember

as the Dean in Sex Education. So as a triptych of women at different stages in her life, Michaela, Gina and Tania Miller, I think. All right. Benedict Cumberbatch. Is it for Frederick uh oh you know

the colonial can you see him sort of in the star sort of twirling definitely I can really see that a little upper lip twist a sinister posho but absolutely perfect but as you say Gus the Asante empire was now defeated and formally annexed and was now part of the British Empire in total, until we get to the foundation of modern Ghana. And Sophie, presumably, you know this story a little bit? Oh, yes, I do. I do. Being from Ghana, and having visited Ghana, I have had to go on many, many tours of the Kwame Nkrumah Museum. So I do know a little bit about the formation of modern Ghana. But I won't tell you because that would ruin the fun. So in 1957, Ghana became the first African nation to gain its

independence from a European colonial power, which tells us quite a lot about the sophistication and the economy, that it was able to kind of go it alone quite early on, wasn't it? Absolutely. I mean, all of those traditions that we've talked about that were about embedding education and learning and history and law, they empower a generation who are really motivated by the idea that, okay, the British control this land, but then let's use law to try to push back against them through the Legislative Council. And there are a generation of really eloquent, really brilliant politicians who train in Britain, who come from the sorts of families that a generation before would have actually been sitting on stools and ruling in a traditional context. They are now fighting against the British in the courts for independence.

And then in 1957, the British accept. And there's this amazing image of Kwame Nkrumah standing on a platform surrounded by his first cabinet, and they choose to wear kente, you know, that they aren't dressed in suits. It's a way of all of this sort of history that we've talked about them embedding all of that in their statement about the future of their nation. And, you know, Nkrumah stands there and he says, we don't look toward the West, And, you know, and Crume stands there and he says, we don't look toward the West. We don't look toward Russia and the East. We are looking toward our future and our destiny. And it's a moment which defines for other African nations, a sense of how you could craft something that was confidently African, that was about the future and make a complete decoupling statement from Europe that empowers a generation. And, you know, it's unfortunate that it doesn't immediately lead to everything that they would desire. But the seeds of that you can still see in Ghana, in one of the most stable, the most successful countries in West Africa.

And of course, a new name for the nation. Why Ghana? Ghana is an ancient African kingdom. It wasn't located where present day Ghana is. It was about Kwame Nkrumah investing in that history. He wanted to make a statement with the country's name and also with its flag. It's a statement about pride in Africa. Yeah. And the Ghanaian flag, of course, is red, gold and green, which symbolises the bloodshed of resistance, the wealth of the gold and the greenery of the forests, you know, that lush, amazing landscape. The flag of the Ashanti, they still exist, of course, their flag has the golden stool on it. So, you know, their heritage still carries on to this day. You know, it's still important. The nuance window!

That brings us to the nuance window. This is where we allow our expert, Dr. Gus, to give us a two minute mini lecture on what we need to know. Dr. Gus, the nuance window. Thank you. I think it's such a crime that African art is so seldom celebrated, that African art is so little taught, so rarely given worthy platforms. And I don't just mean here in Britain. Africa boasts a handful of the very best museums in the world. If you get the chance, visit ZEITS, MOCA or the Norval Foundation in South Africa, and probably like me, you'll be in awe. But these truly world-class museums, they sit within a wider landscape that remains stubbornly patchy. I think that's a bit of a crime. This is the longest, most thrilling art history, and it's been ill-served, and it's been neglected. And this is a heritage that cannot be meaningfully enjoyed by

the descendants of the people who created it. And even if you look at a country like Nigeria, Africa's wealthiest nation, a country with astounding history of visual arts production, yet its museum sector is generally deeply under-resourced and under-sponsored. We've got to change that. In Nigeria, one of the good news stories is that in Edo State, they're beginning to consider how they might build a museum that will be the home for the return of the Benin bronzes, an initiative that's happening alongside substantive conversations with museums across Europe and America where the bronzes are presently held. But these projects, they remain

exceptional. There's a huge continental deficit. Of course, African museums and governments have to address it. But alongside it, we have to, in the West, change the way in which we think about Africa. It's partially our deficit and our museums, which hold huge, huge collections of African material that need to change. It's time to look back at some of that colonial period with a degree of shame, but also with an opportunity for us to learn and to reshape a kind of more equitable future for our young. Amazing. Thank you so much. So what do you know now? Amazing. Thank you so much. So what do you know now?

OK, so it's time now for the So What Do You Know Now? It's a 60 second quickfire quiz to see how much Sophie has learned from our expert historian, Dr. Gus. Sophie, are you good with exams? I mean, historically, I've done and done well in exams. But the level of anxiety that is coursing through my blood right now is unprecedented. Let's crack on. We've got 10 questions. We've got 60 seconds on the clock. Here we go. Question one. According to the Asante oral histories, how did the seven major kingdoms come to power? Oh, my God. Oh, OK. I do know this. They came from the ground. They did.

They came from the earth. They came from the holes in the forest floor. Question two. In Asante culture, power, status and longevity were symbolised in what carved item of furniture? A stool. It was a stool. Question three. When the Asante kingdom was officially formed in 1701, who was crowned as the first king of Asantehini?

It was my man, Osei Tutu. It was. No. Yes! Yes, it was. Of course it was. Question four. What was the main currency in the Asante Kingdom?

The main currency in the Asante Kingdom was good chat and gold. It was. Yes, both of those. Gold dust in particular. Question five. What is kente? Oh, kente is a type of cloth which is made by weaving small bits of like broken down fabric

on like a small weaving on a small loom. It's loom-based fabric. Loom-based fabric is true. I don't know which details to include. It's cloth. It's good.

It's good. I love it. Question six. In the 1820s, French chemists isolated quinine from a type of bark as a treatment

for which disease? Malaria. Yes, that's correct. Okay, question seven. What vegetable would you have found at an Asante harvest festival? A yam, baby. Oh, yeah. Question eight.

You're doing really well so far. Question eight. Why did the British General Garnet Walsley look a bit silly when he tried to show off his steam sapper to an Asante man? Okay, I was going to say because he had like a moustache that he was twirling, but I think that might have been colour that you were adding it didn't work it did not work question nine yara sante ward is an icon celebrated as a key figure in resisting british colonialism in the fifth anglo-santé war where was she exiled to she was exiled to the seychelles like every every other

person in god like i'm gonna be disobedient in ghana so i can get exiled to seychelles this for a perfect score. This for 10 out of 10. In what year did Ghana win its independence? Oh, my God. Okay. It's 19. Oh, my God.

You've got to. Oh, my God. 1961. Come on. Oh, my God. Is that right? Come on. Oh, my God.

No, 1960. No. Is it on the bloody... Oh, it's 1958. Close. Oh, my God. 1957 the bloody... Oh, it's 1958? Close. Oh my god! 1957! Yes!

Yes, it's 1957. It's on the, like, freedom and justice for all. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god, it's, like, on... It's on the, like, the monument that's in the middle of a... It's in the roundabout. Oh my god, it's like on it's on the like, the monument the Succavilla Baccarat, it's like it's in the roundabout, oh my god Sophie Duker, you scored

10 out of 10 Wow! Okay, thank you, I mean I feel like that's 9.5, but I mean I have disgraced my family, but maybe I'll do the X on some say shows No, no, no, you did brilliantly. I hope you've both had a lot of fun talking about their Sante Kingdom today and and listeners if you fancy learning more about

the history of west africa why not check out of course the mansa musa episode with dr gus and athena kablenu if you want some more colonialism in your history books you can also check out the mayflower episode and remember if you've had a laugh and learned some stuff please do share this podcast with your friends or leave a review online and make sure to subscribe to you're dead to me on bbc sounds so you never miss an episode a huge thank you again to our magnificent guests in history corner or rather art history corner we've had the magnificent dr gus casely hayford from the vna east museum thank you gus thank you so much loved it loved it loved it and in comedy, we've had the superb Sophie Duker. Thank you, Sophie. That was brilliant. I loved it.

Medasi, which means thank you. And to you, lovely listener, join me next time as we sashay down a new historical side street with a different delightful duo. But for now, I'm off to go and crowdfund a Yara Santewar movie. Bye! Your Dead to Me was a production by The Athletic for BBC Radio 4. The research was by Lloyd Roberts, the script was by Emma Neguse and me,

the project manager was Isla Matthews and the edit producer was Cornelius Mendes. Hello, me again. Yes, it's Greg. Just wanted to let you know that we're not done with history over here and if you want a bit more of a history nibble, then I have some good news for you. Now that we are stuck at home again, we are bringing back homeschool history. If you missed out the first time, it's our fun, family friendly and informative show about, well, you can probably guess. Yeah, history. And yes, we're bringing back the obligatory sound effects, of course. This time out, get ready to learn about the Great Fire of London, ancient Egyptian religion, the Scottish Wars of Independence,

Mary Seacole and one of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles that you'll have to tune in to find out which one. So that's Homeschool History with me, Greg Jenner, on BBC Sounds.